From "Nobody Believed Neil deGrasse Tyson's First Accuser. Now There Are Three More/No one believed Tchiya Amet when she said Tyson had raped her in the 1980s. Now, three other women tell BuzzFeed News that he harassed them, including one who’s sharing her story publicly for the first time" (BuzzFeed).
What was the New Age religion that that seems to some people to discredit Amet? We're told that after the time of the alleged rape...
Amet would never return to science (though she tried, twice, to reenroll in graduate school, with a focus on historical African astronomy). She got married, homeschooled her two kids, moved into a small one-story house on an Indian reservation in Northern California, and then got divorced. She sang in a reggae band, and fully adopted a New Age way of thinking about the universe — rooted in energy, astrology, and ancient teachings, rather than science.Amet "wrote a rambling blog post, as fragmented and disjointed as her memories of the incident, titled “I Survived RAPE by Neil de Grasse Tyson; The Blue Lotus Speaks!”
In 1995, as part of what she calls her spiritual healing, she changed her name to Tchiya Amet — which means “rebirth” and “truth” in Hebrew. “I did not want to identify with Staci — I wanted her to be dead,” Amet said.
From Neil de Grasse Tyson's own response:
For me, what was most significant, was that in this new life [30 years later], long after dropping out of astrophysics graduate school, [Amet] was posting videos of colored tuning forks endowed with vibrational therapeutic energy that she channels from the orbiting planets. As a scientist, I found this odd....When does religion discredit a complainant? I don't think the answer should be when it seems flaky to people who would be deferential to a member of a mainstream, traditional religion. When a person adopts a new religion, it says something about what's been going on in that person's life, and a shift from centering in astrophysics to obviously unscientific ideas about planets and energy looks very significant, but which way is it significant? It could mean this person doesn't adhere to real-world facts, but can also raise inferences that something terrible happened to her and changed the course of her life. Whether the terrible something was Neil de Grasse Tyson is another matter.
पोस्ट्स
१०२ टिप्पण्या:
If you have a criminal complaint against a man, you file a criminal charge or bring a civil suit.
Everything else is bullshit.
Why are you even entertaining the notion that trial by media ordeal is acceptable, prof?
#three accusers #metoo #believeallwomen
@ST
The legal claims -- criminal and civil -- are barred by the statute of limitations.
I certainly disagree that that everything that could be a lawsuit must be a lawsuit and cannot be pursued in any other way, such as by writing and speaking in public and applying social pressure.
The vast majority of disputes that could be lawsuits do not become lawsuits but are dealt with in other ways. Perhaps you imagine a completely litigious society as a great society. If so, you have a poor imagination.
The word for what you are advocating is blacklisting and it's a very vicious, immoral business.
You are a Marxist feminist when it suits your purposes. Your tactic here is Marxist. Show trial in the media.
When does religion discredit a complainant? I don't think the answer should be when it seems flaky to know it all scientist who think they know everything.
Let me add that your purported grievance that justifies blacklisting and trial by media is a Marxist confabulation of women as an oppressed group.
Tell me again how you're not a Marxist feminist.
And, your Marxist feminist grievance is bullshit. You are just assuming that that grievance has merit.
The reason why the complaint has passed beyond the statute of limitations is that the woman in question didn't bring a criminal charge or a civil suit within the statute of limitations.
You do believe in the rule of law, don't you?
I have a big problem with the 3 accusers business, because the 2 new allegations are so different from the very old one. I don't think stupid overfamiliarity in the work place — even where it is clearly sexual harassment — is much like drugging and raping a person in a private setting. You're not establishing a pattern of behavior, only a vague idea that this is a man who doesn't respect a woman's physical boundaries. But the 2 new allegations are probably forgivable. Stop doing that, you might say, and he agrees! He admits he did those things, shows his point of view, and resolves to be less familiar. The alleged rape, however, is something that you'd put a person in prison for doing, even once, and he denies that it happened.
From the article:
“I think the power imbalance was a reason why I didn’t wrench my arm away from him and tell him to stop touching me,” she said. “You’re not going to do that to someone who is powerful in the field.”
