"... and... medical staff from the United States Centers for Disease Control would check patients in an isolated area. Passengers would remain in a terminal that is not currently being used by commercial carriers or accessible to the public..... [A]ny passengers found to have a cough, fever or shortness of breath... will be further assessed by medical experts...."
From "Coronavirus Live Updates: U.S. Evacuates Citizens From Hot Zone, and Death Toll Mounts/Chinese officials confirmed nearly 6,000 cases of the mysterious illness as foreign governments airlifted their citizens out of Wuhan, the outbreak’s epicenter" (NYT).
ADDED: "Terrified passengers wear PLASTIC BOTTLES and motorbike helmets to protect themselves against coronavirus" (The Sun).
IN THE COMMENTS: Aunty Trump said: "No symptoms for a week. They need to be quarantined for two weeks. If you let them go, it can’t be undone." Yeah, why is it good enough to look for those who "have a cough, fever or shortness of breath" when they get off the plane?
ALSO: If even one person on that plan had the virus, wouldn't everyone on the plane have inhaled it? Shouldn't they all be quarantined for the incubation period?
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८६ टिप्पण्या:
On The Five they were saying the incubation period for the virus is up to two weeks. If that’s true any flights into the US from China are crop dusters.
No symptoms for a week. They need to be quarantined for two weeks. If you let them go, it can’t be undone.
If any of the passengers was infected then they all are. Airplane air guarantees it.
The right way to do it is to put the passengers in a flight training program and then let them fly their own airplanes individually to the US.
I say lock them up in the Bio-Dome. But what has Pauly Shore ever done to us?
According to cdc data, the infection rate has gone exponential in China. This is just the beginning.
Infection rates are always exponential until they're not.
The idea is bring the Americans back home where they'll catch wellness from other Americans.
There should be quarantine for planes as well.
Aunty Trump is absolutely correct.
Bringing them back by sailboat would work. I assume it would take a while. Either they're all obviously sick or nobody is, when they arrive.
The other 199 are canaries for the one who's not displaying symptoms but is sick.
They quarantined the Apollo astronauts just to be sure. Why not these folks?
Give them Tang.
Bringing them back by sailboat would work.
The Thunberg technique. Side effects include anger, self-righteousness and delusions of grandeur.
The original quarantino lasted 40 days. Good enough for the Romans, so it should be good enough for this.
"Terrified passengers wear PLASTIC BOTTLES and motorbike helmets to protect themselves against coronavirus"
The disease has reached the Disney Princess stage.
I hate watching this country create another panic.
Everybody: You are going to be just fine. You are not going to catch the coronavirus.
Put them on a slow boat from China.
That is why we have USMOI, the United States Minor Outlying Islands.
I love it when I'm filling out a form and one of the options on the drop-down menu is United States Minor Outlying Islands.
Hopefully we have them marked on maps or can remember where they are, so this doesn't degenerate into a Lost, or Lord of the Flies, or Gilligan's Island scenario.
Bob Boyd said...
They quarantined the Apollo astronauts just to be sure
This time they'd have to build a mighty big containment chamber.
I remember that we did a few problems in my Statistics and Probabilities class on the spread of infection disease. A good assumption was that the stupid things people did will carry the day over the smart things people did.
This is an extinction event.
Like the last dozen viral outbreaks.
This time they'd have to build a mighty big containment chamber.
We have an exceptionally-nice facility in Cuba.
"This is an extinction event.
Like the last dozen viral outbreaks."
Or the reversal of Net Neutrality.
But on the other hand, the Spanish Flu was no walk in the park. All of those comets that whiz by and miss us doesn’t mean that there’s not one coming with our name on it.
Y2K cost me sleep.
I still owe interest.
All of those comets that whiz by and miss us doesn’t mean that there’s not one coming with our name on it.
SMOD is welcomed in my house.
Quite the ceremony, actually.
Darrell said...
This is an extinction event.
