I guess "around the neck" means in the general vicinity of the neck. I note that it's not really a hangman's knot. And the model's neck isn't inside the "noose." It's not even inside either loop (because the rope goes up onto the top of her head). Is it an intentional display of a noose?
The quoted headline is for the article in People:
In the apology issued to CNN, Burberry’s Chief Executive Officer Marco Gobbetti said... “Though the design was inspired by the marine theme that ran throughout the collection, it was insensitive and we made a mistake.”Liz Kennedy, the model who initially called attention to this fashion item, wrote:
Suicide is not fashion. It is not glamorous nor edgy... Riccardo Tisci and everyone at Burberry it is beyond me how you could let a look resembling a noose hanging from a neck out on the runway. How could anyone overlook this and think it would be okay to do this especially in a line dedicated to young girls and youth. The impressionable youth. Not to mention the rising suicide rates world wide. Let’s not forget about the horrifying history of lynching either. There are hundreds of ways to tie a rope and they chose to tie it like a noose completely ignoring the fact that it was hanging around a neck....I'm impressed that she wrote "resembling a noose" and "like a noose." It isn't a noose. But it looks like a noose. The journalists at People got it wrong, but the model got it right.
Anyway, fashion tries to be edgy in the special commercial sense. Look at the picture as a whole, beyond the "noose." It's presenting depression as desirable. You're supposed to feel that you are in the know if you get why that's good.
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It’s a shame that people were offended because I actually like the clothes.
The journalists at People got it wrong, but the model got it right.
THAT'S your take-away from all this??
I just can't get too hung up over this kind of thing.
So Jussie was fashion-forward.
I am Laslo.
Heroin chic again?
I was struck first by how bloodless the model looked.
Fag and fag hag drama queen theater.
So, the perps here are among the protected PC species.
We're "edgy," but if you get pissed about it, we'll grovel and apologize.
A boring and repetitive cycle.
They apologized to CNN?
Good on the model--it's not technically a noose around the neck, but it will inevitably create that mental image.
It's the fashion equivalent of hip hop glorifying violence against women. Black rappers are cool enough to get away with it, fashion designers are not.
They probably paid her to complain so more people would notice their clothes. But they really should have put their trademark plaid on the outside, since that's why people buy their products.
Noose negligence neurosis.
The arts often do depict depression as good though, don't they? Happy movies and books aren't considered serious art or realistic. Depressed authors- often suicidal and with addiction problems- are celebrated partially for the depth of their depression. It's one way we the middlebrow middle Americans are looked down on- we want simplistic happy art. But New Yorkers always know better.
Noose nervous.
Mark said...
"The journalists at People got it wrong, but the model got it right."
THAT'S your take-away from all this??
Actually, yeah. That's the most extraordinary thing going on here. That "fashion" did something dumb with an ignorant stab at edginess and people got their knickers in a twist over it are minor points in comparison.
High fashion is so... unwearable.
Furthermore, doesn't this look a lot like more Handmaid's Tale garbage? It's super fun that to be edgy, all you have to do is keep on being utterly conventional with respect to your peers. It's like when I was in Catholic school and the height of edgy was turning up your uniform skirt hem an inch higher than everybody else.
We've suffered many hoaxes in the past 10 years. It seems one ready identifier that something is a hoax is if there's a noose involved.
I saw the headline before I saw the photograph, and I had a completely different mental image.
By the way, people wear a cross around their neck.
Yeah, but it ain't burning.
As an expression of support for the milquetoast worry warts' attempts to micro-manage society, I will continue to boycott Burberry.
The arts often do depict depression as good though
Every TV detective has a trauma in his past that resurfaces for soap opera, sometimes early in the series for extended torture, other times after the writers are tired or run out of crime plots and the actors want to emote. I watch a lot of them.
The obverse of the large cross around the neck as a fashion statement.
By the way, people wear a cross around their neck.
Could you expand more on what you are thinking about here?
Wow, the Professor and I had the same thought.
And what’s that on her forehead?
Kate Spade and L'Wren Scott killed themselves via their necks recently. Not as recently, Alexander McQueen. I don't know how his muse Annabelle Neilson killed herself last year, His first muse, Isabelle Blow ultimately poisoned herself but had attempted suicide multiple times.
I absolutely applaud Liz Kennedy for pushing back against depression chic.
If the context is a marine theme, then this is an overreaction.
