The impeachment effort against President Trump hinges on his motives. Presidents have wide discretion when dealing with foreign governments, and Mr. Trump’s actions have all been within the scope of his office’s power. But has he used that power for personal gain?
Ukrainian prosecutors took an interest in possible corruption involving Burisma Holdings, the company that paid Hunter Biden tens of thousands of dollars per month to serve on its board, long before Mr. Trump became president. And the Obama administration, including Vice President Joseph Biden, used America’s clout to influence Ukraine’s government. The questions about these relationships that Mr. Trump has pressed Ukraine to answer were matters of established public concern. A president has a right to seek answers about them, whether or not doing so has collateral implications for an election....
The very “norms” by which Washington operates, covering everything from America’s objectives in foreign policy to the imperative of multilateral trade deals to the legal ways in which career politicians and their families can make millions off their connections, are seen by Mr. Trump and his voters as the source of the country’s ills — from endless wars to declining manufacturing employment to the unresponsiveness of politicians in both parties to the country’s pain....
President Trump was doing exactly what voters elected him to do when he asked President Zelensky to account for Ukraine’s dealings with the Bidens. It’s a question related to the overall system linking American politicians with Ukrainian interests....
November 20, 2019
"Trump Is Doing Exactly What He Was Elected to Do/Don’t impeach him. His actions have all been within the scope of the presidency."
A NYT op-ed, by Daniel McCarthy, editor of Modern Age: A Conservative Quarterly.
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265 comments:
1 – 200 of 265 Newer› Newest»This whole show undermines our foreign policy for the next 5 years if Trump remains president.
He can no longer count on those he needs to trust. And all the other countries have a bargaining chip. Wouldn't want to see you go thru another impeachment inquiry, President Trump. So, just give us the money and all is well.
If I were Trump I'd just cut off all future foreign aid and point at the Democrats and say, "You did this."
Countdown to Twitter/Internet mob going after Mr. McCarthy commences in three, two...
Burisma indictments today.
Happy 77th birthday today Grampa Joe. 6th grandchild. DNA tests prove.
What they were trying to cover up with this impeachment, but instead they just brought attention to it.
https://twitter.com/Kevin_Shipp/status/1197280460142993409
The voters can elect you to do something unconstitutional, as happened with Obama, so that's not a criterion for impeachment. But Trump is well within normal exercise of discretion. The executive, after all, is a check on the other branches too, and Trump is checking.
I'm not sure if Trump did what they're charging him with. Further I don't understand that even if he did it that it then amounts to a "high crime and misdemeanor".....I'm certain that there was something wrong with Hunter Biden accepting all that money. I'm not sure if the Ukrainians got their money's worth, but that's certainly something worth investigating.....There's no way that Trump can be impeached while the questions about Hunter Biden are passed over....Is the precedent now established that no Republican President can ever use the power of his office to look into corruption allegations involving Democrats? I heard the FBI is looking into the suicide of noted Dem donor Jeffrey Epstein. Some info may come out that makes the Democrats look bad. This partisan witchhunt should end. Let the bones and secrets of Jeffrey Epstein rest in peace.
What you can do with a president, as opposed to a parliament, is drain the swamp from time to time.
You won't have the media with you. No Lincoln Steffens this time.
Schiff's shiv proves to be a double-edged scalpel.
Epstein did not kill himself.
Coleridge wrote that a conflict of interest is the pulley on which good character is hoist into public view.
That when there's good character involved. Otherwise it's the opposite.
"Let the bones and secrets of Jeffrey Epstein rest in peace."
Why? Is the precedent now established that no Democrat child-raper can ever be investigated? I want those secrets to be anything but rested.
one decent write up,
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment-burisma-idUSKBN1XU2N7
"It’s a question related to the overall system linking American politicians with Ukrainian interests...."
One of the WH flunkies, though partisan, wasn't wrong to say that he thought Trump's call with Zelensky might endanger bipartisan support for Ukraine: cooperation on corruption poses an inherent threat to Dems, whether the Bidens are specifically targeted or not.
that was the good colonel, in his deposition, odd how that works,
Season 2 episode 1 of DCI Banks is filled with visibly pregnant women for some reason. Might have to do with Hunter Biden. No clue that DS Annie Cabbot had been fooling around. Maybe it happened over the summer break.
Schiff's shiv proves to be a double-edged scalpel.
Schiff is obviously trying this in the Media. They can be counted for or being Democrat propagandists and being fairly stupid. His spin of Sonderland's early testimony was eaten whole by many media "experts." It was sort of sad, but there are plenty of people who still believe it.
This sham will never get to the Senate, but they will use it to to subpoena a lot of Trump and Executive Branch records they are not entitled to. When it goes to court, Schiff will lose, but he will still spin it as "obstruction". It is all about the court of public opinion.
Next on the foreign relations docket: qid pro Joe, Clintonese collusion, the Obamacity of the Iraq-Iran coupling, DNC denial, Greater Middle East War 1.0, palettes full of cash, abandoned Americans and allies, and Libya-Rebel/Jihadist/ISIS Affair. We live in interesting times.
eric first comment makes an interesting point I had not seen elsewhere. On the one hand, it sounds like a reason (another reason) to vote against Trump. But it does get my back up to think that a foreign country might say, "Do what we say or we'll call out the impeachment wagons." Those aren't your wagons, I'd say, they are mine. If anything, now, I'm more inclined to blame the anti-Trump Americans who have threatened impeachment from day one, and thereby have set up the situation described by eric.
If I were Trump I'd just cut off all future foreign aid and point at the Democrats and say, "You did this."
I'm all for that.
Remind me that when President Michelle Obama says aid to Israel won't be released unless and until that country investigates Donald Trump, Junior, the old professor will say "its within the scope of the presidency".
Mutaman: "Remind me that when President Michelle Obama says aid to Israel won't be released unless and until that country investigates Donald Trump, Junior, the old professor will say "its within the scope of the presidency""
LOLOLOLOL
Just read and savor that one!!
After now almost 4 years of obama weaponizing the entirety of US intelligence, law enforcement and executive agencies to spy on and frame the Trump campaign, President-Elect Trump and President Trump!
And last time I checked no Trump family member was handed $16.5 Million by a corrupt Israeli firm while Pres Trump orders Israeli prosecutors be fired when investigating Trump family members!!
Another "spot on" hypothetical from Mutaman!!
Meep meep!!
A majority of the voters didn't elect Trump. He was elected by an electoral college under a Constitutional system that also provides for his removal upon impeachment by the House and conviction by the Senate. Looks like a majority of the voters acting through their Representatives will soon impeach him. Remains to be seen what a minority of the voters acting through the undemocratic Senate seems likely to do with that bill of impeachment.
how long did they push Israel, to freeze settlements under the Obama administrations, it was a couple of years if memory serves,
SUCK IT Readering, just SUCK IT
well this was the initial pause,
https://hftm.org/blog/?p=850
how about this twist, from theranos to burisma,
https://twitter.com/ArthurSchwartz/status/1197294743648194561
also Weinstein, since last year, remember how boies tried to dirty up dershowitz, it turns out it was just vapor,
According to Readering, it's a majority when he/she agrees with it and it's an undemocratic minority when he/she doesn't.
I'm just positive this was the same opinion held when Clinton lost the house by a larger margin in 1994, as well as Obama losing the house by an even larger margin in 2010.
You know, this majority/minority thing.
One member of Schiff's "committee of public safety" sees to claim that the President has no right to interfere with Congress' foreign policy arrangements because "the House has the power of the purse."
