"... in his encounters with girls.... The school, which had been a progressive haven for the children of artists and writers, was undergoing a shift under a new headmaster. Donald Barr, the father of Attorney General William Barr, came in as a disciplinarian focused on beefing up the academics of the school, and on enforcing a strict code of conduct.... While Mr. Barr was strict on the school culture, he made it a point to hire teachers from unconventional backgrounds.... Mr. Epstein, from Brooklyn, was just 21 when he joined the faculty at Dalton, arriving without a college degree.... ... Leslie Kitziger, who graduated from Dalton in 1978... remembered him as a flamboyant dresser and lively jokester. 'He was goofy and like a kid himself,' she recalled.... 'He listened,' Ms. Kitziger recalled. 'I was a 14-year-old and he helped me through a time when there wasn’t anybody else to talk to. I felt like he really cared that I was having a rough go.' She stressed that Mr. Epstein was always professional with her. But other students, including Millicent Young, a graduate of the school’s 1976 class, saw things differently.... She recalled observing Mr. Epstein flirting with the girls at the school.... 'There was a real clarity of the inappropriateness of the behavior — that this isn’t how adult male teachers conduct themselves,' Ms. Young said.... [Another] student who graduated the same year, said he had a clear recollection of disliking Mr. Epstein because he was spending so much time with girls in the school...."
There are no photographs of Leslie Kitziger and Millicent Young as they looked when they were Dalton students, so I am left to hypothesize that Kitziger was pretty in a way that Young was not.
There are plenty of photographs of Epstein in his schoolteacher days. Here's the 1976 yearbook photo:
Did "Welcome Back" start playing in your head? It's like "Welcome Back, Kotter," but the teacher is John Travolta. Or does he remind you of — what was his name? — Epstein!!
ADDED: Why would an elite private school hire a 21 year old guy who didn't finish college to teach math and science?
I assume he got the job because of his looks, style, and charm.
And this was under a headmaster who was supposedly "focused on beefing up the academics of the school." Wouldn't the school's PR include statements about the credentials of the teachers?!
Who were the people who boosted Epstein in his early life? What the hell was going on? It's not just about Epstein's harmful expression of his own sexuality, it's the other men who gave him not just passes but boosts.
Guggenbuhl-Craig says borderline pedophiles make good teachers because they can sustain an interest in what the kid is saying where a normal adult tunes out.
I find the fact that the current Attorney General's father was Headmaster of a school for the elites fascinating. Just how inbred are our "elites?" According to wikipedia Donald Barr served in the OSS and is the son of a psychologist and an economist, both from Manhattan.
I hate whataboutism. But to get to the core of what has happened don't we have to try to get to causes and conditions?
My self proclaimed moral betters knew what was going on. The power people knew young girls were being sacrificed.
Hollywood has been a codified sexual assualt immunity zone since the inception of moving pictures...and all the power people actively enabled all the abuse. Oprha Winfery is the most powerful women in media on the globe. I am to believe she was totaly unaware of Weinstien.
With Epstien, there is a list of attendees to the bash he through when he got out to jail. Katie Couric and Stephenopolous in attendence. Helping a convicted pedophile celebrate his crimes. But today, Acosta is the evil scapegoat.
Fathers need to take back the protection of their children. Epstien recovering from a good beating would have slowed him down, until a father actualy killed him. The get aquited by a jury envoking jury nullification, because law enforement and justice are too corrupt.
Was it legal for a person to teach without a degree in those days? How did he get a teaching license/certificate from the state dept of education? Was that required at the time?
Did he have any education courses or training?
A Master degree in education is probably the most useless degree going but is required in many states to maintain certification as a teacher.
Blogger iowan2 said... Fathers need to take back the protection of their children. Epstien recovering from a good beating would have slowed him down, until a father actualy killed him. The get aquited by a jury envoking jury nullification, because law enforement and justice are too corrupt.
"Fathers need to take back the protection of their children. Epstien recovering from a good beating would have slowed him down, until a father actualy killed him. The get aquited by a jury envoking jury nullification, because law enforement and justice are too corrupt."
Provocative, but on the mark.
One of the biggest social disasters was the Left encouraging/promoting fathers to leave families, replaced by welfare checks.
Epstein is great at math. The fact that he doesn’t have a college degree - much less from a college of education - is meaningless to me. The best teachers I had were alll in law school.
Strange is it not, that the Media refuses to write stories about Horndog Clintoon's numerous visits to Pedophile Island? Instead, they dig up some little factoid that the Attorney General Barr's father ran the school where Democratic Party Luminary, Jeff Epstein, taught? Yes, that's another story the Media refuses to tell: Epstein's connections to the Dem Party and the Clintoon Crime Foundation. The modern media in the US is the functional equivalent of Pravda
"Who were the people who boosted Epstein in his early life? What the hell was going on? It's not just about Epstein's harmful expression of his own sexuality, it's the other men who gave him not just passes but boosts."
How did you get from "people who boosted Epstein in his early life" to "the other men who gave him passes?" It sounds to me like there were a lot of men AND women who gave him passes as well as a number of men AND women who actively facilitated his predatory nature later in life. This is a criminal matter and, there were plenty of abetters around of both sexes.
It was a private school. There are no requirements to teach at a private school other than the school is willing to hire you. There are no requirements to teach at a private college or university, either. While most schools try to amass credentials, there are times when a person with life experience is hired to teach a course because of his experience. A famous author to teach a writing course, an inventor to teach an engineering class, a successful businessman to teach a class for entrepreneurs. While I have no idea what experience Epstein might have had to make him qualified to teach math, it was at a time when math teachers were hard to find. Women who were talented at math were beginning to find the doors to other math-oriented careers open to them. The pool of math and science teachers has never recovered from the exodus of women. At that time the government was offering financial incentives to people willing to go to school to become math and science teachers. Ten percent of student loans forgiven for each year you taught up to 50% of your loan.
“One of the biggest social disasters was the Left encouraging/promoting fathers to leave families, replaced by welfare checks.”
Oh please. So simplistic. The men who wouldn’t marry the women who they impregnated didn’t do so because the woman got a welfare check. You think he cared? If anything a welfare check might keep him around. Plus if you think that no Rightists weren’t involved in this depravity you are being ridiculous.
Who were the people who boosted Epstein in his early life? What the hell was going on? It's not just about Epstein's harmful expression of his own sexuality, it's the other men who gave him not just passes but boosts.
Why the shift from "people" to "men"?
No woman must be made to feel bad about, or responsible for, anything, ever.
"Plus if you think that no Rightists weren’t involved in this depravity you are being ridiculous."
I was a Cultist, but now I'm a Rightist......
The entire welfare state created by LBJ's War on Poverty in the 60s, had the effect of destroying nuclear families by replacing fathers with government handouts. Go read anything by Thomas Sowell.
“One of the biggest social disasters was the Left encouraging/promoting fathers to leave families, replaced by welfare checks.”
Oh please. So simplistic. The men who wouldn’t marry the women who they impregnated didn’t do so because the woman got a welfare check. You think he cared? If anything a welfare check might keep him around.
Are you that ignorant? The government gives more money to single mothers than they do married mothers. The more children, the more money.
Oh please. So simplistic. The men who wouldn’t marry the women who they impregnated didn’t do so because the woman got a welfare check. You think he cared?
Given that you are simple minded, Inga one has to keep it simple with you. Yet, you still don't get it.
The welfare system (e.g., ADC) replaced the need for marriage. Marriage has traditionally been the way people achieve enough financial stability to raise kids. With welfare, many women feel they don't need a father around to help support the kids. The guys who are getting these women pregnant don't give a shit one way or another.
The resulting pathology is the curse of our times.
Within my lifetime, we moved from "sex will liberate you" to "sex will kill you."
An interesting and goofy cycle that must have been repeated thousands of times in human history.
The early 70s were the height of the "sex will liberate you" hysteria. Anybody who abstained from the liberation was "uptight."
The AIDS epidemic was the first bomb in the "sex will kill you" hysteria.
Although, oddly, the people who threw the bomb were gay men, now lionized as our cultural heroes and moral betters.
The chicken hawks are still harvesting the chickens at the Greenwich Village subway stop, I assure you. Pedophilia is on open display in the Village for any of you who would like to walk around and take a look. But the victims are young men.
Watch out for (1) youth coaches (esp little league and volleyball) and (2) department store Santa Clauses. Also, as a general rule, beware of (3) male OB/GYN docs. Just sayin'.
Men didn’t marry these women because they didn’t want to. Women most likely did not stop from marrying because of a puny welfare check. The onus is on the MAN who didn’t want responsibility of a family. Welfare had precious little to do with it. Those of you who should know better seem to be as ignorant of human interaction as a monkey in a troop of monkeys.
In terms of high schools the word 'elite' has two disparate meanings: Schools that are elite in the sense that they're expensive, and those where you have to be smart and/or talented to get in. Thus, for example, New York's Bronx High School of Science numbers among its alumni seven Nobel laureates in physics, whereas Dalton has graduated such intellectual luminaries as Chevy Chase and Anderson Cooper. As a friend of mine once observed, "You could sell people dog shit if only you'd price it high enough."
Mr. Kotter as the cool teacher's interactions with Vinnie and the boys was the fodder for sit com gold. But at least in college in the 60s, the defining trait of the cool teacher beyond long hair was his open flirtatiousness with female students.
Obviously, he was hired because he was charming and very smart and good at math and science. The 70s were full of that kind of behavior. And no one seemed too upset about it. In American Graffiti a teacher is making out with a student, but is presented positively as a voice of wisdom when he tells Dreyfus to go out and take a chance.
We had a male teacher in his late 20s who was too friendly with the junior/sophomore girls - but I don't remember the HS administrators doing anything about it.
"The onus is on the MAN who didn’t want responsibility of a family"
Yes, I agree. It was the synergy between 2 major bad policies: (1) the sexual revolution (sex without family responsibility) and (2) the creation of the welfare state that, mostly in the inner cities, destroyed the work ethic and social fabric. These trends combined to wreck many nuclear families - resulting in a lotta lost, impoverished, and homeless folks.
Technically, like girls 14-15 isn't "pedophilia" since they aren't children. I've known plenty of 14-15 girls who could pass for 18. But we need to draw the line somewhere, and 16 seems like a good place.
Think back to the movie Manhattan. Woody's girlfriend in that movie is a student at Dalton. Nobody blinked an eye at the relationship. These were the kind of people who sent their kids to Dalton. The past is a different place. Maybe Woody pulled strings to get him his gig. Epstein could serve as his scout. Maybe some of the parents thought it would be a good thing if the their kids first experience was with a personable twenty year old teacher.
I don't remember reading any charge that Epstein "forced" these young girls into anything; he just offered them money, and they took it. His pimp, Ghislaine Maxwell, seems to have been very talented in spotting the girls most likely to take the bait.
To be clear, I am pretty much a pre-war, small-town, Norwegian Lutheran, and did not know all these perversions even existed until reading about them on this blog and others in later years. It is knowledge I could have done without, and in no way do I want to give an impression that I approve of any of this kind of behavior. But I do wonder about the media hurrahing, and am as sceptical of these girls blubbering on TV as I am of any other women I see blubbering on TV about whatever. They just aren't that talented actresses.
This is far from the only irregularity in Epstein's career. He made partner at Bear Stearn's in four years. That's a great deal more unusual than landing a teaching job at Dalton. How did that happen? Epstein has some unusual skills and not just in math and sex.....Is there are any pressure on Cyrus Vance to resign. Epstein got a lot of special treatment in NYC. How about Katie Couric and Stephanopoulos? Does accepting Epstein's hospitality influence their coverage (or rather non-coverage) of his case. Will they be called out on it? Why was Ms. Maxwell never charged with a crime.....There are a lot of questions. One of them is why are only Republicans held accountable for their Epstein connections?
