"Dubbed by Trump as the 'deal of the century,' the plan sets a number of benchmarks for Palestinians to reach in order to achieve statehood. The benchmarks include fighting terrorism, increasing free speech, and other reforms... 'I was not elected to do small things or shy away from big problems,' Trump said.... The proposal would also give Palestinians more land by offering land swaps south of Gaza. The future state would have to be demilitarized.... The plan was three years in the making and spearheaded by Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner. Palestinians have preemptively rejected the proposal, with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas calling Trump a 'dog.'"
The Washington Examiner reports.
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170 comments:
Marshall Plan but I’ll bet it won’t be paid back.
Now what will Zerope put into the kitty?
'I was not elected to do small things or shy away from big problems,' Trump said.
Grin
The problem has always been that the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
No, No, No, not. another President who thinks it’s our fucking job to bring peace to the Middle East.
I thought Trump might be different.
We are going for difficult days, and we are beginning to bear the consequences of the refusal.
The cash is drying up. They will be left behind.
If this Trump plan works I think we can all expect the Nobel Committee to present Michelle Obama with her first Peace Prize.
And LLR-lefty Chuck will the first to lead the cheers for the likely 2020 democrat nominee post-brokered convention.
Palestinians won't be happy until the Jews Suicide themselves.
This is a pointless exercise since there is zero chance the Palestinians would ever accept it, or even actually negotiate an acceptable plan to both sides. This is just what a President seems to be required to do at some point in his time in office- come up with a Palestinian/Israeli Peace Proposal.
He's just a dog and not a "pig-dog"?
There's room for compromise!
The Palestinians and Trump couldn't be further apart.
So any movement will be 'closer'.
The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. The basic problem is that Palestinians don't want peace or a Palestinian homeland, they want to destroy Israel.
There will be a wall between Israel and the Palestinian state. And Mexico will pay for the wall.
Yancey: "This is a pointless exercise since there is zero chance the Palestinians would ever accept it, or even actually negotiate an acceptable plan to both sides."
Actually, the apparent "pointless-ness" of this exercise might itself be the actual point of the exercise.
Lets work thru on the assumption this is indeed "pointless" and will fail. What then?
Lets take just one aspect of the plan: This is the plan that would halt Israeli development of new settlements in the West Bank and Israel is ALWAYS being criticized for settlement building.
Well, if this terrific plan "fails", it just might be used as justification for Israel to accelerate settlement building and full development of the West Bank in anticipation of formal absorption of the West Bank into the state of Israel.
That would be my thinking anyway.
And even better, Trump has captured the public approval of this plan from Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan, so where does that leave the Arabs in Israel?
Rock and hard place.
So for 3 years Kushner was not talking to the Palestinians? Seems like an oversight.
Unless it was pre-agreed that his father-in-law would be called a dog, just to get that part over with.
It seems to be a part of Trump's negotiating style to offer up a seemingly reasonable compromise that he knows the other side won't accept. We'll see how this plays out.
Well, this is...disappointing. I thought Trump was cannier than this.
There can be no peace as long as one side doesn't want peace. And the Palestinians have made it clear for decades that nothing short of the total destruction of Israel will satisfy them. They've been offered everything they (claim to) want, short of that--and turned up their noses at it.
Support Israel. Side with Israel. But otherwise stay out of it, and stay the hell out of any proposed "peace plan" for the middle east.
As with any proposed ME peace plan, I'll believe it when there's a permanent end to the violence.
The deal will not be accepted or negotiated on. But it is worthwhile proposing the deal, just to remind people of the refusal to accept or negotiate. In supporting Israel, we always have to the tendency of the left in in the US and in Europe to believe that the Palestinians are pure victims and the Israelis pure oppressors. It has to be answered and refuted with a proposed deal every so many years.
...with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas calling Trump a 'dog.'"
Ah, negotiations have begun.
Whatever. The burning question here is where is the country of Palestine on a map? I bet President Trump couldn't even find it.
LLR-lefty Chuck: "There will be a wall between Israel and the Palestinian state."
LOL
Number 1: There is NO "Palestinian state" (another real "tell" that LLR-lefty Chuck only speaks the language of leftism)
Number 2: There are MULTIPLE walls between Israel and the Arab "controlled" areas (which are extremely effective)
Israel's border walls: A case study for Trump’s mantra
"Israelis in large part view the American leader's goal of curbing illegal immigration as rational and necessary"
What Israel's Border Wall Experience Tells Us
"Look first at Israel’s 290-mile border with the West Bank, where the main goals are stopping terrorism and deterring entry of illegal labor. The barrier includes razor wire, electronic intrusion-detection fences, anti-vehicle ditches, footprint detection technology, aerial surveillance, and more. In urban areas, there are true walls more than 25 feet high, with cameras, listening devices, and other sensors. Control rooms monitor activity 24/7, and rapid-response teams deploy against every incursion. All this is similar to the purposes and plans for the U.S. wall.
How effective has the West Bank barrier been? Attacks and resulting casualties fell 80 percent almost instantly after the wall went up, according to Israel’s Foreign Ministry. Illegal labor entry dropped comparably, even as legal movement of people and goods through checkpoints remained robust."
