Reported in "Collins and Manchin Will Vote for Kavanaugh, Ensuring His Confirmation" (NYT).
Here's a comment over there (with over 1,000 up votes):
Thank you Heidi Heitkamp, and thank you Lisa Murkowski for standing up for women and against sexual predators. And how about you Susan Collins? Do you want to be the only woman in the Senate to put a man creditably accused of sexual assault against multiple women who has clearly demonstrated his intent in the very recent Jane Doe case to eviscerate, if not overturn, Roe v. Wade? It's time to stand with your sisters and vote "No!" to white male power and privilege to avoid responsibility for sexual misconduct by blaming and mocking the women.ADDED: Here's the Susan Collins speech:
Full text (NYT):
Informed by Alexander Hamilton’s Federalist 76, I have interpreted [the Senate's advise-and-consent role] to mean that the President has broad discretion to consider a nominee’s philosophy, whereas my duty as a Senator is to focus on the nominee’s qualifications as long as that nominee’s philosophy is within the mainstream of judicial thought....
Some argue that because this is a lifetime appointment to our highest court, the public interest requires that doubts be resolved against the nominee. Others see the public interest as embodied in our long-established tradition of affording to those accused of misconduct a presumption of innocence. In cases in which the facts are unclear, they would argue that the question should be resolved in favor of the nominee.ADDED: I'm only quoting a portion of Collins's speech, which is quite substantial. Here is a much shorter speech from Senator Lisa Murkowski, the one Republican who is voting no:
Mr. President, I understand both viewpoints. This debate is complicated further by the fact that the Senate confirmation process is not a trial. But certain fundamental legal principles—about due process, the presumption of innocence, and fairness—do bear on my thinking, and I cannot abandon them.
In evaluating any given claim of misconduct, we will be ill served in the long run if we abandon the presumption of innocence and fairness, tempting though it may be. We must always remember that it is when passions are most inflamed that fairness is most in jeopardy.
The presumption of innocence is relevant to the advice and consent function when an accusation departs from a nominee’s otherwise exemplary record. I worry that departing from this presumption could lead to a lack of public faith in the judiciary and would be hugely damaging to the confirmation process moving forward.
This hasn’t been fair to the judge, but I also recognize that we need to have institutions that are viewed as fair and if people who are victims, people who feel that there is no fairness in our system of government, particularly in our courts, then you’ve gone down a path that is not good and right for this country. And so I have been wrestling with whether or not this was about qualifications of a good man or is this bigger than the nomination.
And I believe we’re dealing with issues right now that are bigger than the nominee and how we ensure fairness and how our legislative and judicial branch can continue to be respected. This is what I have been wrestling with, and so I made the — took the very difficult vote that I did.
I believe Brett Kavanaugh’s a good man. It just may be that in my view he’s not the right man for the court at this time. So I have taken my vote here this morning, I’m going to go back to my office and write a floor statement that is more fulsome and have the opportunity to have that.
But this has truly been the most difficult evaluation of a decision that I have ever had to make, and I’ve made some interesting ones in my career. But I value and respect where my colleagues have come down from in their support for the judge, and I think we’re at a place where we need to begin thinking about the credibility and integrity of our institutions.
२१५ टिप्पण्या:
215 पैकी 1 – 200 नवीन› नवीनतम»This is from the NYT so it means nothing.
Her speech was pretty good. I listened to it live on the Howie Carr show. It needed to be long. No liberal is going to respond to the points she actually made.
a man creditably accused of sexual assault against multiple women
At least they've move from "credibly" to "creditably".
And how about you Susan Collins?
Collins spent nearly an hour explaining her vote. How about YOU respect her enough to listen to her. Or do you think that women don't deserve to be listened to? Or be able to think for themselves?
If one wants to know who is really anti-woman, they need to look left.
Stand with your sisters! Why, no, I think she will not stand with her sisters.
That comment is a typical incoherent rant by a leftists.
He has been accused by multiple women. He'll vote against RvW!
Therefore he must be destroyed. The subtext is if he were to support RvW he'd be forgiven.
Horrible awful people.
Five to four. Five to four. We love the sound of five to four in the morning....it sounds ...like victory. So rejoice and send portions to those who cannot be here. The Joy of DaTrump is your strength.
Frankly, what difference does it make now.
She gets oversized attention. A couple of net pickups for the Rs would fix that.
I thought sisters sat.
I was hoping for ‘I think she’s a fibbin chowdahead. Ayuh.’
I hope this ugly little chapter of American history is at an end. It will be mocked in the future I hope for.
There must be charges against Ford and her conspirators insofar as they broke the law. Otherwise there is no deterrant to a similar or more extreme effort next time.
Kudos to Senator Collins. She is one smart Main Lander
The next Andrew Breitbart is watching this.
So there he was with the rest of America watching the Anita Hill sexual harassment testimony play out on national television. He heard that Judge Thomas was some kind of predatory monster who had to be “taken down” for his horrible behavior. He tuned in expecting, wanting this man to get what he deserved for being so horrible to Ms. Hill.
“I watched Day One, I watched Day Two, I watched the entire thing,” he said years later in an interview on C-SPAN. “I went from wanting him to be taken down to saying, ‘Where’s the beef? What’s going on here?’
“I don’t understand what I’m watching here. I don’t understand the color commentary that’s on the screen, where they’re saying, ‘Oh, this is outrageous.’ And I didn’t understand the bumper stickers that were going by me on the streets that say ‘I believe Anita.’ I believe Anita WHAT? What’s going on here?”
Breitbart not only was unmoved by the laughable allegations made against Judge Thomas, but he was also dumbfounded by the experts, pundits and journalists proclaiming to the world that what we were hearing was so outrageous and “disqualifying” that Judge Thomas should be removed from consideration for the nation’s highest court. He (and most other Americans) could see through the partisan efforts of the media and the political class who didn’t pause for a moment of reflection before trying to destroy a good man’s reputation for the sole purpose of keeping him and his unacceptable political ideology from sitting on the U.S. Supreme Court.
This is real.
Many, many women are so infantile that they're still not past the first-grade level of "girls against the boys" bullshit. It wouldn't be so disturbingly stupid if those dunces weren't, you know, the majority of women.
And everything she said went in one ear of the democratnmob and out the other.
