I've already read articles on this subject and I know the standard problems: One person wants relax and the other wants a busy schedule of seeing the sights. One sleeps late, the other is an early bird. One likes the beach, the other likes museums.
From the article:
"I want to be able to take in as much as possible! My boyfriend is the complete opposite and is rather lackadaisical about the whole thing. Not to say he isn’t excited to visit, but c’mon, buddy, quicken your steps a bit. It drives me crazy that he would rather just happen upon something cool than guarantee it. We don’t have to follow a minute-by-minute schedule, but a day’s plan would definitely ease my anxiety around potentially missing an important historical landmark."Apparently, women are big out-and-proud control freaks:
“I live with my boyfriend on a sailboat traveling the world. [But] he doesn’t plan! He just goes with the flow. He genuinely believes the world will take care of you if you are open to it. He will hitchhike and wait for opportunities to appear. Unbelievably, memories have been made for us this way and we’ve made incredible new friends. But for me, the type-A planner of the relationship, it’s hard for me to trust that everything will just work out. But it does!”So... his way doesn't sound like a worst thing. This should be something to love about him — relaxing into spontaneity.
But then there's this:
“My partner is terrible at relaxing when we are on vacation. On our last trip, I asked him to make a few dinner reservations, and when I came back to see what he had picked, he had our trip planned out hour by hour with activities, when really all I wanted to do is chill at the beach...And:
The one thing my partner does that annoys me when we travel is not relax. I would love to just take it easy, see where the day takes us and drink wine. He needs everything to be planned and doesn’t drink nearly enough....So then it's not a male versus female thing. Sometimes the man is the control freak and the woman is relaxed.
Anyway, no ticks!
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Your partner can check you for ticks after the vacation hike.
A tick spoon is good for getting them off the dog.
Have a few planned events but react to the unexpected events along the way. And be willing to audible when a plan isn't going accordingly. I think that's how we travel together.
Article that will never be allowed to see the light of day: "The Worst Things Women Do While Traveling, According to Men."
I have the same incompatibilities just within myself. I want to do things, but the other me just wants to chill. The sides are pretty evenly matched and the war swings back and forth in the trenches with no clear winner in sight. The feelings run too deep to expect any kind of peace in our time.
“One sleeps late, the other is an early bird. One likes the beach, the other likes museums.”
I don’t see the problem.
Traveling with someone is a great way to find out if you are actually compatible. You can accurately assess your relationship dynamic. Decide if you can get along with each other. If either of you is capable of making concessions to the wants and needs of the other.
Traveling doesn't require you to be joined at the hip or make it a passive aggressive fight about who wins in deciding the trip events. If I want to look at a museum and my husband wants to go to a vintage car show, we don't make a big deal out of it. He does his thing. I do mine. We meet up later and share our experiences and exchange a gift that we may have bought for each other at our separate events.
If you can't get along or be comfortable traveling in a car for a few hours. In a hotel for a few days. Sightseeing. Making dinner reservations....you might want to reconsider a lifetime of being in each other's company.
"Sometimes the man is the control freak and the woman is relaxed."
Just Oprah.
Unbelievably, memories have been made for us this way
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Goddamn men! If they would only do what the women want!
Out and proud misandry is so in right now.
Thanks for the heads-up about the bad link. Fixed (and heads-up deleted).
On trips, I plan so we can relax. I don't plan to the hour, but enough to give the day structure. And the option of blowing things off and laying around is always available.
In my experience, the "let's just see what happens" approach causes more anxiety and tension than planning.
Have a few planned events but react to the unexpected events along the way. And be willing to audible when a plan isn't going accordingly. I think that's how we travel together.
Yup
When hiking in the Rockies, it's imperative that you search your body every day for ticks. And not just in the Rockies. My dog got a terrible tick infestation in the Rogue Valley in southern Oregon. Yikes, they were all over him! After that, I put him on flea/tick prevention.
