"Since 2011, bicyclists have injured more than 2,250 pedestrians — including at least seven who died.... 'People are mad,' said Adrienne Rivetti Jensen, an Upper West Side resident whose 5-year-old daughter, Mabel, suffered a gash on her forehead when a speeding biker clipped the girl in Riverside Park on April 8.... 'She got hit while we were just walking on the pathway — and a lot of cyclists were speeding past us, yelling at us to get out of the way,' the mother recalled. 'In the Uber to the hospital, I started to feel really angry. He could have killed her. He was going really fast.... Every New Yorker I meet has a story about someone getting hit.... It should be a public conversation. All these bicyclists have lobbying groups and are getting expanded accessibility to the city.'"
From "NYC bicyclists are killing pedestrians and the city won’t stop it" (NY Post).
Bicyclists can be the worst. They think of themselves as vulnerable and virtuous, and they are, but from that starting point you can make a lot of errors.
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They think of themselves as vulnerable and virtuous, and they are, but from that starting point you can make a lot of errors.
Sounds like your average Leftwing activist. Most of them are assholes too.
But of course, you realize that in a Green New Deal world, bicycles are our future. They have to not only be accommodated, but promoted, as carbon-free travel alternatives.
I was taught from childhood that you're supposed to walk facing oncoming traffic, but the narrow walk/bike paths I've been on usually require the pedestrian to walk with bikers coming up behind them. That's very dangerous.
Are E-bikers better or worse than “regular” bikers? Discuss.
Knowing the voting habits of voters in NY, for everyone who dies from these bicyclists, means one less Democrat. So, there's that.
Things you don't see in bike lanes in Houston: bikes. What's more, to put them in the auto lanes are narrowed so that you're nearly banging door panels with the car next to you.
Meanwhile cyclists use the sidewalk.
They think of themselves as vulnerable and virtuous, and they are, but from that starting point you can make a lot of errors.
Portlandia had a good take on this.
bicycles (at least in iowa); have All of the Rights, and None of the responsibilities of other vehicles
bicycles don't have to stop (or even slow down for stop signs or stop lights
bicycles ALWAYS have the right of way (even over pedestrians (even on sidewalks))
bicycles SUCK
Are we Europe Utopia yet?
We have similar problems here in bicycle-friendly Tucson. There are miles and miles of off-street bike and running paths, but the cyclists think it all belongs to them. They ride with the car traffic while runners and walkers ride in the opposite direction. That creates some problems.
A few weeks ago a friend in my wife's running club was hit by a cyclist and fractured her hip.
"Are E-bikers better or worse than “regular” bikers? Discuss."
I don't think so, because on an e-bike you're not as invested in getting the benefit of your momentum, and anyone on an e-bike should be modest and humble about their activity and less pumped up with pride and entitlement.
I say that as someone who uses both types of bikes.
Bikers share the space either with cars or with pedestrians and when they are with cars, they need to be careful that they don't get hurt. Drivers need to be deferential to bikers, because the bikers have the special vulnerability. But when bikers are using a shared path with pedestrians, they have to change their point of view, and they must ALWAY defer to the pedestrians. Slow down when you go around them and alert them to your presence (with a bell or your voice). You are an asshole if you don't. You need to know that!
Where, exactly, does the virtuous bit come from? They are doing what they want to do. That does not equal virtue.
"Bicyclists can be the worst. They think of themselves as vulnerable and virtuous"
Vulnerable to large steel objects, cars and trunks.
But virtuous to no one, despite their fevered imaginations.
And they are dangers to those steel objects and pedestrians.
Announcing your intent as in "on your left" would be nice. I don't understand why this seems to be an imposition for many cyclists.
Insufferable is the more accurate word.
We have had to put up with these bike lobbyists swarming in city hall, demanding bike lanes everywhere and passionately arguing that we are all going to die in car accidents unless we force people on bikes, yet rare is the sight of a bike. They are trophies, nothing more. The local joke is that we have heard they exist but never seen in the wild.
No one particularly cared since it did not affect their daily life, until the bike lobby got greedy and tried to cut off access to the main hospital for trophy bike lanes, and city hall seemed to support that crackpot idea (even lecturing the Fire Department that it did not understand emergency access services like the bike lobby did). City hall quickly learned that about 1% of voters use bikes as transportation.
"You are an asshole if you don't. You need to know that!"
See, here is where your argument goes off. You're assuming that they do not realize their behavior is that of an asshole. They do realize this. They just think they have a special exemption because they are "virtuous."
Numerous studies have shown that people who believe they have the "correct" beliefs will cheat far more often than others. That free pass gives them special priveleges.
You say they are virtuous. That assumes facts not in evidence. Bike lanes cause congestion, which increases smog and CO2. Bikers demand the right to impose those costs on the rest of us. Where is the virtue?
Virtuous asshole. Is that the same as cruel neutrality?
Our local park has a modest 1/2 mile paved trail. There must have been a problem because a few months ago I noticed signage saying walkers should go counter clockwise, and wheeled vehicles should go clockwise. This must not have worked since more recently the signage implies that wheeled vehicles are no longer allowed.
"Bicyclists can be the worst."
Not can be. Are. None follows the rules of the road.
"They think of themselves as vulnerable and virtuous, and they are"
Vulnerable yes -- but why virtuous?
