"In blog posts and viral videos, its adherents extoll the benefits of birthing at home or even in the wild. There are entire podcasts dedicated to freebirthing, with women discussing the 'ecstatic' experience of giving birth in a snowed-in yurt or on a remote Hawaiian island... [T]he Free Birth Society was the largest unassisted-birth page on Facebook before it closed down.... Members rejoiced in each other’s pregnancies, answered each other’s questions, and commiserated over those who didn’t understand their choice. They also subscribed to a strict code of conduct: Comments encouraging other members to seek treatment, or questioning a women’s autonomy in any way, would quickly be deleted... A group of concerned outsiders, worried the freebirthers were being reckless, had set up fake 'sock puppet' accounts to gain entry to the private group and monitor its members. The interlopers saw themselves as sentries, keeping watch over alternative-lifestyle practitioners they believed were putting their babies in harm’s way. The sock puppets took screenshots of [posts by 'Lisa,' a woman who was in labor for 6 days] and posted them in their own groups, sparking instant outcry from their followers.... Still other commenters reached out to Lisa directly.... 'What should have been a time of grieving and mourning alone with my family was now a time of defending myself from evil people and their horrible words,' Lisa told The Daily Beast in an email.... The lurkers brought her posts to bloggers in the pro-science community like Katie Paulson, a writer for faith-centered website Patheos. Paulson turned around nine blog posts about the incident in the span of two weeks, with headlines like, 'Mother Decides to have an Unassisted Childbirth and Kills Her Baby.'"
From "She Wanted a ‘Freebirth’ at Home. When the Baby Died, the Attacks Began/The stillbirth of Journey Moon prompted sympathy—and a backlash" (Daily Beast).
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What's more ludicrous, having a baby at home (as women have done for 99.999 percent of human history) or having a baby cut out of you at a hospital (as a third of women giving birth in America now do)?
This is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard of. Things can go bad very, very fast during childbirth and mother and child need a real doctor and a hospital when things go south. Since I worked at a law firm that did med mal defense, I knew of plenty of “bad baby” cases where doctors got sued despite their best efforts and compliance with the standard of care.
And I’d bet there is a correlation between this foolishness and belief in the “science” of the global warming scam.
I really don't want to comment on any of the horrible things in this story. I will say something that won't be a good look for me.
Any particular medical advance you want to name was unavailable for 99.999 percent of human history.
I'll never have a baby, but I'm glad to have a steel plate in my foot rather than no foot, and hernia surgery rather than a "truss".
Infant mortality was not great for 99.999 percent of human history..
@Earnest Prole:
What's more ludicrous, having a baby at home (as women have done for 99.999 percent of human history)...
See the history of infant mortality.
I do want to assure women considering this: childbirth in a hospital is also an ecstatic experience. If this is a baby you love, you will be ecstatic however it is born once it takes its first breath.
"See the history of infant mortality."
Not to mention the history of maternal mortality.
Somebody put out the rhhardin signal
Earnest Prole said...
What's more ludicrous, having a baby at home (as women have done for 99.999 percent of human history) or having a baby cut out of you at a hospital (as a third of women giving birth in America now do)?
11/4/18, 1:07 PM
What's more ludicrous, walking/swimming/rowing from LaGuardia to midtown Manhattan, as people have done for 99.999% of human history, or calling an Uber?
People, who think giving birth ought to be done without medical assistance or that vaccines are something to do without, can save us both time by not trying to convince me how I should vote.
9 posts of I told you so is excessive, especially so soon after. The science-based people lay off the transgendered idiocy (and IQ and all the other shit that debunks their social justice nonsense). They should have just laid off this.
People don’t pick on Christian Scientists either. There’s nothing special about faith-based idiocy.
This seems to be in line with what you might call naturaphilia. You see it often in the environmental movement and among the whole organic/farm to table/slow food movement, natural home remedies, the chasing of fad cure alls like apple cider vinegar (with mother!) or any of the much vaunted "super foods." It also tends to include a pollyanish, new agey view of nature. In my perspective, it ignores a couple of salient facts: (1) how unbelievably brutal and cruel nature is, and (2) the history of human progress is pretty much the history of the effort to protect ourselves from nature.
Jail.
For Ernest Prole I mean. Criminal abuse of statistics.
The history of maternal mortality
Pro woman.
Has anyone heard from Michael K?
This seems like thread that he would definitely comment on.
I have not seen any comments from him in the past few days.
