This alignment of certain Asians with whites evokes historical instances of ethnic groups migrating from minority status to becoming part of the majority racial group. Sociologists have a name for this phenomenon: “whitening.” It refers to the way the white race has expanded over time to swallow up those previously considered non-whites, such as people of Irish, Italian, and Jewish heritage. In the next wave of whitening, some sociologists have theorized, Asians and Latinos could begin to vanish into whiteness, as some assimilate culturally into white norms and culture, and become treated and seen by whites as fellow whites. “The idea of who is white and which groups belong and don’t belong to it has been malleable and has changed. It is different across place and time,” Jonathan Warren, a University of Washington sociology professor who has written about whitening, told me....I don't think it's fair to say that the lawsuit is "some Asian-Americans... aligning themselves with white people." The plaintiffs are showing that Asian-Americans are, because of race, being treated worse than white people. And they're hearing the argument that for them to succeed will require other non-whites to lose out. So why don't they back off and accept the worse treatment? Just be nice.
I’ve always been proud of my Taiwanese roots, but lately, I’ve started to question how much of my culture I’ve voluntarily released in the effort to belong in a country dominated by white people. American society is built around what white people like and don’t like. They decide which foreign foods are “in” (bubble tea, burritos) and what’s “gross” or “exotic” (menudo, say, or marinated pig ears). American standards for acceptable behavior—the way people talk, the language they use, the food they eat in a mainstream company—are carefully tailored to the tastes of white people. It makes sense. White people run the country and the vast majority of its institutions. They hold most of the wealth. Perhaps it shouldn’t be surprising that some Asian-Americans are aligning themselves with white people when it comes to university admissions. Appealing to white taste, after all, is a baseline requirement for advancement. But at what price?
Which actually, ironically, sounds like a demand that they act white.
Posts
252 comments:
1 – 200 of 252 Newer› Newest»Goffman studied what the tastes were that nobody consciously noticed. That was sociology. He studied only Asians who blended in. Unaccepted Asian customs would already be noticeable and have no need for a sociologist.
Other than that sociology has no expertise.
It used to be called "The Melting pot" and was considered Patriotic.
But since the Democrats don't want that, we need to maintain ethnic hostility.
After all, you can't have machine politics, and play "Divide and Conquer" if you don't have identity politics.
Another day, another sin as a white man that I find I'm guilty of.
Your Honor, I plead guilty of never even that people ate marinated pig ears, and having no desire to try them.
Pig ears are sold as dog treats.
It makes sense. White people run the country and the vast majority of its institutions. They hold most of the wealth.
They left out the most important fact: White people are over 70% of the population. Perhaps that is why they " run the country and the vast majority of its institutions" and "hold most of the wealth".
So why don't they back off and accept the worse treatment? Just be nice. Which actually, ironically, sounds like a demand that they act white.
Don't look now, but White people are getting pretty tired of being treated worse. Especially while they are still being told how racist and deplorable they are/ as they do so.
A Radio Taiwan cooking show started by saying that Chinese and Western ideas of what's edible differ considerably.
Apparently Ms. Kuo is unfamiliar with the jump in prices that tripe has undergone due to the rising popularity of menudo, often putting it outside of the price range of the people in the lower socio-economic strata that created the dish? Does she also want pig ears to get popular so that the poor can no longer afford that either? Does she not understand that these dishes were created in the first place because that particular meat item was often discarded and thus cheap? What does she have against poor people?
Anyway, her rhetorical acrobatics are what you get when you treat people primarily as members of identity groups, not as individuals. It’s a frustrating mess for those of us who actually believe in Martin Luther King’s dream.
She should go to Asia and stay a while.
Then come back and reconsider what is "white".
This piece is what comes of attending an American university.
When were Irish not considered White?
The Irish and Italians were always White, but just not liked by WASPs.
And Judaism is a religion. Not a race.
What an idiot.
This is the first time I have been accused of swallowing up non-whites.
David Begley said...
When were Irish not considered White?
The Irish and Italians were always White, but just not liked by WASPs.
And Judaism is a religion. Not a race.
What an idiot.
9/1/18, 9:43 AM
---
Ahahahahahaha! The pickings are easy this morning. This thread is surely going to bring some hum-dingers out.
It's not my fault so many Asians are lactose intolerant.
Sociology reduces humankind to cold statistical data. It's NOT a science. Its findings are useful for politicians, social engineers and professional malcontents looking for their next outrage.
Irish not White? Jews not White? Hispanic (if born in Spain or of now New World Indian) not White? She is an Idjt.
Why would white people swallow up Asians but not native Americans?
Wait. I've got it. Acting white means not trying to rob and murder people so much.
I thought Menudo was Puerto Rican.
When we decide to defund all sociology, it will be listed as an attack on education and not because of idiotic crap like this.
An interesting essay on the origin of the term "White Privilege."
In other words, Peggy McIntosh was born into the very cream of America’s aristocratic elite, and has remained ensconced there ever since. Her ‘experiential’ list enumerating the ways in which she benefits from being born with white skin simply confuses racial privilege with the financial advantages she has always been fortunate enough to enjoy. Many of her points are demonstrably economic. One is left to wonder why, given her stated conviction that she has unfairly benefited from her skin color, there seems to be no record of her involvement in any charity or civil rights work. If she did take to the streets in support of some cause or other, she left no trace that I can see. Nor, as far as I can tell, has she spent any time teaching the underprivileged or working directly to better anyone’s condition but her own. Instead, she has contented herself with a generous six figure salary, and has not shown any particular eagerness to hand her position over to a more deserving person of color.
