"On Friday, Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost sent letters to two facilities that provide abortion.... 'You and your facility are ordered to immediately stop performing non-essential and elective surgical abortions. Non-essential surgical abortions are those that can be delayed without undue risk to the current or future health of a patient... If you or your facility do not immediately stop performing non-essential or elective surgical abortions in compliance with the [health director's] order, the Department of Health will take all appropriate measures.'..."
CBS News reports.
ADDED: If the idea is to conserve medical resources, think of the health care needs of the pregnant woman. Imagine going through pregnancy and childbirth in a time of scarcity — perhaps extreme scarcity.
What if, 9 months from now, women are left to give birth on their own — home births for everybody, without a doctor or even a doula? It will be a time of people dying alone from coronavirus, suffering and pleading visibly on Twitter, and begging for help that will never come.
"And woe unto them that are with child..." said Jesus Christ, speaking of end times, though certainly not recommending abortion.
Now, if the idea is something other than to conserve medical resources, then that is exactly what is unconstitutional under the current case law. That's a reason not to speak openly about that other motivation, if that's what is going on in Ohio.
I have not read the comments on this post yet, though I see there are 44 right now. If some of you are already talking about how it is good to save the unborn and you think this is what Yost is doing, then you are making the argument that his action is unconstitutional.
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१९२ टिप्पण्या:
Baby boom in nine months.
OMG! Now women won't be able to reflect on the morality of their actions!
Non-essential surgical abortions are those that can be delayed without undue risk to the current or future health of a patient.
That's all of them. Every single one.
Now we are in a real crisis.
Attorneys General know more than anyone else what should be done.
Is there a way to manage a public health crisis that include cars honking, trains going past, buses grinding gears, people shouting in the streets?
No abortions? We can't have that so this will be the end of all the shelter in place edicts by liberal governors [like Wolf, Murphy, Pritzker and and the dope in Calif]
Between this, and China Virus halting lifesaving surgeries for Transgenders, how will we ever manage????
OMG. Lets see what's more important keeping the abortion mills running or fighting the Virus. Look for an Obama Judge to step in and stop Ohio in the name of some fabricated "constitutional" right.
wow, surprised it took this long. I'm sure that in NY Calif, and other liberal states, this won't be allowed to happen. It has come out that many liberals are up in arms because trans people can''t have their surgeries.
Interesting to see what the deep blue states decide here. will tell you alot about their priorities.
Get woke, go ... dead.
"Italian virologist says political correctness doomed his country's coronavirus response.
"Florence even launched a 'Hug a Chinese' Day initiative after Trump announced China travel restrictions."
https://www.theblaze.com/news/italy_political_correctness_china_coronavirus
Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost is violating the US Constitution's penumbra and emanations.
How can anyone bring a baby into the world knowing that it may get the sniffles?
Ohio's governor is taking a page out of Duterte's playbook. Next step is appointing retired military officials and police officers to key positions in government (just for the duration of the "crisis"). These creeps will bring with them a fascist mindset and use reactionary military tactics on anyone who doesn't obey.
But this is not how WE do it in America. I seriously dislike abortionists, but I hope they get their guns out.
Soooo...that isolation thing we are all gung ho about? Not so much...
maybe it is a good idea to limit all elective procedures if possible. However, many people are so heavily addicted to the political back and forth over every contentious issue that durning a potentially millennial-level pandemic crisis it's the one thing they can hold onto. Very sad and pathetic.
OT, apologies, but an Italian official's answer to a question I raised yesterday about how causes of death are identified and recorded -- may put it in an open thread later:
"“The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus."
“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says."
So the very measurement and recording of Wuhan deaths is suspect.
Maybe they should give the babies to the people who had to abandon fertility treatment?
No problem. When they finally re-open, the spare parts will fetch a higher price, being better developed.
probably not in china, the numbers are probably underplayed, but there is no context to the Italian cases,
yes we must grind a million plus lives underfoot because reasons,
Of course, they always trample on womxn's rights first!!
As of this morning, according to Worldometer New U.S. deaths have dropped 2 days in a row now (3/20 and 3/21). And Total New Cases dropped yesterday for the first time from 5,594 on Friday to 4,824 yesterday. If this is true, it is very very good news. I don't know why I'm not seeing it reported anywhere. Am I missing something?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
Except that I can potentially live to my nineties with my heart condition, even though I may fall to the scythe of the ChiCom virus, Will you say that it’s my heart condition which killed me?
"that killed me...” or maybe “what killed me."
I'm pro-Life, but curious: If an abortion is going to thereby be delayed beyond the second trimester, will anyone be in favor of making an exception and allowing abortion later?
If you won't, I can see how the mother might not be so quick to see this as elective and non-essential.
Most of Italy's crisis was caused by importing (some were illegal) immigrants from Wuhan Provence. Its why Italy is different than Spain, France, or Germany in the intensity of the crisis.
The Koreans, Japanese and Singapore have the Virus under control. Social discipline. A homogeneous population. Exactly what the globalists hate.
How can anyone bring a baby into the world knowing that it may get the sniffles?
When I was a baby my family was so poor that we only had one sniffle for the whole family.
Fernandistein, how did you get my high school yearbook picture for your avatar, you son of a bitch?
Boo hoo. The reality is that abortions are most often purely elective surgeries (the ones that are not elective, but are performed to save the life of the mother are, still allowed, of course). You can argue psychological harm to the women involved all you want, but that doesn’t mean that they face physical danger if their abortions are delayed. I think that most would agree with tha authorities, who put this sort of surgery down with cataracts, gall bladders, liposuction, and breast implants. Nice, but not a priority when people stand to die from the Wuhan Coronavirus if enough medical supplies are not available.
Reminds me a bit of the people who are so adamant about their personal pronouns. They are devastated that the rest of us don’t give a crap about them. The people upset about deprioritizing elective abortions are similar, to the extent that we are supposed to agree with them that a woman’s right to chose to abort her kid should triumph over everything else, including a COVID-19 patient getting adequate care. And if we don’t agree, presumably they (those upset about this policy) will suffer irreparable psychological damage, just as those demanding that we use their preferred pronouns, over the obvious ones. But in the scheme of things, the psychological benefit that you gain by society prioritizing elective abortions over real health care needs doesn’t outweigh the physical harm to others that demanding elective abortions be a top priority might have to patients who might die if you have your way.
" “On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three.”
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/362263/
Do you realize how much Italy's fake numbers influenced our very expensive and overblown response?
I think we will find out just how many things (like elective abortion) are not necessary.
Also how many restrictive laws and processes that have been mandated by government and agency rules are not necessary AT ALL.
Things that actually impede instead of help. The FDA rules that cause new drugs to be years to be releases. FDA rules that don't allow already common drugs in Europe and other places to be prohibited until they go through the FDA's onerous procedures.
