"... but is rather a blood-and-soil movement that stands for nothing larger than one bombastic hothead."
Writes Nicholas Kristof in "The G.O.P. Is Now a Personality Cult/The party no longer stands for much of anything" (NYT), which I'm quoting as an example of the kind of thing I am seeing but not reading anymore. I made an exception for this one — after passing over many similar but slightly less tantalizing headlines — and I cherry-picked one line — mainly because I want to talk about how unreadably predictable this sort of material has become, but I do have one thing to say: If we need a center-right political party in this country, how about if the Democrats be that party?
At least be the center-center party. The whole center is gapingly open for anyone sensible and normal to step into it. I'm suspicious of one-sided demands for one party to forgo the thrills of extremism, to just calm down and be dull.
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३९२ टिप्पण्या:
392 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»If the center right lost Nicholas Kristof....the center right lost nothing...
Nick the K, who has also written that one can get good pizza in North Korea, so they may be OK..
The NYT wants a center-right party...to split the Republican vote and make it easier for Democrats to get elected.
The whole center is gapingly open for anyone sensible and normal to step into it.
Better to obtain express consent first.
No one wants a center party any more. If you are in the center of the road, you might be hit by a car and killed.
Right is right. Left is wrong. Center is dead.
Mr. Kristoff also calls the modern Republican party a "cult."
Like a cult where citizens group their children together to sing praises to an in-coming president, where major news anchors pledge to do their best to support him, and where celebrities cut commercials pledging their support as well?
Trump has the center. The TEA party voted him in. The TEA party is very center.
Funny that Kristol always thinks it's the Republican Party that is in the wrong and that has to change
Since kristof led the mob against Stephen hatfill in 2002, which Mueller followed through
I wonder what a “center-right” party looks like to Mr. Kristof.
I suspect what he has in mind is actually a center-left affair that keeps the Dems from overplaying their hand but doesn’t actually disagree with them. Rather like the GOP we’ve all come to know for the last 20 years.
He’s just waxing nostalgic.
If you ask Twitter, we DO have a center right party.
They're called the Democrats.
Or the new National Conservatism. Check out some of the You Tube videos from the National Conservatism Conference, starting with the keynote address by Sen. Josh Hawley: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPAUQKY9Jyw
Nice work, DuBois. And FU, Nick.
Controlling immigration would be boring if it weren't for the left and their audience of women. It was boring for half a century before the 60s.
Trump is economically conservative and socially liberal. That is what used to be called center; either right or even left.
Socialism, which is the position of all Democrat candidates, is not center anything.
Nicky, Nicky, Nicky. What an idiot you have decided to be.
Agree with Rusty. If you look at the substance of what Trump has done, and wants to do (but has been thwarted by lefty judges and useless RINOs), and ignore his style, you will see classic center-right policy.
This NYT retread very much wants to believe that Trump's base is not representative of a plurality of ordinary Americans (as opposed to professional victims and media windbags). I imagine that if that plurality gained widespread, effective representation it would maker Mr. Kristof very Sad.
Agree with Mike K. Trump *is* center-right.
His standing up for America first does not place at the “far right” end of that spectrum, but those who think it does tell us a lot about themselves.
Honestly, I think the TEA Party helped because it brought the financial conservative voices forward in a way they really hadn't been previously. Previously, the main conservative voices were social conservatives, in part because they were the ones the media propped up and gave attention too, and in part because, fiscal and foreign policy conservatives either knew they'd be ignored, or could get "close enough."
I expect that a lot of the weird media plays we see are them trying to thrust social conservatives as the defining voice of conservatism, either because they honestly don't get that some people think we can spend less without willingly starving children and the elderly, or because they think it is a better story.
Either way, you used to have Blue Dogs and Rockefeller Republicans to pull your party to the center. Obama and Pelosi executed the last of the Blue Dogs to get the ACA, and the Rockefeller Republicans have no home to go to because they couldn't moderate their anti-Trump stance.
Trump and Obama have done much to re-shape their own and the other party, it'll probably be another 5-10 years before we know to what extent.
Trump’s accomplishments prove Republicans are more than a personality cult.
What have the Dems done since his election to prove they’re more than an anti-personality cult?
"I'm suspicious of one-sided demands for one party to forgo the thrills of extremism, to just calm down and be dull."
A close relation to civility bullshit?
Trump is the center. That is why all the ideologues on both sides hate him.
They want a center-right party because it would be a net leftward movement of the overton window. The problem is the Left is plainly, objectively more insane than the right, and this is while it's being led by Trump of all people. It would be disastrous for that demand to be met.
Folks, we need our weave.
Eh, unless the left actively denounces the people who told the left "throw some fire" who went out and threw some firebombs and shot up some places, I really don't think they or the media have much of a leg to stand on when it comes to "extremist rhetoric" propaganda. I mean, I didn't think they did after the Palin target thing. Or the muted response to the Scalise shooting. Or the general ambivalence towards Antifa and far left riots/attacks at Trump events. Or the general support of Antifa violence and deplatforming of speakers of all nationalities and sexualities solely because Antifa hated them.
Really, when I think about it, I've always considered the political left kind of dishonest about its opinions on "extreme" rhetoric.
Over the last forty years, which party has moved farther away from the center? Could you imagine former Democrats such as Joe Liberman being accepted by the Left today? Kennedy would be considered too conservative today.
The Republicans stretch from liberals such as Kasich to libertarians such as Rand Paul.
I'm suspicious of one-sided demands for one party to forgo the thrills of extremism, to just calm down and be dull.
I thought Althouse liked dull?
Nicholas Kristof is a fool. His wife has got much better sense besides being better looking.
When stationed in Beijing, Kristof insisted on adhering to his mythical "journalistic standards." His wife said to be more careful about what we publish about our sources so as not to get these people killed.
Michael K
No, alas Trump is NOT economically conservative. He is running a huge deficit during a boom. That is the antithesis of fiscal conservative. I also do not see tariffs as economic conservatism. Trump is the reverse of Reagan on trade. Are you saying Reagan was not an economic conservative?
"Kennedy would be considered too conservative today."
-- Would a Republican Kennedy have had a Camelot?
"Center right" is a euphemism for "making the occasional 'right' sound while permitting things to shift ever leftward and statist."
Someone here yesterday was writing about the "rubes" for whom politicians announce a direction --- like a Dem nominee tacking to the center after winning over the "base" to get the nomination --- but this is kind of a one-way ratchet. A Democrat (like Obama) makes moderate noises to win over the rubes, and then steers things leftward with every opportunity, from healthcare to bathroom assignments. The rubes are on the right.
When it's a Republican (at least since Reagan and until Trump), the nominee talks "severely conservative" to get the nomination and then (if he doesn't just graciously lose the general like Mitt), other than the occasional temporary tax cut, permits things to keep drifting leftward. Once again, the rubes are on the right.
It's a pretty good system for lefties.
If it was Mitt Romney, or Jeb Bush or John McCain, they'd be saying the same thing. Makes absolutely no difference who's president.
Reagan used tariffs and had massive deficits, as well.
Coolidge was the last fiscal conservative.
Reagan was a rhetorical conservative.
