September 10, 2019

"I informed John Bolton last night that his services are no longer needed at the White House. I disagreed strongly with many of his suggestions..."

"... as did others in the Administration, and therefore I asked John for his resignation, which was given to me this morning. I thank John very much for his service. I will be naming a new National Security Advisor next week."

Said President Trump, quoted in "Trump Fires John Bolton as National Security Adviser" (NYT).
His departure comes as Mr. Trump is pursuing diplomatic openings with two of the United States’ most intractable enemies, efforts that have troubled hard-liners in the administration, like Mr. Bolton, who view North Korea and Iran as profoundly untrustworthy.

The president has continued to court Kim Jong-un, the repressive leader of North Korea, despite Mr. Kim’s refusal to surrender his nuclear program and despite repeated short-range missile tests by the North that have rattled its neighbors. In recent days, Mr. Trump has expressed a willingness to meet with President Hassan Rouhani of Iran under the right circumstances, and even to extend short-term financing to Tehran, although the offer has so far been rebuffed.

To his admirers, Mr. Bolton was supposed to be a check on what they feared would be naïve diplomacy, a cleareyed realist who would keep a president without prior experience in foreign affairs from giving away the store to wily adversaries. But Mr. Trump has long complained privately that Mr. Bolton was too willing to get the United States into another war....

290 comments:

1 – 200 of 290   Newer›   Newest»
FrankiM said...

So, why did he choose Bolton to begin with? I’m not sorry to say, the sheer incompetence of this Administration should give you anxiety. All is not well.

Robert Edick said...

Good news.

Ralph L said...

NYT has something nice to say about Bolton. Red letter day.

JohnAnnArbor said...

This is actually a fascinating contrast.

purplepenquin said...

Plenty of things that one could criticize our President over, but being a "warhawk" isn't one of 'em. He's shown a willingness to broker peace deals with countries other administrations wouldn't even talk to, and he appears to be bringing troops home more than he is sending 'em out.

Getting rid of Bolton is a great move in continuing with that trend, and I applaud him for doing so.

doctrev said...

Of course the NYT will try to pretty up Bolton: they want those neocon votes (which they already have). But it's a massive turnoff to the greater part of the Sanders brigade, who correctly regard neocons as malevolent idiots. Is the Times TRYING to detonate the Democrat coalition?

I don't care. I never cared about Bolton and am happy he's gone. Ding dong, the witch is dead.

I Callahan said...

So, why did he choose Bolton to begin with? I’m not sorry to say, the sheer incompetence of this Administration should give you anxiety. All is not well.

So any administration that fires a cabinet member is incompetent? Are there any that HAVEN’T fired a cabinet member? Or are you just sticking to your narrative as usual?

Bay Area Guy said...

It wasn't a good fit, but there was some good honest, healthy tension between their respective policy preferences: Bolton was a hawk/interventionist, Trump is pro-military, but against interventions.

Of course, 66 Million folks voted for Trump, and 0 for Bolton. So, Trump's preferences should prevail. That's how it works under the Constitution.

If Bolton is smart (and he is), he won't trash Trump or run to the NYT or write a scathing memoir, which is what many political weasels do.

Ralph L said...

Getting rid of Bolton is a great move in continuing with that trend

OTOH, Bolton covered Trump's right flank and symbolized America's Big Stick in negotiations with Evildoers. I assume those are the reasons Trump hired him, since he must have known his history.

We don't know if Bolton was an honest broker of defense community opinions and facts, the main job of the NSA.

MBunge said...

"So, why did he choose Bolton to begin with?"


Because he needed someone with national security experience whom he could trust not to betray him to the media every chance he got? Because he needed someone to shore up support on the war-mongering right of the GOP?

This incompetence charge against Trump shows how truly insane our public discourse has become. Is Trump impulsive or impetuous? Perhaps. But calling someone "incompetent" because he recognizes when he's made a mistake and tries to fix it is loony. Incompetent would more accurately fit someone like George W. Bush who kept Donald Rumsfeld as Defense Secretary despite his awesomely bad job of handling post-invasion Iraq.

Mike

Rob said...

Having previously characterized Bolton as the devil incarnate, will the MSM now decide he was a valuable check on Trump? Or will they say Trump did the right thing but for the wrong reasons? Either way, the narrative is sure to be: Trump bad.

mockturtle said...

Bolton is a wartime consigliere. And, while we need such a figure in our domestic affairs, it's time for a Tom Hagen in our foreign policy.

readering said...

Just another morning in Trumpland. Who's up next?

FrankiM said...

“So any administration that fires a cabinet member is incompetent?”

No. Compare Trump Administration with any other, and you’ll get your answer.

readering said...

Incompetence revealed in way POTUS handled simple matter of changing NSA.

gahrie said...

Bolton was my choice for president in 2016. I would vote for him if he ran in 2020.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Get over yourself, Fen. Your pique interests me not at all.

mockturtle said...

In his quest for vengeance toward Althouse, Fen has crapped on us all. Nice, going, Fen. :-(

Ann Althouse said...

@mockturtle

Sorry, that was an accidental deletion.

Big Mike said...

@Fen, you are redefining the word ”childish” to a new low.

Qwinn said...

@Fen,

Yeah, seriously, time to stop. Not one person here thinks your continuing this is a good idea, except the Lefties who want to see you perma-banned.

FrankiM said...

“This incompetence charge against Trump shows how truly insane our public discourse has become. Is Trump impulsive or impetuous? Perhaps. But calling someone "incompetent" because he recognizes when he's made a mistake and tries to fix it is loony.”

I wonder if Trump used his trusty Sharpie to sign Bolton’s dismissal forms. Trump fixed his “mistake” about Alabama in a truly competent way too, eh? Trump has made more “mistakes” than any modern President. As I said, compare his presidency with any other modern US presidency. It would be so refreshing to hear some of you here actually stop making excuses for Trump.

Bay Area Guy said...

@mockturtle,

Bolton is a wartime consigliere. And, while we need such a figure in our domestic affairs, it's time for a Tom Hagen in our foreign policy

Well done, nailed it!

Andrew said...

"@mockturtle
Sorry, that was an accidental deletion."

Friendly fire casualties are always the hardest. RIP, mockturtle.

Qwinn said...

