"The company had planned to build a sprawling complex in Long Island City, Queens, in exchange for nearly $3 billion in state and city incentives. But the deal had run into fierce opposition from local lawmakers who criticized providing subsidies to one of the world’s most valuable companies. Amazon said the deal would have created more than 25,000 jobs. Amazon’s decision is a major blow for Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo and Mayor Bill de Blasio, who had set aside their differences to lure the giant tech company to New York.... State Sen. Michael Gianaris, a vocal critic who was chosen for a state board with the power to veto the deal, said the decision revealed Amazon’s unwillingness to work with the Queens community it had wanted to join. 'Like a petulant child, Amazon insists on getting its way or takes its ball and leaves,' said Mr. Gianaris, a Democrat, whose neighborhood includes Long Island City. 'The only thing that happened here is that a community that was going to be profoundly affected by their presence started asking questions.'"
The NYT reports.
From Amazon's statement:
For Amazon, the commitment to build a new headquarters requires positive, collaborative relationships with state and local elected officials who will be supportive over the long-term. While polls show that 70% of New Yorkers support our plans and investment, a number of state and local politicians have made it clear that they oppose our presence and will not work with us to build the type of relationships that are required to go forward with the project we and many others envisioned in Long Island City.
If you can't get enough love, you can go somewhere else.
Posts
93 comments:
That picture of Bezos dick started them thinking about covering their backsides.
Good. Maybe the next city won't fall tax its citizens on their behalf and in return won't treat businesses as the enemy.
These deals ought to be illegal under equal protection.
Clearly Cuomo and de Blasio didn't pay the correct weregild to the correct people, the various unions and their creatures.
The right and the GOP should back Gianaris. It's all very well to celebrate business and free enterprise, but Amazon (and its owner) are blackmailing, predatory, tax-evading plutocrats in t-shirts and sandals.
The only thing that could make this funnier is if Amazon ends up negotiating an even more favorable deal with NYC!
Stephen Stills Lyrics
"Love The One You're With"
If you're down and confused
And you don't remember who you're talking to
Concentration slip away
Because your baby is so far away
Well there's a rose in a fisted glove
And the eagle flies with the dove
And if you can't be with the one you love, honey
Love the one you're with
Don't be angry - don't be sad
Don't sit crying over good times you've had
There's a girl right next to you
And she's just waiting for something to do
Well there's a rose in a fisted glove
And the eagle flies with the dove
And if you can't be with the one you love honey
Love the one you're with
Turn your heartache right into joy
'Cause she's a girl and you're a boy
Get it together come on make it nice
You ain't gonna need any more advice
Well there's a rose in a fisted glove
And the eagle flies with the dove
And if you can't be with the one you love, honey
Love the one you're with
Amazon (and its owner) are blackmailing,
Negotiating is blackmail? Should you be arrested for telling a car dealer you won't buy the car unless he gives you a discount?
Be serious.
Good!
Gianaris, we may reasonably speculate, found himself on the side of the angels for once by demanding quid pro quos from Amazon that they were not willing to commit to.
Thus the stopped clock of NY politics showed the correct time for a moment.
DiBlasio, Cuomo hardest hit.
My mama said you can't hurry love
No, you'll just have to wait
She said "love don't come easy
But it's a game of give and take"
You can't hurry love
No, you'll just have to wait
She said "love don't come easy
But it's a game of give and take"
You can't hurry love, no you'll just have to wait
It is time for the federal government to pass a new excise tax.
If any company or person is given a favorable tax status compared to everyone else by a local government there will be a special levee of 110% of the difference paid immediately to the federal government.
Fuck these crony corporate handouts.
It was just released that Amazon is paying no Federal taxes this year...for a 2nd year in a row. And they were getting $3 billion in incentives.
I don't live in NY, but count me among the 30% there - or anywhere - against this crap. Amazon doesn't need financial help. These indirect impact economic models are way overblown.
Apparently the money wasn't enough, they need the 'love' too. It's not enough they were paid, they want NY to provide a 'girlfriend experience' with their billions.
