"... when they refused his advances, numerous accusers told The Associated Press.... Eight singers and a dancer have told the AP that they were sexually harassed by the long-married, Spanish-born superstar in encounters that took place over three decades beginning in the late 1980s, at venues that included opera companies where he held top managerial positions.... In addition to the nine accusers, a half-dozen other women told the AP that suggestive overtures by Domingo made them uncomfortable.... The AP also spoke to almost three dozen other singers, dancers, orchestra musicians, members of backstage staff, voice teachers and an administrator who said they witnessed inappropriate sexually tinged behavior by Domingo and that he pursued younger women with impunity. Domingo did not respond to detailed questions from the AP about specific incidents, but issued a statement saying: 'The allegations from these unnamed individuals dating back as many as thirty years are deeply troubling, and as presented, inaccurate.'"
AP reports.
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98 comments:
“Dangling”
It's another moral truth that was discovered by women. Take it as nagging.
suggestive overtures by Domingo made them uncomfortable
He's more of an arias man.
This kind of crap has been going on for as long as there have been men and women. Almost every woman of my generation has had to deal with this behavior. So what?
The same shit happens in the gay community. Big deal.
Why all the uproar now?
Splooges are gonna splooge and now we have wymen trying to turn them all into soy-boys. Then they will complain that no one is hitting on them.
Who’s next? Fredo?
I always called him Flacido... perhaps that's why he has to scam women for their attention
More of an arias man...nice one!
There is an easy solution to this problem.
On the first day of work, each new employee goes around the office and tells everyone whether or not they’re sexually attracted to them.
HR can note the responses in a little black book.
It’s like immediately swiping left or right on your co-workers.
If it helps, I think that’s how the Scandinavians do it.
Did he mention rich Corinthian leather?
That's the criminal threshold.
There are LOTS of qualifying language in this "reportage". The, MeToo, movement is looking for another scalp of a powerful male.
Tell me again why young males are feeling so threatened, they go on murderess sprees.
I wonder why the delay?
Nice gossip attack.
Let's interview everybody who's ever crossed your path and see if we can find some dirt.
Singing with another person, particularly one of the opposite sex (if you're straight), is an extremely, inherently sensual, erotic activity.
That's one of the things that makes it so great.
Bird sing when they search for a mate, dumb humans.
Do I have to remind a retired law professor that an allegation is not a proof?
OMG 6 WOMEN FELT UNCOMFORTABLE. GOD FORBID!!
These articles would be more compelling if they explained the success rate for a guy like Domingo.
“While just 9 women rejected his offers over thirty years, 3,862 agreed it was a good deal for them too and submitted, some enthusiastically, some as more of a quid pro quo.”
That’s what’s really going on here, right? Nobody wants to talk about how often it works.
he pursued younger women with impunity
The horror!
Don Giovanni is a baritone role, but lately he's been singing those (possibly because most are smaller parts).
Am I supposed to be shocked?
More about wealth redistribution than outrage over sexual behavior?
What's next... ?
Lawsuits by porn actresses against their male co-stars for having a hard-on?
Knowing the latin culture; I'm not surprised. I will say that if any of the people were named, it is doubtful anyone would recognize them. People went to go see Placido Domingo, not the dancer or musician. And they went to hear him sing usually very romantic music.
We shouldn't excuse boorish behaviour, but it should be acknowledged that many sought an emotion from hearing Placido Domingo that others are now complaining. I think these claims are prudish.
Knowing the latin culture...
This is about the theater, which is the same everywhere.
Every night actors and sings climb on stage and play out love affairs with one another. That's the sum total of it all.
Sometimes people fall for their co-stars. Sometimes they are deluded into feeling that they've fallen for their co-stars.
This attack on the very essence of theater, acting and singing is insane and evil.
I'm surprised at the pushback in most of the comments here (written at 7:30 CDT). It is wrong for a person who holds power over another person (in terms of who gets hired, or promoted, or given better parts, or given better recommendations) to ask for sexual favors or to initiate sexual contact to initiate behavior (flirting or dating) that might lead to sexual contact. It's wrong even if the powerful person is not found guilty of a crime in a court. When (as a situation like this) the behavior is experienced or observed by many people who tell consistent stories, I think the burden of proof shifts to accused (in the court of public of opinion).
