Is she isolating herself to her own detriment? The truth is that although she isn’t the life-of-the-party teenager I expected, she is hauntingly familiar. When I was her age, I hung out mainly with one close friend, color-coded my class notes and never partied or touched trouble...My thoughts, in order: 1. I'd worry about this too, 2. Is this about Kavanaugh? 3. No, not even mentioned! Weird. 4. Humblebragging.
College was an awkward awakening. The first frat party I was lured to, just a few days into freshman year, turned me off from ever attending another one. Nothing bad happened, I just hated the whole scene....
The hidden, unspoken similarity between mother and child unnerves me. Why does she delay drinking, drugs and romantic encounters when she has opportunities to engage? No one guided her to this slow path, and no one is holding her there, at least not that I’m aware of.....
५ ऑक्टोबर, २०१८
"I never thought I’d be urging my daughter to attend parties with drinking, drugs and who knows what else, but..."
"... if she doesn’t experiment now, in the safe space of a nurturing high school and a loving home, won’t she be awkwardly out of step with her peers when she starts college next year?," writes Debby Berman in "I worry my homebody teen is too much like me. But she has something I didn’t at her age" (WaPo).
याची सदस्यत्व घ्या:
टिप्पणी पोस्ट करा (Atom)
पोस्ट्स
१०२ टिप्पण्या:
Nerds go to college and find each other. MIT is FULL of nerds- an entire social scene of them!
Yes, humble bragging. It’s a good thing to raise a child who knows right from wrong without the need to experiment. Even Saint Monica couldn’t do it.
Stop worrying and rejoice! If her daughter wanted to partake of high school partying, she’d be worried more. Let her daughter follow her own path and don’t fret about her in the college scene, she’ll find her own way to deal with the drinking of others. Better that she stays sober to be more fully aware of the pitfalls of drunken idiots and being caught alone with them.
Worrying about your child not getting in trouble is almost the worst worry I can imagine. People have too much time on their hands.
I mean, she actually wrote it out,...
Have your kid do sports in High School. Then drinking/smoking/whatever gets you booted off the team. An incentive not to drink/smoke/whatever.
I (kinda) agree with Inga! Let her alone. She'll be fine...
Is this parody?
For heaven's sake. WaPoo tops itself with stupidity every day.
Hey, lady, your kid's an introvert and is perfectly happy. Why do you want her to be someone she is not and be unhappy? Are you unhappy because you weren't the life of the party? I bet you would not have liked it and couldn't do it anyway.
Inga is 100% right above.
The hidden, unspoken similarity ...
...that you're speaking about because it wasn't hidden.
...between mother and child unnerves me.
I hope the authorette is pretending to be confused, surprised or - unnerved! that sounds dramatic! - by the fact that a kid is somewhat like her mother. Pretending for money, I also hope.
No one guided her to this slow path, and no one is holding her there, at least not that I’m aware of.....
Duh.
Why does she delay drinking, drugs and romantic encounters when she has opportunities to engage?
Maybe she's a sensible girl! Inga is right. This mother is way off base here.
For once I agree 100% with Inga.
rehajm said...
Nerds go to college and find each other. MIT is FULL of nerds- an entire social scene of them!
This. I was socially awkward in high school, with basically no social life. In college ( Carnegie Mellon ) I was above average in terms of social skills, and had all the social life that could be fit into my schedule.
I also agree with Inga. See some people struggle all through life with things from that faster early path and then see if you'd recommend it.
I am right there with Inga. What parent on earth laments their kid negotiating their teen years through smart, mature choices. If she is confident and strong in her choices now, what makes mom think she'll be unable to navigate college by doing the same. Quit undermining your capable, smart, thoughtful daughter, mom.
Does the daughter get space to respond?
The unspoken fear is that the child will grow up to vote republican.
Go buy her a Six-Pack and a pack of Camels if it bothers you so much. And stop by a pot dispensary on the way home while you're at it.
Geez.
"I'd worry about this too"
But would you be free from worry if your kid was partying, drinking and doing drugs and having romantic encounters?
Mothers worry. It's their fate. Fathers too, if they're around. Let this girl be who she is. If she's grown up enough to decide to engage in these behaviors, she's grown up enough to decide not to.