He was plausibly accused by one woman. The Ramirez accusation was semi-possible. The Swetnick accusation was patently absurd. I suppose technically speaking these are multiple accusations, but not much nuance in the reporting.......Just about everybody who served with Kerry in Vietnam thought he was a dick. This was called swift-boating. Just about everybody who went to school or worked with Kavanaugh thought he was a good guy. There was one girl who claimed a bad experience in high school and a couple of his college classmates said he drank to excess. This is called investigative journalism.
"the only woman in the Senate"
I guess flyover-country Senators Ernst and Fischer don't count as women.
”...a man creditably (sic) accused of sexual assault against multiple women ...”
I have seen this (or similar) embedded in virtually every anti-Kavanauh argument. Do these people think they can just make this statement and we’ll all be fooled? I actually think it’s a tell that they know their argument fails over this point.
That this is such a big deal confirms that Collins is not a reliable Republican/conservative. However, her statement today was a good one, well-reasoned and reasonable. Moreover, she stood up to a lot of pressure and intimidation. She is to be commended for that.
Jordan Peterson, on the other hand, opined that Kavanaugh should step down if confirmed. Just in case you (conservatives) thought he was on your side, now you know better.
How much do you want to bet the person who wrote that comment happily voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016?
I have not listened to the speech. But from what is quoted here. It seems good. Except for the ritual expression of belief that she was sexually assaulted. Sure, it's possible that she was and that she misremembers who did it (a false recovered memory) or conveniently substituted Kavanaugh for the real culprit. I think it at least as likely that she just plain fabricated the whole thing for political purposes.
Jordan Peterson, on the other hand, opined that . . .
I'll ask again -- Who the eff is this Jordan Peterson?? And why is anyone talking about him?
Where did he come from all of a sudden? And why should I care what he says?
My recommendation to all Republicans who wish to commit to a life of sex crimes is that they cease being Republicans. Someone like Harvey Weinstein can spend decades sexually abusing wealthy, well connected women and not cause much of a blip in the radar. How did he get away with it? Well, for one thing he was a big fund raiser for Hillary. I don't think his crimes would have been tolerated if he had at any point in his life said a nice word about the 2nd amendment......Poor Kavanaugh gets drunk a couple of times in college, and some of his classmates can't wait to spread the news.
Collins should stand with her sisters? Wouldn't that rightfully depend on where her sisters stand?
To stand up for the vital necessity of preserving "presumption of innocence" strikes me as the right place to stand tall. The women, and men, who are ready to ride roughshod over that principle make a mockery of the American ideal of equal justice for all. But what does principle matter to the "sisters" urging such abandonment? What does it say about them?
No need to answer, we already know the "sisters" don't give a rat's ass about what's good for the country or abuse victims, it's all about their grip on power and manipulation to achieve it.
BTW, that so much reminds me of a common description of rape, a crime not about sex but domination and sense of power over others. Perhaps someone can tell me how one quest for "power" differs from the other.
Senator Collins really surprised me. I didn't think she had it in her to speak so eloquently about the proper role of a senator in the confirmation process, the principles of innocent until proven guilty and preponderance of evidence, the court cases that are key to understanding Kavanaugh's judicial philosophy on hot button issues of the critics, the peril in continuing the process that we have endured, and the disgusting treatment of the accuser by whomever leaked her allegations.
I listened closely as she spoke and imagined I was hearing the U.S. Senate when it was normal for senators to speak to principle and not politics, to explain their views clearly using common sense, and to base their views on the Constitution and traditions of the Senate. What a joy! Senator Collins reminds me of the New Englanders of my youth and their reliance on common sense as the basis for their views.
Bravo, Senator Collins! Your speech will go down in Senate lore and a consequential one on a critical confirmation and at a critical time for the Senate and the U.S. Had the Democrat/progressive/media complex won this battle we would face endless similar attempts to lie, cheat and threaten in order to get what they want. Now the people need to punish them at the ballot box to send a message: we don't ignore due process and rule of law in America.
How much do you want to bet the person who wrote that comment happily voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016?
Steve Uhr?
There were plenty of reasons to boof this nominee up Schlump's arse, and tell him to pick a goddam woman justice. The comments' section on this blog has become so hard-right, and pro-Schlump as to have become worthless to intelligent discourse. The hatred around here is palpable, extreme, and represents the worst humanity has to offer. May you all suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, and choke on your own vomit.
grimson -- good point.
Collins had a fine, high-minded statement. I greatly preferred Trump’s trash talk.
On the whole its a pretty good speech. I refused to listen to it, real time, because I get tired of the "Hey, Look at me, I'm the center of attention, woo hoo!" aspect.
Anyway, it shouldn't have been this hard. If Collins voted for Goresuch, she should've voted for Kavanaugh in a micro-second.
BTW, conservatives repeat the same dumb behavior time after time. I saw this with Souter, and Roberts. A Republican President nominates a liberal, or a moderate conservative , and the Left pushes back, and then the Conservatives think they've won some BIG VICTORY by getting them on the Court. Then the judges - like Souter and Roberts - start deciding cases and its "OMG, they're not Conservative!!!"
Kavnanaugh isn't Scalia. He's a Bushie. Whether he's slightly to the right, or slightly to the Left, of Roberts is unknown. But he's an establishment insider. Born and raised in the "Beltway", Yale, Yale Law, Bush administration, Federal Judiciary.
How,could it be credible without a time or a place? And the accusations get even more ridiculous going forth.
Hey guys, Aunty Trump is here! Now it’s a party!
Just because the Left hates you, doesn't mean you're conservative.
Blogger Trumpit said...”There were plenty of reasons to boof this nominee up Schlump's arse, and tell him to pick a goddam woman justice.”
Oh, the next nominee might very well be a woman. Why do you think you’ll be happy about that?
Maybe but this was a warning to anyone like any Barrett, we will burn you to the ground.
Only white males are capable of rape, apparently *shrug*
All those non-white males in prison thanks to a rape or sexual assault conviction need to get their lawyers on the horn, stat.
"Credibly accused" is the new "fake but accurate."
"Creditably" does not mean the same thing as "credibly." These Very Smart and Well-Educated NYT Commenters... lol
I don't believe Blasey at all. It's concocted.
The timing.
How is it she made it through most of her life and now suddenly this so-called non-rape actually found its way in and bothers her.
I call BS.
The mixture of characters involved - all suspect.
Also worth a mention is the Ramirez lie. All of the players involved in that are Colorado Democrats. Bennett, Stan Garnett... a motley group of assorted power-players.