Many, if not most, of the online dating profiles I see for women talk about their love of traveling. I've come to think it's all bullshit and consider any profile with that in it to be red-flagged.
I prefer to travel solo. While my late husband and I traveled well together, I can't imagine extended trips with anyone else.
My sister-in-law likes vacations that include an element of "adventure" (sometimes edging on danger). She not-infrequently returns from a vacation needing a week of rest (at home), or medical treatment for injuries (infected blisters, twisted ankles), and sore muscles from vigorous hiking. My brother (her husband) prefers vacations that are for relaxation (eating, drinking, snoozing, sex, museums, walking tours and hikes, yes -- but not hikes that require physical therapy at the end. When my brother complains to me, I have pointed this obvious issue; I think they now do separate for a day or two or three on vacation, where she takes a physically demanding hike, while he takes a walk and a nap and reads a book.
My sister's idea of 'travel' involves five-star restaurants. And I have friends who enjoy cruises [on commercial liners]. Yechh!
"Article that will never be allowed to see the light of day: "The Worst Things Women Do While Traveling, According to Men."
That was my first thought too, so I pondered it, and yes, there are articles critical of women for things like discounting or hostility toward masculinity, or for expecting to have it all without men. So, basically they are criticized for not liking men and all the reasons they have for that.
"“One sleeps late, the other is an early bird. One likes the beach, the other likes museums.” I don’t see the problem."
In other words, you do see the problem and you see it as so bad you would avoid the activity of traveling together entirely.
If your idea is the couple can go to the same place and just split up for a few hours while one goes to a beach and the other goes to a museum, I think you're wrong about the existence of travel destinations that are worth going to for both museums and beaches. I mean I've been to the whaling museum in Nantucket, but that's not what a traveler who wants museums is after. What place with great museums has beaches you'd spend a lot of time and money getting to? And what place with destination beaches has destination museums?
The true message is, all issues are the man's fault.
I'm reading "The Worst Things Men Do While Traveling, According to Women/These ticks are why you can’t stop fighting on vacation."
I'd never read an article with such an idiotic title.
Greg Hlatky said...
Article that will never be allowed to see the light of day: "The Worst Things Women Do While Traveling, According to Men."
Great follow up story--go back to the same couples, ask about the same vacations, but talk to the men instead of the women. No, wait, on second thought, that wouldn't work. Most of the men will say "we're great travel companions."
Men should stop trying to please women. It's quite impossible. And the women will respect you more.
Ann Althouse said...What place with great museums has beaches you'd spend a lot of time and money getting to?
Barcelona.
Just spitballing but maybe traveling by sailboat is not the optimal method of transportation for a Type-A personality?
As for the ticks, they can be romantic if utilized properly per Brad Paisley:
"Hey, that gives me an idea
Let's get out of this bar
Drive out into the country
And find a place to park
'Cause I'd like to see you out in the moonlight
I'd like to kiss you way back in the sticks
I'd like to walk you through a field of wildflowers
And I'd like to check you for ticks"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OctrGD4JW8U
Your partner can check you for ticks after the vacation hike.
On one of our trips, I went down a side trail that turned out not to be a trail and couldn't get back. For the next several days, my wife checked me for ticks, and found quite a few.
Yup, couples arguing isn’t an uncommon sight on the road. Or they’re not talking to each other. It’s really a sad thing to see in a beautiful or interesting place.
Travelling is stressful at times. If you pick a hectic destination like Bangkok, Bangalore or Buenos Aires it’ll be stressful as soon as you leave the hotel front door. If there are relationship issues, don’t travel together. That’s a golden rule.
On the other hand, if you’re with a partner you’re bonded to, it’s the best shared thing you can do. So much to talk about. Also, travel sex is really really great. Leaving her panties off for sightseeing is a natural thing, away, for example. Or getting a bit drunk. Get into the freedom anyway you can without getting arrested. You’ll laugh more than you do at home.
"Men should stop trying to please women. It's quite impossible. And the women will respect you more."
