"... temporarily shutting down the proceedings. The disruption delayed closed-door testimony from Laura Cooper, the Pentagon official who oversees Ukraine policy, whom lawmakers planned to ask about the White House’s decision to withhold military aid for several months over the summer.... Republicans involved in storming the secure room have begun tweeting updates about their activities and about how Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.) has responded. 'BREAKING: I led over 30 of my colleagues into the SCIF where Adam Schiff is holding secret impeachment depositions. Still inside - more details to come,' tweeted Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.). Reporting from Adam Schiff’s secret chamber....' Republican lawmakers on the three committees involved in the inquiry have been permitted to attend and ask questions during depositions of witnesses. The lawmakers who have been asked to leave are not members of those committees...."
From "Live updates: House Republicans barge into secure room, disrupt planned testimony in Trump impeachment inquiry" (WaPo).
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149 comments:
I looked up SCIF, which isn't explained in the article. I think it's Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility.
This is becoming very entertaining.
A STAR chamber.
Literally.
These people are committing the definition of sedition. Jail is too good for them
Well, I hope they said, "exxcccuuuussssseeeeee me, please."
The fact that any of these democrats has a security clearance at this point is condemnation enough of Washington DC.
This has to end.
I.e. place where you can't bring cell phone for tweeting.
The Republicans need to do a sit-in.
Hey hey hoo hoo secrecy has got to go!
Hey Schitt, how many leaks did you leak today!
Oh and many paper+mache puppets.
yet they complained sondland, didn't communicate confidential info in the clear, of course there is also the problem it's all second hand info,
SCIF is Secure, not Sensitive. And if I remember correctly (it's been 25 years since I've been in one), Compartmentalized.
And nobody better damn well be tweeting while literally still inside.
Hey, the House GOP is showing some initiative!
It's always fun to barge into stuff.
Was Pierre Delecto in there?
Do these people think impeaching Trump at this point would work?
A dark part of me hopes they pull it off and enough republican senators actually vote to convict. Please...
These people are very scared of something.
Durham is closing in.
Good theater; presumably trying to get through to normal human beings (i.e. not news junkies) just how Stalinist the Dems are being. They're holding hearings in top secret facilities. I mean, good Lord, that's appalling.
Not following this story. If other Republican committee members are present, what is the need for these folks to push their way in? Are all Congressmen allowed into every committee meeting?
Were Republican members of the committee present? Of course it's outrageous that these hearings are closed-door, but if they are Democrat-only, then this action disruption is completely justified.
readering argues for "Democracy" To Continue In Darkness"
Who could have guessed a leftist would go that route?
narciso: "yet they complained sondland, didn't communicate confidential info in the clear, of course there is also the problem it's all second hand info,"
In Taylors case it is literally hearsay and conjecture that itself was based on hearsay!!
LOLOLOL
Triple Hearsay!!
Huzzah!
Secret trials, with leaks coming out that no Republicans can attest to, because the Democrats are keeping everything secret. WE DON"T TRUST THEM....how is this supposed to make them anymore trustworthy??? I wonder how they are going to like it when the shoe is on the other foot someday???
Ignorance is Bliss said...
SCIF is Secure, not Sensitive. And if I remember correctly (it's been 25 years since I've been in one), Compartmentalized.
And nobody better damn well be tweeting while literally still inside.
It is not being used for it's intended purpose.
It's purpose is to hold information in a Secure Compartmentalized fashion to support and protect our national security.
It is being used to commit sedition.
The people interrupting this farce and shedding light on the traitors are doing the right thing.
This impeachment process is unlawful and a threat to the foundations of the Republic.
Anyone who supports this "impeachment" is an enemy of freedom.
Brooks Brothers Riot!
Do they sell a Durham Halloween costume?
Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn., tweeted: "This is what happens when people elect members more interested in media hits than the protection of our national security."
I wonder if she realizes that what she is saying, is True
That’s the correct name, professor. No idea why it’s being done in a SCIF - everyone involved would have to have a Top Secret clearance, and I doubt there’s anything at that level being discussed.
So glad the Democrats have been pitching this massive fit for three years. It's really been good and healthy for the country to have a presidential election and for the losing party to use every trick in the book to undermine the result until the next election. You'd think after years of deranged, evidence-free Russiagate theorizing the Democrats would take their foot off the gas.
Nope. When Trump wasn't a Russian secret agent, he was a Nazi. When he wasn't a Nazi, he was cognitively impaired, losing his marbles. When Democrats were upset that he won, they pressured electors to turn against him and vote their consciences. And so on. It never ends.
They simply can't permit the voters to have the president they elected. And the media cheers them on.
One of the more curious things about the anti-Trumpers is their complete and utter obliviousness to how they are making Trump supporters feel. I don't mean in some touchy-feely "can't we all just get along" way. I mean in the "waving a red flag in front of a bull" way. They're so interested in emoting to make themselves feel better that they can't even consider for one second the response they're summoning up.
Mike
Ann Althouse said...
I looked up SCIF, which isn't explained in the article. I think it's Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility.
Ignorance is Bliss said...