Narcisco
Probably is. I hope we get to find out as soon as possible.
This shit show has changed my thinking. I want a Red Wave. The Democrats are more dangerous than I realized. I expect violence in the next few days, and an escalation of the hate mobbing.
I think Blasey Ford is a mental case, but the people behind her do not have that excuse.
And there is some serious money and political power behind her. Blasey Ford does not have either the ability or the money to make up this show and scrub the internet of all inconvenient posts, etc., nor for hiring the lawyer that showed up at the Senate hearing.
Lack of corroborating witnesses and physical evidence, recovered memories influenced by personal prejudice and external bias, and a single testimony that changes with each iteration, is not the basis for a credible allegation. While possible is politically congruent to probable, they are not, in fact, equal.
Jew Privilege was a concept under Germany's National Socialist regime. American leftists need to reevaluate their ideological alignment.
Warlock trials are unconstitutional. Both witch and warlock trials are a violation of civil rights.
Selective-child is unconstitutional under several Amendments. While Pro-Choice is a natural right, and a quasi-legal rite under the Twilight Amendment, it is two choices too late. Selective-child is a wicked solution that is a violation of civil and human rights.
Men and women are equal in rights and complementary in Nature. Men and women both have rights and responsibilities for their voluntary behaviors.
So, Trumpit, how the hell can you stand reading this blog? And why would you bother posting here? (Hint, hint...)
"We will be ill-served in the long run if we abandon the presumption of innocence."
Everything, really.
Due process out the window if the accuser is a leftwing female.
If the accused is a leftwing male, flip it. Nothing to see here.
Credible. They keep using that word.
Only white males are capable of rape, apparently *shrug*
As we used to say back in the 1960's, as far as they're concerned we're all Niggers, it's just the black ones stand out more.
@rcocean: I could be wrong, but I think you will be pleasantly surprised by Kavanaugh.
"Credible" how? Because of her passive girl-talk performance?
Not one person - NOT ONE Soul corroborated her tale.
I'd say Basely Ford is the farthest thing from credible.
It paralleled the Clarence Thomas matter, so exactly it couldn't be a,coincidence. And that was almost exactly 27 years ago
@ tradionalguy
Five to four, baby
Four in five
No one here gets out alive, now
You get yours, baby
I'll get mine
The comments' section on this blog has become so hard-right, and pro-Schlump as to have become worthless to intelligent discourse.
Fortunately, that does not include you or I would suggest you go elsewhere. DailyKos would be a better fit.
I think the reason the FBI did not interview Blasey Ford and Kavanaugh was mainly that they did not want to go there in case she slipped up and stated something so plainly at variance with her Senate testimony that it could not be ignored and something would have to be done about it. If they did not interview Blasey Ford, they also had to pass by Kavanaugh and, of course, the excuse they already had testified under oath was good for both.
The feminist movement is about demanding conformity?
I never could have seen that coming.
/sarc
“If one wants to know who is really anti-woman, they need to look left.”
Nonsense. The right is only now realizing that they need their women voters to bail them out from the misogynism. They are hiding behind the skirts of conservative women now because they have to not because they want to.
David French has a magnificent column https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/10/kavanaugh-case-for-confirmation-allegations-explained/
Btw yesterday was the twenty fifth anniversary of the battle of Mogadishu, whose result was also buried by narrative till mark Bowden investigated the matter, it turns out it was al quedas first successful strike.
@ScottAdamsSays 6 hours ago:
"Senator Collins just gave the best speech I have ever heard. #kavanaugh"
Women have trouble with simple decisions, so no wonder they get it wrong a lot. Yet somebody votes for them.
Collins’ speech marks a key moment in our history where Trump goes from Resisted to Irresistible. This moment is shocking, tbh. The next two years will be like Reagan’s third and fourth years where he earned the legacy he has to this day.
I really believe that. Mueller will wind down and tiptoe out of DC. NeverTrump is vanquished. And the left is completely and totally in the wilderness. If Ruth Bader Ginsburg retires, Trump can name Krusty the Klown and he’ll sail through. The left gambled big and lost bigger.
She was great today. Northeast republicans are the best
Lisa Murkowski is going to take herself out of the line of fire by voting against Kavanaugh, but then requesting that it be recorded as "present" in order to "pair" her with the senator whose daughter is getting married tomorrow.
Or so she thinks.
Based on their words, Senator Collins, informed by Federalist No. 76, understood that her job of advice and consent leaves it to our President to decide who the right person for the job is; while Senator Murkowski thinks that it is up to her as a Senator to reject anyone who she does not think is the right person for the job. I think Senator Collins has the better view, assuming that they stated their real reasons.
Of course if one wants to be cynical (and it IS so hard to keep up) then their words are just excuses for their real reasons for voting as they do . . whatever those may be.
Inga, nobody hates women as a group. You're a liar. Of course, Althouse repeats this lie incessantly, too.
Any man with any sense hates a bitch like you. You worked hard to deserve it.
It's not a class thing, Inga. The hatred you keep feeling is aimed at you individually because you earned it.
You are hideous and detestable. Own it.
grimson said...
"the only woman in the Senate"
I guess flyover-country Senators Ernst and Fischer don't count as women.
Nor apparently do Shelly Moore Capito of West Virginia and Cindy Hyde-Smith of Mississippi.
The writer of the Times comment obviously couldn't bother to check the facts. Had he done so, he'd have found that rather than not standing by "her sisters," Collins is actually standing by four of them.
the Communists at UT certainly agree with Inga and Ritmo.
Me Too is obviously a fraud just like the phony bullshit these lying whores foisted on this poor dummy. This guy was too much of a pussy to do anything like they accused him of doing. He couldn't get laid in a whorehous
You need to be Democrat like Weinstein or Carlos Danger or Matt Lauer or Charlie Rose or Tom Brokaw or that congress monkey from Detroit if you want to get away with this kind of shit for decades. Not a goody two shoes nerd boy like Kavanaugh. Shit if he was a black Muslim he could have beat the ever loving shit out of these woman and the press would not cover it just like they are doing with that Minnesota Muslim Mutt.
Me Too is just lies concocted in the Woman Studies Department. Much like the reparations nonsense concocted in the Black Studies sink hole.
Normal Americans can just ignore it. We know what to do when someone steps out of line with the women in our life. We beat the shit out of them. We don't need a Congressional Committee or Ronan Farrow. We don't follow them into elevators shouting at them if they actually did this shit. The reason why these stupid broads are so out of sorts is because they don't have any men who care about them. Just their cats.