"but from that starting point you can make a lot of errors"
Well, if the "starting point" is arrogance and a false sense of superiority, you are bound to make a lot of errors.
AA said: "They think of themselves as vulnerable and virtuous, and they are..."
OK, sharing a road with motor vehicles, sure they're vulnerable. But virtuous? Utter nonsense. Where is your critical thinking, Professor?
I was a 150-mile a week cycling enthusiast for years, and planned and led rides with one of the local clubs. One headache a ride leader always has is trying to get the other riders to SINGLE UP when there's no shoulder. How hard is that to do? Too hard, for a lot of people.
Even when there was a shoulder, there were always people who had to ride three or four abreast and enter the traffic lane.
Ironically, just about all of those people drove their cars to the starting point of the rides, so they had to be acquainted with being on the receiving end of the oblivious, inconsiderate behavior of many cyclists.
And our club only rode on lightly-used rural roads. I think you have to be literally insane to ride a bicycle in the city. I don't feel safe there even in car--there are unpredictable pedestrians everywhere, the streets are in lousy shape, motorists are distracted and usually annoyed, etc. Walking five blocks to and from the train when I worked in Philly I saw many examples of near-suicidal behavior by cyclists.
Of course, I also saw people traveling to and from work on skateboards, too, which probably also says something about the mindset of people who inhabit places like that.
"Bicyclists can be the worst. They think of themselves as vulnerable and virtuous"
"Entitled" might be a better description.
Ah... bike violence!!! NYC is chock full of bike violence! We need a 5 day cooling off period to buy a bike. Registration! One bike a month! Mandatory safety training! No assault bikes!
I'm spry and usually I'm head on a swivel so I think I'm more fortunate than others but I've still had more than one close call with a biker blowing through the stop light into the active crosswalk. The smug smile a foot from me as it flew by is one I regret not removing...
I've assumed it would only take one collision with the wrong politician's family member to end the whole thing. Still waiting...
It’s hard to alert walkers to your voice if the walkers have earbuds in.
Wait until NYC has bike and poop violence.
Bicyclists can be the worst. They think of themselves as vulnerable and virtuous, and they are ...
@Mease, can’t you do anything about your wife’s gullibility?
On one episode of “Portlandia”, Fred Armisan does a great satire of the angry, self righteous biker
If you don't like my fast riding, stay off the sidewalk.
Here in San Francisco bike lanes are aspirational, not separated nor safe. They can be missing for a few crucial blocks, and are full of Uber pick ups, electric scooters and skateboards, bums with shopping carts, joggers and ticket scalpers.
Rental ebikes are the worst. The rider paid a premium, and he will go too fast because he paid for it.
The 82 year old owner of a men's clothing chain stepped out from between parked cars to jaywalk in the 80s and I hit him squarely and fast on a bike. We both were hurt in minor ways. Everyone assumed it was my fault. He called me that night and asked how he got home. I felt sad over the whole situation.
How does riding a bike make anyone virtuous?
Typical de Blasio, typical leftism.
In a rural, spacious enviro, biking is a good thing.
But integrating bikes to an already crowded urban city of cars, busses, taxis and pedestrians? Fuhgeddaboudit. You're just guaranteeing more stress, more near-misses and more accidents. That's kinda par for the course for leftists - they like to make things worse and don't give a shit.
btw- "bikers" ride motorcycles.
Cyclists ride bikes.
New York, San Francisco (where bikers shut down the GG Bridge) and Tucson (the city, not the foothills) is a left wing college town, are all run by left wing Democrats who think they own the world.
Tucson has this big bike thing in December called "Tour de Tucson" (get it?) in which the women's division has been won by trannies the last two years.
"It’s hard to alert walkers to your voice if the walkers have earbuds in."
That shifts the blame, but not the obligation. If you're close enough to see the earbuds, it's already too late to alert the walkers.
The bike lobby is fond of bloviating about their rights. When someone asks about responsibilities, some clam up. Most fly into a blind rage. It's quite entertaining, and revealing.
There is a spot on Midvale where a bike path crosses the road. The bikes have a stop sign while the cars do not. Yet it is typical for all 4 lanes of cars to stop when a bike appears at the crossing. What these people are doing is stopping in the middle of the road to let a vehicle with a stop sign pass. Those are road rules I never learned. What is wrong with these people? The drivers think of themselves as virtuous, but what they really are is a traffic hazard.
de Blasio is a racist.
95% of the people breaking the laws on bikes in Manhattan are white.
The vast majority of victims are white.
But the City doesn't care when it's rich white people killing rich white people.
I wonder how the aggressive style of cycling goes over in places like Beijing or Amsterdam where there are crowds of just folks on bicycles.
Don't get me started! Driving as much as I do on narrow mountain roads, I see cyclists as one of the biggest road hazards--more so than those 'Oversized Load' trucks that are required to have a warning car precede them.
So, you're coming around a bend at regulation speed and here is a cyclist on the edge of your lane [no shoulders on most of these roads] and a logging truck coming the other way. Your choices are:
1. Slam on your brakes
2. Dodge the cyclist but hit the logging truck head-on
3. Dive off the road into a canyon.
4. Hit the cyclist :-)
So far I've practiced option number 1 but there may come a time...