Government exist to mostly just get in the way and make laws to try to justify its existence. Do we really need all these restrictions?????
Bag of water: I don't think you really understand real-time data collection from natural systems that behave chaotically. It's something that takes a very special skill because there is a lot of confounding factors and noise involved that's beyond some people's capability of understanding.
Your attitude and frequent citing of these quote-unquote facts is very feminine style of thinking. It's also quite immature. no wonder you are one of those people that lives life in constant fear of violent attack and feels he needs to arm himself.
The Bible said it best, you are good at straining gnats while letting camels pass
More from Italy:
"The average age of those who’ve died from the virus in Italy is 79.5. As of March 17, 17 people under 50 had died from the disease. All of Italy’s victims under 40 have been males with serious existing medical conditions."
Median age of "fatalities" now over 80. Half with 3 or more illnesses. Recorded as dying from "the virus."
They ought to notice that the much bigger contagion risk from prenatal care dominates, if they're really after suppressing the virus.
Sebastian, people who die in car accidents are also tested for Covid 19. If they have the disease, Covid's tally increases.
Italy's numbers are trash and they're poisoning the discussion...
"Do you realize how much Italy's fake numbers influenced our very expensive and overblown response?"
Looks like it.
Plus the hospital "crisis" there results from putting people over 80 with several pre-existing conditions on ventilators.
Rcocean,
Not just illegals. Chinese bought up many of the factories in northern Italy and sent 100,000 chinese to run them.
There were direct, non-stop, daily flights between Wuhan and Italy.
Direct flights from other Chinese cities too
John Henry
Sebastian Median age of "fatalities" now over 80. Half with 3 or more illnesses. Recorded as dying from "the virus."
Exactly. Most of those who are dead were already sick. The Wuhan Flu virus was just the coup de grace One last kick in the pants on your way out.
Sorry if that sounds cold or callous. I don't mean it that way. BUT it is reality.
I'm going for a walk. It looks like everyone wants to talk about the same crap over and over.
What's the death rate this hour? What will it be at 12 Noon? Stay tuned.
that site next strain, provides a roadmap of the original vectors, china to the west coast through iran to north and south America,
"Sorry if that sounds cold or callous. I don't mean it that way. BUT it is reality.”
I will explain that to my child who lives with a congenital heart condition. I will be sure to add the part about how you didn’t mean to be “cold or callous."
Can't go to church? Sunday Mass and Protestant Service for March 22 (Video)
https://commoncts.blogspot.com/2020/03/cant-go-to-church-sunday-mass-and.html
Let's face reality. We chose the certainty of economic ruin over the risk of incremental increase in morbidity by the virus. Some people stand to benefit substantially.
Certain economic ruin says Chicken Little.
This just like that Twilight Zone episode “Button Button” where you get to push a button and somebody you don’t know dies, but you get a million dollars. We know that there are a lot of people here who would hit that button faster than if they knew the right answer on Jeopardy.
Looks like no more wonton sploogin' for stooges for the time being. That could be a good thing.
I support abortion, but I’m not hard core about it. I don't support abortions after the point of viability, for instance. Still, the question has to be asked — which uses up more medical protective gear, an abortion or a live birth? My intuition is that live births consume more medical protective gear, and this is absolutely true for live births via C-section.
Howard, I don't think you understand the difference between arguing with data and baseless ad hominem attacks. Also, what exactly is wrong with a " feminine style of thinking"? Are you saying women can't think straight, or use data?
I've worked extensively in pharma for the past 44 years and have a lot of experience in aseptic (sterile) manufacturing.
The hand sterilent that I most commonly see is based on isopropyl alcohol. Isopropyl alcohol is also commonly used as a wipe, dip, or spray for sanitizing most everthing in aseptic processing.
Yet all the articles see are about ethyl alcohol.
Anybody know whats up with that?
John Henry
Non-essential abortions? Is there any other kind?
@Aunty Trump, the day will come when your child can get a heart transplant and all will be well. Heck, your kid can have mine if I’ve kicked the bucket. It isn’t perfect (LBBB) but it has worked very well for 73 years and should be good for a bunch more.
“I'm pro-Life, but curious: If an abortion is going to thereby be delayed beyond the second trimester, will anyone be in favor of making an exception and allowing abortion later?”
“If you won't, I can see how the mother might not be so quick to see this as elective and non-essential.”
Is being pro choice curious similar to being bi-curious and trans-curious? 🤔
Seriously though, having a kid (I.e. terminating a pregnancy normally) would, almost inevitably, use up significantly more medical supplies than even a late term abortion. The issue then is timing. The implied assumption is that treating COVID-19 victims is going to present a relatively short term acute need for medical supplies. There is reason to believe that the need for such will be less in a couple months. For one thing, like other relatively similar coronaviruses, it is somewhat likely that this one is also temperature and solar exposure sensitive. Meaning that it is probably more likely than not to die down a bit over the summer. So far, identified infections have strongly tended towards being in a temperate band around the world, which coincides with major population centers in first and second world countries. Very little identified infection in hotter climates, or parts of the year, that Africa and Central and Southern America are experiencing right now. Moreover, as testing ramps up, and more and more unreported carriers are detected, and quarantined, I think it likely that the progress of the disease will ultimately head back down. As with a lot of things, disease epidemics tend to occur in places in a normal (bell shaped) distribution, with infections in some countries (e.g. S Korea, Japan) already starting to peak, and presumably soon start to decline. Thus, I expect that we are more likely talking maybe a 2-3 month delay, and not a delay that would push that many women into their third trimester.
"then you are making the argument that his action is unconstitutional."
So was the underground railroad. Unconstitutional doesn't necessarily mean morally wrong.
Especially when it interpretation of the Constitution and not directly stated by the Constitution. It's an odd thing that the very thing that the writers of the Constitution would explicitly support, saving the life of the unborn, is an unconstitutional act.
Strange times.
"Yet all the articles see are about ethyl alcohol.
Anybody know whats up with that?"
Most of the common hand sanitizers sold in stores and check out aisles I see are 60% ethyl alcohol. Not sure why. Maybe because it's cheaper or is less harsh smelling than isopropyl, sold in the large bottles.
I read somewhere that the U.S. birth rate is shrinking. They'll have to write a new article in nine months to describe how this has changed. They'll print it right before the article about how we're all doomed due to the population explosion.
John Henry: This from the CDC: Hand washing mechanically removes pathogens, while laboratory data demonstrate that 60% ethanol and 70% isopropanol, the active ingredients in CDC-recommended alcohol-based hand sanitizers, inactivates viruses that are genetically related to, and with similar physical properties as, the 2019-nCoV.
So it would appear that a lower concentration of ethanol is needed. Another factor is that the liquor distilleries can produce [and are producing] hand sanitizers as they are already geared up.