Heh. Provide us with a mistake by Trump that compares with any of these 3, much less all 3 put together:

Lybia
Syria
"I'll have more flexibility after the election"

FrankiM said...

‘...except the Lefties who want to see you perma-banned.’

Don’t include me, I don’t give a rat’s ass about Fen’s fate.

narciso said...

at this point in Reagans administration, he had gone through Richard allen, William clark, that was the longest serving adviser up to that point, that covered the kal 007 incident, I think McFarlane came later,

Ken B said...

Isn’t this a signal? Trump has never made any secret of the fact he is not a neo con. Bolton was on the team as a devils advocate, he never made policy. Letting him go is a signal.

roesch/voltaire said...

Never a good choice in the first place, at least give Trump credit for knowing when to fire one of his many “great” choices that don’t work out.

Michael K said...

It wasn't a good fit, but there was some good honest, healthy tension between their respective policy preferences: Bolton was a hawk/interventionist, Trump is pro-military, but against interventions.

Yes and I hope that Bolton and Trump stay in communication. Read "Team of Rivals" if you haven't. The only good book she has written.

Of course, there is Inga who could volunteer. Having a really crazy ignoramus there would fool them all.

Michael K said...

Bolton was on the team as a devils advocate, he never made policy. Letting him go is a signal.

Yes and he should continue that role outside. The fools cannot see it.

Drago said...

I am still waiting on Inga to provide the updated refugee deaths from the Libya debacle and complete destabilization of the region resulting in more radical groups controlling vast swaths of Libya and open air Slave Markets being brought back into existence.

At least obama didn't send them $150 Billion in cash for their terrorist purposes.....this time....

hombre said...

Time to pardon General Flynn, restore his pension (if lost) and appoint him to the post. That should cause some Obot sphincters to loosen.

Skeptical Voter said...

Differences of opinion arise; the big dog gets to decide. And the dogs in the media bark, and the big dog (and the caravan) move on.

It is not a sign of incompetence that any Administration decides to let someone go. A long ago NFL defensive player enunciated the eponymous Bubba Smith Theory of Defense. "I just grab an armful and sort out which one has the ball." Considering that on the foreign policy/defense side of the Trump administration (sorting out Tillerson, Mattis, Bolton et al--not to mention Sessions over at Justice, and Comey at the FBI) Trump has adopted the Bubba Smith theory of administration.

And Bubba was a player!

Drago said...

Bolton is a warmongering fascist and a white supremacist who wants to kill brown people!!!

Bolton and Trump are going to get us into a war!!!

OMG Trump won't listen to Bolton anymore!!!

Drago said...

hombre: "Time to pardon General Flynn, restore his pension (if lost) and appoint him to the post. That should cause some Obot sphincters to loosen."


I've been waiting for that.

Most importantly, given his long tenure at the heart of the intel establishment, Flynn knows precisely what all those shadow depts are up to and who is in there.

Flynn's support of a female FBI agents formal complaint against little Andy McCabe is one of several reasons, (desire to be like the Stasi another) that McCabe worked directly with Lynch/Yates to send Strzok after Flynn under the laughable Logan Act "concerns".

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

"I wonder if Trump used his trusty Sharpie to sign Bolton’s dismissal forms. Trump fixed his “mistake” about Alabama in a truly competent way too, eh? Trump has made more “mistakes” than any modern President. As I said, compare his presidency with any other modern US presidency. It would be so refreshing to hear some of you here actually stop making excuses for Trump."

Hmmm, Sharpies vs. the Fate of Nations. No, really, you sound totally rational...

narciso said...

very much so, good grief, now Nixon had Kissinger as vizier, to less than optimum results,

hombre said...

Blogger FrankiM said...

‘“So any administration that fires a cabinet member is incompetent?”

No. Compare Trump Administration with any other, and you’ll get your answer.’

Sure, let’s take Obama and Clinton, Rice, Clapper, Holder and Lynch, for example. Why fire them when you can just ignore their blunders and felonies knowing the leftmedia has your back?

Admirable and competent, in a Democrat sort of way.

FrankiM said...

“Hmmm, Sharpies vs. the Fate of Nations. No, really, you sound totally rational...”

I don’t care about Sharpiegate. I included a reference to it to illustrate how Trump deals with his “mistakes”. If Bolton had gone on the media and backed up Trump’s meeting with the Taliban at Camp David on 9/11, he’d still be employed. Trump demands full loyalty, no matter what.

Michael K said...

Another idiot comment by Inga, Trump expert extraordinaire.

Bolton is a known quantity. Trump is feeling his way with the foreign policy establishment, trying to find a few that are not hacks.

Pompeo is good. Bolton probably too interventionist. State is useless and has been since Truman and Acheson.

The inquiry into the Saudis and 9/11 might involve Bush, which would be a plus for the left to get one more stab at him.

The State Department has been rotten for decades. The Saudis have been buying them for the last 30 years, like Joe Wilson.

The CIA is rotten to the core. The entire Chinese and Iran networks were rolled up due to incompetent security.

eric said...

I like Bolton. I'm sorry to see him go. I think he helped to balance out Trump's impulses in the opposite direction.

Regardless, Trump is the boss and he gets to choose. I hope it's Flynn next.

MBunge said...

"As I said, compare his presidency with any other modern US presidency."


Have you ever heard of this thing called "history?" You might want to look into it. Start with how President George W. Bush turned out to be COMPLETELY WRONG on the primary justification for the invasion of Iraq, which led to hundreds of thousands of deaths, and work backwards from there.

Mike

langford peel said...

President Trump wants to keep us out of endless wars to nation build in shithole countries.

Bolton never saw a country he didn’t want to invade.

It is amazing how this warmongering neocon is now the darling of Inga and the NYT.

God bless President Trump. He is keeping us out of war while trying to extract us from the Quagmire that the Deep State has mired us in the past twenty years.

David Begley said...

Name Mayor Pete. He was in the Army. Rhodes Scholar. Harvard.

Francisco D said...

Bolton is a wartime consigliere. And, while we need such a figure in our domestic affairs, it's time for a Tom Hagen in our foreign policy

Tom tried persuasion first, then forceful persuasion, then you wind up with a horses head in your bed.

Bolton strikes me as the guy who would just blow up the horse if he thought it presented a danger to the US.

Trump needs to listen to both kinds of counselors.