I think many bicyclists over the age of 20 are pricks (younger ones are too, but usually too small and slow to hurt anyone). But 7 people killed in over 8 years in a city the size of New York isn't much of an epidemic to warrant the headline. Still, I'd like to see bicyclist start paying for their privilege the way drivers do; with tickets and fines for doing dangerous and damaging stuff.
The bicycle was invented by Europe. I don’t understand how woke white people riding racist machines is viewed as virtuous.
And yet the regime here in Arlington wants to turn the county over to the bicyclists.
Leland @ 10:28: “...paying for their privilege...”. It would be logical for the politicians to require cyclists to be licensed and insured. Another source of revenue and control, made possible and arguably necessary by the behavior of the assholes.
I used to cycle everywhere and it was a source of great satisfaction (and kept me fit). I learned how to anticipate and avoid trouble, and stuck mostly to quiet roads. This was long before bike lanes. I never rode on sidewalks and I knew that an argument with a car would never favor me. Common sense and a grasp of physics was all you needed.
An enduring lesson from that experience was to drive with extra care around cyclists. I try to give them a whole lane. Of course, I don’t see that many of them where I drive. If I did (e.g. NYC) I would probably get fed up.
I live in the DC area (Alexandria), and I ride my bike to work 1-2 times per week, mostly on dedicated bike trails. When I first started doing this, 10 or so years ago, I found it exhilarating and relaxing to not have to deal with ordinary traffic those days.
Now, I find it every bit as stressful -- actually more -- than driving. Why? Other asshole bikers. Let's catalog the various types of asshole:
1. The alpha male asshole, age 25-45: NEVER warns you when passing, even though it is a bike trail regulation (not to mention common sense and common courtesy). Passes you on corners at high rates of speed. A typical DC smug, self-important sociopath.
2. E-bike riders. Ride on the trail well above the speed limit (yes, there is one, 15 mph). Like the alpha male asshole, never warns when passing at a speed likely in excess of 20 mph. Also not a very good biker usually, which is why they like the e-bike.
3. People on rental bikes. Usually tourists who have no biking ability. A hazard to themselves and others.
4. Electric scooter riders: technically not a bike, but now becoming an incredible hazard to bikers and pedestrians. Often incompetent tourists, as in #3 above
Of these 4 categories, #1 is by far the biggest source of risk and aggravation. By orders of magnitude. Having to share the trail with them is taking the pleasure out of biking.
Common sense and a grasp of physics was all you needed.
No need for those today when you have ENTITLEMENT.
Drivers need to be deferential to bikers, because the bikers have the special vulnerability.
They are 'special vulnerable' because the rules of the road--like stop-signs and roundabout rules do not apply to them, in their estimation. Drive on Hy. M east of Pewaukee and watch the gang of old-fart cyclists blow through stop signs, up to 20 at a time. Drive in a roundabout (another story, by the way) and have some damn fool cyclist screech and yell because HE did not wait for the car ALREADY in the place--yah, the motorist who has the right-of-way.
Somewhere along the line, a few of these entitled assholes will be injured and/or killed. I don't think there'll be much sympathy from motorists.
Me? I've long advocated for the same kind of "traffic calming" measures that the Arlington regime likes to impose for motor vehicles, such as speed bumps on trails or barriers that you have to go around. The latter is particularly needed where trails run into crosswalks, which would force bicyclists to get off their bikes and walk in the crossWALK, rather than speed through them before turning vehicles have a chance to see them.
"Bicyclists can be the worst. They think of themselves as vulnerable and virtuous"
I never had issues with bicyclists (being a casual one myself for 50 years) until moving to Iowa and experiencing RAGBRAI. It is a great annual event for most, but the hardcore cyclists come off as really arrogant and entitled. I have noticed the same arrogance here in the Tucson area which draws hardcore cyclists from around the country.
Time to start stringing some wire across the paths. Ala The Great Escape.
"They think of themselves as vulnerable and virtuous, and they are, but from that starting point you can make a lot of errors."
They're arrogant entitled liberals.
@Unkown
THere is a battle royale in Alexandria being reported regarding bike lanes near a hospital. It pits the citizens of the city against bike lane fanatics, who are financed by scooter and e-bike companies, as well as the owner of the HOT toll lanes about to go in --- a classic astroturfing operation. The hospital and FIre Department have raised serious concerns, but they are blown off. THe fanatics take the position that the hospital and Fire Department do not understand emergency response services as well as the bike lobby. And city hall seems to agree. I understand Alexandria has a crackpot mayor who is a DeBlasio wannabe who has made statements like the voters get a say one day every three years at election, and between elections should not be heard from.
This is how we got Trump, and get more Trump.
Ignatius Acton Chesterton OCD said...
The bicycle was invented by Europe. I don’t understand how woke white people riding racist machines is viewed as virtuous.
It's really quite simple; there's even a saying i made up about it...
The Left doesn’t really believe in the things they lecture the rest of us about.
Our walking paths have "Speed limit 15 MPH" and "Announce when passing" signs every 1/2 mile that are regularly ignored by bikers. I've been missed by inches time after time. Sometimes people will put logs on the path - I don't believe in vigilante violence - but i understand the frustration.
Bike lanes = welfare for white mostly-leftists.