However, that principle has historically been taken to apply only in a negative fashion, i.e., the Executive, Henry the nth or the U.S. President, is supposed to be the reckless one who needs to be restrained when necessary by denying him funds for his foreign adventures.
In parliamentary systems, the House today may argue these issues directly with the Prime Minister, but the U.S. Constitution does not read that way.
really terrified here:
https://twitter.com/JohnWHuber/status/1197277118075416576
BTW, Readering ... you do recall 57 percent of voters choose somebody other than Bill Clinton in 1992.
But, yeah. Majority.
fusion susan Hennessey is sad, do you have to be crazy to work at the nsc, I think it's a credential,
BUMBLE BEE said...
SUCK IT Readering, just SUCK IT
Ditto.
Such a shame we live in a Republic bound by laws and a written Constitution and not a moboracy. Seems almost like we want to protect everyone's rights, even the evil unpopular people.
so did they look for zylochevsky in Monaco, where he holds court like a bond villain each spring,
Believe me, Readering. You would not like living in a democracy. Be thankful you live in the Republic you do, and enjoy it while you can. Because if and when the Dems take over all houses and the White House, the Republic will end, and you will get your democracy. And at some point you won't be in the majority, and you'll find that you wanted individual rights all along.
The reason we have 2 Senators from each state is to do exactly what this Senate is about to do. Make sure that no overbearing, corrupt bunch of reps from overpopulated cities end up running the country.
It's all checks and balances. And the final check and balance, for when the reps and Senate get out of control, is the 2nd Amendment. That's why we all treasure it so much. You didn't think it was just for hunting, did you?
Looks like a majority of the voters acting through their Representatives will soon impeach him.
Yes. Democrats will strip voters of their power to vote directly to remove the president for behavior, that is shaking the the very norms of politics as usual.
I don't know why Democrats hate elections, but my bet, it has something to do with voters not voting the way Democrats demand.
The Ballad of Hunter Biden
(with apologies to the Grateful Dead)
Drivin’ that train, high on cocaine
Ukraine cash won’t you, pay my bills
China in front of me, Dad’s the VP
Don’t you know that baby, really is mine
I liked the 2018 elections.
only when they lose, fox is still going wall to wall with this, makes the Beverly hills 90210 revamp seems animated
“Burisma indictments today.”
Fake news.
Inga of hoax russia collusion / hoax dossier / hoax emoluments violations / hoax Kavanaugh gang rape claims / etc etc etc would like to chat about Fake News.
Discuss.
It seems like only yesterday Inga told us that Trump feared Avenatti, the Fake Hispanic Beto campaign, fake indian Warren campaign, fake human Kamala campaign, Li'l Southbend mayor campaign, Sleepy Creepy Joey Burisma Biden campaign, etc.
Good times, good times...
Inga, what are hoping to get for Mueller-Mas??
LOLOLOL
readering lays it out pretty clearly. to me it reads as strongly supporting the protections our founders built in against majoritarianism, but if you believe in democracy, this must be galling. whether you support impeachment or not. I may be in the minority, but I find it to be entertaining. at first guiltily so, but seeing readering lay it out that way, less so. let's be done with all the puffery, and see our elected officials for what they are, and our majorities for what they would wreak. hail to the electoral college, the senate, the checks and balances and their durability. maybe the norms that seem to be being destroyed were all civility bullshit.
Burisma indictments today.
I think this explains the whole impeachment charade. It looks like a whole bunch of Dems and their spawn were bleeding Ukraine to the tune of 7.5 billion dollars.
Now the Dems will cry these indictments are what Trump ordered up for Ukraine to get their funding.
When all this impeachment bullshit got started I thought maybe it was because Ginsberg was a goner or the FISA abuse report was going to be devastating. But that didn't really make sense since they are not connected.
These indictments make sense.
Jim at: "According to Readering, it's a majority when he/she agrees with it and it's an undemocratic minority when he/she doesn't."
readering is still reeling from the irrefutable fact that the Labour Party in Britain is completely anti-semitic and fully aligned with radical islamic supremacists.
So much so that multiple Labour Party leaders and members have quit Labour outright.
An alignment that mirrors the AOC/Omar/Tlaib dems in the US.
I can vouch that a lot of long-time labour voters are seriously disgusted with the party and voting LibDem if at all, and quietly hoping the Tories win and they can get on with things. Corbyn is incredibly divisive. These things are clarifying. This is to the good, even if a little ugly.
interesting when you try to link from legal insurrection, you get a redirect,
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/11/schiffs-latest-impeachment-witness-laura-cooper-uses-second-hand-info-to-testify-about-trumps-hold-on-military-aid-for-ukraine-video/
KIEV (Reuters) - Ukraine has widened its investigation into the founder of energy company Burisma to include suspicion of embezzling state funds, Prosecutor General Ruslan Ryaboshapka said on Wednesday.
Of course they want to blame Trump for looking into this corruptiosn.
Reuters could not independently verify the extent of Kulyk’s involvement, but a source close to the energy company saw a spike in activity by Kulyk in regards to Burisma after Giuliani’s interest in the company and the Bidens had been conveyed to Kulyk’s then superior, Yuriy Lutsenko. - Reuters.
But if it’s real, I don’t see how blaming Trump for the investigation helps Biden out of this mess.
Fake news? Whom to believe... Doesn’t look like fake news to me. It looks like Burisma has lost the cover of powerful Democrats.
"but a source close to the energy company” that is to say a Burisma source. Who was it? Ciaramella or Vindman? Maybe his nibs himself, Hunter Biden.
I wonder if Vindman's name will come up in the Burisma investigation?
Not the LTCOL but his older brother:
Leonid Simon Vindman, Founder and Managing Partner, Tungsten Capital Advisors, has approximately thirty years of experience in the financial markets. During the past twenty five years, he has been focusing predominantly on Central Eastern Europe, Russia and Central Asia where he completed some of the biggest investment and advisory transactions in the region.
http://www.tungstencapitaladvisors.com/Leadership.html
Tungsten doesn't seem to have a lot of employees:
We are supported by other experienced professionals as needed.
As mentioned above, they have a subsidiary(?) affiliate(?) Sister company(?) called "Art Research Advisors"
Maria Starkova-Vindman, Founder and Managing Partner, Art Research Advisors, is an art historian and art advisor, with fifteen years of experience of working across the academic, curatorial and business areas within the arts.
(All of the above from the same Tungsten link)
Art has always been a good way to launder money.
And I guess it is not the least suspicious that LTCOL Vindman has a security clearance AND a Russian sister-in-law engaged in the money laundering/Art dealing business? I don't know about the money laundering but the opportunities are there.
So will the Ukrainians be taking a look at the Vindman family?
Oh, and Epstein didn't kill himself. (And maybe nobody did)
John Henry
seizing on some truthful elements. - Republicans pounced!
ZeroHedge is not a trustworthy source, though there is usually a grain of truth, but it is telling that Democrats seem to be shilling still for Burisma, which was built on self dealing by a former government minister who now seems to be in hiding.
It is amazing that people like readering and Inga still defend the obvious corruption of the Obama administration.
It is now clear that most of that "foreign aid" to Ukraine was laundered right back into democrat crony bank accounts.
But yeah impeach Trump for wanting that investigated.
These are disgusting people.
I don’t know if this is the same poll that Althouse mentioned earlier, but it sure looks like Democrats should maybe stop digging on this bullshit impeachment.
https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1197223519702126610
Can anyone tell the difference between Cuck and ARM’s comments?