Yet another installment of the WAPO’s continuing series on overparenting.
I hung out at the "cool" parents houses when I was 16-17. They talked like us, understood us, agreed with us that are parents were losers, and didn't understand. Gave a wink and nod to booze and pot. During parties, closed doors were closed for a reason and the parents of the house actively facilitated all of the party. They too said it was better to do it all so we could "mature" with "guidance"
Those free thinking parents messed up a lot of my peers, me included.
Another mother attempting to live vicariously through her child. I am shocked...shocked I tell you!!!
Crack said: Worrying about your child not getting in trouble is almost the worst worry I can imagine. People have too much time on their hands.
Truly said. Her child is not doing the things that many parents fear their children will do....and she is worried that her kid isn't getting drunk and hooking up?
WTF. Is she also worried that her daughter might be a safe driver and hopes that her daughter will get into an auto wreck so she can have the full experience of life and be ready for other auto wrecks?
Geez lady, give it a rest.
Like Inga said. Stop worrying and rejoice! If her daughter wanted to partake of high school partying, she’d be worried more. Let her daughter follow her own path and don’t fret about her in the college scene, she’ll find her own way to deal with the drinking of others. Better that she stays sober to be more fully aware of the pitfalls of drunken idiots and being caught alone with them.
Twice I overheard my parents worrying about my (lack of) social life in HS and soon after college. Seriously unnerving.
I somehow made it through high school and college with no partying, drinking or drugs and I turned out great.
This mother sounds like the Bizarro Carrie mother.
Delve into the bacchanalia now or "they're all gonna laugh at you" in college.
OFF TOPIC
Grassely is ripping Feinstein from the well of Senate, right now.
“Another mother attempting to live vicariously through her child. I am shocked...shocked I tell you!!!”
Yep. It’s amazing the number of middle-aged women who watch teen-fantasy soaps of the 90210 oeuvre. She’s worried that her daughter isn’t the person that she dreamt of being back in high school. Weird, a bit unhealthy, but unsurprising.
The mother's encouragement is probably a major factor in keeping the girl away from parties. Teenagers live by the George Constanza do the opposite rule.
And Deep state player Kaufman is McLean lawyer.
“Blogger rhhardin said...
I somehow made it through high school and college with no partying, drinking or drugs and I turned out great.”
It’s this kind of bone-dry humor that makes rhhardin an Althousian treasure.
You are only young once. Lost opportunities to experiment and try things are often lost forever. Trying something does not mean you have to keep doing it, but not trying it can mean you never will know if that might have been worth a try. Parents these days usually over-value safety, as does most of the culture now to the detriment of a full life and the production of a dependent, weak next generation. Nearly all my regrets in life are lost opportunities to try more, do more, live more. I need an entire second lifetime just to try half of what I missed, and I've experimented a lot.
It's important to expose kids to lots of different things and let them try stuff out to see what they like. Being very social/partying can be a part of that, sure. I regret not making more connections and/or partying in that way, myself so I understand the mother's instinct. But it sounds like the daughter is making the choice to not be more outgoing. If the daughter has chosen that it'd be wrong to force her to conform to the mother's idea of what a young person's life should be like.
The mother should discuss her concerns with her daughter in an honest way and include examples from the mother's own life and experiences. The mother should likewise be honest with the daughter about her expectations--something like "you know it's not the end of the world if you stay out late once in a while, as long as you're safe and I know where you are." Other than that the mother should respect her daughter's lifestyle choices and find other ways to encourage openmindedness.
[I know a lot about how parenting should be done; I have no children.]
I was neither well-behaved nor a wildman in my youth, and if I had it to do over, I'd both work harder AND get crazier.
it's a sad state of affairs, when Igna is forced to say things that make sense :)
Interesting that the mother talks about her daughter "delaying" booze, drugs and romantic encounters, by which I assumes she means casual sex, as if they are inevitable. Many college kids don't engage in any of those things. Maybe that's the kind of behaviour she should be encouraging in her daughter, who seems to be inclined in that direction anyway.
And please. No lectures about how "everyone does it". It just isn't true.