Nonapod said...

I really don't care if Bolten was asked to resign or if Bolten offered to resign first, the final result is the same. I don't really care that much if Trump is lying about asking for his resignation first (I imagine he probably is). I'm more concerned with what happens now.

I'd like us out of Afghanistan. I have nothing against negotiating with the Taliban if that's what's needed. I'm not convinced it was a such great a idea to offer the savages in the Taliban a trip to Camp David. I imagine Trump wanted to flatter them, rolling out the red carpet to put them off gaurd a bit. I have no idea if such a tactic would actually work to our advantage. Who knows? Maybe it would've helped.

But it seems to me that realistically it's highly likely that no matter what, if and when we finally completely pull out of Afghanistan it will most likley fully revert back to Taliban rule relatively quickly. In that regard, it seems that there probably isn't much of a reason for the Taliban to negotiate anything. They just have to wait it out.

David Begley said...

Seriously, I like the General Flynn idea lots.

Trump has someone in mind already.

Drago said...

FrankIngaM: "I included a reference to it to illustrate how Trump deals with his “mistakes”. "

There was not mistake as the NOAA graphics clearly demonstrate from the period of Aug 19 thru Sep 2.

LOL

Nice try though. Not as good as your hoax dossier of course, but then we didn't get to look at that for about 2 years otherwise it would have been debunked just as quickly as your sharpiegate and kavanaugh gang rape lies.

Hagar said...

Previous administrations have told our adversaries across the world what terrible persons they were while continuing to give them goodies to "lure them back to the conference table."
Trump seems to have decided to try the other way around; soft-soaping them in public but not giving them squat until they actually perform.
This may have sown some confusion, but otherwise not much has changed it seems.

mccullough said...

The truth is that Trump just didn't like the mustache.

mccullough said...

Michael Bolton has bad hair and John Bolton has a bad mustache.

FrankiM said...

“Nice try though. Not as good as your hoax dossier of course, but then we didn't get to look at that for about 2 years otherwise it would have been debunked just as quickly as your sharpiegate and kavanaugh gang rape lies.”

Ah this nicely illustrates how Trump defenders continue to defend him. Total disregard for reality.

Nonapod said...

mccullough said...
The truth is that Trump just didn't like the mustache.


That might be the real story here. Trump told Bolton that if he wanted to keep his job he had to shave that mustache. The whole Camp David/Taliban thing is just a smoke screen.

Michael K said...

it seems that there probably isn't much of a reason for the Taliban to negotiate anything. They just have to wait it out.

Yes. The troops should be getting on C 5s and heading out with proper air defense for the departing planes.

I posted somewhere that Flynn, if he gets his plea quashed, should go back to NSC as we badly need his crypto skills.

Laslo Spatula said...

Bolton likes situations that require Old School War to successfully accomplish.

Old School War = fuck global opinion, don't fuss over collateral damage, destroy the enemy, keep nukes on the table.

We no longer will fight a war that way.

A 'Bolton' only functions when people believe you might go Old School.

And: Bolton only functions when people believe you might go Old School.

Old dog, old teeth.

I am Laslo.

Michael K said...

Total disregard for reality.

Says the crazy that is still convinced the walls are closing in.

Bay Area Guy said...

Bolton is an honorable man, with an important policy position, who's voice deserves a seat at the table. However, if you go through life as a hammer, most everything begins to look like a nail. On foreign policy, Bolton is a hammer. He'd probably invade EVERY middle-eastern country, if you let him.

Trump doesn't share this view. Trump's view trumps Bolton's view, both as a matter of Constitutional authority and as a matter of common sense. My informal uninformed opinion is that American folks are very skeptical about future foreign interventions. Too much baggage from the Gulf War 2, Afghanistan, and Syria.

As always, I could be wrong.

Original Mike said...

"Total disregard for reality."

Did Trump collude with Russia?

bagoh20 said...

I assume it was supposed to be a good cop / bad cop situation, but the bad cop was scaring people, but isn't that the idea.

Quaestor said...

But it seems to me that realistically it's highly likely that no matter what, if and when we finally completely pull out of Afghanistan it will most [likely] fully revert back to Taliban rule relatively quickly.

You're a bit behind the curve, Nanapod. Politicized Islam is waning rather than waxing. The Taliban will discover a fundamental truth.

Yancey Ward said...

Bolton is a neo-con who should never have been brought into the administration, but I am sure he was strongly suggested by your typical Republican elites that you find at places like The Bulwark and National Review. Good riddance.

Bay Area Guy said...

Addendum:

As for keeping troops in these middle eastern Hot zones, my informal uninformed opinion is that most Americans would like them to come home. It's been too long.

My concern, though, is what fills the vacuum, when we leave. We kept troops in South Korea for decades, and that provided some well-need stability.

Quaestor said...

Inga (aka FrankiM) writes: Ah this nicely illustrates how Trump defenders continue to defend him.

It takes a certain kind of brain to compose a sentence like that one.

The Minnow Wrangler said...

If the US were in an actual war for survival, like WWII, Bolton would be a good person to have in the administration.

Trump seems to want to minimize military conflict as much as possible. Perhaps he actually sees some value in the lives of our soldiers! What a novel idea.

I dislike our current approach to waging war (targeted assassinations, drone strikes, etc.). If we face some kind of existential threat, screw the lawyers, kill everyone, man, woman and child, and deal with the media later. Otherwise stay the hell out of those places and use whatever diplomatic carrots and sticks are available.

Chuck said...

From what I saw of Bolton on tv, I liked him.

Now, I am especially looking forward to the untethered-from-Trump Bolton.

Should be a can’t miss National Security Edition of “Hannity!”!

Nonapod said...

Quaestor said...
You're a bit behind the curve, Nanapod. Politicized Islam is waning rather than waxing. The Taliban will discover a fundamental truth.


I hope you're right. I honestly don't know enough about the people of Afghanistan, their mindsets, their sympathies, if a clear majority of them have a real desire for Western style freedoms over a traditional theocratic rule system. What I've read about these things over the years isn't always clear.

All I know is that we've been in Afghanistan for almost 2 decades and the Taliban is evidently still of enough significance that it's worth our while to negotiate with them.

Ralph L said...

I suppose we have to hope the Chinese become overextended in Asia and Africa as the Soviets did, but the Chinese are much more industrious.