" Looks like a majority of the voters acting through their Representatives will soon impeach him. Remains to be seen what a minority of the voters acting through the undemocratic Senate seems likely to do with that bill of impeachment.”
He’s already sucking his thumb on account of he knows they have lost. Democrats have abused their power of impeachment for political gain. They have turned it into one more of their jokes.
BTW, this Interfax article doesn’t seem that easy to dismiss. Though it is funny that Reuters went to sources close to Bursisma to get their take. Reuters is trying to spin the story with DNC talking points. Why would the DNC care about corruption in Ukraine?
https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/press-conference/625831.html
AFP retracts a story when it became clear that the children in detention were under Obama... They deleted the story, rather than modifying it to make it clear that it was Obama. The same Obama who put children in cages. Once it wasn’t about Trump, who cares about the 100,000 children?
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1196897651423358976
Is this the first time in history a news headline has actually been debunked mid-hearing?
“A president has a right to seek answers about them, whether or not doing so has collateral implications for an election...”
Why use this jabber about collateral implications? Is this acknowledging that it is bad if the desire is only motivated by self-interest re political advantage?
BTW, is it cool that BHO asked Russians (in trade for US letting them control more of the mid E) to create the dossier cause BHO was interested in ending crime? Crime like hookers peeing on beds.
BTW, I thought we’re still supposed to believe that DJT wasn’t interested in getting investigations announced. DJT said so. Why are his defenders assuming he’s full of shit? See why DJT doesn’t want to open that door? Ya got lie with him all the way. Can’t say some stuff is a lie, but you can trust some of the other stuff.
Duh.
I don't know about you guys but I thought today went quite well.
1984 is a how to manual.
Look what we have here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/benktallmadge/status/1197260994461847552?s=21
Devin Nunes looks a little concerned, but I am sure he will shake it off. It's just a flesh wound.
"I don't know about you guys but I thought today went quite well.”
It sure looked like it was going to for you guys if you read the press before any testimony happened!
The polls though, seem to be heading in a direction, not just the Wisconsin poll referenced above, that indicate maybe it’s not going so good for your side.
But keep repeating your mantra, if it helps you sleep well.
$7.5 billion Burisma slush fund. Leads to Susan Rice and Vindman. Vindman is tainted.
It’s starting to break open.
Not tired of winning yet!
And Iran’s starting to burn.
It’s a good day.
Per Skylark and others,
"What they were trying to cover up with this impeachment, but instead they just brought attention to it."
7.4 billion. That's 7,400 times one million dollars. Or 740 x 10 million. Or 74 x one hundred million. How many hands were in that cookie jar? All we're haggling about now is the price.
To readering: I've never been one to attack you, but seriously now, you want this overlooked??
Seinfeld-esque hearings
...an impeachment about nothing
George, pants around ankles, desperately runs out: "Vindman Industries!!
Clinton stayed, readering. No biggie anymore. As 23 flights on Epstein’s Lolita Express backs up his vileness.
What is Trump being impeached for?
I’m still not clear.
Small words please and keep it short.
I actually read this article earlier today. It is the best argument I have heard in defense of Trump. Not a single Republican politician, member of Trump's administration nor Trump himself has come even close to the quality of this defense. It's all just bullshit denial. He is surrounded by incompetents and idiots, and he chose most of them himself.
I want democratic corruption looked into. However whenever now.
anti-de Sitter space said...
“A president has a right to seek answers about them, whether or not doing so has collateral implications for an election...”
Why use this jabber about collateral implications? Is this acknowledging that it is bad if the desire is only motivated by self-interest re political advantage?
jabber indeed.
BTW, is it cool that BHO asked Russians (in trade for US letting them control more of the mid E) to create the dossier cause BHO was interested in ending crime? Crime like hookers peeing on beds.
It just shows how stupid you are that you think this is a useful paragraph.
BTW, I thought we’re still supposed to believe that DJT wasn’t interested in getting investigations announced. DJT said so. Why are his defenders assuming he’s full of shit? See why DJT doesn’t want to open that door? Ya got lie with him all the way. Can’t say some stuff is a lie, but you can trust some of the other stuff.
Duh.
We can trust a lot of democrats and their GOPe cuck allies were getting rich laundering foreign aid money in kick back payments.
It is in the national interest to have this investigated.
The fact you think Trump asking Ukraine to investigate deep state corruption is an impeachable offense just makes you a piece of shit.
Be sure to wish Grandpa Joe a happy 77th. His 6th grandkid is on the way. Good thing hunter can afford child support right?
Here is the only part of Sondland's testimony that matters for the issue at hand- it came after the break and after Schiff and the media went wild proclaiming that Sondland implicated Trump, Pence, Pompeo, and others in directly claiming a quid pro quo during the morning testimony- it was cross examination by Representative Turner:
Representative Turner: "After you testified, Chairman [Adam] Schiff ran out and gave a press conference and said he gets to impeach the president of the United States because of your testimony and if you pull up CNN today, right now, their banner says ‘Sondland ties Trump to withholding aid,' Is that your testimony today, Ambassador Sondland? That you have evidence that Donald Trump tied the investigations to the aid? Because I don’t think you’re saying that.”
Sondland: “I’ve said repeatedly Congressman, I was presuming."
Representative Turner: “So, no one told you? Giuliani didn’t tell you? Mulvaney didn’t tell you? Pompeo didn’t tell you? Nobody else on this planet told you that Donald Trump was tying aid to these investigations, is that correct?”
Sondland: “I think I already testified....."
Representative Turner: “No, answer the question- is it correct? No one on this planet told you that Donald Trump was tying aid to the investigations? Because if your answer is ‘yes,’ then the chairman is wrong and the headline on CNN is wrong. No one on this planet told you that President Trump was tying aid to investigations, yes or no?”
Sondland: “Yes."
Representative Turner: “So, you really have no testimony today that ties President Trump to a scheme to withhold aid from Ukraine in exchange for these investigations?”
Sondland: “Other than my own presumption."
Me again:
Sondland was tried to evade the Turner's question, but Turner eventually forced Sondland to answer it. Sondland had only his opinion about the matter, and no actual evidence first person or hearsay. This section literally exonerates Trump from Sondland's perspective.
Go ahead, try to impeach Trump on Sondland's testimony- this one section completely destroys the plan. Only the idiots and the liars still believe this new hoax.
Epstein didn’t kill himself.
See R,
The Founders included impeachment to precisely deal with an executive that tries to scheme with a foreign gov to manipulate or elections. Hence needing an option other than an election. Must strictly enforce this. To avoid opening the door to tyranny.
Good-bye, Franklin Templeton. I hope you don’t have any money there.
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
Devin Nunes looks a little concerned, but I am sure he will shake it off. It's just a flesh wound.
We are all concerned. You and your stupid reddit post about a picture. What a joke you have all become.
What crime did Trump commit?
You fuckwits are burning down anything resembling common principles and norms of a functioning Republic.
You want to impeach Trump because he asked the Ukranians to investigate the Bidens, Burisma, and corruption during the 2016 election.
Fuck you.
War.
"Devin Nunes looks a little concerned,"
At least he blinks.
Honestly- I don't know how any sane person would not look a LOT concerned at this point. A previous President used the IRS to silence opposition going into his reelection. And the press and his party covered up for him. What became of that? Nothing. That same previous President then used his UN Ambassador to unmask numerous Americans on domestic calls, funded (with the Hillary campaign) a fictional dossier, falsified FISA warrants to spy on an opposing campaign. Still- the media and Dems (but I repeat myself) covered up and did nothing. The Demedia then use this fictional story to harass and tie-up the current President for 3 years shouting Russia! Collusion! Traitor! for years.