This cannot be true. Placido is an artist and art is special and wonderful.
Alternatively,
So what that this is true. Placido brings us art and art is special and wonderful.
"...and as presented, inaccurate."
Those accusations must be highly inaccurate to leave Domingo morally unscathed. However, many of the women who so far come forward to level accusations at celebrities have not distinguished themselves as paragons of truthfulness, have they? #MeToo has a credibility problem, which is unfortunate for genuine victims of sexual abuse.
Too bad for me as well. Domingo is my favorite modern tenor. His voice is unique for some trained in the Italian school, in terms of style and tonal richness Domingo is more of a Heldentenor, is he not? I've never heard him sing a Wagnerian role, but his vocal qualities have allowed him to migrate to a few baritone roles as he has aged. In terms of my one tastes, I agree with Mozart — tenors are useful and unavoidable, but baritones are more interesting.
OK h...
You're a big shot in the theater and your job for the moment is to audition the dazzling young starlets who want to play your romantic lead...
So, you...
(a) take a good look at each starlet and assess whether she really turns you on; or
(b) ????
Well, I can't think of a (b). You got one?
Replying to SHouting THomas: I no doubt would take option (a) but I would not follow it up with any overt personal comments or overtures to date, or have sex. So (internally) "wow she really turns me on" and (externally) "you've got the role". Not (internally) "wow she really turns me on" and (externally): "you really turn me on, and you can have the role if perform this sexual act."
Most performers of his stature just scan the first few rows for likely candidates. Everybody is an adult, nobody cares. Maybe he was just lazy?
h writes: I think the burden of proof shifts to accused (in the court of public of opinion).
The court of public opinion has a well-earned reputation as the anvil of tyranny, h. I'd put no trust in it, nor would I pollute my writings with anything sentiment showing the least deference to its generally vile machinations. The phrase "court of public opinion" denigrates the concept of justice. For the sake of everyone else, I hope Domingo fights this tooth and nail. I also hope (likely in vain) that his accusers, absent some real proof, fall very hard on their collective ass.
There are two distinct dimensions here: ethical and behavioral.
I agree completely that ethically this is wrong, on *all* sides. But people in the entertainment world do all kinds of things that are ethically shady to help their careers, always have, always will.
It is what it is. Don’t ignore the reality of self-interested human behavior. You will never re-wire it.
h reminds me of William Roper the Younger (1496-1578) as portrayed by Robert Bolt in his play A Man for All Seasons, a man very anxious to get at the Devil.
Most performers of his stature just scan the first few rows for likely candidates.
No, they don't. They look at their co-stars. Try to imagine this situation:
You're up there every night on stage, singing your heart out to a beautiful lady and trying to win her.
Her tits are about to bust out of her gleaming outfit and by the end of the evening she's declared her devotion and adoration.
Do you have any idea how confusing this becomes for people?
Thank about Joe DiMaggio and Marilyn Monroe.
Don Placido has (or had, he's old now) a reputation.
More of women chasing him than the other way IIRC.
People should be called out when they cross the line, but the trouble is they keep moving the line.....Epstein tried to use the Charlie Chaplain defense. It worked for Charlie but not for Epstein. It worked for Charlie because he used it eighty years ago. Times change.....I don't know how heavy handed or gross. Domingo was in his dealings, but he's got a bill of attainder defense.
Dolly Parton was certainly known to bang her co stars regularly.
Have gun - Will travel
Have penis - Will use it
sexually tinged
Shouldn't that be "genderally tinged"?
"and then sometimes punishing the women professionally... when they refused his advances" Leaving #meToo politics out of this, that is sufficient reason for destroying the criminal's career. Absolutely intolerable in any era. Out, gone.
One has to draw a line and that is one of them.
The arts, entertainment, journalism, academia. All dominated by the Left. All sinkholes of exploitation, sexual abuse, favoritism and monstrous levels of income inequality.
What Greg H said.