THe insufferable and entitled attitude of bikers was captured in 2018 in (where else?) San Francisco. A bicyclist (Bucchere) ran over and killed an elderly pedestrian and was charged with multiple crimes. The biker's response? He posted on a blog that he was “way too committed to stop” at the intersection — then dedicated the post to his “late helmet (that) died in heroic fashion.” That about sums it up.
Copenhagen is a counter example to all those above. The hordes of bicyclists have their own lanes and they stay in them. I'm there fairly often and I've never seen a Danish cyclist go through a red light. The only problem is when tourists unobservantly wander off the sidewalk and into the bike lane.
mockturtle said...
Don't get me started! Driving as much as I do on narrow mountain roads, I see cyclists as one of the biggest road hazards--more so than those 'Oversized Load' trucks that are required to have a warning car precede them.
For about 10 years, now, i've been driving on the Blue Ridge Parkway; it is (or was) my favorite National Park. But each time i ride on it, i see more and more (and more and more) bicyclists on it.
I'm not sure you could design a place WORSE suited for bicycles.
only 2 lanes(yours and oncoming), NO shoulders, Blind corners,a rock wall on one side, and an abyss on the other. OH! and hills steep enough for bikes to be going about 2 miles an hour.
Needless to say, ANY bicyclist that is idiotic enough to ride the parkway is NOT going to move over (not that there's anywhere for them to move to. If you have your windows down, you'll be able to hear many (if not Most) swear at you when you pass.
It used to be just near Asheville that i'd see them; now you see them all over. . .
You couldn't pay me enough to try that; but then i'm able to think things through*
think things through* if/WHEN i hit a bike; and i tell the policeman
"I'm SO SORRY! i NEVER SAW HIM UNTIL IT WAS TOO LATE",
What do you suppose the North Carolina Patrolman will do? If y'all guessed nothing; y'all are right!
I understand Alexandria has a crackpot mayor who is a DeBlasio wannabe
I'd be relatively in favor of Statehood for DC, If(and only IF) it resumed its original borders (both Maryland and Virginia). It's FUN to mention this to pro-statehood people; they quickly say: "Well, NO; that's not the point"
E-bikes aren't carbon-neutral. They rely on an external energy source that requires offset, as well as suffering from energy wastage during transfer from source to bike. Not to mention those nasty materials composing the energy storage, which can't be recycled or easily disposed.
In N J we still have these archaic laws preventing us from pumping our own gas. Many of the gas station attendants are from India or Pakistan, and many ride bicycles to work every day. They are far more courteous and respectful than the $5000-bike-and - i -dress like Lance Armstrong types.
"Bicyclists can be the worst. They think of themselves as vulnerable and virtuous, and they are ...
@Mease, can’t you do anything about your wife’s gullibility?"
Guys need some gullibility in their women.
They need their own lanes. Bicycles and motor vehicles do not belong on the road together. And cyclists should not be allowed to ride on shoulder-less mountain roads. Having driven the Blue Ridge Parkway, I know what gilbar is talking about and in the NW there are numerous similar roads with an ever increasing number of cyclists. One summer I was driving my usual Highway 12 route through White Pass, WA, and there was some kind of bike rally with hundreds of cyclists pedaling merrily between Scylla and Charybdis. It was a nightmare for us motorists.
I won't consider bicyclists on public roads to be my equals unless and until they pay an annual use tax, like the hefty gas taxes drivers of motor vehicles pay, to maintain those roads.
Otherwise they're just another group of free riders.
(I bet they jump turnstiles and abuse ER's as well.)
Virtuous, my ass.
While riding my horse on my own property 3 trespassing bicyclists came around a corner and shot by me. Unfortunately the double barreled kick missed them.
Bikes in NY are nuts - but Pedestrians are starting to push back. Sure, a bike can hurt us, but we can hurt a cyclist too.
gilbar:
"What do you suppose the North Carolina Patrolman will do? If y'all guessed nothing; y'all are right!"
***********************
If you collide with the bike and the idiot on it is hurt, HE will make damn sure something happens.
In MASS, drivers are required to file a collision report with the police and their car insurance company if they are in a collision causing $1,000 or more damage, and/or a person is injured or killed.
Perhaps NC has a similar law. If so, you wouldn't be able to simply drive off and forget about the incident. Even if the cyclist was unlawfully driving on that road, and in fact you could not see him "until it was too late", you would still have to file a report.
The Green Syndrome.
I went out and bought a bicycle because I've always wanted to be considered 'vulnerable and virtuous'. I must admit that after riding my bike for over a week on I-10, most of my friends still consider me a jerk.
I think it's their problem, not mine.
"They think of themselves as vulnerable and virtuous, and they are"
Vulnerable yes -- but why virtuous?
Because, and only because, our Hostess does it.
1) Our former sheriff would doll his younger deputies up in spandex and give them a reasonably hot road bike and have them infiltrate the pelotons that depart the rendezvous points in Boulder every weekend day. They would bring their ticket books. This was a very popular program with many though the bicyclists thought it abomination. The current sheriff hasn't continued it.
My friend, Ol' Bob ___, lives in a pastoral area about 15 miles from here. 2 lane roads, no shoulders to speak of, lots of little hills and consequent no-passing lanes running for miles. He chipped his diesel. Some of these groups would take the entire lane - we have a single-file requirement here as do many of the posters above - and would keep him behind for miles. When the chance would finally come he would downshift, get alongside, flick the chip to "Smoke," and envelop the whole crew in a black cloud.
are 'E-Bikers' the vapers of cycling?