There are also permanent disabilities preventable by having interventional medical care at hand.
chasing of fad cure alls like apple cider vinegar
A friend suggested it for digestion issues.
It did not help, probably because it created far greater problems with acid indigestion. It was really rough.
it ignores a couple of salient facts: (1) how unbelievably brutal and cruel nature is, and (2) the history of human progress is pretty much the history of the effort to protect ourselves from nature.
I reminded of a post from a few months ago concerning people buying and drinking "natural" water. That is, water straight from a stream that had not been treated in any way for bacterial or chemical contamination. Cause NATURE!
As one old doctor said, there is no such thing as the good old days before antibiotics.
"Kills her baby"? To be sure, the daffy Lisa refers to the stillbirth as a baby, but haven't we learned by now that while in utero, it's a fetus? It doesn't become a baby until it's born alive. Keeping a watch over this kind of anti-abortion terminology is a full-time job.
It does seem that there's a distinction to be drawn between those who choose to give birth at home, where hospitals are available if needed to assist in the birth or with the neonate, and those who choose to give birth in remote locations. The former seems like a foolish retrograde choice, but not totally nuts, whereas the latter is totally irresponsible.
For the cognitively and statistically impaired, the point is that there are exponentially more elective than medically required cesareans, and that home births and unnecessary cesareans are both dumb.
"At the heart of liberty is the right to define one's own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life."
These antichoice bigots must be made to pay a lesson. Punch a bigot!
MayBee said “if it is a baby you love, you will be ecstatic when it takes it’s first breath.”
I’ve never understood these people who want to have childbirth be some sort of “experience” or something. You’re having a baby; that’s incredibly awesome. Isn’t that enough for you?
EP,
You might have framed your initial post with more indication what you were driving at.
However, given your more clearly stated comparison, it still comes down to mortality rates consideration as to which issue is "more ludicrous".
Earnest Prole:
For the cognitively and statistically impaired, the point is that there are exponentially more elective than medically required cesareans, and that home births and unnecessary cesareans are both dumb.
The argument over unnecessary cesarean sections is worth having, but it has nothing to do with what "women have done for 99.999 percent of human history."
Relationship Between Labor and Delivery Unit Management Practices and Maternal Outcomes published in Obstetrics & Gynecology covers the issue quite well and suggests some non-obvious explanations.
Earnest Prole said...
For the cognitively and statistically impaired, the point is that there are exponentially more elective than medically required cesareans, and that home births and unnecessary cesareans are both dumb.
The call all elective surgeries 'elective' for a reason.
You go ahead and rail against people making their own decisions about their own bodies. I'm not a big fan of tattoos, but if my wife showed up with an angel somewhere on her body, I wouldn't loose any sleep, and tell her only that it looked great and turned me on.
But putting a child at risk because you can't think your way past your emotions, allows me to point out the errors of their ways
In short, your attempt at equating, forgoing a Dr assisted Birth, with a Cesarean is not even close.
I've had 4 home births with certified midwives in attendance. I could hijack the entire thread advocating for this, but I won't.
I also had my husband present at every birth and couldn't have braved it without him. I'm not clicking thru, but the article, I'm guessing, gives little attention to the fathers.
@ Kate - "Splooge stooges", we call them here.
You can compensate for losses by getting pregnant more often.
Over to you, TCE.
This is more stupid New Age shit.
Freebirth. Lynryd Skynyrd.
Kate, "I've had 4 home births with certified midwives in attendance. I could hijack the entire thread advocating for this, but I won't."
You were extremely lucky. Certified midwife? Certified by who and for what? How long was the training? Nothing replaces the American system for training doctors. Four tough years of pre-med, followed by four brutally difficult years of medical school and then an OB-GYNY residency at a teaching hospital. I don't know how long that residency is these days but probably four years. Fetal heart monitors and similar gadgets are also quite handy.
If you saw the files on the "bad baby" cases that I did, you never would have gone with a mid-wife.
Real science is valuable and life saving.
I have not seen any comments from [Michael K.] in the past few days.
It's been quite nice; I'm hoping he's dead.
fad cure alls like apple cider vinegar
My Lpog's 40-something and normally rational son didn't seem to appreciate me calling that stuff a placebo.
Kate, I don't know your situations. But you have made you decisions.
An old mentor in business told me once, that the most impossible thing to accomplish, was convincing someone that has done something wrong multiple times,and got away with it, that there is a better way.
