Althouse: George W. Bush gives the eulogy for his father.

December 5, 2018

George W. Bush gives the eulogy for his father.

120 comments:

gspencer said...: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Born to privilege which he enjoyed his whole life. His offspring as well.; 12/5/18, 1:20 PM
Unknown said...: Try and show some class-Dude; 12/5/18, 1:33 PM
Big Mike said...: The Left, especially including Democrat politicians and anyone writing for the Washington Post or the New York Times, shows us how to be a good Republican.

Die.; 12/5/18, 1:35 PM
Nonapod said...: George H.W. Bush narrowly avoided getting eaten by a group of deranged Japanese soldiers, he was recovered safely unlike his less fortunate peers.; 12/5/18, 1:36 PM
Shane said...: "Born to privilege which he enjoyed his whole life. His offspring as well."

And yet pure class.
Delivered with a son's love.; 12/5/18, 1:36 PM
Big Mike said...: @gspencer, Chelsea Clinton and Barbara Pierce Bush were equally privileged. Chelsea went from college to being an investment banker (which she failed at). Barbara Bush went from college to fighting AIDS in Africa, where the organization with which she worked (Baylor College of Medicine) has had some success.

Let me know when Malia or Sasha does as much. Hell, let me know when you've done as much.; 12/5/18, 1:42 PM
FWBuff said...: You could tell that he loved his father and that his father loved him.; 12/5/18, 1:50 PM
Darrell said...: Many tearful moments.; 12/5/18, 1:54 PM
traditionalguy said...: A powerful father and his son's relationship is a mysterious and intense bonding that lasts eternally. You have to experience one to undertand one. Christian scripture sees God as a powerful Father relating to his Son with a love between them called the Spirit of Holiness, and the three together called The Trinity.; 12/5/18, 1:56 PM
Lexington Green said...: People are instinctively monarchists.
We have a small-r republican, small-d democratic Constitution.
But we treat our Presidents as if they were kings.
Sad!; 12/5/18, 1:57 PM
Chris said...: gspencer - you were born to privilege compared to billions of people worldwide. What of it?; 12/5/18, 1:59 PM
rcocean said...: Great speech and heartfelt.; 12/5/18, 2:01 PM
Chris said...: GWB could make it as a comedian. Really. His delivery and timing were spot on.; 12/5/18, 2:02 PM
rcocean said...: I doubt we'll ever see a Father-son POTUS duo again.; 12/5/18, 2:02 PM
Chris said...: Bill Clinton is a mouth breather. Literally. Looks like Christopher Pike in his wheelchair sitting there.; 12/5/18, 2:05 PM
rcocean said...: Bush looks really good for 72, you'd think he was 10 years younger than Bill Clinton. With his good genes, he'll probably live to 95 too.; 12/5/18, 2:07 PM
rcocean said...: Choked up at the end. I've choked up too, talking about how great my Dad was.; 12/5/18, 2:08 PM
Dave Begley said...: It was all superb. The four speakers were excellent with the son the best.

We are a better country thanks to the service of 41 and 43.; 12/5/18, 2:09 PM
rhhardin said...: I have different entertainment tastes.; 12/5/18, 2:13 PM
Professional lady said...: My Dad was born 1923 and thus is about the same age as Mr. Bush. As a white male, he was a privileged part of the patriarchy. He was so privileged he had to regularly go up in a B-17 and get shot at by anti aircraft guns. Unfortunately for him and his crew, his plane was hit (like GHWB) and he was shot down and captured. Fortunately, he survived and fathered six kids. Unfortunately, two crew members did not survive and the children of those crew members never got to meet their fathers and the fathers never got to impose the patriarchy on those kids. He also had the privilege of getting up and going to work every day for 35 years to support and educate all six kids and their mother. He sure had it easy.; 12/5/18, 2:15 PM
Lee Moore said...: gspencer : Yeah, yeah, yeah. Born to privilege which he enjoyed his whole life. His offspring as well

As George Orwell noticed, and remarked of many of his fellow leftists - it's not that they love the poor, it's that they hate the rich.; 12/5/18, 2:19 PM
rhhardin said...: Buckley wrote a nice obit for Hubert Humphrey.; 12/5/18, 2:22 PM
Merny11 said...: The funeral was beautiful, and GW gave a eulogy that showed what a close and decent family the Bushes are.
Obama’s nose in a he air was annoying, and Bull Clinton looked like the creepy sleezeball he is.; 12/5/18, 2:26 PM
rhhardin said...: The hero in The Escort (2016) wrote obits for the newspaper. Got complimented for putting together the life story of people.; 12/5/18, 2:29 PM
Drago said...: gspencer: "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Born to privilege which he enjoyed his whole life. His offspring as well."

