Said I, in the comments in
last night's café. Some commenters insisted I needed to shout about the outrages in the works, and I said, "I can’t shout about anything without studying and understanding what’s going on and I am not going to be goaded into doing that." And, "There’s so much alarmism from all sides these days. I am unimpressed." The pressure continued, and I said:
Those of you who are alarmed about "stealing" the election have a taste of how many anti-Trumpists have felt for 2 years. He "stole" the election.
I simply do not know the facts and don't think I can learn them, so I am declining to add noise to the noise.
IN THE COMMENTS: Joan wrote:
All of you calling bullshit on Althouse saying "Trump stole the election" need to check your reading comprehension. That's not Althouse's opinion, it's the opinion of the anti-Trumpers who have been saying it for 2 years.
Sooner or later we're going to hear "turnabout is fair play" from them. They miss the fact that Trump didn't actually steal anything. They fielded a bad candidate and failed to cheat enough to overcome her deficiencies. They're desperately trying, after repeating the first half of the losing formula, not to repeat the second half of it.
FWIW I'm with Althouse. I have nothing to contribute and don't need the anxiety. Somehow the Republic will survive, no matter the outcome. We survived Obama, and Trump has already undone a lot of the harms that were inflicted during his terms.
And Jessica wrote:
I feel the same on a broader level. Substitute "recount stories" with "all political news stories" and that's where I am. I research enough to cast a responsible vote at various intervals, but that's it. When I stopped all ingestion of political news, I emerged from a fog of worry, dread, and anguish. And guess what: All that worry, dread, and anguish was uttlerly pointless. As in, literally, it had no point, other than clicks for the purveyors and entertainment (however masochistic) for me. When I decided to find my entertainment elsewhere -- in my job, my children, my home, my faith, novels, history, apolitical TV -- my entire life got better. I feel happier, I'm more grateful, I sleep better. I still check in with you, Althouse, a few times a week, but that's it. No more politics. A weight has been lifted and I've lightened my steps.
Posts
193 comments:
BS and you know it.
"He 'stole' the election."
Sure thing. By getting 304 EC votes to her 227.
Democrats love people like you.
It makes the theft easy.
This is absolute garbage. Florida has obvious discrepancies and election officials who have already been caught in 2016 committing fraud.
You can blow off what Democrats are doing in Florida Georgia and Arizona and everywhere else.
As soon as we determine nothing will be done and Democrats are allowed to steal these races it will tear this country apart.
You can likely kiss that retirement goodbye if you are waiting for future payments.
They can blue was their tits loose but Trump will still be president.
"Those of you who are alarmed about "stealing" the election have a taste of how many
anti-Trumpists have felt for 2 years."
I don't think that is at all fair. We put up with Obama for 8 years ,and we would have put up with Hillary, as best we could, for 8 more. The deceitfully-named Democrats are attempting to overthrow the lawfully elected government of the United States. If they get their way, the Constitution is a dead letter. And they have no more respect for elections than they do for private property. The have become like Erdogan in Turkey; "Democracy is like a street car. When you get to your stop, you get off".
Both parties should be vigilant and properly lawyered up to fight. I'm trusting the adversary system. What could I possibly add? I care about the outcome, but my watching the details is just a way to stay anxious and disturbed. That's recount derangement syndrome.
It is depressing. Watching the democrats and their media steal stuff after the game is over is.... depressing.
Althouse wrote: Those of you who are alarmed about "stealing" the election have a taste of how many anti-Trumpists have felt for 2 years. He "stole" the election.
The scare quotes lessen the meaning those verbs, but not not enough. You are factually wrong.
"You are factly wrong."
Whatever that means. You're speaking about your own feelings. You are not a source of the facts.
At the intersection of Barrack H Obama Boulevard and Martin Luther King Boulevard in West Palm Beach there is a campaign sign for Alcee Hastings. One of his slogans is "Tried and true." I sorely wanted to change it to "Tried and convicted." The voters who keep sending this guy back to Congress are the ones controlling the counting.
But I am not interested in the shit show either. If it comes out that the count is reversed and evidence was destroyed, or we see lawyers cheering every time a military ballot is disqualified, I will look at what the options are.
It doesn’t help you that Synema, a total piece of shit who obviously hates our country, is placed in the senate over a veteran with voter fraud.
These people are enemies of the republic and it’s foundaions.
Any governing body with synema in if will not just be tainted. It will be specifically directed at veterans who see what is going on.
We have a lot more invested in this than you do.
Bullshit Althouse. How did Trump "steal" the election? You are just looking out for crybaby's feelings.
Bullshit. Trump stole nothing. He wasnt given democrat debating questions, he did t have the media running interference for him. Just bullshit.
Democrat lawyers in open court, recorded by the court stenographer, are arguing for the court to count illegal votes.
Unless there is evidence that Trump did something similar, the comparison is wanting.
One would think that a retired law prof would not conflate how anti-Trumpers "feel" about the election outcome, with the undeniable fact that Trump won the E/C vote.
Ditto with a retired law prof claiming ("without evidence", as the media now likes to put it) that Trump "stole" the election.
Trump didn't steal the election. He usurped the Throne from its rightful heir.
Before 2000 it was not necessary to lawyer up for recounts. Which party brought about the change?
We should raise a statue to Richard Nixon. A true patriot.
Does Althouse have a "Get Your Own Damn Blog" tag?
Ann Althouse said...
Both parties should be vigilant and properly lawyered up to fight. I'm trusting the adversary system. What could I possibly add? I care about the outcome, but my watching the details is just a way to stay anxious and disturbed. That's recount derangement syndrome.
What else could you possibly add?
For fucks sake why did we ever defend this country.
Here we are on “Thanks for your service we want to take your guns away day.”
It is fucking ridiculous watching people stand off to the side while the country is torn down. If you find yourself wanting to say thanks for your service today do something else. Fight the obvious destruction of our system.
Ann Althouse said...
"I care about the outcome, but my watching the details is just a way to stay anxious and disturbed."
Agreed. That is my position as well. I have already spent as much as I can justify on lawyers for our side. The thing is, they do this, and we don't. Don't give us that moral equivalence crap. The Democrats are scum, and they will steal elections if they can. Once they have stolen enough of them, they will cancel the rest.
There they go again.
Ann Althouse said...