By that’s what SJWs do.
Maybee, I think she meant it's a symbol of horrible death, in fact, murder.
Much ado about nothing. It's a cool look overall.
Someone goofed at the factory in Bangladesh, and the model kept tripping over the drawstring in her 4 inch heels, so the gay Klansman dresser thought he'd shorten it the only way he knew how.
I love the idea the left invests so much energy on such meaningless crap. FFS. Make a decision, take a stand, tell the perpetually perturbed to grow up and get life.
Now if only models had come out against the "heroin chic" look of several decades ago.
In the 20's....Roaring....with the flapper styles, necklaces were often long "ropes" of beads that were tied into a knot.
Several ropes of beads or pearls worn at once and tied into GREAT BIG KNOTS around their necks.
OMG...the horror!! Actually, no one cared.
maybe it's for her visit to the groomer's.
on the real, the noose is a symbol of retribution, and it's evocative of a much, much more powerful symbol. The Cross. I refuse to feel bad because one person feels metaphorically lynched by looking at this. Perhaps this is a reminder, to pick up your cross.
I'm the only one who thought this looked like Muslim garb? A chador and abaya? Not the 'noose' part, but the hoodie and robe.
Burberry is London, so I figure the hooding is to be stylish dressing for those wearing hijabs. I don't know what others are thinking with the noose or depressing look.
I like the scrunchy coat. Is that real or faux fur?
Tuco: Even when Judas hanged himself there was a storm too.
Blondie: That could be cannon fire.
Tuco: Cannon fire or storm, it's all the same to you. You ever see this before, my friend?
...
"Now make sure the rope is tight. It’s got to hold the weight of a pig."
"it is beyond me how you could let a look resembling a noose hanging from a neck out on the runway"
Trying to hard.
1) In the context of several outfits that were similarly nautically themed, "it is beyond me" how anyone could clatch onto this as insensitive.
2) Googling up Nautical Knots gives exammples of the common ones.
https://goo.gl/images/zRbAoP
"Noose-like" knots are not uncommon foe sailors and fishermen:
"A variation of this knot is used in fishing and is called the Uni-knot. It is used to tie fishing line to terminal tackle, join two pieces of line, or for snelling hooks. It is especially useful when used with slick braided line as more coils can be added to increase the friction of the knot and will not let the knot pull out. It is also useful in that the knot can be pulled down tight to the lure or it can be left with a larger loop that gives the lure more freedom of movement. The hangman's noose can also be used in boating to secure an eyelet on a rope or sheet without splicing it." - wiki
3) The "noose" is not only not around the neck, it is not hanging "from" the neck either. It ties the hoodie around the face, not the neck. A necklace goes around the neck, a pendant hangs from the necn. So the distinction carries little difference.
My first thought was “Muzzie” as well. But yeah, the noose is definitely noose-like though if I saw it without any commentary I would just assume it was some Lefty douchelord frantically virtue signaling their solidarity with BLM or some such thing. Given the context, it’s funny that anyone thought it had some sort of racist intent.
The theme was retro-nautical, and the hoods are I think intended to evoke parts of sailors foul weather gear, or for that matter WW2 naval anti-flash protection.
The rage was American or pseudo-American mainly it seems. I dont know why Americans still expect foreigners to care about American political symbolism. It seems rather arrogant.
"By the way, people wear a cross around their neck."
An interesting difference. According ti SJW dogma, nothing should be more "triggering" to Christians than symbols invoking crucifixion. And yet they adopted it as their own.
Can you imagine a group like BLM adopting the Hangman's Noose into their iconography? I can't.
ALTHOUSE: "the model got it right."
Oh, pls, give me a break - what in the world is "right"about the 'model's ridiculously phony and hyper-inflated outrage and pathos about 'suicidal fashion'. And, btw, is that a tattoo on model's face? So that is simply hip and woke "in a line dedicated to young girls and youth"?
Its not meaningless crap, if the point is to make a demonstration of power that can make even foreigners care about your symbolism. If you can get a substantial company across the Atlantic to knuckle under, it encourages all the rest to pre-emptively do so, and moreover help you sanction your opponents.
Power of this kind is a sort of shared delusion. One is powerful if everyone obeys, and helps you enforce your will, out of fear that the other fearful ones will do the same to you otherwise.