So was Ted Kennedy, so he and W must be exactly alike....cuz "born to privilege".

Its a shame that differing values inculcated into children of similar class standing apparently has zero impact on how those children develop.

Sounds awfully marxist in terms of analysis.; 12/5/18, 2:34 PM
rhhardin said...: Obama was comparing his father.; 12/5/18, 2:35 PM
rhhardin said...: Does classy involve not falling for entertainment shit.; 12/5/18, 2:35 PM
rhhardin said...: The choir sings Te Deum.; 12/5/18, 2:38 PM
etbass said...: What's eating you, RH?; 12/5/18, 2:49 PM
wildswan said...: Great eulogy recalling all the things 41 was good at. I put aside forever some of my anger at all the things he wasn't good at. He couldn't see into the future - the rise of China and Islam, the fall of Europe, the birth crash, the loss of US manufacturing - well, I'll have to let that go. He came at the end of era and he was good at all the things his era taught him were important.; 12/5/18, 2:58 PM
rhhardin said...: Watch out for what you find entertaining. It's a hook.; 12/5/18, 3:01 PM
Rick.T. said...: I'll readily concede the basic decency of the Bush family but I'm struggling with the notion that we were better off with them as Presidents.; 12/5/18, 3:03 PM
holdfast said...: Yes, GHWB was born into privilege - literally into the 0.01%. He could have used that privilege to go to college instead of going to war. He didn't.

He could have used that privilege and the family names (he had a couple) to get a cushy and well-paid job on Wall Street or similar. He didn't - he went wildcatting for oil in Texas - financially risky and even somewhat physically risky back in those days.

There are lots of scions of great American families who chose to sit on their privilege and just dissipate. The Bushes aren't those people.; 12/5/18, 3:10 PM
rcocean said...: Its a great eulogy because George Bush focused in on what a great man and father, Bush-1 was.

He didn't spend much time on Bush-1 politician.

They'll do the same thing with Carter. talk about what a good man he was, built houses, wrote books, believed in Human Rights etc. And they'll skip over what a terrible President he was.; 12/5/18, 3:13 PM
tcrosse said...: The ceremony in Houston will be more low-key, so maybe they'll give Jeb a chance to say a few words.; 12/5/18, 3:18 PM
zipity said...: Democrats LOVE Republicans.

Well....dead ones anyway.; 12/5/18, 3:27 PM
YoungHegelian said...: W. eulogy was good, and worthy of an accomplished son for his accomplished father. Apparently, G.H.W. choose the readings, & I liked those, too. But, the music! It just seems that a good sense of liturgy is not in the American genius. And with all that beautiful choral stuff in the Anglican/Episcopal tradition, too!; 12/5/18, 3:30 PM
James K said...: I fortunately have not been to many funerals, but is applause normal after a eulogy?; 12/5/18, 3:32 PM
John Ray said...: Yes, he was born privileged -- but that wasn't his damn fault. Yes, he could have, given his privilege, avoided any dangerous service, but he went for it.

As for his piloting skills, who knows, I, and you, were not there.

As a son of one who served in three wars, I, II and Korea, I heard some harrowing and scary shit (Sorry AA, I use that word too). Much of it bore on him and raised self-doubts until his last day. George left in peace and so did my "old man". Leave that as it stands.

Now as President, hell we can argue about that all day.; 12/5/18, 3:43 PM
Jim at said...: but I'm struggling with the notion that we were better off with them as Presidents.

Well, considering the alternatives were Dukakis and Gore ....; 12/5/18, 3:44 PM
Meade said...: "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Born to privilege which he enjoyed his whole life. His offspring as well."