Inga covering for Bill Clinton who had 27 visits to Epstein's island, but accuses President Trump, who has zero island visits of being interested in little girls.
Inga is why men are justified in calling certain women 'cunts'. She shames women everywhere by her mean-spirited diversions and takes on current events. Inga doesn't stand for women's rights and justice. Before she can take a 'moral' stance on any subject she needs to know the political persuasions of all those involved. She is more than happy to rely on half-truths and outright fabrications, wild speculations and baseless conjecturing to support her fascistic worldview; especially when the facts point out how ultimately depraved the people that she supports are. I guess part of that is a subconscious awareness of her own flaccid intellectuality and inability to form and express rational thought.
I hope that the fault for her lies in Alzheimers and that the good Lord will treat her amorality with mercy.
William Barr's father hired Epstein. Epstein flirted with the girls at William Barr's father's school, then went on to be a notorious pedophile. Donald Trump chose William Barr to be his AG. See there? The conclusion is obvious. That goddam Trump!
Also women getting better paying jobs increased the divorce rate. Those dirty liberal capitalist pigs.
I agree, Howard. Yet, the issue is not the divorce rate, but the failure to marry rate.
What percentage of kids are born without a father in the house? Compare that to 50 years ago. That is not progress.
I agree. Hey, maybe that high fiber diet is working, Thanks! Now that I no longer sap and impurify my precious bodily solids, my head is much clearer now.
Perhaps this has already been mentioned but according to the Daily Beast (take of that what you will) Barr’s father had left Dalton before Epstein was hired.
“In 1974, Dalton was run by headmaster Donald Barr—father of Attorney General William Barr, whose Justice Department recently began a review of Epstein’s 2007 non-prosecution agreement for the Palm Beach child sexual assault charges. Writers have noted the interesting coincidence. However, Donald Barr resigned in turmoil in February of 1974 (according to the March 14, 1974 issue of The Daltonian) which was seven months before Jeffrey Epstein began teaching there that fall. While it is possible that Donald Barr may have hired Epstein, if he made personnel decisions long in advance, the Dalton School lost four math teachers (according to The Daltonian) prior to the 1974-75 school year. Therefore the school may have hired Epstein, in part, out of an urgent need to fill vacant positions—even though Epstein did not have a college degree.”
Gabe Kaplan was doing a standup gig on a cruise ship in about 2000 when I saw him. Now, cruise ships are not exactly the Big Time, and Gabe seemed to be down on his luck. He got lost a couple of times in his routine, but seemed OK when schmoozing with the pax after the show.
Gabe Kaplan was doing a standup gig on a cruise ship in about 2000 when I saw him. Now, cruise ships are not exactly the Big Time, and Gabe seemed to be down on his luck. He got lost a couple of times in his routine, but seemed OK when schmoozing with the pax after the show.
He spends most of his time trying to play poker these days.
Donald Barr resigned in turmoil in February of 1974 (according to the March 14, 1974 issue of The Daltonian) which was seven months before Jeffrey Epstein began teaching
In other words, there was no point in the NYT in even mentioning him except to slime him (and by extension William Barr and Trump) by creating the false impression that he is some how implicated.
"Epstein was born in 1953 in Brooklyn, New York to parents Paula (nee Stolofsky, 1918-2004) and Seymour G. Epstein (1916-1991). Epstein's parents were married in 1952, shortly before his birth. Paula was a homemaker and Seymour Epstein worked for the New York City Department of Parks and Recreation as a groundskeeper and gardner [sic]. Jeffrey Epstein is the oldest of two siblings. He grew up in Coney Island, New York. Epstein is Jewish. In 1967, Epstein attended the National Music Camp at the Interlochen Center for the Arts.He graduated in 1969 from Lafayette High School at age 16 having skipped two grades. Later that year, he attended classes at Cooper Union until he changed colleges in 1971. In the fall of 1971, he attended the Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences at New York University, but left without receiving a degree in 1974. Epstein taught calculus and physics at the Dalton School in Manhattan from 1974 to 1976."
From the Wikipedia article on Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences at New York University: "The mathematics department is consistently ranked in the United States as #1 in applied mathematics."
So, I'm guessing he was over-the-top brilliant and he didn't need more time in college to be OVER qualified to teach math to rich-kid highschoolers. The question is why did he opt out of a high-level career at that point?
Epstein is obviously extremely charming, particularly on casual acquaintance. He appears to be a math whiz. I read that Ace Greenburg's kid (a son, I think) had Epstein as a math teacher, and Ace hired him at Bear Stearns, or something like that.
Financial and business reporting in the media is so lousy that you never understand how someone made a fortune. Instead, you get a lot of warmed-over speculation that is worthless because it is gossip. No one who reads the press knows how Epstein made his money.
What is remarkable is that he was not shunned after his guilty plea. Couric and Stephanopoulos went to his coming out party? Cyrus Vance's office tried to downgrade Epstein's status as a sex offender? I think there are pictures of Epstein with Prince Andrew after he got out of jail. Epstein swung a big bat socially in Manhattan even after his jail trip.
My current feeling is that Acosta has already paid the biggest penalty that anyone other than Epstein is going suffer from this. Isn't anyone in the press curious about all those trips that Clinton reportedly took with Epstein? What was Alan Dershowitz doing on that plane, even if he was Epstein's lawyer? People are going to run and hide from this, and the media appear to be interested only in any Republicans they can drag into the picture.
Society has always relied upon women to control reproduction. Smart, responsible women (the ones that societies want reproducing) needed to be selective in choosing their bedmates because the consequences of her poor decision would fall solely upon her and her child. Birth control freed us up by minimizing the risks associated with sating our sexual urges, thus making selectivity only an issue in finding a long term mate. This should have been a net gain for society except welfare added an incentive for women in the lower economic strata to mate and produce so that they become eligible for welfare and housing support - allowing them to move out of their overcrowded, shitty hell-hole of publicly-provided apartment in the projects and start their own overcrowded, shitty hell-hole apartment in the projects of their own.
We gave away our power for the sake of fun and convenience and thereby were derelict in our duty.
One of the news stories quoted a woman who said when she was 14, he forcibly penetrated her over her protests.
When she was 15, after two years of giving Epstein "massages" and watching him masturbate. and then she breaks down into blubbering tears, so Savannah Guthrie had to tactfully stop prying.
Pay attention, and keep your eye on the ball!
And with all the revelations we have had about behavior at now all the network headquarters - including Fox - don't tell me that these women anchors do not recognize this for what it is. They are just looking at younger, penny ante, versions of themselves.
Just what you want in a teacher [eye roll]. The high school teachers I respected and learned from were both strict and very adult. Some were the same ones my mother had, so they were old. OTOH, some who thought themselves cool and who were lax on classroom order were actually laughed at behind their backs. Mr. L---, a male who taught American Lit, was thusly ineffective. Someone hung a sign over his classroom door that said, "L---'s Zoo". Another of that type was arrested for indecent liberties.
Both parents and teachers should act like grownups.
So, I'm guessing he was over-the-top brilliant and he didn't need more time in college to be OVER qualified to teach math to rich-kid highschoolers. The question is why did he opt out of a high-level career at that point?
1974 was a rotten year on Wall Street, the worst since the Depression. Dalton gave him a better entree. Poor Martha Stewart started as a boiler-room stock jobber.
"He grew up in Coney Island, New York. Epstein is Jewish. In 1967, Epstein attended the National Music Camp at the Interlochen Center for the Arts.He graduated in 1969 from Lafayette High School at age 16 having skipped two grades."
Uh-oh, I detect the Philip Roth syndrome. Epstein prolly read "Portnoy's Complaint" a few too many times - then spent his entire life trying to live it.
One guy as a teacher preys on high school girls -- takes decades to get a semblance of a comeuppance. Good thing he didn't become a Republican and be appointed to the Supreme Court, or people might have come out and said something sooner!
Any musician who was involved in the rock scene in the early 70s (like me) knows that underage girls flocked to the drug and sex parties and begged to be included.
You could throw them out as many times as you liked and they just kept coming back. Many of them lied about their ages and carried fake IDs.
If they couldn’t crash your scene, they went elsewhere until they found willing hosts.
I suspect that most of Epstein’s girls had a similar m.o.
"I don't trust guys who really, really like working with kids."
-- I like working with kids; I really enjoyed the few times I've been at a game store doing board game day and got to teach kids Magic or some other board game -- but I am perfectly aware of this sort of bias, and therefore have never made myself available as a mentor or Big Brother sort of group.
"Helping a convicted pedophile celebrate his crimes."
-- I mean, Roman Polanski should have made you aware that's how it was going to be. It's also why, as crazy and impossible stupid as the Cosmic Ping Pong Podesta email conspiracy theory was, people thought it was possible -- because there are some high profile, rich people who DO seem to think that raping children is, eh, OK, if the person doing it is artistic or rich enough with the right political boxes checked.
“This is far from the only irregularity in Epstein's career. He made partner at Bear Stearn's in four years. That's a great deal more unusual than landing a teaching job at Dalton. How did that happen? Epstein has some unusual skills and not just in math and sex.....”
One thing to keep in mind there is that making (junior) partner at a place like Bear Stearns very likely had a big money angle. What we call in the legal business “rain making”. If you are bringing in a lot more money than the next guy, you are very likely going to make partner faster. Far faster than if you are some sort of math genius. So, the question should probably be rephrased as “how did Epstein start bringing in so much money so quickly that they would make him a partner so quickly”. And knowing what we know now about the guy, some obvious possibilities present themselves.
Epstein may not have started with blackmail. His success at Bears Stearns May have been as simple that while other salesmen were treating their clients to golf, and maybe Caribbean cruises, Epstein may have offered sex with slightly underaged young women. For some of a slightly pervy nature, it was win/win - they had Bear Stearns handling their money, and were able to dip their wicks in a way that their spouses could never track. Dalton, and former Dalton, girls may have been an advantage here, as they came from at least close to the same social echelon as their Johns.
Assuming this to have been the way things started, everything else is history, with him gradually working up to volume procurement of underaged females for use by his clientele, as he worked up from the rich to the very rich in the pervy men whom he was selling to on the other side of the equation. And at some point he probably figured that he needed insurance against his pervy clientele, if, for example, there were ultimately some trading losses, and that was when he started photographing them. And, maybe he finally did need the insurance against a client, and realized that blackmail was maybe even more lucrative as a source of income than were commissions on managing money.
"People are going to run and hide from this, and the media appear to be interested only in any Republicans they can drag into the picture." That is exactly what Ann did. Neutral my arse.
It's interesting how 14 year olds don't have the moral agency to consent to sex, but they do have the moral agency to consent to having their sex changed.
Shouting Thomas said... Any musician who was involved in the rock scene in the early 70s (like me) knows that underage girls flocked to the drug and sex parties and begged to be included"
Think of the Stones song "Stray Cat Blues." Mick didn't want her ID. I'm sure the guys in Led Zep and other big acts weren't fussy about ages either back in the '70's. Teenage groupies were part of the rock and roll lifestyle, as glorified by Rolling Stone magazine.
Bringing back memories of mid ‘70s high school for me. A number of younger male teachers who enjoyed being around the high school girls. No idea if it went any farther than mildly inappropriate flirtation. But still noticeable. I probably assumed these men were older than they actually were. But they had their groupies.
I never underestimate the depravity and insularity of connected NYC denizens. That includes politicians, finance, media, private schools and non-profits.