To us. We just made a risk benefit analysis. A baby with complications due to delivery problems, or death, vs staying home and feelz.
The Dr, attendings, and nurses, at the delivery were like old friends and enhanced our experience. The Nursery providers, likewise. The post natal care for the first 12 to 24 hours relieved any stress.
Sounds like you're happy, good for you. You rolled the dice and avoided craps. Don't confuse beating the house odds with knowing what your doing.
Let's all agree we are pleased for Kate that she and her babies were healthy.
A significant number of people will not be so fortunate and it will cost lives.
A lifestyle choice? At what point in the "birthing" process does the woman and her husband become responsible for the well-being of the child?
If you're a modern progressive, of course, it's just a lump of tissue until it pops out of the birth canal. It's an "it," abortable at any time prior to its first breath. This modern ethical sensibility is reflected in the article, which is why sneer quotes are around the word "misguided" as used by the pseudonomious mother's critics. The woman's choices are absolutely paramount, even over any life in her care.
It makes my skin crawl.
"You were extremely lucky."
I was healthy and genetically disposed to have easy births. I had, as I mentioned, an attendant husband. The birthing process, while physically difficult, is not a mystery. Mother and baby are constantly monitored; any anomaly and the midwife calls an ambulance.
Fernandistein said...
I have not seen any comments from [Michael K.] in the past few days.
"It's been quite nice; I'm hoping he's dead."
You seem nice.
For progressives, children aren't born -- fetal tissue is curated.
One of the annoying things about that article is that it perpetuates the myth that the US's infant mortality rates are below those of other developed nations, when that's not an accurate picture. As usual when making comparisons, it's helpful if you're talking about the same things. In the US, any live birth, no matter how premature, is counted as an "infant." Many very premature babies die. In other countries, such babies are not counted in the statistic, and that skews the comparison.
Why American infant mortality rates are so high
I recommend "Call the Midwife", an excellent BBC series, for a look at the creeping medicalization of birth over the last few decades of the of the 20th century. Most healthy women don't require medical intervention during birth, but that's not the same thing as saying that it's never necessary. Even when I had my children around twenty years ago, I had a "birth plan" which was honored, and the Arizona 'burbs aren't known as a pioneering medical community. Has the OB community been going backwards all this time?
Freebirthers see childbirth as a miracle, not a medical emergency. To them, labor does not involve contractions but “waves” or “surges,” and doctors don’t deliver babies—women give birth to them.
My firstborn was large and mal-positioned. He wasn’t breech, but neither was he head down. Without the ob-gyn and a hospital OR to do a C-sec I’m sure he’d be dead, and possibly her, too. Yes, childbirth is natural, and yes, the mother usually does all the work. But when things go bad, you need the resources of a hospital and a good doctor.
Mother and baby are constantly monitored; any anomaly and the midwife calls an ambulance.
Our daughter literally lives across the street from the local hospital. They decided to drive the 40 minutes to the University of Iowa Hospitals. Better to grab hold of that life raft, than tread water at the local hospital that had no neo natal unit.(she too, had no genetic markers for birth difficulties) Again, its a raw risk benefit analysis.
"For the cognitively and statistically impaired, the point is that there are exponentially more elective than medically required cesareans, and that home births and unnecessary cesareans are both dumb."
Lisa's baby, stillborn after 6 days of labor, weighed 8 lbs 13 oz. Does that statistic mean anything to you?
I wanted a "natural" birth but my situation became an emergency situation in the blink of an eye. My daughter was trying to be born with the cord wrapped around her neck. She had no heartbeat or respiration. The doctors and nurses took her to the NICU and saved her. Today she is an amazing woman. If I had tried a home birth "naturally" she would be dead and I would probably have died too. This is why we have all the medical wonders. To be used to save lives. These women don't care about their unborn babies, just how they look to other progressive morons.
Lisa's baby, stillborn after 6 days of labor, weighed 8 lbs 13 oz. Does that statistic mean anything to you?
Um, no. If you’re trying to imply that’s a big baby, IIRC (it’s been 35+ years) the smallest and most petite woman in our Lamaze classes gave birth to a ten pounder without a C-sec.
I do wonder about the husband. In his shoes, somewhere during the 2nd day of labor I would have called for an ambulance. Playing along with her cost him a child, could have cost him his wife. Yeah, she would have been mad at him. At least she would have been alive to be mad at him.