SCIF is Secure, not Sensitive. And if I remember correctly (it's been 25 years since I've been in one), Compartmentalized.
And nobody better damn well be tweeting while literally still inside.
Let me decode some of this
1. The S in SCIF has meant both Secure or Sensitive. Today the answer is Sensitive. The proof is that the defining reg calls it that.
Intelligence Community Directive 705, “Sensitive Compartmented Information Facilities(SCIFs),” May 26, 2010.
I regularly go in the SCIF my firm owns.
2. SCIFS are often rooms within a room or a section of a building. Built to rigid security standards and shielded from electronic emissions, going or coming. SCIFs are the only place SCI can be discussed (Sensitive Compartmented Information).
3. Phones and electronic devices are forbidden in SCIFs exempt those approved ones that stay there. Most SCIFs have some sort of anti-room with a phone and lockers for these devices. I suspect the tweets were from there. No FSO (Facility Security Officer) would allow anyone to pull out a cell phone in a SCIF. They'd be tossed out, the phone held, and badges pulled. Secure communications are encrypted (voice, internet, fax, video) before leaving. It is possible to have both secure phones/computers and unsecure ones, but they must be shielded and separate.
'there's no fighting in the scif room,'
4. DCIA (Director, CIA) used to be the rule setter for SCIFs, now it is the Director of National Intelligence, DNI
"Secure" A word that has no meaning in Washington DC.
Next can they storm DOJ and get the fully unrelated Mueller Report?
Perhaps it's the Office of the Architect of the Capitol, or the rules adopted by the House and by the Senate, but it seems to me that every Member of Congress has inherent authority to access all parts of the building unless denied for obvious or practical reasons (e.g., the heating plant, Groundskeeper Willie's janitor closet).
I did not think Republicans did this...
>This is becoming very entertaining.
@Althouse, correct on the definition of SCIF. But my understanding is that the Republicans who “barged in” were cleared, and if they were on the Intelligence Committee then they certainly did have a need to know.
As with most things, the Dems have confidentiality backwards. They hide what should be public, and leak what should be secret.
They also like to reward failure and illegality, and punish the successful and law-abiding.
How do you vote for that shit? I mean I understand if you are prone to failure and law-breaking, but what about the rest of you?
Time to expose the Democrats kangaroo court and sham trial.
Achilles: "Do these people think impeaching Trump at this point would work?"
The dems have no other choice. They know their candidates are losers.
STAR chamber = Selective Testimony Alteration Room
They have to keep it up- that is the key here. If this was just a one time stunt, it won't effective. Wherever Schiff takes the hearing, the Republican Congressmen need to keep showing up. At some point, Schiff either has to relent and open up the hearing to the public, or he will have to kick all the Republicans out of the depositions so that they don't know where they are being held.
Being Republican congresscritters, I suspect this was a one time stunt. They have been getting a lot of push back by their constituents for their spineless bending over to the Democrats on this, so probably felt they needed to something minimal to look like they are fighting this.
I really don't understand the Democrats' strategy here- Star Chambers are anathema to a broad majority of the the public, and the impeaching of a president absolutely should be an open public thing, not done behind closed doors.
@Ignorance is Bliss, I recall the same thing but Wiki says Althouse is correct.
Apparently the Cowardly Schiff-ty went Full Brave Sir Robin and fled the room when confronted by the republicans.
Brave Sir Schiff-ty ran away.
Bravely ran away away.
When sunlight and transparency and accountability reared their ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
Yes, brave Sir Schiff-ty turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.
Swiftly taking to his feet,
He beat a very brave retreat.
Bravest of the brave, Sir Schiff-ty!
Nice. A little argy-bargy as civil disobedience? Argy-bargy (n) chiefly British: a lively discussion : ARGUMENT, DISPUTE.
But what does WaPo mean by "barge", "storm", "disrupt" and "shut-down"? Enter and watch the Democrats call it off?
Perhaps similar to their flexible, biased definition as "testified".
William B. Taylor Jr., the acting U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, testified Tuesday that Trump wanted military aid to Ukraine linked to the country’s willingness to investigate the 2016 election and former vice president Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden...
Trump made Ukraine aid contingent on a public pledge to investigate the Bidens and the 2016 election, U.S. envoy says he was told.
The SCIF is where KKK/DEms plan their next lynching. It is a bigger version of their wearing their portable SCIF's, which are the Hoods a lynch mob wears.
And pretending the 1880s thru 1960s lynchings were all of blacks is wrong. That terror weapon was also directed at southern GOP and other white N----- Lovers. As late as 1948 the Dems split and ran their own candidate against the white N..... Lover President who had integrated the Military and then had initiated the State of Israel in the UN by tricking the Dem State Department. That was the Scots Irish Missourian who was smart enough to whip them all.
This pic from the Daily Caller, seems to support my guess. That the tweets were from outside the SCIF, after having a shown-down with an FSO who would not let them pass.
SCIF Foto op
I'll repeat a comment I made with respect to the leaked testimony yesterday.
In public, on the record, where I can see and hear it in context, or it didn't happen.