"You are factly wrong."
Whatever that means. You're speaking about your own feelings. You are not a source of the facts.
***********************
But YOU are the source for how the anti-Trumpers feel?
Snort.
All of you calling bullshit on Althouse saying "Trump stole the election" need to check your reading comprehension. That's not Althouse's opinion, it's the opinion of the anti-Trumpers who have been saying it for 2 years.
Sooner or later we're going to hear "turnabout is fair play" from them. They miss the fact that Trump didn't actually steal anything. They fielded a bad candidate and failed to cheat enough to overcome her deficiencies. They're desperately trying, after repeating the first half of the losing formula, not to repeat the second half of it.
FWIW I'm with Althouse. I have nothing to contribute and don't need the anxiety. Somehow the Republic will survive, no matter the outcome. We survived Obama, and Trump has already undone a lot of the harms that were inflicted during his terms.
Saying "fuck" repeatedly doesn't ground you more securely in fact. You just sound more overwrought and chaotic.
Thanks, Joan.
I hate the "and you, a law prof" garbage.
Althouse is writing what she thinks and our disagreements are not amplified because of her past employment.
Blogger Joan said...
"Somehow the Republic will survive, no matter the outcome. We survived Obama, and Trump has already undone a lot of the harms that were inflicted during his terms."
Don't you believe it. From now on, every election is for all the marbles.
Joan,
The country survived Civil War I.
That is not a good argument for standing by idly as Civil War II becomes a possibility.
Institutional damage, like that done to the FBI, CIA, IRS, and etc. has not been undone by Trump.
We would fool ourselves to believe otherwise.
(eaglebeak)
It's not so much about knowing the facts as knowing the law. The law says there is a time limit, a time to stop finding new ballots in the back of pickup trucks.
Joan said..
“FWIW I'm with Althouse. I have nothing to contribute and don't need the anxiety. Somehow the Republic will survive, no matter the outcome. We survived Obama, and Trump has already undone a lot of the harms that were inflicted during his terms.“
A representative republic would survive obvious voter fraud how?
there is a time limit, a time to stop finding new ballots in the back of pickup trucks.
To everything - turn, turn, turn
There is a season - turn, turn, turn
And a time to every purpose under heaven
A time to be born, a time to die
A time to plant, a time to reap
A time to kill, a time to heal
A time to laugh, a time to weep
To everything - turn, turn, turn
There is a season - turn, turn, turn
And a time to every purpose under heaven
A time to build up, a time to break down
A time to dance, a time to mourn
A time to cast away stones
A time to gather stones together
To everything - turn, turn, turn
There is a season - turn, turn, turn
And a time to every purpose under heaven
A time of love, a time of hate
A time of war, a time of peace
A time you may embrace
A time to refrain from embracing
To everything - turn, turn, turn
There is a season - turn, turn, turn
And a time to every purpose under heaven
A time to gain, a time to lose
A time to rend, a time to sew
A time for love, a time for hate
A time for peace, I swear it's not too late!
Molly said...
"It's not so much about knowing the facts as knowing the law."
They know the law. They're lawyers. And they fully intend to break those laws, as many as need be. Then they'll rewrite them, so they never need to break them again. They regard any election they don't win as illegitimate.
I tend to agree with AA on all the election scare stories. The only to combat such, is go out and vote. This election still had less than a 50% vote total. Therefore, we get the radicals and liars in office.
Blogger Achilles said..."It doesn’t help you that Synema, a total piece of shit who obviously hates our country, is placed in the senate over a veteran with voter fraud."
Sorry my friend, McSally ran a horrible campaign, Bush and Romney campaigned for her. Plus she never asked Trump to come campaign with her, despite that Trump supported her.
Sinema ran a good campaign, she actually tacked (became a centrist) to the center and it seemed to have paid off for her.
Florida law enforcement cites zero reports of voter fraud as of this AM.
Nothing but typical WPP sore-loser bellyaching.
Meanwhile, our President makes a special trip to Europe to piss on the graves of WWI war dead.
So sad.
Ann Althouse said...
Saying "fuck" repeatedly doesn't ground you more securely in fact. You just sound more overwrought and chaotic.
I went back to look for someone who used the word fuck repeatedly.
Didn’t see it. I said for fucks sake once after you made one of your “I am just a helpless baby and I don’t have any power please don’t expect me to get involved statements” people here seem fond of making.
It would cost you people so much to confront your Democrat friends? To speak up? You don’t want to be anxious?
If the Democrats saw millions of people come out against their shenanigans and it cost them they would stop.
But if they think most of the country will stand aside they will continue.
They for some reason think you all will just stand aside.
How could they reach that conclusion?
hstad said...
Sorry my friend, McSally ran a horrible campaign, Bush and Romney campaigned for her. Plus she never asked Trump to come campaign with her, despite that Trump supported her.
That is an interesting argument in support of voter fraud.
No criminal voter fraud?
Well of course not.
That's why the Democrats changed votes while everybody who might complain were kept from inside the room.
No body, no crime.
So says everybody who hides the body well.
Agreed that the re-counts should be left alone...but I do want to say - as a Republican from a large family of (mostly) Republicans - that Republicans always seem very slow on the uptake with these things
It took FL Republicans two days to start to raise a fuss about vote counts in Broward County. Apparently the rule is that counties need to report the total votes within 30 minutes of the polls closing. Where was the GOP operative (or the Governor??) making sure this happened?
And GA...after more slow-walking, I started to wonder who the GA Secretary of State is, as that's the person I would expect to clamp down on "found" votes. Turns out the GA SoS is/was...the GOP candidate for Governor! He even resigned on election day to start transitioning to being governor! Hey, why not finish your "old" job first??
I wasn't aware Trump stole the election by counting thousands of found, unsecure provisional ballots.
And I usually stay on top of these things. Anybody got a link?
bbkingfish said...
Florida law enforcement cites zero reports of voter fraud as of this AM.
This is with video tapes of boxes of ballots being hauled in easily available and sworn statements that election officials were filling out ballots.
The deplorables half to be perpetually aggrieved in order to feel stability within their deep psychosis. It's the only way they can function without taking antidepressants
That's not Althouse's opinion, it's the opinion of the anti-Trumpers who have been saying it for 2 years.
Understood. And it's still bullshit.