Yes!!!! As I looked at the photograph, I did immediately think of Welcome Back, Kotter, but I was seeing Gabe Kaplan as Kotter, not the students. The only thing missing was Kaplan's mustache.
"I find the fact that the current Attorney General's father was Headmaster of a school for the elites fascinating. Just how inbred are our "elites?"
It is fascinating, but in this case I don't think it necessarily a coincidence. Perhaps Barr remembers hearing stories about Epstein from his father, and once he was the AG again, decided to have someone take another look at this guy.
"Think of the Stones song "Stray Cat Blues." Mick didn't want her ID."
Yes! And let's add Mick's view on race to this sexual stew:
Gold coast slave ship bound for cotton fields Sold in a market down in New Orleans Skydog slaver knows he's doing alright Hear him whip the women just around midnight
Brown sugar how come you taste so good? Brown sugar just like a young girl should
Drums beating, cold English blood runs hot Lady of the house wonderin' where it's gonna stop House boy knows that he's doing alright You shoulda heard him just around midnight
Brown sugar how come you taste so good, now? Brown sugar just like a young girl should, now
It's interesting how 14 year olds don't have the moral agency to consent to sex, but they do have the moral agency to consent to having their sex changed.
They can get abortions without their parents permission or knowledge also.
Trans-social. He was forward-looking for his time, with aspiration for a less strict, less labels, less judgmental, progressive liberal social climate. #LoveWins
14 year olds don't have the moral agency to consent to sex... They can get abortions without their parents permission or knowledge also.
That's because they don't have the mental capacity to understand the human reproductive process and they have been indoctrinated with the twilight quasi-religious belief of shared or shifted responsibility... barefoot, taxable, and available.
Lots of important questions need to be asked right now. This is not one of them.
For instance, the Palm Beach County prosecutor at the time, Krischer. See www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/274269/democrat-who-let-jeffrey-epstein-get-away-daniel-greenfield ... Krischer spends two years going after Rush Limbaugh, but not interested in nailing Epstein. WTF?
Maybe this late-coming brouhaha is not political operation, but just a savvy tort law firm deciding that Jeffrey Epstein was a long neglected gold mine lode?
Feels like the Democrats are desperate to tie this to Trump.
Barr’s Fathers relation is a huge stretch.
Powerline linked to a Washington Post article about how Acosta’s strategy at labor was playing it safe. Democrats would have been smart to leave him alone, but it seems they are flailing around at any target to distract, so the huge pink elephants in the room, Clinton and other major democratic supporters relations with Epstein, become old news and buried.
“It is fascinating, but in this case I don't think it necessarily a coincidence. Perhaps Barr remembers hearing stories about Epstein from his father, and once he was the AG again, decided to have someone take another look at this guy”
Or, maybe this is just low hanging fruit for going after the Clintons in particular, and the Deep State in general. Fairly recently, Crooked Hillary was still trying to take the lead in claiming Obstruction of Justice by Trump, secure in the knowledge that she would never pay the price for the Steele Dossier (supposedly constructed with Russian government help) that she and her captive DNC had commissioned and paid for. Not only did the Deep State let her skate on her thousands of email related felonies, they also never questioned that they were being used by her against the man who had deprived her of the prize that she was due - the Presidency. It was hers, Trump stole it from her, and the Deep State continues to make him pay for that presumption.
The pressure is going to be enormous to kill this. If it isn’t killed, there is a good chance that Bill Clinton’s legacy for the history books is going to be as a feckless, reckless, pedophile. And other prominent Democrats are going to be similarly exposed, though, as usual, Bill Clinton will inevitably be the Big Dog. And, Crooked Hillary’s legacy will be as his loving, enabling, wife, and as not the First Woman President (that was probably Obama anyway, having lost First Black President to Clinton).
So, yes, I think that there is a distinct possibility that revenge is very possibly one of the factors driving the arrest and prosecution of Epstein. But if it is, I don’t think that Trump ordered it. More likely, I think, notice came across Barr’s desk about some change in the status of the case, and he thought that it might be beneficial for Trump and the Administration if his department pushed it a bit. Trump delegates - a lot. Maybe too much. And it very clearly appeared in his Helicopter News Conference a couple days ago, that he wasn’t following it very carefully.
Was it Mr. Barr who "made it a point to hire teachers from unconventional backgrounds"?
If the school was "a progressive haven for the children of artists and writers" could the hiring have been the practice in place?
For the record, many abusers are fully accredited. The idea that a sexual predator has some "tell" of an unconventional background and flamboyant dress is not useful.
BTW, for the conspiracy theorists here, this is boilerplate journalism. The monstrous criminal makes sells papers. Once you run through the leaks and legal filings of the prosecutors, you turn to back story. Funnily enough, the New York Times is acting like a local newspaper for once.
The rolodex of connections that is getting publicized here is totally predictable. It adds the spice of a familiar name and it keeps the story going.
Don't worry. Bill Clinton is not going to get left out of the grinder.
Here's a question: How come it took decades for "Epstein preyed on teen girls in his care" to come out, but, man, we knew Roy Moore got banned from a shopping mall in like, days.
Why are journalists so consistently incurious in the same way?
The question is why did he opt out of a high-level career at that point?
Because the high level careers wanted the credentials? He went to Bear Stearns right from the Dalton School. He got in trouble on a deal with Edgar Bronfman. The Bronfmans sure know how to pick 'em-- one was in on the NXVIM Cult.
Remember when Obama offered Bill Richardson a cabinet position and then recinded the offer? I wonder if it had anything to do with his friendship with Epstein. Epstein was never declared a sex offender in New Mexico, though he had a ranch there.
I also want to say the jump to the idea that "men" gave Epstein passes and boosts seems only about half right. Ghislaine Maxwell sponsored Epstein through social circles and actually rounded up girls for him. Girls found other girls for him. Peggy Siegel was his social booster- she put together parties for him in New York, including the one attended by Katier Couric and Prince Andrew after his conviction. So it was men and women who boosted him.
Interesting article by Andy McCarthy at NRO: Acosta’s Sweetheart Deal Likely to Foreclose Epstein’s SDNY Prosecution. McCarthy points out that the predicate offenses cited in the arrest warrant predate Epstein’s plea agreement. Also, there is the word “globally” somewhere. But most importantly, there would be Double Jeopardy. The SDFL and the SDNY are the same sovereign.
The aspect though that McCarthy doesn’t address is that searches, pursuant to search warrants, were performed at Epstein’s various residences at the time of his arrest. A treasure trove of incriminating evidence appears to have been discovered, including what appears to be kiddie porn. Making things worse, he was apparently a registered sex offender. And that probably means that numerous newer felonies can be charged against him. The question is whether all of that new evidence can be excluded as the fruit of the forbidden tree. And that may resolve down to whether the SDNY AUSAs had a reasonable belief in the legality of their search warrants at the time that they were exited.
The good part though is that this probably won’t protect Epstein’s various residences that the feds have said they would probably seize. They very clearly were utilized in the commission of multiple crimes, and the standard of proof there is by a preponderance of the evidence. And even if the SDFL USA had agreed to limiting civil liability for those old crimes, that likely wouldn’t impact civil liability for later crimes.
The other thing that McCarthy did not cover was that the sweetheart SDFL plea agreement of a decade ago was arguably illegal because it was done without notifying the victims of the crimes, as required by federal law, and the surfacing of that in recent months may have been the green light for the SDNY to pursue charges against Epstein.
"Ghislaine Maxwell sponsored Epstein through social circles and actually rounded up girls for him. Girls found other girls for him."
-- Weinstein had female enablers too, as, I imagine, do most people like Epstein. They have plenty of male ones too, but I'm willing to bet if you want to convince a woman that they'll be perfectly safe meeting with some strange rich guy, sending another woman to make the sales pitch if better than some other guy.
Private schools have different requirements, and it varies from state to state how closely they have to follow public-school teaching credentials.
Eleanor,
"There are no requirements to teach at a private school other than the school is willing to hire you. "
Maybe not in your state, but there are others who do. Here in Washington, for example, it says right in the State Consitution that "It is the paramount duty of the state to make ample provision for the education of all children residing within its borders, without distinction or preference on account of race, color, caste, or sex. The legislature shall provide for a general and uniform system of public schools." So the state feels free, nay actually compelled, to regulate private schools to ensure that they are fulfilling that requirement. In practice, the state Superintendent of Public Instruction's office requires that at least X% of the full-time teaching staff at private schools have a valid state certificate (which does leave room for plenty to be hired w/o a certificate.)
"A famous author to teach a writing course..."
I nominate Flannery O'Connor! ("Everywhere I go I'm asked if I think the university stifles writers. My opinion is that they don't stifle enough of them. There's many a best-seller that could have been prevented by a good teacher.")
It bothers me when people compare Weinstein and Epstein. The principal knock on Weinstein is that he “preyed” on adult actresses who were trying to make it in Hollywood. He held the keys to the kingdom and is accused of exploiting or abusing that advantage. Sure, there are allegations of forcible rape as well. But the overall gist is that he was taking advantage of women who appeared to have wanted something from him and which he was able to give them if they satisfied his sexual demands.
How is that anything like Epstein, who’s accused of operating an underage sex ring to service to rich and powerful, and who may have been blackmailing the rich and powerful to enrich himself or perhaps to advance the interests of a shady intelligence service or even a foreign power. Epstein is accused of abusing children and promoting child prostitution. Some have accused him of distorting global politics and high finance.
Weinstein produced some movies and left a trail of angry actresses in his wake. Even if he raped or assaulted them, his story and his conduct are rather pedestrian by comparison.
Is it because they’re both prominent Jewish New Yorkers accused of sexual misdeeds? Is that it?
@ Bruce Hayden I read McCarthy's article and was a bit bummed. Your explication of what he left out and the effect of the recent court decision on the settlement makes a lot of sense for the actions of SDNY. Thanks.
I wonder how many of Epstein's victims were victims. I'm sure he recruited a lot of these girls from the victim class, that is, those girls from impoverished or abused backgrounds. I've got a sneaking suspicion though that some of his girls came from privileged backgrounds and were just looking to pick up some money. Ghislaine Maxwell didn't hang around slums. This is a subject I can broach in the anonymity of the internet but which will never be said aloud.....Also, it does seem that the most publicized cases of sex crime celebrities have with only a couple of exceptions involved people active in or supportive of Democratic causes. This is something else that you will never hear mentioned
As it turns out, Charley Sheen is a role mode for all super rich celebrities with a crazed enthusiasm for sex. Give him credit. He was never accused of ruining any girl's life. The secret to successful sex addiction is to engage exclusively with established pornstars. There's no way a porn star is going to credibly give a tear filled interview with Savannah Guthrie and tell how that billionaire ruined her life. And, of course, you don't want to end your days in jail.
"Yes, we Boomers are now doing penance for the sins we so joyfully committed 50 years ago!"
It depends on how you define "it", life, the universe, and everything. They still have shared, shifted responsibility, and enough votes to hide the collateral damage. No regrets.
This reasoning sounds vaguely familiar. It's merely a front hole, a back hole, a top hole, a colorful clump of cells, and everything else is a social construct, a religion, a tradition, a law, a myth that people tell.
Something interesting to note is that the new indictment, in addition to two criminal counts, includes a civil claim for asset forfeiture, and his NYC mansion is the one asset specifically listed. If you read the SDFL Non-Prosecution Agreement, there is no mention whatsoever of civil liability, except for suits by his victims. This means that there should be nothing legally preventing the feds from seizing property of his used in committing his crimes, even if McCarthy is correct that the new criminal charges are barred as Double Jeopardy. And, Epstein is going to have significant problems proving, by a preponderance of the evidence, that his various residences were not used in his various crimes, because they obviously were.