One of the great things about having kids today is you actually get some real world insight into “kids today”. And they’re not all graceless slugs, not even close. There are tons of amazing kids accomplishing amazing shit, all while be true to themselves. And yes, we probably would have scorned them in our late ‘70’s high school.
In both junior high and high school I had one foot in the social scene and one foot in a more cerebral one. As I became pregnant and married in my senior year of HS and divorced shortly thereafter, I had, as a mother, more responsibilities than the average college student and, though I did date, partying was fairly limited. A close friend who joined a sorority went totally Bacchanalia in college. For some, the Greek traditions are a kind of rite of passage much like the Amish rumspringa. It is an unfortunate waste of Mom & Dad's money, IMO, but it is what it is.
Hey lady - do you really have the nurturing home for your kid (that you claim) if you're pushing her to go out and get wasted and laid?
it's a sad state of affairs, when Igna is forced to say things that make sense :)
As they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day. ;-)
>>I hung out at the "cool" parents houses when I was 16-17. They talked like us, understood us, agreed with us that are parents were losers, and didn't understand. Gave a wink and nod to booze and pot. During parties, closed doors were closed for a reason and the parents of the house actively facilitated all of the party. They too said it was better to do it all so we could "mature" with "guidance"
But they drew the line at cigarettes, I assume...
Speaking of movies, the mother might be worried about a "Looking for Mr. Goodbar" scenario. But as others have said, she's way off base. And bragging, not even so humbly.
"Nearly all my regrets in life are lost opportunities to try more, do more, live more."
I regret how long it took me to realize that getting drunk means throwing up at night and having a headache the next day.
I regret how long it took me to realize that pot was releasing mumbling, not creativity.
I regret how many times I listened to guys urging me to try more, do more, live more. They were without exception charmless and incompetent which is why they had to use argument.
“it's a sad state of affairs, when Inga is forced to say things that make sense :)”
And let it never be said again that liberal women don’t get married and have children and/or are not good parents.
even a broken clock is right twice a day
Stopped clock. A broken clock can be off all day. I had a car clock that never failed to run 2 minutes slow--and no slower.
for me, it was the other way around-- I was the one worried that my parents werent getting out more.
I was terrified someday they would easily sail thru their senate confirmation hearings,
and no kid wants that.
It's no fun to rebel against complicit parents. Even in the 70's I knew parents who smoked pot with their kids. Their kids treated them with contempt for trying to be cool.
I once was seated on a long airplane flight next to a big mouthed middle age man and his younger female co-worker. He opined that he could not tell his kids not to use drugs because he had done them himself. He didn't want to be a hypocrite.
I wanted to punch him.
Here was a father who didn't want to help his kids avoid mistakes that he had made in the past. It made me sick.
As the flight went on, I lost track of the amount of alcohol he consumed, until the flight attendants wouldn't serve him anymore. I strongly suspected that drug use was something that was not just confined to his youth. And he was clearly trying to get into his young co-worker's pants.
It them hit me that he would feel affirmed in his own life if his kids turned out just like him.
What a piece of shit.
Unknown said...
I need an entire second lifetime just to try half of what I missed, and I've experimented a lot.
People around here seem to be investing an entire lifetime in an experiment with opioids. Maybe the mom can score her daughter some of those...
rhhardin said...
"I somehow made it through high school and college with no partying, drinking or drugs and I turned out great."
Yeah, right. As often as you mention blacks supposedly having an IQ of 86, I'd say - and Neal deGrasse Tyson would probably agree with me - you have an untreated, but recurring nervous "tic" you don't acknowledge (maybe based in racial insecurity) that's plainly evident to others.
And, last time I checked, that's just the kind of feature that don't make one "great."
Don't be the cool parent.
The absurdity here is that the less kids party in college, statistically, the further they tend to go in life. And, yes, the later that females, in particular, have sex, the more likely they are to ultimately receive an undergraduate degree. You really don’t want your daughters experimenting with sex before college, unless, of course, you want grandchildren while the parents of the daughters who did not experiment in high school (or earlier) are going to college graduations, and then attend marriages to guys who also have college degrees).