My daughter was born with a face presentation and a nucal cord. If we had not been in the hospital, she, and quite possibly my wife, would be dead. High forceps were required and she was looking quite bluish at first. (No harm done in the end, for which all concerned are grateful.)
Those barbecue tongs ain't gonna save it for you, hoss.
The road to hell is paved with "lifestyle choices". Ye gods.
You might have framed your initial post with more indication what you were driving at.
Fair enough. To cite another ironic bit of complexity, the vast majority of childbirth mortality throughout history was due to infection, but today a woman is more likely to catch a deadly infection at a hospital than at home. But of course that’s not to say home birth is safer than hospital birth.
I think it would be neat-o to rip Earnest Prole from just past his butt hole, all the way up the front to his johnson and then ask him about statistics regarding cesarians (sic) and episiotomies.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Lisa's baby, stillborn after 6 days of labor, weighed 8 lbs 13 oz. Does that statistic mean anything to you?
Yes. It means Charles Darwin was a visionary when he founded the Darwin Awards.
During my first pregnancy, my husband and I went to the hospital's childbirth class. At one point, we were asked to imagine the perfect setting for giving birth, "Perhaps you imagine a very homey place. Maybe there are candles around or soft music." I said I imagined a perfectly sterile room containing a gurney surrounded by ten specialists.
"Mother and baby are constantly monitored; any anomaly and the midwife calls an ambulance."
Which is consonant with what all the smart (about this subject) people above are saying: it is a calculated risk, with the mitigation being to end up at the lower risk location, albeit with some, possibly critical, time delay.
Why take the risk, whatever the calculation? For some benefit, one would think. And, in this case, the only possibly proven benefit is the short term one to the mother (and perhaps father), for having a more familiar, pleasant and perhaps less stressful environment for the birth. There is 0 evidence that this benefit redounds one iota to the infant. I repeat, zero, nil nada. The infant gets all risk and no benefit. The mother gets lot of risk and some benefit, if that is their proclivity.
This is not smart. Like many dumb thing, it should not be illegal, but it is not smart.
I thought there was uncertainty as to when the baby would actually be delivered, which would make planning "free births" rather difficult.
But maybe I watched too many Dick Van Dyke episodes.
I don't know nothin' about birthin' no babies. As I told my wife.
This post is another aspect of modern life that the Left has totally screwed up. What good has today's Left done?
Civil rights are fixed, same sex marriage is legal and our environment is crystal clean. But the Left can't declare victory. It has to invent new problems to get them elected to office. That's why we have this new transgender issue. It is what drives the global warming nuts. Lots of people involved in global warming. And, my new personal favorite, the Shooting War between Men and Woman. The Left is insane.
I would hope that all sane and decent people would punish the Dems at the polls on Tuesday based upon that Kavanaugh disgrace. I skimmed the Committee report and it is very damning. Katz and the other lawyers are in big trouble. People should be indicted. But I was surprised not to see anything in the report on the Two Front Doors lie. CBF was a big party animal at UNC. She flew in tiny prop planes in Hawaii to go surfing. What a liar. And two unnamed men came out and wrote that they consensually made out with CBF in high school and something like what she described happened in the make out sessions.
Organic babies from conception to birth.
That said, the issue is risk management, for the life of the mother and her baby.
But I was surprised not to see anything in the report on the Two Front Doors lie.
Republicans have wisely held back from going after CBF because they will be pilloried as blaming the "victim" by the MSM.
I hope they investigate her after the midterms. She obviously concocted this whole thing to derail Kavanaugh, starting from her scrubbed internet presence and ending with her obvious lies with a shaky little girl voice and extremely selective memory.
She should be in jail.
If this woman was at all educated she would have known that most anything over 24 hours of laboring is generally not good for the baby. She was more involved with her own "feelings" than she was her concerns for her baby. But, we all know, in so many ways "feelings" are more important than any other factor for this generation.
Was seeing my partner’s kids, their spouses, and two of the grandkids yesterday. Son in law had bought her Polaris, and hauled it down to AZ behind my Tahoe (that he wants to buy from me next). Her son, his wife, and their two kids are building a house east of Tucson right next to Saguaro National Park. So we were all visiting there this weekend (with the Polaris). This subject came up last night. The daughter in law had apparently been delivered (nearing 40 years ago) by an uncertified midwife they all know. So, she naturally wanted to follow suit. My partner reminded her son that he was probably only alive because she had delivered him in probably the best maternity hospital in NV at the time. As was, he spent his first two week in the infant ICU there. It was a fight, but he prevailed, and their two kids were delivered in a good hospital. And, as it turned out, it was a fortuitous decision - otherwise that would have possibly been her last delivery too. Decently likely, the complications would have killed both her and her first kid, if they had tried the home delivery that she had wanted. Instead, the eight of us spent yesterday four wheeling right by that Park. Both of their kids play two instruments extremely well, and are otherwise excelling in school, as they head towards high school. (I should add that this was our kitten’s first social engagement, and he didn’t do well with 6 adults inbibing adult beverages. Too load. The two kids took over parenting duties, and they were able to calm him down from his nervous breakdown).