"That's it baby...look at me like you love me when you're sucking my dick:)" - Amazon
AOC was also whining about how Amazon would improve the area, e.g. the evils of gentrification
Rick said...
Amazon (and its owner) are blackmailing,
Negotiating is blackmail? Should you be arrested for telling a car dealer you won't buy the car unless he gives you a discount?
Be serious.
Amazon is doing nothing wrong. It is doing right by it's shareholders and working within the corrupt business environment.
It is the politicians that pedal the corruption.
Trump needs to stand up to the crony corporatists of the uniparty.
De Blasio really dropped the groundhog on this one.
Preen whilst 25,000 jobs go missing. That will show them.
NY was a bad choice for Amazon to begin with.
Patrick had the same thought I did- it would be fucking hilarious if Cuomo and Blasio end up luring Amazon back with even bigger tax breaks, and the really cynical half of me suspects this is exactly what Jeff Bezos had in mind with today's decision.
Corporate socialism: If it will fly in Wisconsin, surely it should fly in New York.
Sayonora Suckers!
Amazon: The deal would have created more than 25,000 jobs which would be displaced by our robots in a year or two.
Great news. That will free up more workers for AOC to implement her plans in New York.
Amazon got a taste of the SJW brigades forming up to impede on environmental grounds, gentrification grounds, equal pay grounds, the whole bag of grounds. Someone in Seattle thought, hmm, Austin, Atlanta, none of those places are going to make this this hard.
Chances are very good that everyone commenting owns a piece of this company. Think as an owner.
I love Amazon products, but not a huge fan of the Goliath business.
I love NY, but not the crazy-left wing politicians.
I love the idea of adding private sector jobs to NY, but not all the opportunities for graft and bureaucratic statist meddling or the unfair tax benefits.
I love Mom&Pop used book stores, too.
What's a poor fellow to do?
I didn't understand why Amazon needs HQ2 in the first place, nor why one would locate it in NYC. It would make far more sense to locate it pretty much anywhere else south of the Mason Dixon line.
Live by the politicians, die by the politicians. Maybe now Amazon will wise up, look for a place that has a good business climate in general, and accept the same deal that everyone else gets.
Big win for the tax paying New Yorkers.
Amazon's words: "For Amazon, the commitment to build a new headquarters requires positive, collaborative relationships with state and local elected officials who will be supportive over the long-term."
My words: For Amazon, the commitment to build a new headquarters requires that state and local elected officials set aside local regulations and government road blocks to our siting of the new facility, and for generous tax incentives and other financial set asides, delivered immediately and over the long-term.
I work in one of the buildings Amazon was set to move into.
We're leaving no matter what.
What's a few million more square feet of empty office space?
Cuomo and DeBlasio were actually on the right side of this. Amazing.
The NYC deal never made much sense (and wrote so at the time.) Even with the incentives, it would have cost quite a bit to staff up--certainly far more than in Virginia--and many of the best and brightest have no desire to live in NYC.
My feeling is that all their analysis showed it was a bad deal in the long run, but the incentives were too tempting AND they arrogantly thought they could successfully navigate New York politics to their favor.
(I further thing the entire HQ2 BS was always about NYC.)
Michael said...
Amazon got a taste of the SJW brigades forming up to impede on environmental grounds, gentrification grounds, equal pay grounds, the whole bag of grounds. Someone in Seattle thought, hmm, Austin, Atlanta, none of those places are going to make this this hard.
Chances are very good that everyone commenting owns a piece of this company. Think as an owner.
Bezos started out as a disruptor. Now he is the man.
He chose the suburbs of DC and New York to expand.
If he was still a disruptor he would choose to expand to places with lower property value s and regulations.
He chose the crony path instead. He intends to use Washington DC and New York wealth to keep himself in power and regulate his competition out of business.
You could put a headquarters AND a distribution center all on one place west of Detroit. Willow Run Airport has lots of room for buildings and airplanes (I think the word is "underutilized") and there are road and rails all over too.