If some of you are already talking about how it is good to save the unborn and you think this is what Yost is doing, then you are making the argument that his action is unconstitutional.
Why can't it be a dessert topping AND a floor wax? The Ds love to set up heads-I-win-tails-you-lose conundra.
It's extremely tempting to wade in to the debate about abortion under pandemic conditions, but what you have in Ohio is an increasing breakdown in the rule by law. The Governor started that process when he ignored the Democrat judge (appointed in 2005, but basically an Obamajudge for their complete disregard of the current crisis) trying to force the primary election. So hearing that Ohio is cracking down on the Sacred Constitutional Rite of abortion isn't especially surprising. If we still had a judiciary respected by both sides of the partisan divide, no NeverTrumpers don't count, this would be more shocking. But now that cops are doing their best to protect themselves instead of women seeking abortions, you should expect a group of Christians who don't fear death to knock politely on the door and calmly inform Ohio abortionists that their facility is Closed.
Fernandistein, how did you get my high school yearbook picture for your avatar, you son of a bitch?
So you're really Illya Kuryakin?!?
Oh, that pesky US Constitution ain’t carrying much weight here in Ohio these days.
Blogger Dust Bunny Queen said...
Sebastian Median age of "fatalities" now over 80. Half with 3 or more illnesses. Recorded as dying from "the virus."
Exactly. Most of those who are dead were already sick. The Wuhan Flu virus was just the coup de grace One last kick in the pants on your way out.
==================
Actually I see tat as humblebragging about being cold and callous. Mr Spock wannabe. Sounds more like “useless feeders” to the rest us though DBQ.
This is the old Althouse back btw. Lots of denialists here screaming how restrictions and closures are unconstitutional. But they applaud an unconstitutional restriction on these women.
Nicely done AA.
I don’t understand why PPE has become the issue people are panicking over now. With so much of our industrial base on panic furlough a lot of PPE is available and the Feds have waived product liability on repurposed gear like N95 masks and there are enough Tyvek or reusable poly “bunny suits” that can be distributed from industrial supply companies to medical use. We don’t even need more ventilators right now because we have enough for the affected people.
I have been anti-panic from the beginning, while supporting good social distancing and hand washing, the things that will also disrupt the spread of the normal flu (which still kills about 70 Americans a day). I despise the 24/7 virus hype that makes people scared. Closing gun shops, abortion clinics, and other places on political hit lists smells bad and looks worse. Governing needs to not overreach to maintain public trust.
BagofH2O:
Howard has his head up his ass. I don't know if that's where he keeps it usually, but that's where it is now.
Tom said...
Oh, that pesky US Constitution ain’t carrying much weight here in Ohio these days.
3/22/20, 10:00 AM
If you told the Founders that drag queen story time, rampant urban criminality, abortion, and illegal Mexicans were going to be features of society, they would have had to seriously tighten up the Consitution. More likely they would insist on an amendment ordering the death penalty for any woman requesting a vote.
Althouse and the Left are willing to allow thousands to die, just so they can go on killing babies.
Now do the mandatory bankrupting of businesses in counties with not a single case of Wuhan Flu.
MikeMJBWolf: The main reason for postponing unnecessary medical procedures is to conserve equipment and resources, not to limit exposure to the virus.
“ The hand sterilent that I most commonly see is based on isopropyl alcohol. Isopropyl alcohol is also commonly used as a wipe, dip, or spray for sanitizing most everthing in aseptic processing.”
“Yet all the articles see are about ethyl alcohol.”
“Anybody know whats up with that?”
Part of it is that ethanal is drinking alcohol. You don’t want your homeless population stocking up on their drinking alcohol in the First Aide aisle of a pharmacy, or in the Beauty section of a DollarTree.
The other aspect, I think, is that isopropyl alcohol appears to be easier to produce, “It is primarily produced by combining water and propene in a hydration reaction or by hydrogenating acetone.[16][17] There are two routes for the hydration process and both processes require that the isopropyl alcohol be separated from water and other by-products by distillation. Isopropyl alcohol and water form an azeotrope, and simple distillation gives a material that is 87.9% by weight isopropyl alcohol and 12.1% by weight water.” (Wikipedia). Ethanol is typically produced by fermentation and filtration.
I don't see the problem --- abortion is legal in many places in the US, up to birth and beyond (if I understand the situation correctly). So, there is no particular urgency for abortions without pressing medical reason that cannot wait.
I am also a little puzzled about the request to currently visit any hospital unless it's a life and death situation --- the Corona virus is airborne and persistent on surfaces and so, the hospital air and everything in those buildings will have a huge viral load.
Having an abortion in that situation (which results in a large wound and a depressed immune system plus hormonal mayhem) is a suboptimal idea, if you get infected with Corona in that situation, you have a much higher chance to need ICU care.
So, it's not only about preserving hospital space, but also about preventing vulnerable people from catching Corona. Whether you by lock-down older people for this reason or refuse abortion temporarily, is pretty much the same thing.
Hospitals are already cancelling elective surgery, and our local Level 1 trauma center has cancelled ALL non-emergency appointments for April and it is a HUGE teaching hospital. We have resources and slack in our system that make it very likely no hospital or city will be overwhelmed by the Wuhan Flu. You will hear rumors of shortages but those are the exceptions and anecdotal compared to the vast majority of affected people, who are still a tiny itty bitty portion of our vast populace. Keep it in perspective.
EVERY elective procedure EVERYWHERE is being postponed.
But it is true that some people think that abortion on demand -- and abortionist profits -- are the most important things in the world.
"Howard has his head up his ass. I don't know if that's where he keeps it usually, but that's where it is now."
I don't get why some people make an effort to only disparage good news in the data and champion the bad. Actually I do get it, and it's not pretty.
If I came in here and said the new data looks terrible, I'd get only support from such people, but bring in some good news from the data, and it's like your some kind of heretic deserving of personal attack. I'm left asking myself, why do these people want and support bad news so much? I'm not trying to gloss over the bad, but bad news gets all kind of automatic support by human nature, and good news needs at least a hearing.
Saw an article yesterday about how tranny lives are being threatened because hospitals are not doing elective surgeries. Like dick snipping.
Quick, everybody feel sorry for them.
John Henry
Actually I see tat as humblebragging about being cold and callous. Mr Spock wannabe. Sounds more like “useless feeders” to the rest us though DBQ
Sorry you all see it that way.
Reality is that if you are already sick, or old AND sick, the flu or any other illness is is going to be just the "icing on the cake". Slipping and falling on the ice and breaking a hip can be the coup de grace that can take you out.
I have relatives who have "pre existing conditions". People I love dearly. I am not invulnerable either and have some health issues of my own. Family and friends of all ages.... with heart issues, cancer, dementia and cancer (my father), diabetes, lupus, lung issues... etc. Do I want them to catch the virus and exacerbate their condition? Speed up their exit. Of course not. Do I consider them useless feeders. Get serious.