Laughing Fox: "The deal will not be accepted or negotiated on. But it is worthwhile proposing the deal, just to remind people of the refusal to accept or negotiate. In supporting Israel, we always have to the tendency of the left in in the US and in Europe to believe that the Palestinians are pure victims and the Israelis pure oppressors. It has to be answered and refuted with a proposed deal every so many years."
Exactly.
No one actually believes the members of LLR-lefty Chuck's imaginary "Palestinian State" will ever agree to any deal that does not include force marching every jewish man, woman and child into the sea.
But another refusal by LLR-lefty Chuck's islamist allies will simply provide the opportunity for Israel to accelerate the actions needed for longer term security.
Calling an American man a dog is a compliment. I'm sure that was the intent.
The Palestinians committed corporate suicide when they split between Fatah & Hamas. All the Sunni Arab states told Hamas that they considered Fatah to be the legitimate leadership of the Palestinians, and that they would not bankroll Fatah. Fatah then went looking for sponsors & found Iran, who ardently desired a client state that bordered Israel & Egypt.
From the moment they became clients of Shi'te Iran, Hamas became anathema to all the Sunni states. From that point on, the die was cast, and everyone could see that the Palestinians were a useless cause.
The Arab & Israelis are working out their differences in the face of attempted Iranian regional hegemony. The European Left love the Palestinians, but that's thin gruel, as the Left loses power in Europe, too. The Americans have always leaned heavily towards the Israelis, and due to cultural issues, probably always will. If I were the Palestinians, I'd take whatever deal the Americans & Europeans could cobble together, because their time is running out.
My worry would be that the minute that the Democrats retook the White House, they would walk away from the deal, because it was Trump’s, and most of them are terrorist loving scum anyway. Leaving the Palestinians with a country, and the Israelis with less of one, but renewed security issues.
Part of the proposal is for the U.S. to infuse the new Palestinian state with "about $50 billion to help with economic development." That's $20,000 per person. Reparations?
The proposal also includes a tunnel connecting the West Bank to Gaza, a tunnel across a desert. Essentially, it's an underground border wall and ceiling. I'm going to guess the cost will be $50 billion.
Not even The Donald can resolve this problem. And I wish we would all give it up. Keep arming Israel and let them fight off the dogs.
$20,000 per person is per Palestinian resident. Per U.S. person it is $150.
Bruce Hayden : "My worry would be that the minute that the Democrats retook the White House, they would walk away from the deal, because it was Trump’s, and most of them are terrorist loving scum anyway. Leaving the Palestinians with a country, and the Israelis with less of one, but renewed security issues."
Here's how UK Telegraph summarizes it: "Donald Trump laid out a sweeping plan to give Israel permanent control over Jerusalem and large swathes of the occupied West Bank on Tuesday while offering the Palestinians only the possibility of a future state on fragments of the land they hoped for."
This is why I'm okay with it thus far.
Both Miss Cleo and Carnac the Magnificent have looked into their respective crystals balls and have similarly concluded: The Muzzies will only accept a "peace deal" which allows them to kill all the Jews.
Has Everyone noticed how alike the DNC and the PLO are?
BleachBit-and-Hammers said...
Palestinians won't be happy until the Jews have been Suicided.
fixed it for you BB&H
Arabs are publicly backing the plan. That is the big difference. If or more likely when, the Palestinians blow it, it gives the Arab states backing the plan an out when it comes to supporting the Palestinians. This is the real goal for both Israel and the Arab States backing the plan and an out for the US as well in time.
Ah well, if Trump's a dog, Mahmoud Abbas is a mutt of uncertain pedigree. Now that folks have gotten the name calling out of the way, is there any likelihood that the Palestines will give this serious consideration? Well the chances are Slim and None, and Slim just left town.
They is no deal so far and this deal will be difficult to achieve as long as the West Bank stands in present form.
There will be peace in Palestine when the Jews and "Arabs" there decide they love their children more than they hate each other, and not before.
Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas calling Trump a 'dog.'"
calling the guy who proposes to send you $50B a dog is a showy PR stunt.
calling the guy who currently sends you $500M a dog may be ballsy but terminal.
Trump holds grudges. Abbas would not survive losing that $500M
roesch/voltaire: "They is no deal so far and this deal will be difficult to achieve as long as the West Bank stands in present form."
What if your objective was to provide sufficient political cover for the annexing of the West Bank into Israel proper?
Because I believe that is the real objective since not absorbing the West Bank into Israel presents an ongoing and worsening existential threat to the State of Israel.
YoungHegelian said...
The Palestinians committed corporate suicide when they split between Fatah & Hamas. All the Sunni Arab states told Hamas that they considered Fatah to be the legitimate leadership of the Palestinians, and that they would not bankroll Fatah. Fatah then went looking for sponsors & found Iran, who ardently desired a client state that bordered Israel & Egypt.
perhaps it's
YoungHegelian said...
The Palestinians committed corporate suicide when they split between Fatah & Hamas. All the Sunni Arab states told Hamas that they considered Fatah to be the legitimate leadership of the Palestinians, and that they would not bankroll Hamas. Hamas then went looking for sponsors & found Iran, who ardently desired a client state that bordered Israel & Egypt.
mahmud abbas wrote his dissertation on blood libel at Moscow u, he funded munich from the plo treasury, he was a kgb asset at one point,
Francisco D said...