Sebastian said...

"To his admirers, Mr. Bolton was supposed to be a check on what they feared would be naïve diplomacy, a cleareyed realist who would keep a president without prior experience in foreign affairs from giving away the store to wily adversaries."

This is probably the most positive sentence ever written about Bolton in the NYT. I wonder why.

Anyway, what Bolton thinks, and in a way even what Trump thinks, is irrelevant: the American people have no stomach now for Boltonian solutions. That also means Iran and NK can play us to some extent: they know that, even with Trump's bluster and sanctions in place, we won't do much more.

But I suspect the immediate trigger for the firing was Afghanistan: a good sign, since it probably means Trump really does want to get out, in spite of calling off the peace brokering.

Laslo Spatula said...

The Minnow Wrangler @ 1:07 --

Pretty much what I was trying to say in my 12:52 comment.

If it is a war we can walk away from -- i.e., not an existentialist threat -- then maybe we shouldn't pursue it in the first place.

And -- if five years go by and you haven't decisively won -- then you're A) not doing everything you can do to win, or B) you're not capable of winning. Which means you are treating soldiers like so many books of matches.

Much of modern war is conducted as if we can safely split Solomon's baby, if we are just careful enough.

To take that a step further: you gotta treat the enemy like a 9-month fetus at a Planned parenthood clinic: no mercy.

I am Laslo.

mtrobertslaw said...

Bolton, with his bizarre eyebrows and mustache, looks like a guy sent up from central casting to play the part of psychotic madman who believes he is a genius. He should be fired for that reason alone.

FullMoon said...

The Taliban cannot be trusted.
On the other hand, looking at things from their point of view, the United States liable to change with each new election.

I think it is time to extend Trumps reign to at least three terms, so the rest of the world can rest assured that the deals the United States makes now will not be thrown out with some juvenile Democrat administration.

M Jordan said...

Bolton should’ve kept his mouth shut about the firing/quitting process. It shows why he needed to go. My bet is he’s about to become Anthony Scaramucci.

Amadeus 48 said...

Bring back Bolton. Let me sleep at night.
Bolton was Clarence Thomas’s best friend at Yale LawSchool.

Quaestor said...

My concern, though, is what fills the vacuum, when we leave.

Power vacuums, a geopolitical preoccupation with its roots in the Congress of Vienna. Worrying about "power vacuums" left by the fall of Imperial France created the Europe which imploded so catastrophically in the 1914-1945 war. They say Nature abhors a vacuum, yet the Universe is more or less a Big Nothing with tiny bits of Something scattered here and there. Afghanistan is overdue for a bit of benign neglect.

The Minnow Wrangler said...

Geez Fen get your own blog. Why should Althouse put up with you calling her a bitch?

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

Qwinn said...
Not one person here thinks your continuing this is a good idea, except the Lefties who want to see you perma-banned.


As a moderate I, of course, do not want to see Fen 'banned', but can I make a suggestion?

Maybe Althouse could set aside some posts specifically for people like Fen. This policy might be called apartiq (/əˈpa:tike/). In these special posts special people, like Fen, could rant and insult people freely in an uninhibited manner. In return, they would be excluded from a subset of the other posts where efforts would be made to have a sensible and constructive dialog. Just a suggestion.

JohnAnnArbor said...

It's really weird how crazy people get on the internet.....

Bilwick said...

As a writer from THE FEDERALIST quoted on Instapundit day said today, the narrative will now switch: “Press is about to go from ‘John Bolton is a radical warmonger who never should be permitted near the Oval Office’ to ‘This is a story of how a reasonable, respected expert was dismissed by a chaotic, megalomaniacal Administration, and whatever his critique is, we agree!’”

john said...

Is this a signal that Trump is looking for my vote?

Will the msm give Bolton the McCain makeover? That signal might be Bolton next appearing without his mustache.

mockturtle said...


If it is a war we can walk away from -- i.e., not an existentialist threat -- then maybe we shouldn't pursue it in the first place.

And -- if five years go by and you haven't decisively won -- then you're A) not doing everything you can do to win, or B) you're not capable of winning. Which means you are treating soldiers like so many books of matches.

Much of modern war is conducted as if we can safely split Solomon's baby, if we are just careful enough.


Brilliant, Laslo! Never heard it explained more concisely, more accurately or with more aplomb. Laslo for new National Security Advisor!!

Original Mike said...

Well, I'm glad to see ARM isn't dead.

FullMoon said...

Fen needs to cool down,

Yes. I agree.

But I am tired of being the one who compromises and gives in to Althouse for the greater good. It's her turn now, been so for some time. Watch her and see her true character...


Yeah, thing is, Aa and Meade go out and do stuff, then check the comments. Other regulars gotta scroll past you now and it bugs them. No doubt especially the ones using a phone..

You just annoying them off now.

Earnest Prole said...

Grown men should endeavor to be less excitable than little girls.

doctrev said...

I'm surprised a lawyer can't come to a reasonable compromise that Fen might accept. As it is, she's incredibly angry and will not tire of spam posting before Althouse tires of having comments open at all. Most people here are somewhere between disinterested and actively hostile to Fen, but Fen obviously doesn't care about that, and pointing it out only fires her up. Of course, Fen realizing that people cannot actually be "banned" and that trolls routinely dump on Althouse commenters makes her that much more enthusiastic about testing the electric fence.

I only bring this up because crazy trolling behavior has broader implications for American society. When enough people "go crazy," gas chambers, lynchings, and bloody civil wars become reality. The button-down middle-class white American is capable of truly insane savagery, and there is a reason so many Africans would rather have been their chattel slaves than feel the full force of that anger. Maybe Althouse can outlast Fen, but I frankly doubt it. If blog comments are only sporadically moderated, they'll be quite vulnerable to bad behavior. Pay your money and take yer choice, as they say.

rhhardin said...

Every polynomial has a complete set of roots, if you extend the real numbers into imaginary space. Boulton was a real space guy.

Hagar said...

Not much could be expected from "negotiating" with the Taliban but a promise not to shoot while our forces withdrew and these 11th century tribal warlords could not even guarantee that as showed by the attack in Kabul.
So, what is next?

Laslo Spatula said...

"Grown men should endeavor to be less excitable than little girls."

I read that wrong, thank goodness.