Born in the USA is to be born to privilege. If you don't love and enjoy that privilege (and teach it to your offspring), you just might want to think about migrating to a country that allows you better to pursue your own individual happiness.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.; 12/5/18, 3:46 PM
TreeJoe said...: The only privilege worth calling out is privilege wasted on frivolity or used in the oppression of others.; 12/5/18, 3:53 PM
MadisonMan said...: That was a nice eulogy. I was happy to see Rosalyn Carter there, though she seemed to be asleep.; 12/5/18, 3:54 PM
TreeJoe said...: Random observation: Why didn't bill clinton wear a black suit? His suit looked fine, it's just unusual for well-off individuals (with a very full wardrobe) not to wear black to a funeral. Especially when they are one of the more prominent guests.; 12/5/18, 3:57 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @MM,

I was happy to see Rosalyn Carter there, though she seemed to be asleep.

The radio commentator I was listening to said that Rosalyn Carter was in bad health & that it was quite unexpected that she made it.

It may have taken everything she had just to get herself into the pew.; 12/5/18, 3:59 PM
Francisco D said...: I'll readily concede the basic decency of the Bush family but I'm struggling with the notion that we were better off with them as Presidents.

They were somewhat disappointing, although I voted for the Bushes (and donated to their campaigns) four times.

The alternatives were Mike Dukakis, Al Gore and John Kerry. Yes. We were better off with the Bushes.

I almost forgot Bill Clinton. He was certainly better than Obama and Carter, but he brought us his shrewish wife who almost became POTUS.

shudder; 12/5/18, 4:02 PM
Left Bank of the Charles said...: How does Brian Mulroney, the Prime Minister of Canada from 1984 to 1993, get away with saying this:

"the United States ... is in my judgment the greatest democratic republic that God has ever placed on the face of this earth"

Won't Canadians feel slighted? But, of course, Canada is a constitutional monarchy, not a democratic republic. And then there is the other category of democratic republics, like France, that were created by atheists. So who does that leave in our subcategory to be the greatest of? Should we feel slighted?; 12/5/18, 4:13 PM
iowan2 said...: Born in the USA is to be born to privilege

YES. Better people than me oft remind me that I have already won the highest yielding lottery in the world. Born in the USA.
When you are feeling blue, and sure that no one loves you. Pull out your gratitude list. If 'born in the USA' is not at the top. You need to reassess.; 12/5/18, 4:27 PM
tim maguire said...: Lexington Green said...we treat our Presidents as if they were kings.

I agree that this sort of send-off is inappropriate for a republic. In fact, much of how we regard our president is inappropriate for a republic. But now is maybe not the best time to make that point. If it must be at a funeral, than it should have been for the funeral of John McCain.

In any case, I blame our star-fucking media, who has been conditioning us for generations to regard our politicians as celebrities.; 12/5/18, 4:29 PM
rcocean said...: Canada,NZ,UK, and Australia aren't "Democratic Republics".

That's why Mulrooney said that.

BTW, the press found something to criticize Trump for.

He didn't read (or pretend to read) the Apostles Creed. Therefore, unlike Obama, he's a satanist and all the Evangelical Christians who voted for him are hypocrites and fools.

That's all they got. Along with a "Chill" descending on the "first row" when Trump came in.; 12/5/18, 4:37 PM
Tomcc said...: Wow. Well done. Thanks for posting that!; 12/5/18, 4:37 PM
rcocean said...: 100-1 they ask Trump about it and the next Press Q&A.; 12/5/18, 4:38 PM
Matt said...: It annoys me when our 'public servants' are still referred to as 'president' or 'Secretary' or 'Senator' or whatever years and decades after leaving office.

You go back to normal life, then you go back to normal life.; 12/5/18, 4:41 PM
rcocean said...: Ex-POTUS die about 10 years. NO ex-POTUS deaths from 1935-1964. Amazing huh?

Hoover dies in 64, Ike in '68, Truman in '72, LBJ In '73.

Then the next death is Nixon in 1994, then Reagan in 2004, and Ford in 2008.

Now Bush in 2018. Carter will probably go in the next 4 years.

but then it probably will be another 15 years before Trump, Bush II, and Clinton are in danger, and Obama will probably last till 2050.; 12/5/18, 4:42 PM
Jaq said...: W can pound sand. He should have followed the rule he followed for Obama and shut up about Trump. But I guess that the Obama’s were still looking out for the wealthy, so he was copasetic.; 12/5/18, 4:44 PM
rcocean said...: The small "d" democrats are fucking bores.

