"... which was also the last day of Passover, the festival of our freedom, when I heard a loud bang in the lobby of my synagogue. I thought a table had fallen down or maybe even that, God forbid, my dear friend Lori Gilbert Kaye had tripped and fallen.... I saw Lori bleeding on the ground. And I saw the terrorist who murdered her. This terrorist was a teenager. He was standing there with a big rifle in his hands. And he was now aiming it at me. For one reason: I am a Jew. He started shooting. My right index finger got blown off. Another bullet hit my left index finger, which started gushing blood.... Then an amazing miracle occurred: The terrorist’s gun jammed.... I am a religious man. I believe everything happens for a reason. I do not know why God spared my life.... I don’t know why a part of my body was taken away from me. I don’t know why I had to see my good friend [Lori], a woman who embodied the Jewish value of
hesed (kindness), hunted in her house of worship.... I do not know God’s plan. All I can do is try to find meaning in what has happened. And to use this borrowed time to make my life matter more.... I pray that my missing finger serves as a constant reminder to me. A reminder that every single human being is created in the image of God; a reminder that I am part of a people that has survived the worst destruction and will always endure; a reminder that my ancestors gave their lives so that I can live in freedom in America; and a reminder, most of all, to never, ever, not ever be afraid to be Jewish. From here on in I am going to be more brazen... And I’m going to use my voice until I am hoarse to urge my fellow Jews to do Jewish. To light candles before Shabbat. To put up mezuzas on their doorposts. To do acts of kindness. And to show up in synagogue — especially this coming Shabbat. I am a proud emissary of Chabad-Lubavitch.... we are obviously Jewish, identifiable by our black hats and beards...."
From
"A Terrorist Tried to Kill Me Because I Am a Jew. I Will Never Back Down. I do not know why God spared my life in my Poway synagogue. All I can do is make this borrowed time matter" by Yisroel Goldstein (NYT).
A dramatic, beautiful essay. Incredibly (though not surprisingly) the top-rated comment at the NYT is:
The terrorist's gun jamming was a miracle? No, a REAL miracle would have been Congress passing common-sense laws so that the terrorist couldn't have gotten such weapons in the first place.
पोस्ट्स
२२३ टिप्पण्या:
223 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»Why are proposed gun laws always referred to as "common-sense" even if they make no sense whatsoever?
A common sense gun law would be requiring schools to have armed personnel. And synagogue too.
A more honest response would be "Congress passing feel-good laws so that law-abiding people couldn't have gotten any weapons in the first place."
No, a REAL miracle would have been Congress passing common-sense laws so that the terrorist couldn't have gotten such weapons in the first place.
'Cause then things would have turned out A-OK, just like they did for the unarmed Jews of the Soviet Union & of Central Europe under Nazi occupation.
Oh, wait....
If I was a Jew, I'd have a basement full of guns. "Yer goin' down with me, ya goyische fuck!"
Doesn't NYT have another anti-Semitic cartoon to publish? Where do they find the time to actually write any articles what with all the jew-hate...
How often do guns jam?
That from the same people who defiantly declare in just about all other matters, "We don't need no laws! We will do as we want regardless of your steenkin' laws!"
"Common-sense" is the refutation of the anticipated argument that you're trying to take our rights away, but it's not a good refutation for people who care about rights.
I've read enough judicial opinions that carve back the scope of rights to know that this is exactly how it's done: You assure the reader that the right exists and will be protected, but then you say the right is not absolute and must be balanced against other interests. Then all you have to do is use your sense about the world to assess the importance of those interests, and you insist that the rights are adequately taken care of even as they are deemed to be outweighed by the counterbalancing interests.
And Scalia's opinion in Heller (the main 2d Amendment case) ends by assuring readers that they don't have to worry about this newly acknowledged individual right -- it won't really mean the end of gun control.
Should the Border Patrol agent not been armed too?
What if the killer had attacked them with a machete? Or a petrol bomb?
The commenter forgets that CA has draconian gun laws.
What "common sense" gun laws is the commenter proposing?
I wonder exactly what "common sense gun law" would have prevented this lunatic from aquiring a firearm.
"If I was a Jew, I'd have a basement full of guns." And if you were Israel, you'd have a basement full of nukes. "Yer goin' down with me" has been the policy for quite some time. It's the apocalyptic version of "never again."
Nonapod said...
I wonder exactly what "common sense gun law" would have prevented this lunatic from aquiring a firearm.
The miraculous kind.
It is a powerful essay. Thank God the gun jammed.
The murderous fool should get the death penalty.
What's really needed is a law that allows everyone to "open carry." Then there would be something to deter the insane who want to kill people.
@AA,
And Scalia's opinion in Heller (the main 2d Amendment case) ends by assuring readers that they don't have to worry about this newly acknowledged individual right -- it won't really mean the end of gun control.
Well, at least in DC, which is what Heller was aimed at, it didn't mean the end of gun control.
In essence, DC, Chicago, etc have simply ignored judicial rulings against their gun control regimens and have proceeded much as before, but with just a little window dressing added.
Much like the southern states after Brown v. Board of Education. Not an analogy District liberals like to hear, but, hey, the shoe fits so perfectly!
New governor Gavin Newsome is refusing to allow the state to carry out executions. But I'm sure he cares what residents think, 'cause he'll tax your thoughts, too.
"I've read enough judicial opinions that carve back the scope of rights to know that this is exactly how it's done: You assure the reader that the right exists and will be protected, but then you say the right is not absolute and must be balanced against other interests"
Slightly OT: looking forward to Justice Gorsuch taking that approach in carving back Roe.
His statement reminds me very much of this
https://lidblog.com/joe-biden-menachem-begin/
To Biden - “I am not a Jew with trembling knees. I am a proud Jew with 3,700 years of civilized history. Nobody came to our aid when we were dying in the gas chambers and ovens. Nobody came to our aid when we were striving to create our country. We paid for it. We fought for it. We died for it. We will stand by our principles. We will defend them. And, when necessary, we will die for them again, with or without your aid.” - M. Begin
Rabbi Yisroel should comment in response to 'top-rated'...
Where White Nationalism and radical Neo-fascist leftist-ism meet. Jew Hate.
A godly Jew, probably Orthodox, perhaps hoping that his fellows will heed the call of Yahweh, Judaism, rather than the call of secular progressivism. Pray for him. If he were to succeed it could make the country great again.
Now, if American Jews were serious, they'd make an issue out of the hundreds of millions of Muslims who feel exactly like that teenager: that a world without Jews is a better world.
I do not know why God spared my life.
Not only am I not dead, but I still have all my fingers - what's up with that? It's a big fat mystery, ain't it? A riddle wrapped in a tortilla.
What idiot thinks that terrorists and criminals follow the law in obtaining their weapons?
The brave man who aggressively screamed, "I am going to kill you" and ran straight at him with full war face on got the shooter's attention away from the Rabbi and froze him with fear so that he dropped the gun and ran away chased outside to his Truck.
