"... and that the lyrics begin with a seasonal scene: 'It's coming on Christmas, they're cutting down trees/They're putting up reindeer, singing songs of joy and peace.' Ultimately, 'River' is a bereft song about a broken romance and a woman who desperately wants to escape her heartbreak, saying repeatedly: 'I wish I had a river I could skate away on.' The despairing drama just happens to be set around the holidays. 'There were all these 18- and 19-year-olds doing traditional Christmas songs, and then, bang - they start doing "River,"... I'm thinking: Where on Earth did this come from?'... 'We needed a sad Christmas song, didn't we?' [Joni] Mitchell said with a chuckle last year... 'In the 'bah humbug' of it all.'"
From a 2015 WaPo article
archived at the Joni Mitchell website. Some cover versions collected there.
Here's the original.
I was thinking about that song after someone on Facebook put up this cool video...
... that reminded me of the best ice we ever had on Lake Mendota (back in January 2011)...
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58 comments:
It's not in a minor key.
I very much like Linda Ronstadts's cover of this song. I think many of her covers are better than the originals, like "Desperado" and "Tracks of My Tears".
Can we get a Zamboni out there to clean up that ice?
It was a good season for clear ice in the Northeast. It's odd to look through the ice and see the perch going after your line...
I've also wondered how this song suddenly became a Christmas tune. Seemed to appear overnight in the holiday collections.
rh is right -- the Jingle Bells quote is *not* in a minor key, though the descending bass line makes the middle segment sound a bit minor.
James Taylor puts a short quote from Good King Wenceslas as the opening to his cover.
That was a cool video. Must have been filmed from a drone.
That clip reminds me of how much I used to love to skate, I could do it mindlessly for hours. I was just good enough to fly around the ice, skate backwards, do crossovers, etc.
I loved that thing when it came out, and more recently learned it on piano. But every time I play it, the spouse says "what is that?? it sounds like a Christmas song but??" I explained yes that's a definite evocation of Christmas. Sheesh...I won't play t now.
Guess you just can't touch Christmas unless you've got something nice to say.
That clip reminds me of how much I used to love to skate, I could do it mindlessly for hours. I was just good enough to fly around the ice, skate backwards, do crossovers, etc.
Me, too. I took skating lessons for years as a child and young teen and enjoyed that feeling of sailing across the ice and of mastering various jumps and spins. At my age, though, I'd probably fall and break something. :-(
It's a Christmas song because not everyone is happy during Christmas. For many, there is loneliness and loss. I think it's fine to give voice to that feeling.
This is the same argument about Die Hard: "It's not a Christmas movie! It's a movie that happens at Christmastime!"
Matthew Berry lays out why they're wrong: Love, Hate and why 'Die Hard' is a Christmas movie
Those fucking Canadians! (I am one). Ice, snow. In another break-up song, "A Case of You," Joni is in a bar alone, thinking about the beloved or ex (who may or may not be planning to join her), and she draws a map of Canada on the back of a coaster. I'd probably have a big crush on her anyway, but these little Canadian references finish me.
Birches is right: many people have at least moments over Christmas feeling sad--it's not what it should be, lots of gifts are lousy, etc. Joni suggests a breakup is even worse at Christmas, and a Canadian--or anyone else--might get homesick in Los Angeles.
The other song that seems to have become an add-on is "My Favourite Things"--no actual reference to Christmas at all, and barely a reference to winter. As if to drive Christians mad: mid-winter is just one of those times when memories and moods develop. The latter song seems more cheerful than Joni's song, but it is very nostalgic for childhood--I venture to say, girlhood in particular. The Mother Superior, surely an old battle ax with many scars, even gets to sing a verse or so.
You're A Mean One, Mr. Grinch sung by young blond ladies dressed like 1860's prostitutes.
Great. Now I have that song looping over and over in my head...
I made it about 10 seconds into the video until the millennial whoop wall-of-sound kicked in. Ugh.
I wished they'd have used Joni's River instead.
I was never as good at Tank or Mock but enjoyed it probably as much.
The original version of You're A Mean One, Mr. Grinch was sung by Thurl Arthur Ravenscroft, the guy who voiced Tony The Tiger.