Like the last dozen viral outbreaks.
Seriously. And it just shows the complete trust bankruptcy of the media. And of course the second least trustworthy group are the epidemiologists.
I have not had one conversation about this in real life
Y2K was real. It was avoided with fixes in time, is all.
The moral of The Boy Who Cried Wolf is that eventually, there will be a wolf, and nobody will come to help.
2K was real. It was avoided with fixes in time, is all.
Right. And research proves research works.
THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS
NEARLY EVERYONE ON EARTH WILL BE DEAD, IN LESS THAN 75 YEARS!!!
And ALL will be dead within 115 years.
THIS IS NO JOKE
There IS this terrible virus; and within 75 years, NEARLY EVERYONE will be DEAD
THESE ARE THE FACTS. That you FOOLS are Too Stupid to realize it does not change the fact
THAT WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!
this message brought to you by the "we're all going to die corporation"
During the leadup to Y2K, the proto-deplorables were sold billions of dollars worth of bunker survival gear. Trump is merely the current pied Piper of Hamlin.
The Chinese could fight the virus with mean little dogs if they hadn't eaten them all.
"WARNING: DISTRESSING IMAGES[yay!]. The dogs were supplied free of charge to the farmer by a group dedicated to promoting traditional hunting methods and has volunteers who take part for fun."
Yeah, why is it good enough to look for those who "have a cough, fever or shortness of breath" when they get off the plane?
Security theater, public health division.
Or, more depressingly, cargo-cult quarantine. Or banana-republic quarantine. Ever get the impression that the people in charge of stuff just aren't serious people? Except when it comes to silly things, about which they're deadly serious. Hopefully not literally deadly, this time. (Already seeing the predictable PC hand-wringing: You know what we really must be vigilant to contain? No, not viruses, you rube. The racism and xenophobia lurking behind calls for effective quarantine!)
The Left says that 1.5 billion is the Earth's maximum population. They spend their life trying to get there--excepting them, of course.
So do you want them making policy, setting safety protocols?
The moral of The Boy Who Cried Wolf is that eventually, there will be a wolf, and nobody will come to help.
They were eatin' wolves in Wuhan.
The Telegraph reveals that the Britons airlifted out of Wuhan will be quarantined for a fortnight.
I was on our corporate Y2K project management team, a two-year effort.
It was real, but much less horrible or difficult than the inevitable doom that was being touted at the time.
I remember being in our situation room overnight to handle emergency response as the clock ticked over. And there was, hour after hour, nothing. It was a very boring night. And next to nothing the next day, the next week, the next month.
Quarantine them in the US Senate. Kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.
MayBee: I hate watching this country create another panic.
I don't see anybody panicking around me. The media, yeah. The media is always in a panic. The panicking cat-ladies they cater to are not "this country".
So stop panicking about non-existent panics.
Everybody: You are going to be just fine. You are not going to catch the coronavirus.
In all probability. It's unlikely that any given epidemic is going to develop into the Big One (plague division). But as when that might happen isn't predictable, prudent public health measures (like quarantine and travel restrictions) need to be considered. That isn't "panicking", that's having competent public health authorities.
If this all, as is probable, peters out with morbidity and mortality stats within the average range, that doesn't mean that any public health measures imposed to prevent spread weren't prudent.
Now you are just trying to salvage your pride, Howard.
The containment measures are appropriate. The media hysteria is not. Even so, this will be a great opportunity for our hostess to again expound on the evils of international travel.
Touche, Auntie
A healthy Althouse-style aversion to travel is what the world needs.
The Wuhan Klan
buwaya: I was on our corporate Y2K project management team, a two-year effort.
It was real, but much less horrible or difficult than the inevitable doom that was being touted at the time.
I remember being in our situation room overnight to handle emergency response as the clock ticked over. And there was, hour after hour, nothing. It was a very boring night. And next to nothing the next day, the next week, the next month.