How come it took decades for "Epstein preyed on teen girls in his care" to come out, but, man, we knew Roy Moore got banned from a shopping mall in like, days.
Because the Moore story was a lie made up out of whole cloth that was refuted by the mall's records and the guy that ran mall security at the time.
There was some footage of two grammar school girls in the back seat of a car giving Jim Morrison of The Doors a blowjob (as he stood outside) when he showed up to do a concert in Ohio. One was in sixth grade--12, I guess--and the other in seventh--13. That was the concert where he was arrested later that night for his stage behavior. The film was shot by the high school kid that had taken the girls to the concert.
It was a private school. There are no requirements to teach at a private school other than the school is willing to hire you.
You conflate K-12 and college and they are very different. Dalton is K-12 so let's talk about that first.
As Kirk mentioned, different states have different requirements. Some states require certified/licensed teachers others don't. Some states specify education levels for teachers others don't. Some states have the same requirements for govt and private schools, some don't. These requirements have changed over the years but always in the direction of getting tighter (more requirements for Masters degrees for example. Credits in education.)
I don't know what the NY state (and maybe NY City?) requirements were in the 1970s. I still say that it seems strange to hire a 20 year old, non-degreed, person to teach in a high school. Though looking at the Wikipedia page for Dalton, it is a specifically "progressive" school so maybe they are just different.
Many schools are accredited by 6-7 USDOE approved accreditation agencies. In Dalton's case it would have been the Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools which covers NY and other states plus Puerto Rico. Dalton is not accredited by MS and I don't know if it would have been in the 1970s.
I have a bit of experience because my kids school, (70s and 80s) was accredited by them and they had some requirements for teacher qualifications though I forget the specifics. My kid's school no longer appears on MS list of accredited schools. There are currently only 3 in PR where they used to be many. I was always under the impression that it was a requirement. If it was, it apparently isn't any longer.
In PR, private schools are regulated by the state dept of education. My kids went to Catholic school and the Catholic schools refused, as a matter of principle, to recognize state authority to regulate them academically. (They did allow regulation by fire, health and other agencies)
For colleges and universities the same thing applies. It varies from state to state. My understanding, from some work that I have done with UW-Stout, is that to teach any course at the master's level, one needs a doctorate. My understanding is that this is a state, rather than a school requirement but I might be wrong.
There are no requirements to teach at a private college or university, either. While most schools try to amass credentials, there are times when a person with life experience is hired to teach a course because of his experience. A famous author to teach a writing course, an inventor to teach an engineering class, a successful businessman to teach a class for entrepreneurs.
Yes, I taught my first college class back in 1974 when I was still a student. The school had a program leading to an AS in refrigeration and, as a licensed tech, they hired me to teach some courses. Later I developed and taught the Packaging Technology course in the PUPR Industrial Engineering dept at the masters level. I have no degree in engineering but a lot of experience in packaging.
Also worked with UW-Stout school of packaging helping to develop a course in Packaging Machinery. Would have taught it too if we could have figured out the logistics.
Ann or someone else may have more info but, from my experiences with UW-Stout, I am under the impression that the state requires teachers to have a higher level degree than the students. IOW, since I have a masters, I can teach undergrads but to teach masters level courses I have to have a doctorate. It may be a school policy rather than a state law, though.
That is state law in Puerto Rico. When I taught at the masters level at PUPR, I has required to have someone with a doctorate as co-teacher. ABET, which accredits engineering schools had no problem, just the state Council on Higher Education.
According to S.E.C. and other legal documents unearthed by VANITY FAIR, Epstein may have good reason to keep his past cloaked in secrecy: his real mentor, it might seem, was not Leslie Wexner but Steven Jude Hoffenberg, 57, who, for a few months before the S.E.C. sued to freeze his assets in 1993, was trying to buy the New York Post. He is currently incarcerated in the Federal Medical Center in Devens, Massachusetts, serving a 20-year sentence for bilking investors out of more than $450 million in one of the largest Ponzi schemes in American history. ...
In 1987, Hoffenberg, according to sources, set Epstein up in the offices he still occupies in the Villard House, on Madison Avenue, across a courtyard from the restaurant Le Cirque. Hoffenberg hired his new protégé as a consultant at $25,000 a month, and the relationship flourished. “They traveled everywhere together—on Hoffenberg’s plane, all around the world, they were always together,” says a source. Hoffenberg has claimed that Epstein confided in him, saying, for example, that he had left Bear Stearns in 1981 after he was discovered executing “illegal operations.” ...
Much of Epstein’s work is related to cleaning up, tightening budgets, and efficiencies. One person who worked for Wexner and who saw a contract drawn up between the two men says Epstein is involved in “everything, not just a little here, a little there. Everything!” In addition, he says, “Wexner likes having a hatchet man…. Whenever there is dirty work to be done he’d stick Jeffrey on it…. He has a reputation for being ruthless but he gets the job done.”
Epstein has evidently been asked to fire personal-staff members when needed. “He was that mysterious person that everyone was scared to death of,” says a former employee.
"The school had a program leading to an AS in refrigeration and, as a licensed tech, they hired me to teach some courses"
Just a note: here in WA at least, the public K-12 schools can also do this, under a "vocational certification". It's somewhat common in the more complex physical arts (e.g. pottery, glassblowing.) You'd never be able to hire under this basis for any core academic subjects because there's no shortage of Ed schools turning out certified Language, History, Math, Science, etc teachers.
In 7th grade I had an eclectic male art teacher (1969). He would have us go out into the school yard and lay on the ground and draw the world around us. He spent his time talking to the girls about how the large veins in his arms meant he was a manly specimen, they loved it. I was not too attuned to sex at that point but it is a safe bet he was groping them in the supply room. The truth will never surface because Trump was not involved.
I know this isn't the same as morality but don't you think that for a 14-year-old there would be a qualitative difference between what might happen with a twenty-year-old teacher or a twenty-five-year-old rock star encountered at a party and what might happen with a fifty or sixty-year-old who's intending to rape and and prefers to do it to very young teenagers. Doesn't it seem that one might be sort of crazy and exciting however wrong and stupid; and the other a painful, degrading encounter with a horrible kind of man? And doesn't it seem that Epstein repeatedly tricked fairly young girls into these horrible encounters? And got weirder as he got older? And belongs in jail - end of story.
And none of this story is about consenting adults. That is a whole other group.
Are you serious Althouse? Your generation condoned boffing anything that moved. It's your peer group that sowed the depraved mores of today. You've done a real bang-up job.
"One of the biggest social disasters was the Left encouraging/promoting fathers to leave families, replaced by welfare checks." Or, its core success. Depending on how you look at it.
Speaking of your favorite rock stars and the children in their company, here's Gavin McInnes with the lowdown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixa4Vl7Zu8s
It's fair to say that schools and all kinds of other institutions and fields have gone downhill since incumbents and political operators gained powers to admit or deny entry. Mostly at the hands of empty-headed racialists.
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पोस्ट्स
१७६ टिप्पण्या:
"Welcome Back, Kotter" was on TV from 1975 to 1979.
Guggenbuhl-Craig says borderline pedophiles make good teachers because they can sustain an interest in what the kid is saying where a normal adult tunes out.
He looks like a creeper to me. Has that Pennywise bad clown vibe. Can only imagine the depravity at the bottom of this story.
Gotta love the 1970's. The sweet spot in the post sexual revolution before Aids and such
I don't trust guys who really, really like working with kids. Sorry.
I find the fact that the current Attorney General's father was Headmaster of a school for the elites fascinating. Just how inbred are our "elites?" According to wikipedia Donald Barr served in the OSS and is the son of a psychologist and an economist, both from Manhattan.
Served. in. the. OSS.
Probably where he whet his appetite for young girls.
I also find this interesting, that $77 Million dollar NYC townhouse, "(a gift from Victoria’s Secret founder Leslie Wexner)."
Who the hell "gifts" a $77 Million dollar property?
LOL! Yes! As soon as I saw the picture I started humming that bass line, then I scrolled to your comment. Epstein!
I hate whataboutism. But to get to the core of what has happened don't we have to try to get to causes and conditions?
My self proclaimed moral betters knew what was going on. The power people knew young girls were being sacrificed.
Hollywood has been a codified sexual assualt immunity zone since the inception of moving pictures...and all the power people actively enabled all the abuse.
Oprha Winfery is the most powerful women in media on the globe. I am to believe she was totaly unaware of Weinstien.
With Epstien, there is a list of attendees to the bash he through when he got out to jail. Katie Couric and Stephenopolous in attendence. Helping a convicted pedophile celebrate his crimes. But today, Acosta is the evil scapegoat.
Fathers need to take back the protection of their children. Epstien recovering from a good beating would have slowed him down, until a father actualy killed him. The get aquited by a jury envoking jury nullification, because law enforement and justice are too corrupt.
What does Jeffrey Epstein like best about thirty nine year olds?
There's thirty of them.
“Who the hell "gifts" a $77 Million dollar property?”
People who are being blackmailed?
Wow, these girls noticed it then, yet the Clintons did not years later?
I thought first of Woody Allen's "Manhattan" rather than Welcome Back Kotter
William Barr must resign!
Like decriminalizing the border and marijuana
This problem could be solved by lowering the age of consent to 14.
Its the era of the lowered bar.
Was it legal for a person to teach without a degree in those days? How did he get a teaching license/certificate from the state dept of education? Was that required at the time?
Did he have any education courses or training?
A Master degree in education is probably the most useless degree going but is required in many states to maintain certification as a teacher.
Apparently not back then.
John Henry
I bet Epstein is wearing Angel Flight jeans and platform shoes
Blogger iowan2 said...
Fathers need to take back the protection of their children. Epstien recovering from a good beating would have slowed him down, until a father actualy killed him. The get aquited by a jury envoking jury nullification, because law enforement and justice are too corrupt.
Some people need killing.
The master's requirement is relatively new. Last 20 years or so. I doubt it was required anywhere in the 70s and didn't mean to imply it was.
John Henry
Sorry, I don't trust anyone's recollection of him as a teacher. The desire to foreshadow for the NYT is too tempting.
Why do you think it was only men who gave Epstein a boost?
was willing to violate norms in his encounters with girls
Gasp[!]. That statement would've been a compliment in, oh, 1968 or whatever.
"Fathers need to take back the protection of their children. Epstien recovering from a good beating would have slowed him down, until a father actualy killed him. The get aquited by a jury envoking jury nullification, because law enforement and justice are too corrupt."
Provocative, but on the mark.
One of the biggest social disasters was the Left encouraging/promoting fathers to leave families, replaced by welfare checks.
Epstein is great at math. The fact that he doesn’t have a college degree - much less from a college of education - is meaningless to me. The best teachers I had were alll in law school.
Strange is it not, that the Media refuses to write stories about Horndog Clintoon's numerous visits to Pedophile Island? Instead, they dig up some little factoid that the Attorney General Barr's father ran the school where Democratic Party Luminary, Jeff Epstein, taught? Yes, that's another story the Media refuses to tell: Epstein's connections to the Dem Party and the Clintoon Crime Foundation. The modern media in the US is the functional equivalent of Pravda
Connecting to another thread
https://biography.jrank.org/pages/666/Barr-Donald-1921-2004.html
The barrs were like the Hartletts from the west wing, but no one as insufferable as lawtence o'Donnell. Hasn't choate and st Paul had actual scandals
"Who were the people who boosted Epstein in his early life? What the hell was going on? It's not just about Epstein's harmful expression of his own sexuality, it's the other men who gave him not just passes but boosts."
How did you get from "people who boosted Epstein in his early life" to "the other men who gave him passes?" It sounds to me like there were a lot of men AND women who gave him passes as well as a number of men AND women who actively facilitated his predatory nature later in life. This is a criminal matter and, there were plenty of abetters around of both sexes.