The #meToo bit is feminism unraveling as it shows its true totalitarian colors. (Of course, that's always been there for anybody who wants to see.)
What does #meToo have to offer besides junking the presumption of innocence and trial by media ordeal?
...and tell him to pick a goddam woman justice.
The women's role in American politics is to complain about men.
Feminists and ladies that opposed Kavanaugh...
We need to talk...
I have some news. But you're not going to like it and to give it to you i need you to go to the bathroom and look in the mirror. There? Good...
YOU ARE THE MEAN GIRLS! YEP. YOU! YOU ARE DEBBIE FLICK. YOU ARE POCKET HITLER!
Whew. Guess that means you'll stop now huh?
(Sigh)
...and tell him to pick a goddam woman justice.
The women's role in American politics is to complain about men.
@langford
A pretty succinct summary.
And I believe that Christine Blasey Ford was a lying POS who managed to bamboozle Collins, Althouse, and many others who should not have so readily abandoned their skepticism.
The problem for Democrats is that the keep trying to treat all of women as an identity group that will respond to their dog whistles. But they aren't and they won't (with some exceptions).
I think it's hard for a neutral (even cruelly neutral) observer not to impose at least a "preponderance of the evidence" standard on the claims against Kavanaugh. That is, if you truly believe that it is more likely than not that he has been falsely accused, then it is hard to say that those false accusations (even if plausible) justify defeating the nomination. Applying some sort of "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion, seems to me to almost always be pretextual.
Of course, if you opposed Judge Kavanaugh to begin with, then you may well decide these accusations make you like him even less now.
When that commie crone retires Trump is gonna name that broad from Notre Dame with the twenty kids. What are they going to accuse her of to stop her nomination?
I know. She is too Catholic. She has too many kids and goes to church. Every millennial who has five cats and a studio apartment in Bushwick will be out protesting the fecund religious white lady.
You can see this crap coming from a mile away.
Senator Collins gave a great speech, a sort of civics lesson. She applied the Constitution to the Kavanaugh issue. She showed how due process works and how advise and consent work for a Senator. Remember she has been personally threatened, together with her family and her future. In the face of that she explained and acted on the principles in the Constitution. And it was very nice to see a woman showing intelligence and courage instead of stupidity nicely mixed with blind hysterical rage.
“Collins’ speech marks a key moment in our history where Trump goes from Resisted to Irresistible. This moment is shocking, tbh. The next two years will be like Reagan’s third and fourth years where he earned the legacy he has to this day.”
You think Collins is voting the way she is because Trump is irresistible to her?
LOL!
grimson said...
"the only woman in the Senate"
Not to mention Amy Klobuchar.
“The truth matters, and the truth is proved with evidence.”
There EXACTLY is my beef with Althouse. She embraced feelings, impressions, her own intuition, in preference to a hard headed demand for evidence. This I take it is Hardin’s complaint about women in general, and it isn’t true of women in general, but it was true of Althouse.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/10/kavanaugh-case-for-confirmation-allegations-explained/
I respect Collins and don’t blame her for voting the way she is. She is caught between a rock and a hard place.
Two thoughts:
1) Trump has taught some, if not all, that's it's OK to fight back against the leftist hate.
2) The leftist hate has radicalized Trump and now probably Kav, and now the leftists have to live with that.
10/5/18, 8:45 PM
How many of you people hated Collins and bad mouthed her every chance you got, now she’s a key vote, and is voting your way and all of a sudden she’s your hero.
What fickle people you are.
Inga
You are missing the irresistible point.
We simply need to repeal the nineteenth amendment and let the soap opera women go back to ironing and making sandwiches.
Rhhardin is a truly a sage and a man ahead of his time.
You think Collins is voting the way she is because Trump is irresistible to her?
No, stupid Inga.
He means that you are about to suffer thru a six year nightmare because Trump is succeeding on all fronts.
Your crazy commie obsessions are not what sane people want. Sane people want a great economy, jobs, border security and a fair and impartial judicial system.
They don't want your permanent revolution with men and women at one another's throats.
I know. She is too Catholic. She has too many kids and goes to church.
Wrong religion. Too many of her and her husband's Posterity. And an unbelievably successful career, too.
She may be a witch. Either way, she's a poor role model for the progressive feminist.
How would you possibly know what sane people want Screeching Thomas?
This whole sordid bullshit leftwing lie fest has pulled me closer to Lindsey Graham.
I feat formerly impossible.
Love ya, hunk.
White neurotic upper-class feminists.. Mean grrls "Pocket Hitlers" lolz. Hardest hit.
She is caught between a rock and a hard place.
--
Rock: presumption of innocence
Hard Place: "Believe the woman!"
I mean it might be tough to repeal that amendment. So can we at least add a clause that any woman who has more than one cat is ineligible to vote?
We can call it the One Pussy at a time penumbra or something.
Collins was admired and respected by women on the left for many many years, despite her occasional votes strictly along partisan lines. You people hated her, not us.
Collins is voting the way she is for one simple and obvious reason. Christine Blasey Ford is not credible. And she knows people can not be allowed to get away with tactics like this.
ark said...
Jordan Peterson, on the other hand, opined that . . .
I'll ask again -- Who the eff is this Jordan Peterson?? And why is anyone talking about him?
10/5/18, 7:57 PM
Mark said...
Where did he come from all of a sudden? And why should I care what he says?
If you really don't know, he has a mega hit of a book, and thousands of followers, including many conservatives, who look to him for guidance. He has in fact garnered (Ding !) much praise from conservatives. It's important that they know he is not really on their team.
She could only wish that she was caught at the Rocks hard place.
Although it is rumored that she likes black dick so I guess it is possible. Just unlikely.
You people also hated Lindsey Graham for many years and bad mouthed him, now you love him too. Fickle lovers. Maybe he can’t resist Trump, lol. Maybe he grew to love him the way Trump grew to love Kim of North Korea.
. . . the only woman in the Senate . . .
Deb Fischer, Shelley Moore Capito, Joni Ernst, and Cindy Hyde-Smith joined Susan Collins in voting for Brett Kavanaugh.
Inga, you are too stupid, vile and evil to go out in public.
Hide yourself.
People will think better of you. It's the best thing you can do.
I liked Sarah Palin's tweet to Murkowski that she can see 2022 from her house. Boom!
. . the only woman in the Senate . . .