I somehow managed over 350,000 miles of bicycle riding on public roads without getting in the way.
The most fun I've ever had riding a bike (used to put 1,500 to 2,000 miles on my Gary Fisher every summer) was riding in downtown Vancouver, BC on a fall day.
No bikes lanes. Massive traffic. Nobody caring if they ran you over. E-ticket ride. Massive rush. Organized mayhem.
And not a single incident with a vehicle or another cyclist.
"They think of themselves as vulnerable and virtuous, and they are"
"Vulnerable yes -- but why virtuous?"
Because global warming hoax, I guess.
Do any of you whiners know any cyclists? I haven't ridden as many miles as rhhardin but I've ridden a lot. I make it a point to stay out of the way - the practical fact is my 165 lbs is no match for even a small car traveling at 30-40 mph. I often ride alone but when riding with others we follow the rules of the road and stay out of the way. I do it for fun, exercise, and socially - the same reasons I golf. Virtue has nothing to do with it.
That said, people that break the rules of the road, endangering and hurting themselves and others, ought to be punished.
Thanks to stevew, we now know at least one virtuous cyclist.
Unknown - The middle aged asshole is known in England as a MAML - Middle Aged Man in Lycra.
Yeah, and a Patriots fan too. H8 away! :-)
I signal my virtue by expressing my support for PDT, in MA, in public. Like cycling, hasn't got me hurt yet.
Stevew asks: Do any of you whiners know any cyclists?
One of my sons-in-law is a cyclist and I know several more. And I can't say with any degree of honesty that they are any better than those described in these posts because I never see them on the road. And if I did I would probably be just as irritated at their behavior. 'Share the Road' with bicycles is as stupid a directive as they come. Roads were made for automobiles not for bicycles. Sorry. Collect enough money to build bike lanes everywhere you want to ride.
, you wouldn't be able to simply drive off and forget about the incident. Even if the cyclist was unlawfully driving on that road, and in fact you could not see him "until it was too late", you would still have to file a report.
Curious HOW you got the idea that ANYTHING i'd said implied that i Wouldn't be waiting for the Police.
SINCE it wouldn't be my FAULT; WHY would i NOT wait?
I SAID that i'd be telling the Policeman: "I never saw him, until it was Too Late"
Are you NOT able to comprehend basic english; or will you just NOT comprehend.
"Things you don't see in bike lanes in Houston: bikes."
I was in Houston in April, and we used the city's bike share bikes to ride around the mostly empty streets. We rode in the bike lanes. We did see a few others using the bikes.
"They ride with the car traffic while runners and walkers ride in the opposite direction. That creates some problems."
In New York, cyclists must ride with the traffic, by law.
They think of themselves as vulnerable and virtuous, and they are, but from that starting point you can make a lot of errors.
They are neither. I know that path in Riverside Park. There are no cars, just bikes and pedestrians, and I've seen bikers act like lunatic assholes toward pedestrians. A friend's father was killed by a cyclist in Central Park, again no cars there just bike lanes, runners, and walkers. I almost got killed by a cyclist speeding through a red light, right in front of a traffic cop who just shrugged her shoulders. The cyclist was a 100 yards away before I could even turn around to see who it was. But they just keep adding bike lanes that are hardly used, and clogging up traffic.
How does riding a bike make anyone virtuous?
The idea is that by riding self-propelled vehicles one is not spewing polluting gasoline exhaust into the environment. I don't know if many cyclists actually think of themselves as virtuous simply because they are cyclists, but, there are probably some who do.
While cyclists can be aggressive, or distracted, or under the impression they always have the right of way, there are many pedestrians who are simply oblivious to their surroundings. I have seen people step into a bike line looking the other way, or jaywalking, or walking three or four abreast in a lane shared by walkers, runners, cyclists, and skateboarders. Whether a pedestrian or cyclist, one should always stay to the right unless passing, and one should always assume that others don't see you, and take appropriate precautions and courtesies by deferring to them (to protect oneself, foremost, and them, secondarily).
"'Vulnerable yes -- but why virtuous?'
"Because global warming hoax, I guess."
Even if you think global warming is a hoax,"Car exhaust fumes contain certain poisonous chemicals, including carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, formaldehyde, benzene and soot, all of which can be detrimental to the human body if consistently inhaled in large quantities."
The problems I witness are rarely due to single cyclists, although the notion that red lights and stop signs don't apply to bicycles seems to be ubiquitous among them.
The real problems where I live are the morons who think cycling together in a club or some other group allows them to freely block the road by not riding in single file. If you complain or toot at them, they go nearly berserk.
I used to ride a bike for sport and exercise and loved it, but a lot of today's riders are out of hand.
Shouldn’t DeBlasio & all of the other “green”* lefties who run big cities impose a carbon tax on bicyclists for all of the Carbon Dioxide the bicyclists EXHALE? And if they are straining to go faster, their breathing is more labored and they would be spewing even more CO2 into the atmosphere. Just sayin’...