The problem has always been that the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
1/28/20, 11:59 AM
Trump could make better use of the money to directly pay the Arabs living there to relocate to other Arab countries. If all of Europe and America need to take in refugees, why can't the other Arab states in that area be forced to take in this group? Just empty them out, give them the cash, and let Israel have the last of that land. That (estimated) $20K per person would go a long way to giving these folks a good start in another location.
I know it won't happen, those involved think there is just too much to be gained by hanging on and forcing their people to suffer.
the last came from the mitrokhin papers, among the rejectionists you have Qatar, iran, turkey and certain of the Saudi ulema, like tariki who inspired the Pensacola shooter
Abbas doesn't want peace. He wants constant war. Same with Arafat. They just want the issue to keep their people riled up and hating Jews.
Peace would be bad for Abbas.
the arabs have pointedly not allowed the Palestinian to set down roots in their homelands, and the gulf war experience, taught the Kuwaitis and the kingdom that was a worthy decision,
but the bedu are patient, how long between mohammed's awakening, and the liquidation of the Yathrib valley, the last colony of jews on the peninsula,
If this increases Trump's popularity, and improves his chances of being re-elected, would it be impeachable?
There can be no peace as long as one side doesn't want peace. And the Palestinians have made it clear for decades that nothing short of the total destruction of Israel will satisfy them
Yes, but the Palestinian leadership has always looked fondly on cash, very large amounts of cash.
What the U.S. may provide to the Palestinian people will go directly into the PLO leadership's Swiss bank accounts, just like it was with Arafat and his cronies.
Did Trump say the Palestinians would get East Jerusalem with a US Embassy?
Leave it to the Palies to crap all over a chance to have a normal life and climb out of poverty.
This is just what a President seems to be required to do at some point in his time in office- come up with a Palestinian/Israeli Peace Proposal.
The difference is that the Sunnis are getting tired of the Palys antics. Plus, we now export oil and gas again.
This is the last offer. As Vito would say, "An offer they can't refuse." Abbas may wake up with a horse head.
like the crane plan, back in the 20, whose nephew Wilbur eveland, was the straight man, to Philby back in Beirut in the 50s,
The plan offers one large possibility - that the US can walk away from any financial assistance to the Palestinians - direct or through the UN. You don't play, you don't get paid.
Abbas is now in the 15th year of his 4 year elected term (magically extended in perpetuity by his buddies they claim in an "emergency". Hamas still runs Gaza in its competition to outdo Venezuela and Zimbabwe as the worst places on Earth. The two "sides" are the leeches competing over the Palestinian money spigot - and they don't need any stinking "peace plan" to cut off the gravy train. After all, Arafat only managed to steal a few hundred million - they can do better!
Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas calling Trump a 'dog.'"
I'm guessing that was affectionately preceded by "sly old."
________________
Many thanks to شركة مصر اكسبريس لنقل الاثاث.
Next time I am lifting furniture in Egypt I will definitely rent a winch from you.
"The benchmarks include fighting terrorism" Sounds good to me. Decide. You are out of the terrorism business and help stamp them out, or the US will back Israel doing whatever it thinks it needs to do against your allies the terrorists.
I'm good either way.
Let Zerope fund them.
Kimmie should be popping his head out soon. The attention is off him. This is a bigger deal.
Oohhh I hope the money comes out of our UN budget. Cut out the middleman.
Like Drago, I can see that this deal is perfect. Shocking that it was completed in only three years. But, that's what ya get with the art of the deal expert running the show.
Still, it does need a more accurate name:'Deal of the mega-annum' = perfecter.
IMHO.
Yeah, but what did Abbas say in Arabic?
If calling DJT a dotard means you can go ahead w/ nuke building. And, jabbering about death to America means you can start ramping up nuke material accumulation. Does calling DJT a dog mean you get nukes, too?
"They is no deal so far and this deal will be difficult to achieve as long as the West Bank stands in present form."
Another stunning, brilliant insight as always.
Excuse for Knesset to quickly vote annexation of all the occupied territories in the Trump proposal. One issue on which the two sides (in the Israeli election) unlikely to disagree much.
It's a cynical PR trial balloon political ploy quid quo pro! Right after Netanyahu's visit!
It's too little too late --the longer the Pals have indulged their narcissism (and had it encouraged and subsidized by others) the more rejectionist they have become.
And as has already been noted, it's certain sure that any funds to the Pals will be diverted by their indigenous swamp-dwellers.
Narr
It's almost like there's something wrong with those people, you know?
You can see how many on the left are most upset about the impact of this proposal and negotiation on the dems/LLR 2020 "nazi!!" Accusation campaign strategy.
Note: Trump mentioned 2 things specifically that I thought stood out:
1) An undivided Jerusalem as the capital of Israel
2) An interesting comment by Trump regarding the "possibility" that this deal will probably be their last chance at a deal for a long time, if not forever
Of course, its always possible a dem/LLR might get elected and return to sticking knives into the back of Israel so it will be important for Israel to move with alacrity.
How does this deal remove the current leadership from Gaza and the Occupied Territories?