It's not voter fraud. It's the creation of whole ballots by democratic officials under cover of darkness.
Achilles said...
"If the Democrats saw millions of people come out against their shenanigans and it cost them they would stop."
Not sure what you mean by "cost them". I don't think the Democrats are going to "stop", no matter what happens. They want power, not praise. But what are you suggesting? Armed struggle? With whom? They have their lawyers, and we have ours. We'll see what happens.
Except it's always the Dems who steal elections.
Isn't it amazing that these cloae races always tighten in only one direction.
and when a close race is won by the D- you never see R's come out to try to steal anything.
Comparing Broward to mysterious Russian interference is unfair to the Russians. They were smart enough to not get caught.
It's the only way they can function without taking antidepressants.
We aren't the ones who've been screaming at the sky for the last two years.
12:56 Psota - my thoughts exactly.
The GOP are asleep at the wheel. Way too trusting and forgetful how democratic operatives are desperate and will do anything. Including creating new democratic votes with no chain of custody.
If nobody is watching - why not?
"From now on, every election is for all the marbles."
No, from now on elections are meaningless. There's only one possible outcome to any election: the democrats gain power. By Any Means Necessary.
This doesn't help us have faith in the process when we know Broward officials deliberately contaminated some 180 ballots with 20 non invalid ones. What can you do there? Declare the whole lot void? Remove 20 at random? Nothing to be done but hope that enough mistakes and deliberate scale tipping don't change the election. Ask Norm Coleman how that went.
Non valid not non invalid.
I blame the biased media, we all know that Republicans couldn't get away with what the crooked Dems are doing.
You mean the media that meekly accepted their being kicked out of their role as observer?
I appreciate Althouse's position on this. I might have said the same if I were in her position.
I am very interested in the election processes myself, and I expect that sometime in the future, there will be a recount story that will present itself in a way that Althouse will feel comfortable in blogging it, and I hope that she will not feel constrained to avoid it having written what she did yesterday.
The Republican's (highly meritorious side of most election law debates has gotten so badly skewed in the direction of "more dumbed down" in the Age of Trump. Kris Kobach; Hans van Spakovsky; others in the Republican National Lawyers Association, which is very involved right now in Florida in particular.
But we continue to have bloviating non-experts like Trump and Rick Scott whining about "fraud" when the issues are in fact much more particular and nuanced albeit just as serious as a fraud would be if one occurred.
I've seen it myself on these comments pages in the past; Atlhouse commenters freaking out about dumbed-down stories in the alt-right media about the Detroit polling in 2016. I knew those stories better then the authors of the articles that alt-rightists were reading across the country.
There is a lot of good we Republicans can do in election law reform and enforcement. But the worst advocates are people like Donald Trump and Rick Scott.
Somehow the Republic will survive, no matter the outcome.
@Joan, you’re “bet your life” certain about that? I am a septuagenarian, and I have seen Nixon succeed LBJ and Reagan replace Carter. Somehow this feels different. Part of the difference is the sheer blatantcy of the effort. Chicago brags about voter fraud, but they make some effort to hide what they’re up to. Florida. Arizona, and now Georgia are right in our face about stealing the election. That’s new, and very disturbing. Almost as new is lefties telling us to ignore the evidence of our eyes and the clear it violations of law and just trust them. Not gonna happen, children.
Still on Florida elections but OT, I see that young Nikolas Cruz was allowed to register. Of.course a number of his former classmates at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School will never be able to vote. (Or perhaps they will, it being Browsrd County after all.)
Fraud however seems like a good word for contaminating valid ballots with known invalid ones and for filling out ballots to replace damaged ones without the required legal oversight. Maybe it wasn't. But I am human and pattern recognition is a skill of ours, so, I'm suspicious of Broward and think it is time for a thorough audit there.
Of course they're trying to steal the Election.
The Dems ALWAYS try to steal the election. They're ALWAYS mysteriously finding Dem votes in the trunk of a car, or taking days and days to count vote.
And amazingly, they always win!
The real question is why are the Republicans always so surprised and do NOTHING to stop voter fraud or keep the voting honest? Instead they won't support trump on citizenship in the Census, or purging the voter rolls of illegals and fraudsters, or do much of anything.
Maybe Florida should pass a law that no county can report results for statewide or national elections publicly until the state has received final tallies from everywhere.
I like this thinking.
"Democrats cannot steal an election if Republicans refuse to let them.
Do not worry. President Trump did not campaign his heart out in Florida just to watch Rick Scott and Ron DeSantis surrender.
The nation is watching Florida. It sees Brenda Snipes. That serves Republicans well. They will prevail because they have a leader."
https://donsurber.blogspot.com/2018/11/dont-freak-about-florida.html#more
The facts of 2016 are easy even with a very shallow understanding of our civic system.
Hillary got 4 million extra Californians to vote for her, than insisted that the 'nation' loved her and she should have won by popular vote. You know better and we know you know better. This isn't hard but it is...inconvenient for pro abortion extremists.
For a woman who celebrates the law and her intellectual achievements so much, you certainly flutter your hands a lot and say 'This is just so hard to understand'. How very Victorian.
It is 5 days after the election and Georgia, Arizona and Florida are still 'discovering' ballots and can't say how many they have left to count. Hmm. Yeah. That is a real head scratcher. Is it the Vote Pixies? Spontaneous generation of ballots? Global warming seems a popular explanation of everything bad, so maybe it's that.
This. Kavanaugh. Any time Democrats do illegal, immoral, or indefensible actions, you have this tendency to...defer comment. Not all the time but at these hard calls which strangely intersect at points when a Democrat loss would hamper the long term interests of pro abortion types.
Okay. Silence is also a Free Speech Right. But please don't think us idiots who don't notice this tactical deferral of comment.
The meme in 2016 regarding “stolen election” was Russian collusion , not voter fraud. This is different.
Having said that, your blog, your rules.
"You mean the media that meekly accepted their being kicked out of their role as observer?"
I don't think the media see its role as an observer but as an active participate, they want the Dems to win regardless.
Yeah, putting out a solicitation for people on Craigslist to come in and sign absentee ballots that were invalid because they lacked the required signature doesn't prove fraud, does it Chuckhole? Nor does ginning up 80,000 fake votes after -the fact. Republican are lucky to have a guy like you nuancing it out. We'd be luckier if you burst into flames, though.