Fuck Amazon. Good for this state Senator for blocking crony capitalism.
Amazon's words: "For Amazon, the commitment to build a new headquarters requires positive, collaborative relationships with state and local elected officials who will be supportive over the long-term."
My words: For Amazon, the commitment to build a new headquarters requires that state and local elected officials set aside local regulations and government road blocks to our siting of the new facility, and for generous tax incentives and other financial set asides, delivered immediately and over the long-term."
Bezos should consider moving this proposed hub to Camden NJ. There is no existing tax base there worth speaking off. Amazon going there can only be a positive for Camden and the surrounding areas. Its next to Philadelphia and an hour from NYC. I rather doubt that Senators Booker and Menendez would raise any Federal objections and NJ is trying to stanch a hemorrhage of people who earn enough to pay a real amount in taxes so I suspect even the NJ Democrats would get onboard with giving Bezos a deal.
“If any company or person is given a favorable tax status compared to everyone else by a local government there will be a special levee of 110% of the difference paid immediately to the federal government.
Fuck these crony corporate handouts.”
Foxconn
Inga...Allie Oop said...
“If any company or person is given a favorable tax status compared to everyone else by a local government there will be a special levee of 110% of the difference paid immediately to the federal government.
Fuck these crony corporate handouts.”
Foxconn
It is actually quite difficult to describe just how stupid and narrow minded you are. You epitomize the word hypocrite.
General Electric and General Motors were given billions by Obama and the Democrats. Boeing extracts billions in tax subsidies. And you can only come up with Foxconn because a Republican made that deal and your media spoon fed it to you. The uniparty has been doing this for decades.
Democrat voters like Inga are just really fucking stupid people.
You'd have to offer a big premium to lure somebody to NYC.
Fuck these taxaholics in Blue states that think there is a magical goose they can keep killing. What did they think would happen?
Democrats can **** up a wet dream.
I still think they should come to the middle of the counters so they can get free of the poison that is our coasts.
There is a big new issue on the table. It is threats from the local Governments who give away billions in Tax breaks and build special infra-structure to order to get these new plants that they will hit Amazon with a Robot Tax if the new plant then flim flams them by firing the new workers using the saved tax $$$ to replace the promised jobs with a Robot Work Force.
Ergo: Bezos just re-opened the bidding to find a dumb Local Government that will never Wake Up....Maybe Atlanta wins this after all.
25,000 new NYC jobs are moving elsewhere. Those employees both pay taxes and spend money in NYC, or would have. Now they will do so elsewhere. And NY can continue along on their New Deal minus the ability to print money.
Maybe NYC should give a $3,000,000,000 tax subsidy to it's citizens. More of them might stay!
I'm essentially agnostic on the subject of state/local incentives for these projects. Taxes are frequently imposed (or relaxed) to achieve a general "social" objective (see also: electric cars). Ultimately, there's a cost/benefit analysis for each party in the negotiation, and sometimes one of the parties has to walk away.
If NYC wants to subsidize growing business there, why not offer subsidies to expanding businesses, including small businesses, in NYC? Why should only a gigantic outsider be eligible?
At least one city has wised up about the real cost of cooperate welfare, perhaps they learned a lesson from Scotty and his team that managed the biggest corporate welfare give away in US history.
Ah, too many "complexifiers," as Bezos would say. Perhaps the SALT deduction cap was another complexifier, in addition to the love.
Just like subsidies to sports teams, these business incentives end up giving money to people who don't need it. Maybe Amazon will find another mark, but the best way to win the game is not to play. Amazon's not going to Bumblebee, Arkansas no matter how much money they're offered. Let them decide where to locate based on the things that are available to everyone: infrastructure, office space availability, access to employees, education systems. Giveaways like this are how cities and states become poorer.
"...why not offer subsidies to expanding businesses, including small businesses, in NYC? Why should only a gigantic outsider be eligible?"
Having a gigantic outsider concentrates the grift-target. Hard to shake down hundreds of small businesses; it takes a lot of time & effort just to keep track of them. Better to have one address to go to when you want to wet your beak.