Why the hell not?
OK, now I read more, and it looks like just one more effort to destroy a man (whom I don’t like, BTW, but he still has rights even though I don’t like him) by some women who seem to be doing it because they can.
“One free grope” - Gloria Steinem. What higher authority do we have than Glow Stick on this?
Guy becomes famous, girl who used to know him thinks she can become famous too.
Poor shlubs can still operate under traditional rules. There's no gain for accusing them.
This is tough one for lefties- On one side of scale is #MeToo and she must be believed. Other side is the well loved science-y black guy scientist and our big go to for pushing our policy agenda.
Professor, back up.
I'm calling you immoral and vicious for engaging in this blacklisting and media accusation.
The person displaying a moral problem here is you.
You need to change your behavior. Quit lecturing. You're the problem.
I'm no astrologer, but I'm betting that the planets aligned to do this to Tyson as payback for Pluto.
We all know why this woman was not taken seriously and it has very little to do with her and all about Tyson's politics and celebrity. Let's all remember how seriously the media treated Kavanaugh's accusers.
Imagine a former alter boy accusing the Cardinal of rape, and the Cardinal basing his defense on the man’s choice to leave the church and certain damnation.
That’s the crux of Tyson’s answer.
I would have bet money that Neil de Grasse Tyson was a homo.
Ann Althouse said...
@ST
The legal claims -- criminal and civil -- are barred by the statute of limitations.
I certainly disagree that that everything that could be a lawsuit must be a lawsuit and cannot be pursued in any other way, such as by writing and speaking in public and applying social pressure.
What kind of nonsense is this? This is not "everything that could be a lawsuit." Accusing a man of rape is about the worst thing you can say about him, and, not just a crime, but a very, very serious felony. If you want to make that claim, go right to the police and prosecutor where actual evidence can be gathered. If you don't do that, then STFU, and certainly, years later STFU.
The gutter entity calling itself "BuzzFeed" is now a "Mainstream publication"?
The only way to clean this mess up is to force the left to live by their own rules.
Old complaints that the victim never spoke of, should be ignored. Presumption of innocence, rule of law, evidence. Those are the standards. Not allwomenshouldbebelieved.
Until the left starts living the Bill of Rights, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association, presumption of innocence, right to self defense...instead of giving weak lip service to the principles, they need to go down in flames under the rules they subject their enemies to.
let's take a vote!
Did you come here to (pick ONE)
A) listen to Shouting Thomas scream and yell about how Much he Hates ALL Women?
B) listen to our Professor Althouse Lecture ?
{pick B! pick B! Pick B!}
It could mean this person doesn't adhere to real-world facts, but can also raise inferences that something terrible happened to her and changed the course of her life.
The inferences can also go in the other direction - that attraction to and immersion in flaky New Age stuff suggests a susceptibility toward looking for an explanation for one's worldly failures/personal problems in a confabulated past trauma. Often based on a currently fashionable trauma-causer.
The point being that you don't know and can't know, and that speculating one way doesn't give grounds for doing what you seem to want women to be able to do - impose social penalties years after an alleged incident, when civil or criminal penalties can't be sought.
Got to total up everyone's intersectionality points to find out who wins.
I'm trying not to enjoy this--it's a terrible thing for her if he did it and a terrible thing for him if he didn't, but Neil Degrasse Tyson deserves public humiliation more than most.
Lecturing is fine. How else do you get something interesting to disagree with.
According to the online intersectionality test I'm in the top 95% of the most oppressed population.
gilbar said...
let's take a vote!
Did you come here to (pick ONE)
A) listen to Shouting Thomas scream and yell about how Much he Hates ALL Women?
B) listen to our Professor Althouse Lecture ?
I wouldn't say I come here to listen to Prof. Althouse lecture, but I generally don't even read Shouting Thomas' posts. Too boring, to repetitive, too insulting, and too long.