The miracle was the shooter being frozen in fear. Semi-automatics do not jam. Only automatics jam. The shooter saw things that stunned him.
Last night's interviews with the Rabbi came out 100% pro Donald Trump for his love of Jews and Israel. What a revolting development that was to the Fake News Media.
Ww have piles of gun laws and they do not seem to stop criminals and terrorists from obtaining guns.
“Common sense” gun law is the attempted scam, as you say, but it’s so lame. The second amendment says that this constitutional right “shall not be infringed”. So, common sense or not, f*ck your gun laws...
Semper fidelis. RIP
What's really needed is a law that allows everyone to "open carry."
Like this unhinged crazy talk: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" ?
It struck me as a tedious essay. It's God's fault for acting in such small changes in probability instead of doing obvious things like he used to do, burning bushes and crap. Now you've got people reading all sorts of things into randomness.
How often do guns jam?
Depends on the gun and the state of the gun as well as the ammunition. There's a reason infantry soldiers are always cleaning their weapons. It increases reliability.
New guns that haven't been fired a lot may be stiff and prone to jamming. In addition their triggers are stiffer and can cause accuracy problems. After shooting a lot of rounds the gun will get less reliable as well. It's dirty from the ammunition. Gas blowback type guns like some AR-15's cam be prone to this. Especially if they use cheap "dirty" ammunition, such as military surplus.
I believe, one of the reasons why the Vegas shooter was effective was that he had a LOT of rifles. As they would jam he could switch to a new one.
As a competitive speed shooter (pistols) I generally try NOT to need to clean my guns before a match, but will clean them after a large practice session 500-1000 rounds. That first shot of the day is going to be on the clock and I need it to go bang.
Note that really reliable fast weapons have loose tolerances (that's what makes them reliable) but that means they have bad accuracy. Soviet Bloc AK-47's for example.
Luckily terrorists are typically not gun people. They rely on terror. They are not expecting anyone to fight back. Criminals don't practice.
The rabbi's invocation of the traditional spiritual term "miracle" provokes in the typical MYT reader instant revulsion. The commenter's contempt-filled ironic use of "miracle" can be seen as defensive dispelling. The secular cult, like many conquerors before them, witches traditional sacred words into curses.
If Smokey the Bear spots a burning bush, he assumes careless campers, not God. That's how we differ from the animals.
How about the 2nd highest rated comment:
"This is the fear of being in a country where the First Amendment allows us to spread hatred and the Second gives us practically unlimited access to firearms."
The left knows that Amendment One and Two go (or stay) together.
Do NYT readers know that revolvers are less likely to malfunction?
Now you've got people reading all sorts of things into randomness.
The shortage of miracles is similar to the shortage of racism.
"A guy shot off my finger! It's a miracle!"
"Somebody said Beyonce sucks - racism!"
Miracles are step 2 in an implausible 3-step plan.
One argument gun-owners hear incessantly regards the 'lack of' regulation regarding guns or that guns are 'less regulated' than cars or a whole bunch of other similarly serious items.
It's patently ludicrous. Guns in the USA are among the most heavily regulated 'household' items out there. I use the word 'household' because that is where guns are predominantly kept, i.e. unlike your car it doesn't really need a public right-of-way to be parked upon or transit through to function.
Guns are kept
- in YOUR house
- in YOUR car
- on YOUR person
These people talk about licensing and insurance without acknowledging the patently ludicrous idea of licensing your washing machine or drill press or insuring your toaster. All of my guns do nothing 99.999% of time all day long in my house except for when I'm carrying (still doing nothing 99.999% of the time) them or taking them to the range. And even then they're still 'heavily regulated'.
The NYT has an interesting juxtaposition, an anti-Semitic cartoon, two of them, and a reader who wants Jews disarmed.
Without the army vet and the Border Patrol agent with a gun, the kid would have reloaded and the Jew slaughter would have continued. When he was confronted by two men, one with a gun, he dropped his rifle and ran.
Like the New Zealand killer, who he admired and emulated, he did not kill himself or risk being killed by someone else (A good guy with a gun), but he surrendered to the cops because he knew they would not shoot him.
In every other realm the left has tried to label what most people believe to be true "common sense" as somehow "racist", "sexist" or some other "-ist".
The shooter saw things that stunned him.
And that can happen as well. How many soldiers in battle will never fire a shot? Almost all of military training is designed to get someone to pull the trigger at the moment required.
"What if the killer had attacked them with a machete? Or a petrol bomb?"
What about a pointed stick?
We could just outlaw knives, like they are doing in the UK.
Blogger Lucien said...
Do NYT readers know that revolvers are less likely to malfunction?
The shooter, just like his hero the New Zealand shooter, used an AR 15 on purpose because he wants to produce gun control. It's in the NZ shooter's "Manifesto" which has been quickly suppressed.
They now let one of the miracles be a card trick for sainthood.
@Rhhardin,
Miracles are step 2 in an implausible 3-step plan.
You know, Rh, in your own spergy way you seem to have missed in all that linguistic philosophy you love to quote that those guys don't cotton much to causality & causal explanations in general.
It just seemed like you needed that pointed out, since we've been on the subject of re-reading texts...
The top-rated comment was weak. Pistols and rifles can be gotten illegally; laws won't stop that.
traditionalguy: Semi-automatics do not jam. Only automatics jam.
Are you sure about this?
He might thank the lady that took the bullet for him and marvel at human generosity, but he's dogmatizing it to a cause outside her, which is demeaning and ungrateful.
Miracle or coincidence? Coincidence is a peculiar characterization of chaos, where the system or process is incompletely or insufficiently characterized, and unwieldy. Both are credible beliefs with a separation of logical domains.
As Henry has already pointed out, that top-rated comment is actually true. But probably not in the way the commenter thought.
Thanks Brian.
God wanted the lady to die so that he could figure out some good work to do.
Killing the lady was God's way of showing he was serious.
This isn’t the first time leftists have wan to disarm Jews.
Religious people don't understand their own religion, mostly.
The Rabbi demonstrates an understanding and respect of her dignity when he acknowledges her faith, her religion (i.e. moral philosophy), and her choice.
@rhhardin,
Religious people don't understand their own religion, mostly.
Just like guys don't understand their women. They need you for that.
a REAL miracle would have been Congress passing common-sense laws so that the terrorist
So fast, so furious. Surely, a double-edged scalpel. Murderers, rapists, terrorists, first.
Religion for self-moderating, responsible men and women. Competing interests to mitigate the progress of others running amuck.
Wouldn't it be even better to give up her life without any faith at all, just out of generosity.
"Well she believed she'd be with God so it wasn't so bad" is not generous.
@SeanF...Anything can happen once. But semi-automatics finish re-chambering another round before the next shot can be pulled. I have never had a round going into the mechanism jam during use. But a firing pin or trigger might wear out once in a blue moon.
