Here's the image from 1988 of Oprah, newly thin and openly leading a celebration of herself for the achievement. Maher and Rogan say you can't do that today. It would be socially unacceptable fat-shaming.
The singer Adele recently lost a lot of weight, and Maher and Rogan talk about how people are actually criticizing her for quitting serving as a role model for people who want to feel good about being fat.
Oprah Magazine instructs its readers on the proper reaction to Adele's weight loss: "On Adele’s Weight Loss: Let's Stop Criticizing Her Body, No Matter How She Looks/Why can't we focus on how happy she looks on the beach, instead of how she looks on the beach?"
At a time when body positivity is (finally) being more widely celebrated, some folks are apparently disappointed that she changed what many women saw as a valuable representation of their own plus-size figures.... The core of the [body positivity] movement stands behind the radical idea that your worth has nothing to do with the size of your body.... So who are we to criticize Adele’s frame...? Her body belongs to her—not us.Maher was repeating a point he'd made a while back on his show — that 40,000 people a month die from fat-related illness and that it's not about how people look but the terrible health problem. He talks about the criticism he took from James Corden, and I found this background in Variety:
Maher, host of HBO’s “Real Time with Bill Maher,” joked about obesity on his show last week, saying “Fat isn’t a birth defect” and “Nobody comes out of the womb needing to buy two seats on the airplane.” He advocated: “Fat-shaming doesn’t need to end, it needs to make a comeback.”...In the podcast, Maher claims that he didn't make any jokes about fatness! Obviously, he did, even if he also has a serious purpose.
“There’s a common and insulting misconception that fat people are stupid and lazy, and we’re not,” Corden said. “We get it, we know. We know that being overweight isn’t good for us and I’ve struggled my entire life trying to manage my weight and I suck at it. I’ve had good days and bad months. I’ve basically been off and on diets since as long as I can remember and, well, this is how it’s going...".Now that I'm reading this, I think Maher, in the podcast, is quite dishonest about his own statements and Corden's. Maher may have something of a good point about the costs of fat-related health problems in a system in which we're all more or less paying for each other's health care, but he's not doing straight health policy analysis. In fact, if you did hard-nosed, truth-telling policy analysis, you wouldn't stress the 40,000-a-month death toll. Early deaths save money.
ADDED: Here's the "Real Time" routine that I think Maher was dishonest about:
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105 comments:
I shed 42 pounds over the past 8 months, and by today's standards I was fit and presentable before I lost that weight.
Did it by counting calories and increasing the length and severity of my daily workouts.
I'm 70, and I have the usual mix of low level health issues. Every one of them was worsened by carrying around the excess weight. My heart and skeleton simply couldn't carry the load.
"Flexibility is youth!" my yoga instructor often says. I'm already being repaid in increased flexibility and mobility.
What's the point of telling other people to get their act together? Self-destructive habits are tough to change. Broke up with a girlfriend over 3 years ago because she lost control over her eating habits. Couldn't change her. All I could do was to stop her from inflicting her advancing obesity and diabetes on me.
He’s not wrong.
If we are going to have public health care, we should encourage smoking,too.
20 years ag, i was still teaching a case study about phillip morris and the anti tobacco cases were raging.
In one a judge refused to allow evidence that smokers, because they tend to die young and quickly, have lower medical costs on average.
The reason for not allowing it was because it was too ghoulish.
I'm with maher on this. More, not less, fat shaming.
Especially if we are going to have public health care.
John Henry
You haven’t even fat shamed until you write a song about someone in your group who’s fat and then make them sing it.
John and Mitchy were gettin' kind of itchy
Just to leave the folk music behind
Zal and Denny workin' for a penny
Tryin' to get a fish on the line
In a coffee house Sebastian sat
And after every number they'd pass the hat
McGuinn and McGuire just a-gettin' higher
In L.A., you know where that's at
And no one's gettin' fat except Mama Cass
Zally said "Denny, you know there aren't many
Who can sing a song the way that you do, let's go south"
Denny said "Zally, golly, don't you think that I wish
I could play guitar like you"
Zal, Denny and Sebastian sat (At the Night Owl)
And after every number they'd pass the hat
McGuinn and McGuire still a-gettin higher
In L.A., you know where that's at
And no one's gettin' fat except Mama Cass
When Cass was a sophomore, planned to go to Swarthmore
But she changed her mind one day
Standin' on the turnpike, thumb out to hitchhike
"Take me to New York right away"
When Denny met Cass he gave her love bumps
Called John and Zal and that was the Mugwumps
McGuinn and McGuire couldn't get no higher
But that's what they were aimin' at
And no one's gettin' fat except Mama Cass
Mugwumps, high jumps, low slumps, big bumps
Don't you work as hard as you play
Make up, break up, everything is shake up
Guess it had to be that way
Sebastian and Zal formed the Spoonful
Michelle, John, and Denny gettin' very tuneful
McGuinn and McGuire just a-catchin' fire
In L.A., you know where that's at
And everybody's gettin' fat except Mama Cass
Di-di-di-dit dit dit di-di-di-dit, whoa
Broke, busted, disgusted, agents can't be trusted
And Mitchy wants to go to the sea
Cass can't make it, she says we'll have to fake it
We knew she'd come eventually
Greasin' on American Express cards
It's low rent, but keeping out the heat's hard
Duffy's good vibrations and our imaginations
Can't go on indefinitely
And California dreamin' is becomin' a reality
I seem to recall that in Britain's national health service there are restrictions on health services to fat people
John Henry
Of course it’s true that some people have an easier time staying thin than do others. But the basic math remains—if calories in are greater than calories out, you will gain weight. Turn that around and you will lose weight. A very few people have a glandular problem (almost all fat people simply over eat), but everyone can lose weight by watching what they eat and exercising more.