We have a lot more invested in this than you do.
This is an excellent point.
If the Democrats take charge, Althouse can point to her Academic credentials, her pro abortion stance and 'I'm a GRRL' to be a Democrat Insider. If they take over the government, she will be Just Fine.
We will be first against the wall when the Dems start ignoring Rights, Elections and Civility.
So of course she isn't excited about all this. It isn't existential to HER.
Once again the Democrats are attempting to destroy the institutions on which the country is founded, all while accusing Republicans of doing same.
The republic will survive this because we have reached the point where the militant normals have had enough. It's like all the insanity after the election: "You want more Trump? This is how you get more Trump."
Voting reform is long overdue, and I believe it is on Trump's agenda. The nonsense this time around strengthens public support for it.
Our entire social fabric is unraveling because of many factors, not the least of which is the infiltration and subversion of the education system. But I think the biggest problem is that we have entire populations who were never forced to grow up. I reject your reality and substitute my own is no way to live. All this whining and crying and cheating is evidence that undermining the family is having more far-reaching and negative unintended consequences than progressives were willing to imagine.
When the deadline hits, the votes should stop being tallied. The amount of uncountable ballots should be made. Voters should take that into consideration for if they want to elect the same incompetent people to manage the next one.
I simply do not know the facts and don't think I can learn them, so I am declining to add noise to the noise.
*******************************
"noise to the noise" sums it up. I hate talking politics and current events - I only do so with my SO. We mostly agree but have significant areas where we don't. I am so weary of people that believe all of us spouting words and hot air actually DOES anything. I maintain that if the sheer volume of words being spewed about politics actually resulted in any positive tangible, we'd be living in paradise by now. The best people at work can do is "I know you don't like to talk politics but I just want to say this one thing about Trump..." In other words, they still maintain they can yap at me, but they don't expect a response. That, to them, is 'not talking politics.'
Hillary had the election bought and paid for. Trump stole it from the rightful owner.
That's why we have the Mueller Inquisition - to punish the winners and protect the losers.
I feel the same on a broader level. Substitute "recount stories" with "all political news stories" and that's where I am. I research enough to cast a responsible vote at various intervals, but that's it. When I stopped all ingestion of political news, I emerged from a fog of worry, dread, and anguish. And guess what: All that worry, dread, and anguish was uttlerly pointless. As in, literally, it had no point, other than clicks for the purveyors and entertainment (however masochistic) for me. When I decided to find my entertainment elsewhere -- in my job, my children, my home, my faith, novels, history, apolitical TV -- my entire life got better. I feel happier, I'm more grateful, I sleep better. I still check in with you, Althouse, a few times a week, but that's it. No more politics. A weight has been lifted and I've lightened my steps.
-- Jessica
Look at just these two law suits: https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/11/scott_wins_two_lawsuits_as_he_fights_a_blatant_attempt_by_dems_to_violate_the_law.html
I fail to see any innocent explanation for not following the law in these two cases. How many ballots are contaminated now and must be counted?
@Chuck, if you are paying attention to anything other than the plaintiffs is Rick Scott, you might note that the election officials in Broward (and I believe Palm Beach) counties were not only in clear violation of election law, but in violation of a court order. Ever hear of "res ipsa"?
Hillary got 4 million extra Californians to vote for her
Interesting facts about the California Vote in the presidential election.
Registered voters in California
Registered voters 18,055,783 48.8%
Democratic 7,932,373 43.9%
Republican 5,225,675 28.9%
D–R spread +2,706,698
D-R Ratio 1.52 to 1
Presidential Vote
Democratic Hillary Clinton 8,753,788 61.73%
Republican Donald Trump 4,483,810 31.62%
Independents total 943,997 6.65%
D–R spread +4,269,978
D-R Ratio 1.95 to 1
Democrats got 821,415 more votes than their registration. Republican got 741,865 less.
Because of the open primaries, there were precincts in California where republicans had no one to vote for, So they and republican leaning independents stayed home. They didn't expect to carry California for Trump, didn't have a senate candidate to vote for, and probably in some local elections didn't even have the dog catcher to vote for. I'll bet that no other state saw such a drop off of ratios between registered voters and votes cast. It is one of the reasons why Hillary's I-won-the-popular-vote means nothing.
"For fucks sake why did we ever defend this country."
I'm sure millions of war veterans are asking this question today, after our President made a special trip to Europe to piss on the graves of their fallen comrades, and to humbly receieve his latest orders from his boss. Very sad.
Professor, the answer is simple, the solution is a little more complicated you wont find on the times the post the journal or the new Yorker they are on the side of the thieves.
In Wisconsin they stole past the recount threshold knowing Milwaukee that isn't a surprise
Old Man Rick - Thanks for that.
Hillary will never be president. If she wanted to be Red Queen of California, the job is hers.
She's a walking breathing lie.
I don't see the need to insult our host, but the truth needs to be sought out and those who were party to the Rhodes road show wont be it:
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/11/ben_rhodes_now_looks_like_castros_biggest_dupe.html
Why it's SO important to vote in CA - even if you have nothing to vote for. At least show up and vote against.
In Fl - they are filling out ballots in the dead of night.
Democrats got 821,415 more votes than their registration. Republican got 741,865 less.
If you add the Republicans with the Democrats, it's still 4,897,735 independents. So she didn't exactly wow even California.
Yes, and I come from there, Broward is a prog redoubt
Perfect ! Ad for anti-depression medication pops up.
Blogger bbkingfish said...
Florida law enforcement cites zero reports of voter fraud as of this AM.
Nothing but typical WPP sore-loser bellyaching.
Every vote counted after the legal deadline is fraud.
As far as I know, Trump is the only U.S. President to spend $25 million to settle a law suit for FRAUD, mere weeks before taking the oath of office to boot.
Blogger Ann Althouse said...
"You are factly wrong."
Whatever that means. You're speaking about your own feelings. You are not a source of the facts.
We know that Broward and Palm Beach Counties have been the source of much election folly since at least 2000.
We know that Dr Snipes has been found to have illegally destroyed ballots in the past.
We know that the Broward County elections office has violated state and federal election law by failing to meet numerous deadlines.
We know that after every election heavily democrat voting precincts “find” boxes of ballots in old school cafeterias, employees’ personal vehicles, and other places.