The natives are restless.
Has anyone seen Jerry Nadler lately? He went out for a soy latte and an impeachment tip and hasn't come back. Commander Pelosi said "Keep calm and carry on" right before communications were lost. Those fellows from the Washington Post say everything is fine.
It's probably nothing.
The group also entered the room with their electronics, which is prohibited, Connolly added. Republican Texas Rep. Mike Conaway reportedly collected the electronics.
whoops!!
Awesome. I'm very encouraged by this.
Picked up from ACE:
Rep. Roger Marshall (R-Kan.) said Schiff said "nothing" when the members sat down before he left with Cooper.
"He doesn't have the guts to come talk to us," Marshall said. "He left, he just got up and left. He doesn't have the guts to tell us why we can’t come in the room, why he doesn't want this to be transparent. It's the biggest facade, biggest farce of my life."
Regardless of where all this ends up it is good to demand due process and to insist upon transparency. Schiff, and Pelosi, have never even attempted to explain why secrecy is justified.
Good for the Republicans to take a stand - really didn't see that coming. Any word from Pierre or Mitt (he asked snarkily)?
And nobody better damn well be tweeting while literally still inside.
You're not allowed to bring in personal cell phones - they're all supposed to be put in a lock box before you enter. I believe this is one of the rules that Hillary violated frequently. She insisted on using her Blackberry to send emails instead of using the secure personal computer. (Her office was a SCIF.)
It is all theater. Pelossi is the Producer and Schifty is the stage manager. Finally a real America First Congress person stood up and fought with a staged production of their own. The Play's the thing.
And Romney plays the crazy Hamlet part in the play wondering whether or not To help lynch the President or not, that is the question. Meanwhile Trump daily endures the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune taking twitter weapons up against a sea of them.
I'm glad that the GOP seems to be countering the Dem's silly theater with a bit of their own theater. But on some level it really does feel like a tiff between two factions in a high school drama club.
I had an SCI clearance in the military. That was Special Compartmented Information, IIRC.
Nobody can tweet from inside a SCIF--or so it's said. OTOH when Adam Schiff steps outside the "hearing room" to take a "leak" he does it in more ways than one.
Generally, a SCIF will be shielded electronically and any computers inside connect to nothing. You are not allowed to bring in any electronic device, and you cannot remove from the SCIF any material, even notes you take. Also, you will have to sign in and out.
So yes, one makes an ideal Star Chamber.
There should not be another Democrat elected for 2 generations.
Can you imagine if Hillary had gotten elected and the Repubs spent 3 years on Russia! Russia! Russia!, with the press paving the way for them, night after night, headline after breathless headline. While doing that, the Repubs attack a Supreme Court nominee by floating a half-witted, neurotic accusing the nominee of sexual misdoings from 40 years ago, all the while having the media carry their water? Then follow that up by saying, fuck it- we're just going to impeach her ass, one way or another. We know the press will carry our water. Let's leak that we have all kinds of stuff. Line up a bunch of faux whistleblowers, and hold double secret meetings in a secure location, but DO NOT ALLOW ANY DEMOCRATS OR THE PRESS into our interviews, nor allow them access to our investigation. We can leak to the press what we want covered and they'll eat it up.
Can you imagine how this would go down? First of all, we all know the press would not be carrying the water for the Repubs. They would instead be screaming....SCREAMING about the entire thing and Repubs would be racist/sexist/transist/whateverist. Where is the press on this now? Carrying Adam Schiff's water.
I agree it being good theater. It is doing what must be done here, which is to highlight the execrable behavior by Shifty Schiff in his Star Chamber. You expect this sort of stunt from young Democrat House members like the Squad. But not nearly as much from Republicans, and even some of the more sober, older, more senior ones. It will make the news today on at least Fox News. Do the Dems have enough power to keep this show off the rest of the nightly news? Should be interesting. Because to put it on the news asks the question of why the normally very sober Republicans were driven to participate in this stunt. Which naturally brings up the question of why Shifty Schiff and Nancy Palsi has them relegated outside, while they are interviewing witnesses inside.
Ann, are you ever actually concerned about any of this? You make these blog posts day after day without ever really weighing in... I know you try to stay "impartial" so as not to warp the discourse, but are you not at least a little worried about the trajectory this is taking and how far the Dem's are willing to go? Or is all of this simply academic to you? Do you ever get at least a little twinge of fear at where things are heading?
IMO, we are in very dangerous waters here and if the Dem's lawlessness isn't stopped, you can kiss our democratic republic goodbye... What are your thoughts on that?
Beasts of England said...
That’s the correct name, professor. No idea why it’s being done in a SCIF - everyone involved would have to have a Top Secret clearance, and I doubt there’s anything at that level being discussed.
10/23/19, 12:15 PM
--------------------
It's part of the theater... by holding these meetings in the SCIF, they can claim justification for making them "closed door" and kicking out anyone they don't want to know what they're doing... which is exactly what they've done... like others have said, its a Star Chamber proceeding and illegal / unconstitutional...
Bring baseball bats next time.