Robert Heinlein (no friend of religion) used to say that the difference between a respectable religion and a crazy sect was that you were born into a respectable religion and stayed there for the friends and familiarity and tradition. It didn't mean that you had thought about and adopted its unscientific dogma. But if you changed religions, it meant that you accepted its crazy beliefs. And when people believe crazy supernatural things, you have a sect.
posting videos of colored tuning forks endowed with vibrational therapeutic energy that she channels from the orbiting planets.
You call that religion? Really?
Shouting Thomas, I didn't realize blacklisting didn't exist before Marx. Seriously, that's as silly as saying that trade didn't exist before capitalism.
Hey, man, it was the 1980's.
If it wasn't that lying son of a bitch Reagan...
I don't see the issue. The woman says Tyson raped her. If you don't think that is credible, don't credit it. But where is the issue? That she said it? That her saying it was reported in media? That some people believe her? That because they believe her, they may be less inclined to have dealings with Tyson? Which of those things should the law prevent?
And BTW, nothing is more science-y than energy and planets. Just 'cause she doesn't say "billions and billions" a lot ...
"colored tuning forks endowed with vibrational therapeutic energy that she channels from the orbiting planets. As a scientist, I found this odd...."
Not as odd as the conceited fantasies of mainstream religions.
One of the occupational hazards that streetwalkers face is rape. They are vulnerable to such a crime because their testimony is so easily discredited. Something like that dynamic might be going on with flakey New Agers. They exist on the margins and their very marginality makes them vulnerable. ...... Be a conformist in as many things as possible and accept the embrace of the herd. That's not necessarily the ticket to happiness, but it does lower your chances of being raped......I'd give the same advice to alpha males. They're not in danger of being raped, but if they stick out too much (heh,heh), they're in danger of being accused of rape.
I was raped when I was 22. While it was traumatic, it did not derail my life. Like Christine Blasey Ford, this woman just wants to blame someone else for her failures. And to further obstruct any chance for personal success "...she tried, twice, to reenroll in graduate school, with a focus on historical African astronomy" She is a flake. I've known so many like her and they are self-absorbed and delusional.
"The vast majority of disputes that could be lawsuits do not become lawsuits but are dealt with in other ways."
What Tank said.
If this person is serious, she did not have a dispute: she was the victim of a crime.
But she did nothing, except bitch decades after the supposed fact.
I don’t like Neil deGrasse Tyson, but I did not believe Christine Blasey Ford and I do not believe Tchiya Amet. If she did not go to the police when it happened then she must not have felt that she was raped at the time. Actually her case is like the Columbia “Mattress Girl,” who thought she’d just had a bad experience with her boyfriend (anal sex is painful — who knew?) until someone convinced her that bad sex, even if consensual at the time, is rape.
#walkaway.
Some crimes are credible more because of bulk than because of credibility. If just one or two women had come forward against Cosby, I'd be inclined to take his side of the story. Same thing with Weinsteiin. However, when dozens of unrelated women make similar complaints, you have to think there's something to the charges.......Tyson is still in the land of plausible denial. If more women come toward, his ham is cooked, or, at least, smoked. If it's just one or two women complaining about Indian handshakes, he can survive.
Shouting Thomas has a point - though he is too loud. Trial by media when the issue involved is a felony is a cancer on on our society, particularly when there is no absolutely no chance of a real trial that would have a chance of getting at some semblance of truth.
The truth is unknowable in these situations. I've known a couple mental women who invented rape stories to justify their whack jobbery
Ronan Farrow said he published that uncorroborated piece on Kavanaugh because he was hoping it would give other women the courage to come forward. That never happened. Can we accept the fact that not a lot of women had problems with Kavanaugh's behavior as a data point n favor of his innocence?
deGrasse Tyson, who is a ridiculous person, has claimed that his interactions with the other two accusers involved them misunderstanding the intent of a very special "Native American handshake" he gives to "special people." The handshake involves slipping one finger into the other person's palm while shaking hands and massaging the other person's palm with the errant finger.