I think we’re a bit past feelings at this point, Ann.
Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...
12:56 Psota - my thoughts exactly.
The GOP are asleep at the wheel. Way too trusting and forgetful how democratic operatives are desperate and will do anything. Including creating new democratic votes with no chain of custody.
If nobody is watching - why not?
IIRC, the supervisor of elections turned away the Republican observers.
I laugh when I see liberals talk about Trump 'obeying his Russian masters'. Trump obeys no one. Haven't you learned that yet?
Hillary losing to Trump = Trump stole it all with the help of Russia.
The hivemind beeleeeves!
Note that the "conservatives" posting hereon all call for sending the cops after the election fraudsters; not for "fighting fire with fire" and compete with the Democrats in the fraud game.
"Conservatives" in quotes because some are not all that conservative; they just still believe in "law and order" as an ideal.
If you are following the Florida recount- here is what to look for. They will do a machine recount, and that recount should result in the same overall tallies, give or take a few hundred votes. Any county that turns up with more than 1000 new ballots/vote from what was reported yesterday at noon is going to have some explaining to do, and that explanation had better be plausible and probable. If the machine count comes out as expected, then the manual count won't change the outcomes of the two big races, though the Democrats will try to toss ballots from Republican voters and count invalid ballots for the Democrats- but that process will be open to the public and won't really succeed, even with the full throated support of the media.
I don't think mathematically they can steal their way into Florida gov. and senate seat but the best part is Trump wouldn't leave it alone. At least he has the balls to continually bring it up and toss it in their face. Bring it.
Turn off the news.. it's depressing.
Hagar - cheaters are frauds.
Frauds are cheater. The left play that game. We do not. They know it and that's also a larger reason they think they can get away with it.
The only "law enforcement" I saw denying any wrongdoing was the Democrat State Attorney in Palm Beach. Not exactly non-partisan. Perhaps you have others? Seriously asking. Do you consider judges to be part of "law enforcement". Two separate judges have pointed out wrongdoings, one pointing out law breaking.
The Hostess can blog what she wants. If the "Trump stole the election" was her quoting the Libs, okay, but that was never the issue. It was alleged to be collusion. As my favorite living author, Jordan B. Peterson, has said: "Trump didn't win the election. Hillary lost it." It will be different in 2020.
THEOLDMAN
Watching The Last Movie Star, Burt Reynolds in his final role
"You're speaking about your own feelings."
You mean, like, saying you were "unimpressed"?
It's nice to have that luxury.
There is almost no doubt at all about what Broward and Palm Beach County officials were doing after Tuesday night- the only reason they wouldn't follow the total vote reporting requirements is that they didn't know how many ballots they were going create after Tuesday. That is why the law requires that declaration of the total number of voted ballots 30 minutes after the polls close- it prevents officials from ballot stuffing after the night's counting is finished. Those were busy little beavers Wednesday and Thursday, but they just couldn't fill out enough ballots to overcome even Scott's 50,000 vote lead before Rubio alerted the public to the effort on Friday.
(eaglebeak)
Jupiter said:
"Molly said...
" 'They know the law. They're lawyers. And they fully intend to break those laws, as many as need be. Then they'll rewrite them, so they never need to break them again. They regard any election they don't win as illegitimate'."
I agree, but I wasn't referring to the Dem lawyers mucking up Florida, I was referring to the comment by the lawyer whose blog this is, about knowing the facts.
The difference between Arizona and Florida is that the Arizona counties did declare their backlog early in the evening, but you had to be an election expert to know where to look for it- the databases I was looking at were the ones that RCP coordinated, and while I was looking at the totals, it appeared the count was finished and near 100% early Wednesday morning with nothing but straggling early votes and provisionals, but Maricopa and Pima Counties had, indeed, declared their total votes. The experts knew this and that is why McSally was never declared the winnner- they knew there was 600,000 ballots still to be counted.
Not jumping to conclusions is right. Holding fire is right. Ignoring though? Ah well, perhaps all you meant was you wouldn’t do an analysis until we know more. I usually get called names for recommending that.
The officials in Broward and Palm Beach might just take a flyer and stuff tens of thousands more illegal ballots into the machine recount figuring, "In for a penny, in for a pound," but that would be an admission of guilt in my opinion because there would be no plausible explanation for it.
Althouse,
I think your position is completely reasonable. You don't know all the facts, neither do I, and we have a lot of company.
Bob from Alhambra
“We aren't the ones who've been screaming at the sky for the last two years.”
Maybe all that screaming toward the heavens did some good, the blue wave hit and it hit hard, thank you God.
“For fucks sake why did we ever defend this country."
“I'm sure millions of war veterans are asking this question today, after our President made a special trip to Europe to piss on the graves of their fallen comrades, and to humbly receieve his latest orders from his boss. Very sad.”
I always knew these Trumpists were not patriots. Trump smiling so beautifully at Putin, what love he shows this man.
Althouse commenters outraged at her lack of outrage.
Too funny.
Inga: "I always knew these Trumpists were not patriots. Trump smiling so beautifully at Putin, what love he shows this man."
Trump will continue to receive the vast majority of votes from both active duty and reserve and retired military personnel.
We learned long ago who the patriots were. Quick hint: its not Team Bowe Bergdahl is a Hero.
LOL
Poor Inga - STILL butthurt over Corrupt Hillary's loss.
Arizona is not Florida. Let's start with that. In every Arizona election it takes weeks to count ballots:
...state law requires the envelope to be sealed and signed, and for elections officials to match each signature to the one on file with the voter’s registration before even opening the envelope. In this election, that’s about 1.7 million individual signatures that had to be confirmed, one-by-one. A total of about 2.3 million votes were cast in Arizona.
They thing that makes this election unique is that the closeness of the Sinema-McSally race means that the process has to grind through to completion before a winner can be declared.
Althouse said...”Those of you who are alarmed about "stealing" the election have a taste of how many anti-Trumpists have felt for 2 years. He "stole" the election.”
This equivalence is absurd. The only justification for the claim that Trump stole the election is the Russian collusion charge, for which there has been no evidence after two years of investigating. As opposed to Florida, where the court finds it necessary to order election officials to follow election law. Law designed specifically to prevent election fraud.
And with that, I am going to attempt to go back to ignoring this travesty, because I find is so depressing.