We and they are doing everything that they can to stay safe. Not taking measures to prolong life because the end is nigh (again my father). Despite our best efforts everyone may not be safe. We are actually never safe.
ON a personal level...obviously, I don't want to die. However, I'm less afraid of dying myself than leaving a world of economic destruction, chaos, and totalitarian regimes to my children and grandchildren.
I'm sorry you all can't face the reality that some people will die. It is unfair. It is sad. It is heartbreaking. It can often be prevented. It often cannot. BUT it is inevitable...eventually. One more kick in the pants that life gives us every day.
I know Turtle. I thought it was clear from what I write that hospitals have freed up space, personnel and equipment and will not generally be overwhelmed by Wuhan. We will here if some problems but we have other areas that will be less affected and we can absorb a lot of surge before real problems arise.
Only 47 new deaths yesterday and 20 of them just in New York. New U.S. cases lower than yesterday, and that's with expanded testing (so not growing exponentially). I see this thing as containable now without any extreme measures. We should educate and remind the public this well about the common flu every year.
Wisconsin initially excluded health clubs from gathering bans that included churches. That’s a problem. If Ohio excluded some other elective procedure from a ban that includes abortion, that would be a problem. But if they’re consistent, then they should be good.
If the abortion thing becomes a widespread issue it means that, psychologically, panic over the pandemic is already receding. It’s so predictable and so American. Back to our regularly scheduled programming.
I know Turtle. I thought it was clear from what I write that hospitals have freed up space, personnel and equipment and will not generally be overwhelmed by Wuhan. We will here if some problems but we have other areas that will be less affected and we can absorb a lot of surge before real problems arise.
Yes, Mike, but the equipment is all ordered from the same suppliers and needs to be diverted to the areas where it is most required. Make sense?
I can't wait to see the elective male genital mutilation stop. Of course, the moils don't waste any antiseptics or antiseptic procedures while they infect the little atheist boy with herpes.
Aunty Trump:
The difference is that your child has a loving parent who wants them and who has the resources and the socially secure situation to take care of a child.
We already have too many unwanted children even with abortion, and the care system is often dangerous and the results are abysmal.
If you want to prevent abortion, the solution is to make being a parent possible (and desirable). Having children has been reduced to being a 'complex hobby' that when it goes wrong ends up being a hard slog without much reward.
So, abortion for women in less than perfect situations is mandatory in modern society.
Now image what would happen if abortion was banned... there would be an army of unhappy and maladjusted people meting out abuse to the world --- we would see many women with 10+ kids that often will be semi-feral, unless you want to allow abortion after kid 3?5? n?? or forcibly tie tubes/administer contraceptives {do you really want to go there?}
Abortion is the lesser evil --- I agree it's terrible, but it's only part of a much larger problem that will balloon if we ban it.
Just like the ethical respirator dilemma, the wrong question is presented
Does the govt have the power to control a persons actions???? People of ALL stripes have opined about actions "the govt should take". From seizing production facilities to make medical masks, to shutting down the Wildbrook Ave Womens's Book Club, weekly meeting.
Answer the question. Does the govt have the power to control all of these actions? ALL of them?
Now go crazy explaining why your personal hobby horse is exempt from the govt actions.
The govt has declared abortions elective. Exceptions for life of mother.
I saw the squealing that took place when President Trump pointed out that mayors and governors should get off their asses and procure the needed assets. Its not the federal govts job to take on powers that belong to state and local govts. While the President took the heat because of his lack of compassion, he is 100% correct. And if you think the Federal got should step in and provide for all, then you have to suck it up and agree the govt has the power to identify abortions as elective medical procedures.
So this isn't about what qualifies a column A, and what defers to column B. The question is. Does the Govt have the power to create the list?
I see this thing as containable now without any extreme measures.
We're still within the incubation period. It will be at least another ten days before any lessening up.
Althouse: If some of you are already talking about how it is good to save the unborn and you think this is what Yost is doing, then you are making the argument that his action is unconstitutional.
I don't think his proclamation has anything to do with abortion per se. I believe what Yost is doing...is to free up medical resources from non essential procedures....ELECTIVE abortion as opposed to ones that are life saving to the mother. Those would not be elective.
Elective surgeries and procedures that can be put off for some time should also be suspended. You can get that bunion surgery done later. That knee replacement...can wait. Save the medical resources for those who are going to be in imminent dire need.
Whether abortion should be legal, illegal or restricted is a moot point right now.
If a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged, a liberal might be a conservative who has seen the true colors of “conservatives.” I always thought that liberals and conservatives largely agreed that we seek the greater good, but just have different means and have shut out the arguments that conservatives were largely selfish and heartless. Hmmmm...
Sorry if your job is in danger. I lost everything when I was thirty, my home, had to sell my stuff, including a little sailboat I still kind of miss, on the front lawn for a grub stake to pack up my family to start a new life in another state with a better economy. It was not the end of the world.
Does the government have the power during a public health emergency to direct the use of medical resources, including the seizure of resources from one provider to another in order to treat those affected?
Yes.
" there would be an army of unhappy and maladjusted people “
Eugenics.
And once again, it is mostly the abortion profiteers who are making the most noise.
This is the same industry that argues that it should not be held to the health and safety regulations that apply to every other medical provider, and who files lawsuits to enjoin laws that require them to provide patient safety and sanitation.
Sorry, but the Gosnells of the world are entitled to no deference or special treatment here.
So its OK to shut gun shops and stop legal carry? Rather one sided don't you think.
Added to my last comment. Save the medical resources for those who are going to be in imminent dire need.
This should also not be a permanent condition.
Medical care, when we are not in crisis mode, should not be by committee, by some artifical cut off date or rule book. This is why "medicare for all" and any other socialistic version of medical care is doomed to be a rationing system. People "chosen" to die by fiat on a cost benefit analysis basis.
An emergency should not be allowed to become a permanent condition of life in order to keep people in power over us. Trading freedom for false security is a fool's trade.
The private sector can redirect resources much more efficiently than government. I don’t understand Turtle’s yes-but-ism style of questioning.
Italy's Death Rate is due to a back log.
Italy seems to be going back for all elder people that died, and seeing if they were infected. If they were infected, that is listed as death due to CoronaVirus. And since testing was not done at the time, that means there was a backlog. I expect the death rate will stop showing the huge increases soon.
The order seems consistent with postponing every other type of elective medical procedure. If we're being honest, abortion is almost always elective.
Lots of people seem to get upset when the government deems their personal desires non-essential. I can only imagine the furor that will arise this week now that the salons have been ordered to close and people can't get their beauty treatments.