When that did not work, they moved onto this. And what is this? Exactly nothing. But they are about to impeach the President and try to remove him from office for hearsay. You getting this? Oh..they've now moved to call it bribery. The previous President sent pallet-loads of US dollars to the Mullahs of Iran, without Congressional approval, without any approval. He did it to win favor from them. He sent them money for nothing- hoping to get something in return. What would one call that? Hmm...
He then lied to the American people and Congress telling them it was a video- er no, wait- that was another incident... telling the American people that he did not send money to Iran. But he did. He actually tried to bribe the terrorist, fascist leaders of Iran. Hoping for what in return?
Nunes should look concerned. I can pretty much guarantee you, there are a lot of Americans who are concerned. Not about Trump. But about the state of our country being run by such corrupt putzes as the Demedia and State Dept. employees. I don't recall voting for State Dept. employees.
The thing about the Left is that they will do anything to acquire power and to keep it. The thing about the American people is that, at some point, they will have had enough.
"I want democratic corruption looked into. However whenever now."
I want ALL government corruption looked into. It's been going on for awhile. The Chicago mob under Obama accelerated it for sure.
Suprising that that wonderful charity the Clintons were running hasn't been able to make ends meet lately. Well, maybe not that suprising.
“You want to impeach Trump because he asked the Ukranians to investigate the Bidens, Burisma, and corruption during the 2016 election. “
You can’t admit that. Unless you agree DJT is a liar. He wants you to claim he didn’t ask for anything. Don’t be a cuck who falls for the MSM that says DJT is a liar.
Since people really aren’t listening, does anyone care?
anti-de Sitter space said...
See R,
The Founders included impeachment to precisely deal with an executive that tries to scheme with a foreign gov to manipulate or elections. Hence needing an option other than an election. Must strictly enforce this. To avoid opening the door to tyranny.
That is just fucking stupid.
It is going to be fun watching you jokers defend the millions deep staters grifted out of these foreign aid programs.
Democrats/GOPe cucks getting rich off of corruption is OK by you.
Trump asking other countries to investigate? Impeach!
You are really just terrible people.
anti-de Sitter space said...
“You want to impeach Trump because he asked the Ukranians to investigate the Bidens, Burisma, and corruption during the 2016 election. “
You can’t admit that. Unless you agree DJT is a liar. He wants you to claim he didn’t ask for anything. Don’t be a cuck who falls for the MSM that says DJT is a liar.
lolgf'd.
Trump did nothing wrong. He did exactly what we want done and what any decent person would want done.
You defend corruption epitomized.
You are a terrible person.
adSs: "You can’t admit that. Unless you agree DJT is a liar."
The lefty lies are getting more and more transparent.
The lefties keep claiming Trump was asking for a quid pro quo investigation for 2020 election purposes.
Never happened.
Boy, the lefties spent 3 full years telling us we have to get to the bottom of what happened in 2016.......right up until the point where the last thing they want to figure out is what happened in 2016......because the lefties/dems/LLR-lefties know full well what they pulled in 2015/2016/2017 and don't want anyone else to find out about it.
The biggest money laundering scheme/weaponization of foreign powers to interfere in the 2016 election of our dem hacks than at any other time in our nations history.
Fortunately, it appears those investigations into what happened in 2016 are continuing despite the corrupt hack dems screaming bloody murder.
Somebody must be over the target....
Seeing Red said...
Since people really aren’t listening, does anyone care?
This board is populated by people who know far more than the average voter. All of us have a solid idea of what has happened.
Most of America is finding out exactly what is actually happening: Trump is being impeached because he is bringing down the deep state corruption ring.
The leftists here know what is happening, they are just pieces of shit.
Most people out there will side with Trump on this when they learn what happened and the democrats know this.
Drago all your points could be made and confirmed is a more clear manner one way or the other if Trump would release his tax returns, but he won’t do that any more then he would testify under oath. So we have to wonder just how much is he hiding.
See Ach,
Drag knows that you always repeat DJT. DJT never asked for anything! Drag is not a cuck who excuses what DJT denies has occurred.
Ach is lamestream cuck who says DJT is a liar.
The plural of POS could go a few ways.
adSs,
Keep beating that strawman, you will defeat it one of these days.
Trump asked Zelensky to look into the 2016 election meddling, and Trump agreed that the Biden/Burisma thing looked bad (brought up Zelenksky, by the way). No one is denying that. What is being denied is that Trump used the release of the aid as coercion, and that allegation has been denied by everyone who was in a position to know. Not a single witness has been been able to say that Trump told him the aid was being being held up until the Ukrainian government investigated Burisma- not one witness to date.
You guys still need a witness who will say "Trump told me there was a quid pro quo". Absent that, you got shit, and you know it.
Some guys just never get the memo. Hey dudes--after 2016 there was a new Sheriff in town--and henceforth we'd play by the new Sheriff's rules. And the voters sent the new Sheriff to do that very thing.
Yes it represents a change from business as usual; and some swamp toads and lizards (I'm looking at you Lt. Colonel Vindman) might find that "troubling". Get over it.
And this change in policy, as the residents of the Oval Office change, has been going on for a couple of hundred years. The merry go round goes round and round, and the smart folks figure out which seat/policy is coming around next, and get with the program. The dumb ones whine that the policy has changed.
OF COURSE DJT lied!
I’m not tired of winning yet!
So, um, what’s the taxes on $7.5 billion?
All that money those rich people won’t pay......doesn’t the Biden clan have enough?
Anybody who really believed in the principles claimed in that NYT op-ed would love Rep. Justin Amash. But it isn’t about principles, or smaller government. Trump’s Administration is spending more, and running up vastly greater national debts than the Obama Administration did.
Trumpists hate Amash because Trumpism is all about the personal worship of Trump.
A great Tweet today from appellate lawyer Brian Givden reminded us conservatives that no matter how much we might dislike Democrats, targeting them and selling out security interests is no good, because it won’t “end with them [Democrats]. Don’t doubt for a second that if Ted Cruz had tried to primary Trump, he’d be next.”
And of course the really big thing is that before, during and after this particular Trump outrage, there was no sincere effort to do anything new about Ukrainian corruption. Trump didn’t care about any investigation. The “deliverable” for Trump was the announcement of an investigation. Not any results of an investigation.
Actual stephen mcintyre john solomon, sean davis look past whatever press release, is ussued by some over credentialed barista faxed over from fusion.
A modest tax cut, some necessary defense rebuild, but the trillions in stimulus apending that went nowhere likewise with the money that didnt buy up the distressed assets through tarp what planet are they on?
Trump’s Administration is spending more, and running up vastly greater national debts than the Obama Administration did.
I am sorry, Chuck (glad to see you are back, by the way) remind me again who appropriates the money the Trump Administration has spent? Sure, Trump can criticized for not vetoing anything in the long run, and I agree that Trump probably doesn't give a shit about the deficit and the debt, but it has been Congress under both parties now that have been writing the checks and directing the spending, not Trump. Hell, I don't even blame Obama- I blamed the Democrats in 2009-2011, and I gave the blame back to the Republicans 2015-2019. It is Congress here that has to act, not the President.
We’re at $40 trillion in debt?
Who said that?
On the Ukraine indictments-
This looks like a real story. I have been translating some of the articles using Google, and I don't think this is fake news. If the Ukrainians have reached this point, then I think it probably true that they have tracked some of the money to the American accounts. And if this is true, then you can bet the farm that Barr and the DoJ are looking into it in detail on the American side.