None of us can know whether he is guilty of anything, but I think we can agree that this excuse is the least-self aware, nerdiest, and most cringing explanation for diddling a person -- in the ENTIRE solar system. It's also deeply anti-scientific, which calls into question deGrasse Tyson's claims of being the scientific-y, rational person in his interactions with these women.
Or, maybe, the first accuser dropped out of society and moved onto an Indian reservation because deGrasse Tyson's secret handshake really works. In any case, yuck.
I just don't know about Woody Allen. There's doubtless some kind of kink in his libido, but I would not convict him of the crime he was accused He's worked with dozens of young women over the years, but only one has come forward with a story, and that story points to creepy rather than illegal behavior. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, Due process and all that. Same with Tyson.
“Amet would never return to science (though she tried, twice, to reenroll in graduate school, with a focus on historical African astronomy).”
Sounds like she never arrived at science in the first place.
mockturtle@8:20am
mockturtle shows herself to be a level-headed WOMAN--I knew there was a reason I instinctively liked her..
http://twitter.com/hashtag/MeTooFar
"You are a Marxist feminist when it suits your purposes. Your tactic here is Marxist."
???
Where is the Marxism?
(BTW: deGrasse Tyson always strikes me as a puffed-up, self-infatuated egomaniac who thinks he's funny. Is he rapist? I don't know. I don't not believe it could be true.)
Look, we HAVE a legal process for this
Put the woman on TV to read a speech.
If she cries, or her voice cracks, she is credible
NGT forfeits his career.
New rules - everyone gets to be an instant judge, what we feel is our truth.
Get with the post-modern program, people!
"I would have bet money that Neil de Grasse Tyson was a homo."
No, he doesn't present that way at all.
(That doesn't mean he couldn't be gay, but his mannerisms do not communicate that.Of course, many gay men and women do not behave in ways that might indicate their sexual orientation. )
Big Mike said...
"I don’t like Neil deGrasse Tyson, but I did not believe Christine Blasey Ford and I do not believe Tchiya Amet. If she did not go to the police when it happened then she must not have felt that she was raped at the time."
There is no evidence that Ford ever even met Kavanaugh, other than her statements, and she does not claim he raped her. Amet was a black graduate student a few years younger than Tyson, who was introduced to him by the University. Tyson has claimed they "dated" briefly. She says they hung out together, as friends, until one day he drugged and raped her.
"I don't see the issue. The woman says Tyson raped her. If you don't think that is credible, don't credit it. But where is the issue? That she said it? That her saying it was reported in media? That some people believe her? That because they believe her, they may be less inclined to have dealings with Tyson? Which of those things should the law prevent?"
The issue could be slander. Simply being accused could cause de Grasse to be blacklisted from public speaking or other events, pressured to resign his position, cause donors to stop giving to the Hayden Planetarium, etc. The accuser does not have to show any proof to do damage to de Grasse Tyson.
If I were accused of rape, you can be sure I would engage an attorney and sue the complainant!
"I do not believe Tchiya Amet. If she did not go to the police when it happened then she must not have felt that she was raped at the time."
You show your lack of awareness. Many women are raped and do not report it, for many reasons: they're ashamed or traumatized; they're fearful of being disbelieved, or being called "crazy," or being blamed for whatever may have happened; they're fearful of ruining their own lives or the lives of their families for making public accusations; they're fearful of reprisals; they're fearful of being accused of just wanting to destroy the other person's life; the person who raped them is a family member or someone they know or someone of great authority or prominence; they just want the experience to "go away" so they refuse to acknowledge it; and so on.
So long after the fact, I don't care. Some of Tyson's excuses come across as silly to my reading, but then I always considered him a bit of a fraud.
sex assault only matters when the allegations are against anyone on the right.
"...I always considered (de Grasse Tyson) a bit of a fraud."
How so? Does he present false information about the universe?
He certainly is a puffed-up blowhard, too interested by far in coming across as hip and funny and cool, but he has his educational and scientific bona fides.
A puffed-up blowhard is a bit of a fraud.
@Robert Cook:he has his educational and scientific bona fides.