For some, the Greek traditions are a kind of rite of passage much like the Amish rumspringa.
I joined a fraternity because, in those days, it was the cheapest place to live. There was plenty of social life but that was before drugs got into middle class life. Drugs were something bums on the street did, not kids or adults who had moral lives.
At the time, dorms were for girls and football players.
If her daughter isn't out there drinking and partying now, the girl will never have the opportunity to accuse a future SCOTUS nominee of sexually assaulting her. If she boozes it up in hs and behaves irresponsibly enough, she just might be able to don the leftist victim/hero mantle 36 years from now and end up with book deals, a fawning media fan club and a nice fat check from GoFundMe. However, she's got to remember to accuse only conservatives. Nobody on the left will care if she's assaulted by a liberal. Keith Ellison could punch out his girlfriend in the middle of Mall of America during lunch hour and the leftists would shrug it off.
Yeah, right. As often as you mention blacks supposedly having an IQ of 86,
US blacks, and average IQ. Sub-Saharan Africa average is in the 60s.
https://iq-research.info/en/average-iq-by-country
Bullshit self-esteem parenting approach designed to have a "failure to launch" result. we created an environment of standards and performance that motivated the kids to leave home and never look back. We get calls all the time thanking us for being asshole parents.
When my daughter was in high school, it was obvious that there would be parties and that she might/would go to them. Being in a rural area, many of the parties in the summer (best time) would be in favorite meeting spots in the woods, by a stream...outdoors. Cell phones were not as common then, but even so, there was likely not any cell range.
I'm realistic. I know that "things" happen and never expected a Nun for a daughter.
We had talks about "getting yourself in trouble". How those things can turn out. Discussion about some of the mistakes and danger that I had put myself in at her age. About, protecting yourself. Going with friends and watching each other for safety. Not drinking to excess. I'm not naive to think there would be no drinking. My daughter having seen the results of her alcoholic father's lifestyle was aware of the danger of excess in drinking AND drugs....... And that IF she was in trouble and wanted me or my husband to come and pick her up, we would do it without judgement or lectures. Safety was more important than being right.
You do your best and hope the worst never happens.
My one stipulation was that she learn to drive a car and a truck with a manual transmission in order to get her license. She didn't want to because it was easier with an automatic transmission. Tough shit! You will learn this way. Because...." If you are stuck somewhere....maybe your ride/driver is too drunk to drive or you just fee unsafe and your only way get out is to drive your friend's truck or car yourself. At least you will be able to do it. PLUS...I was going to give you my Honda Prelude with the 5 speed transmission and sunroof. (really cool car back then) So if you want that car, you need to know how to drive it"
A little bribery never hurts :-)
Right Freeman: The cool parents have the slackerest kids who end up barista after failing Community College
Blogger Inga...Allie Oop said...
“it's a sad state of affairs, when Inga is forced to say things that make sense :)”
And let it never be said again that liberal women don’t get married and have children and/or are not good parents.
Inga: I get the impression you are personally very conservative, but get labeled a lefty leftard by the althouse trumpsters because you don't hate minorities, immigrants, the gay, the trans, the poor, and the environment. Oh and also, you think objects shouldn't be treated like women, so there's that defect too.
dorms were for girls and football players.
I thought all the jocks joined Sigma Nu.
"I somehow made it through high school and college with no partying, drinking or drugs and I turned out great."
Crack, I think rhhardin was being ironic.
get labeled a lefty leftard by the althouse trumpsters because you don't hate minorities, immigrants, the gay, the trans, the poor, and the environment. Oh and also, you think objects shouldn't be treated like women, so there's that defect too.
Yet another left winger with nothing to offer but proof of his assholeness.
We believe!
"Inga: I get the impression you are personally very conservative, but get labeled a lefty leftard by the althouse trumpsters because you don't hate minorities, immigrants, the gay, the trans, the poor, and the environment. Oh and also, you think objects shouldn't be treated like women, so there's that defect too."
Howard--That's a pretty stupid comment. Inga is very clear about what she believes, and she doesn't need you speak for her. Your little list is silly. I don't hate all those things, nor do most people here, and I am as much a right-wing nut as anyone.
What's the matter with you? Is this really the way you see the world?