“ What is being denied is that Trump used the release of the aid as coercion,”
The public meeting being used as coercion is also denied by DJT.
BTW, the reason that smart people, like the stuff Althouse linked, are justifying the extortion (unlike full denial folks like you and DJT) is cause DJT did delay. And only the awareness of the whistle blower broke the delay. (Likewise DJT’s jabber re not wanting anything.)
IOW, at some point y’all need to explain the delay. DJT is too dumb to see that fact. Or, he assumes you followers are too dumb for logic, so he can shit on you cause it’s funny when you eat it.
I dunno.
Did the former rapist-in-chief ever go here?
Via Lucianne: Dozens of new photos and video give the most revealing look yet into Jeffrey Epstein's notorious 'baby making ranch' in the New Mexico desert, including his eight person party shower that is outfitted with dozens of bottles of oils, DailyMail(dot)com can exclusively reveal. The dead financier used the 10,000-acre Zorro Ranch as a playground for his VIP guests, who he brought to the secluded estate a few times a year, entertaining his entourage of 30 with four-wheelers and rumored illicit activities.(Snip) Another source says security cameras were secretly fitted in every room and recorded the behavior of the rich and famous,...
Blogger roesch/voltaire said...
Drago all your points could be made and confirmed is a more clear manner one way or the other if Trump would release his tax returns, but he won’t do that any more then he would testify under oath. So we have to wonder just how much is he hiding.
RV:
Just what is it you think you will find in Donald Trump's tax returns?
John Henry
Re the demand to see PDJT's tax returns:
This seems to be some sort of holy grail/magic squirrel for the progfas. I suspect that PDJT has you pegged. Why you are chasing around complaining that you can't see his taxes, he is getting shit done. I suspect that he has nothing really to hid in them but knows that not releasing them provide a major distraction.
Why the fascists (progressives) are hyperventilating about taxes, he has, among other things, appointed more than 25% of all federal judges. He has gotten 2 of his SC pics confirmed and sooner or later, probably before the election, he will get a third. And there is nothing, nothing at all, that the fascists can do to stop him.
Best of all, all his picks are young and believe in the Constitution. They are going to be around for a long, long time. Even if the fascists do get back in power, they will find that these judges put the kibosh on many of their silder schemes.
And then there is the economy, immigration, the wall, trade, NoKo, the Middle East, reduced medical costs, reduced drug costs, deregulation and all his other successes.
Oh yeah, increased taxes on the rich. Not increased tax rates, they fell, as they did for everyone. But increased taxes because they can no longer deduct property taxes over a certain limit. And increased taxes on the high earners (some of whom might be wealthy too) because they can no longer deduct state income taxes.
And right now, the fascists got nothing. In what universe are any of the current candidates qualified to run a used avocado stand? Other than Bloomberg, if he runs. I don't like his policies but he does have experience running things.
PDJT through 2024, then Ivanka or Don Jr. Pence can stay on as permanent VP through 2040. By then I'll be dead and it will be someone else's problem.
So yeah, RV, keep fucking that tax return chicken. I hope it makes you happy.
john Henry
“remind me again who appropriates the money the Trump Administration has spent?“
Ha ha.
FTR, this is the thread re it’s good for DJT to hold up appropriated dough.
Yur funny.
adSs: "BTW, the reason that smart people, like the stuff Althouse linked, are justifying the extortion..."
LOLOLOLOLOL
adSs is at least 3 talking points behind!!
Well, you know what they say: there is always 10 to 20% who never get the updated word.....
Better luck with your dated lies next time adSs!!
Thoughts and prayers.
asDs,
If not meeting Zelensky was part a bribe or a quid pro quo, then all of Congress will have to resign since not a one of them doesn't give priority for face to face meetings to campaign donors- not a one of them. This is just ridiculous, and there is still no evidence that Trump actually said to anyone that a meeting was contingent on anything from the Ukrainians- at best Sondland was laying this off on Giuliani. Since everyone else contradicted Sondland's assertions- Pence, Pompeo, and Perry- as Sondland was making them today, I think it likely Sondland was wrong about what Giuliani said, too.
You got anything else?
Oh look. Aid was held up to Lebanon and Central America at the same time as Ukrain:
https://twitter.com/joelpollak/status/1197335118945378306
I guess the threat was “Give us dirt on Biden or Lebanon gets it!"
Hoax Conservative LLR Chuck: "Anybody who really believed in the principles claimed in that NYT op-ed would love Rep. Justin Amash."
Amash is the wholly owned Chinese political subsidiary and secret lefty who pretended to be a republican to get elected only to expose himself as a typical democrat.
Anash's approval rating in his district is right around Negative Eleventeen.
Roughly.
On a "good" day.
Sometimes.
If the Chinese Generals allow it.
Blogger Seeing Red said...
So, um, what’s the taxes on $7.5 billion?
Wouldn't that depend on whether it is income or wealth?
If income, about 35%, right? or about $2.6 billion.
If wealth, zip, nada, zilch, zero. We do not tax wealth in the US. At the federal level, anyway. With a few minor exceptions for the pedants.
Kind like Jeff Bezos with his $120 billion in wealth. how much tax does he pay?
Well, his taxable gross income is $89,000/yr so he probably pays about $10-15,000 in federal income tax. (Decimal places and zeros are correct)
Not a penny on his $120bn in wealth.
Sound good to me!
John Henry
adSs: "FTR, this is the thread re it’s good for DJT to hold up appropriated dough."
Obama permanently withheld military aud to Ukraine for 3 full years.
Number of adSs comments critical of that policy remains at an even ZERO.
unexpectedly.
Although restoring the money, hasnt stabilozed the lebanese economy, in fa r its a hot mess.
FTR, this is the thread re it’s good for DJT to hold up appropriated dough.
Yur funny.
No, you are just ignorant. Almost all the money that is spent by the federal government must be spent per the instructions of Congress (there is an actual law preventing the executive from impounding appropriations). The Ukraine appropriation in question is one of the rare instances where the Executive Branch is given the power to spend it or not, and for very good reasons- Congress doesn't want to have to put in the work to make it doesn't get stolen by a foreign government. However 99% of the budget gives the executive no discretion on spend/don't spend, and very little discretion on how to spend it either. Basically, if Congress appropriates 3 trillion dollars, the executive has to spend 3 trillion dollars on something.
adSs: "Drag knows that you always repeat DJT. DJT never asked for anything!"
Which the transcripts and the wutness testimony clearly demonstrates.
Maybe its time for you to return to your Kavanaugh raped 5,000 women as the leader of a Maryland based roving rape gang lies.
It would be just as effective!
#FlailingAlongWithLeftyLLRChuckForSomethingAnything!!
Blogger Yancey Ward said...
On the Ukraine indictments-
This looks like a real story.
Nope. I hat to say it but Inga is right. Apparently no "indictment" The Ukrainian legal system is different from ours.
OTOH, they have, apparently according to Reuters, issued what translates as a "Sworn statement of suspicion" which is roughly the eauivalent of an "indictment" in US law.
But it is not called an "indictment" and Inga gets the laugh on those saying it is.
John Henry
For the record, by the way, I actually thought Trump made a mistake giving Ukraine the money and weapons- I am all but certain that most of it will end up in some oligarch's pockets and the weapons will just get sold on the black market at a discount. It is just foolish to give the Ukraine anything at this point in time.