This is not a grand jury - nor is it classified. And without the house vote - it's not even a real inquiry.
It's all meant to manufacture leaks for the D-hack press.
readering: "Do they sell a Durham Halloween costume?"
Wow. The lefties/dems really really DON'T want to find out what happened in 2015/2016/2017, do they?
LOL
"Next can they storm DOJ and get the fully unrelated Mueller Report?"
Heh -- you still flogging that dead horse, Readering?
Schiff is such a little bitch. Darn, I hope the Mass Commonwealth is not reading this.
Memo to Democrats:
The country isn't divided 50-50, Democrat to Republican.
There are many independents and non-party affiliates. It's closer to 33-33-33, Dem/Rep/Indy
The middle of the road Independents think the economy is good, think impeachment is a bogus, partisan idea, and that y'all are batshit crazy.
Hold on here! Secret meetings, secret testimony, secret transcripts... are these democrats wearing their white sheets and hoods?
I Worked in a SCIF for many years. It's where they keep some of the really secret stuff and some not secret stuff. It's also a place for super secret work. The classification system irritated me to no end. I would ask why is this document classified at such a high level? It's in the newspapers, on TV, the radio, everyone knows it! The answer I always got was it's classified at that level because the regs say it should be at that level. Now, don't talk about it or you'll go to jail. Hillary.
No justice, no peace.
"Barged"
lol
Big Mike said...
@Althouse, correct on the definition of SCIF. But my understanding is that the Republicans who “barged in” were cleared, and if they were on the Intelligence Committee then they certainly did have a need to know.
I suspect but don't know that all Congresspersons are processed for clearances. It may be that they all get one, though I have my doubts about the loyalty of a few.
I also suspect that those are at the TS level, but that only selected committees are cleared for SCI.
I further question whether all SCI cleared members have the need to know at the committee level.
I think the issue is that Schiff is trying to exclude the GOP members with SCI who sit on the other relevant committees, not Intell.
Very impressive.
Meanwhile, ya got a bunch of young people (discounting the usual violent assholes) in Hong Kong protesting for months and actually risking something while us 63 million Americans who voted for Trump peck away at our keyboards. Whether voting pro Trump or anti Hillary we are getting fucked.
Know what is lacking? Organization. There should be tens of thousands through out the country protesting this lynching of the United States.
Abortion people can raise a hundred thousand in a week. Anti Trumpers can raise a hundred to assault rally goers.
Meanwhile 63 million sit around tsk tsking and "stocking up on ammo".
Keeping hope alive that Barr et al is really gonna show who is who and what is what.
Maybe The people who are always eager to say "If I was there, I would" and if it was me, I would have" should get off their asses and organize some real world pushback..
15-20,000 at a Trump rally allow a handful of punks to attack rally goers as they are leaving? Pathetic.
Unknown said...
Generally, a SCIF will be shielded electronically and any computers inside connect to nothing. You are not allowed to bring in any electronic device, and you cannot remove from the SCIF any material, even notes you take. Also, you will have to sign in and out.
NO.
many SCIFs have encrypted access to the SIPRNET or the JWICS. Some SCIFs also have access to the NIPRNET, and by extension, the INTERNET. Different machines, routers and lines are used and the terminals are Tempest shielded.
Where is fat Jerry Nadler these days? He's been kinda quiet lately.
Maybe, he is stashed away in a Sensitive Compartmentalized All-You-Can-Eat-Taco Bar Facility.
Bruce Hayden said...
I agree it being good theater. It is doing what must be done here, which is to highlight the execrable behavior by Shifty Schiff in his Star Chamber. You expect this sort of stunt from young Democrat House members like the Squad. But not nearly as much from Republicans, and even some of the more sober, older, more senior ones. It will make the news today on at least Fox News. Do the Dems have enough power to keep this show off the rest of the nightly news?
I don't think that matters.
All that matters is if GOP Reps are willing to keep it up.
Because if they crash every "hearing", with recording equipment, and publicly state they will keep on doing so until the Dems release all the transcripts of all them hearings, the Dems are rather screwed.
No?
The system relies on the GOP just giving in, and follow the Democrats rules. If they don't, then short of shooting GOP Reps who try to get in, the Dems are stuck
If I recall correctly, the head of the EPA installed or attempted to install a SCIF in his office, but our unbiased press preferred to call it a million dollar phone booth.
MikeR said...
Not following this story. If other Republican committee members are present, what is the need for these folks to push their way in? Are all Congressmen allowed into every committee meeting?
The Democrats are holding "secret" "hearings" from which the Democrats then officially leak whatever bits are best for them, while keeping the rest hidden under rules of secrecy.
By breaking in, and bringing recording devices with them, the GOP gets the ability to release all the parts taht make the Dems look bad.
And the Dems look so bad that the mere threat of recordings they couldn't control caused them to cancel the "deposition".
Jack Kennedy would have approved of the Republicans action. Why are Dems such criminals and haters of the Constitution?