Catherine Cortez-Masto (D-NV) probably voted No, but she also is a card-carrying woman in the Senate
On the other hand, I'm enjoying watching you get your ass handed to you over and over by President Trump.
You do have a place in the idiot chorus. Hide in the back row and cover your face.
Sarah Palin's tweet to Murkowski that she can see 2022 from her house
Palin has a sensible temperament. She could still run for President.
Screeching Thomas,
You’re more of a hysteric than any woman I know.
i wish she was Barnabas Collins.
Then she could have bitten them.
Most popular comment updated:
Thank you Heidi Heitkamp, and thank you Lisa Murkowski for standing up for women and against sexual predators. Except Bill Clinton, who we would all blow because we love him so. And how about you Susan Collins? Do you want to be the only woman in the history of earth to use common sense and logic and the presumption of innocence in the face of an accusation without er.. proof or corroborations? How dare you consider due process. Blasey Ford was gang raped, and it was just yesterday. In her head, and in the news.
bitch.
The Senate gave us a man creditably accused of sexual assault by a pile of leftwing females, most of whom had to recant or slime back under the rug. It's time to stand with your sisters and Avanetti and vote "No!"
Vote yes to white upper-class female power and privilege. We must avoid responsibility for sexual misconduct by blaming non-leftists who might overturn our sacred religion. Roe V Wade. Amen.
Fixed.
The #MeToo movement does not matter. What matters are the civil and human rights of men, women, and babies, too. Reconcile.
I bet Professor Blowzy Ford puts peanut butter on her pussy to get her cats to lick her to orgasm.
It just may be that in my view he’s not the right man for the court at this time.
Huh? Say what? Instead of working on a longer floor speech Murkowski should be offering a few doves on the altar of Apollo to banish that peculiar "may". If she's not certain why Kavanaugh should not be confirmed the Alaskans need to recall her pronto. The Senator owes her constituents a clear and definitive reason why not. Her "he's not the right man at this time" bullshit is bullshit with a capital BULL and an uppercase SHIT. If a majority of Alaskans have told her to vote down Kavanaugh, that would be reason enough. But they haven't, therefore she'd better have a Churchillian speech ready because nothing less than brilliance will save her political hide from recall or a primary challenge.
Little commented upon is the fate of Addison Russell, who will soon be an ex-Cub shortstop.
Russell has been tried and convicted by the Chicago sports writing press of physical abuse of his wife, based on nothing but a blog post by his wife.
Russell makes a lot of money. He and his wife are going through an angry divorce and child custody battle.
Accusations of physical and sexual abuse are common weapons of extortion in these types of divorce cases.
I don't know the truth, and neither do Chicago sports writers, but they've made this man virtually unemployable in his profession based on zero evidence.
I read her speech. Good points: 1) how broken the confirmation process has become; and 2) how Ford's charge didn't even rise to the lower 'more likely than not' standard, therefore it wouldn't be fair for it to disqualify a nominee.
What I didn't see in her speech: 1) any acknowledgement of how devastating a false sexual assault change can be on a man's life; and 2) any acknowledgement that men too are victims of sexual assault.
The hate is strong in libs. They were for Susan Collins before they were against her.
Little commented on is the million dollars this twit is getting for lying about the judge. A payoff plain and simple.
Lying pays well.
Just look at all the liars in the Main Steam Media.
That shit has to be illegal. Can you really make a million dollars by perjury?
That shit has to be illegal. Can you really make a million dollars by perjury?
Yes.
Ford is also going home to acclaim within her profession and community as a feminist martyr. She'll rake it in thru media appearances and book contracts, too.
Althouse's most stunning comment (out of her many bizarre comments in this case) was her insistence that Ford could not possibly have a self-interest in committing perjury.
ST: The propensity for untruths has always been an equal opportunity trait.
“If a majority of Alaskans have told her to vote down Kavanaugh, that would be reason enough. But they haven't, therefore she'd better have a Churchillian speech ready because nothing less than brilliance will save her political hide from recall or a primary challenge.”
Alaska’s indigenous tribes have lobbied Murkowski to vote no and they are an integral part of voting base.
Are there no bedrock American principles that the Left does not wish to destroy?
Assumption of innocence, freedom of association, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom to defend yourself with arms?
How many conservatives -- half the country, more or less -- feel unthreatened by the pursuit of "justice" by the left?
Althouse's most stunning comment (out of her many bizarre comments in this case) was her insistence that Ford could not possibly have a self-interest in committing perjury.
Althouse can be painfully naive at times.
She has over a million reasons to lie. All of them are green and fold over to fit in her purse.
I bet Althouse would have done it if they asked her to lie to destroy this guy. If the money was good.
I mean look how cheap it was to get her to eat an egg salad sandwich.
As George Bernard Shaw said...we have established what all elderly professors are....now we are just haggling about the price.
Mockturtle
Naive isn’t the word. Althouse just put up a whole post boasting about her distrust of declared motives, how everyone has a motive.
Everyone except the distraught woman whose husband believes her and who strokes one of AA's biases.
It's not naive, it's motivated. It's bullshit. She thinks some of us lie about her. She thinks we can have a motive to lie .... but Ford can’t.
@Althouse, Ken B nailed it at 8:46.
Also, when are you going to put a decent picture of yourself in your Wikipedia entry? The picture that’s there looks like a mug shot.
Everyone has a motive, that’s why true neutrality doesn’t exist. One can’t reasonably think others have motives but not oneself.
Also, you people should stop bashing Althouse. What would you have done if she didn’t give you this forum? You’ve punished her enough.
And Big Mike, stop being an idiot. Let’s see a pic of you.
”Everyone has a motive, that’s why true neutrality doesn’t exist.”
Which is exactly why we have (had) a system which requires evidence of charges.
Oops. I am sorry for the extra lines.
“Which is exactly why we have (had) a system which requires evidence of charges.”
A decent full investigation could’ve helped determine that.
Inga...Allie Oop said...
You people also hated Lindsey Graham for many years and bad mouthed him, now you love him too. Fickle lovers."
I dislike many of the things Graham has done in the past. I praise his courage in standing up to you vile harpies.
It is possible for a person to, you know, do things you disagree with and to do other things which are commendable.
This is not difficult to understand, unless you are a hopelessly dim-witted leftist.
I watched Laura Ingrahm interview an anti-Kavanaugh woman earlier this evening. Ingrahm asked something like, ‘facts matter, don’t they? and the response was “emotions are facts too.”