These industries are fundamentally different from other types - a lot of your future is determined not just by talent and drive but whose ass you kiss.
It’s the tiebreaker.
What's the point of having power if you can't use it to get women?
Eight singers and a dancer... sexually harassed... over three decades
This annoys me.
The SCA Pedophile got on my radar because he was bullying a grown woman. She wanted to let the whole thing drop, because she feared (rightfully) that her name would be drug through the mud, compounding the bullying effect.
Because the SCA leadership circled the wagons to shield him from any consequence, because they made it clear they wanted it all swept under the rug and why wouldn't I just let it go... I decided to go public with my complaint, mainly via the SCA groups on Facebook. That was read by his past victims, and that's when I started getting messages about "you should talk to so and so about what else he has done, particularly involving single mothers with pre-teen girls. So what was a rather tame complaint about bullying turned into 6 victims of child sex abuse stepping forward to all tell their story.
But that raised another problem. The woman who was bullied resisted filing any complaint. It's as we were taught during the Clinton Impeachment - most women don't want the sexual harasser to be punished, have his life ruined, etc. They just want the bullying/harassment to stop. She was very angry that I had continued to pursue this against her will, even though her reasoning was based on fear. Like the woman who dropped sexual harassment charges because the perp threatened to come back and rape her if she filed.
6 victims.
Do you know why there was a 2nd rape victim? Because the first victim wouldn't come forward.
And there was a 3rd rape victim because the 1st and 2nd wouldn't come forward.
And there was a 4th rape victim because the 1st, 2nd and 3rd wouldn't come forward.
(and if this exercise is unbearable... good)
There was a 5th rape victim because the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th would not come forward
And finally a 6th rape victim, because 5 women before her WHO KNEW EXACTLY WHAT THE RAPE FELT LIKE refused to come forward and file charges.
The only thing that stopped him was my public harassment of him, never missing an opportunity to tell everyone he came in contact with what he was. He was ill and the stress I loaded onto him sent him to an early grave - I'm proud of that. But the only thing that prevented even MORE rape victims was that he was now under a spotlight socially and couldn't prey on women like he was used to.
So when I hear these stories of all these women who were abused, who passed the perp on to another women to suffer the same abuse they experienced, it makes me wonder if they are in some small way responsible for what happened to the women that came after them.
I know it's more complicated for them than that, in fact the experience taught me alot about what women go through, especially the "second rape" when everyone you trust turns on you. But I can't help but blame them a little for letting him do to other women what he did to them, just so he would leave *them* alone. It's not right.
Oh, the pedophile of 12 year old girls was named Richard Mowbry. Fucker was smart and got cremated, because he was not going to be allowed to rest in peace. Crows and Buzzards. And it was telling that his family refused to come to his funeral. Rot in hell.
Replying to Questor 1: Perhaps I shouldn't have used the term "court of public opinion". What I meant to say was that when I evaluate claims of sexual impropriety I give heavy weight to the number of accusers. So in the cases of Anita Hill, Kavanaugh, and the "Trump raped me" woman, I remain very skeptical because of the "it only happened to me" nature of the claims.
Replying to Questor 2: I have seen the movie, but a long time ago, so I turned to Wikipedia: "Roper is an important character in Robert Bolt's famous play A Man for All Seasons, being portrayed as a contrarian, somewhat thick-headed man who would always oppose whatever doctrine was the established one." I don't see how that applies here, unless the larger number of pro-Placido comments qualifies as "established doctrine". I don't see this as much of a criticism in a comment stream: "this person disagrees with the majority of us; therefore his comment must be ridiculed."
The court of public opinion has a well-earned reputation as the anvil of tyranny, h.
Perceptive French observer of the early United States, Alexis de Tocqueville (visiting America and writing about it in his famous tome Democracy in America during the 1830's) had something to say concerning the “irresistible strength” of that “court of public opinion” (or the “majority” as Tocqueville termed it) in these United States of America: [quoting…]
My greatest complaint against democratic government as organized in the United States is not, as many Europeans make out, its weakness, but rather its irresistible strength. What I found most repulsive in America is not the extreme freedom reigning there but the shortage of guarantees against tyranny.