Are you saying Reagan was not an economic conservative?
Reagan's deficits were proportionally just as large as Trump's.
Ken B: " I also do not see tariffs as economic conservatism."
Oh, so you are perfectly ok with the US being at a significant permanent trade disadvantage vs its competitors.
Gee, how profoundly "conservative".
Thanks for playing.
Socialism, which is the position of all Democrat candidates, is not center anything.
These people are not "socialists" in the original sense. Socialists in creating a "just society" do intend for everyone to work and mean to see that they do provide "from each according to his ability" - one way or another.
Today's leftists hazily promote a vision of a world where no one has to work; all the good stuff is to be miraculously provided by "the government" - perhaps transported in from a parallel universe? But then, how were the goodies produced over there?
We have used "fiscal conservativism" for decades to mean reducing spending and (thus) the budget deficit, and heaven knows that hasn't happened (and who knows when that wolf will finally be at the door), but maybe it does or should mean more than that.
I guess the Laffer curve was the lame excuse on the deficit, but economic conservatism (even if it might not fall within the definition of "fiscal," which I guess means looking out for the fisc) should and does stand for other things as well, including job creation and reduced government dependency, and on these the Republican performance has been at least a bit better, and much better under Trump.
Kristof is upset that no one is saving The Left from itself.
Open Borders and Antifa and The Squad. Come get your people, Nick.
Who is "we"? Nick, of course, "we" want a loser party to lose to our party. The hothead calls us out, and "we" keep losing.
'economic conservatism' is what is called 'austerity' in other places, or structural adjustment packages, which are tax raises and government cuts, which are antigrowth,
Warmed over BS from RINO propaganda central. Mitt Romney took a dive. Trump’s only fault is that he fights these fakes.
"If we need a center-right political party in this country, how about if the Democrats be that party?"
Funny stuff. The point of progs giving righties advice is to soften us up and make us easier to beat.
Anyway historically, "center-right" GOPers have been tax collectors for the welfare state and appointers of SCOTUS justices who mysteriously turned prog. "Center-right" Richard Nixon gave us affirmative action etc.etc.
"At least be the center-center party."
What does that mean? Medicare for almost all? Forgiving student loans for nearly everyone? Raising taxes on everyone above the 50th percentile? Appointing judges who only approve of abortion up to halfway through pregnancy?
"The whole center is gapingly open for anyone sensible and normal to step into it."
Sensible and normal enough to resist Chinese misbehavior, Iranian aggression, and a deep-state coup? To reduce regulations, make cheaper medical insurance available, and oppose deep-green giveaways?
"I'm suspicious of one-sided demands for one party to forgo the thrills of extremism, to just calm down and be dull."
We tried calm and dull -- W, Romney. Who, of course, were smeared as calm BusHitler and dog-abuser. Too late now. Of curse, we do face a dilemma: the GOP will need at least some of the Althouses of America, whose self-regard depends on displaying a preference for "sensible and normal," someone "serious."
Today's leftists hazily promote a vision of a world where no one has to work; all the good stuff is to be miraculously provided by "the government"
Certainly summarizes Cookie quite nicely.
“Trump has the center. The TEA party voted him in. The TEA party is very center.”
I agree.
“Trump is economically conservative and socially liberal. That is what used to be called center; either right or even left.”
I pretty much agree, except that Mike Pence is his VP.
Being a western conservative, social liberalism isn’t really that hard. It fits into our live and let live philosophy. Where we live here in rural MT, we have a comfortable coexistence between very traditional and conservative sects like the Mennonites, and even some Amish, on one side, and slovenly and provocably dressed young people, all getting along. Homosexuality is completely ignored, as none of our business, as long as it isn’t shoved down our throats, and it isn’t. No one cares. I talk guns with the three gay guys who built this house, fixes my broken windshield, and lives nearby (one of them was adamant that the Pulse shootings were due to it being a gun free zone). And hiring a Mennonite youngster that a Lesbian nearby had hired. The few minorities around are treated identically to everyone else - well, until proven wrong.
Social liberalism has long been race blind, religion blind, and sex and sexual orientation blind. The move in this country to abolish slavery did not come from Democrats. Rather, north and south, they mostly opposed it. It was northern (ultimately) Republicans motivated by New England Protestants who drove it. And drove the enactment of the 1860s and 1960s Civil Rights laws. This fits well into my western brand of conservatism.
Think about what Trump opposes - big, oppressive government progressivism, its adherents advocating spending our taxpayer money to buy votes in order to garner power and wealth for themselves, while driving wedges between different groups in order to play them off against each other. That is neither socially liberal nor fiscally conservative. Rather, it is the opposite.
"Kennedy would be considered too conservative today."
He was pretty conservative even in his day. His image as a liberal icon is based primarily on his aura of youthful optimism, his aspirational speechifying, and his sudden death at a relatively youthful age. It's easy to deify someone who is dead, and who cannot by his actions disappoint one's expectations.
I don’t think Nicholas Kristof, living and working in a far left extremist bubble, has any idea what the center looks like.
Drago
What a stupid remark. I make a point about a definition and you decide I am in favor of some policy. Being careful with definitions implies nothing about policy.
Let me define “risible fool” for you.
"If we need a center-right political party in this country, how about if the Democrats be that party?"
Moderates, where art thou? Anyone can and should join parties, or, conversely, start a new one. Civic virtue. Town meetings.
If the parties are not moderate, it is because the moderate citizens have neglected their obligations of citizenship. It's the duty of citizens to act in a democratic Republic. Citizens can and ought to hold and attend town meetings, form parties, join parties at the local and state level, vote for leaders. Politics in the USA is not national.
The electoral college and all else is based on the state and local region. State-based constitutional republics are not designed to operate with passive citizens who do little but consume national news media, enjoy bread and circuses, and treat politics as if it is entertainment.
“Writes Nicholas Kristof in "The G.O.P. Is Now a Personality Cult/The party no longer stands for much of anything"...”
No kidding.
Shorter: Everyone should be like me.
The swamp used to be such a pleasant place before all these orange people moved in with their bright lights and draining everything.
"Personality cult", "Blood and soil party", klueless Kristof calls Republicans Nazis. How original.
Kristof has been clueless for 25 years and remains so today. He likes to bill himself as an honest, earnest liberal, but he's still in that NY, upper west side bubble.
Yeah, remember when the R's were the "steady center-right" party under McCain, Romney and Bush. Remember the civil debate and the lack of Democrat name calling? Oh wait, that was some other time period. because I remember Bush-Hitler, and McCain and Romney being labeled rich racists who were going to bring us back-alley abortions.
Kristof just pines for the day when the R's were the reasonable - mostly silent - opposition with no power.
There is no center among the people (that matter), so why should there be a party occupying it?
US politics has been getting ever more intensely polarized for at least thirty years, and this has been most intense on the left. More than this they have trained the leaders of all American institutions to cringe before them.
The American right is, as usual, a reaction. We conservatives are, everywhere and at all times, reactionaries, for good reason. I am not American, but American ones aren't very different. The specific form of the reaction varies, but the Trump-populist one is not at all unusual in a world-historical context.