Understanding women is learning what not to be surprised by.
Althouse,
"I've read enough judicial opinions that carve back the scope of rights to know that this is exactly how it's done..."
You should be the biggest damn libertarian that ever lived, then.
"Now, if American Jews were serious, they'd make an issue out of the hundreds of millions of Muslims who feel exactly like that teenager: that a world without Jews is a better world."
How do you know "hundreds of millions of Muslims...feel...that a world without Jews is a better world?" What do you think or propose that "serious American Jews" would or should do about this situation you imagine?
readering said...
How often do guns jam?
Depends on the model. Some guns are more likely to jam than others.
The AR15 based on the m4 requires a lot of maintenance and lubrication. Well maintained it performs well. But it takes a lot of gun oil. It jams less than other more expensive rifles, but more than an AK. The AK will fire with sand in it. But it is not nearly as accurate.
If you just pull an M4/AR15 out and fire it clean and dry it will jam on the first magazine most every time. It has a very tight chamber.
I know. Lets force law abiding citizens to turn in their firearms, and we'll let criminals keep them.
Also - lets let illegal entrants enter our nation, unchecked.
Also, Hillary Clinton can set up and use a Private Server while heading the State Department - no consequences whatsoever.
tradguy,
"Semi-automatics do not jam"
What the hell???? you really should restrict yourself to commenting on subjects you actually know something about.
semi-automatics finish re-chambering another round before the next shot can be pulled
Unless they jam.
People do not agree on what common sense is.
According to secular faith, and characterization of human life, generosity is an expression of self-interest. The question then is ulterior motive. It's a philosophical nest infested with Ouroboros.
How often do guns jam?
Depends on the quality of the gun, the quality of the ammunition, and the quality of the shooter, particularly as regards his attention to cleaning his weapon. In the 1960s the US Army Ordnance Corps deliberately sent troops into combat in Vietnam with ammunition prone to fouling and NO CLEANING KITS. God damn every general in the Pentagon during that time frame to the deepest, hottest, pit in Hell.
But getting back to readering’s question, if an inexperienced shooter buys a cheap gun and cheap ammo, doesn’t practice clearing jams, and doesn’t clean it, a malfunction is not all that unlikely.
The Rabbi shows us what FAITH in God does for a man as silly a fanatic as that man may seem to others.(Also see, Hacksaw Ridge.)
At my age, watching courage under fire still draws out deep emotions that an aggressive old mean man is usually accused of lacking in our Feminist Culture.
This old Rabbi is a pure winner in my book.
'A reminder that every single human being is created in the image of God....'
I do not believe this murderer was an 'image of God' type.
Robert Cook said...
How do you know "hundreds of millions of Muslims...feel...that a world without Jews is a better world?" What do you think or propose that "serious American Jews" would or should do about this situation you imagine?
Just go talk to them.
Even better how many Muslim countries have any population of Jews left?
The truth is obvious and undeniable. The problem is Cook agrees with Muslims but won’t admit it. That Israel is the only free country in the Middle East is why the left hates them.
rhhardin,
"he's dogmatizing it to a cause outside her, which is demeaning and ungrateful"
of all the people disagreeing with you, that woman would surely be first in line.
"Common sense" is somehow never defined. Imagine that.
(And somehow the suggestions they end up proposing either wouldn't have stopped the thing they want to claim they would have or ... are "common sense" the same was "just have a God-King as dictator" is.
"Ban all the scary guns" is "common sense" to the Times readership, but they don't get to have it.)
How often do guns jam?
Jams are not uncommon. There many contributing factors, God being only one, but a particularly thorny one. If God intercedes, expect a jam.
Of course God can intercede to prevent jams as well...if he wants to.
Semi-automatics do not jam. Only automatics jam.
Hell I once jammed my lever-action Winchester by using a semi-wadcutter cartridge.
Life is politics, it is the new religion.
Coleridge somewhere reported on travelers who were delayed starting and later learned that the previous travelers were set upon and killed, who then gave thanks to God that he'd spared them. I assume as not understanding their religion very well.
@Big Mike,
Semi-automatics do not jam. Only automatics jam.
Growing up my father had a bolt action .22. If we attempted to use "shorts" as opposed to "longs", the damn thing would jam half the time. That rifle just really didn't like "shorts".
JAMMIN'
And we're jammin' in the name of the Lord
No bullet can stop us now, we neither beg nor we won't bow
Holy Mount Zion:
Jah sitteth in Mount Zion
And rules all creation.
How do you know "hundreds of millions of Muslims...feel...that a world without Jews is a better world?"
I certainly met aging German Nazis who thought so. Young and idealistic when they marched off to war, some never changed.
That rifle just really didn't like "shorts".
Just like Althouse.
I almost posted before reading all the comments.
Plus one on the practice to clear jams. Shooters are usually back in operation quickly. Those that don't practice are out of business.
Yes (you-gun subject-moron) both full auto and semi-autos jam. My (first line) house gun is a revolver.
Sure, sure common sense gun laws. In a recent round of that crap a democratic representative (name forgotten, but interchangeable with so many of the left) suggested a common sense gun control. A reporter asked if it would have prevented the tragedy that had just occurred. He responded, "So what if it would not have made a difference".
Yeah, let's "DO SOMETHING!"
Luckily terrorists are typically not gun people. They rely on terror. They are not expecting anyone to fight back. Criminals don't practice.
Yep.
One thing about guns jamming I left out. The Magazine is a huge component. Cheap magazines cause a lot of jams.
The bullet can also cause problems. If the bullet is too large/small for the chambering.
Powder loads are also an issue. Too much powder can knock the timing of the action off. Too little powder and you don't get enough energy to complete the action.
If the Gas return valve is on the wrong setting depending on the rifle there will be problems.
There is a lot going on in these systems. I would expect untrained people to fuck it up. It would be a surprise if they didn't.
It's time for all places of worship to wake up & employ proper security measures. Same with our schools.
I attend a smallish non-denominational church. I used to attend a large church. The large church had a police car out front every Sunday, with at least one uniformed cop inside.
At the smaller church - I learned that at least 3 people have concealed carry permits and they are there, in the lobby, for the express purpose of guarding the flock. Really, we are all sitting ducks to some anti-religious bigot.
Churches, synagogues, mosques, schools - these are open campuses. The best way to not think about a gun, is to make sure the good guys have guns. However you manage to do that.
Commonsense gun laws? Well Chicago has them in spades and it is murder central, with Democrats killing Democrats daily on the south side of Chicago.
A godly Jew, probably Orthodox, perhaps hoping that his fellows will heed the call of Yahweh, Judaism, rather than the call of secular progressivism. Pray for him. If he were to succeed it could make the country great again.
Hear, hear! Let Christians and Orthodox Jews come out of the closet and make themselves more, not less, visible. Of course we'll be better targets but skulking around in fear of Progressive reprimand and extremist terror is shameful and does not glorify God.