This current nuttery is just another example of conspiracy theorists running amok. Common sense and a firm footing in reality would tell you weirdos that if there was any truth to any voter fraud it would be found by the many many many people who are looking at these ballots very closely. No voter fraud suspected, except by the nutballs.
“STILL butthurt over Corrupt Hillary's loss.”
Um... no. Im thrilled that Democrats are so engaged and ready to use their votes to right the country after being upended by the Fraudster. Blue Wave 2020!
Yancey - that is exactly what they did. They committed vote fraud by creating new ballots.
LOL - a lecture from the gal in the pussy hat who actually knows that Trump is Putin's puppet.
For the record, it also looks like Arizona really isn't close. Sinema is going to have a comfortable win. It was just close for a particular snapshot in time of "early voters + the people who voted in person." Given the huge number of votes uncounted at the time, that snapshot should never have been considered accurate.
“And with that, I am going to attempt to go back to ignoring this travesty, because I find is so depressing.”
I recall many Trumpists here saying how the tears of the left made them happy. I won’t be so mean and say I’m tickled that you’re depressed.
Considering the democrat party is the party of corruption - that's what you support, Inga.
The GOP made much larger gains in the house when Obama was president.
Putin is still licking his wounds from Trumps policies and actions:
1) our forces in Syria whacking 300 russian mercenaries
2) Trump forcing NATO to increase their military spending and Force Readiness
3) Trump ramping up US defense spending
4) Trump forcing Merkel (one of many of Ingas declared new leaders of the free world who are in their way out!) to agree to increase US Natural Gas Exports which hits the Russians directly in their pocketbook
5) Trump squeezing the snot out of Putins/obamas/ingas Iranian pals
6) Trump pulls us out of the moronic INF Treaty that Putin was violating
7) Trump sending aggressive armaments to Russian border nations
So Inga, if Trump is doing Putins bidding, why does Putin want a stronger US & NATO, russian allies squeezed, russian troops whacked, russian gas exports hampered and russian neighbors armed?
LOL
What we are witnessing is what happens when lefty/LLR/marxist talking points collide with reality!
The best part of this is that on every single one of the above critical points of contentions, our lefties are in public agreement with Putins position.
Every single one.
Because of course they are.
Largely agree with Althouse and Joan but not entirely. Republicans are pointing TO specific incident(s) where they think they are being robbed while Democrats have spent these two years looking FOR specific incident(s) because they think they must have been robbed. Neither has been proven to be true so far which is a good reason why to not get overwrought about the recounts. I believe the most relevant word to be "incompetence". Hillary was an unimpressive senator and Secretary of state and a terrible candidate. The leaders of Palm Beach and Broward County elections can't meet the most basic laws governing their jobs.
”I recall many Trumpists here saying how the tears of the left made them happy. I won’t be so mean and say I’m tickled that you’re depressed.”
I never did, you just did, and that makes you an asshole.
The difference between Trump supporters ("Trumpist" is a slur) and Trump critics is Trump supporters have evidence for their claims of election stealing. Trump critics have dark fantasies.
“Trumpist" is a slur”...
Indeed it is.
I think many here are missing Althouse's point. It's not a partisan point nor is it a value judgment. It's an observation.
Another question for Inga: why does Putin want the US to be the worlds largest energy producer?
LOL
Especially considering the russians have long provided funding to US lefties to oppose fracking and other energy production initiatives?
I really enjoyed learning about Putin sponsorship of lefty rallies starring Michael Moore.
That was really fun.
I am 100% with Althouse on this. These stories are just worry-fodder. There is nothing I can do to change anything that is happening.
I am also on law professor hiatus since the Kavanaugh hearings, so I am glad that Althouse isn't hauling out any professorial pontifications. The vast majority of the legal professoriate lost me with their abandonment of professionalism, their desertion of fundamental legal precepts, their one-way skepticism, and their raw, transparent, partisan hackery. I don't want to hear from any of them for a while. The large testamentary gift I am making to my law school is hanging in the balance.
“Trump critics have dark fantasies.”
Sure, Mueller has been investigating “dark fantasies”.
Just gotta shake one’s head.
So, according to Inga Putin wants the US to extend its global economic and military lead over all other nations.
If that sounds strange to you, and it should, you'll have to take it up Inga!
LOL
Good luck with that!
The hoax putin-provided golden dossier conspiracy gal from WI would like to lecture us about conspiracies.
Discuss.
Althouse didn't say that Trump stole the election. I'm quite sure she doesn't think this. She's saying that's what many neverTrumpers think.
Maybe all that screaming toward the heavens did some good, the blue wave hit and it hit hard, thank you God.
Delusional.
If it was such a big win, why are you people still screaming?
Winners don't go around pissed off and angry after they've won. Yet, there you are.
“If it was such a big win, why are you people still screaming?”
Hahaha, that’s celebration you hear, dummy.
The screaming is coming from the nutballs, “They’re stealing the election and Althouse doesn’t care!!”
LOL
Blue Wave 2020!
Snort. You mean like when you flatly predicted you'd win the Senate after the Kavanaugh hearings?
Like when you predicted Nikki Haley is going to primary Trump in 2020 and win the nomination?
Arrogant, angry and clueless is no way to go through life, Ratched.
Althouse: “Those of you who are alarmed about "stealing" the election have a taste of how many anti-Trumpists have felt for 2 years. He "stole" the election.”
There is a difference between stealing an election using voter fraud and “stealing” an election by figuring out how the electoral college works. Isn’t there?
The problem with the R party is they continue to underestimate the desperation and treachery of the left. The left are modern commie-fascists. They feel they have a right to power. The left will steal it from you just as you are thinking the fight is over.
(eaglebeak)
Nutballs are great for Christmas treats. Especially the walnuts glazed with sugar.
"Althouse didn't say that Trump stole the election. I'm quite sure she doesn't think this. She's saying that's what many neverTrumpers think."
But they really don't. They never have. It's pure projection designed to hide their own complicity. And they do this because it always, always, always works. And how does it work? Read Althouse's post again.
Althouse can write about whatever she wants on her blog, but if elections become as fake as the news, we’re one step closer to actual civil war. Perhaps it can’t be avoided.
