Althouse: At the Sun Corn Café...

July 29, 2019

At the Sun Corn Café...

... the conversation goes on long after sunset.

90 comments:

SDaly said...: So Dershowitz met Epstein in 1996, then in early 1997 wrote an op ed arguing that the age of consent should be 15, and perhaps 14. Advocacy for a friend or for himself?; 7/29/19, 8:33 PM
traditionalguy said...: Real pretty gasolene you got there.; 7/29/19, 8:33 PM
Quayle said...: Driving west.; 7/29/19, 8:47 PM
Ann Althouse said...: We're not on a trip. It was a one-day drive.; 7/29/19, 8:48 PM
Sebastian said...: So, as I checked on what's new with the Bachstiftung, I saw that they just uploaded a performance of BWV 24, "Ein ungefärbt Gemüte." Not sure I had ever heard that one. Which is one great thing about my namesake: his output is so enormous, that even a fan can still discover new pleasures. I am too deplorable to keep up with popular culture, but can any recent stuff touch even second-rate Bach (rated 2 by Simon Crouch, anyway)?; 7/29/19, 8:50 PM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: The second worst thing this past Saturday night was having the police knock on the door to inform me that my 23 year old son had killed himself.

The worst thing was then having to call my wife and let her know.; 7/29/19, 8:51 PM
Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...: @Ignorance is Bliss

There are no adequate words, but know we hold you in our hearts; 7/29/19, 8:56 PM
readering said...: 'I was down there also, but I'm not considering myself a first-responder. But I was down there. I spent a lot of time down there with you.'; 7/29/19, 9:01 PM
Big Mike said...: @Ignorance is Bliss, you have our deepest sympathy.; 7/29/19, 9:05 PM
Beasts of England said...: Prayers for your family, Ignorance is Bliss; 7/29/19, 9:05 PM
Tank said...: @ Ignorance

Well, those are two of the worst things for sure.

Tank's best to you.; 7/29/19, 9:08 PM
Ann Althouse said...: Ignorance is Bliss, I am so sorry to hear that. You have my sympathy.; 7/29/19, 9:08 PM
Meade said...: We’re so sorry for your tragic loss, Ignorance.; 7/29/19, 9:09 PM
Narr said...: Damn, IiB!

Narr
Damn!; 7/29/19, 9:15 PM
narciso said...: Prayers for you, iib; 7/29/19, 9:25 PM
CWJ said...: IIB, what can I say, words fail.

readering, WTF?; 7/29/19, 9:25 PM
Guildofcannonballs said...: Very sad Ig, I pray for you and your family.; 7/29/19, 9:26 PM
gilbar said...: i'm sorry for you IiB, your son and your family our in my prayers; 7/29/19, 9:30 PM
Merny11 said...: I can’t imagine. So very very sorry. You and your family are in my prayers.; 7/29/19, 9:33 PM
narciso said...: That happened to be a neighbors son a few months back, the odd thing is we had just seen the young man here the week before, they haven't spoken of how it happened, and I understand.; 7/29/19, 9:39 PM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: Thank you everyone for the kind words. They are appreciated.; 7/29/19, 9:42 PM
Robt C said...: Ignorance, (That name seems really appropriate right now),
I can't tell you how much your post kicked me in the gut.
I hope and pray you and your wife can work thru this terrible tragedy.
Words fail.
God Bless.; 7/29/19, 9:46 PM
David Duffy said...: I'm sorry for loss Ignorance is Bliss. Your son. 23 years old. A young man. Can you tell us something about your son?; 7/29/19, 9:49 PM
stever said...: No greater pain could I experience. My deepest condolences IiB; 7/29/19, 9:49 PM
Birkel said...: Ignorance is Bliss,
Please accept my condolences.
What a terrible tragedy.; 7/29/19, 9:52 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: I'm so terribly sorry, IIB. Your family will be in my family's prayers.; 7/29/19, 9:57 PM
chickelit said...: @Ignorance: My sympathies.

We’re burying my mother tomorrow, but she was 82. Loss of loved ones is always hard but the double whammy of 23 AND suicide is unfair.; 7/29/19, 9:58 PM
PJ said...: My heart breaks for you, IiB, and for your wife. Condolences to both of you.; 7/29/19, 10:04 PM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: My son had struggled with depression, had a tendency to make bad decisions, and for a while chose to have very little contact with the rest of the family. Then, about two and a half years ago he seemed to really get his act together. He worked really really hard in college, going from poor grade to almost straight 'A's with a very challenging course load, and graduating cum laude and multiple honors this past May. Over that time he reconnected with family. He didn't have a job lined up when he graduated, but a few weeks ago he did find something, making more than enough money, which he would have started next month.