He has a real PhD. However, his scientific work not been very productive or influential. He is a popularizer of science, and a celebrity, and so the media and public know his name and not those of the people doing the real scientific work.
Most celebrity scientists are like that--their media influence is all out of proportion to their scientific influence.
Exceptions: Einstein and Hawking. In the 20th and 21st centuries anyway. There are other real scientists who have achieved celebrity but not very many and not all that well-known, not so much as Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Althouse wants to give some looney tunes benefit of the doubt because #wymynz
> he has his educational and scientific bona fides.
Good enough for a television, anyway. I don't think he can be counted as a working scientist.
Rules:
1. If you are male, you are a genetically programmed rapist.
2. Being male or female is just mental
3. Believe all women. Women don’t lie about rape.
4. Blacks males are railroaded in our justice system
5. Some males are important for the cause, so accusations against them are ignored, except if their are multiple accusers (Weinstein). Minnesota attorney general, NJ Senator, Clinton, etc.
6. Kavanaugh lied and should be impeached.
7. Pence rules discriminate against females.
Based on the rules, Tyson should be ok unless more accusers come forward since he has the right politics and is Black.
I too wanted to focus on historical African astronomy, but the University of Oregon did not have any courses on the subject when I was a graduate student there during the 1970s.
If you are in an astrophysics graduate school but don't understand any mathematics above geometry, then it might be a good idea to focus on historical African astronomy.
Jupiter said... And BTW, nothing is more science-y than energy and planets.
Oh, sure! That's the answer we'd expect from you, you big ball of gases!
So where is the Crack Emcee? New Age, black man accused, this seems like his story. Did he flounce off again while I wasn't looking?
I too wanted to focus on historical African astronomy
That could be really interesting, depending on how much data is available.
But you have to do a lot of history and/or astronomy before you're going to get someone to pay you to work on something like that.
For a brief chuckle, google-image "Neil deGrasse Bison."
hmmm. The Black Bill Nye meets Blasey-Ford 2.0 ?
"historical African astronomy"
As Saul Bellow didn't say, who is the Kepler of the Zulus?
"I would have bet money that Neil de Grasse Tyson was a homo."
No, he doesn't present that way at all.
It's Gaydar vs. Gaydar
"[Amet] was posting videos of colored tuning forks endowed with vibrational therapeutic energy that she channels from the orbiting planets. As a scientist, I found this odd..."
New Agey religions almost always end up...er...become sex cults. The Family of Love, People's Temple, etc. I find that not odd.
Seems like we're missing critical evidence. What's in his high school yearbooks?
gilbar said...
"Oh, sure! That's the answer we'd expect from you, you big ball of gases!"
Lick my big, red Spot, Earthling.
iowan2 said...
The only way to clean this mess up is to force the left to live by their own rules.
Absolutely. Tyson will be treated reasonably fairly by all but the most committed gender-determines-guilt practitioners because he's (a) usefully left wing and (b) black. But after this everyone will use the same model and deviations will further discredit the practice.
On a separate note I'm not sure what the complainants expect to achieve. We have a legal process designed specifically to handle these complaints. You chose not to use it and now want to create an entirely new process which omits basics (starting with an investigation) and expect us to punish him anyway?
Reasonable people aren't going to join that bandwagon.
Anyone who announced that Chrissy Fraud was credibly accusing Kav-brah, and then decides that this woman, who actually knew and spent time with Tyson, is not credible, well, that person has severely politicized judgment and decision making ability.
Also, William@8:40... By the end of the week of hearings, 16000 women across the country were accusing Kav-brah of raping them. Salem Effect.
Reasonable people aren't going to join that bandwagon.
The problem is that our host and the Left feel that emotions are just as valid as reason.
My own bias, as one who grew up in and has lived within the cultural norms of our western society, is to look askance at those who drift into "new age" lifestyles. To me it suggests a peculiar (and unreliable) view of the world and also their view of life events. She may be seeing her experience through an entirely different prism- one that makes sense only to her.