I am Laslo.

mockturtle said...

Guess I'll return when the temper tantrum is over. Too hard to read posts right now. Besides, my daughter is taking me to lunch.

john said...

You're fired.

You can't fire me, I already quit.

No, I fired you in my 2AM tweet. You should have been up.

No, I offered to resign 6 hours earlier, you chose to ignore it.

I'm president.

Quaestor said...

What I've read about these things over the years isn't always clear.

Between the end of the British Raj in India and the Russian adventurism of the 1970s, Afghanistan was close to nonexistent in terms of Western consciousness. On their own, without foreign intervention, they achieved something akin to domestic order. Perhaps the Afghans are doomed to Islamic dictatorship and oppression, but perhaps not.

Calypso Facto said...

Wars started by Pres. Obama/NSA Rice: 4. Wars started by Pres. Trump/NSA Bolton: 0
Hopefully that track record continues.

I think having Bolton on the team was like having a mean dog chained up in the front yard: No one likes it, but it does make ne'er-do-wells think twice.

rhhardin said...

Imus on living with his first wife and two daughters, "There wasn't any time of the month when somebody wasn't crying and slamming the doors."

pacwest said...

"As I said, compare his presidency with any other modern US presidency."

Obama of course would be the hands down winner in this regard if you consider proven significant "mistakes" as ones regarding policy. If you are only considering line of succession appointments Trump holds a slight lead over Reagan and Bush1 thru year 3 (per Brookings). Not sure what you are considering a "mistake". Could you provide numbers along with a better definition of what you consider a "mistake"? If we all get to make up the definition of "mistake" the list could get partisanly endless.

Robert Cook said...

Bravo to Mr. Trump for firing John Bolton! I unreservedly support this action by the President!

minnesota farm guy said...

There are many of us who wish that Lyndon Johnson had the guts to fire the entire "best and brightest" brigade that Kennedy bequeathed him. If he had our VN casualty figures might've been in the low thousands instead of the 58,000 it was.

The chief executive's job is to evaluate the performance of his subordinates and take corrective action as needed. Trump does that better than any other recent President.

Howard said...

I always knew Bolton was a cuck. Trump is a genius.

readering said...

What's a cuck?

Meade said...

Getting fired can hurt. Perhaps John Bolton can take solace in the wisdom of Venus Williams who said: "Grand Slam losses are hard. I treat myself after losses though, I usually go to McDonald's and I have a hamburger and you know, something. Because you know, you just need to be nice to yourself sometimes after the loss."

Also, Bolton is now free to audition for the lead role in the next Captain Kangaroo biopic. One door closes, another door opens.

JPS said...

Original Mike, 1:33:

"Well, I'm glad to see ARM isn't dead."

Yeah, me too.

readering,

If you don't know, consider yourself lucky. Most tired and tiresome meme on the right, and that's going some.

JPS said...

FrankiM,

"I’ve never seen any female here get so hysterical."

I don't know - we used to have this commenter here, right before you showed up: Inga? Anyway....

FrankiM said...

There must’ve been something Trump liked about cuck Bolton to begin with. Or did he think Bolton would fall in line like the rest of the cucks? I think Bolton thought he could control Trump and vice versa, both were wrong. That doesn’t inspire confidence in President or NSA.

Daniel said...

Fen is a self important asshole who should get a grip on his emotions. What the fuck is wrong with you man? You’ve made a comprehensive fool of yourself now and exposed all of your prior preening as cool character to be bullshit of the highest order. Your act was always pretty transparent anyway.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

Inga likes the can-can line of sycophants that decorate the democratic party.
Nothing happened with Iran or NoKo during Obama, except deterioration and more nuclear apparatus in the hands of evil regimes.

Trump isn't able to fix it like the super-hero democrats would. The same democrats who are gunning for the US economy.

You know how many rare earth minerals are required to build a single solar panel, or a battery?

No worries - ban fracking!

Meade said...

Original Mike said...
"Well, I'm glad to see ARM isn't dead."

Yeah. Whenever a regular commenter goes silent, I just assume he's doing time in prison. If we then begin seeing comments from him again, I'm like, "YAY—He broke out!"

JohnAnnArbor said...

Also, Bolton is now free to audition for the lead role in the next Captain Kangaroo biopic.

Some of us remember Protein Wisdom, a blog whose proprietor imagined John Bolton's mustache as a sentient being named Regis who'd single-handedly run around the UN building slapping the representatives of America's enemies (this was back when Bolton was UN ambassador).

It was MUCH funnier the way he wrote it.

minnesota farm guy said...

This is a situation where blame should not be assigned to either party. Trump gave Bolton an audition knowing full well Bolton's positions and history. Bolton had the fortitude to be consistent with his history. Trump decided that there was just too much static. Either, or both, had the good sense - and courage - to call a halt to a situation that could only become more painful and counter productive.

donald said...

❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

I don’t despise Bolton like I do the rest of em, but I also don’t want anybody like him
Near our foreign policy again.

Pull everybody out. Raze and destroy everything we built or have there that we can’t get out, then drop a nuclear weapon on whatever shithole is their biggest population center at this time.

Just in case anybody thinks I’m some Kinda peacenik or sumpin.

Michael said...

Bolton is calling Trump a liar and saying he quit and wasn't fired as claimed. Either way, John, you don't work there any more. Funny you didn't quit sooner as principled as you are.

Char Char Binks, Esq. said...

This thread needs more Fen.

Bay Area Guy said...

The mainstream media likes to find any kernel of tension, and blow it up out of proportion to helps their agenda to spread negative stories about Trump. Any fool can see this.

Returning to politics: If you are a political appointee in the Executive Branch, you work at the leisure of the President. You can argue, cajole and recommend all you want. But at the end of the day, he decides. And, if you're not on board with the executive decision, then just shut up and quietly resign.

Mattis did this quite well. And I love Mattis, and wish he wouda stayed.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

I hope Fen didn't get himself banned.

BA-Guy

The mainstream media likes to find any kernel of tension, and blow it up out of proportion to help their agenda to spread negative stories about Trump. Any fool can see this.

It's sad that the MSM is so tainted. The trust is gone.

Narr said...

If you don't know what "cuck" is then try an image search on that term; the BBC has good coverage. Sorry I just can't master the linky-linky thingy.