By any objective measure, he seemed to be in a good place, much better than he had been in the past. My wife and other son went to dinner with him Saturday night, and he seemed fine. They even made plans to get dinner again the next night.

An hour or two later, he was gone.; 7/29/19, 10:07 PM
Michael K said...: The second worst thing this past Saturday night was having the police knock on the door to inform me that my 23 year old son had killed himself.

Devastating. My sympathy. A young man, a son of a friend, did this about 10 years ago. Nice kid but had a drug problem. College grad and tennis scholarship.; 7/29/19, 10:09 PM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: As best as we've been able to piece together, there was a guy he really respected and looked up to. Though of him as a real role model, help people in need. Earlier on Saturday my son learned that this person had actually been deceptive to my son, and destructive to people my son cared about.

I think it broke his heart, and he didn't know how to deal with it.; 7/29/19, 10:14 PM
buster said...: Ignorance is Bliss: My condolences and prayers; 7/29/19, 10:15 PM
Rick said...: I think it broke his heart, and he didn't know how to deal with it.

Incredibly sad, it sounds like he cared a lot about others. I hope you both make it through as best you can.; 7/29/19, 10:17 PM
David Duffy said...: Thanks Ignorance is Bliss for your thoughts about your son. He sounds like a great guy to know. What was his first name?; 7/29/19, 10:18 PM
David Begley said...: IIB

Going to Mass on Wednesday and will pray for your family.; 7/29/19, 10:19 PM
Mrs. X said...: “Not thine but ours the grief.
All pain is fled from thee.
And we are weeping in thy stead;
Tears for the mourners who are left behind
Peace everlasting for the quiet dead.”

Prayers for you and your family.; 7/29/19, 10:32 PM
effinayright said...: @IIB:

What a sad story, one that makes our daily bickering here about trivial and ephemeral stuff all the more ...inconsequential.

Once the shock wears off, I hope you and your family don't put your thoughts into an infinite loop of "what ifs" and "if onlys".

Pascal famously said, “The heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of."

Sometimes we face the inexplicable, and that's all we're left with.

My sincere condolences.; 7/29/19, 10:39 PM
TickTock said...: One can only weep.; 7/29/19, 10:46 PM
J. Farmer said...: How I Almost Got Arrested By the Orange County (Orlando, FL) Sheriff's Office Tonight

No good deed goes unpunished. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. These cliches become cliche for a reason. Allow me to explain.

Earlier today a friend who lives in NYC contacted me. Her ex-husband recently passed away. She needed to get her 14-year-old daughter (who lives in FL) up immediately. She booked her a ticket and needed someone to escort her. I foolishly agreed.

My friend's daughter lives in Spring Hill, FL, about an hour north of me. I needed to pick her up and take her to Orlando International Airport, which is about 2 hours from her home. I obliged. I have never checked in an unaccompanied minor before and only after getting to ticketing (at 6:30pm) did I learn that I would need to remain with her until her flight, departing at 8:30pm, was airborne. My friend's daughter was TSA Pre-check, and even though I have a known traveler number and Global Entry, because I was not actually traveling that day, I was not eligible to use either and thus was forced to use standard TSA screeninb with the rest of the mutants. The only possessions I had were my car keys, my wallet, and my phone. After standing in a ridiculous line with a bunch of morons, I finally go to the front of the line, at which point some TSA bozo pointed to my keys and said, "Throw that in the trash!" I had forgotten that attached to my keys was a pocket knife that had belong to my great-grandfather (which he purchased in 1912).

I let the gentleman know U was only going through on a gate pass and had no ticket to board any plane. "Doesn't matter. Can't take that past here. It needs to go in the garbage." After some back and forth, he finally cut me some slack and said, "Just leave it here. When you're done, come back through and pick it up."

My friend's daughter's flight was delayed from 8:30pm to 9:15pm. It was almost 9:30pm before I finally left the gate. I went back to TSA and walked up to where the earlier gentleman told me to come. "Hey hey, sir, what are you doing?" shouted some other TSA agent. I explained the situation, which he paid almost no attention to before barking, "Yeah, I don't know about any of that, you need to go to stand in line." So I went in a line with 6 people in font of me, waited the nearly 20 minutes it takes the Orlando TSA morons to process that many people and then got up to the security line. The same TSA idiot I talked to earlier started barking at me about taking off my shoes when I began telling him my situation. Before I even finished the story, he was raising his voice at me. SO of course I started raising my voice at him. A female TSA agent came over and backed him off and told me to "calm down" about nine times, despite every time she said it, I would say, "I'm totally calm."