I was a programmer for the City at the time, and this is all absolutely correct. Especially the part about it being a long, boring night. :)
I was in Barbados two days after Y2K working on a project there for a month, and damn did I get an earful about the damn Americans being afraid to come there and ruining their tourist season.
"Especially the part about it being a long, boring night. :)"
We got free pizza out of it!
I doubt it is extinction event everyone panic time. The media always makes such a big deal out of everything. It is like the Boy Who Cried Wolf, though. One day there will be a wolf.
Nevertheless, we are taking some precautions. It is only prudent. Getting our annual pneumonia shots earlier this year. We are of that age to do that anyway and I have had walking pneumonia several times. Bringing hand sanitizer and wipes when we go out. Especially to the grocery store or places where we have to touch things.
We already don't hang out with a lot of people or go places where there are crowds. Have no kids around us or know anyone who has kids. The mail might be problematic, but I pay all my bills on line anyway.
Because we live in a itty bitty remote, not very populated area the likelihood of immediate spread of this (just like SARS) is slim. Its winter and everyone just hunkers down in their houses anyway. We are like the last stop on a long train ride.
If we did have an outbreak in our area we can just stay put, comfortably live on the food in our pantry, pump house and freezers for at least 3 months or more. Dried and canned milk is gross, but edible. Watch Netflix and chill :-)
Don't panic. But do be wary.
I see that Aunty Trump beat me to the punch on the Boy who cried wolf meme. Should've read the preceding comments . /facepalm ala my avatar.
"States with confirmed 2019-nCoV cases"
Washington, California, Aridzona and...by its outline I think it must be Ukraine.
Trump is merely the current Pied Piper of Hamlin.
Howard hears a delectable tune.
Dance, Howard. Dance.
Sheldon Cooper on being contagious.
WARNING: DISTRESSING IMAGES
Who finds pictures of dead rats distressing is something I want to know.
MadisonMan said...
WARNING: DISTRESSING IMAGES
Who finds pictures of dead rats distressing is something I want to know.
1/29/20, 8:47 AM
Dead rats are not distressing. Dead rats being sold for human consumption are rather distressing.
I would have a difficult time following kosher laws. I like shrimp and cheeseburgers and bacon. Yet, although the kosher laws seem absurdly stringent to me (different dishes and cookware for meat and dairy), Orthodox Jews do have a point: there are things you shouldn't eat. Of course, if you are starving to death, all bets are off, but the young women I saw in a video laughingly consuming bat soup were plainly not famished.
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/man-behind-global-coronavirus-pandemic
Unverified, but I also have been trained not to believe in coincidences. If it is a bioweapon that got loose, you should assume that this thing will do exactly what it was engineered to do, which is escape detection during incubation while simultaneously being transmissible.
Air travel should be stopped. These people should be in lockdown. And intel needs to be (if they aren't already) looking into this.
Howard said...
During the leadup to Y2K, the proto-deplorables were sold billions of dollars worth of bunker survival gear. Trump is merely the current pied Piper of Hamlin.
I got pretty well cured doing Y2K consulting for a pre-IPO startup full of liberal types, the kind who deplore the deplorables. Among the great pleasures of life is dealing with people who think they're smarter than you. I suspect you know this.
I’ve named 2019-nCoV “boomerdoomer”, or BX for short. That’s who it’s killing.
When the boy cries wolf in Wuhan, they all come runnin' with their chopsticks.
If even one person on that plan had the virus, wouldn't everyone on the plane have inhaled it?
The mix of air in a plane is constantly changing. Air is constantly being added and removed. Recirculated air is also filtered. The idea that you will breathe in every virus from every other passenger on a plane is ridiculous.
Update: Aircraft was diverted from commercial airport (Ontario, CA) to March AFB (CA).
Short answer:
Yes, every single person on that plane should be in quarantine for 2 weeks.
Why? because protecting the rest of us from them is more important than their "right" to infect us..