It takes a committed stupidity to believe laws could prevent someone trying to commit murder from getting a guns.
traditionalguy: Semi-automatics do not jam. Only automatics jam.>
I guess I'm gonna have to have a serious talk with my semi-auto that doesn't like to feed steel case Russian ammo.
traditionalguy: @SeanF...Anything can happen once. But semi-automatics finish re-chambering another round before the next shot can be pulled.
Sure....but a jam is when the rechambering never finishes, for one reason or another. It happens with semi-autos. Maybe not as often (in terms of number of rounds cycled between jams) as with full autos, but it certainly happens.
Given the fact that most guns are semi-autos, I'd bet more semi-auto jams occur every year than full-auto jams.
Blogger readering said...
How often do guns jam?
It is not infrequent. It depends on many things: quality of weapon, condition of weapon, quality of ammunition, and the way the shooter holds the weapon. There are probably many other factors.
Pray for him. If he were to succeed it could make the country great again.
2 Chron 7:14
Blogger SeanF said...
traditionalguy: Semi-automatics do not jam. Only automatics jam.
Are you sure about this?
Not true, as others have pointed out. The Belgian train terrorist's gun jammed and the US service guys could take him down.
My AR 15 will jam once in a while, usually a stove pipe. Ditto for my 1911 and 1911 380. My Walther P 38 never jams.
Probably dry or dirty. Magazines, also pointed out above, are often the cause of jams.
My most frequent "jam" used to be not fully seated primers. All the firing pin did was seat it fully. Click. WTF. Seconds ticking...
Then I replaced the primer seating plunger on my press.
"In every thing give thanks:" (I Thess 5:18). There, see how that fits, Rh.
Underreported Trump call to rabbi. I wonder why?
The rabbi injured in the California synagogue shooting on Saturday said he found comfort in a personal call from President Donald Trump.
Rabbi Yisroel Goldstein of Chabad in Poway described the 10- to 15-minute conversation with Trump as meaningful.
"He was just so comforting," Goldstein said at a press conference Sunday afternoon. "I’m really grateful to our president for taking the time and making that effort to share with us his comfort and consolation.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/04/28/california-synagogue-shooting-donald-trump-call-comfort-rabbi/3613078002/
If I were the rabbi, I'd learn to pull a trigger with my middle finger.
Semi-automatics do not jam.
False. All types of firearms can "jam", depending on what one means by a jam, including a muzzleloading flintlock musket. People who know firearms seldom or never use the term because it is insufficiently diagnostic. Instead, they use terms which describe the malfunction more precisely. The most common type of "jam" is a failure to feed (FTF) which is typically caused by a defect in the magazine, and effects automatic and semi-automatic firearms equally. Less common but more serious is a failure to extract (FTE) which effects semi-automatics, automatics, and manually operated (bolt or lever-action) arms. More catastrophic yet are out of battery ignitions and barrel obstructions. One usually experiences only one of these.
The terrorist's gun jamming was a miracle? No, a REAL miracle would have been Congress passing common-sense laws so that the terrorist couldn't have gotten such weapons in the first place.
Arschloch.
The real miracle would be the smart ones finally understanding criminals and bad guys will always get guns.
If the gun had not jammed, then the rabbi would most likely be dead. And we'd be mourning him, too.
But you know what other miracle happened? Oscar Stewart, the man who ran toward the gunfire and screamed "I'm going to kill you" at the shooter, causing him to flee. This allowed the border patrol agent to fire into the car.
Stewart claims "The Hand of God" compelled him to do so.
Michael K. wrote: My AR 15 will jam once in a while, usually a stove pipe
Your rifle may be under-gassed. Have a gunsmith check the gas block, a very slight shift in its alignment can obstruct the system enough to upset the timing.
How do you know "hundreds of millions of Muslims...feel...that a world without Jews is a better world?"
Because they say so? And sometimes write editorials about it?
When someone tells you they intend to kill you, believe them.
If I were the rabbi, I'd learn to pull a trigger with my middle finger.
The 'middle finger salute' is derived from the defiant gestures of English archers whose fingers had been severed by the French at the Battle of Agincourt.(disputed)
One factor in the popularity of the AR platform is that it's very easy to buy components separately and assemble a rifle to one's own personal specs. One common side effect is the mismatch of parts-- barrel length, recoil spring, trigger, gas block, bolt carrier group-- such that the rifle does not operate reliably with a particular cartridge. This can usually be ironed out with a few trips to the range. Possibly Earnest took this route without really putting the gun through its paces, making a malfunction somewhat inevitable.
This is a magazine issue.
Most people use the term stove pipe to refer to a partially ejected case stuck between the bolt carrier and the ejection port, like this. Mostly this is a timing issue, possibly gas system related or action spring/buffer related, though a corroded ejector spring is a rare cause.
The 'middle finger salute' is derived from the defiant gestures of English archers whose fingers had been severed by the French at the Battle of Agincourt.
I doubt the French did much finger severing at Agincourt.
hundreds of millions is a big number.
Quaestor said...
Michael K. wrote: My AR 15 will jam once in a while, usually a stove pipe
Your rifle may be under-gassed. Have a gunsmith check the gas block, a very slight shift in its alignment can obstruct the system enough to upset the timing.
I got stove pipe mixed up with double feed. I honestly have never seen a true stove pipe as it is described which is a live round pushed into a chamber occupied by a spent case. I think the extractor has to completely fail in order for this to happen.
These things are tricky and I am trying to figure this one. If the extractor pulls the case from the chamber but doesn't fully kick it out because it is under gassed I don't see how the next round gets driven into the back of the empty case.
It seems like it would end up more of a double feed with one of the casings being empty which I think is what you are describing and which I have seen.
They did it after Agincourt, and it is not the middle finger but the English two-fingered salute (opposite to the V for victory sign).
The French cut the bowstring fingers off Welsh archer prisoners of war before exchanging them.
Michael K. wrote: My AR 15 will jam once in a while, usually a stove pipe
Your rifle may be under-gassed.
Very rare. I happens more often with the 1911s. I have a 45 and a 380, which is my carry gun although I don't carry it. It is in my car.
Revolvers don't jam but as occurred in the Newhall incident, you can run out of bullets. I'm not into Glock 19s but 7 is more than 5 or 6. Plus pushing a button drops the magazine and there is always another one there,
The Newhall incident showed the difficulty in reloading revolvers under fire without a speedloader. Shortly afterward, the CHP became the first major state police department to approve and issue speedloaders. Pence might also have benefited from a backup gun when his primary revolver ran dry.
And the meaning of the Italian double finger salute is very rude indeed!
Known Unknown has it right @12:24. I wish the good rabbi had acknowledged this. Maybe he did. Rushing at a shooter with a long firearm is considered the best ploy and it's nice to know it worked in this instance.
The woman has a name. Lori Gilbert Kaye. Trump called Vaus too.
"Just go talk to them."
All hundreds of millions of them? Have you?