You don't even necessarily have to eat less bulk if you eat the right things and you can eat all the foods you love if you control portion sizes.
Smoking and drinking also save on health costs overall
You know Tom, you could have just excerpted the relevant verse. Brevity soul of wit, and all that.
This is battle space preparation for the idea of rationing health care. As I've always said, under our present system everyone gets treated but not everyone is covered whereas under socialized medicine everyone is covered but not everyone is treated. It seems it would be cheaper to persuade fat people with diabetic problems to stay thin rather than pay for repeated ER visits. But that simple tactic morphs into yearly wellness exams for everyone with every possibility covered including breast cancer for men. And those repeated tests for well people are extremely expensive. So then care for sick people starts being rationed to cover costs for tests for well people. And then, further down to road to health care perdition they don't treat diseases that annual tests find because you are too old. But they keep up the testing, it's a money maker.
It probably is cheaper and more effective medicine to just treat actual problems and occasionally to conduct local, specific public health campaign rather than to develop elaborate, costly, nationwide schemes of "preventive" medicine. But there are no statistics on that because that isn't how the question is being asked.
The show "My 600 lb Life” kind of makes the point that there is almost always an enabler involved. I think that this goes beyond actual 600 lb people, but for them, it’s actually almost impossible to get that fat without help because after around 400 lbs, it’s so difficult to get out of bed, somebody is almost certainly bringing you the food that’s making you gain weight. Even pizza delivery guys won’t come to your bedroom.
It’s the parents who make for a lot of fat people. Good luck shaming them, instead we shame their victims.
“ Early deaths save money.”
Not sure that’s true. I’ve read that a substantial part of medical costs are incurred in the weeks prior to death. Also, a lot of illnesses related to obesity are chronic, like type 2 diabetes. That shortens life expectancy but also incurs a lot of costs. Yes, maybe some just drop dead of a heart attack, but I’d like to see some evidence for this proposition.
Go you chicken fat GO!
Everybody who is fat knows that they're fat.
Plus. Anybody that takes health advice from a TV talk show host is an idiot.
talk to your dr. instead.
"’ve read that a substantial part of medical costs are incurred in the weeks prior to death"
But that period tends to be much shorter for drinkers/smokers
Taking responsibility for your actions is antithetical to the progressive vision for society.
If we start by asking fat poeple to be responsible for themselves, where would it end?
“talk to your dr. instead.”
Except that in my experience most doctors are still stuck on discredited ideas like the old food pyramid: Eat low-fat, whole grains, cut out red meat, etc. They’ve probably done more harm than good.
If Maher meets Moore in craft services line...
You could quit after "I think Maher... is quite dishonest" and you'd be quite correct.
@Tim "But the basic math remains—if calories in are greater than calories out, you will gain weight. Turn that around and you will lose weight." Not true, not according to modern medicine. Most people remain at about the same weight literally for decades; it isn't because they are somehow balancing their calories exactly without even trying. There are two separate systems: one handles incoming calories, another creates and burns fat. The second system has enough slack that most of the time we are doing neither and stay at the same weight.
People gain weight because the second system is turned that way; they lose weight when the second system is switched the other way. The switch depends on a lot of things, including glucose content of the blood.
I was at one weight - more-or-less slim - till I hit 40. Then I immediately began to gain weight without any change in eating habits. Same for my brother. Same for my father.
The fact that one singer lost some weight - for a while - shouldn't obscure the fact that a very small fraction of fat people are able to keep weight off long-term. Somewhere around 5%. We haven't found the right way to hack that system yet, and it works very hard to thwart us.
For those interested in monitoring with exactitude calories in and calories out, I recommend this web site - if you are desirous of and committed to losing weight, daily use will definitely result in the achievement of your goal.
Here is the web site: https://www.myfitnesspal.com
There are lots of opinions, from experts and anecdotal evidence, about what diet is best. There is a wide spread consensus among doctors and nutritionists that being overweight is unhealthful for humans.
James Corden's explanation is good insight as to why pointing out the unhealthful aspects of being overweight is understood as fat shaming. He knows he's overweight, he has been trying for years to lose weight, unsuccessfully, he feels badly about that, and Maher's shaming of him doesn't help, it might even makes Corden feel hopeless enough to quit trying to lose weight.
Maher is liar and an asshole pretending to be a dispassionate analyst, but that's been true for a long time. It's his shtick.
Here's the "Real Time" routine that I think Maher was dishonest about:
That could be any of his routines, which is why you shouldn't pay him any attention; for starters his 40K excess deaths/month isn't correct.
>The epidemiology of overweight and obesity: public health crisis or moral panic?
'fat people need to take responsibility for the health problem they, in fact, have'
(From the above article):
Except at true statistical extremes, high body mass is a very weak predictor of mortality, and may even be protective in older populations.
In particular, the claim that ‘overweight’ (BMI 25–29.9) increases mortality risk in any meaningful way is impossible to reconcile with numerous large-scale studies that have found no increase in relative risk among the so-called ‘overweight’, or have found a lower relative risk for premature mortality among this cohort than among persons of so-called ‘normal’ or ‘ideal’ [sic] weight.
Among the obese, little or no increase in relative risk for premature mortality is observed until one reaches BMIs in the upper 30s or higher.
In other words, the vast majority of people labelled ‘overweight’ and ‘obese’ according to current definitions do not in fact face any meaningful increased risk for early death.
All of you blithely going on about calories in, calories out, exercise, yada, yada have obviously not dealt with the medical system when your own body turns on you. Try getting an autoimmune thyroid disorder dx-ed and then getting appropriate meds, ongoing tests/monitoring approved by insurance. Better yet, try to get insurance to pay for a doctor who will actually do the above. An appropriate diet is absolutely not what conventional medical wisdom dictates. Dropping calorie intake does not equate to weight lost. And vigorous exercise can actually create/exacerbate autoimmune issues.