Sad.
Ann Althouse said...
"2. Is this about Kavanaugh? 3. No, not even mentioned! Weird."
Like all things WaPo these days, it's about Trump. That's always the subtext.
Yeah, right. As often as you mention blacks supposedly having an IQ of 86,
US blacks, and average IQ. Sub-Saharan Africa average is in the 60s.
IQ, and racial disparities in IQ, are the most researched and verified part of the social "sciences". The research has been consistent over time and when accounting for cultural differences. The facts about IQ are unpleasant, and how to deal with their implications unclear, but they are undeniable.
And let it never be said again that liberal women don’t get married and have children and/or are not good parents.
True that. It's feminist women who don’t get married and have children and/or are not good parents.
I have always been troubled by our society's increasing treating of teenagers with kid gloves, but I think this particular mother is probably worrying for no good reason- if she got through the lack of "experience", then it is likely her daughter will to. It doesn't sound like the daughter is being restrained by the rules of the parents, and fighting against them. It sounds like the daughter has her head screwed on right already.
"If her daughter isn't out there drinking and partying now, the girl will never have the opportunity to accuse a future SCOTUS nominee of sexually assaulting her. If she boozes it up in hs and behaves irresponsibly enough, she just might be able to don the leftist victim/hero mantle 36 years from now and end up with book deals, a fawning media fan club and a nice fat check from GoFundMe. However, she's got to remember to accuse only conservatives. Nobody on the left will care if she's assaulted by a liberal. Keith Ellison could punch out his girlfriend in the middle of Mall of America during lunch hour and the leftists would shrug it off."
LOL!
DBQ, I offered to let my 17 yo niece try my automatic in a parking lot (her parents have sticks), but she didn't even have a learners (wouldn't take the test). I used your reasoning with her dad, but I haven't heard anything more. I badly wanted to drive before I was 12, so her attitude is freakish to me.
I taught my daughter to shoot handguns, rifles and shotguns, and took her to Taekwondo, starting at age 9. Instilling knowledge, responsible behavior, and useful skills is a helluva lot better than saying, "Go out and try underage drinking, see how it goes!" When she started driving, I made her change a tire in our driveway, so she knew both how and that she could. When she started dating, we discussed proper and improper social behavior, and why improper behavior leads to serious problems.
Same for my son.
Oddly enough, neither had problems associated with low self esteem, ignorance of social norms, or misbehavior towards others as they grew into the admirable and capable adults they are now.
But hey, I remember the guy in grad school who called freshman females his "baby seals." He'd go to dance clubs, buy the underaged girls a few drinks, dance with them, and often have one night stands with them. He called it "clubbing the baby seals."
So, its better to have sex, drink and take drugs when you're a minor as opposed to an Adult?
Bascially, what's she saying is Women in College are still Little girls.
My daughter didn't do any of that, because my wife would've smashed her into little atoms.
Tiger mothers - grrrr...
"Weird" is putting it mildly; I pity the daughter because mom's medications aren't working.
gahrie contends: The facts about IQ are unpleasant, and how to deal with their implications unclear, but they are undeniable.
There is a valid argument to be made in how IQ tests are administered cross-culturally.
When she started driving, I made her change a tire in our driveway, so she knew both how and that she could.
A famous kidnapping case in California began with a young woman having a flat tire on the freeway near where I used to live.
Huber was last seen alive about 2 a.m. on June 3, 1991, when she dropped off a friend in Huntington Beach after attending a rock concert at the Forum in Inglewood. Her 1988 Honda Accord was later found on a shoulder along the Corona del Mar Freeway, with a flat tire.
The killer in this bizarre story was a house painter who had painted a whole bunch of doctors' houses in my area. He was pretty well known in the area.
The first frat party I was lured to
Note the lack of agency implied here.
Blogger mockturtle said...
dorms were for girls and football players.
I thought all the jocks joined Sigma Nu.
Nope, I knew bunch Sigma Nus. You may have meant Sigma Chi, which John Wayne was a member of in the 1920s.
Actually, the only two men's dorms were for the Band and the freshman football team.
mockturtle said...
"Crack, I think rhhardin was being ironic."