Unlike most countries the US President is the head of state AND the head of the Government. We don't have a Constitutional Monarch or appointed President to represent the country.

That's why we treat the US President the way we do.

These guys are also C-in-C in case we have a war. So I don't think a big send-off is a mistake.; 12/5/18, 4:46 PM
rcocean said...: Where were all the carpers during the McCain funerals?

Now, that really was absurd. A whole week long of national mourning and six different funeral services/memorials for a Senator who wasn't even Minority or Majority Leader.

Plus 2 POTUS speaking at his National Cathedral funeral!; 12/5/18, 4:51 PM
MadisonMan said...: @YoungHegelian : I know a couple people in the Peanut industry, and her precarious health is well known. That's why I was glad to see her.; 12/5/18, 4:51 PM
Sebastian said...: "He didn't spend much time on Bush-1 politician."

It's their virtue and vice: the Bushes didn't take politics too seriously, but they also didn't take it seriously enough.

HW would have been a better politician and president if he had approached the job like a fighter pilot.; 12/5/18, 4:51 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @rcocean,

He didn't read (or pretend to read) the Apostles Creed.

That's the "Nicene" not "Apostles" creed as part of the liturgy.

So, be honest rc --- did you add "Apostles" in there or did the damn media talking head not know the difference? 'Cause, trust me, rc, if you say "they did it", I'm gonna trust you, as I've heard the press come out with some major religious whoppers in my time.; 12/5/18, 4:56 PM
John Ray said...: To Meade @3:46: Point on. +10.

I was a broke college student, not born here. I spent the better part of $20,000 proving that I was a "natural born U.S. citizen" under the then obscure laws that allowed such. My "old man" dragged me here some 70 years ago (for which I am thankful) and I had no passport, no visa, no anything. I am privileged, by damn. Very damn privileged. That sum, $20,000+ some 45+ years ago, equates (in my brain) to millions+ and more.; 12/5/18, 4:56 PM
narciso said...: yes Coolidge was 60, hoover was 90, ike was 77, Truman 88, lbj 65, then Nixon at 81, Reagan at 93, ford about that same age,; 12/5/18, 4:58 PM
FullMoon said...: Unknown said... [hush][hide comment]

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I know that many here consider the above to be a scam of some sort. Au contraire.
I contacted this guy right before the election and had him cast a spell on Hillary.
Worked out pretty darn good, obviously.; 12/5/18, 5:18 PM
rcocean said...: "That's the "Nicene" not "Apostles" creed as part of the liturgy."

Most of the MSM Is using "Apostles creed".

What difference does it make?; 12/5/18, 5:18 PM
Quaestor said...: the despicable gspencer (the g stands for "green with envy") wrote: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Born to privilege which he enjoyed his whole life.

One wonders if LJG Bush enjoyed his privilege as he floated helplessly in a tiny yellow liferaft near the island of Chichi Jima in September 1944. If it had not been for the valiant crew of USS Finback he'd have ended up served in the Japanese officer's mess as the meat course like several of his squadron mates. I wonder if they could have detected the subtle flavor of New England patrician?; 12/5/18, 5:21 PM
narciso said...: yes, its very silly, ted kennedy who wrangled himself a marine billet in paris, during the Korean war, howard dean, who fought the Vietnam war from the ski chalets of Vermont, better examples,; 12/5/18, 5:24 PM
James K said...: A state funeral seems reasonable for a president who dies in office, less so for a president who has been out of office for 25+ years.; 12/5/18, 5:24 PM
Quaestor said...: John Couch wrote: Try and show some class-Dude

Don't waste bandwidth on bottom-class wannabe thugs. When the time comes he'll squeal like a pig.; 12/5/18, 5:25 PM
rehajm said...: Since we’re kvetching- how sour is Hillary? Refuses to acknowledge a sitting President today. Couldn’t be bothered to address her millions of supporters on election night either. Holy fuck this woman believes she had the temperament to be President herself.; 12/5/18, 5:29 PM
narciso said...: like a lemon, wasps don't always have the best judgements:

https://nekropole.info/en/Vilma-Espin; 12/5/18, 5:30 PM
M Jordan said...: Gotta say I was boycotting watching this until I heard a bit on the radio while doing some construction work. I went home and backed up the VTR and my wife and I enjoyed the whole thing. It was the Protestant tone and message that really touched me. The Protestants built the best nations in earth. That’s why everyone flocks to them.