An excellent article that explains the culture of the FDA and CDC from 2007. It explains why they are such a slow, zero risk culture, that has problems dealing with fast changing viruses.
Germs and the City
Two centuries of success against infectious disease have left us complacent—and vulnerable.
Peter W. Huber
Spring 2007
City Journal
And this newer article supports the culture challenge:
Azar in the crosshairs for delays in virus tests - Politico
Yes, it's a bit of a Trump hit piece with the premise Azar should have fixed the CDC and FDA issues, and the FDA wanted to act, but was held back.
Other medical facilities have switched to emergency only, why should the abortion clinics be exempt?
"Howard has his head up his ass. I don't know if that's where he keeps it usually, but that's where it is now."
Helps prevent getting infected with COVID-19.
“Sorry if your job is in danger. I lost everything when I was thirty, my home, had to sell my stuff, including a little sailboat I still kind of miss, on the front lawn for a grub stake to pack up my family to start a new life in another state with a better economy. It was not the end of the world.”
Wow, you were a veritable Tom Joad. Now multiply your latter day Okiedom by hundreds of thousands, if not millions.
“C’mon man! Pull yourself together! When I was thirty....”
Ohio is only ordering fetuses to shelter in place.
I am Laslo.
Contra Althouse, those who favor a temporary ban on elective abortions aren’t necessarily arguing for a violation of the Constitution. What the Supreme Court said was that the pregnant woman had the right to determine whether the life of her unborn child was more or less important than her reasons for wanting an abortion. Here, the question is whether the reasons for wanting the abortion are more important than the public health reasons for temporarily preserving certain medical resources. So long as that’s what the government is doing I can’t see Howe existing case law could prohibit it.
Ohio is only ordering fetuses to shelter in place.
:-) Laslo.
Pulling up stakes and starting over in a relatively healthy economy: not much of a problem to succeed.
Millions of people doing that simultaneously: literal impossibility.
Destroying an economy is easy. Restarting it is tricky, long-term stuff. It's about balancing interests and trade-offs. If you think our current course is protecting lives, I disagree. I believe poor people suffer worse health effects than wealthier ones. Prove me wrong.
As I wrote 2 or 3 weeks ago, my major personal concern is my elderly mother who is pre-diabetic, and my youngest sister who is due to give birth in early/mid May. I believe my sister will be OK- the hospitals are not overrun, but I do think I am going to speak her and her husband about planning for alternatives to hospitals for delivery, just to be on the safe side.
“If you want to prevent abortion, the solution is to make being a parent possible (and desirable). Having children has been reduced to being a 'complex hobby' that when it goes wrong ends up being a hard slog without much reward.”
How entitled, weak-ass, and pathetic can you get? What “reward” did you think you were supposed to receive? The good parent doesn’t feel rewarded. They raise a child that rewards society.
Ohio is only ordering fetuses to shelter in place.
I am Laslo.
3/22/20, 11:15 AM
It took a while, but we finally got to the best part of the thread. Probably the whip of the week, if not the month.
"Now, if the idea is something other than to conserve medical resources, then that is exactly what is unconstitutional under the current case law."
Shouldn't we have a more exact term than "unconstitutional"? How about "unpenumbral"?
Abortion clinics provide healthcare to fetuses, and their mothers that dont want to murder them? Interesting interpretation there.
Bag, two days of good numbers warms my heart but it’s only two days. Could just be a blip. If it continues that’ll be awesome, but it really is too soon to tell.
It's frustrating not knowing the number of tests done. For some reason on the NY State site, I can't find it. It is now 15,000, is this because of more testing, or because of something else.
CA is at 1,124 cases, with 25,000 tests done.
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/Pages/Immunization/ncov2019.aspx
Washington State:
1,793 with about 27,000 tests done.
https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/Coronavirus
(Y)ou are making the argument that his action is unconstitutional.
Unconstitutional it may be but an act that pretends to be law isn't when it is patently unjust (as the Supreme Court's abortion regime is). I'll take your word for it that Mr Yost's business won't survive review in the courts.
Laslo, that was one of your best.
Mark said...
Does the government have the power during a public health emergency to direct the use of medical resources, including the seizure of resources from one provider to another in order to treat those affected?
Yes.
3/22/20, 10:48 AM
What's with all the qualifiers?
Does the govt have the power during a emergency to direct the use of resources, including the seizure of resources from on individual to another in order to address the emergency?
This is important because I have been lectured to, that Catastrophic, Anthropogenic Global Climate Change. is a national emergency. I have been told, deaths by guns is a national emergency.
Does the govt have unlimited power to cancel rights by declaring an emergency?
This won't help: Arizona Man steals dozens of coronavirus test kits
And maybe he doesn't realize that they are useless without processing. What scum. If this siege continues much longer acts like this could get one shot.
"It's frustrating not knowing the number of tests done."
New York did a daily update 2 or 3 days ago, Cuomo himself, that showed 20% positives for that day, but they were deep testing the "hot spot/s". The states that do show total number of tests vs positives, the rates are in a narrow range of 8-13% mostly, but you are right, most don't show the total number of tests which is an important metric, and one can be suspicious that the number isn't included in a lot of cases, and it is frustrating.
Yancy I am going to speak her and her husband about planning for alternatives to hospitals for delivery, just to be on the safe side.
There are alternatives. Assuming that there are NO underlying medical conditions or existing problems with the pregnancy and...right now with the possible contagion in hospitals due to virus patients, a midwife or home delivery might be safer.
Women have been delivering babies without hospitals since forever. Certified midwives are quite knowledgeable. And in a pinch a Veterinarian can treat humans. It happens.
First the gummint causes a shortage of critical medical supplies and equipment by outlawing price signaling. Then it uses the fact of a shortage to curtail the rights of women. Par for the gummint course.
I don't know what you're all het up about jimbino, aren't you holed up in Brazil where everything is better than here?
The word of the day from the hair-on-fire media is OVERWHELMED. The only actual examples I’ve seen of overwhelmed medical facilities is people who aren’t presenting the symptoms but want testing anyway.
I think the theory is that elective surgery consume resources NOW and now is when there’s a bottleneck in resources.
Frankly, Ohio is outpacing it’s neighboring states, like Michigan, by enforcing stronger restrictions earlier in the process.
There were many gay men during the early AIDS crisis who were clamoring to keep the baths open. They didn't see any evidence that their depraved practices had any thing to do with the disease and whined that it was just a homophobic government plot to crush the gay community. Some of you may be too young but I remember it very well.
“If some of you are already talking about how it is good to save the unborn and you think this is what Yost is doing, then you are making the argument that his action is unconstitutional.”
If Yost’s argument that he is preserving vital medical resources is defensible, incidentally saving the unborn doesn’t render it unconstitutional.