If you don’t have the facts or the law on your side, you pound the table. With both Nixon and Clinton there was a secret investigation, by Cox and Starr respectively. Here that investigation is being conducted by the House. Secret investigations for obvious reasons are more likely to get to the truth. Witnesses have less opportunity to work together to get their stories straight. Why were the Benghazi hearings secret?
And of course the republican members of the three committees are present and ask questions. The tears about due process are as phony as their claim there was no quid pro quo.
Did Mittens Romney and Ms. Lindsey faint upon hearing the news?
Ann you should be appalled by this and it should keep you from voting Dem in the future. If not, you are part of the problem and not the solution
Blogger Yancey Ward said...
They have to keep it up- that is the key here. If this was just a one time stunt, it won't effective. Wherever Schiff takes the hearing, the Republican Congressmen need to keep showing up. At some point, Schiff either has to relent and open up the hearing to the public, or he will have to kick all the Republicans out of the depositions so that they don't know where they are being held.
They're taking depositions of people who work for the Executive Branch.
Which means most of them will tell their boss where they're going.
I don't think that kicking out all the GOP Committee members would work
Next time the Republicans should bring tinfoil hats for the Democrats on the Committee.
It will help them better translate the testimony from the witness into what Trump was thinking at the time.
steve uhr: "If you don’t have the facts or the law on your side, you pound the table. With both Nixon and Clinton there was a secret investigation, by Cox and Starr respectively. Here that investigation is being conducted by the House."
LOLOLOLOLOL
Hey jerkoff, you already had your special counsel investigation. Remember that doddering old fool named Mueller heading up a team of your favorite lefty jackals?
They issued a report and everything.
Next time you decide you want to go Full Freder Mode and just lie out of your rear two hind quarters, you might make sure to do it in front of a democrat dummy only crew.
It's not a SCIF.
It's a SChIfF.
Steve Uhr,
Please comment on the following:
The Clinton Crime Foundation receiving $140 million for the Uranium Deal
Horndog Clintoon getting $500,000 for a 30 minute speech in Russia
Obama the Magnificent getting caught on a hot mic telling the Russians he could be more flexible with them after the election.
Biden's drug addict son receiving $50,000 a month from a Ukranian Company when he had no expertise in the field?
Joe "Hair Plugs" Biden bragging he got a Ukranian prosecutor fired
Any qui pro quos, or do they only apply to a Republican?
Bay Area Guy: "Where is fat Jerry Nadler these days? He's been kinda quiet lately."
Recovering from viewing himself in 1998 calling the Clinton impeachment a lynching........and consuming whole 2 committee staffers.
BUMBLE BEE: "Hold on here! Secret meetings, secret testimony, secret transcripts... are these democrats wearing their white sheets and hoods?"
Shhhhh.
Li'l Stevie Uhr is explaining why all this is totes kosher.
Let’s have a rule that grand juries cannot hear hearsay evidence. Half of the AUSA’s would be out of work. An investigation is not a trial, but you guys all know that.
A couple of people have called this "sedition" but I'm not sure it meets the legal definition. Searching the USC turns up nothing about "sedition" (on my phone so don't trust this result) I do find the definition of "seditious Conspiracy" though. It seems like sedition requires force or violence. So horrible as this impeachment charade is, I don't see how it can be "sedition"
USC 18 ch 115
§2384. Seditious conspiracy
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
John Henry
If you don’t have the facts or the law on your side, you pound the table.<
What do you think Schiff is doing, dickweed ?
So the Republicans left at 2:00 to go vote. Now the deposition is underway.
Nice try Repubs but that will change nothing.
You think the lefties are responding poorly now.
Just wait till they hear the republicans ordered in Chik-fil-A!!
Lefty "splodey" heads everywhere!!
Good. The whole farce has gone on long enough. There is no reason for the republicans to go along with this lunacy. If the lickspittle press wasn't so subservient to the democrats they could at least ask how legitimate an impeachment proceeding this will be when the democrats are too afraid to open the proceedings to the american people.
"With both Nixon and Clinton there was a secret investigation, by Cox and Starr respectively. Here that investigation is being conducted by the House. “
Yes, it would be a big problem for the Democrats to suffer the appointment of a special counsel agreed to by both sides to lead this.
“In the past we allowed criminals a fair trial. It turned out to be inconvenient to allow the accused actual rights, so this time it’s going to be different!"
Re: Lynching. [and not going to Wikipedia.]
The Tuskegee Institute did a study of lynchings in the South from the end of the Civil War until, I think, the Civil Rights Act, 100 years. They counted 4,000-some. Blacks were 2000-some and whites were 1,000-some. The whites were Republicans and Jews, the most famous of the latter being Leo Frank, lynched during what I will call the Wilson-era KKK revival.
There were not many Papists in the South so the anti-Catholicism only became pronounced in the Wilson-era KKK.
SCIF >>>> change to SCIFI >>>> we would be in fantasy land
Does 'planned testimony' in WaPo text mean 'scheduled' or 'rehearsed'? I suspect both.
Blogger steve uhr said...