Oh, and W. was excellent. I remember how he was mocked for his speaking style but he was the star of the day, much better than the pastor. Alan Simpson, though, had the best line of the day: Those who choose to take the humility route in DC are unencumbered by high traffic. (paraphrase from memory).; 12/5/18, 5:34 PM
narciso said...: in other news:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/france-paris-yellow-jackets-facebook

you wouldn't think that simpson is the yale educated son of another us senator, would you?; 12/5/18, 5:37 PM
tcrosse said...: Since we’re kvetching- how sour is Hillary?

Give her a break. Trump-hate is all she has left.; 12/5/18, 5:39 PM
narciso said...: just more excuse making:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-12-03/brexit-britain-could-face-its-own-gilets-jaunes; 12/5/18, 5:41 PM
YoungHegelian said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/5/18, 5:45 PM
Meade said...: narciso said...
in other news:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/france-paris-yellow-jackets-facebook

V interesting article.; 12/5/18, 5:48 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @rcocean,

What difference does it make?

Because the Apostles' Creed is not part of the standard liturgies. It's used mostly at baptisms or non-eucharistic liturgies, like Matins. In most "public" liturgies, including in this case a Requiem, the Nicene Creed is. For the Ordinary of the Mass -- Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, & Agnus Dei -- which has been set to music by hundreds of great composers in western history -- that "Credo" is the Nicene Creed.

The Nicene Creed is the congregation's statement of its foundational beliefs. To mix up the two is the Christian liturgical equivalent of Star War's "..made the Kessell Run in twelve parsecs." It's prima facie evidence the speaker has no clue what he/she is talking about.; 12/5/18, 5:48 PM
wholelottasplainin said...: gspencer said...
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Born to privilege which he enjoyed his whole life. His offspring as well.
*********************

How many combat missions in the Pacific, or anywhere else, did YOU fly when you were only 19-years old, and could have avoided being drafted?

Snort.; 12/5/18, 5:59 PM
William said...: There's already been one grandfather/grandson combo as President. The Bush family may try for the trifecta. They're attractive, likeable, and remarkably sane people. It's true that they're privileged, but that just makes their sanity and decency that much more notable. I don't know what the judgment of history will be, but neither Bush left a sour aftertaste.; 12/5/18, 6:00 PM
William said...: Bill Clinton knows how to listen in an attentive and sympathetic way. Hillary never mastered the art.; 12/5/18, 6:01 PM
wholelottasplainin said...: rcocean said...
Its a great eulogy because George Bush focused in on what a great man and father, Bush-1 was.

He didn't spend much time on Bush-1 politician.

They'll do the same thing with Carter. talk about what a good man he was, built houses, wrote books, believed in Human Rights etc. And they'll skip over what a terrible President he was.
*********************

Yeah, terrible. I mean, think of all the terrible things Bush-41 allowed to happen during his term.

The IRS and DOJ scandals, the unemployment, the terror attacks on America, the unnecessary and futile wars, the policy of unleashing the federal government on your political opponents...

Oh wait.....; 12/5/18, 6:04 PM
William said...: Jimmy Carter will be the last President who will die during my lifetime--unless there's a dark horse, or I turn out to be the dark horse. I think Carter has outlived most of his mourners. His funeral will suffer by comparison with that of Bush,.....Bush was definitely the more historically significant President.; 12/5/18, 6:06 PM
wholelottasplainin said...: James K said...
A state funeral seems reasonable for a president who dies in office, less so for a president who has been out of office for 25+ years.
**************************************************

So....what's your cut-off? If, for example, Lincoln had lived on for another 25 years instead of being assassinated, would you have objected to a state funeral for him?; 12/5/18, 6:10 PM
Trumpit said...: It was a good, touching eulogy by Dubya. Brought a tear to my eye, and a folksy laugh here and there. Father & son each had their own Iraq war for oil. They brought tears, and suffering to so many, so the sheiks and oil barons could dance on the graves of our brave soldiers, and the million dead Iraqis. War for oil is no laughing matter, George. To hell with you two.; 12/5/18, 6:42 PM
FullMoon said...: Anybody other than rich old white men ever get a state funeral?; 12/5/18, 6:51 PM
M Jordan said...: I’m betting Jimmy Carter’s funeral will be the antithesis of H.W.’s: simple, plain (and in Plains), and sincere.; 12/5/18, 6:56 PM
rcocean said...: Here's the Apostle vs. Nicene creed from the official Episcopalian website:

While we will always have questions about God, the Church, and our own faith, we have two foundational creeds that we use during worship: the Apostles’ Creed used at baptism and daily worship, and the Nicene Creed used at communion. In reciting and affirming these creeds, we join Christians across the world and throughout the ages in affirming our faith in the one God who created us, redeemed us, and sanctifies us.

The Apostle's Creed was used at the funeral.; 12/5/18, 6:58 PM
James K said...: So....what's your cut-off? If, for example, Lincoln had lived on for another 25 years instead of being assassinated, would you have objected to a state funeral for him?

Zero. If you die in office you get a state funeral. Otherwise yer on yer own. Hale and fare thee well.; 12/5/18, 7:04 PM
Darkisland said...: Blogger Left Bank of the Charles said...

How does Brian Mulroney, the Prime Minister of Canada from 1984 to 1993, get away with saying this:

"the United States ... is in my judgment the greatest democratic republic that God has ever placed on the face of this earth"

Particularly interesting to me is that Mulroney was not elected to the office of Prime Minister (He is appointed by the Governor General, who is appointed by the Queen of England) Mulroney works for the queen of England, not her Canadian subjects. She can fire him at will.

As in England, there is not even any legal basis for the office at all. It exists only by custom. It's only existed in England since the 17th century.

The US is not structured as a democracy but many people think it is. (States are mostly democracies, not the United States) Maybe Mulroney is one of them.

Maybe Mulroney thinks Canada should be a democracy rather than a monarchy and is jealous of us.

John Henry; 12/5/18, 7:06 PM
chickelit said...: William said...Bill Clinton knows how to listen in an attentive and sympathetic way. Hillary never mastered the art.

Remember when she hit the road in the Scooby Van to "listen" to Midwesterners. This was prior to the 2016 primaries. Turns out she really wasn't listening because the heartland electoral votes cost her the election.; 12/5/18, 7:11 PM
John henry said...: Jay,

If Lincoln had lived another 25 years would he be worshiped as he is today?

Or would he be regarded as another middling president who dragged us into an unnecessary war?

Like Kennedy. Just barely middling as president but now a saintly martyr.

Who also dragged us into an unnecessary war.

John Henry; 12/5/18, 7:17 PM
Big Mike said...: War for oil is no laughing matter

How stupid does one have to be to still believe in "war for oil" after all these years? An IQ like Forrest Gump's I would imagine.; 12/5/18, 7:19 PM
Browndog said...: Jeb! had all the money, infrastructure, and was deemed the 'front runner' early in the 2016 campaign season. Popular governor from swing State Florida meant the odds of him not becoming 45 were low.

Could you imagine what would have been said today if President Bush, and former President Bush gave a eulogy at former President Bush's funeral?; 12/5/18, 7:26 PM
Tank said...: Nicely done. It’s hard to make it through these things without breaking up, I had trouble when doing it for my parents. He almost made it.; 12/5/18, 7:36 PM
Howard said...: BM needs to do the maths of Saudi oil reserves and their cost of production. Kasshoggi the latest payslip in blood for oil.; 12/5/18, 7:42 PM
Howard said...: Shorter John Henry:no blood for Negroes; 12/5/18, 7:43 PM
PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...: Blogger Howard said...

Shorter John Henry:no blood for Negroes

Yup. An end to slavery without the massive bloodshed.

Slavery went from being universal is the entire inhabited world in 1800 to close to non-existent by 1900.

The US was the only place in the entire world where a war needed to be fought to eliminate it.

Are you so stupid, Howard, that you don't think we could have eliminated slavery without a major war? Spain did it. Portugal did it, England did it. France did it, Turkey did it, India did it, Egypt did it, other countries did it. All of them had economies much more dependent on slavery than in the US. All of them had many times more African slaves than the US.