Arrrrggggh!
A decent full investigation could’ve helped determine that.
10/5/18, 9:40 PM
Cry some more, Inga. I'm enjoying it.
>>The subtext is if he were to support RvW he'd be forgiven.
It's not subtext at all. It's been said many times, over and over again, plainly and in English.
Ted Kennedy killed a woman. But he was a liberal, so it was OK.
There's not much "sub" there...
Inga...Allie Oop said...Also, you people should stop bashing Althouse.
--
What did you call her here? Stupid Bitch? Dumb Bitch?
Crying? Nope. It’ll only make the Blue Wave bigger. One sometimes needs to make sacrifices to get the prize.
Also, you people should stop bashing Althouse.
I'm not bashing Althouse. Her commitment to free speech is awesome.
She has a base now that can lead us out of this idiocy, and I think that confers a responsibility on her. It's long past time for her to admit that feminism is Marxism and nothing else, and that her seduction into Marxist feminism was a lifelong mistake.
This has to be incredibly painful to her. She's invested 50 years in a lie. She has a network of women friends who will hate her for rejecting this lie.
You don't know this, but she reads and considers what I say carefully. I was one of the first to endorse President Trump early in the primaries and I explained my reasons at length in my old blog. She read and absorbed that and I can see that it led to changes in her thinking about Trump.
She's persuadable. One thing you don't seem to know about lawyers and law professors is that they love contentious argument... the more contentious the better. That's what attracted them to their professions.
”A decent full investigation could’ve helped determine that.”
There was an investigation.
“What did you call her here? Stupid Bitch? Dumb Bitch?”
Yep, dumb bitch. But not over her opinions, over something personal. You people have bashed her for weeks now because she had the nerve to express her opinion on her own damn blog. Ungrateful asses that you are.
"One sometimes needs to make sacrifices to get the prize."
Said Harry Reid regarding sliming Romney.
"He didn't win, did he?"
“There was an investigation.”
Oh please, you know full well the scope was very limited. Democrats and liberals won’t forget that in November.
Ungrateful asses that you are.
Althouse's blog is not the only lively forum around.
Instapundit and Steve Sailer come to mind immediately.
Your remarks are beginning to sound like the whining of a junior high school girl.
“You don't know this, but she reads and considers what I say carefully.”
I’m sure she does Tommy.
I won’t laugh.
"But not over her opinions, over something personal. "
Ah..will evidence support that?
Perhaps we need the FBI to suss that out.
”Oh please, you know full well the scope was very limited.”
What I know full well is Feinstein had this in July, but she held it back hoping to delay the vote past the election. You know that too.
And how long does it take to interview all the people Ford listed as witnesses? Assuming their private statements matched their public ones, that it didn’t happen, what else is there to do?
Althouse knows the law firm and lawyers I worked for in NYC, Inga. She knows them personally, I'd bet. She dealt with them in placing her students.
She's not a complete fucking idiot bitch like you.
She admires the musicians I played with, too.
There were people who knew Ford and Kavanugh who called the FBI begging to be interviewed and got no response.
”Democrats and liberals won’t forget that in November.”
LOL, you were already at 11. What you did accomplish is to stir up Republicans. As to what happens, I don’t do trash talk.
You people also hated Lindsey Graham for many years and bad mouthed him, now you love him too. Fickle lovers.
Inga, you're not alone. Not alone in being totally unaware of what has happened. Clueless about how the Democrats have shit all over the Senate. Totally fucked over every single relationship between the Democrats, and the Republicans in the Judiciary Committee. Grassely and Feinstein worked together for years. Graham worked across the aisle all the time. Collins WAS a moderate Republican. Democrats have burned it all to the ground.
Go back and read the speeches from Grassley, Graham, McConnell, and now, closed out by Collins. Democrats have zero credibility. Democrats have shifted the Republicans to hard line positions. Several have used the same quote, sowed the wind, now reap the whirl wind. Democrats have created an existance for themselves they cannot seek relief from.
There were people who knew Ford and Kavanugh who called the FBI begging to be interviewed and got no response.
Now, you're just plain fucking lying, Inga.
What else is new?
You can't possibly be privy to such information. At least try to lie in a believable fashion.
”There were people who knew Ford and Kavanugh who called the FBI begging to be interviewed and got no response.”
Says who?
Don’t get excited Tommy, I’m sure she respects you and your opinions.
That "don't get excited" tactic is wearing pretty thin, liar.
Try at least to invent a new tactic. You're boring me now.
So, tell me, liar Inga, how you could possibly be privy to confidential information in an FBI investigation?
OM, there are dozens of articles about this. Surely this isn’t the first time you’ve heard this.
“More than 20 individuals who know either Kavanaugh or Ramirez, who has accused the nominee of exposing himself to her while the two attended Yale University, have not heard from the FBI despite attempts to contact investigators, including Kavanaugh’s roommate at the time and a former close Ramirez friend.
A senior U.S. official and two other sources briefed on the details of the FBI investigation confirmed to NBC news that the FBI’s work on the Brett Kavanaugh matter remains significantly limited in scope, and that it’s unlikely agents will be allowed to interview many, if any, additional witnesses before the probe wraps up this week.
One current and two former FBI officials confirmed to NBC News that dozens of witnesses have come forward to FBI field offices who say they have information on Brett Kavanaugh, but agents have not been permitted to talk to many of them. To the extent that any interviews have been done, the officials say, it’s not clear the information will be considered as part of the FBI’s limited scope inquiry.
Internally, the bureau is concerned that the constraints of the investigation could damage its reputation for finding the truth, the officials said.”
NBC
And, wasn't it only yesterday that you were swearing on the Bible that the FBI was the most trustworthy, honest investigative bureau in the history of humanity? That the Trump admin was likely to be impeached for the offense of criticizing the FBI.
You know, back when you wanted the FBI to spy the Trump administration.
OM, there are dozens of articles about this. Surely this isn’t the first time you’ve heard this.
You're relying a "articles" to assume you know confidential FBI information.
You're a liar. A deliberate liar.
The FBI has been so clearly in the tank for all things Trump. I bet those folks' claims were incredibly credible.
(and timely)
@Walter
Inga is so dumb and venal that you need to attach a sarcasm tag to that one.
@Walter
Inga is so dumb and venal that you need to attach a sarcasm tag to that one.
They all say Ford was a compulsive liar and addicted to amphetamines.