If you don’t have the facts or the law on your side, you pound the table. With both Nixon and Clinton there was a secret investigation, by Cox and Starr respectively. Here that investigation is being conducted by the House. Secret investigations for obvious reasons are more likely to get to the truth. Witnesses have less opportunity to work together to get their stories straight. Why were the Benghazi hearings secret?
What's it like having such a crap position that you have to say brain-dead stupid things in order to "defend" it?
1: With both Nixon and Clinton, there was an investigation by a group of people actually capable of carrying out an investigation. An investigation that was authorized by a vote of the House
So you're 0 for 2 here
2: Schiff is using the "secrecy" so he can bury the parts that hurt the Dems, while publicly releasing the parts they can spin in their favor. Which makes the whole "secrecy" game an obvious fraud
3: Any "conspirators" ho want to "get their stories straight, together", can do so at any time they want. They work together. If they're willing to lie, then they can meet, conspire, and lie about it later
This isn't an episode of Colombo
I can’t wait for Steve Uhr’s magnum opus: "The Magna Carta, an Eight Hundred Year Mistake”
Since they are still feeling about for a crime, I am thinking that a special counsel is sort of out of the question. If they went that route, they would have to at least pretend they had something illegal on Trump.
"Any qui pro quos, or do they only apply to a Republican?”
To ask it is to answer it.
Good for them. If they are expected to vote on impeachment, it ought not to be based on the testimony of witnesses they have not observed.
What a disappointment that there are no decent people in the Democrat Party or the leftmedia calling for an end to this despicable Star Chamber that is so antithetical to traditional notions of due process and integrity in this country.
Of course, there will always be lemmings like SteveUhr (2:23), who can’t or won’t understand that his analogies are not analogous for so many reasons. E.g., the Nixon and Clinton impeachment investigations by the House of Representatives we’re not conducted in secret.
Ultimately, it doesn’t matter to the “impeachment.” There will be no vote. Democrats prefer to have voters infected with calumny fed to them selectively by the leftmediaswine in hopes of affecting the 2020 election, since they have no other platform. A Senate trial would screw that up.
It would be nice if Republican squishes like Thune and Romney would STFU. They don’t know squat because the “hearings” are secret. That, not Trump, should be their target. Someone should tell them that if Trump were to be impeached for doing what Democrats have done and convicted by a Republican Senate, it would be the end of the Republicans. I and others like me do not vote for Democrats because we know their party is corrupt. We merely suspect Republicans. Conviction would confirm our suspicions. If Republicans vote to disenfranchise us, Republicans will not get our votes.
Blogger readering said...
“Next can they storm DOJ and get the fully unrelated [sic] Mueller Report?”
It’s hard to believe anyone is still beating that dead horse. Is there any way Althouse could get a smarter, classier type of lefty. I used to think Cook fell into that category, but he’s gone off the rails recently. Maybe there are no smart, classy lefties. Seems likely.
Steve Uhr,
I see you are running away from answering my 2:49 pm post. I really need your "honest" answers
It's all fun and games until the ghost of Preston Brooks decides to take possession of one of today's Democrats.
steve uhr,
"Let’s have a rule that grand juries cannot hear hearsay evidence."
Let's do! Sounds good to me.
"Half of the AUSA’s would be out of work."
OK with me; are there any downsides?
steve uhr: "Let’s have a rule that grand juries cannot hear hearsay evidence. Half of the AUSA’s would be out of work. An investigation is not a trial, but you guys all know that."
We already had a Special Counsel investigation over all of your earlier lies and frame up tactics.
Now we are talking about your dem hero's colluding with deep staters to fabricate new fake charges.
I'm sorry that people pushing back on your nonsense upsets you so.
Nice to see GOP not being sedate and accommodating. Let's bring back the spirit of the American Revolution and drain the swamp!
There appears to be many many many many dems/lefties/media types who are suddenly very very very concerned about a certain Joseph Mifsud and his recent "conversations" with Barr and Durham in Italy.
Why, there is even talk of an earlier Mifsud-prepared deposition that was put on tape because at the time Mr Mifsud believed his life might be in danger and he wanted the taped deposition in place.
I wonder why?
Further, this now known to be western asset and long time associate of Stephan Halper and John Brennan also handed over 2 blackberries that reportedly were used in the 2015/2016 time frames.
My my. Now that is an interesting story.
And right after that, Mssr's Barr and Durham "requested" the company of Mssr's Brennan and Clapper for some "discussions" that might bear witness to events of those heady "Hillary is going to win!!" times.
conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States
Does the Power of the United States Department of Justice (and that of the CIA) constitute force
The CIA has (frequently) used force to overthrow foreign governments
Republic of South Vietnam
Kingdom of Iran
etc
If you included using force to ATTEMPT to overthrow governments; you'd add a lot more
hombre: "It’s hard to believe anyone is still beating that dead horse."
Just Hillary and readering.
But then again, that's because they are russian agents.
Greg: "3: Any "conspirators" ho want to "get their stories straight, together", can do so at any time they want. They work together. If they're willing to lie, then they can meet, conspire, and lie about it later"
Hey, remember when Diane Feinstein "accidently" releasing the testimony of Glenn Simpson, just in time for the other Russia collusion hoaxers who were scheduled to testify to review it prior to their "testimony"?