It kinda looks like a noose. It also is not attractive, in my opinion, but these sorts of fashion shows are less about making anything anyone wants to wear and more about being edgy. It is both a dumb idea and an overreaction to a dumb idea.
My main problem is the thing is a natural handle for someone to grab and pull the wearer around by the neck. It's basically a mugger's helper.
To me, she looks like a fish that been caught with a line with a knot in it.
But anyway glad to know everyone is "Noose Conscious" - we need to be on alert fro anything resembling nooses, swastikas, or watermelon and fried chicken and their symbolic meaning.
Also, verboten talking about Apes or monkeys - even if you're Jane Goddell.
Whenever you see a black running back NEVER say "Look at that little monkey run"
Cf: Howward Cosell.
Also, never say "He made a monkey out me" when discussing how a black person outsmarted you. Only Asians and Whites can be included in any monkey metaphors.
Ugly Idea, Ugly Outfit, Ugly Woman
I'm the only one who thought this looked like Muslim garb?
I got a monk vibe.
And here we see the reaction to the noose as a symbol of suicide - not lynching. Interesting that with the Smollett affair, all concerned insist a noose is ever and always symbolic of the lynching of Black Americans.
Who is appropriating whose symbolism?
Noose = suicide
Noose = lynching
Noose = criminal justice sentence
Noose = sailor's knot
One's perception probably depends on one's internalized feelings. You might see a suicide noose if you are considering suicide or have been touched by someone killing themselves in that manner. You might see a sailor's knot if you sail or are a Boy Scout. You might see a lynching if you are black because you have seen old photos of blacks being hung for the "crime" of being black. You might see criminal justice when you see photos of executions of outlaws in the Wild West.
Some people might just see a piece of jewelry tied in a cool looking knot.
Some people might just see a piece of jewelry tied in a cool looking knot.
Right, Karen. And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Interesting. I've never thought of clothing as art and of sending a message, but if it is presented as such a thing then the artists (clothing designers) open themselves up to critique and criticism.
Depressed and Mental Illness chic is not appealing. Recall Katy Perry's shoes, which were more cheery in design, had to be pulled from the market. Both blackface and nooses are unacceptable accessories.
From 2007:
"A 6-inch string tied as a noose was found in an African-American cadet's sea bag in July while he was serving aboard the historic tall ship Eagle."
LOL. Yeah, why would anyone have a hangman's knot on board a sailing ship?
If the knot slides freely up and down then it certainly is a noose, pious declarations from Althouse notwithstanding.
When I saw it I assumed that’s how Ralph Northam wants women to carry their newborn babies.
I got a monk vibe.
#meToo.
It's presenting spiritual contemplation as desirable. You're supposed to feel that you are in the know if you get why that's good.
The phrase "Hang 'em High" is now racist. Movie title to be changed to "String him along, gently".
P.S. A bowline is a much better knot to use when sailing. Simple to tie, can be made with one hand, super strong, and simple to untie. Some would still say it resembles a noose though.
"I dont know why Americans still expect foreigners to care about American political symbolism. It seems rather arrogant."
Rightfully so. The United States Navy controls 2/3rds of the planet. Their constant patrol of the sea lanes keeps trade (like food and oil) flowing into foreign countries, and prevents nations like Canada from invasion or constant maurading (Somoli and Barbary Pirates, Viking-like raids, etc)
At this very moment a Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) is doing circles in the Pacific Ocean. Another MEU is in the Atantic. Every day of every year, rotated out and replaced with fresh bodies and equipment every 6-9 months, forever. Their mission is to be a reactionary force if our subjects are invaded (Kuwait), to land with lethal force and serve as a "speed bump" against the enemy until follow-on forces can be mustered and arrive. They also provide for a Fast Emergency Response for natural disasters like volcanic eruptions and tsunamis (Japan, Indonesia). They perform rescue operations and provide civilization (food, water, energy, medicine) until the crisis passes. Their quickness keeps the body count to the hundreds intead of hundreds of thousands. This is all done at great cost to America i ln the form of money, energy and American lives.
America took over Britania's role. We are the sole Superpower. The sun never sets on the American Empire.
Pax Americana. And unlike other empires in history, we let our subjects keep their lands and culture. They are even free to pursue their own interests, so long as they don't conflict with our own.
So it's not arrogance. Our citizens have every right to be very proud of America. And the very least our foreign subjects can do is express a little gratitude.