Semi-automatics do not jam. Only automatics jam>>>
As other commenters have noted, they most certainly do jam. I've thought that those who want to restrict magazine capacity because of some ill-founded hope that a mass shooter can be subdued while changing out magazines have not considered the more likely scenario of a gun jamming---and with a larger capacity magazine there is a slight increase in risk of jamming. Virtually every shooter is in a mental "zone" where they are not prepared to deal with clearing a jam; they often discard the weapon if this happens and there also may be time to counter-attack. These shooter are not prepared to deal with anything that disturbs their sick planned scenario, where they stride about dealing death and nothing stands in their way. For example, the wonderfully brave man who charged and screamed at the most recent shooter and caused him to freeze/panic and flee.
"Because they say so? And sometimes write editorials about it?"
All hundreds of millions of them? You heard this from each of them?
Robert Cook said...
"Just go talk to them."
All hundreds of millions of them? Have you?
Talked to enough of them. At least hundreds. Many in their own countries. Some in college. Not may about jews specifically but they make their opinion of infidels in general known.
Exactly zero have said Israel has a right To exist.
The complete elimination of numerous Jewish populations in Muslim countries during our lifetimes is another tell.
They are not subtle. They say the same things over and over again. You know exactly what I am talking about.
Stop playing stupid.
Quaestor said...
This is a magazine issue.
Most people use the term stove pipe to refer to a partially ejected case stuck between the bolt carrier and the ejection port, like this. Mostly this is a timing issue, possibly gas system related or action spring/buffer related, though a corroded ejector spring is a rare cause.
Yeah I got confused with double feed. I never really named my malfunctions. They all seem to come down to "shit is in the way."
I actually haven't seen anything like that picture myself but that picture I would guess to be an under gas issue too. I think I have seen similar but the extractor didn't get the case that far out. The spent case is just kinda jammed up in there.
Blogger LCB said...
traditionalguy: Semi-automatics do not jam. Only automatics jam.>
I guess I'm gonna have to have a serious talk with my semi-auto that doesn't like to feed steel case Russian ammo.
Well go easy on it, it’s entirely possible that it just self identifies as a full auto. Just because it was made without a fire selector switch does not mean that it can’t have one now.
Hundreds, hundreds of millions. Whatever.
Today's Forum: Chabad Meets Guns n' Ammo Magazine.
I love Althouse & her weird denizens!
I actually haven't seen anything like that picture myself but that picture I would guess to be an under gas issue too. I think I have seen similar but the extractor didn't get the case that far out.
The 1911s are not gas operated. I think it might be the magazine that doesn't feed well. In a couple of cases, I just released the magazine and worked the action. Not in a gunfight, of course.
I have several magazines for each gun. I probably just need to keep shooting them and wear in the new magazines.
The AR 15 was a year or more ago and I forget the details. Going to the range today.
Shooting a rabbi isn't anti-Semitic, it's merely a criticism of the state of Israel, and what's wrong with that?
Henry said...
Hundreds, hundreds of millions. Whatever.
Let us take Henry at his word he is here in good faith.
Henry trying to tell us that a wide majority of muslims do not want to wipe out the Jews.
I say that they do.
Based on what?
I have first hand experience in several countries.
I have pretty much every word their leaders have said in public.
I have a complete lack of denunciations of routine muslim violence by muslim leaders.
I have the fact that every muslim country in the world has eliminated their jewish population.
What does Henry have?
Snarky bullshit. One line with five words. In other words Nothing. Zero.
You just aren't as smart as you think you are.
Today's Forum: Chabad Meets Guns n' Ammo Magazine.
Lox, Stocks, and 2 Smoking Bagels
(RIP, no disrespect)
Stop playing stupid.
@Achilles, what makes you think Robert Cook is playing?
What idiot thinks that terrorists and criminals follow the law in obtaining their weapons?
I believe such idiots are also called Democrats
@Francisvo D, I believe you are right.
Re: gun jams
25 years ago, I was testing different revolvers and semi-automatics at the local gun store. Being in the Chicago suburbs, the store is now closed.
In any case, I was warned against .22s, but my ex-wife is a small and not particularly strong person. I tried the .22 first (can't recall the make, but it used rimfire cartridges). I was amazed at my greater accuracy compared to the Glock 17 and S&W .357 Magnum. However, it jammed on the fourth shot. It fired once I put it on the table in front of me.
It was clean gun, so I suspect that cheap ammunition was the culprit. I also suspect that any semi-automatic will misfire with cheap ammo.
[Robert Cook:] How do you know "hundreds of millions of Muslims...feel...that a world without Jews is a better world?"
The Pew Charitable Trusts have done surveys on Muslim attitudes. The googlerizer will track them down for you pretty quickly.
Once having reviewed them, I'll bet you have the answer to your question.
Michael K said...
The 1911s are not gas operated. I think it might be the magazine that doesn't feed well. In a couple of cases, I just released the magazine and worked the action. Not in a gunfight, of course.
I know people like their 1911's. They are like my 1999 toyota camry. They just kinda work. Although the battery zeroed out yesterday morning... Got it jumped, new battery so after it charged back up all is fine.
But it is old.
The last 5 years have seen crazy things happen in the gun industry. There are so many cool new guns and pistols.
And they are just generally better than 1911's.
If you have the money get a 5.7. I know not really new... Or try the USP tactical if you like the .45 round. I am a big fan of FN and have a .45 tactical with a trijicon dot site.
There are a lot of new companies doing great work too.
However, it jammed on the fourth shot. It fired once I put it on the table in front of me.
It jammed or it just failed to fire? If it jammed it seems unlikely it would have gone off after you set it down. A jam means the gun fires and tries to cycle, but the next round does not chamber properly, the action does not close and lock and therefore there's no opportunity for the firing pin to strike the primer. The gun can't go off.
Sometimes you get a what's called a hang fire where the firing pin strikes the primer and there is a delay before the primer ignites the powder charge. If you pull the trigger and nothing happens, its a good idea to just keep pointing the weapon down range for a minute in case its a hang fire. Usually its just a dud and nothing happens.
I honestly have never seen a true stove pipe as it is described which is a live round pushed into a chamber occupied by a spent case.
I think you are describing a brass-over-bolt malfunction. I've encountered such, and discovered that if I used the bench sand bags instead of balancing the weapon on the magazine, then the problems went away!!
Doh!
I always thought stove-pipe failures were confined to gang-bangers that hold their hand guns sideways. The ejector isn't meant to work against gravity.
Beautifully written, and I think 100% a miracle. "Hessed" is one of my favorite words. Lori must have been a great woman to deserve being described that way.
Having fired and reloaded many thousands of rounds in .223, from ammo sources around the world, I would say there are too many unknowns conveyed in the word "jammed". I never experienced one. I will however accept the Good Rabbi's "miracle" evaluation. Having been repeatedly fired at with only the loss of maybe 2 index fingers, (and perhaps a pair of soiled trousers), qualifies in my book.