In such a conflict there is no room for a center. Fight with all your being, or do not fight, commit entirely or be irrelevant.
As for a center, by that I don't mean there are no Althouses, but in truth the Althouses of the world are irrelevant. Not Althouse herself, if I have leave to risk confusion, as Althouse has indeed stuck her head out and made some difference, but that there are damned few Althouses among the Althouses. Oh dear, I think I've made it worse.
In a revolutionary condition the passive center is irrelevant. Only the active and extreme matter. When the armies march across the land, the centrists become merely refugees clogging the roads, at the mercy of the most brutal.
The centrists have little money or the institutional influence to get it, or the wealthy ones are very shy of spending it on politics, or to be seen spending it on politics other than to buy protection from cultural leftist wolves.
The national Republicans should just act like the Calf or Rhode Island Republican Party and Nick would be happy.
Trump has been accused of all manner of badness without any of these people actually specifying what any of it is. Just tell me some specifics so I won't be forced to believe it's just emoting. Even when they have a specific event or statement, it's always a straw man they create by taking his words and adding their own imaginary crimes.
The D's always whine about extremism and the need for unity when the R's are in power.
When the D's are in power, all this talk goes away. Instead its, why are the R's blocking the will of the people?
You people are such hypocrites. Your problem isn’t rightism or leftism it’s Cultism.
“Conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh admitted that Republican fear-mongering over the federal deficit under President Obama was “bogus,” while defending the deficit's explosive rise to $1 trillion under President Trump.
During Limbaugh’s show on Tuesday, a caller suggested that Republicans should nominate a young fiscal conservative instead of Trump, citing the rising deficit. Limbaugh dismissed the concerns, declaring that fiscal conservatism was basically a sham all along.
Nobody is a fiscal conservative anymore,” Limbaugh shot back. “All this talk about concern for the deficit and the budget has been bogus for as long as it’s been around.”
Kristof was trained as an Arabist, including graduate studies at Cairo U, but the Times assigned him to Moscow then Beijing
“Nobody is a fiscal conservative anymore,” Limbaugh shot back. “All this talk about concern for the deficit and the budget has been bogus for as long as it’s been around.”
Tea Party my ass. We all knew it was fake, just a movement based on hate for a mixed race President.
> You people are such hypocrites.
Says the lady who quotes lefty scripture everyday.
US politics, as is also becoming evident everywhere else, is departing from the ideological categories of the late 19th century. The arguments couched in those terms had become ever more quaint ever since the days of Chairman Deng Xiaoping. Its taken a very long time for the articles of the faith to change to suit latter day conditions, but they have, in spite of the persistence of verbal formulas.
What the US has now is really a caste war. "Right" and "Left" are leftover labels from ancient times.
“Says the lady who quotes lefty scripture everyday.”
chuck,
I quote what corresponds to or supports my own thinking. I’m tickled I can be the squeaking wheel here. Otherwise this blog’s comments section is in danger of being a synchronized swim by old white hairy men and a few righty ladies... which may be amusing, but kind of grotesque.
"The whole center is gapingly open for anyone sensible and normal to step into it."
Uh, the allegedly crazy far-right "blood-and-soil movement" (insert eye rolls here) comprises people with views that were held by ordinary decent liberal citizens, and espoused by liberal politicians, just the other day.
You claim you no longer read the "unreadably predictable" stuff of which this Kristof article is an example, yet you still buy into its idiotic, bullshit premise that these views represent some kind of "abnormal" extreme in American political life. Apparently to you the "sensible, normal" center is the entire current prog agenda minus a few antifa thugs.
The front runner for the Dem nomination thinks that dumpy Inga's rapey incest-baby grandsons should be bussed to a Somali school. So you can't say the Democrats don't stand for anything.
I quote what corresponds to or supports my own thinking.
A New York Times columnist says it, I believe it, and that settles it
Center Right Party Platform
#1 - Make sure the right people get back in power even if its a Democrat.
#2 - Work with Democrats to fix the system and make sure nothing like this ever happens again ever.
#3 - Be the party that is always willing to work with Democrats in a bi-partisan and collegial way.
#4 - Be a voice for conservative principles.
Tea Party my ass. We all knew it was fake, just a movement based on hate for a mixed race President.
You allowed yourself to believe that, and then you got Trump. You must be ineducable.
“You allowed yourself to believe that, and then you got Trump. You must be ineducable.”
You got Trump and next you may get an Elizabeth Warren because of it. Thank you Trump.
Cook does a nice job puncturing the hype of JFK.
Yes, he was "conservative" in the 50s and early 60s, but that's because the times were conservative. Had he survived to stay in office til the late 60s, I bet he would have "evolved" politically - just as Bobby and Teddy did.
JFK was mostly malleable and unprincipled. He was basically a spoiled rich kid, who never worked a day in his life, but made it big.
Shorter Kristof: We need the Republicans to save the country from us.
You got Trump and next you may get an Elizabeth Warren because of it.
It will be interesting to see how black and Hispanic voters react to this whiter-than-white bread white woman falsely claiming to be a person of color to advance her career, based on an alleged family oral tradition.
This is your problem right here.
Trumpism
A social/political movement based on elements of (a) racism, (b) religious bigotry, (c) demeaning attitudes towards women, (d) attempts to intimidate the press, (e) economic uncertainty, (f) rejection of scientific findings and (g) general expressions of hatred that are reminiscent of German National Socialism of the Hitler era. It is often characterized by completely baseless, false statements.
Many political observers were surprised by the rise of Trumpism during the 2016 U.S. Presidential campaign.
#trump#nazism#national socialism#presidential campaign 2016#president#racism#racist#bigotry#bigot#climate science#xenophobia#misogyny#neo-nazi#alt-right
Urban Dictionary
US politics is not really local.
Or, rather, thats only partly still true in a very limited idea of politics.
Most of what you have to fight about politically concerns national and international institutions. In a world of Google and Amazon and Wall Street and the great mass of Washington it does not matter much what the local government of Montana does.
Indeed, such local governments are regularly overridded by the great beasts. What does it matter who runs your state, if your means of livelihood are mainly under the thumb of alphabet soup agencies in Washington and hundreds of overriding national institutions, that control what you can plant, and how, what you can make, and how, how you transport, what you must spend for medical services, what you are allowed to teach, and how, what can be financed, and how, and, well, everything.
Its becoming more difficult even to find experienced personnel for contrary politics, as the national institutions they could have come from have filtered them out, or hold sanctions over their heads should they become politically active.
I agree with Rusty and Bruce; Trump is the center. I'm not sure about the TEA part, other than many knew we needed something other than the nation building and war spending of the Bush's and McCain. Trump spends a bit like Democrats, which again is center. He's built a stronger economy. He did give the TEA an improvement in taxes, and it was Juuuge.
As for Democrats, they do stand for something, but I'm not sure its a great message. They oppose a blanket right to free speech. They completely oppose the second amendment. They've mentioned several things that sound in opposition to the 4th, 5th, and 6th amendment. And when you consider the spying on American citizens; you can nearly wipe out 3rd through 6th amendment, and again the 1st, as it is the rational for spying. In the meantime; Democrats think we should all be forced to by medical insurance, which they call healthcare. Except illegals, who should get insurance for free and acceptance to college in the US. Indeed, illegals should also get sanctuary for various other crimes besides just crossing the border; and if you complain about it, you should be physically assaulted in put in the hospital.