I hope so, but being backed-up by Gahrie doesn't help him. (Every time Charles Murray shows up somewhere, David Duke ain't far behind him, either. I know - coinkidink).
Sigh. What would a black person's life be like without being descended from slavery, and surrounded by antagonistic white people?
Except for a brief stop in Thailand, I will never know, over the course of my entire lifetime. Not in America.
Y'all fascinated by us like we're Lucky Charms.
Michael K asserts: Nope, I knew bunch Sigma Nus. You may have meant Sigma Chi, which John Wayne was a member of in the 1920s.
I'm pretty sure that, at the U of WA in the mid-to-late 60's it was Sigma Nu. It was definitely the party fraternity.
Why isn't everyone's second thought, if not the very first: "This mother *votes*?????"
Re iowan2's off-topic report: imagine the humor to be had and taking 'ripping' literally!
10/5/18, 8:41 AM
A child resembles one of the parents, temperamentally? #IAmShockedSHOCKED to hear that.
Whole damn country's gone crazy.
The Hugh Hefner if-it-feels-good-do-it generation harvests its sexual dialectic, and the dialectical conflict is not resulting in the desired synthesis. It's why postmodern morality sucks: just when you think you've got a conformity that you can live with, the victims of the libertinism kick ass.
Now, in the good old USSR the elitists would announce the search for a new Soviet Man and an accompanying Woman, and a few million murders later no one would talk about it anymore.
LOL.
What would a black person's life be like without being descended from slavery
Most of contemporary Africa?
At the risk of being rude: what a stupid bint. Let your daughter be herself. Don't try to be the "cool parent" getting her into "the scene."
Michael K asserts: Nope, I knew bunch Sigma Nus. You may have meant Sigma Chi, which John Wayne was a member of in the 1920s.
I'm pretty sure that, at the U of WA in the mid-to-late 60's it was Sigma Nu. It was definitely the party fraternity.
I was referring to USC. The Fijis, my fraternity, at U Dub were a good house but I don't remember hearing about jocks.
Of course, I'm sure using the term"Fiji" for Phi Gamma Delta is racist. Gorsuch was a Fiji.
Sigma Nus at SC were best known for being at the end of The Row so all water balloon fights ended up at their house.
There is a valid argument to be made in how IQ tests are administered cross-culturally.
Actually there isn't. Researchers have controlled for culture. A famous case had a researcher test Whites and Blacks attending university in South Africa. The results were consistent. Today many IQ tests are non-verbal to forestall this argument.
gerry said...
"Most of contemporary Africa?"
No - what is it going to take for white folks' minds to stop running off to Africa every time I talk about blacks in America? It's an amazing mental tic.
I don't think you understand the black American experience, cut off from Africa - from a past - by slavery. I'm asking what it's like to be an AMERICAN (which is almost all I think about) but, without y'all breathing down our necks? Is anybody discussing you today? Are there conferences going on about what to do with you today? What your IQ is? What "plantation" you're on or demands you get off it - whether it suits your needs or not - and don't forget your music isn't music, and all the rest? Is that your life?
If not - what's that like?
Is anybody discussing you today? Are there conferences going on about what to do with you today?
Actually for us old, white men there are a crap load of them, all coming from the hard left.
It's time we learned from AA's that when you are on the receiving end of live fire you hunker down and return fire.
“Inga: I get the impression you are personally very conservative, but get labeled a lefty leftard by the althouse trumpsters because you don't hate minorities, immigrants, the gay, the trans, the poor, and the environment. Oh and also, you think objects shouldn't be treated like women, so there's that defect too.”
Howard, you’re close, but not exactly. I’m a liberal mom, I told my older teen daughters that if they were going to have sex, they should let me know so I could take them to get birth control. I didn’t fool myself that they wouldn’t party, or have sex, or make mistakes, but I did tell them very bluntly what the consequences in their lives would be if they jumped into those things foolishly. All three of my daughters did do some partying in senior year and in college. I’ll honestly say that if I had a daughter, or son who wasn’t into high school partying I would’ve been relieved and grateful! By the time they are teens are pretty much going to do what they want when you’re not around, hopefully they choose wisely and come out of the teen years into adulthood safely.