Narr
What is the sound of one hand fapping?

readering said...

Love the way folks try to provide rational analysis for today's dumpster fire.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

Cuck: a man whose wife is sexually unfaithful.

Genius analysis from the left.

Drago said...

readering: "Love the way folks try to provide rational analysis for today's dumpster fire."

Libya with its refugees flooding into Europe and refugees dying by the hundreds at sea and now open air Slave Markets in Libya after obama and Biden and Hillary toppled the regime that was literally cooperating with us to reduce nuclear proliferation is a dumpster fire.

This is a simple staff change.

Try and get a grip on yourself.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

BleachBit-and-Hammers said...

FUCK YOU INGA


Obviously everyone feels under pressure in the middle of the ongoing cuckopalypse and people act out in different ways.

Maybe this could be our first apartiq (/əˈpa:tike/) thread? Fen and April can let loose with impunity. In return, they would self-deport themselves from a subset of subsequent posts.

Drago said...

Meade: "Yeah. Whenever a regular commenter goes silent, I just assume he's doing time in prison. If we then begin seeing comments from him again, I'm like, "YAY—He broke out!"

If the commenter is a violent convicted illegal alien and/or violent murderer in Massachusetts, they might just be commenting while on a weekend furlough...before murdering someone new.

Drago said...

Calypso Facto: "Wars started by Pres. Obama/NSA Rice: 4. Wars started by Pres. Trump/NSA Bolton: 0
Hopefully that track record continues."

This is apparently what is upsetting all the lefties.

But then again, consistency was never really their "thing", was it?

Drago said...

"Total disregard for reality."

Original Mike: "Did Trump collude with Russia?"

This really ought to be a question the lefties/LLR's ought to answer so that we might gauge the degree to which they've gone round the bend.

We already know Inga's answer is "yes", which means FrankIngaM's answer is also "yes". We also know that readering believes Trump colluded too.

I am betting those characters also believe the hoax dossier is essentially "true" as well.

But what of ARM?

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...

Every day is a manufactured dumpster fire. every day. How does Trump do it? Amazing.

Bolton is gone. Were any of you leftists fans of Bolton? NO. Not that you'd understand him or his job. You do not. You hate Trump and anyone Trump would hire. So the idea that you are concerned is laughable.
Most leftists here are Debra Messing types.

Except Robert Cook. I have respect for Cook.

Beasts of England said...

I had a very nice boat ride and maybe a beer or three. Did I miss anything exciting?

langford peel said...

It looks like Althouse fired Fen but he insists he resigned.

langford peel said...

It makes you long for the good old days of the reasoned discourse of Luckyoldson and Titus.

iowan2 said...

Not really looking forward to moderation. We can thank fen for shitting in the pool and closing it down.

Spiros said...

Good riddance.

Qwinn said...

Congratulations on making it completely impossible to support you, Fen.

I am now hoping you get banned.

I'm Full of Soup said...

I'd love to see a raw headcount of Exec ofc Bldg employees and Cabinet Dept employees under Trump vs the last 4-5 presidents. Trump has to have reduced the number by a significant number.

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

Reminiscent of nothing so much as ARM's epic Drago-driven nervous breakdown. Ah, well. it's our shared memories that build community.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

I was anticipating something like this would happen. The cognitive dissonance has become too great to sustain the matrix. Fen is just the first of what will be many cases. The Great Trump Awakening is now upon us.

Earnest Prole said...

Imus on living with his first wife and two daughters, "There wasn't any time of the month when somebody wasn't crying and slamming the doors."

Fenstruation is hard on us all.

Bay Area Guy said...

Well, we've reached either peak madness or peak stupidity. Hopefully, it's just a really bad day, nothing more.

FullMoon said...

Actually, Fen is providing a pretty good lesson.
This is what has happened to people who have been doxxed, fired, harassed and vandalized by the left.

While a minor inconvenience here, it can be a a life changing situation in the real world.

Pretty sure way, way back Inga was outed by one or more of the regular Wisconsin commenters who did some minor detective work.Understandably Very upsetting for her.

did not stop her from jumping on to one of the woman commenters here who inadvertently used her real name work email to post a reply to a comment.



bagoh20 said...

I like it. It's different.

Michael K said...

News for Trump haters. Remember all that talk about corruption in Puerto Rico after Maria ?

And how you lefties ridiculed Trump about his accusations ?

Well the FBI arrested a couple of people today. Big time corruption.

Narr said...

Words are neat. "Fen" is out of OE, cognate with Icelandic 'fen' quagmire, Gothic "fani' mud,
Dutch 'ven,' and German "Fenn" fen, bog.

Narr
Irenic Onomastist

narciso said...

I was just about to note, that, michael k, I'm sure john henry isn't terribly surprised,

this is why the blacklist and even blindspot got the spirit of the times,

Iman said...

Out: Bolton never met a war he didn’t like.

In: Bolton is woke as “F”!

narciso said...


yes, it's very suspicious:

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/10/what-is-really-behind-the-deluge-of-leaks-about-the-extradited-spy/

Michael K said...

A good bit from Ace.

I was just talking with a pro-Trump reporter this weekend, and we were discussing Trump's staffing problems. He pointed out that people just don't think of how tiny a number of people Trump had when he came into office, and most of those were supporters with no experience in any subject-matter area or government bureaucracy.

As opposed to the armies of longtime government workers that were loyal to the Bushes (out of ideological reasons or just because they know the Bushes are always good for a paycheck) or to Hillary, who used "charity" funds to keep her Government In Waiting paid and on the team.

Trump just doesn't have that many people to pick from.

This problem has plagued Trump since day one. Not having enough of a government-in-waiting to man so much as an FBI field office, he had to rely heavily on Establishment GOP and NeverTrumpers to serve as his top staffers, and those people then got to pick the next level of staffers and the levels after that.

These people made sure that their people -- GOPe people, NeverTrump people -- got in to the Trump Administration, and that the few conservatives with government experience or subject-matter expertise who were actually Trumpites were kept out.

I know a guy who had a great deal of experience in diplomacy and was a day one Trump supporter. And I mean a public supporter; he put his name to it.

He was literally told, "That's going to count against you" when he sought a State Department posting under Trump, the man he had publicly supported.

And in fact it did; he was given the runaround in his interview process until anti-Trump forces could fill the job that Trump wanted him to have with an anti-Trumper.