It would not have created 25k jobs. It would have created some, but most would have been moved from here. (please, take them) That was never a realistic estimate for the locals.
", a number of state and local politicians have made it clear that they oppose our presence and will not work with us to build the type of relationships that are required to go forward with the project we and many others envisioned in Long Island City."
Good riddance. The loss of tax revenue and market distortions that this would have caused far outweigh whatever benefits were expected, but not guaranteed, down the road. Why would we trust a deal made by the shit-swizzler who works is warehouse staff to death, the douche-nozzle that outlawed fracking in the state theryby pissing away billions in revenue and jobs and the cock-gobbler who brought us the homeless plague? Bezos,Cuomo & DiBlasio; go die in a fire.
"General Electric said today it will reimburse the state $87 million in incentives it received to move to Boston as details emerged about the company’s plans to sell property around Fort Point Channel and scale back plans for its headquarters."
Good news for those of us in Boston that pay taxes.
My calculator doesn't go that high, but I think that works out to $120K per employee in government bribes. Seems a little high. Almost as if Amazon was just doing it for the tax breaks. What company needs that much incentive to open a business? I'd take my business anywhere that offered me $120K per hire. Doesn't Amazon expect to make any money from it's operation?
I wonder how that deal compares to just opening in a low tax state and getting no extra bribes.
The fact that some New Yorkers elected AOC is enough to make the whole place scary.
Show me the love = show me the money.
The whole thing is like giving the Patriots 5 free touchdowns in the Superbowl, just to get them to play.
Achilles
Foxconn good because Republican
Amazon bad because Democrat
Achilles is such an extremist loon (which makes him stupid), he doesn’t realize he just did what he accuses me of. The people of Wisconsin don’t want to give Foxconn billions of dollars as incentives either, dumbass.
I suspect this is a Big FU from Amazon's Execs to AOC and her like-minded far left socialist nitwit pals.
If giving businesses tax breaks is a good idea, then why just big business? I can send them a dick pic if that's what it takes.
Next up: the Illinois dream team of Pritzker and Daley offer the farm to Amazon to claim a victory. Illinois— we’re like California, except for the weather.
Shorter Amazon: You bribe US to bring 25k jobs and a ton of building money to your city.
We do NOT bribe YOU, local politicians.
Should the State & City be bribing Amazon? IMAO; no.
But should Amazon pay off the creatures like Gianaris? Hell no!
So, good for Amazon
Blogger Phidippus said...
Gianaris, we may reasonably speculate, found himself on the side of the angels for once by demanding quid pro quos from Amazon that they were not willing to commit to.
No, there are no angels ever among corrupt local politicians.
If Gianaris was simply trying to get the deal ended, that would be one thing. But all he was trying to do was get his personal palm greased
How is it good, how is it smart to lose every cent Amazon was going to put into the economy in the form of taxes?
Say Amazon would owe NYC $10,000,000 in taxes under the present code - if it built in NYC. And Amazon got a deal that it would only pay $7,500,000 - if it built in NYC instead of elsewhere where the taxes were lower and would only be $7,500,000 without any breaks. But then DeBlaso and others reneged and said: No, you pay the full $10,000,000. So Amazon went away. So by demanding the full $10,000,000, NYC lost every cent that Amazon would have paid. How is that good?
Even without special tax breaks, there's other states with lower taxes - always will be. NYC simply got greedy and made a mess of things. If Amazon gets off the Acela corridor and its people find themselves in one of those American counties that haven't had a murder in 20 years in an area with houses they can afford, with good schools - they'll get over the lack of Thai restaurants. Anyhow, the Thais and everyone else will follow them there.
Lead story on Zero Hedge:
AOC Celebrates "Defeat" Of World's Richest Man's "Worker Exploitation" As Amazon Abandons NY
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-02-14/bezos-pulls-out-amazon-scraps-plan-ny-hq2
Blogger stevew said...
Big win for the tax paying New Yorkers.