Phffttt...
Early deaths save money.
This is the second reason, WHY the governement WANTS you to smoke
The FIRST reason, is that they make taxes off of you
But, the second reason is: smokers politely DIE once they've retired
Of course, the Government feels that it has to PRETEND to appear to be against smoking
otherwise, it would come across as a Big Meanie
But, it WANTS you to smoke.
However, tobacco smoking rates Were dropping, much to the government's chagrin
THUS: The Legalization of Marijuana
In other words, the vast majority of people labelled ‘overweight’ and ‘obese’ according to current definitions do not in fact face any meaningful increased risk for early death.
Which, really, isn't the point.
That vast majority of people labeled overweight will spend their lives suffering from limited mobility, taking a handful of meds for diabetes and high blood pressure that further bloat their bodies, and will be able to do little except sit in a recliner in front of a TV.
That vast majority of people labeled overweight will spend their lives suffering from limited mobility, taking a handful of meds for diabetes and high blood pressure that further bloat their bodies, and will be able to do little except sit in a recliner in front of a TV.
So you're claiming that those conditions and activities don't contribute to early death, and may in fact cause overweight people, especially people over 65, to live longer than people who are not overweight?
So you're claiming that those conditions and activities don't contribute to early death, and may in fact cause overweight people, especially people over 65, to live longer than people who are not overweight?
I'm not claiming anything. I didn't lose 42 pounds to extend my lifespan, only to make my life now better.
My mother died recently at age 93. She loathed exercise and ate an absolutely horrible diet. Very overweight.
So, yeah, I don't think weight is necessarily an accurate predictor of mortality on an individual level.
Early deaths save money.
Unless you spend years in a Medicaid nursing home with no feet.
I dropped 60 pounds three years ago when I got my type 2 diabetes diagnosis. Have kept it off except for five pounds. Dropping the weight helped every aspect of my health including blood glucose control, lower blood pressure, less arthritis, and general well bring. Obesity doesn’t need shaming but it does need reducing. The costs are killing us, financially and physically. And it makes everyone less attractive. You don’t hear songs these days about “American Woman” and “California Girls” anymore.
Fat shaming would be legitimate, if only there was a proven, long lasting method of fat loss.
As currently stands, the vast majority of people end up fatter than before if diets are attempted, and only 0.015% manage to keep the lost weight off permanently after 5 years.
All the methods (other than stomach surgery) we have to dealing with this seemingly simple problem are quackery. Nothing works and it's been that way (and getting worse) for the past few generations, but because it's a slow process, no-one ever seems to notice the lack of every day success stories, and no-one dares to question the efficacy of the diets over the long term. But we all believe in that this works trivially, if only those silly fatties would just comply!
But this isn't really about helping fatties, is it?
It's about the feelz of the people who complain about fatties -- the fatty takes my Dr. appointments, my seat space, costs tax money and, on top of that, the fatties look ugly and sometimes smell. What is not to hate?
Yes, the fatties owe you all BIG time, if only they were slim, then the world would be more perfect.
Maybe a cure for stupidity is far more urgent than a cure for obesity... :-P
(It is one of my favorite mensch tests to take a fat friend along to meeting new people. You learn a lot of things this way about strangers in record time.)
Being grossly overweight is bad for your health. Grossly. Not just plump, chubby, zaftig, Reubenesque or any other term for being a bit overweight.
So FAT that you can't sit in a normal chair. You have to use a scooter at WalMart because you can't walk to the cookie isle. Can't sit in a seat at a theater. Break the toilets in some public restrooms. Can't bend over to tie your shoes. Haven't seen your penis in years because the dewlaps are so bad they almost reach your knees.
You know what I mean. Normal life is difficult or impossible for you type of FAT.
Yes. I AM body shaming someone who has let themselves go to such an extent. I will also body shame you for not being able to bathe, correctly wipe your butt, having yeast colonies in the fat rolls. You stink. You are sick. You are costing everyone else money because we have to pay for your medical care.
There is a case to be made for being "pleasingly plump" health wise however. Older folks who get ill and have a "buffer" might have a better time getting well. LINK
Of course, even if plump or slightly overweight, it is better to be fit, eat better and exercise. If you do those things you will loose some weight....eventually.
Bill Mahar is an asshole. But I'm sure there is a weight limit to get into the elite orgy parties he likes to pay to attend. They guy is just gross.
I used to jog compulsively. That helped to keep the weight off. Then I got an arthritic knee, and that helped too. The plus side of an arthritic knee is that it encourages you to keep the weight down. I'm down to one good meal a day, and that meal is salmon and broccoli.....It's fine to have normal weight, but the price of fitness in your later years is perpetual hunger. Sometimes I have such vivid dreams of eating bbq that they wake me up. Then I get up and eat some yogurt to take the edge off. To dream of bbq and wake to yogurt. We are such stuff as dreams are made on and wake to famished lives......I live in NYC. You can't walk ten yards without passing a bakery, a pizza parlor, a taco joint. The bakeries keep thinking up new, more imaginative ways to render chocolate chip cookies to the multitudes. It is very, very hard to keep the weight off. I'm not 100% sure that a flat stomach is worth the price.
"Early deaths save money."
I bring this up in conversation--sometimes suggesting we should have urged boomers to take up smoking, rather than quit--and it goes over like a lead balloon.
Bill Maher is a bad person for fist pumping Nanni Wine Box Pelosi.
I haven’t been plagued by hunger as I’ve lost weight.
Maybe that’s because I have other things to occupy me, mainly grandkids and my job as a church musician.