By the time they are teens are pretty much going to do what they want when you’re not around, hopefully they choose wisely and come out of the teen years into adulthood safely.
Right again, Inga! I'm sure most parents are relieved--and possibly surprised--when their teens turn into responsible, reasonable adults.
Girls cannot be expected to be rational and reasonable and should not be expected to practice rights and responsibilities. It's been a social progression with victims and collateral damage, not limited to girls.
“Right again, Inga! I'm sure most parents are relieved--and possibly surprised--when their teens turn into responsible, reasonable adults.”
Indeed I am relieved. It was my 2nd oldest daughter that is now responsible wonderful woman, a conservative along with her husband ( who is a great guy) who was the biggest partier of my four kids in high school and is now the mom of my 18 year old granddaughter who is the opposite of her mom. Serious and sweet, a freshman in the U of Minn.
Crack, you doofus:
His point was *obviously* that, absent slavery in the new world, far fewer Africans would have ended up here. Including the hypothetical you, in that scenario.
So you are a commie, Inga ;)
Every year some number of American high school and college students die from too much alcohol, or as I call it, from too little alcohol.
They don't learn to drink from their parents, or in their company, but from other jackass teens who don't know what they're doing. And the sheltered kid, maybe the homeschooled, the one who seems innocent, is going to be a target for those who want to show him the ropes, or who think it's funny to watch him get wasted. I know that from observation and experience. Even after I'd had some experience with drinking I still seemed to put out an innocent vibe, so I was often targeted for that kind of pressure. I really disliked alcohol, but learned to drink socially and moderately, until I gave it up altogether.
In other cultures, whole families go to parties together, and they learn how to drink responsibly. True, sometimes the young folks get together for their own parties, or after/side parties, and they probably have plenty of opportunity for risky business, but adolescent-only parties seem to be almost the only kind American teens have, and they are not a good way to learn to be responsible.
Of course, nobody goes to a party to "be responsible", but I think Americans tend to fall into party animal, nerd, and loner tracks, and other cultures seem to do a better job of integrating the whole. I'm basing this on my own experience with my abstemious middle-American family, the party culture I found in my larger community, and with Mexicans, so I don't know how universal it is.
Inga states: I told my older teen daughters that if they were going to have sex, they should let me know so I could take them to get birth control.
While agreeing with most of your statements on this subject I don't think I would do this [in fact, did not]. It would seem as though I was approving of their behavior. While parents can often overlook their teens' indiscretions, it's sometimes best to act surprised and hurt when confronted with bad news. JMHO, of course. ;-)
As I've reported before [ad nauseam], when I became pregnant with my first and only sex partner [who became my first husband, albeit briefly] my parent were quite upset, of course. My mother pleaded wanted me to fly to Japan immediately for an abortion but my father agreed we should marry [we both wanted to] and have the baby [I thank God for my daughter!!!]. No regrets. None.
Kirk Parker said...
Crack, you doofus:
His point was *obviously* that, absent slavery in the new world, far fewer Africans would have ended up here. Including the hypothetical you, in that scenario.
So? - I didn't ask for a head count - what would that life have been like for those who did?
Damn, y'all slow sometimes.
“While agreeing with most of your statements on this subject I don't think I would do this [in fact, did not]. It would seem as though I was approving of their behavior. While parents can often overlook their teens' indiscretions, it's sometimes best to act surprised and hurt when confronted with bad news. JMHO, of course. ;-)”
Mockturtle, I’ve always been very honest with my children. I didnt expect them to be perfect angels because they are human as we all were when we were teens. Of course my parents let my sister and I know they disapproved of sex before marriage, but did that stop us? No. It didn’t stop you, realistically it doesn’t stop many young women and teens. Being a realist I knew it probably wouldn’t stop my own offspring either. Of course I told them it was a bad idea and to wait, but if they were hell bent on it anyway, don’t get pregnant, so get on birth control. Don’t be promiscuous because you’ll get an STD and it’s trashy. Yes I spoke bluntly to my kids, no hold barred.
Not one of my kids had children before marriage and no abortions, which would’ve broken my heart.
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