Amazon's words: "For Amazon, the commitment to build a new headquarters requires positive, collaborative relationships with state and local elected officials who will be supportive over the long-term."
My words: For Amazon, the commitment to build a new headquarters requires that state and local elected officials set aside local regulations and government road blocks to our siting of the new facility, and for generous tax incentives and other financial set asides, delivered immediately and over the long-term.
Amazon's real words: "If you want us to bring our business to your place, you can't be threatening to screw us over" (that's all those "local regulations and government road blocks" are, 99.999% of the time). "If you want payoffs, you'll have to find a different sucker."
It's the local voters fault for electing politicians who screw over local businesses.
it's not Amazon's fault for not volunteering to be screwed.
A lot of Queens real estate investors who made recent purchases must be shuddering right now.
And goodbye to presidential aspirations for Cuomo and De Blasio. Nor art of the deal for them.
If citizens are too stupid to elect officials who are too stupid to make bad deals who am I to argue?
This doesn't surprise me. The same thing happens whenever anything from a supermarket chain to a big box retailer tries to open in certain parts of the city. You have to pay off every politician, union boss, and community activist around, so most companies eventually give up and cancel their plans. It happened several times in my old neighborhood of Washington Heights when I lived there in the 90s.
Yancey Ward said...
I didn't understand why Amazon needs HQ2 in the first place,...
Three words: Juan de Fuca.
RV
"At least one city has wised up about the real cost of cooperate welfare, perhaps they learned a lesson from Scotty and his team that managed the biggest corporate welfare give away in US history."
Er, Amazon bailed not the other way around.
When your locale is attractive relative to the alternatives you’re not obligated to pay the incentive game. You get to piss off Cuomo as a bonus.
There seems to be some confusion about the nature of the 25,000 jobs that won't be coming to NYC. These were not warehouse jobs, they were corporate, headquarters jobs. The average salary, pre bonus, would be north of $100,000. Probably significantly more. You can do the arithmetic. It is a big number.
So much for the love of the middle class. LOL
Local pols celebrating the loss of 25,000 jobs. Sad.
Amazon doesn't know how to play the game. Amazon makes deal with politicians. A bunch of protestors show up complaining about affordable housing. Amazon goes back to negotiating table. Politician says he would love to agree to deal but his constituents want affordable housing. Amazon donates money to fund for affordable housing, run by politician's political allies or (if politician is a person of color) family. Affordable housing people donate to politician's campaign, then spend a decade, with multiple cost overruns, building high-end condos with a couple of "affordable" units.
Amazon gets HQ; politician gets money for re-election; politicians' allies or family get a little richer. Affordable housing is still a problem, and the next company that wants tax incentives is going to have to pony up some money to "solve" it.
Greg P: I think we actually agree in principle. Giannis is a dirtball, it is clear, and no angel. However, by overreaching, he managed to get the right outcome (for the poor slobs paying taxes in NY) by accident. And most certainly, not by intention.
I'm sure he'll learn his lesson and not be so greedy next time.
R/V, I like ur fat-finger of cooperate instead of corporate. It really expresses what crony capitalism is: cooperation between business and government. Nice!
Ms. Occluded Cortex was outraged that people in her district would have to show up at work and actually work. She tried to negotiate a bunch of no-show and no-work jobs for her constituents (Tony Soprano would have been proud), but Amazon told her to take a hike. Jeff Bezos had better watch his back.
I'm rooting for injuries.
NYC... the next Detroit.
Leland said...
"25,000 new NYC jobs are moving elsewhere. Those employees both pay taxes and spend money in NYC, or would have. Now they will do so elsewhere. And NY can continue along on their New Deal minus the ability to print money."
And I hope they come to TEXAS!!! NO INCOME TAX!! MAGA!!
Ocasio-Cortez will be Garymandered out of her job by the Democrats soon enough.
Hahahahaha.... and TRUMP IS GONNA BUILD THAT WALL!! "Emergency Declaration!"
Tough nuts Democrats.