New York Times columnist and CBS News political analyst Jamelle Bouie addressed a closed-door gathering of the Democratic Party's top donors last week in potential violation of the paper's ethical guidelines, which prohibit paid speeches to political groups and urge staff members to be "especially sensitive to the appearance of partiality when they address groups that might figure in coverage they provide." The Democratic establishment, its donor class, and the party's strategy has been a regular subject of Bouie's columns and of his political analysis on CBS News, where he is a frequent guest on the network's flagship Sunday program Face the Nation. ...
Via Lucianne.
John Henry,
An indictment by any other name.......
I don't spend time nitpicking translations like Inga.
Is it too late for R/V to contact Mueller and Weissman with his/her/xer Trump Tax Return Super Timely Hot Take???
You know, if only there had been a multiyear unlimited budget "investigation" into Trump by a team of fully empowered democrat Trump-hating DOJ Deep Staters who had full power to go anywhere in the world and anywhere in govt with full access to all relevant govt records to determine if Trump had violated a law.
Quick!! Someone dial up Rod Rosenstein, STAT!!
The main difference, by the way, is that the US has the grand jury system gifted to us through common law, the Ukrainians have a system where the "indictments" don't come down approved by a group of ordinary citizens, and neither does most of the non-commonwealth 1st world. So, if you limit the definition of "indictment" to charges leveled by a grand jury, then, no, the Ukraine didn't indict the oligarch, but the effect is the same- it is charge that would bring him to court in Ukraine if he can be found.
Yes 'ukrainian justice' operates a little french or italian, judges instruct prosecutors on what cases to open and which to close
LLR Chuck is very very very upset that the US economy is rockin and rolling despite it being during a period of global sluggishness and recession.
LLR Chuck gets very very very upset when he cant credit his "magnificent" obama for it!!
Not even his beloved "brilliant" Maddow and super duper "competent" Duckie "US Troops are Gestapo" Durbin are dumb enough to try and make that farcical argument stick.
But then again, that's our Chuck!!
I know, Yancey,
I was just funnin' ya. You are absolutely right, the equivalent of an indictment does seem to have been issued and I have no problem calling it an "indictment" for simplicity.
I was really mainly mocking Inga saying "NO INDICTMENT, NO INDICTMENT!!!!!
John Henry
Oh no lefties/LLR-lefties!!
It appears foreign aid to many countries was held up at the same time as Ukraine demonstrating a broad policy implementation across the board!!
Cue Sad Trombone.
Communists and LLR's hardest hit.
All I want is a much smaller government.
See Ach,
There are lots of folks who don’t make justifications re holding up the dough and public meeting? Just like DJT wants you to do? Likewise, this stuff linked by Althouse. Don’t say DJT ever asked for anything!
[That way it’ll be funnier when you need to, later on, admit DJT did want something, hence there were delays (that were only lifted by the whistle blower’s revelations) re dough/meeting. That’s when you do a 180 and say, ‘of course DJT used leverage to fight international crime, and the resulting suffering of women, children and gimps in Ukraine. The administration folks will have no problem going under oath re that.]
Via Instapundit:
Amb. Sondland Admits He Has No Evidence Trump Tied Ukraine Military Aid to Investigations Other Than His 'Own Presumption'
Crazy Jane said...
All I want is a much smaller government.
If you count collective IQ as one measure of government then I think your wish has come true.
BTW, re the headline of this post: during the election DJT publicly asked foreigners to break our laws to help his campaign.
So, sure he’s doing what he was elected to do. Now he’s using tax dough in return. What motivated the foreign govs (like Russia) last time re supporting DJT. Con economics connects incentives with people being incentivized. Makes sense.
What motivated the foreign govs (like Russia) last time re supporting DJT.
Now I know peanut has gone completely bonkers. Peanut, that was last month's conspiracy theory,.
Just a small example why do we need more people on the nsc then the un general assembly, are we getting better data.
Pffft he didn’t take the caps off the credit card payments, did he?
Didn’t an Obama donor just get outed for running foreign donations?
Switch out the abba eight track.
Doc Mike,
The entire US gov admits that. Even DJT. Remember when he “misspoke” re believing Putin?
One of the details mcintyre points out is many oligarchs either fund candidates in the rada or are members of it, and hence had immunity.
anti-de Sitter space said...
See Ach,
There are lots of folks who don’t make justifications re holding up the dough and public meeting? Just like DJT wants you to do? Likewise, this stuff linked by Althouse. Don’t say DJT ever asked for anything!
Trump asked Ukraine to investigate corruption.
All decent people want to know who was taking our money and want to see justice.
Pieces of shit like you don't care about democrats/republicans getting rich laundering our tax dollars in kickback schemes.
[That way it’ll be funnier when you need to, later on, admit DJT did want something, hence there were delays (that were only lifted by the whistle blower’s revelations) re dough/meeting. That’s when you do a 180 and say, ‘of course DJT used leverage to fight international crime, and the resulting suffering of women, children and gimps in Ukraine. The administration folks will have no problem going under oath re that.]
Trump has released all transcripts of these communications. He has been the most transparent president in decades.
It is democrats that are hiding things and keeping secrets.
Except we have already seen their bank accounts fattening up with Burisma money.
Looks like the President of Burisma, after being indicted in Ukraine, has gone missing.
Chance of "suicide" is high.
Naw hes probably sipping absintbee in monaco, thats more a provence drink but still
anti-de Sitter space said...
BTW, re the headline of this post: during the election DJT publicly asked foreigners to break our laws to help his campaign.
That was an obvious joke.
It is fun to watch you pass off Hillary's crimes as nothing. Hillary broke numerous laws mishandling TS/SCI/NOFORN material. Then she destroyed evidence under subpoena.
But you don't care. Because you are a piece of shit.
But Trump making a joke about the foreign governments that stole that information off her illegal personal servers returning information she illegally destroyed before the FBI could get it?
Impeach!
We know you believe Hillary when she said she only deleted wedding plans and yoga appointments because you are a fucking idiot.
So, sure he’s doing what he was elected to do. Now he’s using tax dough in return. What motivated the foreign govs (like Russia) last time re supporting DJT. Con economics connects incentives with people being incentivized. Makes sense.
Only a complete retard would write something this stupid and think anyone would fall for it.
You can't point to a single Trump policy that is more favorable to Russia than Obama was.
Setting what Trump wanted aside, the Defense Department person testified tonight that they certified Ukraine as making enough anti-corruption strides to receive US money just days after Zilinksi was elected, and the decision had been made prior to that.
It sounds like a really dumb process, designed to give away money. A corrupt country has a corrupt president, and when someone new is elected there's no deeper investigation process to certify them.
Peanut you are nuts. Last word.
Fron the javelins to the sanctions to smashing prigozhins toy soldiers pulling out of stupid new start.
Its much like the fisa rubberstanp the application, dont sanction the banks that lost the money.
"It's all just bullshit denial."
-- As the defense, that's all they need to do. They do not need to prove a single, damn thing.
"Sondland: “Other than my own presumption.""
-- My understanding is that testimony would be completely inadmissible in court as it assumes the state of mind of some other person.
"Drago all your points could be made and confirmed is a more clear manner one way or the other if Trump would release his tax returns"
-- A person is not required to release evidence that could be used against them -- that includes an innocent man revealing something that may be viewed as only exculpatory. To presume because a person does not release evidence to acquit themselves implies their guilt is *fundamentally un-American.*
Insty linked to a list of things Tri p has done that we’re not favorable to Russia.
Trump never boasted he’d have more flexibility.
Release yours. Are they as co placated as his?