I explained to the female TSA agent the situation, and she said, "Even if he told you that, which I doubt, that's not our policy and your knife should be in the trash." That obviously incensed me, and she went away for all of one minute and came back and said, "I don't see any knife anywhere. It may be lock up but I don't have a key." We went back and forth with raised voices, while Orange County Sheriff's deputies approached and surrounded. We were basically screaming back and forth but once I called her a "fat ugly affirmative action spic," one of the deputies interjected and told me to leave immediately or I'd be arrested for disturbing the peace. So I left. Now I'm home. And that's the rest of the story.; 7/29/19, 10:54 PM
Seeing Red said...: I am soooo sorry, iib.; 7/29/19, 10:55 PM
Francisco D said...: @Ignorance is Bliss

Please accept my deepest sympathies as well as my advice to find someone to help you and your wife talk this through.

There are a lot of complicated and toxic emotions attached to suicide. Please do not let them fester.; 7/29/19, 11:02 PM
J. Farmer said...: The second worst thing this past Saturday night was having the police knock on the door to inform me that my 23 year old son had killed himself.

Jesus, I hadn't read this before posting my little rant. Seems quite inconsequential by comparison. I am deeply sorry for your loss.; 7/29/19, 11:04 PM
Charlie Eklund said...: @IiB

Please accept my heartfelt condolences. You and your family will be in my prayers. May God’s grace be upon you.; 7/29/19, 11:26 PM
Jay Vogt said...: @iib, that's just the worst imaginable news and ensuing responsibility. To hear and have say such a thing to your wife and his mother. I wish we could carry some of that grief for you. God bless.; 7/29/19, 11:29 PM
Drago said...: IIB, I have no words.

Deepest condolences.; 7/29/19, 11:32 PM
FrankiM said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/29/19, 11:48 PM
readering said...: J Farmer: For future reference (not that you'll ever volunteer to accompany a minor to the airport again) the airlines will provide that service at both ends for a fee. I have watched it happening on flights, including sitting next to a six year old on one flight this year.

PS I will be flying from Orlando in September. Like you I have global entry, but my partner (as they say these days), who will accompany me, does not. I have read that Orlando TSA can be a nightmare. Better after school starts?

PPS I mistakenly brought a swiss army knife to airport security once and didn't want to trash it. I was shown where I could fedex to myself. (Although I elected to pay to check a bag instead.); 7/29/19, 11:52 PM
Yancey Ward said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/29/19, 11:54 PM
Yancey Ward said...: Ignorance is Bliss,

I am so sorry for your loss.; 7/29/19, 11:56 PM
readering said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/29/19, 11:58 PM
readering said...: Ignorance is Bliss. Deepest Condolences. Such a terrible loss. But I think it is healthy you can discuss it. The suicide of a grandmother at 55 (me just a pre-schooler) was covered up ("stroke") for decades, which was definitely not the the thing to do for all concerned.; 7/30/19, 12:01 AM
J. Farmer said...: @Readering:

does not. I have read that Orlando TSA can be a nightmare.

More than a nightmare. In the words of Donald Trump, MCO is a "shithole." My friend's daughter has equalizing problems and wanted to buy gum before the flight. Orlando International doesn't permit any vendors to sell gum. Too much of a hassle for maintenance (ie too many people sticking their chewed gum everywhere). New America's going to be great!

PPS I mistakenly brought a swiss army knife to airport security once and didn't want to trash it. I was shown where I could fedex to myself. (Although I elected to pay to check a bag instead.)

I offered that. Let me mail it to myself. I also offered to leave it with a Ruby Tuesday waitress. No can do. TSA and DHS are absurd examples of do somethignism. We have to do something! This is something. Let's do it!; 7/30/19, 12:02 AM
etbass said...: Farmer, I symphathize. I have my own horror story from a trip from Anchorage to Atlanta just this weekend, and our TSA. No point in the boring details, just to say there has to be a better way to secure our airlines than TSA.; 7/30/19, 12:10 AM
readering said...: Hmm. Last week at a family funeral in Jacksonville I got to the airport and found I mistakenly had my brother's suit jacket. I seriously considered leaving it with the arrivals "welcome" counter but fortunately my brother returned in time.; 7/30/19, 12:38 AM
Nichevo said...: Ingachuck'stoothlessARM said...
@Ignorance is Bliss

There are no adequate words, but know we hold you in our hearts

+eleventy, Ig. I'm so sorry for your loss.