Because those assholes are a major impediment to peace.
How does this deal correct decades of "Death to Israel!" indoctrination of the Palestinian people? Because that madness is ingrained pretty deep at this point.
How does this deal avoid payment followed by reversion to the norm of "Death to Israel!"?
Because that has always, always, always happened before now.
It sure was nice seeing the Israeli Prime Minister treated with respect and courtesy instead of the way LLR-lefty Chuck's "magnificent" obama treated him.
Which is worse...a "dog," or "human scum?"
This is impeachable, right?
You can't reform a system without somehow making everybody who's getting a payoff out of the old system get more under the new system.
They're paid off in proportion to how much trouble they can cause the current leadership, and if you stop paying them off their best move is to cause trouble.
The play has to take that dynamic into account.
No good just saying they have to be nice. They won't be. It would be good for the citizens but not good for the people who could cause trouble, who are doing fine today.
So, Jordan is in the news again, but Jordan remembers the "Palestinians", and the quid pro Bo with Iran. Another hard problem, with a wicked solution?
In addition, Arabs don't keep agreements. It's cultural.
It sounds like Trump already has the Sunni countries lined up behind him. If they put pressure on, including stopping financial aid, the Palestinians may not have a choice.
rhhardin said... [hush][hide comment]
In addition, Arabs don't keep agreements. It's cultural.
We do, until we change administrations. "We came, we saw, he died."
Maybe theyll learn their lesson
https://twitter.com/EVKontorovich/status/1222247526830682118
There will never be a two-state solution, becuase there is only one group capable of having a state. The others couldn't keep it if they had it, and if they did have one, they would use it as a weapon and by necessity, it would be destroyed. We really should give up this fantasy of a Palestinian state, even if they don't.
Disappointing. Obsolete. Unimaginative. Oblivious. The so-called 'two-state solution' has been a dead-letter concept in Israel for years now. It lives on only at the Church of Foggy Bottom, where the President's son-in-law, Meathead, evidently has been worshiping...
Once the Palestinians have a state there's no way to keep it de-militarized. And here's another thing: The Brits took 80% of their Mandate and created Trans-Jordan (Trans-pipeline,' some called it) for the Hashemi family, formerly the Sharifs of Mecca, their clients in Lawrence of Arabia days before the Saudi family threw them out of the Hijaz. So which land exactly does Meathead now propose Jordan contribute to the new Palestine?...
Remember 2005 when Israel's Benedict Arnold, Ariel Sharon, gave a fifth of their coastline to their blood enemies? What was the return on that? The Palestinians did what they always do, pocketed the concession and demanded more. Used it to launch incendiary balloons into Israel to burn crops and forests...
I hate to say anything negative about the Trump administration, but to have come up with this after three years is appalling...
Deal offered. Palestinians reject it. The next logical step is to withhold the financial aid. Their hatred should stop being our problem.
The fact that it has "benchmarks," for the Palestinians automatically means the do nothing except hate Jews Palestinians will reject it.
the guardian hates it, and they have internalized self hate, so ipsofacto it's good,
This dance of the veils has grown tiresome. Time for Israel to annex the West Bank and all of the Jerusalem and be done with it. They won this land in conquest, in a war started by their enemies. The population that doesn't like it has to move on to a muslim state someplace.
The Palestinian rejection of this "final offer" will be the excuse to finally make this a reality. I can't wait for the Israelis to get started on the project.
The future state would have to be demilitarized.... The plan was three years in the making and spearheaded by Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner. Palestinians have preemptively rejected the proposal
Well, yeah. Trump knew this and this is just a window-dressing opportunity and to give some backhanded import to Kushner's role in the adminiatration.
Palestinians don’t want peace. Their so-called leaders enjoy and profit from the money sent their way and will do what they can to maintain the status quo. Energy and money pissed away.
that is Netanyahu's promise during the campaign, but that doesn't solve the problem,
There will never be a two-state solution
There was a two-state solution: Jordan, the second state, similar to "immigration reform" to Europe, America, etc. is today, but closer in proximity. However, unlike the establishment of Kosovo, and like the absence of a Kurdovo, there will not be an autonomous "Palestinian" state. Also, unlike Europe, America, etc., immigration reform, by sheer numbers, principled misalignment, and precedent, in Israel, risks forcing a genocide (a la China/Tibet).
Blogger شركة مصر اكسبريس لنقل الاثاث said...
If I understood your question, you ALWAYS want to lift with your legs and lessen the strain on your back
Or in your language, 'iidha fahimt sualik , fa'ant turid daymana rafae saqik watakhfif aldaght ealaa zahrak
Francisco D said...
The problem has always been that the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
Well, that, and I don't believe that Palestinian mothers have yet learned to love their children more than they hate Israelis.
My thought? The deal is a last chance (as long as Trump remains POTUS). Reject it? Realpolitik take over. The Arab states that have indicated they support the deal? They've written the Palestinians off. Israel is free to do what they want if the deal is rejected. The important work was done- getting the other Arab states to write off the Palestinians. Honestly, they're not much liked by the other Arabs anyway. Nothing but a source of trouble for anyone who has ever ruled over the area since, well, forever. The Romans. the Ottomans, everyone.
A bit of truth in advertising...