Men need to understand that dissatisfaction is how women exert power, or try to. It makes makes men jump though endless hoops, and do all kinds of crazy things, even get married when we would rather not. The thing is, they like you more when you ignore that power play and do what you want. Nothing turns them off more than you giving in over and over.
I know this because I self-identify as a woman on alternate Tuesdays to get the inside dope. I know all their secrets.
Programmers use "foo" and "bar" as stand-ins for generic objects, functions, or variables, "whose exact identity is unimportant and serve only to demonstrate a concept." *
This article should be titled:
"The Worst Things Foos Do While Traveling, According to Bars"
In my case: one loves to travel the other hates it.
The article never gets written.
So,the worst things men do are also the things that a different woman desires. Sounds like they just need to get with the right men.
"Men should stop trying to please women. It's quite impossible. And the women will respect you more."
Yup. But if you’re going to be old school, that comes with opening doors.
Yeah, dogs are tick magnets. Close to the ground and full of hair.
I'm not big on insecticides but I use them in Tick country. Its boring having to constantly worry about Ticks.
There's nothing more annoying then to be a "planner" in a family of "lets just go with the flow" types.
I've learned to live with it.
Oh course, men should try to please women - up to a point.
Some men just go overboard.
Insect politics!
“Get into the freedom anyway you can without getting arrested”
Quoting myself here. LOL
I got arrested once, sex related in a foreign country. I was just 17 (I got the travel addiction early) and met an older German girl at a youth hostel in Venice. We spent the night on a beach on Lido Island, had sex on the sand and fell asleep a little too high, then woken up by police dogs barking at us. We were arrested and taken to a police station and given a thorough interrogation. Was still worth it.
If your idea is the couple can go to the same place and just split up for a few hours while one goes to a beach and the other goes to a museum, I think you're wrong about the existence of travel destinations that are worth going to for both museums and beaches.
Not all places will have all attractions that appeal to each person in an equal amount. It IS ideal to find a location where there are some elements that are interesting to each person separately AND jointly. Ideal places are very very rare.
The issue is that the couple or group of travelers need to be flexible and recognize that it isn't or shouldn't be a winner take all proposition. Meaning. We go the BEACH because it is what one person always wants whether or not the others do (and then pout if you don't get your way).
Or...someone insists on planning every minute detail and treats the trip like a precision military operation (my Uncle Rick who was an Air Force pilot and drove us all nuts!!) leaving no room for serendipity.
Sometimes the travel experience is more what I want. Sometimes it is more what my husband wants. Take turns if the ideal place doesn't exist. Go with the flow. FIND something to do.
I see no reason that you have to spend every moment together. Go your separate ways and then meet up for the togetherness later.
Referring to voluntary behavior as a tic shows a lack of self-awareness.
Referring to it as a "tick" shows illiteracy.
From the story: “Also, do not pack your entire wardrobe. One pair of trendy Allbirds shoes can be enough for walking, the gym, etc.”
I was informed that this was to list complaints about men.
If you don't have compatible traveling styles perhaps you shouldn't travel together. My wife likes to go to exotic places (Burma, Sri Lanka, Morocco), I do not. She goes with people that do enjoy such destinations: her mother, her sister, and a friend.
We do travel together but to civilized places (Scotland, England, Italy, Ireland, and a variety of locations in North America). Over time we have developed a system whereby she makes the plans and I go along. Happily, we like to do the same things and at the same pace. The best part for me is that every day's activities are a surprise. I've yet to be disappointed.
I've heard a rumor that we are going to either the Galapagos or Cinque Terre next summer. She'll have to tell me which one so that I can pack appropriately.
Dust Bunny Queen said...
"Go your separate ways and then meet up for the togetherness later"
Considering how well written and logical that is, why do I have a problem with the reality of the principle, given I travel almost full-time and have done for years? Why don't I separate for hours from my occasional female travel partners, and feel that somehow it's not ever necessary?