Inga,
Where did Horndog Clintoon whet his appetite for young girls? (This is not a trick question)
It was a private school. There are no requirements to teach at a private school other than the school is willing to hire you. There are no requirements to teach at a private college or university, either. While most schools try to amass credentials, there are times when a person with life experience is hired to teach a course because of his experience. A famous author to teach a writing course, an inventor to teach an engineering class, a successful businessman to teach a class for entrepreneurs. While I have no idea what experience Epstein might have had to make him qualified to teach math, it was at a time when math teachers were hard to find. Women who were talented at math were beginning to find the doors to other math-oriented careers open to them. The pool of math and science teachers has never recovered from the exodus of women. At that time the government was offering financial incentives to people willing to go to school to become math and science teachers. Ten percent of student loans forgiven for each year you taught up to 50% of your loan.
St Paul is where both Kerry and Mueller went, of course choate was JFKs alma mater.
“One of the biggest social disasters was the Left encouraging/promoting fathers to leave families, replaced by welfare checks.”
Oh please. So simplistic. The men who wouldn’t marry the women who they impregnated didn’t do so because the woman got a welfare check. You think he cared? If anything a welfare check might keep him around. Plus if you think that no Rightists weren’t involved in this depravity you are being ridiculous.
“Where did Horndog Clintoon whet his appetite for young girls? (This is not a trick question)”
Who knows? However I believe Clinton preferred adult women to prey on. Where did Trump get obsessed by young girls? Who knows how these minds work.
Did the kids learn any math?
And how well have they used what they learned!
Who were the people who boosted Epstein in his early life? What the hell was going on? It's not just about Epstein's harmful expression of his own sexuality, it's the other men who gave him not just passes but boosts.
Why the shift from "people" to "men"?
No woman must be made to feel bad about, or responsible for, anything, ever.
This is just in recent times:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/03/st-pauls-owen-labrie-rape-trial/amp
Will progressives make up their minds, is debauchery liberating or is that a repressed point of view
I don't trust guys who really, really like working with kids. Sorry.
Fuck you.
"Plus if you think that no Rightists weren’t involved in this depravity you are being ridiculous."
I was a Cultist, but now I'm a Rightist......
The entire welfare state created by LBJ's War on Poverty in the 60s, had the effect of destroying nuclear families by replacing fathers with government handouts. Go read anything by Thomas Sowell.
“One of the biggest social disasters was the Left encouraging/promoting fathers to leave families, replaced by welfare checks.”
Oh please. So simplistic. The men who wouldn’t marry the women who they impregnated didn’t do so because the woman got a welfare check. You think he cared? If anything a welfare check might keep him around.
Are you that ignorant? The government gives more money to single mothers than they do married mothers. The more children, the more money.
Oh please. So simplistic. The men who wouldn’t marry the women who they impregnated didn’t do so because the woman got a welfare check. You think he cared?
Given that you are simple minded, Inga one has to keep it simple with you. Yet, you still don't get it.
The welfare system (e.g., ADC) replaced the need for marriage. Marriage has traditionally been the way people achieve enough financial stability to raise kids. With welfare, many women feel they don't need a father around to help support the kids. The guys who are getting these women pregnant don't give a shit one way or another.
The resulting pathology is the curse of our times.
"Why the shift from "people" to "men"?"
Excellent catch. Isn't Epstein's chief pimp his socialite girlfriend, Ghislaine Maxwell?
Also women getting better paying jobs increased the divorce rate. Those dirty liberal capitalist pigs.
a successful businessman to teach a class for entrepreneurs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSSSPVPB4zI
Within my lifetime, we moved from "sex will liberate you" to "sex will kill you."
An interesting and goofy cycle that must have been repeated thousands of times in human history.
The early 70s were the height of the "sex will liberate you" hysteria. Anybody who abstained from the liberation was "uptight."
The AIDS epidemic was the first bomb in the "sex will kill you" hysteria.
Although, oddly, the people who threw the bomb were gay men, now lionized as our cultural heroes and moral betters.
The chicken hawks are still harvesting the chickens at the Greenwich Village subway stop, I assure you. Pedophilia is on open display in the Village for any of you who would like to walk around and take a look. But the victims are young men.
Watch out for (1) youth coaches (esp little league and volleyball) and (2) department store Santa Clauses. Also, as a general rule, beware of (3) male OB/GYN docs. Just sayin'.
Frenchie
Men didn’t marry these women because they didn’t want to. Women most likely did not stop from marrying because of a puny welfare check. The onus is on the MAN who didn’t want responsibility of a family. Welfare had precious little to do with it. Those of you who should know better seem to be as ignorant of human interaction as a monkey in a troop of monkeys.
In terms of high schools the word 'elite' has two disparate meanings: Schools that are elite in the sense that they're expensive, and those where you have to be smart and/or talented to get in. Thus, for example, New York's Bronx High School of Science numbers among its alumni seven Nobel laureates in physics, whereas Dalton has graduated such intellectual luminaries as Chevy Chase and Anderson Cooper. As a friend of mine once observed, "You could sell people dog shit if only you'd price it high enough."
Mr. Kotter as the cool teacher's interactions with Vinnie and the boys was the fodder for sit com gold. But at least in college in the 60s, the defining trait of the cool teacher beyond long hair was his open flirtatiousness with female students.
Matt yglesias'00, and Christian Slater, 84 I think, there are others.
Those of you who should know better seem to be as ignorant of human interaction as a monkey in a troop of monkeys.
Inga, your blabbering just keeps getting nuttier.
You're easily the most incomprehensible, jabbering loon on this site, and I mean without regard to political orientation.
I think you've even got Ritmo beat.
Obviously, he was hired because he was charming and very smart and good at math and science. The 70s were full of that kind of behavior. And no one seemed too upset about it. In American Graffiti a teacher is making out with a student, but is presented positively as a voice of wisdom when he tells Dreyfus to go out and take a chance.
We had a male teacher in his late 20s who was too friendly with the junior/sophomore girls - but I don't remember the HS administrators doing anything about it.
He wasnt a grad, but he would have been the class of 87.
Gabe Kaplan, jOhn travolta = least funniest people ever in a comedy.
The chickens at the Village subway stop present the difficulty with being so morally outraged by this stuff.
It looks like they want to be there, and they probably do.
I suspect the same was true of the high school girls and Epstein. A certain number of them were excited about partying with him.
My guess is that in both cases, sexual abuse in the home accounts for this phenomenon.
Inga stumbles onto a partial truism:
"The onus is on the MAN who didn’t want responsibility of a family"
Yes, I agree. It was the synergy between 2 major bad policies: (1) the sexual revolution (sex without family responsibility) and (2) the creation of the welfare state that, mostly in the inner cities, destroyed the work ethic and social fabric. These trends combined to wreck many nuclear families - resulting in a lotta lost, impoverished, and homeless folks.
How about, Please go read some Thomas Sowell.
Technically, like girls 14-15 isn't "pedophilia" since they aren't children. I've known plenty of 14-15 girls who could pass for 18. But we need to draw the line somewhere, and 16 seems like a good place.
Inga is so stupid
Inga responds: No Im not
Oh brother. I prefer male OBs. They actually like delivering babies instead of making political statements about womb autonomy.
Shouting thomas says: Yes you are.
Think back to the movie Manhattan. Woody's girlfriend in that movie is a student at Dalton. Nobody blinked an eye at the relationship. These were the kind of people who sent their kids to Dalton. The past is a different place. Maybe Woody pulled strings to get him his gig. Epstein could serve as his scout. Maybe some of the parents thought it would be a good thing if the their kids first experience was with a personable twenty year old teacher.
And so it goes. The liberal and the lonely conservatives.
Maybe some of the parents thought it would be a good thing if the their kids first experience was with a personable twenty year old teacher.
Latchkey kids of rich career obsessed parents are very common in Manhattan.
Also women getting better paying jobs increased the divorce rate. Those dirty liberal capitalist pigs.
I agree, Howard. Yet, the issue is not the divorce rate, but the failure to marry rate.
What percentage of kids are born without a father in the house? Compare that to 50 years ago. That is not progress.
Think of him more like the talented mr. Ripley, a sociopath let loose on the quiet plain,
I don't remember reading any charge that Epstein "forced" these young girls into anything; he just offered them money, and they took it. His pimp, Ghislaine Maxwell, seems to have been very talented in spotting the girls most likely to take the bait.
To be clear, I am pretty much a pre-war, small-town, Norwegian Lutheran, and did not know all these perversions even existed until reading about them on this blog and others in later years. It is knowledge I could have done without, and in no way do I want to give an impression that I approve of any of this kind of behavior.
But I do wonder about the media hurrahing, and am as sceptical of these girls blubbering on TV as I am of any other women I see blubbering on TV about whatever. They just aren't that talented actresses.
Men didn’t marry these women because they didn’t want to.
Sure, for many, or most, of them this is true. Why buy the cow when you get all the milk you want for free?
Women most likely did not stop from marrying because of a puny welfare check.
Explain why the illegitimacy rates for all races rose dramatically in the 1960's.
The onus is on the MAN who didn’t want responsibility of a family.
No the onus is on the women who started allowing access to sex without demanding a commitment to marry.
Welfare had precious little to do with it.
Welfare and the idea of free love were the exact causes of the rise in single motherhood.
This is far from the only irregularity in Epstein's career. He made partner at Bear Stearn's in four years. That's a great deal more unusual than landing a teaching job at Dalton. How did that happen? Epstein has some unusual skills and not just in math and sex.....Is there are any pressure on Cyrus Vance to resign. Epstein got a lot of special treatment in NYC. How about Katie Couric and Stephanopoulos? Does accepting Epstein's hospitality influence their coverage (or rather non-coverage) of his case. Will they be called out on it? Why was Ms. Maxwell never charged with a crime.....There are a lot of questions. One of them is why are only Republicans held accountable for their Epstein connections?
Women most likely did not stop from marrying because of a puny welfare check.
Certain segments of society were told not to marry so they could get a bigger welfare check.
I’m on the pill. Oops.
Inga covering for Bill Clinton who had 27 visits to Epstein's island, but accuses President Trump, who has zero island visits of being interested in little girls.
Inga is why men are justified in calling certain women 'cunts'. She shames women everywhere by her mean-spirited diversions and takes on current events. Inga doesn't stand for women's rights and justice. Before she can take a 'moral' stance on any subject she needs to know the political persuasions of all those involved. She is more than happy to rely on half-truths and outright fabrications, wild speculations and baseless conjecturing to support her fascistic worldview; especially when the facts point out how ultimately depraved the people that she supports are. I guess part of that is a subconscious awareness of her own flaccid intellectuality and inability to form and express rational thought.
I hope that the fault for her lies in Alzheimers and that the good Lord will treat her amorality with mercy.
William Barr's father hired Epstein. Epstein flirted with the girls at William Barr's father's school, then went on to be a notorious pedophile. Donald Trump chose William Barr to be his AG. See there? The conclusion is obvious. That goddam Trump!
But we need to draw the line somewhere, and 16 seems like a good place.
Careful, I believe it's 18 in most states.
What are you people, goddamn blind?
It's the fucking leisure suit!
Blogger Francisco D said...
Also women getting better paying jobs increased the divorce rate. Those dirty liberal capitalist pigs.
I agree, Howard. Yet, the issue is not the divorce rate, but the failure to marry rate.
What percentage of kids are born without a father in the house? Compare that to 50 years ago. That is not progress.
I agree. Hey, maybe that high fiber diet is working, Thanks! Now that I no longer sap and impurify my precious bodily solids, my head is much clearer now.