There were people who knew Ford and Kavanugh who called the FBI begging to be interviewed and got no response.
I’m not blaming the FBI, I’m blaming Trump for ordering the scope to be so narrow.
I’m not naming the FBI, I’m blaming Trump for ordering the scope to be so narrow.
Another fact that you cannot possible know.
Stop lying, Inga. You're digging deeper.
This spectacle was fascinating. Trump picked a W guy. Beltway Brett. And watched it play out. The Beltway GOP had to come to this guy’s defense. I mean Lindsay Graham is tearing the Dems apart at the hearing and Susan Collins carries him across the goal line.
Trump gave him support and threw a few elbows. One Beer Blasey. But he made the Beltway GOP do the heavy lifting. They finally grew a backbone.
"Crying? Nope. It’ll only make the Blue Wave bigger."
Uh huh.
Qunnipiac:
Generic Ballot among white women
Jul 22: D+14
Sep 9: D+5
Sep 30: D+1
Most women can see though this vile sham.
Tommy, can you stop your infernal yelling? I was trying to have a nice discussion with Original Mike.
Stop lying, Inga. You're an habitual liar.
Or at least try to make your lies believable at some level.
You just flipped twice in the space of a few days.
Only a few days ago, the FBI was the most honest, incredibly dispassionate law enforcement agency ever created.
That was when you thought the FBI was part of a conspiracy to destroy President Trump
Now, the FBI is actively and deliberately obstructing an investigation.
And Trump ordered it.
Try not to be so stupid and obvious about your lying, Inga.
Real Clear Politics 2018 Congressional vote.
Ritmo will join you shortly, Inga.
Comic gold for the ages.
*Jordan Peterson, on the other hand, opined that Kavanaugh should step down if confirmed*
I find that interesting and intriguing.
Which is more principled ...
Take seat or thank you for the support, but no.
Can he do more good on the court or as private citizen lawfaring his accusers? To hell and gone.
Inga ignores information she doesn't like so she apparently missed Althouse's earlier post about this:
"Atlantic reporter Emma Green talked with about a dozen female conservative leaders across the country for a story this week that puts flesh on the Marist poll’s finding: that the Kavanaugh hearings have electrified conservative women too. “I’ve got women in my church who were not politically active at all who were incensed with this,” the chairwoman of the West Virginia Republican Party told Green. The Indiana state director for the anti-abortion Susan B. Anthony List, Jodi Smith, told Green that “people in Indiana are angry.”
Congrats, bozos! You'll still lose the SCOTUS seat to a man who is now justifiably angry over the shabby way he has been smeared by the left, and you've managed to fire up GOP voters so they are every bit as motivated as you are to vote in November. And the nation was treated to the sight of screeching bitches harassing and threatening GOP pols. Yeah, you totalitarians have really done yourself proud.
Narayanan Subramanian said...
*Jordan Peterson, on the other hand, opined that Kavanaugh should step down if confirmed*
I like Peterson, but he's a Canuck, an outsider. Thanks for your opinion, Jordan. It's a very silly one. Kavanaugh is an American, with an American's fighting spirit. He has been though hell to get confirmed; he won't step down.
Peterson is a good liberal fellow, and a Canadian.
He doesn't "get" the US political or social situation, which has fully devolved into insect politics. Kavanaugh quitting won't appease anyone, it would just be the occasion for more propaganda.
Here are a few random observations:
1. In a formulation beloved by the NYT and WaPoo, Ford without evidence accused Kavanaugh of assaulting her 36 years ago (when she finally settled on a year). Collins looked carefully for corroboration in the background checks and found none.
2. Collins did an outstanding job of parsing through the analysis that a senator should make in deciding whether to give assent to an appointment to the Supreme Court. She offered a model for how to get these processes back on track.
3. Murkowski's statement that Kavanaugh is a good man but she is voting against confirmation because he is the wrong man to elevate this time is monstrous because she is letting the slander perpetrated against this good man determine her action. A few Senate pickups by the GOP and Murkowski becomes irrelevant.
4. Unless something changes before the vote, Flake came through, and it probably changes for the worse his future post-Senate. He is one guy who is truly paying a price.
5. My Hero awards go to Graham, Collins, and above all, Kavanaugh. They all came through. Honorable Mention to Flake, who got there in the end, and who probably helped Kavanaugh with the brief and limited supplemental background checks.
Now let's hope it works tomorrow.
The names of "witnesses" that the FBI won't interview were provided by Ford, and Ramirez were not named in their original sworn statements, making their usefulness questionable to start with. Ford and Ramirez identify these individuals as persons that can give contemporaneous accounts of HEARING about the parties in question.
Grassely sent investigators to talk to several and none had 1st hand knowledge, and several were 3rd hand stories.
These are not witnesses, nor are they eligible to give sworn statements, since there is nothing to swear to. (Much like the media Inga is quoting from, unnamed people relaying information they heard from people close to the story.)
BUT if DiFi had not shit in the middle of the committee, their investigators could have done non partisan investigations. Democrats fear actual investigations, so work hard to sabotage the process.
Thanks for the update, iowan2.
The problem with the Believe The Woman cabal is that they and Ford along with the other accusers remind men of their evil, nasty lying bitch of an ex-wife or ex-girlfriend. They see what's happening to Kavanaugh and they remember. The brain trust of the Left razed the ground on the most center moderate judge Trump had on his list, a judge whose ruling as an appellate court judge was the basis for CJ Roberts' deciding vote to uphold Obamacare. Assuming the Senate stays Republican (it probably will) there is a likelihood of at least one more if not two or three appointments more for Trump. Now they are immune to the Left Democrat tactics and won't even attempt to appease the Democrats. Trump will pick the most conservative judges he can find and McConnell will get in touch with his inner Harry Reid and change the rules to a short and to the point up or down vote.
I would say it's upping the game for Kavanaugh to win confirmation, take oath and resign
Trump nominates his third nominee, Dem senators gaming for re-election plans go agley.
If Republicans have learned anything they can prove it again to show spine transplant was successful.
Republican base can reward them for it or not.
We get more drama.
OCTOBER SURPRISE ... Scorch Democrats
“dozens of witnesses have come forward to FBI field offices who say they have information on Brett Kavanaugh, but agents have not been permitted to talk to many of them.”
Inga needs to look up the definition of “witness,” and also of “hearsay,” which is all these non-witnesses had to offer. The FBI didn’t need to waste its time.