The Dems have always had trouble running straight elections. But to be fair, the GOP in Illinois has destroyed itself and offers no meaningful alternative. I am amused at my friends who think that the solution to our problems in Illinois is to give more power to the Democrats. I think they are amused that I think the solution to our problems is to elect more Republicans.
The way to prove election fraud is to accuse louder.
Or something.
Inga...Allie Oop said...
“Trump critics have dark fantasies.”
Sure, Mueller has been investigating “dark fantasies”.
You have no idea what Mueller is investigating. All you have is dark fantasies.
Roughcoat said...Althouse didn't say that Trump stole the election. I'm quite sure she doesn't think this. She's saying that's what many neverTrumpers think.
What she said was that thinking Trump stole the election in 2016 is equivalent to thinking the Dems are stealing Florida in 2018.
Most of us, with good reason, disagree.
Poor Rick Scott. He and the FL WPP worked for two years to wire this election, and now those evil Dems want to count all the votes. Poor, poor Rick Scott.
A thought on the Arizona count, since there there's no indication of fraud, let alone jaw-dropping incompetence.
In Arizona (and a number of other states), election rules make it a certainty that close elections will not be decided on election night.
If you prepare your mind for that fact, there is nothing about a week-long recount that should be upsetting.
And yet it is upsetting to many people. Uncertainty after the election is much more upsetting than uncertainty before. But why?
The big reason has to be the lack of finality. The suspense of the political race is supposed to end on election night and it does not. Attached to this is the fact that only very close races will enter this period of limbo. The incremental tallies that come from recounts are almost malevolently designed to raise and crush hopes.
We're in a weird period of our election history. It should be dead simple to have election tallies instantly, if everyone voted live using electronic or paper-scan machines. At the same time, almost all states have procedures for mail-in and provisional ballots that are almost certainly guaranteed not to be tallied instantly. These two facts are moving in opposite directions.
From the previous post, and I think appropriate to this subject.
“We both were ready to die,” Richard said, “but we were not going to die without putting up a fight.”
Meade: "And that is exactly what winners do."
Althouse wants to stay in the car.
Althouse commenters outraged at her lack of outrage.
Too funny.
Posted by the person who posted so many "you will regret not posting mean things about Trump" posts that Althouse had to delete them and threaten to block her.
Now THAT'S too funny!
who mandated these mail in ballot procedures, it's as a result of a bill, Clinton signed around 1994, who was there at the signing ceremony, well a fellow named Richard cloward, he has long passed, but his wife frances fox piven, disciples of saul Alinsky, remember him who devised strategies of how to transform this country, fundamentally, remember who was also a fan of his, none other than barack Obama,
If you prepare your mind for that fact, there is nothing about a week-long recount that should be upsetting.
I think people can deal with a recount that takes some extra time to ensure it's done properly.
I don't think people can deal with states that can count all the votes on Election Day but can't get a recount done 48 hours later.
If the multi-day delays are reasonable, they can be explained to the voters rather than just hiding behind closed doors saying, "trust us".
The nation's supply of trust went out the window as we watched the hanging chads and dueling recount requests in 2000. What we learned was the the entire state's votes changed very little and just as much in the Republican's favor, when the recount was done properly.
According to the Wall Street Journal - Hillary is running again.
Perhaps Trump's new AG will finally go after her for her Private Server?
The screaming is coming from the nutballs, “They’re stealing the election and Althouse doesn’t care!!”
Which has been you for the last two years.
Perhaps we can discuss, as a nation - all of Bill Clinton sexual abuse scandals - over and over. For the good of the democrat party.
Perhaps Trump's new AG will finally go after her for her Private Server?
And Comey for his, for good measure.
Trump, you see, doesn't need anything from the internet but Twitter.
Porn comes to him.
She's going to be a firebrand! Universal health care!
(Institutionalized corruption. Mega money for herself and her donors.)
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that bad men do nothing.
Or do nothing but watch "Monk", a series about a detective with serious, debilitating psychological problems which interfere with every aspect of his life. It's pretty funny sometimes.
yes, that was a good series,
https://legalinsurrection.com/2018/11/israeli-commandos-kill-hamas-tunnel-chief-in-gaza/
now, as for Arizona, that farce has gone beyond ridiculous,
Henry said...”there is nothing about a week-long recount that should be upsetting.”
That’s not the “upsetting” part. I believe that NO totals should be made public until the counting is completed. It would be harder to cheat if the cheaters didn’t know what number they needed to produce.
Biggest mistake Trump made was letting Hillary off the hook after the election.
Laws are for the little people.** If Trump is a champion for the little guy, that was a poor way to show it.
I'm with Jessica.
When the going gets hard....
Big Mike said...
@Chuck, if you are paying attention to anything other than the plaintiffs is Rick Scott, you might note that the election officials in Broward (and I believe Palm Beach) counties were not only in clear violation of election law, but in violation of a court order. Ever hear of "res ipsa"?
I am familiar with the term, and as an experienced litigator, I am aware of how infrequently "res ipsa loquitur" arises in real, everyday litigation.
Has there been a res ipsa question in any of the ongoing Florida litigation? Or were you just throwing out the first legalism that popped into your head while typing?
I'd be interested if there really were such a question, so please give me a link to the place where it presented itself in any of the pleadings or decisions so far.
Kamala and Booker are horrible, but at least they are not corrupt.
I'm on constant corruption patrol. When the left finally wise up and rid themselves of the Clinton Crime Family - I will shut up.
Perhaps Beto will run? He's horrible, but not corrupt. Young and inviting rock star and all that.
This idea that you can vote early or by mail is bad (with some exceptions for verified mandatory absences). Things change too fast to vote early and you ought to have to stand in the rain and vote if you care enough to do so.
The idea that the people counting the votes get to keep counting, during the dead of night, unsupervised, knowing that what the number it is they need to play catch-up for their party - should be criminal.
"Somehow the Republic will survive, no matter the outcome."
Well, like all other political entities, it will survive until it doesn't. As Ben Franklin said, it's not a guarantee.
Hillary and her handlers are trying to vilify the competition early.
A classic Clinton tactic.
Ann, I am surprised that you find no axis along which you can write. The most upsetting, versus mourning a loss of your side, is that the “found” ballots. All you did was sort of do a moral equivalency between obvious idiocy of Trump stealing election, NOT — given the rules, to putative stealing of election by magical votes. Two things to wonder — is appearance of magical votes par for the course, independent of the margin/ Are magical votes overwhelmingly the domain of the perennially angry?