Perhaps this has already been mentioned but according to the Daily Beast (take of that what you will) Barr’s father had left Dalton before Epstein was hired.
“In 1974, Dalton was run by headmaster Donald Barr—father of Attorney General William Barr, whose Justice Department recently began a review of Epstein’s 2007 non-prosecution agreement for the Palm Beach child sexual assault charges. Writers have noted the interesting coincidence. However, Donald Barr resigned in turmoil in February of 1974 (according to the March 14, 1974 issue of The Daltonian) which was seven months before Jeffrey Epstein began teaching there that fall. While it is possible that Donald Barr may have hired Epstein, if he made personnel decisions long in advance, the Dalton School lost four math teachers (according to The Daltonian) prior to the 1974-75 school year. Therefore the school may have hired Epstein, in part, out of an urgent need to fill vacant positions—even though Epstein did not have a college degree.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffrey-epstein-dodged-questions-about-sex-with-his-dalton-prep-school-students?ref=scroll
I don't remember reading any charge that Epstein "forced" these young girls into anything
One of the news stories quoted a woman who said when she was 14, he forcibly penetrated her over her protests.
Gabe Kaplan was doing a standup gig on a cruise ship in about 2000 when I saw him. Now, cruise ships are not exactly the Big Time, and Gabe seemed to be down on his luck. He got lost a couple of times in his routine, but seemed OK when schmoozing with the pax after the show.
Gabe Kaplan was doing a standup gig on a cruise ship in about 2000 when I saw him. Now, cruise ships are not exactly the Big Time, and Gabe seemed to be down on his luck. He got lost a couple of times in his routine, but seemed OK when schmoozing with the pax after the show.
He spends most of his time trying to play poker these days.
David B,
What is the evidence that epstein is good at math?
If he was such a fantastic quantitative investor, I would agree.
But there seems to be less and less evidence of that every day. His investment business seems to have been a scam.
Other than that is there evidence like hs or college transcripts? People that had business dealings etc?
John Henry
Donald Barr resigned in turmoil in February of 1974 (according to the March 14, 1974 issue of The Daltonian) which was seven months before Jeffrey Epstein began teaching
In other words, there was no point in the NYT in even mentioning him except to slime him (and by extension William Barr and Trump) by creating the false impression that he is some how implicated.
I'm reading Epstein's Wikipedia page:
"Epstein was born in 1953 in Brooklyn, New York to parents Paula (nee Stolofsky, 1918-2004) and Seymour G. Epstein (1916-1991). Epstein's parents were married in 1952, shortly before his birth. Paula was a homemaker and Seymour Epstein worked for the New York City Department of Parks and Recreation as a groundskeeper and gardner [sic]. Jeffrey Epstein is the oldest of two siblings. He grew up in Coney Island, New York. Epstein is Jewish. In 1967, Epstein attended the National Music Camp at the Interlochen Center for the Arts.He graduated in 1969 from Lafayette High School at age 16 having skipped two grades. Later that year, he attended classes at Cooper Union until he changed colleges in 1971. In the fall of 1971, he attended the Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences at New York University, but left without receiving a degree in 1974. Epstein taught calculus and physics at the Dalton School in Manhattan from 1974 to 1976."
From the Wikipedia article on Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences at New York University: "The mathematics department is consistently ranked in the United States as #1 in applied mathematics."
So, I'm guessing he was over-the-top brilliant and he didn't need more time in college to be OVER qualified to teach math to rich-kid highschoolers. The question is why did he opt out of a high-level career at that point?
Welcome Back is exactly what played in my head and good catch on the Epstein connection! LOL
Epstein is obviously extremely charming, particularly on casual acquaintance. He appears to be a math whiz. I read that Ace Greenburg's kid (a son, I think) had Epstein as a math teacher, and Ace hired him at Bear Stearns, or something like that.
Financial and business reporting in the media is so lousy that you never understand how someone made a fortune. Instead, you get a lot of warmed-over speculation that is worthless because it is gossip. No one who reads the press knows how Epstein made his money.
What is remarkable is that he was not shunned after his guilty plea. Couric and Stephanopoulos went to his coming out party? Cyrus Vance's office tried to downgrade Epstein's status as a sex offender? I think there are pictures of Epstein with Prince Andrew after he got out of jail. Epstein swung a big bat socially in Manhattan even after his jail trip.
My current feeling is that Acosta has already paid the biggest penalty that anyone other than Epstein is going suffer from this. Isn't anyone in the press curious about all those trips that Clinton reportedly took with Epstein? What was Alan Dershowitz doing on that plane, even if he was Epstein's lawyer? People are going to run and hide from this, and the media appear to be interested only in any Republicans they can drag into the picture.
@Narciso,
Nice reference to The Talented Mr. Ripley! .
I think that captures young Epstein on his ascent to "billionaire" status.
Welcome back,
Your dreams were your ticket out.
Welcome back,
To that same old place that you laughed about.
Well the names have all changed since you hung around,
But those dreams have remained and they're turned around.
Who'd have thought they'd lead ya (Who'd have thought they'd lead ya)
Back here where we need ya (Back here where we need ya)
Yeah we tease him a lot cause we've got him on the spot, welcome back,
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.
Society has always relied upon women to control reproduction. Smart, responsible women (the ones that societies want reproducing) needed to be selective in choosing their bedmates because the consequences of her poor decision would fall solely upon her and her child.
Birth control freed us up by minimizing the risks associated with sating our sexual urges, thus making selectivity only an issue in finding a long term mate. This should have been a net gain for society except welfare added an incentive for women in the lower economic strata to mate and produce so that they become eligible for welfare and housing support - allowing them to move out of their overcrowded, shitty hell-hole of publicly-provided apartment in the projects and start their own overcrowded, shitty hell-hole apartment in the projects of their own.
We gave away our power for the sake of fun and convenience and thereby were derelict in our duty.
You own one pedophile island and you're labeled for life.
So you’re saying the Epstein conspiracy not only includes Trump and his attorney general but the attorney general’s father?
One of the news stories quoted a woman who said when she was 14, he forcibly penetrated her over her protests.
When she was 15, after two years of giving Epstein "massages" and watching him masturbate. and then she breaks down into blubbering tears, so Savannah Guthrie had to tactfully stop prying.
Pay attention, and keep your eye on the ball!
And with all the revelations we have had about behavior at now all the network headquarters - including Fox - don't tell me that these women anchors do not recognize this for what it is. They are just looking at younger, penny ante, versions of themselves.
Epstein was born Jan. 20 1953 in Brooklyn, NY.
The day Ike was inaugurated. That's why the crap will all land on Republicans.
"Where did Trump get obsessed by young girls? ".
He seems like too much of a tit guy to go too young. Though I know there are exceptional girls.
But neither does he seem like the type to go party on some other rich guy's jet.
He's rich and has his own jet and his own retinue.
'He was goofy and like a kid himself,'
Just what you want in a teacher [eye roll]. The high school teachers I respected and learned from were both strict and very adult. Some were the same ones my mother had, so they were old. OTOH, some who thought themselves cool and who were lax on classroom order were actually laughed at behind their backs. Mr. L---, a male who taught American Lit, was thusly ineffective. Someone hung a sign over his classroom door that said, "L---'s Zoo". Another of that type was arrested for indecent liberties.
Both parents and teachers should act like grownups.
So, I'm guessing he was over-the-top brilliant and he didn't need more time in college to be OVER qualified to teach math to rich-kid highschoolers. The question is why did he opt out of a high-level career at that point?
1974 was a rotten year on Wall Street, the worst since the Depression. Dalton gave him a better entree. Poor Martha Stewart started as a boiler-room stock jobber.
From Althouse's cite:
"He grew up in Coney Island, New York. Epstein is Jewish. In 1967, Epstein attended the National Music Camp at the Interlochen Center for the Arts.He graduated in 1969 from Lafayette High School at age 16 having skipped two grades."
Uh-oh, I detect the Philip Roth syndrome. Epstein prolly read "Portnoy's Complaint" a few too many times - then spent his entire life trying to live it.
One guy as a teacher preys on high school girls -- takes decades to get a semblance of a comeuppance. Good thing he didn't become a Republican and be appointed to the Supreme Court, or people might have come out and said something sooner!
Any musician who was involved in the rock scene in the early 70s (like me) knows that underage girls flocked to the drug and sex parties and begged to be included.
You could throw them out as many times as you liked and they just kept coming back. Many of them lied about their ages and carried fake IDs.
If they couldn’t crash your scene, they went elsewhere until they found willing hosts.
I suspect that most of Epstein’s girls had a similar m.o.
"I don't trust guys who really, really like working with kids."
-- I like working with kids; I really enjoyed the few times I've been at a game store doing board game day and got to teach kids Magic or some other board game -- but I am perfectly aware of this sort of bias, and therefore have never made myself available as a mentor or Big Brother sort of group.
"Helping a convicted pedophile celebrate his crimes."
-- I mean, Roman Polanski should have made you aware that's how it was going to be. It's also why, as crazy and impossible stupid as the Cosmic Ping Pong Podesta email conspiracy theory was, people thought it was possible -- because there are some high profile, rich people who DO seem to think that raping children is, eh, OK, if the person doing it is artistic or rich enough with the right political boxes checked.
Wait -- Barr WASN'T the guy that hired him? Layers of fact checkers.
“This is far from the only irregularity in Epstein's career. He made partner at Bear Stearn's in four years. That's a great deal more unusual than landing a teaching job at Dalton. How did that happen? Epstein has some unusual skills and not just in math and sex.....”
One thing to keep in mind there is that making (junior) partner at a place like Bear Stearns very likely had a big money angle. What we call in the legal business “rain making”. If you are bringing in a lot more money than the next guy, you are very likely going to make partner faster. Far faster than if you are some sort of math genius. So, the question should probably be rephrased as “how did Epstein start bringing in so much money so quickly that they would make him a partner so quickly”. And knowing what we know now about the guy, some obvious possibilities present themselves.
Epstein may not have started with blackmail. His success at Bears Stearns May have been as simple that while other salesmen were treating their clients to golf, and maybe Caribbean cruises, Epstein may have offered sex with slightly underaged young women. For some of a slightly pervy nature, it was win/win - they had Bear Stearns handling their money, and were able to dip their wicks in a way that their spouses could never track. Dalton, and former Dalton, girls may have been an advantage here, as they came from at least close to the same social echelon as their Johns.
Assuming this to have been the way things started, everything else is history, with him gradually working up to volume procurement of underaged females for use by his clientele, as he worked up from the rich to the very rich in the pervy men whom he was selling to on the other side of the equation. And at some point he probably figured that he needed insurance against his pervy clientele, if, for example, there were ultimately some trading losses, and that was when he started photographing them. And, maybe he finally did need the insurance against a client, and realized that blackmail was maybe even more lucrative as a source of income than were commissions on managing money.
All theoretical, of course.
"People are going to run and hide from this, and the media appear to be interested only in any Republicans they can drag into the picture."
That is exactly what Ann did. Neutral my arse.
It's interesting how 14 year olds don't have the moral agency to consent to sex, but they do have the moral agency to consent to having their sex changed.
Shouting Thomas said...
Any musician who was involved in the rock scene in the early 70s (like me) knows that underage girls flocked to the drug and sex parties and begged to be included"
Think of the Stones song "Stray Cat Blues." Mick didn't want her ID. I'm sure the guys in Led Zep and other big acts weren't fussy about ages either back in the '70's. Teenage groupies were part of the rock and roll lifestyle, as glorified by Rolling Stone magazine.