So Trump doesn't have a lot of people he can call upon to serve, and a lot of the people who he could call upon have already been frozen out by the anti-Trump political staffers he put in place because he had few other options.

That means that any time he treats a departing staffer poorly, he scares off some of the few people willing to work for him.

When you barely have anyone loyal to you, you can't afford to alienate people over egotistical huffs.


Pretty good comment and I agree. I think he should have let Bolton resign and keep contact.

Drago said...

FrankIngaM: "Indeed they are, don’t you feel it?"

I'm not in the habit of "feeling" things that don't exist.

For instance, right after the election when the entirety of the dems/left/LLR-left told us Trump would crash the economy, I didn't fall for it.

In another case, when the entirety of the dems/left/LLR-left told us that Trump would start war after war after war I didn't fall for it.

In another case, when the entirety of the dems/left/LLR-left told us that Trump had colluded with Russia and Putin stole the election by spending $100k on facebook ads and that there existed a video tape of hookers in Moscow peeing on a bed at Trump's direction, I didn't fall for it.

In another case, when the entirety of the dems/left/LLR-left told us that Brett Kavanaugh led a rape gang for over a decade in Maryland I didn't fall for it.

Stuff like that.

Seeing Red said...

Breaking: FBI Arrests Top FEMA Administrator, Two Others For Hurricane Maria Relief Fraud

FullMoon said...

If moderation is on why is Althouse posting Inga's comments? Is she refusing to admit it's Inga?

The subterfuge serves to embolden Inga.
The ban may have been a bit of an over reaction. Kinda like when you ground your kid for a month in the heat of the moment then let them off a week later.

Best thing is ground them for a few days. You can add more later if need be.

Thinking about it, maybe old school getting beat with the belt or slapped upside the head immediately was best way. Immediate feedback.

Asked my brother, "Why do you do that when you know you are going to get caught and get your ass beat?"

"It Only hurts for a little while"

Me? I put more thought and effort into not getting caught.

Michael K said...

FrankiM said...
Next troll to be dumped, Full Moon.


Says the troll who has already been dumped a couple of times and plays the bad penny routine.

Titus said...

What do you guys think of men and the short pants look? The streets are littered with that look. I think it looks really really gay and feminine. I bet John Bolton doesn’t wear short pants.

Seeing Red said...

Breaking: FBI Arrests Top FEMA Administrator, Two Others For Hurricane Maria Relief Fraud

Big Mike said...

Yeah. Whenever a regular commenter goes silent, I just assume he's doing time in prison. If we then begin seeing comments from him again, I'm like, "YAY—He broke out!"

@Meade, almost right. I was on vacation in Alaska.

narciso said...

who stands against us:

https://babalublog.com/2019/09/10/cuba-welcomes-eu-with-100-arrests-of-peaceful-dissidents-eus-response-to-castro-regime-we-support-you/

FullMoon said...

Inga said... [hush]​[hide comment]

“The FBI/DOJ was spying on every member of the Trump campaign. Including Trump.”

For good cause. We don’t need Russian assets in seats of power in our American government.
2018

Titus said...

What do you guys think of men wearing short pants. I think it looks gay and feminine. The streets are littered with the look. I bet John Bolton doesn’t wear short pants.

Tits an abs

FullMoon said...

Does Franki agree?

"Inga said
And you people own putting Putin’s puppet in Office. When this is all said and done you Trumpists and Republicans won’t be able to live this down for decades. "

Balfegor said...

I like Bolton, but he needs a bit of balancing. I think the good-cop bad-cop routine was useful, since it reminded our enemies that the President was always going to hear from someone willing to argue the military force option, but I guess the President must have got tired of hearing about how he's too soft on everyone.

Meade said...

"I was on vacation in Alaska."

The toughest prisons to bust out of are the ones you make for yourself. — Meade's Law

Drago said...

FullMoon: "Does Franki agree?"

It would be schizophrenic of her not to.

Drago said...

Titus: "What do you guys think of men wearing short pants."

I'll let you know in January.

Greg Hlatky said...

What do you guys think of men wearing short pants.

I think HR people are utter filth.

FullMoon said...



.Inga said

Stop and think how ridiculous you've become. I'm

fine with becoming persona non grata. Your blog has

become the cesspool it once was. I'm pretty much

done here. 2017,


But MacAarthur like, I shall return!

narciso said...

a corrective view,


https://twitter.com/BillGertz/status/1171247867962388480

Michael K said...

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/10/what-is-really-behind-the-deluge-of-leaks-about-the-extradited-spy/

I think the theory that this is battlefield prep for the indictments we know are coming is correct. Also the Mueller team in now threatening Flynn with more jail time if he pursues the prosecutor malfeasance.

Roughcoat said...

The toughest prisons to bust out of are the ones you make for yourself.

Oh, wow.

Big Mike said...

@Meade, I shall ponder the wisdom of what you’ve written.

Meade said...

"Oh, wow."

Farm out, huh?

Original Mike said...

Outta state!

Roughcoat said...

Psycho-delicatessen!

Michael K said...

More, a lot more, on the "spy" story floating around.

He was the "Russian agent" who had the goods on Trump, until the story fell apart.

Meade said...

"I shall ponder the wisdom of what you’ve written."

There is wise up or not wise up. There is no shall ponder. — Meade's Other Law

Narayanan said...

,,, I bet John Bolton doesn’t wear short pants ,,

He will look great in shorts with moustache spelling !!WAR!!

Drago said...

"The toughest prisons to bust out of are the ones you make for yourself. — Meade's Law"

Depends on whether or not someone has smuggled in a rhetorical shiv.

Narayanan said...

,,, I bet John Bolton doesn’t wear short pants ,,

He will look great in shorts with moustache spelling !!WAR!!

Roughcoat said...

Invade, or invade not. There is no reconnaissance.

Big Mike said...

@Meade, I wrote it on a sheet of toilet paper. Then used that sheet.

narciso said...

what I suspected, got a virus alert on that page, so why did they need steele if they had penkovsky or gordievsky, 2.0, because they didn't, they had some schlub, not a character out of 'red sparrow' like the real poteyev, which apparently buzzfeed outed last august, thanks a lot guys, can you let me pick my burial tuxedo,

Drago said...