Why do missing votes only show up in close races where it's the Democrat that needs them, and then mysteriously overrepresent Democrat votes. If votes were legitimately lost and then found occasionally, it would happen in all kinds of races, close or not, and they would not always help the Democrats.
Qwinn said...
"Althouse didn't say that Trump stole the election. I'm quite sure she doesn't think this. She's saying that's what many neverTrumpers think."
But they really don't. They never have. It's pure projection designed to hide their own complicity. And they do this because it always, always, always works. And how does it work? Read Althouse's post again.
11/11/18, 4:20 PM
Yes, this, thank you. They don't believe, at least the Inner Party certainly don't believe, their own BS. Boob bait for the Outer Party suckers.
GOP certainly should have tiger teams of election lawyers on hot standby, probably at all times, certainly at election time! How has this lesson not been learned! And to have the nearest, friendliest judges on speed-dial. Can't anyone play this game?
Chuck, as a putative professional in this very sector, have you NOTHING to contribute except how much you hate President Trump?
New AG should re-open Hillary-gate.
Judicial Watch:
"Attorney General Jeff Sessions has resigned, bringing an end to his controversial tenure as the nation’s top law enforcement officer. He advanced some significant policy advances for the rule of law, but made a terrible mistake in recusing himself needlessly from the so-called Russia investigation. This led to the abusive, unconstitutional Mueller special counsel investigation of President Trump. Frankly, President Trump has been terribly victimized by Justice Department and FBI corruption.
And disappointingly, the Justice Department under AG Sessions was a black hole in terms of transparency. It covered up institutional misconduct and, unbelievably, went out of its way to defend misconduct by Hillary Clinton and other Obama administration officials.
I hope transparency and rooting out corruption and abuse becomes the focus of any new attorney general.
Now that President Trump has removed AG Sessions and appointed Matthew Whitaker as acting attorney general, the new DOJ leadership should end the abusive Mueller investigation and finally do a serious prosecution of Clinton’s email crimes and other misconduct.
In the meantime, your Judicial Watch will continue its independent oversight of the Justice Department through its myriad Freedom of Information Act lawsuits on Deep State abuses.
I have used the minefield metaphor which came to be when Comey was removed, now the tripwire was Rosenstein who did the deed protects the conspirators, putting Whittaker in is going around the tripwire.
Previously Sally Yates had been set up as a tripwire, she couldn't be replaced until sessions was confirmed and he couldn't be confirmed until all the other cabinet members were.
@Chuck, I got acquainted with legalisms working on large database projects in the DOJ. But if anything is self-evident it has to be the blatant disregard for the law down in Broward and Palm Beach.
bagoh20 said...
Why do missing votes only show up in close races where it's the Democrat that needs them, and then mysteriously overrepresent Democrat votes. If votes were legitimately lost and then found occasionally, it would happen in all kinds of races, close or not, and they would not always help the Democrats
******************
THIS, to the nth!
Birkel said...
I hate the "and you, a law prof" garbage.
Althouse is writing what she thinks and our disagreements are not amplified because of her past employment.
*********************
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with what being a "former law prof" implies, in terms of her application of legal reasoning. She claimed, without evidence, that she knew how Democrat voters "felt".
Baloney.
In this case, all she did was basically say, "Fuck you".
If Althouse can point to ANY example of Republicans attempting to thwart election outcomes, let her do so....right here.
Right now.
Bad Lieutenant said...
...
Chuck, as a putative professional in this very sector, have you NOTHING to contribute except how much you hate President Trump?
Very honestly, I am just like Atlhouse in this sense. I have been very busy this weekend; I have not had time to familiarize myself with all of the relevant details, and the details in this case are very dense, and very important, and elections law is something that is very different from state to state. I will never pretend to be expert in Florida election law, unlike a lot of folks on CNN, Fox and on the blogs.
I've spoken up on these comments pages when I felt I knew better, and differently, from what people here were writing about elections in Madison (where I know a little), and Columbus, Ohio (where I know just a bit more), and Michigan (where I know a lot more). Florida not as much.
My mother just reminded me that Grandpa voted Republican his entire life. She has done the same.
He passed away in 1980 and has voted straight Democrat party since.
She is 84 and expects to be voting Democrat within the next 10 years.
Big Mike: "@Chuck, I got acquainted with legalisms working on large database projects in the DOJ. But if anything is self-evident it has to be the blatant disregard for the law down in Broward and Palm Beach."
I find it quite amusing that any reader of this blog would ever expect LLR Chuck to offer up criticisms of democrat partisans, who previously had been cited for violating election laws, while they are once again in the middle of violating election laws.
Our #StrongDemDefender is always prepared to obfuscate and minimize and deflect in his operational alignment and service to Team Left.
But only always.
I hate hypocrisy and this stealing of elections, after all the bs about Russia, makes me vote straight Republican and even more pro Trump.
At least he fights.
I’m surprised how late to the game the republicans have been on the voter fraud issue. They are so afraid of being called racists.
I wish Hans von Spakovsky and J Christian Adams had 10x the resource allocation from the gop. They seem to be operating on a very thin shoe string.
Attorney General Jeff Sessions has resigned, bringing an end to his controversial tenure as the nation’s top law enforcement officer known as the Reign of Slumber
Alegedly some dems in illinois have been buying votes with crack. But I repeat myself.
I too am with Jessica
Did Jessica pull her comment? I can't find it.
It's up there! :) (I signed my name at the end of the comment, because I was on a different computer and didn't feel like going through all the hassle of signing out of and into my account.)
Honored to be quoted!
America is institutionalized conflict. We move from one venue — say, trade — to another — election fraud — with ease. And that’s a good thing. No side ever wins completely. But our attention can only be on one tug-of-War at a time. It’s like we’re at Wimbledon... there’s many side courts but only one Centre Court.
Most people would like a clear winner once in a while but it never happens politically, culturally, or philosophically. And that is what makes America great.
Jessica--Thanks for pointing it out. In fact, thanks for what you said.
I like the guy who writes under the name "Snake Plissken" that according to legend once a year the Recount Fairy finds and brings "lost" votes to needy Democrats.
Juba!
Ok, just kidding. Get as far as Kenya and stop there.
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