“He tried to sell us on the idea that it wouldn’t really be a Palestinian state,” said Yesha settlement umbrella council head David Elhayani, who is also Jordan Valley Regional Council chairman.
A settler leader who spoke to The Times of Israel last week said the so-called Deal of the Century would endorse Israeli sovereignty over all West Bank settlements.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/settler-leaders-on-trip-to-dc-losing-sleep-over-horrible-trump-deal/
I hate to say anything negative about the Trump administration, but to have come up with this after three years is appalling...
Doesn't sound like it.
Next step is to cut off aid. Get the UN of of the "camps" that have been there 80 years.
Admiral Inga (cut and paste):
"A settler leader who spoke to The Times of Israel last week said the so-called Deal of the Century would endorse Israeli sovereignty over all West Bank settlements.”
What kind of anti-semitic nazi Literal Hitler would give so much to the Israelis?!
That darn Trump keeps working effectively with the jews and its harming democrat 2020 election strategy!!!
Quick clarification request: Awhile back Admiral Inga was cackling about Netanyahu's supposed defeat and yet today it was that very same Netanyahu standing at the podium as Prime Minister.
Inga, any chance you can take a moment to use your clearly highly developed mind-reading skills to tell us how Netanyahu managed to pull that off?
LOL
"Chuck said...
There will be a wall between Israel and the Palestinian state. And Mexico will pay for the wall."
There is a wall between Chuck and intelligence. And Chuck will bang his head against that wall without every figuring out that the wall is there. Because nothing can knock sense into Chuck.
Peace for our time.
Trump knew this and this is just a window-dressing opportunity and to give some backhanded import to Kushner's role in the administration.
Or just keep him occupied and out of trouble.
He doesn't seem to have political ambitions of his own. Has anyone heard him speak?
I have and will continue believe in a unified Korea before I believe a plan like this will be accepted by the critical parties in the Middle East. Its a deal all right, but nobody will take it.
Hey, why didn't anybody ever think of bribing the Palestinians to make peace before? What blindingly brilliant, out-of-the-box thinking! Trump and Jared really are geniuses! This will solve everything!
The tunnel is a bad and expensive idea. Better to have a walled Pali corridor with Israeli tunnels crossing under it.
Edward v111 hold my beer
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/inshallah-prince-charles-praises-islamic-culture-and-prays-in-arabic-for-middle-east-peace
Ralph L said...
Trump knew this and this is just a window-dressing opportunity and to give some backhanded import to Kushner's role in the administration.
Yep, he should have just gotten him a high paying position on the board of one of an European energy company, amiright?
The Palestinians will never be prepared for peace and it's a waste of time and effort attempting to bargain or negotiate with them.
@gospace "My thought? The deal is a last chance (as long as Trump remains POTUS). Reject it? Realpolitik take over. The Arab states that have indicated they support the deal? They've written the Palestinians off. Israel is free to do what they want if the deal is rejected. The important work was done- getting the other Arab states to write off the Palestinians."
Exactly. The Israeli parties now favor annexation of the settler areas. Refuse and they'll just do it.
I’m sorry. Just can’t wait for this evening. It’s too funny. I guess there weren’t enough pens?
President Donald Trump did not invite House Democrats to Wednesday’s signing ceremony of the United States–Mexico–Canada Agreement (USMCA) at the White House, said the office of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA). “The White House hasn’t invite House Democrats to their USMCA signing ceremony,” Pelosi spokesman Henry Connelly said in a statement Tuesday. “But we’ll be well represented in the huge changes to the original USMCA draft that Democrats wrested out of the Administration on labor, prescription drugs, environment and enforcement mechanisms.”
interesting, the original mohammed abbas, who was of the arab Aghlabid dynasty that conquered sicily, started in the arabian peninsula
In addition, Arabs don't keep agreements. It's cultural
Well you're allowed to lie to non-Muslims if it advances the interests of Islam. So if you make an agreement with a non-Muslim, you don't have to honor it.
Yancey Ward at 12:07p is right – every president is expected to come up with a “Mideast Peace Plan”. And this plan starts the ball rolling or it doesn’t. The Palestinian refugees have been a political gold mine for Arabs for seven decades. Kicking that drug doesn’t happen easily or quickly.
“Success” would be difficult. Those who could leave Palestine already have. “Success” would mean the three sides would have to start so many new efforts, committees, protocols, be accountable, all in good faith. “Success” also means current leaderships would probably need to be replaced by retirement, exile or assassination. Nah.
“Failure” is actually easier and might be a better way to start. And Drago (way to be on topic!) at 12:15p so astutely notes, it would give Israel pretty good leverage to continue its strategic plan. So “failure” is most likely, I think.
One can only hope “failure” leads Arab nations and the feckless Europeans to FINALLY require the PLA and Hamas to reciprocate for the €billions they get. "Not so many rockets please? Maybe not so obviously corrupt? No more holidays for the suicide bombers?"