I’m continuing to count calories. I keep two dbases, one for counting calories and tracking weight, and another for tracking my workouts and vital signs. I’ll be doing this the rest of my life.
This is an interesting practice, observing the processes and status of my body. I’m fascinated by it. Wish I’d been doing it my entire life.
Early deaths save money.
And killing before birth saves the most money of all! Abort now!
Early deaths save money only if you live a prosperous life and then die the day before you apply for Social Security.
If my doctor tells me that I only have 3 months to live, I'll spend every penny that I have eating only ice cream sandwiches.
Rather than focus on Maher's dishonesty, I prefer to focus on that slimeball's moments of truth.
For example: "The citizens don't lift a finger to help."
Under prog rule, they don't have to: access to other people's money is guaranteed. See O-care.
Anyway, body "positivity" is just one plot line in The Narrative, the better to undermine bourgeois morality and clear the path for prog rule.
Karen of TexasAll of you blithely going on about calories in, calories out, exercise, yada, yada have obviously not dealt with the medical system when your own body turns on you. Try getting an autoimmune thyroid disorder dx-ed and then getting appropriate meds, ongoing tests/monitoring approved by insurance.
Medical conditions like thyroid are completely different from the guy who eats 2 whole large pizzas and downs a pitcher of beer in one setting. Sorry to hear about yours.
Some people who are overweight have legit medical issues. Others, more often, it is a self inflicted condition. I would never "fat shame" anyone to their face. That would be rude and because I don't know what the condition is that caused the issue.
Loosing weight is incredibly difficult when you have taken years to put that weight on. Your body metabolism is going to resist all it can. It can take years to lose the weight.
My husband was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes about 25 years ago. We were applying for life insurance and he was declined as a health risk. THAT was a wake up call. We had both put on some weight me about 30 pounds more than I should weigh...and he was about 60 pounds overweight or more. Mostly due to those pizzas, bad eating habits ...over indulging.
We had to change our diets, remove or limit some items, add more vegetables, stir fry meals, smaller portions etc. He was all depressed. It was the end of the world. Life as he knew it was over. He fought me at first about the meal changes. Finally, I put my foot down and said...."LOOK, I'm not your Mom. You are a grown ass man and if you can't make some changes for your health, I can't make you. Cheat if you want. However, when you loose your feet, go blind because you won't stop eating, then I am NOT going to be pushing you around in a wheel chair." SNAP OUT OF IT!!!
Since then, we are both at our target weights. Took him several years. We feel so much better. Have energy. Our health checks ups are A+. Bought new clothes!! And YES we can still indulge ourselves with that slice cheesecake. Have a cocktail once in a while. Divide a steak between us instead of him eating a whole 12 oz steak. Even eat a few slices of pizza on occasion.
Required field must not be blank said...
Fat shaming would be legitimate, if only there was a proven, long lasting method of fat loss.
Eating right and exercising to lose weight is like abstaining from sex to avoid pregnancy. It works every time it is tried.
Ann writes..
In fact, if you did hard-nosed, truth-telling policy analysis, you wouldn't stress the 40,000-a-month death toll. Early deaths save money.
Not for illness related to overweight. Fat people tend to suffer chronic conditions for years and decades before finally passing away. Conditions which are extremely expensive to treat. Back problems, COPD, diabetes. Those 40,000 eat up a lot of health care dollars before the finally kick the bucket.
.
Once again we have libtards on The cutting edge trying to fix what is essentially an epidemic amongst the deplorables. With your obesity president has a leader of unhealthy living who just recently gutted the vegetable requirement for school lunches to ensure that you're disgusting offspring remain huge.
Unless, of course, you get raped by a pizza
...and there was that one case of immaculate digestion...
"Some people who are overweight have legit medical issues. Others, more often, it is a self inflicted condition. I would never "fat shame" anyone to their face. That would be rude and because I don't know what the condition is that caused the issue."
Far, far, more often. The legions of grossly overweight in the local Wal-Mart don't all have thyroid issues. I know this because they weren't there 40 years ago.
Other than that DBQ has this in a nutshell.
Hey, you're not going to believe this...
Losing and keeping weight off is HARD. Really hard. And it's much, much harder for the poorest in our society. Try to eat nothing and feed a family on nothing but fresh fruits and vegetables on a small salary, not possible.
Bill Maher and others who have personal trainers, can set their own hours, are filthy rich have lots of advantages that others do not. AND their careers depend on them staying thin.
Obesity probably causes more death, depression and health issues than most of the cancers we shill for constantly.
We really, really need a lot more funds allocated to finding a way to fight this. Better thinness through drugs is my credo.
It's all been figured out. The desire to eat and maintain a certain body fat is regulated by what is essentially the lizard brain. The hunger drive is almost as powerful as the drive to breathe. We share this wetware programming with the lowly lampreys.
Almost everything in our modern America triggers overeating. High fat high calorie dense food actually makes you more hungry. That's why the dose of sugar water and french fries makes you want to eat that triple whopper supreme with bacon.
Food advertising also triggers the hunger response. That's why it's so difficult to end the obesity epidemic in the United States. We did not evolve to live in unlimited caloric abundance.
Just like racism sexism or homophobia transphobia, you deplorables are basically failing to evolve with the modern times and your obesity is another example of how you are failing at being modern humans
Except that in my experience most doctors are still stuck on discredited ideas like the old food pyramid: Eat low-fat, whole grains, cut out red meat, etc. They’ve probably done more harm than good.
1/20/20, 7:01 AM
The primary care doctors I know are great fans of Weight Watchers. From what I understand, WW promotes sensible dieting, which includes all of the major food groups. If the old food pyramid overemphasized grains, the paleo and keto diets are every bit as unrealistic in declaring carbs the enemy. It's not a bad thing to eat a potato. It's bad to eat a boatload of fries. It's not bad to eat pasta. It's bad to eat a pound of Fettucine Alfredo.