What a stand.
I don't think there's any kind of cult of personality surrounding Trump. He has his fans, but they're in on the joke. Who here thinks Trump is some kind of exemplar or saint in his private life? The Dem Presidents are the ones with the cult followers. Obama has already been beatified and will achieve saint status upon his death. Kennedy achieved saint status but, when you consider his private life, that's totally unmerited. The Dems aren't in on the joke, but JFK was....The Dem President with the least cult followers is Carter, but he's the one with the most honorable private life. Go figure.
Inga, which item on your list is the most important?
The Republicans are the center-right party. It's just that Progressive Democrats and the Nick Kristols of the world have no idea where the Country's political center actually is.
OK, "Kristof." Typo.
Anybody who pays attention to Inga's prescriptions for policy deserves the results of such lunatic political rule.
I think there are too many people left who understand logic. That is fatal to Gramscian leftism.
'He has his fans, but they're in on the joke.'
That's an interesting take. I'm a fan and I laugh at a lot of the stuff he says or tweets. And while I'm sure he enjoys trolling the humorless libtards, it also serves a point, and has been very effective at helping them implode.
More projection. Lololol
“Work with Democrats to fix the system and make sure nothing like this ever happens again ever.”
Indeed.
"US politics is not really local."
US politics is based on state and local politics. The national vote is politically irrelevant; the national consensus is politically insignificant. The elections are not based on the national vote.The electoral college is based on the vote of the state. It is a state-based system.
The national Representatives and Senators represent local districts and States. The President wins based on the vote of the State and that state's electoral votes. The idea of the United States grew out of town meetings. It's what drove the politics of Revolutionary Boston.
Voting power is based around state and local elections. Participation means getting involved at that level, or joining a group that effects those votes. There is no "national" vote in the USA.
“That's an interesting take. I'm a fan and I laugh at a lot of the stuff he says or tweets. And while I'm sure he enjoys trolling the humorless libtards, it also serves a point, and has been very effective at helping them implode.”
You people are so invested in seeing the “Libtards” implode you’re not paying attention to our country imploding under Trumpism. Wake up. The party is over. Trump is president because of spite, but spite will only get you so far.
“Work with Democrats to fix the system and make sure nothing like this ever happens again ever.”
They think the people they're calling deplorables, and much, much worse, are going to work with them? I don't know if I've ever seem anything more clueless.
Well Inga, we would rather have libtards implode than explode. Less likely to cause harm to the normal people in this country.
“Who here thinks Trump is some kind of exemplar or saint in his private life?”
The problem is that you people would have ripped apart any Democratic President for the same thing. Why do you not hold Trump to the same standards you expect from a Democratic President? It’s cultism that allows you to not be bothered by his very obvious moral and intellectual failings. Is everything OK in a Trump reality?
"to each according to his needs" is the foundation for wealth redistribution and a kleptocrat government. Of course Inga wants Warren- she's demonstrably incompetent and fiscally clueless- a perfect exemplar of a Democrat politician.
Inga, when did you criticize Obama for anything?
I'm almost relieved that the standard liberal approach is to treat Trump as Caesar. It's true, of course, and I wouldn't be surprised if Trump marched the military clear into Washington to permanently deal with his enemies in Congress. And yet, neither Trump nor Julius Caesar formed their political base purely through raw charisma. They needed:
1) An extremely dissatisfied plebian underclass.
2) A useless, smug, effeminate political class that no one with self-respect would die for.
3) A program to help the plebians while retaining the support of the armed forces.
Now, Julius Caesar might have wanted to become dictator for life, but there was a flaw in the plan and he didn't recognize it until too late. But what's interesting is that, unlike standard personality cults, much more ruthless and effective demagogues like Marc Antony demanded the conspirators and their families be brutally punished, and the plebs enthusiastically agreed. And in the end, Caesar's heir Octavian heralded the end of the Senate and the start of imperial rule. So the problems of the Senate only really started once Julius Caesar was no longer a factor.
I wonder if that has lessons for our time?!
“They think the people they're calling deplorables, and much, much worse, are going to work with them? I don't know if I've ever seem anything more clueless.”
My quote was from Bob Boyd:
Blogger Bob Boyd said...
“Center Right Party Platform
#1 - Make sure the right people get back in power even if its a Democrat.
#2 - Work with Democrats to fix the system and make sure nothing like this ever happens again ever.
#3 - Be the party that is always willing to work with Democrats in a bi-partisan and collegial way.
#4 - Be a voice for conservative principles.”
7/21/19, 9:53 AM
Is Bob clueless? Are Centrists clueless?
Inga,
Many commenters approve of Trump and hope for a future Trump in the GOP. They approve of the rhetoric and style and rallies and tweets. They don't want the moderate tone Althouse wishes for.
wwww,
Quite a few people think Donald Trump is too soft-hearted and cosmopolitan for what they actually want. Of those people, there's a substantial minority who think he's too friendly to Israel and American Jews in general. Which just goes to show, the extreme left and extreme right have a very good chance to meet without intermediaries like Trump holding them back.
Althouse voted for Obama’s moderate tone and things got worse.
However her moderate might not be other people’s definition of moderate.
Some people might consider Antifa moderate.
“Inga, when did you criticize Obama for anything?”
I didn’t even vote for Obama in 2012. He capitulated too many times to Republicans who made it obvious they were not going to work with him in any way shape or form. He gave Republicans way too much credit, he wasn’t strong enough. He’d should’ve been more like some of the Democratic candidates who are running now.
Inga the totalitarian wants to rig the system so that the election of a candidate she does not like can never happen again.
Convicted by her own words again.
To be clear, a great number of men died fighting for the Senate faction of the optimates/boni during the Caesarian civil wars. That was a very bloody, extended business that, at times, JC was on the edge of losing. These were not the first Roman civil wars fought along this political split either.
“Many commenters approve of Trump and hope for a future Trump in the GOP. They approve of the rhetoric and style and rallies and tweets. They don't want the moderate tone Althouse wishes for.”
Yes, that’s true. I wonder if Althouse doesn’t get a bit sad seeing how so many of her commenters have become so invested in Trumpism?
Learn to be a gracious loser instead of a lout throwing a tantrum, Inga.
People disagree with you, dummy.
Try to grasp this idea.
Who needs to work with anyone when one has a phone and a pen?
The GOP stood for very little before Trump. It's current turmoil is the process of finding its core.
Boyd certainly is clueless.
As are most such people.
They verge on the autistic really.
Your split is not mechanically political. It is not a question of Congress.
Your split is social, cultural, economic, and it involves all your institutions, public and private.
I'll add this to the list of things Kristin has written that are true in his mind and nowhere else.
Nicholas Kristof should go eff himself
Trump is mostly in the center- that is why he is so effective. Claiming Trump is far right is killing the Democrats right now.
“Claiming Trump is far right is killing the Democrats right now.”