I think it depends on the type of travel and the destination. If it's a "holiday" then I can see your point. I get it now.
But a travel destination and a holiday are not always the same thing. No one goes to Varanasi (maybe the greatest travel destination in then world, imo) for a holiday, unless that's the descriptive for time off work. They go instead to Barcelona. You don't leave your partner to do something else in Varanasi. You share every second. You can't split on an adventure when every moment is a new life experience.
Yup. But if you’re going to be old school, that comes with opening doors.
I would never suggest throwing out basic courtesies. Observing them is not about 'pleasing women'.
"The Worst Things Men Do While Traveling, According to Women/These ticks are why you can’t stop fighting on vacation."
The worst thing they do is not do it the way the woman wants to do it in all of these cases.
The bottom line is that the women are complaining yet again about men. Maybe nunneries should be a thing again.
Why not just name the article "Yet another reason men suck"?
There is almost as much disagreement among the women interviewed as there is between individual couples sited. I say almost since one trend emerges; women interviewed for articles on why men suck are control freaks (even while complaining that their mate over plans!)
(Sounds to me like Vanessa, 36, needs to switch partners with Jeffers.)
By tomorrow lunch I'll be in Etosha, Namibia, to see the lions. If I had a woman with me right now I doubt she'd be wandering off.
I guess my viewpoint on the go your separate ways and meet up later has to do with the fact that we are not newly weds, young people in the throes of getting to know each other..young luv :-D
We have been married for 25 years. We have had lots of "togetherness" and still do spend most of our free time "together" because we generally like the same things... but also realize that we CAN be separated and still have a great relationship.
For instance: We both like vintage cars/hot rods. We belong to a car club. When we go to various shows and places like Reno for Hot August Nites, it is a destination for car viewing which means a LOT of walking in the hot sun...hours. Stopping to look at the cars. Having in depth discussions about the vehicles, mechanics, upholstery, paint, etc etc etc. I enjoy it and take pictures.....usually.
Once in a while I get tired or bored with the show, I don't feel like it, and decide to do something else. Often I will bring a book in my purse or backpack. Tell him or everyone (if we are with other people) that I'm gonna take a break and will meet later at X designated spot. I go get a beer or other adult beverage, find a shady spot under a tree, relax and read. Carry on husband. Carry on everyone else. See ya later.
We both get what we want. He gets car overdose. I to see some cars AND get a cold beer while finishing some more of my book. One of his friends was amazed that I was fine with just "sitting it out" for a while and said his Ex wife would whine, throw a fit and demand that they just leave when she wasn't happy. I said....EX is the operative word...isn't it?
Brand new experiences in an exotic location....yeah....we probably should do those together....but only IF we both want to.
mockturtle said...
"I would never suggest throwing out basic courtesies. Observing them is not about 'pleasing women'."
Of course.
RobinGoodfellow said...I was informed that this was to list complaints about men.
My sense from the excerpt it that it is a general list of complaints, with "men who" attached to the beginning of each.
Sex and social constructs identified as gender attributes.
DBQueen is on point I believe. My wife and I have been married almost 30 years, travel frequently, and both wander about when visiting a museum or historic site. No need for constant hand holding or anything at this stage of life. Planning is ok for some trips if setting up transportation and such, but is easily overdone. Years ago we took a cross country trip, PA to CA and back (out through the north, back through the south), with one hotel reservation in LA that my aunt made for us. Went fine with the exception of the Jeep breaking down in the Painted Desert National Park. But we got to spend a few days on old Rt. 66 in Arizona. Glass half full!
"Sometimes the man is the control freak and the woman is relaxed."
woman is control freak, man is relaxed == man is SCUM and should be executed
man is control freak, woman is relaxed == man is SCUM and should be executes
Brad Paisley's answer The Fishing Song
Why can't the sightseeing person leave the hang out person at the hotel to hang out while they go sightseeing?
I see tic and tick confused all the time.