When a man or a party suffers an injustice in the United States, to whom can he turn? To public opinion? That is what forms the majority. To the legislative body? It represents the majority and obeys it blindly. To the executive power? It is appointed by the majority and serves as its passive instrument. To the police? They are nothing but the majority under arms. A jury? The jury is the majority vested with the right to pronounce judgment; even the judges in certain states are elected by the majority. So, however iniquitous or unreasonable the measure which hurts you, you must submit.
But suppose you were to have a legislative body so composed that it represented the majority without being necessarily the slave of its passions, an executive power having a strength of its own, and a judicial power independent of the other two authorities; then you would still have a democratic government, but there would be hardly any remaining risk of tyranny.
[/unQuote]
____
(Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America, 13th Edition, 1850, edited by J. P. Mayer, translated by George Lawrence, Anchor Books, Doubleday and Co., Inc., New York, 1975; pp. 252-253)
I have seen the movie, but a long time ago, so I turned to Wikipedia: "Roper is an important character in Robert Bolt's famous play A Man for All Seasons, being portrayed as a contrarian, somewhat thick-headed man who would always oppose whatever doctrine was the established one.
When I refer to that character, I am usually referring to this exchange:
“William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”
Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”
William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!”
Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”
h: "It is wrong for a person who holds power over another person (in terms of who gets hired, or promoted, or given better parts, or given better recommendations) to ask for sexual favors or to initiate sexual contact to initiate behavior (flirting or dating) that might lead to sexual contact."
It's also wrong to dredge up allegations of misconduct that are decades old and weren't considered important enough to pursue at the time they supposedly occurred because decades later it is impossible for the accused to defend himself. I am absolutely convinced that much of this "metoo" business is just vindictive BS or blatant hit jobs (see Clarence Thomas and Brett Kavanaugh.) So, for Domingo there are eight allegations of sexual harassment, nine accusers of sexual overtures, and three dozen observations of inappropriate sexually tinged behavior, many decades old. I have a vague idea of what sexual harassment could be - though it's often in the eye of the beholder - but what do the crimes of "sexual overtures" or "inappropriate sexually tinged behavior" even mean? And what did it mean at the time it occurred, given the different social rules and standards for interaction between the sexes? And were these considered to be real offenses at the time they supposedly occurred or just perceived to be so by the alleged victim's 20/20 hindsight and applying today's inter-sectional feminism? Men and women used to flirt, which is what a lot of the nebulous accusations would appear to have involved. As I recall, women used to stop unwanted flirting dead in its tracks with a slap or stern warning. So, now we are to believe that they were actually helpless to respond? AA opined in the Cuomo post that men should "Own what you said. Manhood is at stake," and I agree. But what about women standing up for themselves when a perceived offense actually occurs rather than waiting decades to litigate it in the court of pubic opinion and after the mores and standards of behavior have markedly changed? I don't subscribe to the women as helpless flowers who wilt at boorish behavior and roll over and accept it. They need to "woman up" as well, and most seem to do so if they are really offended.
Of course he made suggestive overtures - He's Spainish!
As for the "pressure" and "Blackmail" that's disappointing. Usually world famous singers have to beat them off with a stick. Guess that goes away when you pass 50.
I'd be more sympathetic, but it's all rather vague isn't it? no demands to watch Domingo sing in the shower, no whipping out the Domingo Dick and using the nearest plant, no underage girls, not even a throw down on a couch.
Wow, whatta surprise :)
Poor Placido. He was a man of the world. And now...?
One of Beverly Sills's great stories was about being chased around a piano by George Solti. She slammed the lid on his hand to get away.
We grew up in a world where men (and women) played the game. The game is over for a while.
All the late Victorian prudery has come back in a different form. Pick a little, talk a little.
At one time I had a source of Metropolitan Opera backstage gossip, according to whom Pavarotti was Jack the Lad back when he could still get up and walk. Comes with the territory.
And the sky is blue and water is wet. . . . .
Times change. I do wonder how many young women had unfulfilled expectations about the benefits of sleeping with the star.