Trump isn’t far right. Trump lives in his own world of Trumpism and he has sucked you people in it with him. The ride may be fun for you, but it’s going to crash with you people in the cars yelling and whooping it up. The world will be watching when it happens.
Every negative comment a leftist makes about Trump or the right is projection
"blood-and-soil movement"
Things become so much easier for all around to understand! All it needs is correct wording :
blood-and-TOIL movement or why Stalin had to kill the Kulaks
In the end what you are actually dealing with is a caste war.
It is a large faction of your upper classes effectively controlling all your institutions, that monopolize them for your upper caste, fighting your middle class, that is more or less the majority of your top three income quintiles.
The upper caste would have no chance in such a war, in a democracy, were it not for the fact that institutional power is largely unresponsive to and in the main invulnerable to democratic imperatives. And the upper caste has the majority support of the bottom two quintiles to give them democratic heft.
It is the classic high-low alliance against the middle.
The castes in conflict have acquired or inherited ideological, or perhaps one can say civic-religious formulas, as symbols.
But a proper analysis of the conflict should avoid symbols and personalities.
The GOP stood for very little before Trump. It's current turmoil is the process of finding its core.
That is very true.
90-IQ Inga thinks that the GOP of Obama's period is the same as the GOP now, or that the Republicans in congress are the same as Trump's base. Or maybe she's complaining that it isn't? But then again she quoted the Urban Dictionary to make her point. THE URBAN DICTIONARY.
Trump has NEVER been about fiscal responsibility. Neither was Obama, and certainly none of the Democrats and especially the Warrens and the "Omars" of the world that Inga worships are, either. Dems were and are fine with that, so complaints about it mean nothing now. I don't give two shits about Limbaugh but he's quite right--no one in DC cares about that stuff. They should; they don't.
Trump is personally vulgar. Clinton was much, much, worse. Dems defended him to the death, so complaints about Trump mean nothing now.
There was once a philosopher called Nietzsche, he pointed out the whiny tactics of superbeckies like Inga in a book entitled the Gay Science.
"Trump isn’t far right."
I agree in that Trump is not a 1960s era John Bircher. Or he's not a Goldwater type. He's much closer in ideology and policy to the southern Democrats of the 1950s. It's part of reason Trump's provoking a major political realignment.
1) paints everyone to his right as "extreme ultra far right extremists"
2) cries out for help when the Red Guard comes for him.
Moar popcorn please
The ride may be fun for you, but it’s going to crash with you people in the cars yelling and whooping it up.
So you're looking forward to loading your grandsprogs on the bus to the Somali school, right?
I mean, it's pants on head retarded to claim that ooh, what American conservatives really want is reheated Bushism. Donald Trump not only defeated the last scion of the Bush family, he HUMILIATED them. Usually defeats this total ends in someone's beheading! In 2016, I actually understood why conservatives would try moderating, just because completely dominating the Northern industrial states was so unlikely. And now cuckservatives expect the President to abandon the winning strategy he tailored his first four years towards, in exchange for socially liberal Romney-style "severe conservatism?!
Are you happy, liberals? Do you feel safe, knowing your leaders are such incompetent fucksticks that they're this isolated from reality?
NYT and its writers have understood this since a century ago.
Corey Booker says Trump is "worse than a racist".
Even they realize they ruined the word. I'm surprised it took so long. You call everyone you disagree with the same stupid slur all day every day regardless of the disagreement, so how can it mean anything when YOU say it?
I wonder how many times the left/media complex calls someone racist in a single 24 hour period in what is surely the least racist period in history. The exception being the amount of racism against Whites, which is now openly flaunted as some kind of virtue.
Trump probably has more respectful professional and long term relationships with women and people of color than any President in history, only Obama is close. Yet he is called racist and sexist all day long. It is completely unjustified.
“I agree in that Trump is not a 1960s era John Bircher. Or he's not a Goldwater type. He's much closer in ideology and policy to the southern Democrats of the 1950s. It's part of reason Trump's provoking a major political realignment.”
True. I like what one of the “Squad” said the other day. “We’re not going back. We’re going forward.”
The Squad thinks you should be paying reparations Inga. Are you?
Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zone . . . Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual - uninvolved, uninformed."
I think it’s safe to say that came true.
For some having a vagina as President was in their comfort zone and when they didn’t get that, they’ve been acting like a woman scorned for 3 years and and refuse to do what we’ve been hammered to do for years, Move On!
I don't know if Howard Schultz really ends up running an independent campaign for president, but if he does Trump is likely to win 42+ states- he might even win California in such a three way race- he would certainly win OR, WA, and NM.
Schultz has the potential to peel off 10-15% of the Democratic vote that is center left- that is an indication of how far to the left the rest of the presidential field has moved.
Kristof, in that essay, is projecting- I think, at some level, he understands that the Democrats have driven off the left cliff, and what Kristof really wants is for a Democrat to actually be center left, but he can't say that without having to denounce the present field, so he writes asking for a 3rd party run by some nationally recognized Republican- a repeat of Perot.
True. I like what one of the “Squad” said the other day. “We’re not going back. We’re going forward.”
Onward to Venezuela!
Blogger buwaya said...
But a proper analysis of the conflict should avoid symbols and personalities.
7/21/19, 11:05 AM
I liked what you said up until this point. You can't really have a proper analysis without discussing the symbolism of leadership. In this case, Donald Trump's public image, curated over decades, is that of a billionaire with a lifestyle that the white lower class would love to emulate. Your name on the building, gold plating, super-size everything. Guest star on WWE? WOO, YEAH!
By contrast, quite a few liberals demand a champion who is either a paste-eating child sniffer, or Hillary 2.0 without the public history or much more accomplished husband. The attraction to the midwit elite is understandable, but what do geriatric honkeys have to offer the grab bag of Democratic minorities? Uh, we'll get back to you on that.
“We’re not going back. We’re going forward.”
The below 45 age groups don't support Trump's style or similar styles in other pols. He's a unique figure due to his media expertise and The Apprentice. I don't see this being replicated in future politician for a couple of reasons.
Five minutes after Trump is no longer in office, the GOP starts to distance itself from Trump-ism.
“The Squad thinks you should be paying reparations Inga. Are you?”
Unlike you, I don’t buy everything the Squad or ANYONE says hook line and sinker. You’re fortunate I decided to acknowledge your question, as it’s one of the more sane comments you’ve ever made here.
The ride may be fun for you, but it’s going to crash with you people in the cars yelling and whooping it up. The world will be watching when it happens.
Remember, Inga the Oracle spent three years on here peddling the Russia collusion hoax.
"He's much closer in ideology and policy to the southern Democrats of the 1950s."
Examples?
“Five minutes after Trump is no longer in office, the GOP starts to distance itself from Trump-ism.”
True again. They will act as if the past 4 years never happened or claim they were secretly working against Trumpism.
You’re fortunate I decided to acknowledge your question, as it’s one of the more sane comments you’ve ever made here.
I can't even characterize Inga's politics.
She is a vicious hysteric who's channeling her paranoia and hatred into politics.
She routinely accuses every Republican candidate of sex crimes and/or sexual assaults.
Inga doesn't have a political program as much as she has a psycho-sexual disorder.
There's a lot of this going on in the Democratic Party.