All those low carb, high fat, high protein diets don't explain why most of the world manages quite well on some combination of rice and beans. Or how Italians can eat pasta daily and still stay slimmer than Americans. I think that the puritanical streak in Americans is responsible for "authorities" declaring one category of food evil and responsible for our blubber - it's sugar! It's fat! It's carbs!
No, it's too much of all of those things. I lost 40 pounds and kept it off eating in moderation and exercising and I don't feel the need to pass up an occasional slice of pizza (with real crust, not that awful cauliflower crust substitute) or chocolate cake.
It took me a year and a half to lose those 40 pounds though. I suspect that's the real problem. People want quick fixes.
Blogger William said...
It's fine to have normal weight, but the price of fitness in your later years is perpetual hunger. Sometimes I have such vivid dreams of eating bbq that they wake me up. Then I get up and eat some yogurt to take the edge off. To dream of bbq and wake to yogurt. We are such stuff as dreams are made on and wake to famished lives......I live in NYC. You can't walk ten yards without passing a bakery, a pizza parlor, a taco joint. The bakeries keep thinking up new, more imaginative ways to render chocolate chip cookies to the multitudes. It is very, very hard to keep the weight off. I'm not 100% sure that a flat stomach is worth the price.
1/20/20, 8:14 AM"
This is what I am talking about, this poster is correct, the price of fitness in later years is a pretty decreased quality of life ( food wise ) forever. We are the smartest, brightest, most creative creatures that have ever existed ( that we know of), let's put some of that into finding ways to circumvent this issue short of having one meal a day of broccoli and salmon. I mean, seriously...
Neither overt Body Positive Acceptance or Fat Shaming is needed, just a little compassion. Alcoholics don't have to drink. Drug Addicts don't have to take drugs. The obese do have to eat. (Not talking about compulsions, just basic requirements.)
After studying the subject to help with my weight issues, I've come to the conclusion there is a significant genetic component to weight management, not at the mon/pop level but bigger, like how most people in the world can't digest milk correctly after infancy except a high percentage of those with Northern European roots. I believe our lack of understanding of this is why the introduction of the "low fat, high carb" Food Pyramid led to accelerating obesity problems. (Remember this: Low Fat = more sugar and Fat Free = even more sugar.)
We really, really need a lot more funds allocated to finding a way to fight this
Teaching people how to cook and budget their food money, would be a giant first step. Cooking meals from scratch is not hard, if you know how and if you have some of the necessary tools. Provide the tools for those who can't buy themselves. Pans, utensils. Remember Home-Economics as a class in High School. Do it again.
Sheesh. Our grandparents and great grands did all this without supermarkets or even gas or electric stoves. We can certainly do it to!
It is just easier to buy pre prepared meals, go to McDonalds than to make something from scratch. Meals full of fat and salt.
Yes. Cooking does take time but if you can make that time you can cook for a whole family very very inexpensively. Use a slow cooker. Use a pressure cooker.
Bean soups. Minestrone. Stir fry meals stretch that meat and vegetable budget.
You know who’s skinny? Heroin, cocaine and meth addicts — cuz they make better life choices.
I dropped 30 lbs a couple years ago, by going keto for a bit more than 3 months. Dropped 2lbs a week like clockwork. Only stopped because I was getting ridiculously light (low 160s). Since then I let myself fluctuate between 170 and 180 by periodically going into ketosis for a few weeks. Nice diet, gives my cells a break from insulin tolerance, minimal cravings. Really odd that I have almost zero solid waste. I've been in ketosis for a couple weeks right now and have lost 7lbs, wish I had more pep, but a bit of fat bomb every day balances that out.
Obesity in the US is largely a residual effect of the government food pyramid which promoted high carb foods: bread, pasta, rice, tropical fruits, etc. as the base of your diet, which might be tolerable if you are burning it all off in the fields every day, but is a recipe for blobbing out at your desk.
Plus my company has a wall of free carb heavy snacks. One of the reasons I lose weight so easily is I don't want to drop out of ketosis so I know I can't have any of it.
Cigarette smokers were almost always skinnier, and nicotine is a great, quick hit anxiety medication. Lots of people once smoked cigarettes. I think we should suggest vaping to overweight people, to replace the snacking habit, and to help with anxiety. <<--Sort of serious.
Dropped 25 pounds starting a couple years ago. Have increased running distances and did first 10k in September after about a 6 year layoff at that distance. Shifted the weight training workouts from “exercise” to “training” and lifted in a powerlifting competition in November after a 25 year break from competing. Learning a lot as I go about recovery time needed between heavy lifting days and long run days. More rest is needed at 60 y/o than needed at 30........ also bought one of those fancy scales that purports to provide body fat and water weight analysis to provide some additional items to track on my phone. My wife has lost similar weight the last couple years and is targeting a half marathon. She has been a big motivator for me as well.
Another consideration is that when we boomers were growing up, diet advice wasn’t that important because we exercised constantly, walking to school uphill both ways burns a lot of calories! But we didn’t have “smartphones” or even much TV, got everywhere on bicycles, yada yada yada. So we didn’t have the habits, as a generation, of giving our children much dietary advice because we didn’t get much.
This is what I am talking about, this poster is correct, the price of fitness in later years is a pretty decreased quality of life ( food wise ) forever
Oh baloney. You are doing it wrong if all you let yourself eat is so bland, boring and bereft of variety. No wonder no one can stick to a diet. Use real ingredients, butter, whole milk, cheese. Spices and variety.
Meal planning is everything. Today.