My story isn’t quite as graphic, but my kid when into distress during delivery. This was detected by a fetal monitor, interpreted by a skilled Ob/Gyn, who put O2 on the mother, and the next set of contractions were fine. Otherwise, she (the Ob/Gyn) was going to do a C-Section. We think that that fetal distress may have been the cause of my kid voiding their bowels, then inhaling the results. It was actually pretty amazing after that. After the head came out, she announced, in a quiet clinical voice, to her attending nurse, “we have Meconium“. The next set of contractions, and the kid was out. In that 5 minutes, they had opened up the back of the birthing room, and they had two Pediatricians and a nurse ready. Two days on O2 in the infant ICU, and we went home. The good news was that those two days, thanks to the vagaries of insurance, caused us to go from owing maybe $2k to being owed $2k. Even better, 22 years later, the kid graduated Summa cum Laude, with honors in physics and math, and 5 years after that, they were awarded a STEM PhD. The difference here is that with a home birth, my kid probably would have survived. But the question is whether they would have been able to do the Summa cum Laude/PhD thing. Both the fetal distress and the Meconium could have caused brain damage significant enough that mere high school graduation would have been as far as they could go with their education.
Finally, up in MI, there is a graveyard with four generations of my ancestors buried there. In the family section, there are a couple men (ancestors of mine) who had a wife buried on either side of them. In those cases, the first wife inevitably died in childbirth. The question usually wasn’t whether she would die during childbirth, but whether she had had enough kids survive before then to perpetuate the family. Then, the second wife, usually an older woman without her own kids, was brought in to raise the first wife’s kids. They tended to outlive their husbands (never having had kids of their own).
Amen, brother Hayden. Thank God for modern medicine. The US excels at it in every aspect; from biotech to childbirth.
“Which is consonant with what all the smart (about this subject) people above are saying: it is a calculated risk, with the mitigation being to end up at the lower risk location, albeit with some, possibly critical, time delay.
Why take the risk, whatever the calculation? For some benefit, one would think. And, in this case, the only possibly proven benefit is the short term one to the mother (and perhaps father), for having a more familiar, pleasant and perhaps less stressful environment for the birth. There is 0 evidence that this benefit redounds one iota to the infant. I repeat, zero, nil nada. The infant gets all risk and no benefit. The mother gets lot of risk and some benefit, if that is their proclivity.”
From the time that my kid was born and the time when they were in the hands of those two Pediatricians was probably under a minute. Ob/Gyn went snip, snip, and handed them off. (My job was to watch what they were doing, and report it back to the new mother). They were set up for working on infants in the back of the Birthing Room, with folding walls obscuring their stuff, unless it was necessary. And that was maybe five minutes after the Ob/Gyn had announced the Meconium. If the midwife had detected it, and understood the ramifications, the ambulance would still probably have been on the way, by the time that delivery was complete, and then there was the ride to the hospital. No thanks.
My wife and I had our 3rd baby at home, by accident! There was about two minutes of abject terror, followed by bliss. Thank goodness there were no complications.
The thing is that, afterwards the experience was far more pleasant than being in a hospital. For the first two babies, morning, evening and night; an orderly, nurse, intern or resident would pop into the room roughly every 10 minutes, turn on all the lights and generally perform unnecessary checks which shattered our calm.
It is great to have heroic medical intervention ready to go, but after the danger is past, could you just leave us the hell alone?
I agree, you can't be too careful. That's why I always take a dump at the hospital... no stillborn logs on my watch
We have grown so accustomed to miracles around us. We have no idea any longer that life was filled with pain, disease, and death. We suffer now some times because we don't know what suffering is.