Placido is 78 now. Sometimes it takes quite a while for the wronged women to work up the courage to be victims.
So the whole Latin Lover thing is old thinking now.
MayBee you got some 'splainin' to do!
At age 78, he is probably the biggest draw at the Metropolitan Opera, second only to Anna Netrebko.
Could James Levine possibly be behind this?
I feel like I should reply to jaydub, Gahrie, and McNeil (and Questor). I'm not sure that my own opinions are sufficiently well formed for me to "argue". I do want to make a distinction between official legal proceedings, and what people believe (what I believe). In official legal proceedings, I endorse without reservation the idea that legal proceedings must follow all legal rules: presumption of innocence, ability to confront the accuser(s), statutes of limitations. So in this sense, I'm on the side of More not Roper.
But in some (many?) cases, allegations of sexual misconduct never reach any formal inquiry. (Juanita Broderick comes to mind) And in some cases that are formally adjudicated, we (the public) may see evidence that the jury (or judge) does not see, and reach conclusions that differ from the jury verdict. (OJ Simpson comes to mind.)
My comments were in regard to this second group. How do we (should we) make up our minds in these cases? I argued the large number of similar complaints tipped my opinion in favor of the complainants. I agree with jaydub that timeliness of the complaints should also be a factor, though I (perhaps more than jaydub) am willing to consider non-formal contemporary reports (diary entries, complaints to friends or therapists). And if I decide that Placido Domingo is an ill-mannered person, that amounts to no punishment whatsoever.
If I decide that, and if enough people reach the same conclusion, and if the accused were younger (say Kevin Spacey), the accused might suffer professional damage without ever facing a formal hearing. I guess that is what amounts to a "court of public opinion", and leads de Tocqueville to condemn the tyranny of the majority opinion. But what really are the alternatives: should we reject any temptation to come to a personal opinion in such cases? Should we adopt an "innocent until proven guilty" attitude in these private cerebral judgments? Should we disconnect decisions about what artists to patronize based on decisions about their private lives? I think I am persuadable to a "yes" on this last question.
"and as presented"
Inaccurate as presented, but not inaccurate enough for an outright denial.
In the immortal words of Don Giovanni, "And my dear Zerlina. I offer you my protection."
"And when you're a star, they'll let you do it. You can do anything."
And that's allegedly true whether you're a man like Placido Domingo or a woman like Katy Perry, who is facing her own allegation of harassment.
I also intended to reply to jaydub's observation that standards of acceptable behavior change over time. I agree with this as a general point, and I don't condemn Fred Astaire for appearing in black face. In general, I believe that almost everyone simply adopts the path of least resistance which is to accept the general mores of their age. So I can admire John Brown for opposing slavery in the 1840s, but not think that it is particularly admirable for a modern politician to oppose slavery. What I see too often is a modern person adopting modern standards (easy to do) to blame a historic person who adopted the standards of his age (easy to do).
But, that said, I do not agree that there was ever a time when using a position of power to gain sexual favors was regarded as acceptable behavior. I know some slave masters had sex with slaves; and that the "casting couch" was a staple stereotype in past decades, but I don't think even by the standards of those times such behavior was regarded as moral. I anticipate that some might reply, "the behavior was accepted, therefore is was socially acceptable." I'm not sure I have a good reply to that, except that perpetrators of such behavior felt enough shame to try to cover it up.
"he pursued younger women with impunity"
Just what kind of 'punity' is appropriate for a man pursuing younger women? Unless they were under-aged. I would say that the pursuit of younger women is a fairly common--and often fruitless--exercise for middle aged men trying desperately to reawaken what's left of their manhood.
At some point, METOO has to mean that incidents get reported promptly. Edith Bunker told that to everyone 45 years ago. It should have sunk in by now.
It sounds like a MeToo SheKnew SheProgressed problem. Female chauvinism and a Pro-Choice quasi-religion ("ethics") are a toxic combination that harms women, men, and babies, too.
Uncomfortable? Have you ever had blue balls? That's uncomfortable too. It's a compassion battle of the sexes!
I bet all his pick-up lines have that sing song quality that can really turn you off.