Breakfast: Oatmeal chopped up apples and walnuts in it. Two slices bacon for hubby. One for me.
Lunch. Last of the leftover home made clam chowder with a small salad ..ingredients from two days ago.
Dinner. Tilapia fillets in lemon sauce. Tomato salad (two tomatoes in wedges with kalamata olives, onions, cucumber if available, whole grain mustard-olive oil vinaigrette) Brown rice and butter. You won't loose your trip to heaven if you use real butter in moderation!
Tomorrow dinner. BBQ pork ribs. Half of a rack, the other half is frozen for later. We will likely eat less than half of that half between the two of us and have left overs for lunch in a couple of days.
Ribs. Corn, black bean, jalapeno salad. Fresh biscuits and butter. Maybe... Ricotta cheese pie, with home made lemon curd topping.
Anybody struggling with losing weight should read the book “The Power of Habit” and come up with a plan using those guidelines.
I can't find it at the moment, but I recall a European population health study about 15-20 years ago that indicated smokers consumed less healthcare than non-smokers because they tend to die younger and from relatively acute causes, like heart attacks. Consequently, they placed less of a burden on the healthcare system than non-smokers. I recall the healthcare community greeting the study like it was a fart on a crowded elevator.
@Howard:
That's why it's so difficult to end the obesity epidemic in the United States. We did not evolve to live in unlimited caloric abundance.
There is certainly a lot of truth to that, though I am not much of a fan of the triune brain model. But I am not sure how much of the problem "unlimited caloric abundance" explains. There are many countries in the world that have comparable access to food and yet do not have comparable obesity rates to the US. There are also racial disparities at play which raises the question of confounding genetic causes.
There is probably not a one-size-fits-all weightless solution but rather a variety of solutions that fit people with a particular genetic profile. As best I can tell, the two biggest changes in the American diet over the second half of the 20th century, the period in which obesity rates started climbing steadily, was a reduction in the consumption of animal and an increase in the consumption of sugar and vegetable oils. Cheap vegetable oils like soybean are used everywhere.
I've never had much of a weight problem, but I will get a bit of a spare tire if I don't keep an eye on what I eat. I've found that keeping an eye on carb intake and avoiding vegetable oils keeps me at a pretty consistent weight level.
Just another goddamn moral panic...how many of these can we do at a time?
And just what do "we" intend to do to change others' habits in a free country? That "we" haven't been trying for decades already?
@Howard
I live in the Hudson Valley among the decidedly non-Deplorables.
Almost all of them are obese, too.
In NYC, the young people and gay men are slender because they still want to get laid. Once they do get laid and hitched up with a partner, they blow up, too.
Gee, don't you love reading the detailed rundowns of everyone's diet and exercise routines?
I know I do!
I agree with DBQ too many people are divorced from their food. They don’t grow, raise, or prepare it.
Last night’s supper was homemade ravioli, with homemade sauce, and homemade bread. My family ate it slowly and appreciatively because they saw the amount of work that went into it. Nobody gorged but there were arguments over who got the extra frozen ravioli.
Also, why do so many people expect everyone to like and approve of them?
"Just like racism sexism or homophobia transphobia, you deplorables are basically failing to evolve with the modern times and your obesity is another example of how you are failing at being modern humans"
And, like all those things, the Left generously insists on subsidizing it. Very gracious of you.
Gluttony is not a condition. It's a sin.
If you make your own pasta you can get 00 Antimo Caputo Pasta & Gnocchi Flour through the AA portal. It makes a noticeable difference in your pasta.
Does body positivity increase as you gain more and more pounds?
He's absolutely right. I'm fat, but I don't want to be fat. I've lost 75 pounds, and my health has improved dramatically. Lots more weight to go, but losing weight is possible. Hard some days, as I really miss Snickers bars and Little Debbie oatmeal cakes, but very doable.
I really really miss Moon Pies. Oh, well. Life's a trade-off.
The bigger picture, so to speak, is that today's Leftists are secular gnostics. They deny the reality of the body. So men can become women if they say they are women, even if they retain their male genitals. And obesity can be healthy and beautiful if we simply keep declaring it healthy and beautiful.
However, biology as a way of asserting itself, without reference to our feelings and wishes.
"40,000 people a month die from fat-related illness and that it's not about how people look but the terrible health problem."
"Health" is at least as much about quality of life as about quantity. And I'd expect the negative impact of obesity to fall more on quality than quantity.
It's not just that obesity reduces your value in the mating market and often has other negative effects on your social life, but the shortness of breath, the inability to fully engage in many physical activities, the increased probability you'll develop type II diabetes, even the likelihood that as you age(if you do) you'll find you lack the strength pick yourself up after a fall (esp. if there's nothing nearby to hang onto).
Perhaps one might make an analogy between smoking and obesity? For the incidence of smoking is far less than it once was, and surely a large reason for that is the social pressure that's convinced practically everyone that smoking has become very, very uncool (because it makes you look like a fool more than it makes you look cool)?
"As best I can tell, the two biggest changes in the American diet over the second half of the 20th century, the period in which obesity rates started climbing steadily, was a reduction in the consumption of animal and an increase in the consumption of sugar and vegetable oils. Cheap vegetable oils like soybean are used everywhere.:
There's something to this. DBQ is absolutely correct about using real ingredients in moderation.
When I do indulge these days, I made sure it's something really good - I'll split a decadent dessert with my husband in a restaurant, or have a couple of pieces of expensive chocolate. It's much more satisfying than drinking a can of soda (full of corn syrup) or having a Snickers bar. (roodgeek, I used to have a weakness for Little Debbies and Snickers bars to so I can absolutely empathize. It is possible to retrain your taste buds. I really don't miss junk food at all anymore, but again, that doesn't happen overnight.)