...

J. Farmer, I regret your suffering also, in due proportion.; 7/30/19, 1:44 AM
Crazy World said...: Big huge Aloha Blessings to you and yours IIB, I am so so so sorry.; 7/30/19, 2:10 AM
Howard said...: IIB: I am very sorry for your loss.; 7/30/19, 2:25 AM
Crazy World said...: J Farmer just last month or so I was on an inter island flight here in Hawaii and they dug through my carry on and nabbed my NRA pocket knife. I am still irritated! I will buy another.; 7/30/19, 2:27 AM
Owen said...: IiB: I can only echo others’ words. This death thing keeps happening and despite the practice we are never ready. Especially for losing the young; even more especially by their own hand. So terribly unfair. Prayers up for you and yours.; 7/30/19, 4:20 AM
rehajm said...: So sorry to hear about your loss ignorance. Your posts always make me happy and it is sad to hear of tour pain.; 7/30/19, 4:22 AM
rehajm said...: Farmer it might be worth a trip back to retrieve it. Friends have recovered items left at the checkpoint before- worth a shot they actually set it aside...

I had a new little leatherman in my fishing gear that TSA in Bozeman found. It said tsa approved in the Amazon description but apparently that was before all knives were banned. Anyways the agent could not have been nicer, directing me to where I could go to fedex it home, and allowing me to remove the caribeaner from it when I chose to leave it.

Somebody in line was stopped for some kind of expensive shampoo one time and there were grumbles about having to part with it. ‘Its really your least expensive option’ was the agent’s reply. That’s now a recurring meme with my spouse.; 7/30/19, 4:32 AM
Anne in Rockwall, TX said...: Bliss, I am so sorry for the pain you and yours are going through. I pray that you may find peace although it may not come easily.; 7/30/19, 4:38 AM
tim maguire said...: IIB, I’m sorry to hear about your son. For him, for your wife, and for you. I wish I had something else to say, but I don’t.; 7/30/19, 5:07 AM
tim maguire said...: Farmer, most of my interactions with TSA are just fine, but every now and then...I had one like that at the Buffalo border. It was a simple misunderstanding that could have been easily resolved if they would just calm down and listen to what I’m saying. But no, they surrounded me, completely ignored what I was saying, and kept demanding that I calm down. (I was completely calm the entire time, even as I got more annoyed at their obnoxious attitude, because I know how to act in front of cops.)

At the time, my wife and 4-year-old daughter were being questioned in a back room. Even though I never raised my voice, never used a disrespectful word, and never made a threatening action, they actually went to my wife and told her I was freaking out and somebody needs to do something about me or there will be bigger problems.; 7/30/19, 5:14 AM
stevew said...: IIB: Very sorry for your loss.; 7/30/19, 5:33 AM
Quayle said...: IiB, thinking about you and your wife and family again this morning.; 7/30/19, 5:57 AM
Rusty said...: IisB
So very, very sorry for your loss. I pray that you find comfort.; 7/30/19, 5:59 AM
iowan2 said...: IIB words of condolences are all I got. I can't imagine anything worse than a childs suicide. Prayers; 7/30/19, 6:17 AM
Marcus Bressler said...: You should never have to bury a child.

I cannot imagine.

Please accept my condolences. I will pray for you all.

THEOLDMAN; 7/30/19, 6:50 AM
tim in vermont said...: “So Dershowitz met Epstein in 1996, then in early 1997 wrote an op ed arguing that the age of consent should be 15, and perhaps 14. Advocacy for a friend or for himself?”

I appreciate everything Dersh has done to argue for rule of law and the impartiality of justice in the case of the Trump witch hunt, I really do, but I am not ready to let him off the hook either.; 7/30/19, 6:50 AM
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...: I worry about the state of this country and about how other humans treat each other, as reflected in online behavior, Twitter, etc. I was sitting with my teenage daughter at a rest stop outside of Waco last weekend watching the people come and go, all different demographics and no doubt differences of tribe and opinion, but as I told my daughter, if one of us was to collapse on the ground with a medical emergency every one of these people would immediately rush to our aid, no questions asked. It's how we're truly wired and it's a good thing to remember.