The idea that we should NOT prioritize the uninfected over the infected is a bit of insanity brought to us by the AIDS crisis.
It was most recently on display with the Ebola epidemic, and Western medical personnel who came back got totally outraged at the thought they should have to stay at home, rather than celebrate their moral righteousness by going out and threatening everyone else
Medium answer: you don't have the right to get someone else sick
With the invention of antibiotics, people have gotten rather lackadaisical about this. "oh, it's no big deal, we can cure it. We shouldn't crush people's rights over it!"
No, we can't always cure it, and yes, we should crush people's "rights" over this.
Because you don't have the right to get other people sick.
You were potentially exposed? Then you go in quarantine, and stay there until we're sure you're not a risk to the rest of us.
Don't like that? Don't visit China. Don't be a health care volunteer in places with nasty diseases. Don't have the bad luck to be someplace where an epidemic breaks out.
Because your moral purity, and / or your bad luck, doesn't give you a right to pass the costs onto other people.
Flying in a plane dries out your mucus membranes, which makes it easier for the aliens to invade. Then there are the sharp edges of those plastic cups.
Bushman @10:30,
I am not a pilot, aircraft engineer, nor do I possess any other expertise in the area. But I have several friends and clients who are commercial passenger pilots. They tell me that cabin air is not refreshed. This is so, according to them, to save fuel. They also tell me that the air filters are not even designed to filter viruses. As an aside, and a bit off topic, they tell me that the water (from the powder room taps) is something never to get on your face (use wipes to clean one's hands).
80,000 people died of flu in the us in 2018.
Jes'sayin
John Henry
Fox News] Dr. Marc Siegal: "just now beginning to impose quarantines and travel restrictions in and around Wuhan a full year after the virus was first reported"
Will Xi be the sacrificial rat?
Why does it seem most who go against Trump fall?
This is another reason Trump is looking presidential/commanding.
Don't like that? Don't visit China. Don't be a health care volunteer in places with nasty diseases. Don't have the bad luck to be someplace where an epidemic breaks out.
Think larger. You’re going to have to quarantine Vegas and the West Coast and Hawaii.
OPEN BORDERS!
“Y2K was real. It was avoided with fixes in time, is all”
At the time, I was a patent attorney for an old line computer company. Our US operation was headquartered (for stupid bureaucratic reasons) in Boston, but we had the actual plant in Phoenix, where I was located. Which made me their only attorney west of Boston. We got the Y2K command center. Part of my job was to sit on the plant’s executive committee, and we worked on the operational side of Y2K throughout all of 1999. We had a number of orphaned legacy operating systems (including Multics, which was somewhat the parent of UNIX) and a couple that were currently still being sold. The problem was that these legacy systems were still in use around the world.
So all through the day, and part of the night, the Y2K command center monitored the cutover to the 21st Century. Somehow, they thought that they needed an attorney available, and that meant me. I would drop by periodically, and there were several mile markers crossed as different OS’s would be tested as midnight would roll through the first site with that OS. The height was when Sweden crossed into 2000, because we had supplied the Swedish National Grid with the computer systems that controlled Sweden’s electrical grid. That was maybe 20 years earlier, and we had terminated support maybe a decade before Y2K. But we did update their software for Y2K, for free, because we couldn’t afford the adverse publicity of Sweden going dark as the country passed into 2000. It didn’t, and that was our last real benchmark of the night. Unfortunately, I had to veto the request for beer and pizza, to celebrate, because I couldn’t authorize company funded alcohol consumption, and the attorneys who could, back in Boston, were long gone, and not on call, as I was. They got the pizza, but with soft drinks instead of beer.
80,000 people died of flu in the us in 2018.
It would be more accurate to say 80,000 people died when they got the flu.
In most cases contracting the flu was the last straw.
“I remember being in our situation room overnight to handle emergency response as the clock ticked over. And there was, hour after hour, nothing. It was a very boring night. And next to nothing the next day, the next week, the next month.”