"Just what kind of 'punity' is appropriate for a man pursuing younger women? Unless they were under-aged. I would say that the pursuit of younger women is a fairly common--and often fruitless--exercise for middle aged men trying desperately to reawaken what's left of their manhood."
The same as it has ever been.
It is good to be the king.
Its not necessarily fruitless.
Unless there is a problem with acknowledging mistresses and bastards.
The better kings did that.
One of the better qualities of Charles II I always thought.
"I bet all his pick-up lines have that sing song quality that can really turn you off."
Its done with a look, that's all.
Amazing how it works.
Paster Niemoller would understand
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Placido was the only one left.
Jagger gets as much trim as Placido does, and neither has to beg. I'd bet the Plaster Casters already got ol' Placido on a shelf somewhere. If Meatloaf can do it Placido sure can. No disrespect to Meatloaf. They both melt the lady's hearts.
Powerful people abuse power to get what they want. Dog biting man.
Any lady opera singers here? I'm curious if the old line about jizz being good for the throat still gets deployed.
An artist's private behaviour has NO effect whatever on my appreciation (or otherwise) of his, her, or ze's work.
Narr
Domingo has balls big enough, and a broad enough fan base, not to be Keillored easily
h: "But, that said, I do not agree that there was ever a time when using a position of power to gain sexual favors was regarded as acceptable behavior."
Nor do I. But the bad behavior must be confronted at the time of its occurrence, not dredged up decades later and used as a cudgel. I keep coming back to the conclusion that if wasn't worth pursuing then, maybe there were other factors in play apart from career issues that cause the supposedly aggrieved party to let it lie. Maybe it wasn't considered that egregious then, maybe the woman was not completely innocent either, maybe she misremembers events, maybe she wasn't credible. Who knows? There are reasons why statutes of limitations exist, and one of them is because the further one gets from the event, the less accurate are the memories of the witnesses. It also makes the defense of the accused very difficult if not impossible. Nor am I a believer in the truthfulness of every woman who makes such charges. When I was in the Navy I had command of a ship repair facility that had around 3,000 sailors, including about 300 women. About 5 - 10% of the enlisted women were very adept at what my female executive officer called "sexual politics," or using their gender to manipulate male sailors, particularly senior enlisted men in their chain of command. If they didn't get what they wanted or were angry enough, they often tried to punish the male sailors through false accusations of harassment or discrimination or worse. Not much different from what happens on college campuses today. My executive officer and the female command master chief were very adept at cutting right through the bullshit and getting to the bottom line, which was seldom as originally described. Those two not only saved a few male petty officers' careers from bogus charges, they also opened my eyes to how vicious young women can be.
"When Domingo left for a performance, the woman said, he put $10 on the dresser, saying, 'I don’t want you to feel like a prostitute, but I also don’t want you to have to pay to park.'"
Buwaya, of course, power makes all the difference. I was referring to middle-aged men in general. Power affords not just a quid pro quo opportunity, it is most certainly a strong aphrodisiac.
When a man is thusly accused he should just laugh. If an actual crime has been involved, the onus is on the accuser to seek justice.
Dolly Parton was certainly known to bang her co stars regularly.
So was Kay Parker.
Dolly Parton was certainly known to bang her co stars regularly.
So was Kay Parker.
So was Grace Kelley. So was just about every movie actress I can think of.
He’s a Spaniard. What’s the big deal?
it is most certainly a strong aphrodisiac.
It is also accompanied by another strong aphrodisiac.
“There are a number of mechanical devices which increase sexual
arousal, particularly in women. Chief among these is the
Mercedes-Benz SL500.”
Lynn Lavner
Even a 450SL might be sufficient.
That may be true of some women, Michel K, but there are those of us who find men of power sexually appealing aside from the 'goodies'. It's no accident that Gloria Steinem dated both Henry Kissinger and Jim Brown. Both men of power in different ways. I doubt she got, or even wanted, a Mercedes out of the deal.