Remember a time before we had "Reasonable Fertilizer Regulations"? Lots of Okies sure do.
Being rushed by the guy shouting "I'm gonna kill you" with a look on his face indicating he wasn't gonna be denied that pleasure shattered somebody's scenario. Fellas at Synagogues round here wear trench coats or car coats and have flesh colored earpieces. Stout, formidable fellas.
I don’t have much use for an AR or AK rifle, so this is second hand. However I understand that a common issue with an AR is the bolt not going into battery. If that was the issue at the Poway synagogue, then perhaps left alone to work things out the teenaged terrorist might have remembered to use the forward assist. But the second part of the miracle at Poway had a man display his toxic masculinity by charging the terrorist, and he, in turn, displayed the level of courage we have come to expect from terrorists by running like Hell.
I think we need to give these mass killers and domestic terrorists the silent treatment.
Where humans observe action and infer motive, God offers strict scrutiny of action and knows motive. To Lori Gilbert Kaye's credit, she passed the first test, and if she adhered with cause and spirit to the principles of God's religion... moral philosophy, will have proven herself worthy of trust and respect.
I want to know where you guys find your dirty, cheap clip using , bad gas port aligned, mismatched parts AR15 models. I have not been able to find one. But OK, I should never say never even if I believe it.
"Not many about jews specifically but they make their opinion of infidels in general known."
When you say "infidels," you mean "all non-Muslims," right? In other words, similar tribal feelings of superiority and exclusion as Jews calling themselves the chosen people, and Christians saying all non-Christians are going to Hell. (Which is to say, all the fundamentalist Christians who are strongly pro-Israel for their own religious reasons also think Israelis are damned to Hell.)
I want to know where you guys find your dirty, cheap clip using , bad gas port aligned, mismatched parts AR15 models.
$700 at Cabelas!!
I went to the range today and fired 2 boxes of Winchester .45 with no trouble,
The 1911 .380 has had a couple of rounds that did not load properly, one was a stove pipe. That is a new gun and the problem was probably the magazine feed.
My P 38 and Beretta 96 never misfire or jam.
I like the AR 15 and also have a Winchester 30-30. I sold all my shotguns a few years ago, to the annoyance of my younger son.
He will get all my guns anyway and should not be greedy, I have a little Ruger 22 semi-auto but my wife cannot work the action because of her arthritis. I got her a .38 special revolver but it scared her,.
Maybe a shotgun,.
In memory of the victims.
I forgot, I have a Walther PPK but the action rubs my hand web space so I don't shoot it.
I've tried to get my wife to use it but arthritis again.
Robert Cook - Jews are not out there killing anyone. Christians are not out there killing anyone. Anti-Islamic sentiment comes from the actions of radial Islamists. Sorry that's so inconvenient.
Anti-Islamic sentiment comes from the actions of radial Islamists. Sorry that's so inconvenient.
Yes, they worry a lot about Islamophobia after tomorrow's terror attack.
"Robert Cook - Jews are not out there killing anyone. Christians are not out there killing anyone. Anti-Islamic sentiment comes from the actions of radial Islamists. Sorry that's so inconvenient."
Aside from Islamic extremists--a small cohort relative to the global population of Muslims--Muslims are not out there killing people. Americans are out there killing people, one reason at least some Muslims are killing people: action/reaction.
How typical that those condemning any perception of anti-Semitism are brazen anti-Muslims. However it is justified, it is condemning the whole for the ills of a sub-population of the whole.
Pure bigotry.
@RC,
Which is to say, all the fundamentalist Christians who are strongly pro-Israel for their own religious reasons also think Israelis are damned to Hell.)
Not true.
Many of them believe in what is called Dispensationalism. Dispensationalism holds that there are dispensations, i.e. epochs in God's salvific history for humanity.
Standard Christian notions of salvific history holds that there are different epochs presented in the Old Testament (e.g. the epochs of the patriarchs & then the Law) & then there is the all-important distinction of Christian vs Jewish epochs. The Christians are the new Chosen People, a category which is now open to all peoples through conversion. This belief is called supersessionism, & it is the historically mainline belief among the Christian sects on the relationship between Judaism & Christianity.
Dispensationalists, however, hold that God's dispensation to the Jews, i.e. His Covenant that makes them the Chosen People, is running in historical parallel with His dispensation towards the Christians. That is why Dispensationalist Christians are so pro-Zionist & are sometimes so philo-semitic that they adopt Jewish ritual dress for services & will sometimes perform Jewish rituals such as seders with no Jews around.
They take very seriously & literally Numbers 24: "[O Israel], Blessed is he who blesses you, And cursed is he who curses you.”
@Michael K, my wife has a similar problem. The answer was a S&W aluminum J-frame using lower power “cowboy loads.” The cowboy loads are lower recoil, the gun is light and easy to conceal in a purse. Also Uberti makes a smaller than usual — almost a 3/4 scale replica — of the famous Colt Peacemaker of 1873 with smallish grips. It can be bought from Taylors of Winchester, VA, as the Stallion or from Cimarron of Texas as the Model P Jr. It comes chambered in .38 Special, 22 mag, and .22 LR. The .22 LR has a 10 round cylinder. With a 4.7” barrel it is more accurate than a snubbie but still very concealable.
"Many of them believe in what is called Dispensationalism. Dispensationalism holds that there are dispensations, i.e. epochs in God's salvific history for humanity."
Fundamentalists would call this heresy. This is just a way for theologists to create a doctrine to explain away inconsistencies in the Bible.
I forgot, I have a Walther PPK but the action rubs my hand web space so I don't shoot it.
The PPK is an unpleasant little popgun, though the "007" cachet was irresistible when I bought mine about than 20 years ago. After a few range visits to get reasonably familiar with the gun I found myself more and more reluctant to practise with it. I finally parted with it about 18 months ago at a considerable profit, the gun being one of the last German-made examples and therefore desirable as a collector's piece. I replaced it with a Ruger LC9s — a much superior gun IMO. It's lighter, it fits perfectly in my custom-made PPK holster, it's a 9mm Parabellum rather than a .380, and it is much nicer to shoot in spite of being lighter and more powerful than the Walther.
Aside from Islamic extremists--a small cohort relative to the global population of Muslims--Muslims are not out there killing people. Americans are out there killing people, one reason at least some Muslims are killing people
The people who did the slaughter at Charlie Hebdo and the rock concert were Americans? The murderer of Theo Van Gogh, the people who made murder attempts on Kurt Westergaard in Denmark, they were all Americans? Good to know.
@RC,
Did you read the link on Dispensationalism? Darby, Scofield, Newell. These are among the leading lights of the development of the American Fundamentalist movement.
This is just a way for theologists to create a doctrine to explain away inconsistencies in the Bible.
No it's not. It doesn't really explain any "inconsistencies", because it's not at that level of detail. It's a meta-narrative of biblical & post-biblical history. It's the question of what constitutes God's salvific history for mankind.