Ditto here. Just glad that I was no longer in software, so I had to stay there all day and into the evening. I did drop by, on occasion, and made sure that I was there when Sweden crossed into 2000. But only being involved for contingencies, I had a beeper, and they could page me if they ended to. They didn’t.
I will predict this coronavirus story is old news by the time Spring rolls around. Panic and overstatement seem to be increasingly a part of our culture.
"why is it good enough to look for those who "have a cough, fever or shortness of breath" when they get off the plane?"
Have no fear, the TSA will be in charge.
“Nevertheless, we are taking some precautions. It is only prudent. Getting our annual pneumonia shots earlier this year. We are of that age to do that anyway and I have had walking pneumonia several times. Bringing hand sanitizer and wipes when we go out. Especially to the grocery store or places where we have to touch things”
We, or at least my partner, needs one. She used to get walking pneumonia every couple years, but she got a shot most of a decade ago, and that seemed to do the trick until maybe two weeks ago, when she came down with pneumonia sounding symptoms. Her Primary Care sent her (us because I was driving, and acting as her advocate) to the ER. It started well, with those symptoms getting her a bed and seeing a doctor on an expedited basis. And an X ray that showed her lungs clear. At that point, things slowed to a snails pace. We finally were sent packing at 2 am, after 6 hours there, with a prescription for an inhaler (that turned her into a stimulant crazed zombie whenever she used it), and nothing really that concrete having even decided. Our co-pay was $1,000 for mostly just lying on the bed for six hours. Paid half, and expect to negotiate for the rest of the bill. One theory is that she did have pneumonia, but was on the mend by the time we went to the ER. We do want to get her a pneumonia shot before we head back to MT I a couple months.
Her Primary Care pushed her into getting a flu shot in November. We go through this every year. She gets talked into the shot, and is sick for a week afterwards. Then I was blamed because I hadn’t reminded her that she always gets sick. Except that I am invariably stuck in the waiting room (typically reading blogs and commenting, like here, on them). And she is the one with the photographic memory. Next year, she has vowed to resist the pressure to get a flu shot. It should work since I do get one every year, and a the one who goes out in public most of the time.
Yancey Ward said...
I will predict this coronavirus story is old news by the time Spring rolls around. Panic and overstatement seem to be increasingly a part of our culture.
Yes, probably. But there are characteristics to this that make it interesting. It can take up to 2 weeks to reveal, and it may be transmissible in that window. As Lucid said earlier, thats how you'd design it if you wanted to create a problem.
Bruce, do you have a humidifier? I keep at least one running in my house after I turn the heat on in the fall, which was when I used to get colds and sore throats.
Xi might not survive this.
Honestly this panic mongering if it weren't freaking people out and damaging the economy would be risible. Anyone who has ever had a cold with a fever and swollen glands had a coronavirus infection. The reporting of the deaths doesn't detail the age and underlying physical condition of the patient. Once this is released it will be the same groups that die from the flu: elderly people, the very young, immunocompromised people and people who already have serious underlying conditions such as heat failure and compromised lungs.
If you are old, or have the other conditions I mentioned, get the new pneumonia shot and calm down and live normally.
Anyone here read the novel "Station 11" - a few years back. About a pandemic - and oh it has an isolated plane on the tarmac. Left there unopened for several years.
During the run up to Y2K I had a neighbor in real panic. My immediate neighbors and I were just down the road shooting off fireworks for our kids and the non-fireworks lighters were enjoying wine.
I made the joking suggestion that we should trip the main circuit board breaker on the Y2K panicked person. One of the wine drinking women thought this was a great idea.
Hilarity ensued.
oh this Wuhan?
https://www.nature.com/news/inside-the-chinese-lab-poised-to-study-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens-1.21487
inside-the-chinese-lab-poised-to-study-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens
Raccoon City.
March Air Force Base is hardly "remote" or "isolated". It's in Riverside, CA.
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