Do you really think the US could not have done eliminated slavery without the catastrophic War Between the States? We are still feeling the effects of that war a century and a half later.

Thanks, Abe.

John Henry; 12/5/18, 8:01 PM
PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...: You "No blood for oil" folks should be kissing President Trump's feet.

The US is now a net exporter of oil and natural gas.

We have American ingenuity and President Trump to thank for this. American ingenuity for coming up with cost effective ways to produce oil at $30/bbl, President Trump for getting out of their way and letting them do it.

John Henry; 12/5/18, 8:06 PM
PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...: Blogger Howard said...

BM needs to do the maths of Saudi oil reserves and their cost of production. Kasshoggi the latest payslip in blood for oil.

I believe the cost of production in SA is around $5-10/bbl. It is very cheap. But they can't afford $5-10 oil, they are feeling the pinch even now at $50-55. They make a profit but don't get enough revenue to run the country.

We need $30-40 oil. Rather, the producers need $30-40 oil. The US govt gets very little revenue from oil so it doesn't really matter what the price is from that standpoint.

So are you saying that the US still needs Saudi oil?

Other countries do, the US doesn't.

Our Navy no longer needs to be able to keep the straights of Hormuz open. We only need to be able to close it. I forget where I saw that, perhaps Strategy Page?

John Henry; 12/5/18, 8:16 PM
Rick.T. said...: Francisco D said...

“The alternatives were Mike Dukakis, Al Gore and John Kerry. Yes. We were better off with the Bushes.”

A couple of wars costing trillions with hundreds of thousands of lives lost and the largest economic recession since the Great Depession is a pretty high bar. That calls for more than a “Yeah, but...” response.; 12/5/18, 8:41 PM
wholelottasplainin said...: FullMoon said...
Anybody other than rich old white men ever get a state funeral?
*****************

Why the snot?

Historically, its been Presidents and VPs, all white (so far). Unsurprising, in view of that FACT that the USA has been for most of its existence been populated by a white majority.

But some presidents were not rich, by any standard. Lincoln, e.g.

And JFK wasn't old, 43 when he was killed by a communist loser, Lee Harvey Oswald.

Then there are others given state funerals:

Unknown soldiers. (what race? How rich?)
Daniel Inouye

And don't forget Rosa Parks, who didn't get a state funeral but lay in state in the Capitol rotunda.

Face it: you're a dullard.; 12/5/18, 8:59 PM
wholelottasplainin said...: johnhenry100 said...
Jay,

If Lincoln had lived another 25 years would he be worshiped as he is today?

Or would he be regarded as another middling president who dragged us into an unnecessary war?

Like Kennedy. Just barely middling as president but now a saintly martyr.

Who also dragged us into an unnecessary war.

**************************************

snort

AS IF the Civil War was unnecessary. AS IF America should have continued living with slavery....to this day.

snort

AS IF JFK's assassination should have disqualified him for a state funeral, because IN THE FUCKING FUTURE Lyndon Johnson would have put hundreds of thousands of US forces in Viet Nam.

Where do you get your history from, skippy --- Howard Zinn?; 12/5/18, 9:10 PM
Big Mike said...: @John Henry, Howard the educated fool wants us to know that heat rises, which is why the homes burned in Paradise, CA, but not the trees. The way Howard sees it, if we — wisely, in my estimation— do nothing then “Kasshoggi [sic] [is] the latest payslip in blood for oil” but if we do entangle ourselves then it will surely be American blood for oil.

I’ve pointed out before that Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy of the sort not seen in the west for centuries. Picking a fight with the king is unwise, to say the least.; 12/5/18, 9:20 PM
William said...: Those who say "no blood for oil" should more properly raise their objection with Saddam Hussein........Also I agree that the Saudi Prince is a murderous thug. He undoubtedly ordered the murder of Kashoggi......In Syria over a half million people have been murdered. A good percentage of those murders are directly attributable to Assad. Who do you think should be brought to justice first: Assad or the Saudi Prince?; 12/5/18, 9:28 PM
narciso said...: Thomas Cromwell did much less, tyndall actually gave him the reason behind the break with the church,

One of the problems that Moyar points out was the wrongheaded view of JFK's advisors they saw a troublesome ruler and suggested a removal strategy, this was wrong for two reasons 1) diem wasnt as more effective than we thought 2) his successors lacked legitimacy; 12/5/18, 9:29 PM
PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...: Blogger Jay Elink said...