"my age, though, I'd probably fall and break something. :-("
I love to skate, gliding (almost like flying), but I broke 6 ribs in a pickup hockey game last new years eve. Ouch. I have fear of the ice now, ribs take awhile to heal fully, so not as much fun anymore.
It ends with Jingle Bells in a minor key. At least the Joni Mitchell Version does.
Lake skating is great. Our lake usually has a few weeks at the end of January where the ice is trustworthy.
Maybe when I retire, I'll try tour skating. I've looked into it, but our lake isn't worth the investment just yet.
Indigo Girls have a great cover.
One of the saddest songs ever written is "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas."
It drives me nuts when singers do it as a peppy, up-tempo number. It's heartbreaking.
Then there's "Fairy Tale of New York," but that came after "River."
My grandkids skate on the lake, but it’s not completely smooth and you need to be careful. Lovely video of the river skater.
First time I heard Joni's "River", I recalled being thirteen and joyfully skating for miles on New Hampshire's Oyster River, which was thickly frozen all the way from Somersworth to Great Bay.
"Soggy with nostalgia" doesn't begin to express how my reaction. "Blubbering mess" is much more like it.
@jason,
One of the saddest songs ever written is "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas."
Yes, very much this. In the movie, "Meet Me in St. Louis", the little girl Judy garland sings the song to runs away crying at the end, & for good reason. It is not a happy song of any sort.
The other one that's a downer is "I'll be Home for Christmas".
The classic Christmas carols are much better at having a restrained mix of joy tempered by the foreknowledge of Christ's Passion to come at Easter. I really like the original French text of Minuit, Chretiens (known as "Oh, Holy Night" in English), since it reads like a lesson in Incarnational theology set to music.
A lot of Christmas songs aren't "Christmas" songs. There's no reason "Jingle Bells", "Sleigh Ride" or "Winter Wonderland" couldn't happen any time from November to February..
And, while it certainly isn't a "depressing" Christmas song, I am often glad, after having been forced to endure "I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus" in various public venues, that Maryland forbids the carrying of firearms.
Yeah, I don't get Favorite Things. Every time I hear it as Christmas music, I get annoyed. I'm never annoyed when I hear River.
It's coming on Christmas
they're cutting down trees
They're putting up reindeer
singing songs of joy and peace
Oh I wish I had some ice picks
I could crawl away with
The other one that's a downer is "I'll be Home for Christmas".
that song is pretty much, the Ultimate downer; 'cause he won't be home, not for Christmas, not ever
As Uncle Billy used to say, War IS hell
I think Favorite Things gets into the Christmas mix because Sound of Music is always showing this time of year. It's an association for people who like the movie. Granted, it probably wasn't late December when the Von Trapps fled the Nazis because Maria is dancing on the grassy alps with the kids, and when they flee it isn't on skis or snowshoes. But if you have watched for generations and it's always at Christmas, it's a Christmas song no matter the details.
And then I dont feeeeeeeeeeeeel . . . so bad
Time association has a lot to do with it....I'm always reminded of Christmas whenever I hear Billy Paul's Me and Mrs. Jones because it was popular in December of 1972, when I was 16. Go figure.
I just read about the Von Trapps because I saw a revival of Sound of Music on TV that was really good. So, it got me wondering. Maria and the Captain got married in the 1920s. She was not really in love with him at the time, but she married him for the sake of the children who she did love (later on, love for the Captain did develop). Unlike the movie, he was a very devoted and involved father and a very kind man. He lost all his money when he had it moved from an English to an Austrian bank. So, they started the public singing. He did not want to be involved with the Nazis in any way, so the family went on a singing engagement in another country and never went back to Austria. The Captain had dual citizenship in Austria and Italy, so they initially moved to Italy, then England (I think) and then the US. Maria and the Captain had 3 more children. He was 25 years older than Maria.
Argyle: This *is* Christmas music!