* The do as I say, not as I do crowd. Like when Al Gore gives a 45 minute speech on global warming caused by humans while his entourage is parked outside the forum with 3 SUVs running the entire time or Al’s heated outdoor swimming pool at his Tennessee mansion that costs more to heat in one month than my entire natural gas / electrical bill is for a whole year in Wisconsin.
While cyclists can be aggressive, or distracted, or under the impression they always have the right of way, there are many pedestrians who are simply oblivious to their surroundings.
Sure, pedestrians make mistakes, but they don't put anyone but themselves in any real danger. Cyclists kill people, and all too often by deliberately flouting laws and in reckless disregard of others. There's no comparison, and no justification for what some of these cyclists do.
Are you sucking on a tailpipe Cookie?
One disturbing trend that I have noticed in cities are adults & children over the age of 10 riding their bikes on the city sidewalks that are not designated as bike paths. Recently, I was almost hit by a bicyclist going about 15 mph on an older & narrow sidewalk, without so much as a warning or an “excuse me!” from a 25 year old male who should have known better, who was just too damn lazy to use the residential street the sidewalk was on, or just felt ENTITLED to use the sidewalk. Or, if I am making a right turn in my car at a red light, out of nowhere comes a bicyclist on the sidewalk traveling 10-15 mph. When I checked my blindspot for pedestrians and not seeing any, I start to turn but the the cyclist comes, and I have stop quickly to avoid a collision.
This is what the Fond du Lac, WI, (where I live) city ordinance says about bike riding on sidewalks:
Bicycles having wheels of a diameter of 20 inches or less may be operated on sidewalks, except where prohibited by official sign, but in single file only.
This indicates to me that only small children bikes are allowed on sidewalks, which I am ok with as long as the child is accompanied by their parent.
I enjoy riding my bicycle. I also follow the rules of the road for my own safety. Just like we have driver’s education required for people to drive a motorized vehicle, we should require elementary schools to teach 4th or 5th graders how to properly operate a bicycle on roads, bike lanes, and paved trails (and to stay off of sidewalks!).
The idea is that by riding self-propelled vehicles one is not spewing polluting gasoline exhaust into the environment. I don't know if many cyclists actually think of themselves as virtuous simply because they are cyclists, but, there are probably some who do.
So, when someone loads their self-propelled vehicle onto their car; and Then drives 12 miles to the bike path; so that they can take a 2 hour ride, and then drive the 12 miles back to their house: They should think of themselves as 'virtuous'?
Or
When someone flies to Houston, and then uses the 'mostly empty' bike lanes; They should feel 'virtuous'?
Oh man, the hate for cyclists here in Seattle is DEEP. I'm all for it. One day I was crossing a downtown Seattle street; I had the 'walk' signal and was in a crosswalk. IOW - I had the right of way. This dude on a bike runs the red light - nearly knocking me over in the process.
His reaction was typical biker-arrogant, yelling at ME as if I was the person in the wrong. I LOVE old-school manual, analog things. I despise driving and would love to bike/walk everywhere. So I am no fan of the car. But most bikers are total arrogant assholes that can go fuck themselves - at least the ones too dumb to figure out in a biker/pedestrian showdown the person on the bike is the aggressor.
There are problems with cars, bikes, pedestrians, all. They each suck in their own way.
But if 7 pedestrians died in 8 years and, as the article accidentally let slip, at least some of them are the pedestrian’s fault, it’s not a big problem. Certainly not compared to the threat posed by cars to bicyclists and pedestrians alike.
Bicycles don't kill people. People kill people.
We don't want to take away peoples' bicycles, but it's time for common-sense bicycle control.
gilbar wrote:
me: "you wouldn't be able to simply drive off and forget about the incident. Even if the cyclist was unlawfully driving on that road, and in fact you could not see him "until it was too late", you would still have to file a report.
Curious HOW you got the idea that ANYTHING i'd said implied that i Wouldn't be waiting for the Police.
SINCE it wouldn't be my FAULT; WHY would i NOT wait?
>>>you pre-judged your own case, that's why. It's the state that would make that determination, not you, if there were an injury or death.
>>>Also, drivers who are not at fault sometimes panic, making themselves liable for fleeing the scene.
I SAID that i'd be telling the Policeman: "I never saw him, until it was Too Late"
>>>So what? Suppose you were texting or speeding at the time---think that would get you off the hook?
Are you NOT able to comprehend basic english; or will you just NOT comprehend.
*************
>>>Sorry, fuckwit, but you clearly implied there would be nothing to keep you from driving off AFTER the nothing-saying policeman put you in the clear. And you have obviously demonstrated your animus toward bike riders up-thread.
>>>In fact, that policeman would certainly cite North Carolina Law to you, to whit:
***************
https://statelaws.findlaw.com/north-carolina-law/north-carolina-car-accident-report-basics.html
"When Does an Accident Need to be Reported?
North Carolina law requires the driver of a vehicle involved in a serious accident to immediately notify local law enforcement. A reportable accident is a crash that causes injury or death to any person or property damage of at least $1,000. An otherwise reportable car accident that occurs on private property does not necessarily need to be reported.
If the accident occurred in a city, then the appropriate agency to contact is the city's police department. If the accident outside city limits, the appropriate agency is the North Carolina Highway Patrol or county sheriff's office. In any circumstances, when you dial 911, your emergency will be routed to the proper agency.