Mixed in with the usual unhinged codswollop of NYT commenters there are actually some reasonable observations.
And good for Collins to take the time to explain her vote. Forget the cynicism. It is a gesture of respect for her constituents and her office.
But Judge Kavanaugh doesn't deserve to go through the rest of his life with the "credibly accused of attempted rape" tag. We are giving way too much deference to a woman who can be credibly accused of perjury in this case.
Why do I say that? Changing dates and attendees at the party, denial from the named parties, fear of flying from her lawyers to the committee, the second door for her house was added to support a business and renters not as an escape as she testified, never coached anyone on lie detectors - in fact knew little of lie detectors (with a fairly specific testimony that she did and it can be confirmed if Monica McLean took a lie detector test around this time), didn't know about the committee offer to fly her out, the scrubbed social media and publications may have something in them, the fact that the lawyers won't release the lie dector test or therapist notes to the FBI or to the committee.
Compared to the Devil's triangle, boofed, and ffffff being held against Kavanaugh, the holes in her story and the behaviors of her lawyers (and her friend Monica McLean who apparently asked Leland Keyser to modify her testimony just a little) do not look like there is a creditable accusation here.
Let's learn about our mystery woman and her support cast.
Glenn on Instapundit says
Kavanaugh was a fine, safe pick, but kinda milquetoasty DC Establishment for my taste ....
And it makes me think about what Trump’s game was. I would have rather he picked one of the more libertarian members of his list: Willett, or maybe Kethledge. And because some sort of trumped-up #MeToo thing was almost certain, a lot of people thought he should have picked Amy Coney Barrett. Kavanaugh was a fine, safe pick, but kinda milquetoasty DC Establishment for my taste.
But that was the reason to pick him. Trump knew he’d been vetted enough that there would be no real skeletons, and he no doubt expected that the Democrats would be so desperate they’d invent some. They would have done that with anyone he put up — but, precisely because Kavanaugh was a milquetoasty DC Establishment type, seeing the Democrats go into full batshit assault mode on him galvanized the other milquetoasty DC Establishment types. You could see the lightbulbs go off in their heads: The Democrats don’t hate Trump because he’s Trump. They hate all Republicans and want to ruin them. Even me! And they always will.
buwaya said...
Peterson is a good liberal fellow, and a Canadian.
But he's Canadian with backbone who is fighting and winning against feminists.
Republicans need to learn from Patton who wanted to Carry the fight into Soviet Union but got terminated for it.
Nice move to quote Hamilton. She should've done it as hip-hop, though.
By the way when I was in college in the late 1960s, a slang term for a fart was "boofer".
I am aghast at the nonsense peddled about Kav's high school yearbook. Sheldon Whitehouse was getting messages from Area 51 through his fillings. That is one sad lineup of Dems on the Judiciary Committee. Dick Durbin?? Kamala Harris?? Crazy Mazie?? Aimless Amy?? Sparticus Booker?? DiFi the Deficient??
I would happily bet that there is not a single Senator of either party who sincerely believes that Ford is telling the truth. What we’re seeing is a change of the unwritten rules. Henceforth Supreme Court nominees will only be approved if the party in the White House also has a Senate majority. Another change of norms that Democrats will come to regret.
I'll ask again -- Who the eff is this Jordan Peterson??
He's a professor from Canada.
And why is anyone talking about him?
He refused to bow down to the speech police and refused to use the newly minted "alternative pronouns", which Canadian law mandates. He also savaged a SJW "journalist" on TV. That's besides his best selling books and sold out speaking tours.
Where did he come from all of a sudden?
He's been a thing for the last couple of years now. He's part of a group of people on the Left and Right arguing for free speech, the exchange of ideas and the rejection of political correctness.
And why should I care what he says?
He's a very smart man who has been studying humanity for quite sometime and is able to express himself well both orally and in print. He relies on facts and not emotion. He's the type of person Althouse could be, and I wish she was.
I still think something like Ford described happened to her, but it wasn't done by Brett Kavanaugh, and it didn't have the emotional impact on her that Ford claimed. The way she manipulated that lie detector statement is impossible to explain otherwise. If she made it up whole cloth, then even the manipulated statement is a lie, so I tend believe she wrote in such a way that she could attest to its veracity because it was literally the truth, but then the test has nothing to claim in regards to Kavanaugh because he is not named in the statement even elliptically, nor does the test say she is likely telling the truth about the date- she was only answering to "80s", not early 80s as she had written, then crossed out.
I can’t believe that no one on the left has brought up “Gleichschaltung” yet. They’re losin’ it.
Collins' speech should be a study text for a written exam given all young people engaging in the political process for the first time. And by all means give equal marks to those who *logically* oppose.
DickinB@H is the only one of the lot of you who has steadfastly, right from get-go, called this for what it is - so kudos to her - and ffs the rest of you, don't ever stoop to defend (or 'disprove') the laughable in future - special mention to Yancey.
Whoever the tool is that asked "who is Jordan Peterson" is about as sincere (or as poorly informed) as those supporting CBF - and it is just embarrassing at this point.
And Althouse is maybe naive, or maybe a fool, or probably just happy she got the Amazon clicks. Take your pick. Me - I'd follow the money.
“What we’re seeing is a change of the unwritten rules. Henceforth Supreme Court nominees will only be approved if the party in the White House also has a Senate majority. Another change of norms that Democrats will come to regret.”
No because Republicans are too honorable or stupid or weak (or maybe a bit of each) to play by those rules, even after this. They almost never vote in lockstep like Ds.
"creditably accused" - further proof that the NYT is read by the credentialed rather than the educated.
Around Sept 28th, when the press and Dems were REALLY pushing this hard, the stock market lost about 2%. It seems investors and business people LIKE the Rule of Law and not Witch Trials.
Pretty much everything else seems pretty good in our economy so I would say that this drop is Dem created had more evidence and is far more plausible than anything Ford said.
The killer is that Althouse could have written this exact same thing a week or two ago but inexplicably choose not to.
Now that it's run its course, she does post this.
Ad always my question is 'why'.
Why the Althouse hate? Don't forget they made Socrates drink hemlock.
Socrates was a clever loser stonemason henpecked by his wife who used some tricky rhetorical gimmicks to gin up trouble in Athens for his amusement. His students and adherents were far better than he was, though Plato was a Totalitarian Academic (note how this historically always comes up) and Aristotle was a bit of a sell out.
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