Complicated.
Are you a tax professional? Would you understand them?
The intelligence assessment although terribly wrong was ghe best advertising prigozhin could buy same for russian tv.
I agree with AOC.
"It’s not just Trump, but who else is going to be implicated in this and so, you know, I think when it comes to what we’ve discovered, we’re at the point of no return and it’s just a question of how many crimes have been potentially committed and who else has committed them.”
The Impeachers keep bringing up Russia as if it had been proven Trump actually worked with Russia during the election, rather than the opposite.
They are still trying to scratch that itch.
They know those three notes, maybee, they cant get past that.
"we’re at the point of no return and it’s just a question of how many crimes have been potentially committed and who else has committed them.”
-- I'd believe this if she actually was trying to prosecute every crime she found and not manufacture ones that, thus far, have had zero eyewitness testimony or evidence provided. Since she wants us to find crime, she thinks having Yonovich (or whatever) testify when she was acknowledged as having no information relating to the alleged crime was a waste of time and most likely unnecessarily prejudicial against the defense and should never have happened since that's time that can no longer be used to look at real crimes, and she's probably all for Stzork, Page, Mueller, Clinton and Comey all going to jail for their illegal leaks or various perjuries.
But he hired dubilier, because you dont want that reputation
Via Insty:
The Obama aide disclosure that shocked me wasn’t Lawrence Summers making $5 million at a hedge fund, but Tom Donilon “earning $3.9 million as a partner at the Washington law firm O’Melveny & Myers.” … Summers is a big-time economist, advising people with lots of money at stake on questions that involve, you know, equations. He had to “solve math puzzles” to get hired! I’d expect him to be expensive. But Donilon’s just a political Washington lawyer. He makes almost $4M? Wow. I didn’t know I’d fallen so far behind. Somebody really ought to do something about the growing income inequality in our society...
@Matt Sablan - Satire. Irony? Karma.
Rumor from AP:
"According to the AP, quoting a source familiar with the action, the FBI reached out to the whistleblower’s attorneys last month."
He was representing templeton which is working with black rock guess where?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/the-games-afoot-in-ukraine-burisma-reportedly-indicted-for-money-laundering/amp/
"That was an obvious joke.”
He can’t admit that it was a joke because the premise of the joke is that Hillary was careless with her security and had BTW, deleted 30K emails that she had been ordered to preserve by Congress. If he allowed himself to admit that, well, where would that lead?
"If you count collective IQ as one measure of government then I think your wish has come true.”
Since 2018.
Hes also oart of the buffett p
Institute.
You know im reminded of the church committe hearings, no not the intelligence ones but the corporate ones lockheed general dynamics mcdonnell douglas.
Kind like Jeff Bezos with his $120 billion in wealth. how much tax does he pay?
Well, his taxable gross income is $89,000/yr so he probably pays about $10-15,000 in federal income tax. (Decimal places and zeros are correct)
Not a penny on his $120bn in wealth.
Wrong. As he declared to Time a couple of years ago, what Jeff Bezos has been doing is every year he intends to sell a billion dollars worth of Amazon stock, then plunge the proceeds into further incremental funding for his space company Blue Origin.
Indeed, just 3 months back for this year Bezos sold an even greater allotment of $2.8 billion worth of Amazon stock for Blue Origin investment. Post-taxes that should be a sizable hunk of change. But the taxes on that should also be enormous — close to $1 billion at a 35% rate.
We’re going to need a flow chart or a score card.
Or trading cards.
Its a big board with pins like sherlock holmes game of shadows.
Matt Sablan said...
"It's all just bullshit denial."
-- As the defense, that's all they need to do. They do not need to prove a single, damn thing.
Have you finally figured out that they are enemies rather than opponents?
Ya know....every time I go to the Comments on this site, I go straight to the bottom.
WTF?
Can I change that?
Why should I assume I have anything original to say when I haven't seen prior comments???
“Trump asked Ukraine to investigate corruption.”
Wrong. He asked for nothing. Or he’s a liar! That can’t be.
Ya know....every time I go to the Comments on this site, I go straight to the bottom.
Yep. Instead of clicking on "comments", click on the highlighted heading. Then you get the story and comments from first to last.
”Why should I assume I have anything original to say when I haven't seen prior comments???“
There are only two original things to say in this thread.
1) DJT used pressure to save Ukraine from evil
2) DJT asked for nothing from Ukraine.
Even if foreign aid were tied to a political action, proving that it was an illegal quid pro quo is hard -- unless the Marshal Plan and Lend Lease Acts were illegal quid pro quos. Or Obama giving a speech at the Bradenburg Gate. Or any of a bazillion other examples.
First: You have to prove that the Ukraine aid was singled out.
Second: You have to prove that the Ukraine aid was linked to the Biden investigation.
Third: You have to prove that that linkage was improper.
Fourth: You have to prove that that linkage was not just bad politics/optics, but *illegal.*
We haven't even had one witness testify that they *know* the aid was linked to Biden. Just assumptions, presumptions and hearsay. One witness *couldn't even testify about the facts at hand because she wasn't around for them!* We know that the Ukraine aid was held up with several other foreign aid packages, so unless you can prove that it was held up along with the others for a special reason (or that the others were used to camouflage holding up the Ukraine aid), you can't even prove the first step anyway. You then have to prove that there's *only* an improper reason for asking for Biden to be investigate -- which again, is hard, since we have video evidence of Biden admitting to acting shifty, Yonavitch (who had nothing to condemn Trump, DID testify that even Obama thought Biden's actions were questionable), and that's before the Republicans make a case. Then, if you can prove the improper reason, you've got to prove it is illegal, and given the amount of give/take in foreign policy (for example, look at how Obama pressured Israel), that's going to be very, very hard.
The whistleblower is really the only person with testimony that *might* matter at this point.
(Technically, Yonovitch's testimony about Obama's state of mind regarding why she was prepped for Biden's actions related to Ukraine *might* be hearsay if she had said, "Obama said X," instead of "I was prepped for this because of Y," in which case she's not saying she was told X or Y, she's claiming the reason she was told something is Y. Now, she can be impeached on this and be shown that her reasoning is wrong, but, they'd need her or someone from the Obama administration to come in and testify that she was wrong in her reasoning about why she was prepped on Biden's actions regarding the Ukraine. Which, let's face it, Schiff is not letting that happen because nothing good will come from pursuing that line of reasoning for him.)
I will say this one last time adSs- Trump is saying that he was offering nothing in return for the investigations into corruption. The phone transcript was pretty damned clear on that, and it increasingly appears that he told no one any different- if he had, that witness would have already testified for Schiff.
This is the funny thing- at least half these witnesses are clear anti-Trump Democrats or NeverTrump Republicans, and yet not a single one them has offered anything other than their opinions about what was in Trump's mind. Schiff hasn't even been able to find someone brave enough to be a liar for his cause.
Yes Yanc,
I know that you’re saying DJT didn’t hold up aid or publicity re leverage to get Ukraine to announce an investigation. That’s one of the two types of comments folks are going with. Other folks say DJT did use this leverage, that’s the POV that DJT doesn’t approve of. So yur full DJT! Congratulations.
BTW, that wasn’t a transcript. Turns out folks who heard.the call tried to correct that “summary.” But, it was decided that a faulty document would be best.
Do you know why?
Michael
Us tax law is not something I am very knowledgeable about or up to date in my limited knowledge, but
My understanding is that if you "swap" one block of stock (Amazon, for example) for another block of stock (say, blue origin) of equal value, there are no taxes. This was true in the 70s,not sure if it still is.