Bringing back memories of mid ‘70s high school for me. A number of younger male teachers who enjoyed being around the high school girls. No idea if it went any farther than mildly inappropriate flirtation. But still noticeable. I probably assumed these men were older than they actually were. But they had their groupies.
I never underestimate the depravity and insularity of connected NYC denizens. That includes politicians, finance, media, private schools and non-profits.
Yes!!!! As I looked at the photograph, I did immediately think of Welcome Back, Kotter, but I was seeing Gabe Kaplan as Kotter, not the students. The only thing missing was Kaplan's mustache.
fwiw - more epstein tidbits?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc-uysS6Tlw
Ron Winkleheimer wrote:
"I find the fact that the current Attorney General's father was Headmaster of a school for the elites fascinating. Just how inbred are our "elites?"
It is fascinating, but in this case I don't think it necessarily a coincidence. Perhaps Barr remembers hearing stories about Epstein from his father, and once he was the AG again, decided to have someone take another look at this guy.
@Exile,
"Think of the Stones song "Stray Cat Blues." Mick didn't want her ID."
Yes! And let's add Mick's view on race to this sexual stew:
Gold coast slave ship bound for cotton fields
Sold in a market down in New Orleans
Skydog slaver knows he's doing alright
Hear him whip the women just around midnight
Brown sugar how come you taste so good?
Brown sugar just like a young girl should
Drums beating, cold English blood runs hot
Lady of the house wonderin' where it's gonna stop
House boy knows that he's doing alright
You shoulda heard him just around midnight
Brown sugar how come you taste so good, now?
Brown sugar just like a young girl should, now
Rolling Stones, "Brown Sugar" (1971)
Yes, we Boomers are now doing penance for the sins we so joyfully committed 50 years ago!
I have the feeling that's a normal part of the human life cycle, too, repeated every generation.
Edgar Allen Poe married Jerry Lee Lewis's 13 year-old cousin. Or was it the other way around?
So how does Roseanne Barr fit into this web?
It's interesting how 14 year olds don't have the moral agency to consent to sex, but they do have the moral agency to consent to having their sex changed.
They can get abortions without their parents permission or knowledge also.
Trans-social. He was forward-looking for his time, with aspiration for a less strict, less labels, less judgmental, progressive liberal social climate. #LoveWins
14 year olds don't have the moral agency to consent to sex... They can get abortions without their parents permission or knowledge also.
That's because they don't have the mental capacity to understand the human reproductive process and they have been indoctrinated with the twilight quasi-religious belief of shared or shifted responsibility... barefoot, taxable, and available.
And, it does appear that the story that Bill Barr's dad hired Epstein is another lie after all. Yes, layers and layers of fact checkers......sheesh.
Lots of important questions need to be asked right now. This is not one of them.
For instance, the Palm Beach County prosecutor at the time, Krischer. See www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/274269/democrat-who-let-jeffrey-epstein-get-away-daniel-greenfield ... Krischer spends two years going after Rush Limbaugh, but not interested in nailing Epstein. WTF?
Why do you think it was only men who gave Epstein a boost?
#MeToo #HerToo #SheProgressed, which was... is clearly not limited to reproductive rites.
Maybe this late-coming brouhaha is not political operation, but just a savvy tort law firm deciding that Jeffrey Epstein was a long neglected gold mine lode?
"Plus if you think that no Rightists weren’t involved in this depravity you are being ridiculous."
Libertarian? Anarchist, in the left-right nexus, perhaps.
No diversity. No color judgments. #PrinciplesMatter
Feels like the Democrats are desperate to tie this to Trump.
Barr’s Fathers relation is a huge stretch.
Powerline linked to a Washington Post article about how Acosta’s strategy at labor was playing it safe. Democrats would have been smart to leave him alone, but it seems they are flailing around at any target to distract, so the huge pink elephants in the room, Clinton and other major democratic supporters relations with Epstein, become old news and buried.
“It is fascinating, but in this case I don't think it necessarily a coincidence. Perhaps Barr remembers hearing stories about Epstein from his father, and once he was the AG again, decided to have someone take another look at this guy”
Or, maybe this is just low hanging fruit for going after the Clintons in particular, and the Deep State in general. Fairly recently, Crooked Hillary was still trying to take the lead in claiming Obstruction of Justice by Trump, secure in the knowledge that she would never pay the price for the Steele Dossier (supposedly constructed with Russian government help) that she and her captive DNC had commissioned and paid for. Not only did the Deep State let her skate on her thousands of email related felonies, they also never questioned that they were being used by her against the man who had deprived her of the prize that she was due - the Presidency. It was hers, Trump stole it from her, and the Deep State continues to make him pay for that presumption.
The pressure is going to be enormous to kill this. If it isn’t killed, there is a good chance that Bill Clinton’s legacy for the history books is going to be as a feckless, reckless, pedophile. And other prominent Democrats are going to be similarly exposed, though, as usual, Bill Clinton will inevitably be the Big Dog. And, Crooked Hillary’s legacy will be as his loving, enabling, wife, and as not the First Woman President (that was probably Obama anyway, having lost First Black President to Clinton).
So, yes, I think that there is a distinct possibility that revenge is very possibly one of the factors driving the arrest and prosecution of Epstein. But if it is, I don’t think that Trump ordered it. More likely, I think, notice came across Barr’s desk about some change in the status of the case, and he thought that it might be beneficial for Trump and the Administration if his department pushed it a bit. Trump delegates - a lot. Maybe too much. And it very clearly appeared in his Helicopter News Conference a couple days ago, that he wasn’t following it very carefully.
Was it Mr. Barr who "made it a point to hire teachers from unconventional backgrounds"?
If the school was "a progressive haven for the children of artists and writers" could the hiring have been the practice in place?
For the record, many abusers are fully accredited. The idea that a sexual predator has some "tell" of an unconventional background and flamboyant dress is not useful.
BTW, for the conspiracy theorists here, this is boilerplate journalism. The monstrous criminal makes sells papers. Once you run through the leaks and legal filings of the prosecutors, you turn to back story. Funnily enough, the New York Times is acting like a local newspaper for once.
The rolodex of connections that is getting publicized here is totally predictable. It adds the spice of a familiar name and it keeps the story going.
Don't worry. Bill Clinton is not going to get left out of the grinder.
Here's a question: How come it took decades for "Epstein preyed on teen girls in his care" to come out, but, man, we knew Roy Moore got banned from a shopping mall in like, days.
Why are journalists so consistently incurious in the same way?
James Patterson's "Filthy Rich" is on Audible and it is under 8 hours and it is really interesting.
The question is why did he opt out of a high-level career at that point?
Because the high level careers wanted the credentials? He went to Bear Stearns right from the Dalton School. He got in trouble on a deal with Edgar Bronfman. The Bronfmans sure know how to pick 'em-- one was in on the NXVIM Cult.
Remember when Obama offered Bill Richardson a cabinet position and then recinded the offer? I wonder if it had anything to do with his friendship with Epstein. Epstein was never declared a sex offender in New Mexico, though he had a ranch there.
"The question is why did he opt out of a high-level career at that point?"
-- Lots of people do; could be anything. Maybe, at the time, he honestly thought teaching was his calling.
I also want to say the jump to the idea that "men" gave Epstein passes and boosts seems only about half right. Ghislaine Maxwell sponsored Epstein through social circles and actually rounded up girls for him. Girls found other girls for him. Peggy Siegel was his social booster- she put together parties for him in New York, including the one attended by Katier Couric and Prince Andrew after his conviction. So it was men and women who boosted him.
Ghislaine Maxwell sponsored Epstein through social circles and actually rounded up girls for him. Girls found other girls for him.
Shhh! This is supposed to be about toxic masculinity.
Interesting article by Andy McCarthy at NRO: Acosta’s Sweetheart Deal Likely to Foreclose Epstein’s SDNY Prosecution. McCarthy points out that the predicate offenses cited in the arrest warrant predate Epstein’s plea agreement. Also, there is the word “globally” somewhere. But most importantly, there would be Double Jeopardy. The SDFL and the SDNY are the same sovereign.
The aspect though that McCarthy doesn’t address is that searches, pursuant to search warrants, were performed at Epstein’s various residences at the time of his arrest. A treasure trove of incriminating evidence appears to have been discovered, including what appears to be kiddie porn. Making things worse, he was apparently a registered sex offender. And that probably means that numerous newer felonies can be charged against him. The question is whether all of that new evidence can be excluded as the fruit of the forbidden tree. And that may resolve down to whether the SDNY AUSAs had a reasonable belief in the legality of their search warrants at the time that they were exited.
The good part though is that this probably won’t protect Epstein’s various residences that the feds have said they would probably seize. They very clearly were utilized in the commission of multiple crimes, and the standard of proof there is by a preponderance of the evidence. And even if the SDFL USA had agreed to limiting civil liability for those old crimes, that likely wouldn’t impact civil liability for later crimes.
The other thing that McCarthy did not cover was that the sweetheart SDFL plea agreement of a decade ago was arguably illegal because it was done without notifying the victims of the crimes, as required by federal law, and the surfacing of that in recent months may have been the green light for the SDNY to pursue charges against Epstein.
The NYT just tweeted about Epstein's "comeback" tour.
Just like Weiner, huh.
"Ghislaine Maxwell sponsored Epstein through social circles and actually rounded up girls for him. Girls found other girls for him."
-- Weinstein had female enablers too, as, I imagine, do most people like Epstein. They have plenty of male ones too, but I'm willing to bet if you want to convince a woman that they'll be perfectly safe meeting with some strange rich guy, sending another woman to make the sales pitch if better than some other guy.
John Henry,
Private schools have different requirements, and it varies from state to state how closely they have to follow public-school teaching credentials.
Eleanor,
"There are no requirements to teach at a private school other than the school is willing to hire you. "
Maybe not in your state, but there are others who do. Here in Washington, for example, it says right in the State Consitution that "It is the paramount duty of the state to make ample provision for the education of all children residing within its borders, without distinction or preference on account of race, color, caste, or sex. The legislature shall provide for a general and uniform system of public schools." So the state feels free, nay actually compelled, to regulate private schools to ensure that they are fulfilling that requirement. In practice, the state Superintendent of Public Instruction's office requires that at least X% of the full-time teaching staff at private schools have a valid state certificate (which does leave room for plenty to be hired w/o a certificate.)
"A famous author to teach a writing course..."
I nominate Flannery O'Connor! ("Everywhere I go I'm asked if I think the university stifles writers. My opinion is that they don't stifle enough of them. There's many a best-seller that could have been prevented by a good teacher.")
Why "believe" when Google is just a mouse-click away?
Of the 50 states + DC, in 32 age of consent is 16, in 8 it's 17, and only 11 have 18. Here in WA we also have special rules for teachers and students that overrides the basic 16 year old age of consent.
Also, James Patterson says it is unclear whether it was Greenberg's son or daughter who convinced dad to bring him to Bear Stearns.
It bothers me when people compare Weinstein and Epstein. The principal knock on Weinstein is that he “preyed” on adult actresses who were trying to make it in Hollywood. He held the keys to the kingdom and is accused of exploiting or abusing that advantage. Sure, there are allegations of forcible rape as well. But the overall gist is that he was taking advantage of women who appeared to have wanted something from him and which he was able to give them if they satisfied his sexual demands.
How is that anything like Epstein, who’s accused of operating an underage sex ring to service to rich and powerful, and who may have been blackmailing the rich and powerful to enrich himself or perhaps to advance the interests of a shady intelligence service or even a foreign power. Epstein is accused of abusing children and promoting child prostitution. Some have accused him of distorting global politics and high finance.
Weinstein produced some movies and left a trail of angry actresses in his wake. Even if he raped or assaulted them, his story and his conduct are rather pedestrian by comparison.