The GOP nominated milquetoast RINO Mitt and what did the Democrats and Inga's have to say about him?
Same old this.
Hates women, racist, same as Hitler, tries to kill dogs.
What a liar Inga is.
No matter what candidate runs as a Republican, she'll be soiling herself with vicious slanders and wild hysterics.
Five minutes after Trump is no longer in office, the GOP starts to distance itself from Trump-ism.
5 minutes after the acceptance he was President they started distancing themselves and it consumes this day.
He’s breaking a lot of rice bowls.
But he gives hope to a lot of people around the world.
They hear him.
The world goes thru these. The world is not static.
Continues to this day.
The John Birchers, at the time, are quite close to what Trumps supporters are now.
The whole point of the JBS was that they believed that the leadership caste of the US was ideologically compromised. That the US leadership, or much of it, was essentially traitorous. This was a minority view at the time, but it is widespread now. And for good reason.
The JBS was, perhaps, 30% correct in its day. The US intellectual elite and many US institutions were indeed ideologically compromised, in one way or another, sympathetic to the interests of a foreign power, or at least hostile to the US as a polity, society and culture, as it existed then. Most was not hostile or disloyal, but enough was to sustain a minority view.
The core of the US modern right is now convinced that 100% of the US intellectual elite and all major US institutions, other than perhaps elements of the military, are implicitly hostile to them (lets say the top three quintiles) and their interests.
Given the million points of evidence that have accumulated over these decades, it is impossible to deny the truth of this perception. There is an open, aggressive hatred of "legacy" Americans and legacy America on the part of your leadership caste.
Correction gracchi
https://www.google.com/amp/s/sententiaeantiquae.com/2019/01/02/mortal-republic-moral-disaster/amp/
"They will act as if the past 4 years never happened or claim they were secretly working against Trumpism."
Yes. It'll happen fast. Five minutes after he's out national figures will say they disapproved of his tweets and his tone and his rallies. The Conway marriage might be a forerunner of the type of thing we're going to see. But the Conway marriage is so strange it might just be something individual to themselves.
decades, is that of a billionaire with a lifestyle that the white lower class would love to emulate
Excuse you?
Why are you limiting it to the white lower class?
Inga:
Don't confuse politicians recognizing that actually dealing with the deficit is highly risky politically and that deficit spending is like cat nip to most voters with the politicians not actually believing deficit spending is a serious problem that needs to be dealt with.
Rand Paul's senate bill to tackle the deficit was recently voted on. About half of the republican senators voted for it. None of the democrat senator did. So don't try selling the BS that the parties are equally at fault. Democrats are the party that always bid up federal spending and seek to exact a pollical cost to cutting the budget. The vast majority of the blame for the deficit belongs to democrats and the left.
They will act as if the past 4 years never happened or claim they were secretly working against Trumpism."
Except they’re not “secretly” working against. Theyre actively working against it now.
They have to protect their rice bowls.
The last 4 years have been pretty damned good.
Seems to keep getting better, too.
I'm looking forward to how good it will be after Trump's re-election.
Inga, a becky like you will have no say in what the Squad does. The Squad is identity politics first, last, always. Reparations is at the center of their program--it's not marginal. I personally don't like such politics (I'm only somewhat European white and most of my family 0% European white) but what I WANT is not at all relevant. But it was hardly Trump's voters that started it (many of them voted for Obama first). NO WAY WILL ONLY PART OF THE PEOPLE GET TO PLAY IDENTITY POLITICS FOREVER. The GOP (more precisely--Republican voters) have changed, but this isn't the Democratic Party of the 90s, or even 10 years ago, any more either.
I don't give a shit whether you acknowledge me or not. You're ineducable anyway. You're a corn-pone hick who lives as far away from the Squad's base as you can and yet thinks you're sophisticated. My reasons for posting have nothing to do with you.
What is "Trumpism"?
Low unemployment
High GDP growth
Lower taxes
Fairer deals for American trade
A secure border policy that respects our laws
Less dependence on American tax payers by our allies and enimies alike
Companies, jobs and taxes revenues returning from abroad.
Enemies fearing us rather than laughing at how easy they take advantage of us.
Transparency
Is short: America First, which is of course racist, becuase we all know America is all White.
wwww,
Whatever happens in mechanical politics, post Trump, which is going to, again, be mainly determined by money, it does not change the fundamentals of your social-cultural-economic conflict.
You now have two castes, openly at war, clearly defined, with no trust between them.
The hatred is bare, and intense.
I have said, again and again, and yes I am tiresome, that the best place to see all this is in your schools of education.
The Democrats are in a real bind- the only realistic candidate for the center left at the moment is Joe Biden, a man who is probably suffering from the early stages of dementia, and even he is being pulled to the left by the attacks of the other candidates.
Howard Schultz, if he really wants to be president, should enter the Democratic primary, but I think he believes he has no chance to get the nomination. I think this is misjudgment, but I understand the belief.
Here is the warning the Democrats should listen to- in 2016, third party candidates on the right took almost 5.5 million votes. 3-4 million of those will be Trump votes in 2020. Third party candidates on the left only took 1.5 million, and it is likely right now that third party candidates on the left will take even more than that in 2020.
Blogger Seeing Red said...
Excuse you?
Why are you limiting it to the white lower class?
7/21/19, 11:23 AM
As a whole, the upper classes and aspiring elites (academics, journalists, etc) would rather cut their own wangs off than make an appearance on WWE. So gauche, darling. If I had to do a breakdown of Donald Trump's appeal, it would be firmly to the white lower and middle classes. The hatred of the upper class is almost welcomed, as it lends authenticity to his plebian demeanor. And the last few years have made a great number of plebs, tens of millions, understand that the upper class hates -them- even more than Trump. He's just the one they're trying to get out of the way.
That isn't to say that Trump dislikes support from minorities. Quite the contrary: Trump's "racist" society is invariably the one refugees worldwide would most like access to, and the man himself is rather friendly to civic nationalism. You could write whole dissertations on the subject, but I'd rather not help the left in that sense until it's too late.
Inga: "True again."
Inga's preductions over the last 3 years have been "solid", so we should definitely pay heed to her latest mental meanderings.......
LOL
“Yes. It'll happen fast. Five minutes after he's out national figures will say they disapproved of his tweets and his tone and his rallies. The Conway marriage might be a forerunner of the type of thing we're going to see. But the Conway marriage is so strange it might just be something individual to themselves.”
Hahaha, the Conway marriage. Wouldn't it be interesting if Mrs. Conway would admit that she was the author of that anonymous op-Ed and she was only doing what needed to be done in order to keep close tabs on Trump? Things will get very very interesting, Trump can be indicted once he no longer is President.
Inga: "The problem is that you people would have ripped apart any Democratic President for the same thing. Why do you not hold Trump to the same standards you expect from a Democratic President?"
LOLOLOLOL
It just keeps getting better and better.
Under Trump the GOP had control of the House, Senate, Presidency for 2 years. The younger generations watched it play out. They observed the legislation that was prioritized.