Well, we already had a melancholy Christmas song, from 1944:
Someday soon we all will be together
If the fates allow
Until then we'll have to muddle through somehow
So have yourself a merry little Christmas now
My mom--who came of age in WWII--used to say that we couldn't understand the true bitterness of that "if the fates allow." True, at least up until my brother was in Vietnam.
Kind of off-topic, but I happened to see this picture on Facebook of the 1921 Miss America contestants in Atlantic City and the woman on the far left made me think of Althouse. I wondered if that might have been a relative of hers.
Miss America contestants in swimsuits, Atlantic City, 1921.
BTW, the third woman from the left in the picture is Margaret Gorman from Washington, D.C., the first Miss America. She was only 16 at the time.
"My grandkids skate on the lake,"
Wishing you a Merry Christmas Inga. I'm guessing you are a wonderful grandmother. Best to you and yours.
The video is very pleasing. I bet she could have done an axle but that would have been contrary to the mood of the piece.
The location is beautiful. It reminds me of the closing scene of the 1995 movie To Die For featuring e character played by Nicole Kidman. Let's just say she played the role cold as ice.
“Wishing you a Merry Christmas Inga. I'm guessing you are a wonderful grandmother. Best to you and yours.”
Thank you! And a Merry Christmas to you and yours too!
It always bugs me that the sentence ends on not one, but two prepositions.
"Wishing you a Merry Christmas Inga. I'm guessing you are a wonderful grandmother."
I bet that's true.
Folks, check out Paul Kelly's classic "How to Make Gravy" for maybe the saddest Christmas song ever.
And the best to Inga as well.
AZ Bob: It reminds me of the closing scene of the 1995 movie To Die For featuring e character played by Nicole Kidman. Let's just say she played the role cold as ice.
How would I describe her? Four letter word, starts with C.
I risk sounding like an old fuddy-duddy: Our (I'm 66) youth was utterly crammed with fantastic song writers. Joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan, Laura Nyro, Tom Rush (I'm trying to hit on some of the lesser lights with these last two). And I'm listening to these songs (perhaps cover versions) 50 years later and thinking to myself: "These could have been written last week." Of course I (emphasis on I) like them -- they remind me of my youth. But I see lots of young people who also love these songs (my children in their 30s, and my nieces in their late teens early 20s). And I wonder: who are the songwriters of today that will have a similar claim on people's attention in 2068? Lady Gaga? Justin Bieber? (Perhaps you can tell, I can't even name a current artist with a claim to song-writer status.) It's true (fuddy-duddy that I am) that all rap sounds alike to me.
It ends with Jingle Bells in a minor key. At least the Joni Mitchell Version does.
It's all major key; in the normal course of events chords based on II and VI will be minor chords. So long as the felt key stays I it's all major, however.
You'll want the chords to this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8oKEx1-J1w
Thomas Tallis 3rd mode melody
"You're A Mean One, Mr. Grinch sung by young blond ladies dressed like 1860's prostitutes."
One of them being the talented Lindsey Sterling on violin.
“Kind of off-topic, but I happened to see this picture on Facebook of the 1921 Miss America contestants in Atlantic City and the woman on the far left made me think of Althouse. I wondered if that might have been a relative of hers.”
I don’t think so, but she does remind me of my paternal grandmother, who would have bee the right age. Can you see which state she’s from? I don’t think anyone in my family ever did pageants.
“And the best to Inga as well.”
And to you too!
“Wishing you a Merry Christmas Inga. I'm guessing you are a wonderful grandmother."
“I bet that's true.”
Thank you.
I like the original Judy Garland version of Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas the best, even though it’s depressing.
I think that must be Alta Lake. Love it there.
Clyde, as for me, the one on the far right ( physically not politically) is the only one who Packs the gear.
AZBob: The underused Illiana Douglas doing figure eights over Nicole Kidman's frozen corpse in To Die For! Amazing.
This song was used in a Christmas episode of "thirtysomething," back in the 1980s. It was a great episode about people dealing with Christmas instead of celebrating it. Also, there was a tension between a married couple, one Jewish, one Christian. The song really set the tone for the show. Maybe that's where playing "River" at Christmas comes from: nostalgia for "thirtysomething."
Reilly and Maloney have an excellent version of this song.
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