And I don't find cars at all sexy, no matter how costly. While I'm sure some women do, it's usually the biggest assholes who drive the fanciest cars, IIRC.
trying desperately to reawaken what's left of their manhood
Reawaken?? It's funny how menopause doesn't apply to men.
when I evaluate claims of sexual impropriety I give heavy weight to the number of accusers.
I do too. But when I see running up the score with "sexual overtures" and "made me uncomfortable"; I take it the more serious accusations are not that strong. That's the thing with numbers; it only takes one false claim to create a benefit of doubt.
$Metoo.
Whatever happened to the Tom Brokaw accusations?
https://althouse.blogspot.com/2018/04/i-write-this-letter-at-4-am-dawn-of-my.html
Which featured a link in the comments to a (maybe)Lazlo character blog: (https://iwantedcheeseonthat.blogspot.com/
)
saw this Tom Brokaw molester shit yesterday, so I was figuring Althouse would do a big post on it, like take him apart line by line and trace the history of words and shit. I don't know, maybe she will do that later, it might be, like, lunch-time in Wisconsin. Because I don't even know what time zone Wisconsin is in, I only know the east coast is, like, three hours ahead of Washington, and then there's that daylight-savings time and shit, and Wisconsin is somewhere in the middle.
#theyalso
If women want free sexual agency for themselves in society, they need to be able to muster the strength to decline a man's advances. Now if there were express conditions on these advances like, sleep with me and I'll give your career a boost, or sleep with me, ... or else, then yeah society needs to protect women from these kinds of actions by men. But if it is just a man coming onto a woman makes that woman feel uncomfortable then sorry ladies but you got to toughen up.
replying to jaydub: Thanks for the response. I have not had the experience you have had. But I accept the legitimacy of what you describe.
Hard to know how to assess old complaints such as these. First, there's the matter of accuracy - virtually impossible to determine at such a remove. Then, there's the matter of "if only" - *if only* he hadn't prevented my career success, I would be a famous diva now... but what if I am misassessing my own talent and drive? Finally, there is the fact that an opera singer is fulfilling a very significant female fantasy - passionate wooing that does not actually require a culminating action. Very emotionally charged situation for the woman. And to be rejected for the *performance* may indeed feel awfully personal, whether it is or not. On the man's side, the feeling of power over a potential performance partner could overwhelm his ethical sense.
So, in short, I can see the possibility of fault or deceit on both sides here. Tenors I've known tell me they are viewed as either gay, or total horndogs (that's a quote).
"In short"... See, that's my sense of humor in action!
Althouse is of the opinion that no woman should in any way be made to feel a smidge uncomfortable, particularly in a sexual way.
The only exception I have heard her state is if it is a female politician being asked tough questions ON POLICY. Any other discomfort is verboten.
There is no statute of limitations on discomfort. Accusations 30, 40 years old, unpursued are all fair game, particularly against Republicans. The dirt on Dems tends to drop away quickly.
Has anyone discussed Keith (POP!) Ellison recently?
Man attracted to woman and makes his attraction plain.
In some cases, attraction is unreciprocated and the awareness makes the woman cagey, because these idiot women are shocked every time a man is interested in her sexually against her wishes.
Using his power? There is a subtle difference between 'I can help your career' and 'If you don'ts puts out, you'll never eat lunch in dis town again, Toots!'
The moral hierarchy, from lowest to highest, is
Stick
Carrot and Stick
Carrot.
But ALL flirtation et al is 'Carrot' "Look what I can do, mean and provide for you".
I have no patience with this since Roy Moore, Menendez, Fairfax, and particularly Kavanaugh.
It is hard to believe all women when EVERY SINGLE big news rape story was at best questionable if not indubitably false.
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No ex post facto laws. Even in your riotous mob of public opinion
Over the years I heard a fair share of office gossip about X sleeping with Y. I even heard I was screwing around with one of our attorneys. I was not. My standard answer was, "If you didn't see them in the act,you don't know."
The woman MUST be believed was always a BS standard.
But it used to be I felt the woman was likely telling the truth (at least in an office setting) because the negative potential was tremendous. Now? It seems the payoff outweighs the risk.
But now, I'm taking a position more like NEO-FIDO. I'm largely skeptical unless there is compelling evidence.
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