Baby 1: midwife, birth center of hospital in Seattle, eventual epidural, OB stepped in when the baby was in distress and was able to turn him enough and get his head un-tilted enough that he could be born normally instead of by emergency C. Baby 2: midwife, birth center of hospital connected to Texas Children's, no anesthesia, and doula attending me because my husband (a) hated being in the room (blood issues) and (b) had to attend to our son. Baby 3: same as Baby 2, with some fetal distress (very slow heartbeat at one point), the resolution of which was just my being exhorted to push NOW, no time to rest, Mom. So I figure the first baby could have killed me and himself; the second and third would probably have made it without medical intervention... but a moot point since I would have been hypothetically already dead.
I loved having midwives and doula. But I was deeply grateful for the nearness of modern medical and surgical resources, knowing well that being a woman in all times of history until the mid-20th century was Russian roulette.
6 days of labor and nobody was willing to call 911? This is manslaughter or worse.
And the "ringleader" saying that the mother gets to decide even if other people there think the baby's life is in danger, and if you disagree you need to go work it out because YOU are the crazy one?
200 years ago roughly 1 in 10 babies were stillborn or died within hours, and maybe 1 in 20 births resulted in the death of the mother. If you want a midwife at home, fine, even a "free-range" birth if your pregnancy has been uneventful and there are no risk factors. But for God's sake have a backup plan in case things go wrong!
This whole thing is deranged.
I've never wanted to go rock climbing. It combined two of the most unpleasant things on earth: gravity and early death. This is even worse. It combines excruciating pain and early death. The fall off El Capitan is relatively quick and painless. Rock climbing is a a more efficient way to build character and achieve early death. Pregnant women should take up rock climbing rather than natural birth.
Jamie. Just an honest question. What was the gain for your children by skirting the full bore hospital delivery, with a MD in charge. There are pluses and minuses in every action we decide to take. What was the plus for your children?
And then, what was the plus for you the mother?
One big issue might be cost avoidance.
I can see conserving resources until absolutely necessary.
Jamie has medical care at the ready.
That seems a prudent decision at 20-30% of the cost.
I knew of plenty of “bad baby” cases where doctors got sued
That's because lawyers are assholes and doctors get sued all the time. John Edwards made a fortune suing doctors who failed to do Caesarians. John Edwards in his summary to the jury was pretending to be the unborn child. "Please, mommy, I need to get out. I need to get our right now. Please, mommy, help me." This is the same fucker who says it's a constitutional right to stab and kill that baby anytime you want to. You look up liar in a dictionary and they should have a picture of John Edwards there.
On a personal note, I once asked John Edwards, in an auditorium full of people, what he thought of partial-birth abortion, and the son of a bitch told me he was appalled by it. So I voted for him in his Senate race, and then the son of a bitch voted for federal legislation making it legal to kill a baby in the middle of birth. I haven't voted for a Democrat since then.
I know a pro-lifer (law professor) who is a big midwife guy.
I don't know a lot about it. One thing I do know, you want to make sure your obstetrician is a pro-life person who will get your baby into a NICU if she's a preemie. There's an appalling lack of regard for premature infants in the medical community. A shocking number of them are willing to go against the wishes of the parents.
If doctors are wondering, hey, where's the trust? Well, look at your baby-care in your medical schools and your sanctioning of the billion dollar abortion industry. Roe v. Wade has corrupted three professions and lawyer and journalist are just two of them.
Childbirth should be rethought. Inducing should be absolutely discouraged, epidurals should be regulated to things of the past. Woman should be shown to a room in the hospital, where I think it’s probably safer, and monitored slightly and otherwise let nature take its course.
What happens when one conflates "natural" with "good"? Sometimes, consequences almost too horrible to contemplate, and the lingering wonder that anyone could actually be that stupid.
I read this article with educated eyes, seeing as how I have been in the field of medicine for over 30 years. In my younger years I was a cooler looking Johnny Gage. In my ambulance with the driver matting the gas, I have seen the stunned, horrified look on the mother's face as she is bleeding out or as I was telling the ED that no fetal heartbeat detected. Hobbes said, "life is nasty, brutish and short." Medical science has been at the forefront of rolling back that very true statement. This group of idiots in the article, rejected advanced, civilized medicine for an "experience." I can only hope they all autodarwinate in the most painful manner possible.
Our younger boy stopped growing in the womb and was induced one month early. Four pounds six. He threw up his first mother's milk and was taken to the NICU where he stayed for eight days, being fed via a tube through his nose. Less serious than the cord-around-the-neck case in this thread, but alarming enough. I'll stick with science.
Barely one century or so above subsistence and we're already biting the hand that feeds.
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