"Everybody who is fat knows that they're fat."
Yes, but there's also a thing called willful denial, sometimes delusionally so, and they really don't like having that little reverie (their little safe place) disturbed.
It's just so comforting and fun too, to eat whatever you want, in whatever amount you want, whenever you want, even shoveling the ice cream down one's gullet straight from the bucket using the scoop as a spoon, if one desires. Over and over again.
Peer pressure is an incredibly powerful and effective means of social control present in all human cultures ("The nail that sticks out shall be hammered down"). Fat shaming is nothing if not peer pressure. And it works big time. That's the problem for fat people.
Fat shaming = example 4,517 of "shut up" and 3,996 of "I'm a VICTIMMMMMMM!".
MikeR, yes it is true. It is basic physics. It is literally impossible for it not to be true. What you've flagged as contra-evidence is simply that it plays out a little differently in each person. A detail I included in the comment that you are objecting to.
"It would be socially unacceptable fat-shaming.
Why is "fat-shaming" socially unacceptable? Because for all too many people, it's simply too damn hard to lose the weight and keep it off. Numerous commenters here have pointed that out.
For some, it's simply a matter of "calorie control". For others it's agony. See William's comment about "perpetual hunger". He is not alone. It's a real phenomenon.
I have gazed in amazement at a heavy person who says, "When are we going to eat? I'm hungry!" I look at the refrigerator they're wearing and ask myself, How is it possible? They have enough food on them to last a month or longer. Whence comes the hunger? That is the question mainstream nutritional thinking can't answer. All they can say is, "Suck it up, buttercup!" That is truly no answer. People who are slender don't have that problem. They are not compelled to eat beyond their need. That's why they are slender.
J. Farmer's comment about sugar and vegetable oils comes closest to the line of thinking I follow. There is evidence the abundance of these things in the diet damages over time our ability to handle carbohydrate normally. They are not part of the diet we evolved with, so their excess is a new and likely unhealthy thing.
exiledonmainstreet says, "All those low carb, high fat, high protein diets don't explain why most of the world manages quite well on some combination of rice and beans." Yes, the low carb, high fat diet does explain it. If your ability to handle carbs is damaged, you have to up the saturated animal fat and lower carbs to get proper metabolism. Otherwise, the carbs go to storage by default. The un- or less-damaged folks don't have that problem.
This is a huge issue, much bigger than can be resolved with "will power."
"MikeR, yes it is true. It is basic physics. It is literally impossible for it not to be true." Uh - no, again. You are completely wrong. You are assuming something about the human body that is wrong: that food <=> energy <=> fat. The body has other choices on what do with surplus energy and what to do about insufficient energy; fat is not the only choice. These are two related but independent systems.
Tim, either trust me or do some more research. I know basic physics.
"MikeR, yes it is true. It is basic physics. It is literally impossible for it not to be true." Uh - no, again. You are completely wrong. You are assuming something about the human body that is wrong: that food <=> energy <=> fat. The body has other choices on what do with surplus energy and what to do about insufficient energy; fat is not the only choice. These are two related but independent systems.
Tim, either trust me or do some more research. I know basic physics.
The problem with Maher here is that he's a thin guy wagging his finger at fat people. This is as bad as a white person telling black people, "It's YOUR fault you're that way".
All diets work if you stick to them.
Some people can eat normal and end up a heifer.Six hundred pound people are not normal, there has to be a genetic reason for that. Who here can imagine eating enough to end up that fat? Three generations of my family, had one overweight grandmother, rest of us normal, within reason, without any effort.
. Some people can over eat and stay slim. Doubt that Bill Maher follows any kind of restricted diet.
When Oprah lost all the weight, she had a weight coach. Then, she went on a cross country trip with her friend Gail(?) and started having a couple of desserts. Whoops!She started gaining it all back.
Personal experience when I quit smoking, rewarding my self with a cigarette now and then resulted in the old three pack a day habit.A learning experience. For some people, works the same way with eating, drinking, or drugging. No doubt some can lose a lot of weight and then moderate the bad stuff, some can't.
exiledonmainstreet When I do indulge these days, I made sure it's something really good - I'll split a decadent dessert with my husband in a restaurant, or have a couple of pieces of expensive chocolate
That is the secret. You can indulge yourself. In moderation and make it something really good. A diet shouldn't be a punishment or make you feel deprived. Indulge once in a while.
Splitting a desert is something we do too, if we decide to eat one when out.
Candy? We buy a box of See's. Our favorites and restrict ourselves to one...OK... two...pieces a day. No more! Make it last. Make it special.
I haven't had a soda in years. I don't miss them at all.
Shared responsibility... normalization is the first step. The Chinese... communist solution with progress. That said, self-moderation is imperative to optimize liberty in a diverse (i.e. numerical not color) society, especially with socialized or shared resources.
We really, really need a lot more funds allocated to finding a way to fight this
Not really. Elect Bloomberg, government will make bad food illegal.
We did not evolve to live in unlimited caloric abundance.
Yes and no. I would bet that obesity is inversely related to income. The problem is the cheapest calories are carb-laden junk that lower-income people can more easily afford to gorge on.
Peer pressure is an incredibly powerful and effective means of social control present in all human cultures ("The nail that sticks out shall be hammered down"). Fat shaming is nothing if not peer pressure. And it works big time. That's the problem for fat people.
. Remember when having a bastard child was shameful? When being a drug addict was shameful? Now, that is accepted and being a tubby is apparently worse.
Can't say enough about keto diet. I lost 25 pounds on it. You don't get hungry because you eat some protein, lots of fat, few carbs. My plan was 5% carbs, 20% protein, 75% fat. To diet and lose weight and not get hungry was like a miracle to me! And I feel great. :-)
Is Maher saying people should be responsible for their actions? Say it ain't so.