Maybe NYC should give a $3,000,000,000 tax subsidy to it's citizens. More of them might stay!
They would just spend it on the wrong stuff.
roesch/voltaire said...
At least one city has wised up about the real cost of cooperate welfare, perhaps they learned a lesson from Scotty and his team that managed the biggest corporate welfare give away in US history.
So rv finally comes out against Obamacare.
Inga...Allie Oop said...
Achilles
Foxconn good because Republican
Amazon bad because Democrat
Achilles is such an extremist loon (which makes him stupid), he doesn’t realize he just did what he accuses me of. The people of Wisconsin don’t want to give Foxconn billions of dollars as incentives either, dumbass.
I said exactly the same thing about Foxconn.
You are just a fucking idiot and you wouldn't recognize a principle if you saw one. You only see tribal power.
The uniparty is in power because of people who blindly support a party.
People like you.
bagoh20 said...
If giving businesses tax breaks is a good idea, then why just big business? I can send them a dick pic if that's what it takes.
Big government always supports big corporate.
They work hand in hand. It has never been different.
The stupid socialists say Billionaires are immoral. But Venezuela still has a few. Maduro and his family/cronies. Everyone else is poor amd starving.
They rely on stupid fucksticks like Inga and Victoria and Cook to get and hold on to power.
Politicians like to attract sources of donations to their districts. There's no tax collected but the campaign donations come in.
Poor LIC. Nearly had the Summer Olympics, nearly had Amazon, both cruelly snatched away after residents and landlords had already started celebrating. The neighborhood that almost did, but never was.
"Amazon doesn't need financial help."
Nope, but if the rubes want it bad enough, why say, "No thanks"?
Noah Rothman gets the left opposition to this exactly, which as far as I can see many here do not. Ms. Ocasio-Cortez and her new style anti-capitalists have just "won" for their community 25,000 fewer high-paying jobs and all the effects of that on other businesses in the area. Sort of like all the jobs she will drive out of America as a whole if she ever gets her idiotic GND fantasy. Okay, at least in this case it will make it easier to send the bigoted little missy back to bar tending in two years.
NOAH ROTHMAN
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/american-society/amazon-victory-for-the-anti-prosperity-left/
"This is a strange new species of success. It’s one thing to be philosophically opposed to tax incentives of any sort for firms that meet the requirements arbitrarily imposed on them by the political class, but that’s not the progressive left’s objection here. They don’t want a freer and flatter tax structure. The don’t oppose using tax policy to induce certain behaviors from companies and individuals. They just didn’t like this company, in part, because of its conspicuous success."
If lefties want use Walker era WI economics as a benchmark, let's do that
re Jon Burack said...,
Of course. those who sent her to DC will view any post election downturn as further proof of her claimed socio-economic injustices
Amazon or New York City? It’s too bad they can’t both lose!
Oh, wait.
Altoona, Belle Glade, Buffalo and Gary are back in the hunt.
We were just down in the new main Amazon corridor in Seattle, and it’s looking good.
Also, a little while ago I was in a coffee shop overhearing a conversation between the PR director for Kshama Sawant (Socialist Alternative) and a Marxist flunkie talking about how the labor unions working at the Amazon site had told the Socialists to go screw.
The Revolution would have to wait.
Pity that the Democrats who govern the state of Virginia and Fairfax and Arlington counties can't do the same. Employment inside the Beltway is already close to 100% and the roads are choked during morning and evening rush hours. (Local joke: morning rush hour starts at 5:30 AM and runs to 10:00 AM, evening rush hour starts at 10:01 AM and runs to 5:25 AM). Virginia can use the jobs, of course, but not in Arlington, and the people of Fairfax and Arlington counties absolutely don't need more traffic.
Glad I moved out of Fairfax when I did.
Liberals. Short-sighted and stupid.
The principal difference between a dog and a liberal is that a dog won't bite the hand that feeds it.
Envy is the driving force of liberalism. They would rather forgo $30 billion in revenues than give $3 billion in incentives. You showed them. smdh
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