No one else is seeing an unaltered thingy?
@Mockturtle - Damn it. You made me think of Bill Clinton.
Symbolism is highly culture specific.
Hispanic culture, other than the degree to which it has been influenced by modern US mass media, does not see a noose as symbolic. Executions by hanging were phased out a very long time ago in the hispanosphere, and even the antique noose was not similar to the American symbol.
Its one of those exotic things you find in American cowboy movies.
In Britain it is not a racist symbol (again, other to the degree that US symbols have infiltrated). Hangings feature often in British literature and theater, but the victims were almost exclusively white.
I got a monk vibe.
Yeah, that too, except it's a woman. That makes it look more muzzie.
More FAKE NOOSE!
For the UK, it's not edgy enough. For that they would need
1) The noose
2) Body paint in the nude
3) Half a pant-leg
Hanged, drawn & quartered
Probably woulda sparked a riot.
"All the Noose That's Fit To Print"
no noose is good noose!
The Burberry collection seems ... not excessively silly, as these things go.
I suppose that I'm lucky that the daughters favorite clothing store is Goodwill, as she is still on her ancient retro kick. A low-cost daughter who looks like she dropped out of the 1950's and saves most of her money, who would have predicted that?
BOLO for bolo ties!
Good comparison to wearing a cross around the neck. Both are ruling class terror tools for public execution of accused bad men. The crucifiction is also an extended three day torture and shaming. Jesus surprised everyone by just dying after 6 hours after declaring the most important words in human history, “It is completely finished “
Is that a tattoo on her forehead? Or, did she fall asleep while making organic waffles?
Interesting factoid and 'Old West' myth...
It is a modern apocryphal telling and representation (on film) that people in the old west knew how to tie a noose. As simple a knot as it is many people - including law enforcement - had no knowledge of how and rather than experiment via trial and error they would, in many cases, use whichever knots came easily to hand.
These included lariat knots, nautical knots, and 'towing' knots...the 'noose' knot was just too specialized.
These 'alternative' knots were responsible for considerable suffering and gore and there are loads of anecdotes and eye-witness accounts of these common knots causing decapitation, strangulation, and out-and-out failure...in one case even leading to an on-the-spot pardon.
The 'noose knot' was difficult enough and less-than-ideal enough to warrant its replacement in Great Britain with a simple leather-lariat style 'rope' hooked to chain assisted by the 'short-drop' method and the Spanish moved away from hanging entirely to the Garrote, which basically just choke you to death.
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
Jussie "Uses Clothesline for Sympathy & Lyin" Smollett preferred the "single-strand fiber-core clothesline with lariat knot"...
This is an excellent rope and knot for hanging oneself by their own petard.
@AZBob
dont assume. Does it identify as a duck?
"In the 20's....Roaring....with the flapper styles, necklaces were often long "ropes" of beads that were tied into a knot.
Several ropes of beads or pearls worn at once and tied into GREAT BIG KNOTS around their necks."
Wait until the left finds pics of Trump's grannie in one of those outfits.
@Lucid
Once, the World was His Oyster
But on his own petard, became a hoister
I suppose we cannot play Hangman
A great point about wearing across around the neck.
I assume this is a known and useful nautical knot, but do not know it’s name.
"Tie me a sheepshank, Hooper!"
(but that aint it)
Actually, tieing a noose that kills someone wasn't the problem in the old west. The problem is you need the right length of rope for "the drop". If you there's not enough "Pull" with the drop you strangle to death. If the "Pull" is too much you get decapitation. Being an Old West hangman was more difficult then it seems.
Since we're talking about Myths. The Biggest one now, is that only black people got lynched. In fact, outside of the South almost everyone who got lynched was white. usually because they guilty as hell, and people didn't want to go through the trouble of a trial. If IRC, approximately 2,000 of the 6,000 people lynched prior to 1920, were white.
Since we're talking about Myths. The Biggest one now, is that only black people got lynched. In fact, outside of the South almost everyone who got lynched was white
Vigilantes in California lynch two suspected murderers 1933
If they wanted the nautical look they could have gone with a lanyard and a boatswain's pipe.
Senator Kamala Harris and Senator Cory "Spartacus" Booker are leading the way to establish a new Federal law against lynching.
If that law already had been established, those two Nigerian dudes would not have dared to put a rope around Jussie Smollett's neck.