IiB, I don't know you just like I don't know anyone else here but I see you and I see your devastating loss and I care about what is happening to you and your family. If you need to reach out outside of your normal in real life circle, for any kind of support or listening ear, make an email address and post it here. You'll hear from me and likely others as well. I realize that at this point it seems like not anything in the world could make this better, but I hope that feeling alone doesn't have to make it worse. I pray that you have support to get you through this time and if any of us can be a part of that safety net, please let us know.; 7/30/19, 6:53 AM
tim in vermont said...: IIB, I can’t imagine. I almost lost my daughter on the operating table, that was seven years ago and I still tear up randomly when I think about it. I’m so sorry.; 7/30/19, 7:08 AM
tim in vermont said...: One of the hardest things about grief is telling people. It seems to happen all over again every time.; 7/30/19, 7:09 AM
stlcdr said...: Cornography.; 7/30/19, 7:10 AM
h said...: Sympathy and prayers for commenter IiB.; 7/30/19, 7:21 AM
Yancey Ward said...: MisplacedPants,

Well said.; 7/30/19, 7:38 AM
William said...: IIB: You have my sympathy. I don't even know how one would begin to process something like that. It's just awful.; 7/30/19, 7:40 AM
MayBee said...: Ignorance is Bliss- my heart breaks for you and your wife. xoxox; 7/30/19, 8:13 AM
MayBee said...: IiB, I don't know you just like I don't know anyone else here but I see you and I see your devastating loss and I care about what is happening to you and your family. If you need to reach out outside of your normal in real life circle, for any kind of support or listening ear, make an email address and post it here. You'll hear from me and likely others as well. I realize that at this point it seems like not anything in the world could make this better, but I hope that feeling alone doesn't have to make it worse. I pray that you have support to get you through this time and if any of us can be a part of that safety net, please let us know.

Exactly. Take us up on this if you need it, IiB.; 7/30/19, 8:14 AM
Michael K said...: TSA and DHS are absurd examples of do somethignism. We have to do something! This is something. Let's do it!

Some of this is the "drunk with power" thing. Especially with the liquids ban.

The Border Patrol/DEA can be as bad. I posted an amazing experience we had 12 years ago at the check point on the way to Tucson. I felt we might have been in real danger. In the middle of the desert at night.

The same daughter had lip gloss confiscated by a TSA agent a year or two later.; 7/30/19, 8:21 AM
Michael K said...: Farmer, I read your rant. On TSA, the office for the Orange County CA airport TSA was in our building. The building was nice and had a little cafe outside with chairs where some of us would stop for lunch rather than get a car to go out. When the TSA office got going, the agents would cluster around that cafe, smoking and never buying anything but occupying the chairs. About a year later, the guy who owned the cafe told me he was selling or closing. They had driven him out of business. They were minimum wage types that you see in areas you usually don't go.; 7/30/19, 8:33 AM
Andrew said...: @Ignorance,
So, so sorry. Words fail. You and your wife are being prayed for. May you be comforted in your grief and loss.; 7/30/19, 8:42 AM
Owen said...: I Have Misplaced My Pants @ 6:53: What you said. I think a lot of us would be grateful for the chance to be helpful.; 7/30/19, 8:59 AM
Fernandinande said...: Cornography.

I know hard pore corn when I see it.; 7/30/19, 9:26 AM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: I appreciate the offers for help, and I promise I will take people up on this, if needed.

Fortunately I have a very caring and supportive family, so I probably have all the direct support I will need.

Nothing will ever make this right, but time will make it easier to bear.; 7/30/19, 9:28 AM
James K said...: @IiB Just saw this. Deepest sympathies.; 7/30/19, 9:53 AM
Stephanie Delmonico said...: May the good Lord grant you and your family strength and peace.
My 21 y.o. son is home for the summer from college.
I may cry when I see him later.

So very sorry for your loss.; 7/30/19, 12:01 PM
Original Mike said...: I'm so sorry, IiB.; 7/30/19, 4:21 PM
JMW Turner said...: Ignorance, I lost my oldest daughter to cancer three years ago. I can say it gets better over time with the intensity fading, but various cues in your day to day life will bring the regrets and what ifs to the fore. Family, friends, and religion can be a panacea. Condolences.; 7/30/19, 6:43 PM
Dave Begley said...: IIB:

Went to Mass at St. John's on the Creighton campus today. It is the Feast Day of St. Ignatius Loyola. I prayed for your son and your family. Sixteen Jesuits con-celebrated Mass. Incense and music.; 7/31/19, 2:32 PM