#MeToo. DeGrasse should hope he is still politically congruent.
@Jupiter (9:10), which is why I wrote that Amet's complaints actually remind me of the Columbia Mattress Girl.
You show your lack of awareness. Many women are raped and do not report it ...
@Cookie, is there a point where you choose to live in the real world? Once upon a time police departments were skeptical of rape claims and once upon a time a good defense attorney would make the victim appear to have been "asking for it." But by the 1980s this sort of thing was very much in the rear view mirror. She could have gone to the police and received a sympathetic hearing. She didn't. If she's suffering, well, she had her chance and blew it.
I don't disbelieve Amet because she's into New Age BS (I'll let Crack do that). But after 30 years it's all he said - she said and there's no more reason to believe her than there is to disbelieve him.
I would have bet money that Neil de Grasse Tyson was a homo.
Who's to say he isn't?
I can believe she was raped and believe she didn't go to the police. That's easier for me to believe than the notion that such event must be fought in a court. That's just civility bullshit. It could be argued at the point of a gun and often is.
That said, I can also believe this is a woman, who is blaming a man for her own failings in life, and that NdGT, who I don't like, I'd innocent of rape. He molests the concept of science, but that doesn't mean he molested this woman.
Oh, and I choose C, none of the above, but B before A, except after C.
So where is the Crack Emcee?
Shhhhh.
Exceptions: Einstein and Hawking. In the 20th and 21st centuries anyway. There are other real scientists who have achieved celebrity but not very many and not all that well-known, not so much as Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Surely you're joking.
How many crazy, unscientific, non-factual things does an accuser need to advocate before their judgment and word is suspect? A person's belief system and their willingness to accept things we know to be untrue is pretty disqualifying in my opinion. They could be telling the truth about something, but their word is no different than the word of a known admitted liar to me. I might believe the word of someone more reliable, but I need positive proof from you.
"By the end of the week of hearings, 16000 women across the country were accusing Kav-brah of raping them."
You've come a long way baby. Where is the male equivalent of this hysterical lying?
"The only way to clean this mess up is to force the left to live by their own rules."
I wish it was that easy, but we all know those rules will change as soon as they stop working for the left. For the left there are no reliable standards other than the pursuit of power over others. Like a slipperiness of eel, it's their greatest strength.
Surely you're joking.
I like that, Mr. Feynman!
Again with the Marxist Feminist bleatings.
Kevin,
"alter boy"
Why bring transgender into it?
gilbar,
Shouting Thomas rarely fails to live up to his self-selected handle. BUT if you look past the bombast, it turns out he's often pointing out a real problem, even if you or I would never phrase it in the hysterical way he does.
I think Tyson is an asshat and his secret handshake creepy as fuck. But this woman has major credibility issues (you believe in what she believes in, you're probably suffering from a mental illness of some sort). But I DON'T CARE one wit all the reasons womyn don't report "rapes" -- if they fail to do so within the statute of limitations, fuck them. Shouting Thomas has some great points. We don't do slander after the fact and people who give credence to such allegations in these kind of situations are not to be taken seriously.
THEOLDMAN
Honestly, I'd never heard of this guy.
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Bad Lieutenant said...
posting videos of colored tuning forks endowed with vibrational therapeutic energy that she channels from the orbiting planets.
"You call that religion? Really?"
They tell us Oprah is NewAge. OSHO from "Wild, Wild Country" fame was NewAge. Jim Jones preached NewAge from his San Francisco pulpit before killing 900 people.
But - after 40 years of this nonsense - do they ever tell you what NewAge is? WHere's the 60 Minutes expose? (Oprah works for them now). Where's all the documentaries on it? They don't exist. We're on our own - with the NewAge feeding on us.
WHere's Crack?
Watching you grapple with the reality I've left you, because I knew you'd have to - eventually.
Amet would never return to science (though she tried, twice, to reenroll in graduate school, with a focus on historical African astronomy).
Buzzfeed has edited the piece to change "historical African astronomy" to "ancient astronomy." Must be a story there.
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