AS IF the Civil War was unnecessary. AS IF America should have continued living with slavery....to this day.

So you think every other country in the world could eliminate slavery without a war and the US could not?

What the Hell are you smoking?

AS IF JFK's assassination should have disqualified him for a state funeral, because IN THE FUCKING FUTURE Lyndon Johnson would have put hundreds of thousands of US forces in Viet Nam.

Nope, JFK's assasination would not have disqualified him for a state funeral. Everyone seems to agree that presidents who die in office deserve one. But some question whether they should get one 25 years later.

The question was, had he lived to 1990-2000 (25 years after leaving office) should he have gotten a state funeral? As for getting us into VN, he was the one. LBJ expanded the Hell out of the war but it was JFK's war all the way.

Like other demmies Wilson and FDR, LBJ ran and won on a promise of not getting us into a foreign war but we were already in with both feet by 1963. Perhaps you are too young to remember.

I'm not. I was prime draft bait in 1967 and scared shitless of going over there. Joined the Navy to dodge the draft.

John Henry; 12/5/18, 9:32 PM
narciso said...: Was more effective, but as pointed out not in boots book, JFK was listening to harriman and firestal Exeter '45, who in turn was listening to Holbrooke who read halberstam who got info from a viet Minh operative; 12/5/18, 9:34 PM
PuertoRicoSpaceport.com said...: My real point about JFK was that he was not a very good president by any measure. Another Obama, except with a really rich father. One of the richest people in the world, certainly one of the top 3-4 richest in the US.

Had he lived, he might not have even been the candidate in 64. Had he run, he would likely have lost. But even if he had won a second term he would not have been idolized the way he is today.

He would have been another Jimmy Carter.

Should Jimmy Carter get a state funeral?

Probably, because of precedent. Not because his presidency deserved it.

john Henry; 12/5/18, 9:39 PM
narciso said...: So he screwed up at the outset in Vietnam, as he had done two years earlier in our backyard.; 12/5/18, 9:45 PM
narciso said...: And a year before he fumbled the Cuban missile crisis until it became a game of chicken; 12/5/18, 9:54 PM
DeepRunner said...: Bush 43 hit it out of the park, and reminded us that folksy is OK.; 12/5/18, 10:11 PM
traditionalguy said...: My guess is that GHW Bush at 18 wanted to go to war. He was a WASP male, and for many men that is another way to say "Warrior."
And he was well educated and possessed excellent hand-eye coordination that suited him to Carrier Aviation take off, finding a speck in the ocean 100 miles away to bomb and then finding a way back to smaller speck to land on with a 300 feet long runway.

And he liked leading groups of men. And remember Pearl Harbor. The Japs needed killing.; 12/5/18, 10:57 PM
FullMoon said...: Jay Elink said... [hush][hide comment]

FullMoon said...
Anybody other than rich old white men ever get a state funeral?
*****************

Why the snot?

Minor cold.; 12/5/18, 11:27 PM
FullMoon said...: ay Elink said...

johnhenry100 said...
Jay,

If Lincoln had lived another 25 years would he be worshiped as he is today?

Or would he be regarded as another middling president who dragged us into an unnecessary war?

Like Kennedy. Just barely middling as president but now a saintly martyr.

Who also dragged us into an unnecessary war.

**************************************

snort

Why the snort?; 12/5/18, 11:30 PM
David Duffy said...: How does one speak about their father at his funeral? I tried and knew I failed. How does a man summarize his father's life and express his love in a few minutes? My only consultation is Mrs Duffy thought I did well.; 12/5/18, 11:38 PM
Yancey Ward said...: It was poignant for me because I also lost my father recently. That was a fine eulogy.; 12/5/18, 11:39 PM
SweatBee said...: I was surprised he held it together until that moment. I still remember when he came close to losing control during his 2004 convention speech when he started talking about the families of fallen soldiers.; 12/6/18, 12:47 AM
John Stuart Mill said...: Strikingly, it seems neither his children or grandchildren were with Bush 41 when he died. Please correct me if I am wrong.; 12/6/18, 3:44 AM
Carter Wood said...: Neil Bush was in the room.; 12/6/18, 6:43 AM
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