And we can thank Dr. Anthony Fauci for taking a sane and effective approach to the AIDS pandemic. So let's listen to him today. He is 79 years old. Pray for his health.
Aunty Trump:
You're correct --- abortion is eugenics.
But whatever label you pick, the problem that is prevented by abortions is far worse in every aspect, for everyone who is 'helped' by making them illegal.
(I don't like abortion either, but we need solutions, not complaints. We can admire our superior morals all day, but it does nothing to put out the fire.)
"Sorry if your job is in danger. I lost everything when I was thirty, my home, had to sell my stuff, including a little sailboat I still kind of miss, on the front lawn for a grub stake to pack up my family to start a new life in another state with a better economy. It was not the end of the world."
Someone famous once said something like, "one death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic".
Works for both sides of this issue.
To get a better measure of the actual deaths due to the coronavirus, we should be measuring excess deaths. A high percentage of people who have died would have died anyway due to their underlying heath conditions. However, since the number of deaths attributed to the coronavirus compared to the normal number of deaths is in the noise level, we can’t use this measurement.
I am surprised by the fact that some of the regular commenters on this site are acting almost hysterically. I am 76 years old so I clearly an in the high-risk category. However, I do not think that we will all die unless the whole population is quarantined for three or more months. In fact I think that this “cure” will literally be worse than the disease. You cannot save the country by destroying the economy.
In general, all is proceeding according to the ChiComs plan, but this is a glitch in what the Democrats have been praying for.
Aunty Trump said...
"Sorry if that sounds cold or callous. I don't mean it that way. BUT it is reality.”
I will explain that to my child who lives with a congenital heart condition. I will be sure to add the part about how you didn’t mean to be “cold or callous."
347 people died of the flu last week.
Almost 1000 people commit suicide every week. I bet a few hundred thousand bankruptcies can get us over 1000 a week.
I will let them know you care about them too and that when you lash out like a vicious little child it is because you care.
Achilles using the same logic chickenhawks use in passing off military casualties and suicides as no big thing compared with Peace time training and car accidents.
CrackerMC said:
"How entitled, weak-ass, and pathetic can you get? What “reward” did you think you were supposed to receive? The good parent doesn’t feel rewarded. They raise a child that rewards society."
I'm not talking about 'good parents' who want children and 'want to reward society'. (whatever that means :)
I'm talking about women who don't have the resources, the ability or the will to be parents.
Look at the birth rates --- most women are avoiding pregnancy with contraceptives and quite a few never get pregnant in the first place. Children are a heavy burden and many people no longer want them or can even afford to have them, often they just do not have the time and energy.
That's the problem --- not whether those women are celibate, prevent or abort.
NYS has tested 61,401. So far hospitalizations are at 1,974. Total hospital beds in the state are 50,000.
“If some of you are already talking about how it is good to save the unborn and you think this is what Yost is doing, then you are making the argument that his action is unconstitutional.”
If Yost’s argument that he is preserving vital medical resources is defensible, incidentally saving the unborn doesn’t render it unconstitutional.
I don't want to derail the topic, but this is exactly the argument Schiff presented to the Senate. IF the actions are within enumerated powers, can you impeach if impure motives could be a possibility?
Yellowbeard: I'll kill anyone who get's in the way of me killing anyone.
“This is important because I have been lectured to, that Catastrophic, Anthropogenic Global Climate Change. is a national emergency. I have been told, deaths by guns is a national emergency.”
“Does the govt have unlimited power to cancel rights by declaring an emergency?”
Just got off the phone with my super prepper friend. And we discussed just that. Need to wait until the Dems get back in power in DC for them to pull that off. I don’t think that they will get away with it in regards to guns, because objectively we don’t have a gun violence problem with those legally owning firearms. Rather, it involves illegal gun possession and is highly concentrated in deep blue urban areas run by Democrats. They try to seize guns, on the basis of the data they have now, and it won’t go well for them, at all.
But we have had a decade or so of federally funded global warming (etc) studies being run, inevitably with the same, very narrow result - that if all their assumptions are correct (many of them are not), hen we are doomed if we don’t immediately ban internal combustion engines and jet travel, unless done by progressive elites, who absolutely need to get between their multiple houses around the world. This does worry me, because it is apparently being actively discussed by the left.
If some of you are already talking about how it is good to save the unborn and you think this is what Yost is doing, then you are making the argument that his action is unconstitutional.
First, I am not at all impressed with the notion that an action is unconstitutional only if one’s motives are impure, but perfectly constitutional if one’s motives are noble, or at least honorable.
Second, lots of unconstitutional actions actions become perfectly legal, for a limited time, in the face of a national emergency. Looters were shot without trial in San Francisco in 1906 after the earthquake. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War. Etc.
Althouse, your view of the future is unnecessarily bleak IMO. I know several pregnant woman (planned, as far as I know); I agree it's a time of uncertainty -- but each pregnancy leads to an uncertain future. Whether it's from Wuhan Flu, economic uncertainty, family predispositions -- the list is endless.
I'm not trying to go all Pollyanna on you, necessarily, but I hope your greatest fears can be calmed somehow. A good tonic is to stop reading daily updates on the spread and deaths; Ask yourself: What good does this knowledge do me? How will my lifestyle change because of it.
If it Bleeds, it Leads has morphed into If It's about the Sick, they'll Click. Resist.
If some of you are already talking about how it is good to save the unborn and you think this is what Yost is doing, then you are making the argument that his action is unconstitutional.
First, I am not at all impressed with the notion that an action is unconstitutional only if one’s motives are impure, but perfectly constitutional if one’s motives are noble, or at least honorable.
Second, lots of unconstitutional actions actions become perfectly legal, for a limited time, in the face of a national emergency. Looters were shot without trial in San Francisco in 1906 after the earthquake. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War. Etc.
"It will be a time of people dying alone from coronavirus, suffering and pleading visibly on Twitter, and begging for help that will never come."
China, in their infinite superiority, has a simple solution to this. You shut down Twitter.
Second, lots of unconstitutional actions actions become perfectly legal, for a limited time, in the face of a national emergency. Looters were shot without trial in San Francisco in 1906 after the earthquake. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War. Etc.
Good observation, Big Mike. And there are plenty of other examples. The important thing is that these measures are terminated when the crisis ends.
I'm sure that many of the people opposed to--horrified by--the ban on abortions are he same assholes cheering on all the newly-implaced restrictions on gun sales. They can go to hell. When they give an actual, black letter Constitutional right the same degree of reverence that assign to abortions, then maybe I'll give a damn.
All the measures enacted granting powers to government, and changing tax laws, etc. should have an automatic expiration when the crisis is past.
Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the mechanics are German, and nobody is Italian or Chinese or North Korean, and it's all organized by the Swiss - 15 Inches Tall by 10 Inches Wide Aluminum
Is this the only surgical procedure that is a constitutional right? Is there a constitutional right to have a doctor present when a live birth is performed? Is there a constitutional right to a triple-bypass?