In any event, when Bezos sells the Amazon stock to invest in blue origins, it becomes income or capital gain and is taxable as such.
As long as bezos holds the stock he is very wealthy but fairly middle class income with his $89,000 annual salary.
He may have some other income but he doesn't need it and as far as I've been able to found out, it isn't a lot.
Especially Relative to his wealth.
I was trying to make the point that rich people pay no taxes. Only people with income do. Lots of overlap between the two groups, of course. But there are plenty of high income people with little wealth and vice versa.
John Henry
If you get your dough on a W2 = yur a chump. Or yur not rich. Which is common. Don’t feel bad.
IMHO.
Well then:
https://mobile.twitter.com/ClimateAudit/status/1197385678725750784
You're too stupid to argue with adSs. No one who heard the call has said the transcript was wrong in any significant manner. Even Vindman admitted this was the case yesterday. If there were significant details omitted, Vindman would have brought them up yesterday, and when offered the opportunity to do so, said the transcript was correct for all intents and purposes. The "corrections" he offered were insignificant, as he admitted yesterday.
As for the "others" who claimed Trump did use this leverage not a single one of them was speaking from factual knowledge this was true- all of them said that this was their opinion, which doesn't mean shit and you know it. Opinions are cheap, actual evidence not so much. You are not going succeed with impeachment until you can find a witness or an authenticated document showing Trump directly threatened the Ukrainians for the investigations, and as of now you are running out of witnesses.
Yanc,
I liked your typo.
Freud in da house.
Someone brought up the fact that Biden put out a tweet talking about leaving the debate hours before it aired. People assumed that the tweet was put out ahead of schedule, and this may be true, but the debate might well have been taped this afternoon. I was always under the impression they were live, but what if they aren't, and are edited before broadcast?
What typo?
Anywho, you and I may be the only folks who will know that your original version was more accurate re the edited call summary that obscured DJT looking for Biden dirt.
Anywho, yur cool.
IMHO.
Hopefully you never switch to the side that says “damm right DJT called for the QPQ cause he was using all possible leverage to protect America from evil Biden!!!”
Even if DJT switches, I hope you stand yur ground.
That’s what the cool people do. Yur really cool.
Again, what typo did I make? I took down the comment because I wrote "your" when I meant to write "you're", but that doesn't really change the meaning. You will have to enlighten me.
Cool is as cool does.
So, you just making up shit again, huh?
A day ending in y,
You whooped me again, didn’t ya Yancey?
I am trying to figure out how my typo was some sort of Freudian slip. Perhaps you can explain it to me? Or is it just the case that you misread something because of your own Freudian issues?
I am just pulling your leg, adSs- the chance arose because I deleted and replaced before your comment, and it was hard to resist.
Yes, I wrote the second sentence with a kind of double negative that reversed the meaning (instead of "said" I had written "denied"), but I only caught it because of the "your" right at the front of the comment. I often change the sentence on the fly as I write, and there I had initially written "All the witnesses" instead of "No one who was on the call", but I didn't remove "denied" at the same time. I made the change because few of the witnesses even heard the call- only Vindman, Morrison, and Smith, I think, actually heard the call, though tonight's witnesses may have, too, but I have read the transcripts in full yet.
And, you will notice, I have a habit of leaving off n't (I did it again just above in the last sentence). That is probably my most common typing mistake, though not one I make when writing longhand. Weird.
Yancey,
There was no reason for you to set the record straight. Especially since I was well past the point that I cared to keep going. IOW the last word was yours.
Anywho, presumably there may be an interesting juxtaposition to a lot of of this thread re admitting and denying stuff. Or there isn’t.
I dunno.
I set the record straight because it was the right thing to do after I had had my fun with you.
You are good spirited. But at the surface that’s not always obvious.
A casual reader would not understand that you have a complicated history re political choices.
I think you can “swap” houses like that, John.
For some strange reason I think that’s a s. 1065 swap?
There is now a strong case that Trump essentially decided to squeeze an undisclosed side payment to himself out of the meeting/aid issue.
The side payment was a public announcement by the Ukraine that the Bidens and Crowdstrike were under investigation, in language to be approved by Trumps personal attorney. Not an actual investigation, but a Giuliani vetted smear that would look like it came from an independent source and which would be hard to refute.
The strategy was to delay two things that Ukraine badly needed—a meeting with Trump and the Congressionally approved aid. Those were both public acts, one mandated by Congress and both agreed by all of Trumps advisors to be in the national interest.
Both acts were in fact delayed on Trump’s orders. Ukraine was informed, in multiple ways and by multiple actors, including Trump himself, that there would be no meeting and no aid without the announcement. Sondland told Trump on July 26 that Ukraine was going to give in and an announcement was in the works when the whistleblower blew the whistle.
Had the deal gone down, as Trump and his helpers believed it would, the meeting and the aid would have happened, but Trump would have received his side benefit- a smear of his leading political rival, purportedly from a friendly foreign government, in which his role was concealed.
The narrative that Trump had some broader public interested motivation for his actions is inconsistent with the known facts. Trump was not interested in stopping Ukrainian corruption—he fired the corruption fighting US ambassador, left the issue out in his calls with Zelensky, and never expressed any interest in anyone but the Bidens. Sondland said as much on July 26. Nor was Trump interested in a US investigation of the Bidens. If he was, he would have called Bill Barr, not a Ukrainian government with no jurisdiction, no resources and no access to the relevant evidence concerning Biden’s conduct in office. The Justice Department’s silence on this issue speaks volumes. What he wanted was the announcement, and he wanted it from the Ukraine.
The idea that Trump’s voters elected him so that he could use public resources and the power of his office to squeeze private benefits out of foreign governments or recruit foreign governments to issue fake news bulletins directed at his leading political opponent is ludicrous.
It may be that there is a competing exculpatory account. If there is, it is in the documents and witnesses that the Administration is withholding. The fact that they have refused to produce them suggests that they would confirm, rather than refute, the account above.
anti-de Sitter space said...
”Why should I assume I have anything original to say when I haven't seen prior comments???“
There are only two original things to say in this thread.
1) DJT used pressure to save Ukraine from evil
2) DJT asked for nothing from Ukraine.
They have nothing.
They can only argue against shit they make up.
Completely worthless and amoral.
Imoral.
"he narrative that Trump had some broader public interested motivation for his actions is inconsistent with the known facts.”
Wrong. Ukraine clearly interfered in US elections.
"Trump was not interested in stopping Ukrainian corruption—he fired the corruption fighting US ambassador,”
Wrong, he fired an ambassador who thought that Ukrainian election interference was “unimportant” and who warned Ukrainians that they should not enforce their own laws against interfering in foreign elections against the men who either leaked, or manufactured (it was a hand written ledger) the dirt on Manafort out of Ukrainian intelligence files.
"left the issue out in his calls with Zelensky,”
Wrong. He mentioned election interference out of Ukraine explicitly.
"and never expressed any interest in anyone but the Bidens.”
Zelensky brought up the Bidens first.
The rest of your little screed is based on the four factual errors at a minimum that you made. You can’t expect to convince anybody when you get your facts wrong, and if you get your “facts" from CNN or MSNBC or the Washington Post, you better check the original sources.
I skipped all the comments by people who tend right.
So I read ARM, ADSS, readering, and Chuck.
Yesterday was your best yet, from these ridiculous hearings.
And you have nothing.
Adam Schitt has you well down that primrose path.
I welcome a challenge on any of my points above based on original sources, BTW.
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