I read the article, by the way, and can't figure out why it blames the guys in the headline. The problems sound like just differing attitudes about what a vacation trip is supposed to be about, and not even gender specific problems at that.
I guess guys are just supposed to behave however the women want.
My husband likes to sleep in on vacation. I like to go to new breakfast restaurants on vacation. This has never caused a problem because he sleeps and I go.
DBQ said...”Sometimes the travel experience is more what I want. Sometimes it is more what my husband wants. Take turns if the ideal place doesn't exist. Go with the flow. FIND something to do.
I see no reason that you have to spend every moment together. Go your separate ways and then meet up for the togetherness later.”
Exactly. And there isn’t anything wrong with a solo trip if one person really wants to go to a destination and the other really does not. Althouse works very hard at making this complicated. It’s no wonder she doesn’t like to travel.
So, per the women interviewed for this piece of fluff:
-Some men don't plan all of the details of a vacation, and that's bad.
-Some men plan all of the details of a vacation, and that's bad.
...in other words, the article can be boiled down to "Man bad."
Kind of like the "Orange man bad" template for anything about Trump.
So, basically they are criticized for not liking men and all the reasons they have for that.
They don't need to like men. They get pissy if they get any pushback from not liking men, or being actively hateful toward men (like certain professors taking sabbaticals in Pakistan)
'Sure we hate you...but why do you need to be mean back?'
Which is civility bullshit
Meanwhile, on the other end of the travel spectrum, the inSight Lander has just (apparently) performed a successful Mars landing.
Yay us!
"What place with great museums has beaches you'd spend a lot of time and money getting to? And what place with destination beaches has destination museums?"
Barcelona
oops, sorry Tim, didn't see your identical answer.
@Althouse, Meade sent it to you? Did I miss a post where Meade went out of town over Thanksgiving?
As is my wont, I would like to mention pedantry and Althouse in the same sentence regarding that flaw of 'tic' vs. 'tick', but, darn it, they are being PAID to write. They have editors being PAID to catch them!
Are none of them doing their jobs? Obviously I don't wield as cruel a pen for errors here, but we are writing extemporaneously.
I would like to mention pedantry and Althouse in the same sentence regarding that flaw of 'tic' vs. 'tick', but, darn it, they are being PAID to write. They have editors being PAID to catch them!
Are none of them doing their jobs? Them being professional writers and editors.
They are as educated as we could expect from our broken and completely incompetent educational system in the United States.
The level of ignorance and maleducation is more than just disheartening. It is criminal....and more importantly DANGEROUS. What they don't know is enormous. What they wrongly think they know is endless.
Students do not go to school to learn or to think. They are there to be indoctrinated. Not more and a whole lot less. A generation or two of dumbed down students. This is on purpose.
Men! They're the worst! Am I right?
Men! They're the worst! Am I right?
Well, one does ones best. Thank you for noticing
They are as educated as we could expect from our broken and completely incompetent educational system in the United States.
Well, yes and no.
Mostly I agree but having seen scans of some original documents of things written a ways back, I saw a lot of 'differently spelled' words.
But most of them lacked a standardized dictionary and were also writing extemporaneously free hand
Did you notice the 2 with control issues said "boyfriend", and the 2 that just wanted to relax said "partner"?
"In my experience, the "let's just see what happens" approach causes more anxiety and tension than planning. "
In my experience, control freaks are driven by anxiety nobody else feels.
I would rather submit to a reenactment of the Bataan death march than travel with my ex wife.
So is this all men, or just white men?
Getting along, being married, works best when each partner puts in way more that 50% of the effort. Doing stuff, including travel, each side could be the first to give in, and at least meet half way. When I consent, give in, I almost always am glad I had experiences I would have not tried without being led. And my better half, explains to me that she loves watching me really get into something, she doesn't really 'get'. So while the experience does not much for her, sharing my excitement, is full filling to her, with the added benefit of having had a shared memory of a grand time.
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