And don’t forget that Iran wants to strangle any peace plan in the crib and has a megaton of influence. Peace plans are bad for Hamas and Hezbollah – their raison d’être is fighting the Enemy. OTOH, peace might be good for Assad, as long as a secret codicil keeps him in power.
when barak offered a very generous deal to the Palestinians, after nearly 6 years of negotiating, they turned it down, and they had their half Egyptian puppet, Robert malley, hamas fanboi as well as that of the Algerian islamists, an associate of likeminded jamal khashoggi to justify it, malley would form the international crisis group, and was one of the promoters of the iran deal,
Per narciso: Prince Charles Praises Islamic Culture
Charles is such a dork. I hope he never becomes king.
A settler leader who spoke to The Times of Israel last week said the so-called Deal of the Century would endorse Israeli sovereignty over all West Bank settlements.”
This is a mystery to Admiral Inga? Who did she think would have sovereignty over Israeli settlements?
The mind boggles at the idiocy.
...with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas calling Trump a 'dog.'
"You Scallywag!"
The Palestinian refugees have been a political gold mine for Arabs for seven decades. Kicking that drug doesn’t happen easily or quickly.
I think that was back when Sunnis had no worries about Iran and Shiites. Also, they were kings of the oil hill.
Now, the US is off fracking and Israel has a huge gas field. Iran is droning the Saudi oil refineries.
Palestinians are excess baggage except for the UN professional parasites who haven't figured out there is a new sheriff in town.
Agree with Michael K. on the camps.
If Trump can stop the Palestinian refugee scam that would be huge.
And address the issue of Palestinians in Lebanon and Syria. They are treated as third class citizens, but they are not even citizens.
Gaza should just be given to the Egyptians to run.
And Jordan the West Bank.
But both countries are smart enough not to take on the headaches.
Charles is such a dork. I hope he never becomes king.
King of Rotherham
Gaza should just be given to the Egyptians to run.
You might have forgotten that they had it at one time. Mort Sahl referred to it as World War 2.3. Not even the Egyptians are that dumb.
"calling the guy who proposes to send you $50B a dog is a showy PR stunt.
calling the guy who currently sends you $500M a dog may be ballsy but terminal.
Trump holds grudges."
Oh, heavens no. Even the prickliest of Boomers feels nothing but amusement at lameass insults from hanky-heads, Norks, Chicoms, and Fido-Cubans. It's the Boomer equivalent of watching silent movie villians twirling their mustaches. Expected and amusing and a subtle form of racism that all Americans, Left and Right, can enjoy.
Donald is a joker (he's a bird)
A very funny joker (he's a bird)
But when he jokes with Abbas (he's a dog)
His jokin' ain't so funny (what a dog)
Donald is a joker that's a'tryin' to mess with Abbas (he's a bird dog)
I for one, am glad that Trump is doing this. There is no downside. If the Palestinians do not hold up on their end of the deal, Trump can just give them the Presidential Big Finger. At least he tried.
“Not even the Egyptians are that dumb.”
I recall Israel offered Gaza to the Egyptians when they returned the Sinai and Egypt said “No, thanks.”
even back in the day
https://www.bible-history.com/maps/romanempire/Gaza.html
Palestinians have preemptively rejected the proposal, with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas calling Trump a 'dog.'"
So you’re saying it has a chance?
The fact that it calls for a Palestinian capital within Jerusalem is pretty huge. It seems off. I can't imagine Israel giving any part of Jerusalem up (yes, they allow Jordanian security to run the temple mount and mosque, but Israel controls the rest of the city). So I wonder if the report of "East Jerusalem" Palestinian capital is really Ramallah? That would be more likely. I can't imagine giving up control of the mount of Olives, a 3000year old Jewish cemetery, but if they are prepared to give up claim to the temple mount itself, then maybe they would partition off an eastern part of the city?
Either way, if the Palestinians can get behind this within a generation their country could become a massive resort community. There are a lot of undeveloped beaches along the Gaza strip. Europeans use Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, and Tunisia as their beach holidays.
If the Palestinians could stop worrying about shooting at Israel to "get what's theirs" they could have a massive economy (compared to now) within a generation. And if they still hate Israel, they'd be much better off doing something about it with an economy that would rival Israel's.
The only downside is personal pride. I would half assume Israel hopes they don't go for this solution. Within 3 generations, Israel could be vastly outnumbered by people who not only hate them, but have more resources on and within their borders.
The fact that it calls for a Palestinian capital within Jerusalem is pretty huge. It seems off. I can't imagine Israel giving any part of Jerusalem up (yes, they allow Jordanian security to run the temple mount and mosque, but Israel controls the rest of the city). So I wonder if the report of "East Jerusalem" Palestinian capital is really Ramallah? That would be more likely. I can't imagine giving up control of the mount of Olives, a 3000year old Jewish cemetery, but if they are prepared to give up claim to the temple mount itself, then maybe they would partition off an eastern part of the city?
Either way, if the Palestinians can get behind this within a generation their country could become a massive resort community. There are a lot of undeveloped beaches along the Gaza strip. Europeans use Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, and Tunisia as their beach holidays.
If the Palestinians could stop worrying about shooting at Israel to "get what's theirs" they could have a massive economy (compared to now) within a generation. And if they still hate Israel, they'd be much better off doing something about it with an economy that would rival Israel's.