LOL
Good times, good times.....
# of Steve Uhr posts expressing concerns about that incident remain at an even ZERO.
Yesterday the media, liberal and conservative, said Pelosi was slowing things down, and may not get to the Senate until after the New Year, maybe, according to a DNC PR person, after the Dems have picked a candidate!
This is all narrative setting to drive poll numbers. I am 70/30 betting against the House ever writing articles of impeachment and holding a vote.
Everyone is putting their fingers in both ears and humming, trying to ignore the Barr investigation that spent a lot of time in Italy.(Their Intelligence leadership all resigned a couple of months ago) and got a couple of cell phones from the spy hiding in plain sight, Joseph Mifsud, a fact witness Mueller wanted no part of.
This is fun! It’s like the House is back in the 1800s.
Remember WaPo Democracy dies in secret hearings.
TJM. I’m not defending Clinton or the Biden’s. What does any of that have to do with whether Trump abused his power. I don’t think the “they did it too” defense will fly but who knows. It certainly would be irrelevant in a real trial.
Let’s not forget that trump has on his hands the blood of Ukrainian soldiers. And not metaphorically.
Mifsud is an anagram of Fudism...a devotee of the political philosophy of Elmer Fudd.
"Fudd" is very similar in construction to "Barr."
Hmmm...very interesting to see what sort of drug deal Elmer and Durham cooked up whilst in Rome. We shall, no doubt, soon see.
Drago. I’m not upset at all. Why would I be upset? Also you accused me of lying. Would you be kind enough to point out my lie?
Kirk — the downside would be a lot more criminals walking the street. But I guess that’s okay with you.
"the downside would be a lot more criminals walking the street. But I guess that’s okay with you.”
steve uhr is right. The cost of granting the accused ‘rights’ is far too high. If Congress allowed Trump rights, it would make justice harder, since it has already been decided that the only just outcome is impeachment and removal.
If they don’t remove him, he is just going to win re-election, and we can’t have that!
"Mifsud is an anagram of Fudism...a devotee of the political philosophy of Elmer Fudd. “
He sure loomed large in the Mueller Report, but that was then, right?
They dragged out the Mueller Report until after the election, and got control of the House that way, even though collusion was complete bullshit, so why shouldn’t they drag this out? It pays.
Nancy can’t have anybody judging her kid’s graft collection in the Ukraine.
As Kimberly Strassel points out, the democrats are destroying the very foundation of government. From private conversations between the President and foreign leaders to impeachment of any President not of the same party as the House.
Generational, if not permanent damage.
readering is still beating that Mueller Report dead horse.
LOL. Try to keep up.
Blogger steve uhr said...
Kirk — the downside would be a lot more criminals walking the street. But I guess that’s okay with you.
Better a guilty man go free than an innocent man found guilty-The basis of our criminal justice system.
I guess you're alright with that?
Another Iowan said...
. I am 70/30 betting against the House ever writing articles of impeachment and holding a vote
WHY Would they Ever have a vote (unless things change enough in the Senate for Removal)?
What would be the point of Impeachment, and Acquittal?
They'll drag this out, as long as their polls show it helping them/hurting Trump
If/When the polls show people being sick of it; they'll memoryhole the whole thing.
Impeachment? What Impeachment? We never voted to start an inquiry!!
steve uhr said...
If you don’t have the facts or the law on your side, you pound the table. With both Nixon and Clinton there was a secret investigation, by Cox and Starr respectively. Here that investigation is being conducted by the House. Secret investigations for obvious reasons are more likely to get to the truth. Witnesses have less opportunity to work together to get their stories straight. Why were the Benghazi hearings secret?
And of course the republican members of the three committees are present and ask questions. The tears about due process are as phony as their claim there was no quid pro quo.
There was this little thing called the Mueller investigation. Perhaps you've heard of. Went on for three years based on false information sued to start it. Was conducted in secret. Well, secret except for all the information leaked from Democrat FBI/CIA and whatever agents and Democrat lawyers working for Mueller.
And from what I've read, that part about And of course the republican members of the three committees are present and ask questions is false. Completely and 100% false. That's part of the problem.
I don't get it.
If I were an important member of Congress (I know, I know but stay with me here) and I had witnesses and documents that would prove the base corruption of a sitting president, I would INSIST on having public hearings, televised from gavel to gavel. Every day after testimony I would hold a press conference and repeat the awful facts uncovered, several times each.
Then, when my mortified colleagues from both parties voted to impeach and the Senate voted to convict the evil president, I would climb on my soapbox, wipe a tear from my eye, and say what a very sad day it was for the republic. In sorrow more than anger, I would humbly throw my name into contention for the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination and ride that sucker to the Oval Office.
Why isn't this happening? Why won't the Democrats even let the Republican committee members into the hearings?
Is the committee leader playing 3-D chess, or is it more likely that that there's no there there and he's waiting -- hoping, actually -- that another shy whistleblower will show up with a smoking gun?