Very odd someone (sorry, I mean a woman-type special-rights type someone) has a right to a certain medical procedure.
Brush up your Aquinas. Start quoting him now.
The lawyers will have to dig into the doctrine of double effect, whether or not they want to argue for or against.
then you are making the argument that his action is unconstitutional
Heh, no, not at all.
The argument is simply that the SC is enumerated by its own inverse umbra.
There are a lot of people in extreme pain right now because their "elective" surgeries have been cancelled. Hip replacements, gall bladder removals, etc.
It's their body, too.
The Constitution does grant right to elective abortion (i.e. premeditated homicide), but, under the established Pro-Choice religion, and, separately, a right to privacy, there is a rite to deny life that is deemed unworthy of life for purposes of social progress, social justice, GDP, "benefits", democratic leverage, cannibalized-child, etc.
the US Constitution's penumbra and emanations.
The Twilight fringe, its attendant religion/ethics, and ideological practices.
"Italian virologist says political correctness doomed his country's coronavirus response."
Diversity not only breeds adversity, but it is a first-order forcing of viral spread and disease. PC, including: progressive (i.e. monotonic) corruption, conflation, confusion, congruence, etc. The same thing happened with the HIV pandemic, where people were afraid to speak of the majority numbers and behaviors in the trans/homo male communities. And before that in the sexually liberal practices of men and women. So, granny and a lot of other people... persons will die or be severely burdened, and economies will progress, for the sake of #NoJudgment #NoLabels opportunism and cover-ups.
You shut down Twitter.
Aside from the "fireside chats" with the president... The social contagion spread by the media and social platforms has the potential to be worse than the pathogen, but, fortunately, that outcome has not materialized. So, prudence and boldness are the calls of the day and of life, and people will Twitter and Gab, too.
The traditional order is women and children... babies, first, and we allocate... allocated resources separately with that in mind.
“ First, I am not at all impressed with the notion that an action is unconstitutional only if one’s motives are impure, but perfectly constitutional if one’s motives are noble, or at least honorable.”
To be clear, based on the doctrine, the question is whether there is an undue burden on the woman’s choice. The govt can pursue the interest in protecting health, but not, prior to viability its own ideas about protecting the life of the unborn, which is the moral decision the woman controls. It is hard to know what the state is really up to, but that is the question at the heart of looking for an “undue burden.”
“ 'm not trying to go all Pollyanna on you, necessarily, but I hope your greatest fears can be calmed somehow. A good tonic is to stop reading daily updates on the spread and deaths; Ask yourself: What good does this knowledge do me? How will my lifestyle change because of it.”
You misjudge my state of mind. I am not consuming media in the manner you suggest. I am looking at facts, doing the math, and projecting the realistic worst case scenario. I am sledgehammering on occasion to push some people to see why what we are asked to do must be done. These people are endangering everyone and I am not going to let my blog be their playground.
Laslo at 11:15AM.
Damn if only Laslo was the headline writer, people would start buying newspapers again!
“ How will my lifestyle change because of it.”
MY lifestyle includes maintaining this blog, and I am making my contribution in the way that I believe is right. I read what I think is valuable and I am very selective about what I post and careful about what I say. But the comments are open, and I don’t like what some people use them for. Those people may get a change in their lifestyle to the extent that it involves commenting.
"...think of the health care needs of the pregnant woman."
AA writes about an catastrophic scenario which we aren't facing. She needs to abort because there may be no oby/gynie doctors alive when she comes to term. Sheesh.
The governor is weighing existing emergency treatment needs and deaths from coronovirus against existing medical resources. Sorry, pregnant ladies who want abortions - you don't always come first.
By "She" I meant the imagined pregnant woman.
Imagine going through pregnancy and childbirth in a time of scarcity — perhaps extreme scarcity.
Like almost every woman ever. Imagine using birth control!
Elective abortion. Elective is the operative word here. If an elective procedure is taking away medical resources that might be needed during a pandemic to save people's lives and to keep the pandemic from spreading, then that elective procedure should be shelved.
Note: I don't think this whole thing is a dire as being made out to be, but why take chances.
I swear, libs get more deranged by the minute.
N.n makes a great point.
Assuming that the abortion will take at some point before the fetus acquires the legal right to life, and assuming that (say) a kidney stone patient will be relieved surgically after a similar wait time only, which patient is more entitled to avoid pain, discomfort and the lasting trauma from the prolonged agony?
And, since the abortion will eventually happen and it's constitutional that it can occur at any time during pregnancy no matter how close to delivery, are her rights to have an abortion infringed if she has to wait until she gets one in the end?
Serious question professor:
So can the state impinge on my constitutional right to free exercise of religion, by ordering shelter in place, no gatherings for mass?
Or is it only the constitutional right to abortion on which the state can’t impinge?
Like almost every woman ever. Imagine using birth control!
The second choice: prevention, which doesn't require social distancing, or even isolation, minimal disruption and risk, and mitigates evolution of the worst case scenario: a "burden".
Ohio is only ordering fetuses to shelter in place.
Worth repeating.
bagoh20 said, "Am I missing something?"
You might be. What I saw yesterday on Worldometer was that "Serious or Critical" cases were at 64, well under 1% of active cases. Today that number has jumped to 795. I would consider that "not good", and I suspect that will reflect increasing deaths in the days to come.
I do think there is hysteria about this, but the numbers could be more encouraging.
Howard said...
Achilles using the same logic chickenhawks use in passing off military casualties and suicides as no big thing compared with Peace time training and car accidents.
3/22/20, 12:47 PM
Chickenhawks like Patton:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton%27s_speech_to_the_Third_Army
You are not all going to die. Only two percent of you right here today would be killed in a major battle.
The malleable "undue burden." The necessary justification for raising a single elective surgery to the level of a sacrament. Of course, you can't currently receive actual sacraments or other elective surgeries. But Roe, Doe, and Casey should be interpreted to mean limited medical resources can be diverted from necessary pandemic control and treatments to a completely normal and preventable condition. YouGoGirlz!
You misjudge my state of mind.
I'm glad to read that. I find myself most lugubrious in the middle of the night, as per usual, when I wake up and ponder everything that might go wrong. I don't worry for myself, but for my kids.
Also: Laslo: Bravo.
Seems politically unwise. Just like the Democrats efforts to circumvent the Hyde amendment in federal spending now is politically unwise. Picking a fight over what is and has been the status quo for a while during a time of crisis is not smart. Particularly, if that item is seen as at best, loosely related to COVID-19. A smart reporter would have asked the Attorney General's office what their best numbers on the types and quantities of medical equipment were estimated to have been saved by this action. Something tells me they don't have any number like that available. But reporters are no longer smart and haven't been smart for a while.