Side Comment: The GOP calling everything socialist from tax rebates to medicare to maternity leave to social security to Obamacare to Pell Grants is prob. not the best politics. It's an assumption that the under 40s know what "Socialism" means. There's a certain amount of the population that thinks "Socialism" means to "be social" as in socialization with other people.
Inga, the squad hates you for being White, American, having military family, and not being poor. They say it in a number of ways all the time. You need to abandon those things if you want to support such people.
If the shit hit the fan, me and the people in this forum who you spar with would be standing between you and them with their torches and bicycle locks.
“My reasons for posting have nothing to do with you.”
Irrelevant.
Conspiracy/Collusion/Dossier Truther Cultist Inga: "Wouldn't it be interesting if Mrs. Conway would admit that she was the author of that anonymous op-Ed and she was only doing what needed to be done in order to keep close tabs on Trump?"
You don't know what Kellyanne knows!!!!
LOL
Everyday some new mythical lunatic idea from Inga to replace all the other lunatic conspiracies that have been tossed onto the ash heap of democrat/LLR impeachment fever dream history.
So amusing.
“Inga, the squad hates you for being White, American, having military family, and not being poor. They say it in a number of ways all the time. You need to abandon those things if you want to support such people.”
Dear Baggie,
I doubt you have a handle on what the “Squad” wants. I don’t care much about what they want. I’m much more interested in the real movers and shakers like Warren, like Bernie.
"There's a certain amount of the population that thinks "Socialism" means to "be social" as in socialization with other people."u
Like getting together to share a dumpster, or a friend's pet roasting over an open flame.
I guess you are saying be careful, becuase Democrat voters are really stupid. There may be some truth to that.
Trump can be indicted once he no longer is President.
Inga reveals her viciousness again.
She’s flipped from one fantasized crime to another in her Get Trump hysteria.
The woman is a nasty, vindictive lout who labors under the delusions that she’s nice and moderate.
Inga is consumed with hysterical bloodlust.
Political disagreement is a crime to this rotten bitch.
I realize we live in a highly patriarchal society where the man in a relationship is obviously heeded more than the woman no matter how large and independent her accomplishments, but seriously. There's a line between trolling and just looking like an asshole by all but the most reactionary standards.
And wwww, it might help you to know that most of the hardcore Trump supporters -hate- Congress and would be quite happy to see Kevin McCarthy and Chuck Schumer alike screaming on television as they desperately try to stop the napalm on their suits from burning. You can push the "but look at how worthless the GOP Congress is" and people like me will go "Right on! Warm up the stakes, we're gonna make like Vlad Tepes!"
wwww wrote:
"I agree in that Trump is not a 1960s era John Bircher."
I am not even sure this is true in at least the most important sense- The John Birchers thought the government was infiltrated and controlled by anti-American elites (in their case, Communists). I think a case can definitely be made that Trump and his supporters would agree with this sentiment, but call it the Deep State instead. It is increasingly difficult to argue against this, though the left still likes to claim their attempted coup against Trump wasn't coup at all, but even if it was it was justified (read almost any Inga comment to get the gist).
Control of propaganda organs (which is mainly what the MSM is) is a powerful advantage. Add to this your system of education. Add to this most of your major employers.
The US middle class, or caste, is in a very unequal struggle. David and Goliath is a great analogy.
I am on the side of David, partly because this is what I see as Gods will, and partly it is my own romantic tendency.
“Under Trump the GOP had control of the House, Senate, Presidency for 2 years. The younger generations watched it play out. They observed the legislation that was prioritized.”
Exactly. Younger people are watching, listening and will be voting in larger and larger numbers every year. What has happened under Trumpism is NOT what the great majority of younger voters want.
What is the difference between what the squad is saying what Bernie and Warren are?
What has happened under Trumpism is NOT what the great majority of younger voters want.
Inga the Oracle spent three years on this board humping the Russia collusion hoax.
Inga: "I doubt you have a handle on what the “Squad” wants."
LOL
1) open borders/no vetting with "free healthcare" and free tuition and social security given to all illegals
2) The Green New Deal (destruction of the economy)
3) Infanticide
4) Take away all private health insurance
5) reparations to African Americans, gays, hispanics, women, etc
The list is much longer than this.
Since history began this morning for Inga she probably doesnt remember.
“What is the difference between what the squad is saying what Bernie and Warren are?”
Have you been listening at all?
I doubt you have a handle on what the “Squad” wants. I don’t care much about what they want. I’m much more interested in the real movers and shakers like Warren, like Bernie.
Ah, the old commie and the faux who I think was also a leech.
Interesting you lean to the ideology your father made the effort to get away from.
Or was it because Canada and the US had food and the USSR didn’t?
After everything you still prefer tired old world feudalism.
Have you noticed that Inga the Oracle always fantasizes a chorus that she thinks amplifies her opinion?
The Squad is the ‘68 boomers in modern packaging. Heard it all before. Ad nauseum.
“What is the difference between what the squad is saying what Bernie and Warren are?”
Have you been listening at all?
So there must be a lot things, then just tell us few of them.
Really, Inga is sexually obsessed with Trump.
A lot of women are.
She’s sexually obsessed with the rich bad boy.
This ranting of hers is about her underlying whack off fantasies about Trump.
Geez I was only 8 but heard and lived thru it all already.
"You now have two castes, openly at war, clearly defined, with no trust between them."
Well, that would mean the George and Kellyann Conway are in different castes, yet they are married.
There are many groups within the USA. There are multiple interests, preferences, and objectives. You're mistaking the winner-take-all politics of the electoral process -- no preferential voting -- that tends to result in two major political parties.
Within each of those parties are multiple groups that have come together for an alliance of convenience. These alliances are temporary, which is why you see many disavowing the Presidents and politicians, for whom they voted, after those pols are no longer in office.
"Wouldn't it be interesting if Mrs. Conway would admit that she was the author of that anonymous op-Ed and she was only doing what needed to be done in order to keep close tabs on Trump?"
The Conway marriage is such a strange thing. Is this difference of opinion for real? Maybe they both have diametrically opposed opinions. But it's not just about policy. Their disagreement has gotten personal. How can they operate in their marriage, I wonder? How can they sleep in the same room? It must be strange for them all, especially the kids.
Its unfortunate Inga never got the chance to be the "waitress" in a Ted Kennedy/Chris Dodd "waitress sandwich".
Another in a long long line of misogynist acts by democrats against which ZERO lefty/dem complaints or criticisms have been lodged.
Can you imagine how confident Kennedy and Dodd were in the total complicity of the lefty/LLR media and dem base voters in doing this sort of stuff openly in public for decades?
The very same lefty's that lecture us today using lies against Kavanaugh and Trump, etc.
So much Fen's Law.
So very much.
wwww: "The Conway marriage is such a strange thing."
You have no idea what is happening within their marriage.
If you want to chat about a dysfunctional psycho "marriage", stick with the Clintons.
“What is the difference between what the squad is saying what Bernie and Warren are?”
“Have you been listening at all?”
“So there must be a lot things, then just tell us few of them.”
Warren and even Bernie understand that Americans need to be convinced that their policies will be good for the US and they will be. The “Squad” is young, rash and brash and a bit too radical and that is off-putting to many Americans. This is the HUGE difference. Warren and Bernie are experienced, have sat on many councils and have paid their dues. They are forward looking enough for Progressives, but not radical.