Hagar wrote: The French cut the bowstring fingers off Welsh archer prisoners of war before exchanging them.
Some sources claim that's a myth.
I don’t have much use for an AR or AK rifle, so this is second hand. However I understand that a common issue with an AR is the bolt not going into battery.
When that happens it is almost always caused by poorly made or defective magazine. Just this morning I shipped two magazines back to the manufacturer for replacement or refund. We'll see. I'll give that Arizona-based company another chance. If the fixed or replaced mags operated as before I'll use only the expense but virtually infallible Pmags from now on.
"... I pray that my missing finger serves as a constant reminder to me."
However that may be, it will be a constant reminder for me.
I have a .22 semiautomatic pistol that jams if I load too many rounds in the magazine. It also stovepipes if I hold it too loosely.
When that happens it is almost always caused by poorly made or defective magazine.
Not in Vietnam.
Not in Vietnam.
In Vietnam, the malfunctions of the M16 rifle (the fully automatic military version of the AR-15) were caused mainly by the ammunition, and occasionally by the habit of grunts to not clean their weapons often enough.
The ammunition problems were two-fold. First, there was the propensity of 5.56mm Ball cartridge M193 to swell after long exposure to extreme humidity. This problem was fully addressed by an improved sealant applied to the inside of the cartridge throat. The second was more insidious. As an economy move on the part of McNamara's bean counters the factory-specified propellant was replaced by Korean War-era ball powder which detrimentally affected the timing of the weapon, which could produce feed and extraction problems, especially in a poorly-maintained weapon.
As for weapon maintenance, Vietnam-era soldiers were not noted for their uniformly excellent devotion to duty, and some soldiers even claimed that their instructors taught them that M16 was "self-cleaning". That may be true because some units are known to have been deployed without cleaning kits for their rifles, which is very strange considering each M16 rifle shipped from the Colt factory with a cleaning kit.
An early cause of M16 malfunctions was the reuse of magazines designed to be single-use and desposable. The original M16 magazine was made of thin-gauge aluminum and came pre-loaded from the factory. However, some bright officers decided it was wasteful to throw away magazines like beer cans and ordered their reuse. These so-called waffle magazines were subject to distortion when GIs tried to reload them by hand, which often produced malfunctions. Fortunately, these disposable magazines were replaced with stronger multi-use mags before the Vietnam war got serious.
”The people who did the slaughter at Charlie Hebdo and the rock concert were Americans? The murderer of Theo Van Gogh, the people who made murder attempts on Kurt Westergaard in Denmark, they were all Americans? Good to know.”
No. Where did I say that? You see or infer meanings that are nowhere in evidence. Reading disability or intellectual dishonesty?
the habit of grunts to not clean their weapons often enough.
The original M 16 with the powder prescribed by Armalite did not need cleaning, or so the soldiers were taught.
The change in powder specs is in the comment above. Lots of jammed M 16s were found with dead soldiers.
intellectual dishonesty?
Cookie you have the market cornered on that with respect to any leftist issue.
Muslims are taught to kill infidels. Not all do but lots are silent cheerleaders for doing so.
That may be true because some units are known to have been deployed without cleaning kits for their rifles, which is very strange considering each M16 rifle shipped from the Colt factory with a cleaning kit.
@Quaestor, change "some units" to "nearly all units," and you'll be closer to the truth. Also the ammunition as issued was prone to fouling and did not match the spring rates in the buffer tube. Early M-16s did not have a forward assist, and the barrels were not chrome-lined (a cost cutting measure that made the rifle very prone to jamming). During Basic Combat Training in early 1969 I had a chance to try out an M-16 on the rifle range as part of our training. I got off three rounds before it jammed so bad it could not be fixed by the Drill Sergeant.
@Cookie, it was a reasonable inference from your quoted comment.
Blogger Quaestor said...
Hagar wrote: The French cut the bowstring fingers off Welsh archer prisoners of war before exchanging them.
Some sources claim that's a myth.
It's in Bernard Cornwell's novel Agincourt, and his research is quite good.
"I have a Walther PPK but the action rubs my hand web space so I don't shoot it."
I had a little SW .38 that did that so I sold it.
Also I have a Glock 19 and SW 1911 .45 and they never jammed, even in competition.
For most people the best self-defense weapon is a sawed off shot gun. Most people can't hit the broad side of a barn with a pistol. Add in stress, and they'll miss every time. However, even the worst shot can hit SOMETHING at close range with a sawed off shot gun.
Plus, its noisy as hell. And you got two barrels.
Obviously, if you're a gun nut and go to the range, any kind of handgun with adequate stopping power will do the trick.
It's in Bernard Cornwell's novel Agincourt, and his research is quite good.
So I've heard, and yet even quite good research is not perfect.
Does Cornwell cite his sources?
Also, the ammunition as issued was prone to fouling and did not match the spring rates in the buffer tube.
As I wrote previously, As an economy move on the part of McNamara's bean counters the factory-specified propellant was replaced by Korean War-era ball powder which detrimentally affected the timing of the weapon, which could produce feed and extraction problems, especially in a poorly-maintained weapon.
@rcocean, the legal minimum barrel length on a shotgun is 18 inches. People have been shot and killed by the FBI over barrels shorter than that.
Early M-16s did not have a forward assist, and the barrels were not chrome-lined (a cost-cutting measure that made the rifle very prone to jamming)
Not jamming, per se. Rusting. (see cleaning kits, non-issue of same). First generation M16s didn't have a forward assist because they don't need one. The forward assist was added at the insistence of the Army. If they had followed the manufacturer's specifications few of the problems with the M16 would have happened. The USAF adopted a version of the AR-15 several years before the M16. Their rifle was known as the Colt Model 601. It had no forward assist, neither did the Air Force request one.
There's another thing to keep in mind. The M16 was adopted and taken into combat barely eight years after the initial design was patented. The M1 was developed over a period of 13 years before it was adopted, and it was not as revolutionary a design as the AR-15. I don't know why your short experience with the M16 was so problematic but knowing how the armed forces will occasionally drop the ball in terms of maintenance, I'd suspect the gun was a leftover M16 and probably ill-used and not an M16A1.
The M16 (and its carbine variant the M4) has now been the standard issue rifle of the United States armed forces for 55 years, 57 if you could the 601. That's longer than any other weapon our forces have used since 1776. There have been numerous pilot programs intended to develop a replacement for the M16, and none of them produced a candidate weapon with superior performance or reliability. The M16 is likely to continue as the front line infantry weapon for many years to come, which is not that unusual from a historical perspective. The Gewehr 98 served fundamentally unchanged for 46 years in the German army, and the British Long Land Pattern musket served 116 years.
Does Cornwell cite his sources?
Only in his book (nonfiction) about Waterloo. I used it as a guidebook for visiting the site,
@Quaestor, we seem to be in violent agreement, up to the point where you beat down on the US soldiers for not cleaning their M-16s. The worthless Ordnance Corps of the 1960s US army generally did not issue cleaning kits.