The only downside is personal pride. I would half assume Israel hopes they don't go for this solution. Within 3 generations, Israel could be vastly outnumbered by people who not only hate them, but have more resources on and within their borders.
except Netanyahu did suspend building for nearly a year, frankly though would we suspend building back in the 19th century territory,
https://twitter.com/jsolomonReports/status/1222275513923796993
A bit of Madison history:
In 1974 the music school at the University of Wisconsin formed an ensemble called the New Hyperion Oriental Foxtrot Orchestra. Their repertoire included a lot of old charts that Skitch Henderson had donated to the music library. (Skitch got into trouble with the IRS for trying to deduct a fictional assessed value, and had to go away as a guest of the Feds for a while.) One afternoon the group set up shop in the Rathskellar to play a few numbers. One of them was this: Palesteena the lyric of which was delivered with a pronounced Yiddish accent. Eyebrows were raised. Protests were lodged. Snowflakery is nothing new.
“ There is a wall between Chuck and intelligence. And Chuck will bang his head against that wall without every figuring out that the wall is there. Because nothing can knock sense into Chuck.”
Mr. Chuck... tear down that wall! You can do it!
Aside from the merits of the proposed plan, the image Trump is projecting is in perfect contrast to the impeachment circus.
The President is working ... undaunted by said circus while the Democrats are chasing squirrels.
Bwaaaaa there won’t be any money. See the latest in the long line of failures Venezuela.
I agree with Yancey Ward. Obligatory meaningless proposal.
Sometimes countries lose wars and, more importantly, accept the fact that they have lost the war. Germans are in no big hurry to reclaim their ancestral lands in Konigsberg (now Kalingrad) nor Danzig (now Gdansk). They fought WWII to set right the ending of WWI. What they demonstrated conclusively in that war is that you can lose a war more conclusively and catastrophically the second time around. The Germans seem to have fared far better within their current borders than they did in the old days of Prussian resolve and lebensraum....I wonder by what process the Palestinians will come to the realization that they lost the war and the smart move might be to get on with their lives.
Only time will tell, William.
I get the two state part. Obviously, the Jews would be brutalized under Palestinian majority rule, so a single state is out. But I still don't get why Trump is even trying? It's not like this bullsh*t deal is going to be put to a public referendum. The Palestinian Authority has refused to hold elections since 2006 and it's not going to start now...
Hagar said...
There will be peace in Palestine when the Jews and "Arabs" there decide they love their children more than they hate each other, and not before.
The Israelis lover their children, and therefore hate the Palestinian terrorists who want to murder every Israeli child.
The Palestinians hate the Israelis more than they love their children, which is why the Palestinians keep on sending their kids off to die in terrorist attacks
So, Hagar, are you ignorant, stupid, or just really dishonest?
well show us the contrary evidence, the Palestinians chose the germans, the soviets saddam, and most recently Qatar and iran,
Spiros: "The Palestinian Authority has refused to hold elections since 2006 and it's not going to start now..."
Precisely.
But I still don't get why Trump is even trying? It's not like this bullsh*t deal is going to be put to a public referendum.
Spiros,
Every POTUS has to do this. It's about the appearance of statesmanship.
The question is whether Trump is just playing the game or whether he has either the skills to the power to get this done.
I don't know the answer, but I suspect that the situation is better than it ever has been. Sorry to be cynical, but a lot depends on how much we have to bribe PLO leaders.
Francisco D nailed it on the third comment. Seconded.
No one really cares. The world has moved on.
Palestinian leadership has the best of both worlds right now.
Ability to scam for money the UN and donors for multi generation Palestinian Refugees in camps. Population counts may be another scam.
And blame their wrongs on the Israelis and US in Arabic, while talking Peace in English.
And the Palestinian leadership knows they would be strung up from the nearest street light, if they made peace.
So why should the Palestinian leadership change the status quo?
This Palestinian leadership, along with many others, have ignored what has been done to the Palestinians in Lebanon and Syria.
Gaza was where the Egyptian army got stopped in 1949, it was ruled by them from 1949 to 1967.
Gaza is actually doing better than Egypt, economically, due to all the aid from what I read.
Trump has demolished a lot of other archaic political structures, so I would not be surprised if he does something similar to the the Middle East Gordian Knot, that is the Palestinians issue. I'm not sure he can make it worse.
It would be interesting to see a chronological list of what the Palestinians have been offered over the years. Is it getting better or worse?
Likely he is offering them the carrot, and if they don't accept it, he will actually follow up with the stick.
He actually followed through on the embassy move, when the previous presidents just went through the motions on it.
I'm in the line saying, "this is the obligatory pointless try" - but does Trump do obligatory pointless? I guess so. The Palestinians say, no. Then what? As Iran's Khamenei said to Trump, "You can't do anything."
Althouse taught all of us who need to know about reverse psychology.
I don't think it is fair to have my advantage, so I don't exploit it.
Fly lands on Hillary and Althouse can't put two and two toghether.
I used to be as pro Palestinian as you can be. I visited the PLO consulate in London when I was representing Jordan at an international M.U.N. in my senior year of high school.* I believed in a two state solution, but the Israelis were definitely the bad guys. This continued in college, where I actually wrote for an Arab-American magazine offering Arab friendly voting advice. The Intifada changed all of that. Then Arafat's exposed corruption. Today I am one of the biggest supporters of Israel there is. You know why? Guess which country in the Middle East provides the highest standard of living for Arabs? Guess which country in the Middle east gives the most democratic power to its Arab citizens? Of course it is Israel.