Also, Burberry would not have dared to put a rope around that runway model's neck.
"It's presenting depression as desirable."
It's just a corollary to the Althouse theorem that anything women do more of must be presented as good.
Fashion people can be so dumb sometimes. Out of any number of knots to pick, THAT one?
It isn't everybody's cup of tea, but auto-erotic asphyxiation is a thing. Everyone should have a right to express their sexuality in any way they please so long as it doesn't harm anyone. I support this young woman's wish to let the world know of her sexual hobbies. People with auto-asphyxiation needs have had to live in the closet for too long.
"Oh! Oh! I know how to get on the front page of the Internet!"
Burberry has lost it's balls over the last 100 years. T. Burberry made his nut and became famous for supplying the British military with it'd famous trench coats. That and inventing gaberdine.
Who, besides Jussie, wants to hang themselves with a cheap piece of clothes line. I support Burberry's efforts to provide auto- asphyxiation fetishists with a stylish accessory to use while indulging in their hobby.
"but auto- asphyxiation is a thing-"
dont do that in a car while it's running in an enclosed space
It's just a corollary to the Althouse theorem that anything women do more of must be presented as good.
I think the factoid is that women attempt it more, but men succeed more. A clear ability differential.
With regard to crucifixion in particular as a legitimate technique for a condemned's execution under Jewish law and tradition, note that anyone executed via this method is automatically especially cursed by God, and as a result — to protect the land itself from also being “defiled” — it was required that his or her body be taken down from its “tree” before the end of the (execution) day, to wit (quoting…):
And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
(/unQuote)
(Deuteronomy 21:22-23 – KJV)
I believe that this specific religious damning laid out in Jewish law is the secret to why Christ was subjected to this particular penalty of crucifixion: because, beyond the physical torture of crucifixion, the foregoing religious-law baggage also necessarily degrades Jesus to the utter lowest-of-the-low in terms of the defilement he willingly accepted in trade for all our salvations.
Nothing says radical chic more than a scrawny, ditzy white woman wearing a hoodie with a noose on the runway. Fashion!
@Michael
we messed up
Numbers 21: 4 Jn 3:14
I woke up offended this morning. Thank god this story came up, or I might have been forced to to drop the feeling and party like IT'S FRIIIIIDAAAAAAYYYYY!
I woke up woke!
The Stupid is strong in this affair.
I do instantly see a noose in that, and would assume it was intentional and making a statement, but as usual, I would not understand the message. I get something about oppression and women and Islam, but not sure exactly what. I feel something, and suppose I should say "Oh no!" and cover my mouth with my hands and see the designer as substantive becuase of it, but I just don't. I just see the attempt.
"A marine theme" my ass. The racial intent is obvious and all that 'look over here' crap is just weak.
Crucifixion was a common form of execution in Asia for centuries. It wasn't unique to Hebrew culture.
Not just in Asia, and I didn't say it was.
I think the noose is overdoing it.
They should have just left it as a leash.
I am Laslo.
Followers of high fashion can view the entire collection here.
They did use the coiled rope look for drawstrings on a few other things, just not at the neck.
I saw a pair of pants I kind of liked.
White and black people were lynched in the U.S. and for some reason that fact is not often mentioned. Mob rule is never healthy for any society. That’s why the ever increasing number of major media and social media gangs going after people they disagree with is doing great damage to the individuals attacked and to our civil society. Fashion wise, there’s nothing chic about drug addiction,lynching,or tattoos on the forehead. Return of the primitive is not a good model for society or fashion.
This is reminiscent of the "black hole" controversy perpetrated by the Diversity Racket.
"The racial intent is obvious"
To who?
There is a big world out there that doesn't share your symbols.
There is a big world out there that doesn't share your symbols.
Yep. One of my fellow students--from Korea--has a little gold swastika on a necklace. I--very gently--told her that might not be such a hot idea in the West, explaining I knew it was a perfectly cool symbol in Eastern religious context but it's been kinda ruined in the West. My worry was she might run into someone who wouldn't listen (like "The racial intent is obvious and all that 'look over here' crap is just weak" from above). That sort of person might have berated her and shouted down any attempt she made to defend herself, and she was a gentle sort who I hoped wouldn't have to face that.
"Ugly Idea, Ugly Outfit, Ugly Woman"
What woman? Is that a woman? It looks like an ugly boy.
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