I think we are going to get into trouble if we lose social shaming. My husband and I were talking about the new beer for breakfast commercials. I think the beer companies are worried about competition from legalized pot.
There are “rules” for alcohol. No beer before noon. No hard alcohol before five. People look askance as those who break those rules (hence my husband’s disgust at the new commercials). Pot doesn’t have those social etiquette rules. I think the beer companies are trying to level the playing field.
Bob wrote:
"Why is "fat-shaming" socially unacceptable? Because for all too many people, it's simply too damn hard to lose the weight and keep it off."
In essence it's bullying, that's what I don't like about it. It just is bad manners and has no class.
And trying to ban people from having bad manners is even more difficult than trying to cure obesity with fat-shaming.
Worse, we can eventually cure obesity by understanding and manipulating the mechanisms thereof --- and that will be a good thing, but once we start to be able to cure personality flaws that was, that will not be positive at all in the long run.
So perhaps a world full of fat folks along with rude bullies who harangue them is the better version of reality?
:-)
To hell with Maher. I identify myself as a slim person.
Speaking of Maher and the rest of the moralists, if fat people are responsible for their situation and thus should be held accountable why aren't able bodied adult poor people held to the same standard? Or those with student loans?
"The problem is the cheapest calories are carb-laden junk that lower-income people can more easily afford to gorge on."
I don't think that's true. I did not find it difficult to eat low calorie when our family income was low. Nobody's getting fat on lentils, eggs, and bananas, and those are some of the cheapest foods going.
"The problem is the cheapest calories are carb-laden junk that lower-income people can more easily afford to gorge on."
Not necessarily true. The low income people who know how to cook, and who are willing to actually do so, are able to get by very well with fresh and inexpensive ingredients.
The anecdotal evidence is at our rural small town grocery store and in the carts of those in line who are not always well to do (it is a small town and we know most people). The young hispanic women, wives of the agricultural workers locally, are filling their carts with dried beans,canned vegetables, canned fruit or fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, potatoes, chicken, cheap cuts of beef, milk, cheese, tortillas and other cooking staples. Rarely do you even see cereal or packaged ingredients. By and large, they are all in rather good shape and not obese or fat.
The 'white' women have carts full of bags of potato chips, sodas, frozen meals, cookies. Rarely fresh ingredients. It is night and day. These women are enormous. Their children are enormous too.
Now, that isn't all hispanic or all white women shopping are the same. It just seems by observation that to be predominately the case.
One group cooks and seems frugal. The other group doesn't seem to cook and wastes money on junk.
Additionally, most of the hispanic people have nice gardens where they grow their own vegetables and many have chickens for meat and eggs..also goats. Very few of the other group have anything like this on their properties or rental houses. They could. They just don't.
Freeman Hunt, neither lentils nor bananas can reasonably called low carb. A medium banana has about as many carbs as an 8oz soda, if Google is to be believed.
Glenn Howes said...
Freeman Hunt, neither lentils nor bananas can reasonably called low carb. A medium banana has about as many carbs as an 8oz soda, if Google is to be believed.
1/20/20, 1:47 PM
Nobody is getting fat because they ate too many bananas and lentils. Beans and bananas are high carb but nutritious and filling. Sodas are just empty calories.
Sodas trigger hunger, complex carbs don't. Refined, calorie dense carbs trigger appetite, hence bread before supper.
If keto works for you, great. I didn't like it but if it helps others lose weight and become healthier, I'm not going to knock it. My nephew lost a bunch of weight when he became a vegetarian and he feels pretty good, so more power to him. Personally, I'd hate to give up the occasional pasta and potatoes and steak, but adults can figure out what works best for them. Any diet plan you follow - keto, Mediterranean, vegetarian, Weight Watchers, whatever - is better than being obese.
Again, DBQ hits the nail on the head regarding poor people and diet. It's not that there are no healthy options available to them, it's that most of them rely on fast food and convenience food rather than cooking.
In fact, if you did hard-nosed, truth-telling policy analysis, you wouldn't stress the 40,000-a-month death toll. Early deaths save money.
I'm sure this has already been addressed, but AA, I think you're wrong on this. First of all, those 40000 didn't just up and die one day. They put a lot of stress on the health care system BEFORE they died. If they weren't suffering from what eventually killed them, they wouldn't have been taking up health care resources in what is effectively a scarce commodity. Further, while 40000 died, that implies that, for the calendar year to come, there are currently 440000 people that are likely under some form of health care to fight fat-related symptoms that will kill them some time before next January. And, even further, those are constantly being replaced by new people entering health care to fight their fat-related symptoms. The last point I'd make is that some (most?) people with fat-related symptoms don't die from them before what we would generally think of as age-related causes and, thus, hit the health care system all their adult lives for fat-related and then age-related symptoms, which are probably exacerbated by the aforementioned fat-related ones. :)
You don't gain anything by those people dying off earlier because they're constantly being replaced. The overall point here is that no matter how you slice it, an overweight population is hitting health care much harder than a population that is not overweight. In a progressive single-payer system, fat-related symptoms are everyone's problem.
If we talk about the bad health effects, where will it stop?
What other behaviors have poor health effects that we need to prevent being discussed honestly?
HINT: If you can think of none, you are part of the problem.
VIRGINITY?!
Really?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH7C8Qa8xfo
"Early deaths save money." is something that I've been saying for years. It's one thing to say that it's a tragedy for someone to die before they have a full life, but it's disingenuous to claim that preventing early deaths saves money. Dying of a heart attack at 40 is much cheaper, in the long run, then being alive into their 90s. (or later) Everyone dies and, as a general rule, the longer that someone lives, the more expensive their health costs will be.
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