Notice that Inga never answers the question.
Instead she delves back into mind reading for soothing bromides....
Unexpectedly.
“The Conway marriage is such a strange thing. Is this difference of opinion for real? Maybe they both have diametrically opposed opinions. But it's not just about policy. Their disagreement has gotten personal. How can they operate in their marriage, I wonder? How can they sleep in the same room? It must be strange for them all, especially the kids.”
Yes, this can’t be good for their children.
It can’t be the gloom and doom of climate change.
We’re going to freeze!
It can’t be overpopulation and scarce resources because Paul Erich. And I think even the UN has predicted population collapse around 2030-2050. Unless that changed.
It can’t be DDT, Rachel Carson.
It can’t be pollution, cos we’ve come a long way baby.
It can’t be mass starvation because BECAUSE of CAPITALISM, it’s down to 10%. The rest is a distribution problem. Whose up for US military action to make sure everyone gets 3 squares a day?
Oh I’m sorry “food security.”
I can give you “food security,” but that doesn’t mean you’re going to eat it or spend the money on food. That pesky free will thingy.
"I am on the side of David"
I'm not really sure how you can see yourself as taking a side in the USA if you've made a choice to not be a citizen. Many have opinions and sentiments and emotional responses. But non-citizens are observers, not political participants.
Side Comment: The GOP calling everything socialist from tax rebates to medicare to maternity leave to social security to Obamacare to Pell Grants is prob. not the best politics
Especially since it is not true. The left stages fake rallies of alleged "Republicans " and "Tea Partiers" with signs like "Hands off my Medicare."
We actually caught one of those fakes at a Tea Party rally in 2010. He walked faster and faster as some of us held signs with an arrow and "Imposter" over him.
They have a difference of opinion, the distinction is matalin didnt browbeat carvel.
Inga is very very "concerned" about Kellyanne's children......
....after labeling Kellyanne a "nazi"..
So very very concerned...
But non-citizens are observers, not political participants.
Aside from the illegals registered to vote in CA. Several million.
Yes, this can’t be good for their children.
Living with a vindictive, hysterical liar like you can’t have been good for your kids, Inga.
“I'm not really sure how you can see yourself as taking a side in the USA if you've made a choice to not be a citizen. Many have opinions and sentiments and emotional responses. But non-citizens are observers, not political participants.”
Precisely.
Like most right wing hillbillies, I'm surrounded in life by Democrats who hate Trump. Some of them, I really like and respect in every other way. I notice that most of the opinions they have against Trump are directly linked to things said in the media and by politicians that are demonstrably untrue. They are often debunked eventually, but the lies stay stuck in their heads. They sometimes (rarely) acknowledge that they had it wrong, but never really let it go, and eventually they repeat it again later like it was never debunked. I think that's becuase the media do the same thing. I know FOX is mostly in the tank for the President, but if these people would just watch some FOX, they would get the other side, which is not always honest either, but you need to at least give it a hearing with an open mind. Most simply will not do that. They have also been told by the media that FOX is just lies. If you watch both MSNBC and FOX with an open mind, you will not hate Trump, but you may come to hate MSNBC.
"Notice that Inga never answers the question."
Commenters should ask more interesting questions. Sexually crude or rude behaviour ought to be ignored. It's not worthy of a response.
“They sometimes (rarely) acknowledge that they had it wrong, but never really let it go, and eventually they repeat it again later like it was never debunked. I think that's becuase the media do the same thing. I know FOX is mostly in the tank for the President, but if these people would just watch some FOX, they would get the other side, which is not always honest either, but you need to at least give it a hearing with an open mind. Most simply will not do that. They have also been told by the media that FOX is just lies. If you watch both MSNBC and FOX with an open mind, you will not hate Trump, but you may come to hate MSNBC.”
I’m here almost everyday. I read what you folks write. Unfortunately there are so few of you who still seem to be thinking rationally.
wwww: "I'm not really sure how you can see yourself as taking a side in the USA if you've made a choice to not be a citizen."
The same way the democrats enlisted the help of the Brits and Italians and Ukrainians and Australians and Steele's Russian/Putin pals to spy on and help frame Trump and his campaign.
Hey, remember in 2004 when the dems asked foeigners to call Americans to ask them to vote that "nazi" GW Bush out of offce?
Good times, good times...
History began anew 15 minutes ago.
Inga is a bloodthirsty lout who traffics is the most vicious sexually crude and rude attacks on every Republican office holder or candidate.
Fabricated sexual crimes are her stock in trade.
She’s just getting a taste of her own medicine.
“Notice that Inga never answers the question."
“Commenters should ask more interesting questions. Sexually crude or rude behaviour ought to be ignored. It's not worthy of a response.”
I actually did answer Bagoh’s question at 11:55 AM. Drago was so busy typing the same boring types of canned responses he didn’t see my answer before commenting.
Warren and Bernie are experienced, have sat on many councils and have paid their dues. They are forward looking enough for Progressives, but not radical.
You mean like how to work the system and get rich off of other people? For decades?
3 houses for someone who “cares” and a wife who managed to blow thru $12 billion and threw people out of work? And who—Inga—should actually have the law and IRS investigate that disaster, but the wife is protected.
Then there’s the one who for personal gain, has no honor to make it on her own and I think ran a lucrative business out of her Harvard office.
Did she pay her staff extra? Did she pay expenses and rent?
bagoh20 said...
They are often debunked eventually, but the lies stay stuck in their heads. They sometimes (rarely) acknowledge that they had it wrong, but never really let it go, and eventually they repeat it again later like it was never debunked. I think that's becuase the media do the same thing. I know FOX is mostly in the tank for the President, but if these people would just watch some FOX, they would get the other side, which is not always honest either, but you need to at least give it a hearing with an open mind.
7/21/19, 12:02 PM
Fox is trying to swim away from the miles of blue ocean that made its business, and become just another liberal cable channel with Hannity/ Carlson as the uncouth barkers sent to beef the audience numbers. I'd rather see the politically aware ridiculed for getting their information from the teevee, but I also don't care if the Democrats bother getting their news from intelligent sources. The more ignorant they are, the more they'll be blind to the intense radicalization their actions cause within Donald Trump's conservative base.
Inga: "I’m here almost everyday. I read what you folks write. Unfortunately there are so few of you who still seem to be thinking rationally."
Wpuld it help you if we put everything in a hoax dossier?
You know, like the one you still believe in even though it has been utterly and completely debunked.
I’m here almost everyday. I read what you folks write. Unfortunately there are so few of you who still seem to be thinking rationally.
Says the fool who spent three years on this site flogging the Russia collusion hoax.
I'll take the "bombastic hot-head" over the guy who started a regime change war in Libya that ended in the return of chattel slavery in the that country. And over the guy who used drones to kill American citizens. (Not that I have pity for terrorists, but if soldiers get thrown in prison for breaking rules, why does the President get a pass?) And I prefer the guy who insults and mocks the press over the one who spied on AP reporters (and others).
Hot talk but operates cool vs cool talk but operated hot. Not a hard choice.
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