Do the Police Always File an Accident Report?
North Carolina law requires law enforcement to investigate a "reportable accident" and make a written report within 24 hours of the accident. Cities and counties may respond to less serious accidents. All accident reports must be filed with the North Carolina Division of Motor Vehicles and a copy can be requested for a $5 fee. The report must provide the following information:
The cause of the crash
Conditions existing at the time of the crash
People and vehicles involved
Whether the vehicle was seized or subject to forfeiture under G.S. 20-28.2.
Insurance information for the vehicle driven by the person who the officer identified as at fault for the accident
Creating an Accident Report
When weather or other circumstances keep law enforcement from coming to the scene of your accident, you might need to file a report yourself.
North Carolina does not have a crash report form for public use, so when drafting your report be sure to include:
Description of the crash, including how many people were in both cars
Name and insurance information of everyone involved
Names of witnesses and their detailed accounts of the crash
Details about damages and injuries
Diagram of the accident scene
Photos of damage and video statements"
*********
>>>So... a NC policeman arriving at the scene and seeing personal injury or worse would gather all that info from you, NOT "say nothing".
And if no policeman showed up, YOU would have to file that report.
>>>Q E EFFING D.
>>>A couple of community college night courses on Remedial Critical Thinking and Writing for Clarity might help you.
"So, when someone loads their self-propelled vehicle onto their car; and Then drives 12 miles to the bike path; so that they can take a 2 hour ride, and then drive the 12 miles back to their house: They should think of themselves as 'virtuous'?"
No, of course not, and I never said so.
"When someone flies to Houston, and then uses the 'mostly empty' bike lanes; They should feel 'virtuous'?"
No, of course not, and I never said so. Intellectually dishonest argumentation is no way to go through life, Gilly.
"Are you sucking on a tailpipe Cookie?"
What makes you ask?
"Sure, pedestrians make mistakes, but they don't put anyone but themselves in any real danger. Cyclists kill people, and all too often by deliberately flouting laws and in reckless disregard of others. There's no comparison, and no justification for what some of these cyclists do."
No, there's no justification for reckless behavior by cyclists, but as to the dangers being borne solely by pedestrians, there was a case in Central Park last week where a rider on an electric bike collided with a pedestrian. The cyclist suffered fatal head injuries, while the pedestrian's injuries were apparently minor. (I don't know who was at fault in this particular accident.)
The cyclist suffered fatal head injuries, while the pedestrian's injuries were apparently minor. (I don't know who was at fault in this particular accident.)
From what I've read, the e-cyclist in that case ran a red light, hit the pedestrian in the crosswalk, and was not wearing a helmet.
But yes, it's remotely possible that a careless pedestrian could cause the death of a cyclist, but this isn't such a case, and even had it been a green light, the cyclist would have contributed to his demise by not wearing a helmet. (Also, I'm not sure e-cycles are even legal to ride in Central Park.)
Cookie ignores my point made early on. Bike lanes produce more CO2 because they cause congestion.
Google is your friend. DuckDuckGo is your less nosey more admirable friend.
Bike lanes produce more CO2 because they cause congestion.
This. And not just CO2 of course, but SO2 and everything else from cars. It's one thing to have them in suburban areas where traffic is not so congested, but to put them in places like Manhattan and reduce the lanes in avenues from four to three (but really, with all the double-parking, more like from three to two) is nuts. And on top of the pollution, it's difficult for emergency vehicles to get through. How many people have died because ambulances take longer to arrive because main thoroughfares have been narrowed to accommodate empty bike lanes?
If I go to jail, it is because I have decided it is worth it to injure or kill a cyclist.
"Bicycles don't kill people. People kill people."
Well, I can remember when SUV's were killing people daily. And guns kill people all the time. And then there's bulldozers with murder on their mind. See: "Killdozer" (1974)
So, 7 million people in NYC, and 1 person dies a year from getting hit by a Bike?
Yeah, not much of a problem.
This seems like an exclusively NYC issue. In suburban north Texas bicyclists are simply annoying.
rcocean said...So, 7 million people in NYC, and 1 person dies a year from getting hit by a Bike
Yeah, not much of a problem
Yep, and that’s all incidents, not just the ones that are the bicyclists’ fault. The drivers on this thread are stupid selfish whiners.
CWJ said...
Announcing your intent as in "on your left" would be nice. I don't understand why this seems to be an imposition for many cyclists.
9/2/19, 8:54 AM
I do most of my biking on a bike trail that is also frequented by walkers and joggers. I always call out "on your left" and ring my bell when I am coming up behind them. The problem is that many of them have earbuds in and can't hear me because they have the volume turned way up. I've never hit anybody but there have been a few scary moments when I was about to pass on the left and the oblivious walker/jogger suddenly swerved to the left and I had to slam on the brakes to avoid a collision.
Everyone sharing a public space needs to be aware of their surroundings, not just bicyclists. Too many people act like they are the only people in the world.
rcocean said...So, 7 million people in NYC, and 1 person dies a year from getting hit by a Bike
*******************
Please. There were 270 pedestrians injured by bicycles in NYC in 2018.
https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/bicycle-crash-data-report-2018.pdf
Then there's this:
https://www.autoinsurancecenter.com/traffic-accidents-in-new-york-city.htm
"The most vulnerable type of vehicle in an NYC traffic accident is the bicycle – 77.5% of collisions involving bikes resulted in an injury." (2015 data)
I guess that's not a problem for YOU, so...meh.
exiled said...