Good Test Data!
My test data I could not find:
https://covidtracking.com/data/#NY
As mentioned above, 60k tests done. 15k positive, about 25%.
Nationwide 250,000+ tests done. Nice improvement.
https://covidtracking.com/data/
Hat tip powerline:
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/03/rapid-progress-on-covid-testing.php
Showing the increase in us tests done.
(eaglebeak)
Jimbino: Mohels don't operate in hospitals, and they don't circumcise "little atheist boys"--they circumcise the male children of Orthodox Jews in the parents' homes, and they're not on hospital staffs, so I don't you and other atheists have much to worry about, unless you're finding mohels to do the procedures.
Meanwhile, speaking of famous Jews who were circumcised, it's sort of funny that Althouse felt the need to tell us that Jesus was "certainly" not pushing abortions.
No kidding.
@Molly Mohels don't operate in hospitals, and they don't circumcise "little atheist boys"--they circumcise the male children of Orthodox Jews in the parents' homes
The children of those Orthodox Jews are atheists, as are all children until they are sexually mutilated and later brainwashed. You're not born with foolish beliefs; it takes you years to acquire them.
jeremyabrams said...
By "She" I meant the imagined pregnant woman.
NO NO NO NO NO!!!
meade, get out the banhammer Jeremy is being transphobic implying that only women need abortions.
Men get pregnant too and msy want abortions.
Or are you a science denier, Jeremy? Do you really beleive that a person born with ovaries et all can't become a man?
Shame, shame.
John Henry
Ps-just funning you, Jeremy
The Constitution does not recognize a right to abort human life for causes other than self-defense. That rite was rediscovered through an interpretation of the Constitution by the Progressive Church under the Twilight faith, "secular" Pro-Choice religion, and liberal ideology. The Constitution does not recognize a right to torture a human life past one month with the evolution of the central nervous system, the presumptive seat of consciousness. These rites were recycled under the Church and its corporate wing Planned Parenthood, along with cannibalized-child for-profit and medical progress. In any case, the medical community should focus on life, not the wicked solution normalized by atheist cults, progressive religions, liberal sects, and Democrat party.
being transphobic implying that only women need abortions
Also trans/homosexual females, a mother, through artificial insemination, a father in absentia.
they circumcise the male children of Orthodox Jews in the parents' homes
Off with his foreskin! The Orthodox Jews are notably sexual active with a broad Posterity. The very definition and function of evolutionary fitness.
If the Hostess doesn't like the content of the comments she can:
1. Continue to bitch about them and act like a school marm which some will ignore
2. She can run her blog without comments which would be BORING AS FUCK
3. She can upgrade to a format that allows banning.
THEOLDMAN
Which will she choose?
I know two pregnant young women. One has just been told her Covid test came back positive after her husband, a physician, came home sick with fever, chest pain and dry cough, he tested positive too, their three children so far are negative and showing no symptoms. The other pregnant family friend is in isolation because she worked in the same office as a man who recently died of Covid.
As for the abortion debate and the constitutionality of this action, I don’t even know what to think about it. Seems like there is so many more urgent things to focus on now. What could be done now to keep abortion clinics open when other elective surgery clinics are shut? It would take a lawsuit, by the time the court cases are settled, the women will probably have given birth.
I recall a story told by my mother’s friend who was caught by Russian troops in Hungary. She was raped by multiple soldiers and became pregnant. Her sister tried desperately to find her someone who would do an abortion. She had the abortion but almost died and wasn’t able to have any more children.
In times of emergency, things we count on to work in society, don’t. People learned to deal with it in order to survive, or because they just had no choice
The Constitution does not grant a right to elective homicide, does not indulge diversity, does not contain a principle of political congruence, and does not discriminate by color, sex, gender, etc. That rite was rediscovered contrary to Constitutional black letter law, with the establishment of the Progressive Church, Twilight faith, Pro-Choice religion(s), and proliferation of liberal ideology.
Women, and men, will learn that with liberty comes responsibility, and the wicked solution, the fifth choice, Pro-Choice, is a poorly conceived remedy. Planned Parenthood et al will have to restructure their corporations, close the abortion chambers, the Mengele clinics, and find novel sources of revenue, excluding selective-child and cannibalized-child. Ironically, the social contagion spread by media and social platforms may serve to tamp down the curve, and give women, and people generally, an opportunity to lose their Pro-Choice religion.
Is plastic surgery banned? I don't know if we can survive the virus without overstuffed cantaloupes pushing bravely forward into the Ohio night.
Could of swore they invented birth control back in the 60-70s. Keep your damn legs closed and don’t kill babies, new rules CHINA virus. WTF
I recall a story told by my mother’s friend who was caught by Russian troops in Hungary. She was raped by multiple soldiers and became pregnant. Her sister tried desperately to find her someone who would do an abortion. She had the abortion but almost died...
I respect anyone who hated the Russians that bad, but why not just whelp the brat then drown it in a bucket? Nobody was looking but them and God.
Ah, yes, the Roe Wars...Single-issue voting makes for a bad republic. Trump could stop CV-19, cure cancer, save the stock market, help the economy rebound, make everywhere as peaceful as Pleasantville...
But if he weighs-in against Roe, Cruel Neutrality becomes Imma Go for Creepy/Sleepy/Sloppy Joe
You're not born with foolish beliefs; it takes you years to acquire them.
You mean like believing that being an atheist asshole constantly attacking and belittling people's religious beliefs makes the world a better place?
Complications may arise in child birth and require medical procedures, but childbirth in of itself is not a medical procedure. That's why women birth in hospitals/nearby birth centers, because it's hard to call and wait for an ambulance if something occurs to save the mom and baby that needs immediate attention. Childbirth is natural- if all is going well doctors and nurses do not intervene. They just watch, monitor, and catch the baby. Women's bodies are designed to carry pregnancies and birth babies.
Point being is that you can not compare childbirth to abortion. Being pregnant and having babies is 'normal' and 'healthy', yes complications may occur and in the US we don't do enough to lower the rate of c-sections. We're double the necessary rate.
You mean like believing that being an atheist asshole constantly attacking and belittling people's religious beliefs makes the world a better place?
Yes, it's called education. Religious beliefs are foolish beliefs, by definition: if they weren't foolish they'd be called "rational" rather than religious.
It's not different than belittling peoples' beliefs in the wonderfulness of communism or astrology.
An abortion happens NOW. Our need to conserve resources is NOW. The birth occurs LATER. We have 150,000 years of history birthing babies without consuming medical resources. We have zero history of abortions not requiring medical attention.
This decision is applying to all sorts of people who want to have their procedure, not just pregnant women.
D&E, or Baby Valentina?
How is it even possible to not notice the small person not being murdered?
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