Is it because they’re both prominent Jewish New Yorkers accused of sexual misdeeds? Is that it?
"....but the teacher is John Travolta....." Uh no! Travolta was a student and Gabe Kaplan the teacher.
@ Bruce Hayden I read McCarthy's article and was a bit bummed. Your explication of what he left out and the effect of the recent court decision on the settlement makes a lot of sense for the actions of SDNY. Thanks.
hstad- I think she's saying in this case (Epstein at Dalton) the teacher is the handsome one.
7/13/19, 9:38 AM
That's gonna leave a mark.
I wonder how many of Epstein's victims were victims. I'm sure he recruited a lot of these girls from the victim class, that is, those girls from impoverished or abused backgrounds. I've got a sneaking suspicion though that some of his girls came from privileged backgrounds and were just looking to pick up some money. Ghislaine Maxwell didn't hang around slums. This is a subject I can broach in the anonymity of the internet but which will never be said aloud.....Also, it does seem that the most publicized cases of sex crime celebrities have with only a couple of exceptions involved people active in or supportive of Democratic causes. This is something else that you will never hear mentioned
As it turns out, Charley Sheen is a role mode for all super rich celebrities with a crazed enthusiasm for sex. Give him credit. He was never accused of ruining any girl's life. The secret to successful sex addiction is to engage exclusively with established pornstars. There's no way a porn star is going to credibly give a tear filled interview with Savannah Guthrie and tell how that billionaire ruined her life. And, of course, you don't want to end your days in jail.
I went to high school with the Welcome Back Kotter Epstein. He was a great guy and sadly died too early.
"Yes, we Boomers are now doing penance for the sins we so joyfully committed 50 years ago!"
I'm not . . . unless you mean by "doing penance," looking back and reminiscing wistfully.
"Yes, we Boomers are now doing penance for the sins we so joyfully committed 50 years ago!"
It depends on how you define "it", life, the universe, and everything. They still have shared, shifted responsibility, and enough votes to hide the collateral damage. No regrets.
This reasoning sounds vaguely familiar. It's merely a front hole, a back hole, a top hole, a colorful clump of cells, and everything else is a social construct, a religion, a tradition, a law, a myth that people tell.
For those interested in the legalities of the new charges against Epstein, here is a bit of interesting reading:
Non-prosecution Agreement by SDFL USA (Acosta)
New Indictment by SDNY
WaPo: No, the Epstein prosecution is not a ‘redo’
Something interesting to note is that the new indictment, in addition to two criminal counts, includes a civil claim for asset forfeiture, and his NYC mansion is the one asset specifically listed. If you read the SDFL Non-Prosecution Agreement, there is no mention whatsoever of civil liability, except for suits by his victims. This means that there should be nothing legally preventing the feds from seizing property of his used in committing his crimes, even if McCarthy is correct that the new criminal charges are barred as Double Jeopardy. And, Epstein is going to have significant problems proving, by a preponderance of the evidence, that his various residences were not used in his various crimes, because they obviously were.
How come it took decades for "Epstein preyed on teen girls in his care" to come out, but, man, we knew Roy Moore got banned from a shopping mall in like, days.
Because the Moore story was a lie made up out of whole cloth that was refuted by the mall's records and the guy that ran mall security at the time.
There was some footage of two grammar school girls in the back seat of a car giving Jim Morrison of The Doors a blowjob (as he stood outside) when he showed up to do a concert in Ohio. One was in sixth grade--12, I guess--and the other in seventh--13. That was the concert where he was arrested later that night for his stage behavior. The film was shot by the high school kid that had taken the girls to the concert.
Gabe Kaplan would never have an island with underage girls.
Jim Morrison was a scumbag.
Oh, and I hate The Doors.
Blogger Eleanor said...
It was a private school. There are no requirements to teach at a private school other than the school is willing to hire you.
You conflate K-12 and college and they are very different. Dalton is K-12 so let's talk about that first.
As Kirk mentioned, different states have different requirements. Some states require certified/licensed teachers others don't. Some states specify education levels for teachers others don't. Some states have the same requirements for govt and private schools, some don't. These requirements have changed over the years but always in the direction of getting tighter (more requirements for Masters degrees for example. Credits in education.)
I don't know what the NY state (and maybe NY City?) requirements were in the 1970s. I still say that it seems strange to hire a 20 year old, non-degreed, person to teach in a high school. Though looking at the Wikipedia page for Dalton, it is a specifically "progressive" school so maybe they are just different.
Many schools are accredited by 6-7 USDOE approved accreditation agencies. In Dalton's case it would have been the Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools which covers NY and other states plus Puerto Rico. Dalton is not accredited by MS and I don't know if it would have been in the 1970s.
I have a bit of experience because my kids school, (70s and 80s) was accredited by them and they had some requirements for teacher qualifications though I forget the specifics. My kid's school no longer appears on MS list of accredited schools. There are currently only 3 in PR where they used to be many. I was always under the impression that it was a requirement. If it was, it apparently isn't any longer.
In PR, private schools are regulated by the state dept of education. My kids went to Catholic school and the Catholic schools refused, as a matter of principle, to recognize state authority to regulate them academically. (They did allow regulation by fire, health and other agencies)
For colleges and universities the same thing applies. It varies from state to state. My understanding, from some work that I have done with UW-Stout, is that to teach any course at the master's level, one needs a doctorate. My understanding is that this is a state, rather than a school requirement but I might be wrong.
There are no requirements to teach at a private college or university, either. While most schools try to amass credentials, there are times when a person with life experience is hired to teach a course because of his experience. A famous author to teach a writing course, an inventor to teach an engineering class, a successful businessman to teach a class for entrepreneurs.
Yes, I taught my first college class back in 1974 when I was still a student. The school had a program leading to an AS in refrigeration and, as a licensed tech, they hired me to teach some courses. Later I developed and taught the Packaging Technology course in the PUPR Industrial Engineering dept at the masters level. I have no degree in engineering but a lot of experience in packaging.
Also worked with UW-Stout school of packaging helping to develop a course in Packaging Machinery. Would have taught it too if we could have figured out the logistics.
Ann or someone else may have more info but, from my experiences with UW-Stout, I am under the impression that the state requires teachers to have a higher level degree than the students. IOW, since I have a masters, I can teach undergrads but to teach masters level courses I have to have a doctorate. It may be a school policy rather than a state law, though.
That is state law in Puerto Rico. When I taught at the masters level at PUPR, I has required to have someone with a doctorate as co-teacher. ABET, which accredits engineering schools had no problem, just the state Council on Higher Education.
John Henry
another rampaging squirrel this week,
https://thefloridasqueeze.com/2019/07/12/alleged-seth-rich-conspiracy-source-is-ufo-cataclysm-website-that-warns-of-nordic-aliens-invading-texas/
Inga 9:00 your man shaming is a bit generalized no?
Fascinating 2003 Vanity Fair article on Epstein -- "The Talented Mr. Epstein"; here's a bit of it:
According to S.E.C. and other legal documents unearthed by VANITY FAIR, Epstein may have good reason to keep his past cloaked in secrecy: his real mentor, it might seem, was not Leslie Wexner but Steven Jude Hoffenberg, 57, who, for a few months before the S.E.C. sued to freeze his assets in 1993, was trying to buy the New York Post. He is currently incarcerated in the Federal Medical Center in Devens, Massachusetts, serving a 20-year sentence for bilking investors out of more than $450 million in one of the largest Ponzi schemes in American history. ...
In 1987, Hoffenberg, according to sources, set Epstein up in the offices he still occupies in the Villard House, on Madison Avenue, across a courtyard from the restaurant Le Cirque. Hoffenberg hired his new protégé as a consultant at $25,000 a month, and the relationship flourished. “They traveled everywhere together—on Hoffenberg’s plane, all around the world, they were always together,” says a source. Hoffenberg has claimed that Epstein confided in him, saying, for example, that he had left Bear Stearns in 1981 after he was discovered executing “illegal operations.” ...
Much of Epstein’s work is related to cleaning up, tightening budgets, and efficiencies. One person who worked for Wexner and who saw a contract drawn up between the two men says Epstein is involved in “everything, not just a little here, a little there. Everything!” In addition, he says, “Wexner likes having a hatchet man…. Whenever there is dirty work to be done he’d stick Jeffrey on it…. He has a reputation for being ruthless but he gets the job done.”
Epstein has evidently been asked to fire personal-staff members when needed. “He was that mysterious person that everyone was scared to death of,” says a former employee.
Julie K Brown has good updates
in case this hasnt been posted
Jeffrey Epstein: how US media – with one star exception – whitewashed the story
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/13/jeffrey-epstein-alex-acosta-miami-herald-media
"The school had a program leading to an AS in refrigeration and, as a licensed tech, they hired me to teach some courses"
Just a note: here in WA at least, the public K-12 schools can also do this, under a "vocational certification". It's somewhat common in the more complex physical arts (e.g. pottery, glassblowing.) You'd never be able to hire under this basis for any core academic subjects because there's no shortage of Ed schools turning out certified Language, History, Math, Science, etc teachers.
And where was the herald in the preceding 8-10 years.
didnt they excise parts out? Better late than never. Similar to Farrow/weinstein?
Someone filed an anonymous motion to keep Epstein’s records sealed yesterday
is this normal?
us court of appeals 2nd circuit 18-2868 document 226 2607539
might be someone other than these?
Files from a Jeffrey Epstein-linked lawsuit are likely to be unsealed, and 2 'mystery litigants' asked for privacy
https://theweek.com/speedreads/830392/files-from-jeffrey-epsteinlinked-lawsuit-are-likely-unsealed-2-mystery-litigants-asked-privacy
computers removed before raid on epstein home suggesting tipped off??
Trump Plotted Clinton-Epstein Takedown For Years,
Knew About Clinton ISLAND PHOTOS
https://bigleaguepolitics.com/report-trump-plotted-clinton-epstein-takedown-for-years-knew-about-clinton-island-photos/
In 7th grade I had an eclectic male art teacher (1969). He would have us go out into the school yard and lay on the ground and draw the world around us. He spent his time talking to the girls about how the large veins in his arms meant he was a manly specimen, they loved it. I was not too attuned to sex at that point but it is a safe bet he was groping them in the supply room. The truth will never surface because Trump was not involved.
1979 or 1980 I went with my Hollywood struck friend to a party, turned out to be on Gabe Kaplans beautiful yacht. Very nice man Mr Kotter.
I know this isn't the same as morality but don't you think that for a 14-year-old there would be a qualitative difference between what might happen with a twenty-year-old teacher or a twenty-five-year-old rock star encountered at a party and what might happen with a fifty or sixty-year-old who's intending to rape and and prefers to do it to very young teenagers. Doesn't it seem that one might be sort of crazy and exciting however wrong and stupid; and the other a painful, degrading encounter with a horrible kind of man? And doesn't it seem that Epstein repeatedly tricked fairly young girls into these horrible encounters? And got weirder as he got older? And belongs in jail - end of story.
And none of this story is about consenting adults. That is a whole other group.
I wanted to be Juan Epstein. I still do.
I'm more curious where his $500 million came from
Are you serious Althouse? Your generation condoned boffing anything that moved. It's your peer group that sowed the depraved mores of today. You've done a real bang-up job.
"One of the biggest social disasters was the Left encouraging/promoting fathers to leave families, replaced by welfare checks." Or, its core success. Depending on how you look at it.
Speaking of your favorite rock stars and the children in their company, here's Gavin McInnes with the lowdown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixa4Vl7Zu8s
It's fair to say that schools and all kinds of other institutions and fields have gone downhill since incumbents and political operators gained powers to admit or deny entry. Mostly at the hands of empty-headed racialists.
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