Mifsud is an anagram of Fudism...a devotee of the political philosophy of Elmer Fudd.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.
he was a maltese official who worked for a company/bureau/firm training center, but we're supposed to believe he's a Russian spy,
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/10/23/who-william-taylor-impeachment-star-witness-longtime-relationship-burisma-backed-think-tank/
> -- hoping, actually -- that another shy whistleblower will show up with a smoking gun?
They are actively organizing the protected hearsay witnesses.
Good for them. Occupy Congress.
quinn hilyer and Lindsay graham, are not amused by the antics of sit in folk,
Let’s not forget that trump has on his hands the blood of Ukrainian soldiers. And not metaphorically.
Are you fucking nuts ? What is that about? Trump shot down the airliner ? Have you lost what little mind you had ?
more of this travismockasham,
https://johnsolomonreports.com/steele-state-and-the-alfa-bank-conspiracy-theory-exposed/
It was a Panty Raid
4th hand hearsay from a guy linked to Burisma and who has been coordinating with Schiff-ty's staffers long before filing any 4th hand complaint.
Sounds legit.
LOL
...Secret chamber...witnesses...sounds like a Nazi/Soviet/Socialist/kangaroo proceeding...not something that is supposed to be going on in a constitutional republic.
I'm not even going to say "shame on the Democrats"...I'm going to say they have gone full blown radical rebels, ignoring the Constitution and undermining our judicial system, revolting against and disregarding a citizen's protection under the law that is supposed to protect us all.
If the Democrats get away with this, who and what is next?
It'd make more sense if the R's blocked the House business and the Minority leader wrote a letter to the Speaker, with copies to everyone. This should be a unified R effort, with McCarthy at the head, because what Adams shits is doing is completely against the rules and ethics of how to run a committee.
Get mad you son-of-bitches! It takes brass balls to deal with Nancy Pelolsi.
Meanwhile Turkey Mitch and his band of bland mummies and goofs does NOTHING. They've been completely useless for almost 3 years, there only accomplishment was please the Big Donors with a tax break.
You can just imagine Mitch, Cornyn and Susan Collins all yean for the days of Obama, when they could talk big and do nothing - except spread the graft around.
“Why won't the Democrats even let the Republican committee members into the hearings?”
“13 Republicans involved in impeachment protest already have access to hearings
13 of the 41 Republican lawmakers who stormed a closed-door hearing Wednesday to protest an alleged lack of transparency in the impeachment inquiry sit on committees with the power to question witnesses and review documents.”
I hope the Dems are video recording these secret tribunals. Even Hitler had his show trials filmed for his enjoyment. I can easily imagine Biden and Hillary enjoying watching all this in secret.
quinn hilyer and Lindsay graham, are not amused by the antics of sit in folk,
Maybe Graham has has too many friends in the Deep State.
Mark Thomas thinks impeachment done without oversight from the American people is a capital idea.
I do too.
And I think the participants should have a choice between hanging and firing squad.
Narciso explains: he was a maltese official who worked for a company/bureau/firm training center, but we're supposed to believe he's a Russian spy
And was there a falcon involved?
narciso said...
he was a maltese official who worked for a company/bureau/firm training center, but we're supposed to believe he's a Russian spy,
********
Yeah, even thought the Italians have revealed that he taught at a CIA training center in Rome.
snort
Good for the Republicans, but it's too little too late. I want to see a caning.
Oh FFS, steve! I read the part where you said "AUSA", did you think I was illiterate? The vast majority of folks who would be a danger "walking the street" (as opposed to sitting in their offices hatching another Enron) are being charged under ordinary criminal law... i.e. state law.
Surely you know this...
@Mark Thomas: your comment was lifted from Reddit/Axios.
Now tell us: are ALL those committees actually meeting now on impeachment, since Pelosi declared an informal inquiry??
Have GOP members refused to attend any/all those committees?
Have they been allowed to issue subpoenas and interview witnesses in all three committees??
>>>>put some citations here, please:
Also: isn't it a fact that none of those 13 are allowed into the Intelligence committee headed by Schiff, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT MEMBERS OF THOSE COMMITTEES?
Isn't it further a fact that Schiff has *denied* GOP members of HIS committee access to HIS proceedings?
Isn't that the issue here?
>>>>tell us if I'm wrong, then tell us what the facts are.
I don't expect you'll be back....but on thsi blog we keep track of liars and cowardice.
Michael K said...
"Let’s not forget that trump has on his hands the blood of Ukrainian soldiers. And not metaphorically.
Are you fucking nuts ? What is that about? Trump shot down the airliner ? Have you lost what little mind you had ?"
Shhh. I want to see where he goes with this. Should be entertaining. I also want to know where he gets this shit.
Trump does have the blood of Ukrainian soldiers on his hands — negative blood. Unlike wimpish Obama who sent hashtags instead, Trump is now allowing the provision of deadly arms to the Ukrainians, so that now they can better defend themselves as well as their country from being stomped by the Russian boot. Thus Trump's actually saving Ukrainian blood from being helplessly shed by a vicious, ravaging tyrant: Putin.
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