The soldiers I met later during my two years who were back from Vietnam told me that they never were issued cleaning kits for their M-16s. Should I believe them or should I believe you?
People have been shot and killed by the FBI over barrels shorter than that.
Randy Weaver's wife and son, to be specific.
After they had asked him to saw off a shotgun barrel so they could blackmail him to inform on white supremacists he didn't know.
Another Janet Reno special. At least nobody blew up a federal building in retaliation. The Idaho Grand Jury would like to speak to Lon Horiuchi, though.
told me that they never were issued cleaning kits for their M-16s. Should I believe them or should I believe you?
That's what I have read, as well.
the best self-defense weapon is a sawed off shot gun
When I was in medical school, I gave my wife a "Horse Pistol" which was a short barreled .410 shotgun that took a 3 1/2 inch shell as opposed to the usual 3 3/4 shell. My father had gotten it from some gangster. I don't know if it has a history or if she even still has it.
I was away a lot at night.
@Quaestor, my comment was being typed as your comment at 7:46 was being posted. I had the good fortune to spend my two year hitch in the Pentagon. There have been articles about the Ordnance Corps just totally dropping the ball with respect to arming the Vietnam soldiers. The M-14 was heavy and hard to control on full auto -- I have to take the second point on faith because the M-14s we were issued during BCT were semi-auto only. Placed up against the AK-47 in close quarters jungle fighting, it was a flop. In close quarters jungle fighting you can't take much time to aim -- you're dead before you get the sight picture. I recall that we spent a day on the "Quick Kill" range, learning how to shoot without aiming.
So that left the M-16, which, yes, was rushed into war. But note that work was started on the M-1 carbine from WWII in 1941, after the war was started but before Pearl Harbor was bombed. It was issued to troops in the ETO by the summer of 1942. For that matter I don't know why the US Army couldn't have refurbished stored stocks of the M-2 (select fire version of the M-1 carbine) instead of issuing the M-16 without the latter having been battle-tested in jungle conditions.
I would refer both Big Mike and Michael K. to the exhaustive two-volume history of the M16 titled The Black Rifle by Christopher R. Bartocci. Bartocci has done the research, which is more involved than casual conversations with vets.
I'm rather surprised by Michael K., as a well-trained surgeon and academic medical doctor he knows very well about the difference between what people report as truth and what research reveals.
@Quaestor, I certainly will read it, but with a grain of salt. The distaste I developed for the M-16 that day on the range is partly why even today I don’t have much interest in owning an AR.
I don't know why the US Army couldn't have refurbished stored stocks of the M-2 (select fire version of the M-1 carbine) instead of issuing the M-16 without the latter having been battle-tested in jungle conditions.
Three very good reasons: lethality, accuracy, and controllability. The M1 carbine was battle-tested in the Pacific and found seriously wanting in terms of accuracy. The Winchester 7.62x33 showed a troubling tendency to be deflected by foliage. A Pentagon study of the M1 in combat noted a peculiar absence of data bearing on the accuracy of the carbine at ranges in excess of 50 yards. The record contains a few examples of carbine-aimed fire felling an enemy soldier at this distance or perhaps a little more. But they are so few in number that no general conclusion can be drawn from them. Where carbine fire had proven killing effect, approximately 95 percent of the time the target was dropped at less than 50 yards. As a full-auto weapon, the M2 is extraordinarily difficult to use due to its light weight and conventional layout. Without extensive training, the average soldier could not use the full-auto feature extensively.
It is little known but a fact that the original War Department specification called for a selective-fire .30 caliber weapon weight five pounds. The intent was to develop what in today's parlance is known as a personal defense weapon (PDW) to equip support troops and other personnel not normally involved in infantry combat — vehicle drivers, artillerymen, engineers, etc. — troops who were customarily issued pistols in WWI. The need for the weapon was determined after data gathered during the 1917-1918 period and statistically analyized in the 1920s showed the 1911 pistol kill virtually zero enemy soldiers. The determined that something easier to use but more lethal than the .45 pistol was called for. While the various arms designers were working on their proposals the Army tried an experiment using Thompson M1929 SMG. After being given a brief thirty-minute familiarisation lecture on the Thompson, new recruits were allowed to fire the weapon at standard targets at 50 and 100 yards. The accuracy results were so poor that the selective-fire requirement for the new carbine was dropped.
typo alert: It is little known but a fact that the original War Department specification called for a selective-fire .30 caliber weapon weighing five pounds.
typo alert: The need for the weapon was determined after data gathered during the 1917-1918 period and statistically analyzed in the 1920s showed the 1911 pistol killed virtually zero enemy soldiers.
@Quaestor, the book you referenced costs over $70 on Amazon. Gonna have to pass.
I got mine used for $59, both volumes.
How nice of him to let Jew-Killer President Trump off the hook. I'm sure once the Hater-in-Chief's tenure and toxic rhetoric leads to many more synagogue shootings then his defenders will similarly find even more beauty in their deaths and maimings. It's like they're a collective Jesus for the right wing, or something. Jews being killed and injured due to a right-wing American president's hate speech apparently helps wash his supporters' sins away. It's a very traditional cycle.
To leftists, who are generally religious bigots themselves - the only religious bigotry they choose to SEE is anyone who might openly show critical observations of precious radial Islam.
funny that.
"the best self-defense weapon is a sawed off shot gun"
When I was in medical school, I gave my wife a "Horse Pistol" which was a short barreled .410 shotgun that took a 3 1/2 inch shell as opposed to the usual 3 3/4 shell.
Doctor Killer.
You should have saved your patients some pain (and money and time) and just shot them instead. Caring is a waste for hands that prefer to kill.
All the hate speech I hear is comes from the left. I live in leftwing lala land and old men who look like Bernie Sanders clones run around like crazed lunatics ranting about the Jews.
These are not right wingers.
Funny how racial Islam and Nazis and now modern day leftwing progressives share the same religion.
Also funny how Maduro, who was going to head over to Cuba this AM, was talked out of it by ... wait for it.... the Russians. You know- Obama's old buddies. The common denominator- leftiwng communists are birds of a feather.
Maduro
Hugo
Castro
Castros --> the wealthy asshole communist dictator for life who steal from their own people and force them to Never Leave! and imprison anyone who falls out of line. Sounds like a groovy leftwing paradise.
+ HIllary. She's on board.
All the hate speech I hear is comes from the left. I live in leftwing lala land and old men who look like Bernie Sanders clones run around like crazed lunatics ranting about the Jews.
These are not right wingers.
Facts are stubborn things.
Funny how Trump's presidency leads to a spike in synagogue shootings and a surge in related incidents.
But why should that concern you? You're only concerned about the "hate" that hurts your snowflake FEELINGS! NOT the hate that gets people killed, especially the people that authoritarian tyrants tend to target.
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