I always call out "on your left" and ring my bell when I am coming up behind them. The problem is that many of them have earbuds in and can't hear me ...
this is true for me as well.
Bike lanes are the epitome of progressive policies.
They reduce the efficiency of the roads for their primary purpose, moving safely and quickly from A to B.
They end up being used almost entirely by the rich, virtue signallers who pay $3000 for their bicycle and gear.
They expose the cyclers to harmful emissions by placing them next to vehicles.
They externalise the cost of roads and maintenance away from a segment of their users.
When USA institute social credit system owning bike get you bonus points?
Model of bike have point scale?
Blogger Ken B said...
You say they are virtuous. That assumes facts not in evidence. Bike lanes cause congestion, which increases smog and CO2. Bikers demand the right to impose those costs on the rest of us. Where is the virtue?
Here in Los Angeles all the smog, congestion and CO2 are imposed on the residents by cars. Bikes don't do squat because no one rides them.
"Bicyclists can be the worst"
I drive a lot and I bike a lot. The above statement is true, however, on any given bicycle ride in town my safety will be endangered by multiple (and I mean a whole lot of them) drivers who willfully, wantonly and blithely ignore my semaphore directed right of way at a controlled intersection.
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
The only way you can survive urban cycling is to assume that all car drivers are careless. Of course the majority are not, but enough are that you cannot risk it.
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I am 77. So when i ride to my bike to the bank or library i do so on residential streets or on our almost totally unused sidewalks. I figure if someone hits me at my age i will never get out of bed again. One thing i often see. An astonishing number of drivers are talking on cellphones, especially young women.
I am 77. So when i ride to my bike to the bank or library i do so on residential streets or on our almost totally unused sidewalks. I figure if someone hits me at my age i will never get out of bed again. One thing i often see. An astonishing number of drivers are talking on cellphones, especially young women.
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a whole lot of explaining to a whole lot of explaining
a) When i hit and kill you
b) I will wait for the police
c) i will (as I have been saying, over and over again) "I didn't see him, until it was TOO LATE"
d) the police will fill out their forms, AND LET ME GO
e) i will laugh and laugh and laugh
"Cookie ignores my point made early on."
I didn't ignore it, because I didn't see it. I don't always read every comment in a thread. Also, I am not espousing the view that cyclists are "virtuous" because they do not generate toxic emissions, (which they do not), but am only answering the question raised by a view as to why (some) cyclists consider themselves virtuous.
I don't know about elsewhere, but NYC has plenty of traffic congestion absent any bike lanes, and I don't see how the bike lanes here cause the generation of any significant additional toxic emissions. Which is to say, I do not see traffic pileups in the city caused by the added bike lanes.
Most of us think of bicycle commuters as elite leftists. In Houston, the average bicycle commuter is one of the invisible people, illegal aliens looking for day work. In my west area community, I never see a someone on a racing bike, but at the local Home Depot, there will be 20 to 30 bikes ridden there by people looking for day work. Its the same for bikers riding on the sidewalk, men in work clothes heading to and from work.
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In parts of AZ, cyclists are mainly meth-heads.
I drive a lot and I bike a lot. The above statement is true, however, on any given bicycle ride in town my safety will be endangered by multiple (and I mean a whole lot of them) drivers who willfully, wantonly and blithely ignore my semaphore directed right of way at a controlled intersection.
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
The only way you can survive urban cycling is to assume that all car drivers are careless. Of course the majority are not, but enough are that you cannot risk it.
I don't understand this pov. I grew up in Dallas. The traffic is so scary, that when my college friends would road trip there to party, they would pull off the road 10 miles out and ask me to drive the rest. I was the "native" who could get them trough the jungle alive.
When I was in the Marines in North Carolina I traded a friend my beat up car for his motorcycle. It was my first one, and I had a blast racing it all over the east coast.
But when I got out and moved back to Dallas, first thing I did? I sold that bike. As a native of Dallas, I knew that my life expectancy on 2 wheels would be 2 months.
I was a US Marine who had snaked LAV-25s through actual minefields in Somalia, and even I wasn't foolhardy enough to risk taking a motorcycle through Dallas traffic.
I bike. I use bike paths whenever possible, 2nd choice is roads if there is a wide enough margin that a car can pass me without danger. As much as possible I avoid roads where there is no margin, when I have to be out in traffic. A couple of places on my commute I have no choice, but I try to minimize interaction with cars as much as possible. I will go on sidewalks (but only if there are no pedestrians) to avoid being on the road. I use flashers and yellow clothing to be visible.
Honestly, not claiming any virtue, just trying to get some exercise without getting injured.
Here in Seattle the maniacal City Council has been replacing lanes in downtown with bike paths. I agree that just adds to the congestion and don't support it.
It's worth noting the difference between a bike lane and a bike path or bike trail. A bike lane is part of a road. Paths and trails are separate from the road system. No cars on paths and trails.
I use paths & trails whenever possible, lanes only when I must.
Gilbar:
d) the police will fill out their forms, AND LET ME GO
e) i will laugh and laugh and laugh
You would laugh when you kill someone?
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