Michael K: "He was the "Russian agent" who had the goods on Trump, until the story fell apart."

Anyone else notice how the lefties/LLR-lefties Russian lies collapse in ever increasing rapidity?

Not that FrankIngaM, ARM, readering, Uhr, LLR (he who shall not be named) will allow the serial collapse of these hundreds of Crossfire Hurricane lies to impact the next lies coming down the pike.

The lefties/LLR-lefties are literally batting .000 over the last 3 years in their russian delusions but they still believe in every one of the lies.

I'll bet FrankIngaM still has the edited video of Trump dumping his fish food in the manner that Abe demonstrated and thinks it shows Trumps criminality!!

The Fish Food Walls Are Closing In! Can't you just feel it?

effinayright said...

Has Fen actually been de-fenestrated?

narciso said...

who does buzzfeed work for,


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/alexcampbell/alexander-poteyev-cia-vladimir-putin-russian-spy-undercover

Ann Althouse said...

Little did John Bolton know... his downfall would lead to all this crazy talk...

narciso said...

its sad when people go Tasmanian devil,

The Minnow Wrangler said...

Laslo: There is always "Option C" - you don't really want to win. You just want to keep spending money & getting more stuff for the military whether or not you actually need it. And political support too. It's apparently wrong to criticize a president when the nation is at war.

Bye Fen.

Francisco D said...

The Great Trump Awakening is now upon us.

Is that when the Left admits that Trump has been a pretty good POTUS despite the drama and the false narratives?

That usually happens when a Republican POTUS passes away.

Spiros said...

Donald Trump gets cost-benefit analysis. John Bolton doesn't. The cost of going to war with North Korea, Iran and Syria easily outweigh the benefits.

Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...

We should probably run a book on who will be the next victim of the Great Trump Awakening.

Who will deny Him three times before the cock crows, or, in this case, before he becomes a one term president. If only the Bush family were here to give testimony for they would proclaim,

"Go tell it on the mountain
Over the hills and everywhere
Go tell it on the mountain
Our Donald Trump likes porn
(stars)."

Bay Area Guy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael K said...

We should probably run a book on who will be the next victim of the Great Trump Awakening.

You or Inga ? 50/50

Big Mike said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Big Mike said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Big Mike said...

Bolton became expendable when it became clear that Judge Sullivan is going to be forced to drop the charges against Michael Flynn due to extreme prosecutorial misconduct. This clears the way for Flynn, who after all had been Trump’s first choice, to be nominated for NSA.

Bay Area Guy said...

"We should probably run a book on who will be the next victim of the Great Trump Awakening."

Heh! Funny. And those who dish it out, ought to be able to take it.

The trouble though (for ARM) is that Trump will be challenged by a real, live, human being (Biden, Warren or Sanders), not an abstraction. And, well, once the fighters get into the ring, a lot of the pre-game chatter tends to fade away.......

Michael K said...

Donald Trump gets cost-benefit analysis. John Bolton doesn't.

As I posted at neo, who doesn't have trolls. I wish Trump had restrained himself in the who fired/quit war so they could stay in contact.

Trump seems to like differing opinions, unlike so many swamp dwellers, but needs to keep them in contact.

They are probably very unused to that, so it might be difficult.

Michael K said...

Bolton became expendable when it became clear that Judge Sullivan is going to be forced to drop the charges against Michael Flynn due to extreme prosecutorial misconduct.

Not a bad point. We need Flynn because the cyber stuff we have been losing is right in his wheelhouse.

Where is Rogers when all this is going on ?

FullMoon said...

"Our Donald Trump likes porn(stars)."
Is that unusual ?





narciso said...

well bannon was impatient on the tariff question, and he chose poorly in confiding in Michael wolff, but he seems to be still on the nationalist front, bossie and levandowski seem to be in contact, scaramucci I guess is trying too hard to get hna to buy skybridge, that's why he and omarosa are badmouthing him in Australia,

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...

"What do you guys think of men and the short pants look? The streets are littered with that look. I think it looks really really gay and feminine"

You mean the male Capri thing? Guh-Yaaaay! And, no, the beard doesn't make it any less so.

narciso said...

and across the pond:


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/10/irish-backstop-could-boris-johnson-have-answer-solve-brexit/

FrankiM said...

“Little did John Bolton know... his downfall would lead to all this crazy talk...”

I blame it on the mustache.

Michael K said...

Our Donald Trump likes porn
(stars)."


He agrees to have his photo taken with one. Fully clothed.

The lefties all do hysterical over one failed blackmailer and vote for Clinton, rapist.

Drago said...

ARM: "Our Donald Trump likes porn"

There is no evidence that is true.

There is irrefutable evidence Bill Clinton "enjoyed cigars"....

There is solid evidence JFK liked ordering White House interns to service (in the Bill Clinton sense) Secret Service Agents.

Oh, right, JFK also slept around with the mafia molls of Sam Giancana....but in a good way....

Drago said...

ARM: "We should probably run a book on who will be the next victim of the Great Trump Awakening."

Anyone who wants to work for Trump and believes its still 2015 would be a good guess.

Drago said...

Remember way back when the lefties/dems used to just lie about plastic turkeys and secret SR-71 flights to Paris and whether or not the commies murdered 100 million in the 20th century?

Good times, good times.

readering said...

Sen. Graham gave an interviewer 3 names for NSA replacement: Pence NSA Keith Kellogg, State Dept Iran envoy Brian Hook and former Deputy NSA Rick Waddell (left when Bolton arrived). "Those are the names the president mentioned to me."

Drago said...

I do find it interesting that both the NYT and the Bezos Bee (WP) immediately debunked Jim Sciuttos lies regarding the low level russian flunky that Brennan/Clapper/Comey pretended was a high ranking "close to Putin" asset.

Sciutto put out the lie that exfiltrating this cat, who apparently lives in VA under his own name (LOL!!) was due to CIA concerns about Trump.

The problem? Both the NYT AND the Bezos Bee had long ago written about this "asset" (low level flunky) years ago and this cat was tapped for exfiltration un 2016!!

Too too funny.

Another CNN lie so blatant that the other lefties said whoa little buckaroo, we cant have that!!

This is another of those hoaxes that causes FrankIngaM to chant The Walls Are Closing In!!eleventy!11!1!!

Cant you just feel it?

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