* By the way, I "solved" the Israel-Palestine problem at that M.U.N.. In fact Jordan was the head of the Security Council at that time, so I could ram it through. Jerusalem became an international city, open to all three faiths. It was governed and policed by the Swiss guard, like the Vatican. It was a two state solution based on the 1967 borders, with some land swapping to connect the West Bank and Gaza. I actually got the Israeli and the PLO delegates to sign off on it. It passed the Security Council, but never came up in the General Assembly, mostly because I led a walk out.
Now that Iran has less flexibility, let's wait and see how the PLO et al reorganize. The Palestinian people are probably ready for a new regime. Iran, too.
I'm in the line saying, "this is the obligatory pointless try" - but does Trump do obligatory pointless? I guess so. The Palestinians say, no. Then what? As Iran's Khamenei said to Trump, "You can't do anything."
Except stop sending them money every month.
Maybe, like so many others, smart and dumb, Althouse thinks Trump's dad prevented fly(')s from landing on Trump and not Hillary?
Just imagine Althouse had she had Trump's dad, she'd not only be a billionaire, but more too, because it was all done via giving back.
"Trump couldn't find Palestine on a map even if there was a picture of a lavish building fit for a king and a German beer mug on it."
Gahrie: "Except stop sending them money every month."
Correct.
The Europeans can pick up the slack if they'd like.
Spoiler: They wont.
The Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza think things are bad now? Just wait till Trump turns off the cash spigot (which he is clearly dying to do I believe).
Trump would be happy to go Full Iran Policy on the Arabs.
Austin cunts think Trump and Hillary are the same.
This is what we deal with.
But deal we shall. And when that damned levy breaks, make sure you did to bring everyone to the side of justice.
link text deal
The greatest man ever, save Jesus, Donald Trump, won't let just any deal go down.
Many will justly lose as it should be. Their deals weren't just.
Donald's were.
As you are here.
never came up in the General Assembly, mostly because I led a walk out.
Did you learn to self-sabotage from the Palestinians?
The Xinity bibically bust5ng balls oaky.
Easier to decipher narciso.
Why not just read the bible is a fair question.
Because your proggie comrades will murder us tomorrow if you Seth Rich.
How could the ultra-ignorant survive if they believed Christians felt Seth Rich went to Heaven because he accepted Jesus?
Time means nothing to my argument.
"But under the plan, those Palestinians would find themselves virtually encircled by an expanded Israel and living within convoluted borders reminiscent of a gerrymandered congressional district. The proposal also envisions a tunnel connecting Gaza to the West Bank." As I stated earlier the struggle over the West Bank will be a problem.
Well that is the point, guild, grace will be offered in full measure till the time of His return, i noted where gaza appears im the biblical chronicle
The time forThe deal Lebowsky beyond link text is naught.
"It seems you have forgotten our little deal Lebowski."
"What?"
"There was no girl, there was no deal"
What? Hugh?
Hugh?
Dude!
There never was an impeachment!
Bring it, nihilists!
Did you learn to self-sabotage from the Palestinians?
1) There was no guarantee that my resolution would come up.
2) My delegation was awarded best delegation status.
"Ja. It seems you have forgotten our little deal, Lebowski.
You don't have the fucking girl, dipshit. We know you never did.
Are these the Nazis, Walter?
No, Donny. These men are nihilists. There's nothing to be afraid of.
We don't care. We still want the money, Lebowski, or we fuck you up.
Fuck you. Fuck the three of you.
No. Without a hostage, there is no ransom. That's what ransom is. Those are the fucking rules.
His girlfriend gave up her toe.
She thought we could get one million dollars.
It's not fair.
Fair? Who's the fucking nihilists around here, you bunch of fucking crybabies?"
https://movie-sounds.org/comedy-movie-sounds/quotes-with-sound-clips-from-the-big-lebowski/fuck-you-fuck-the-three-of-you
Sounds like spam to me, but I can't have any opinion.
"Known Unknown said...
"Trump couldn't find Palestine on a map even if there was a picture of a lavish building fit for a king and a German beer mug on it."
You couldn't find Palestine on a map, either, since it never existed except as a propaganda tool. There are no Palestinians. Most of those refugees are either Jordanian or Egyptians, with some other nationalities thrown in. The "Palestinian refugees" were never repatriated after the 67 and 73 wars, because it served Arab propaganda to let them remain in the camps.
"Palestinians have preemptively rejected the proposal, with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas calling Trump a 'dog.'"
Bit off more than he could chew.
The Palis NEVER miss a chance to blow an opportunity. Is there any Pali who hasn't shot his own feet off?
If the Saudi’s paid the Egyptians enough I am sure they would love to clean out a nest of snakes next to their border. No one cares about arab on arab killing (see Yemen, Syria, Iraq). So giving Gaza back to Egypt solves several problems.
Egypt could pretend they were providing border security for the palis, so Hamas would not need any weapons. That stops the rockets. With Gaza under Egyptian control there is no need for a physical connect with Gaza and the west bank. Hamas dies. A win-win-win.
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