This is where all the Trump hate is coming from. People who are privileged, not by skin color, but by the accomplishments of their parents and grandparents. And, of course, from those who follow their lead.
Does anyone think Obama's kids are discriminated against ?
If other minorities are getting special treatment, of course Asians will align with the majority.
Since white folks go around swallowing up other races, but no one swallows up white folks, shouldn't the white race be called "first people"?
It'd be terrible not to have sociology as a so-called "study" the existence of which enables incompetents and other self-inflated boobs to string the letters "PhD" after their names and insist that the rest of us address them as "Doctor." Others include anyone - anyone - who has a PhD in "education" (gag) or any other "study" (gay, latino. black, african, LGBTTIQQ2SA, and more). A study in BLT-Making however I might be willing to tolerate so long as they make me one for immediate consumption.
"... raising complex questions about identity and privilege..."
It's "complex" in the sense that Ptolemaic mechanisms had to become more and more complex to fit all the data into the existing model.
Someone needs to tell people like Ms. Kuo that simpler, better, more accurate models are now available.
"Sociologists have a name for this phenomenon: 'whitening.' It refers to the way the white race has expanded over time to swallow up those previously considered non-whites, such as people of Irish, Italian, and Jewish heritage."
It's nice to see someone acknowledge that sociology is not only prone to making up theories with no purchase in reality, but making up history to fit the made up theories.
I wonder how many "educated" younger people these days (as well as people old enough to know better) believe this "fake history".
It's remarkable what you can get "educated" people to believe.
"[McIntosh] has contented herself with a generous six figure salary, and has not shown any particular eagerness to hand her position over to a more deserving person of color."
A neat sleight of hand. McIntosh primarily benefited from class and economic privilege – which she could fairly easily personally redistribute, had she a mind to – but re-cast it as racial privilege, which through no fault of her own she was stuck with, and just couldn't do much about by her own little self.
American standards ... are carefully tailored.
I think it's fair to say that in the 20th century German-Americans were better people or, at the very least, less misguided than German Germans. Isn't it possible to say the same thing about Chinese-Americans? Maybe they should surrender part of their culture and heritage to America.........I've eaten in Chinatown. I see these old guys park the rice bowl directly around their chin and use chopsticks to feed the rice into their mouth in a conveyor belt motion. Very unedifying to observe. Perhaps western eating utensils are superior to chopsticks. What are you really giving up if you use a knife and fork to eat with.
Skin whitening agents are popular in SE Asia.
Maybe "whitening" is just "Americaning". Maybe it really has nothing to do with being white.
Michael K quotes somebody on Peggy McIntosh:
"One is left to wonder why, given her stated conviction that she has unfairly benefited from her skin color, there seems to be no record of her involvement in any charity or civil rights work. If she did take to the streets in support of some cause or other, she left no trace that I can see. Nor, as far as I can tell, has she spent any time teaching the underprivileged or working directly to better anyone’s condition but her own."
The population of people like Peggy McIntosh is large enough to launch a study to answer the question: "Hustler, mentally ill, or mentally-ill hustler?"
(Another study would be needed for the people who fall for her hustle: "Stupid, having mental health issues, or stupid with mental health issues?")
William asserts: Perhaps western eating utensils are superior to chopsticks.
Not so. It depends on what one is eating.
Interesting to note that we're back to groupthink.
Iris Kuo should read Andrea Chu :
“If we focus on this one case, these details, this accuser and accused, we will miss the opportunity to think about the structural issues,” wrote Duggan. This was code. It meant, “You can talk about structural issues all you want, so long as you don’t use examples of people we know.”
Kuo takes the role of Duggan. Who cares if an actual injustice has occurred when you can talk about structure issues?
@ William
Sociologists call that "forkening".
The great thing about white dominance is that it is organic to mankind. It sprouted from mankind like the arts and sciences, beginning around 1500 AD. It is purely natural, like male dominance. God, what a great time this is to be a white male! Unless there is a war or something.
"simpler, better, more accurate models are now available."
E.g., to a first approximation, everyone is going to try to fight for advantages for their own perceived ethnic or cultural in-group.
The idea seems to have risen among the bien-pensant Powers That Be that a stable Western culture can be created by giving designated minority groups free rein to claw for every advantage possible, while simultaneously beating the majority culture into submission; see this article for an example of this thinking. I highly doubt the long-term stability of this program.
What do sociologists call it in other countries? Yellowing? Browning?
It’s like the rest of the world doesn’t exist. Or minorities in other countries don’t “when in Rome.”
Isn't much of the point of articles like this confusing "being in the majority" with "being white"? She says "American standards for acceptable behavior—the way people talk, the language they use, the food they eat in a mainstream company—are carefully tailored to the tastes of white people." But it's not like we white people got to vote on these things!
The vast majority of my dad's family were already in the Lake Erie to Lake Huron area by 1870 or so. But much of the food he would have eaten as a child has fallen out of favor, to be replaced with things his parents would literally have never eaten -- things like pizza, even vaguely authentic Mexican or Chinese food, or worst of all, sushi. If Dad wanted to fit in, he wouldn't try to order, say, muskrat at a restaurant, even though it's an eastern Michigan tradition going back at least a generation or two before him, which he would eagerly eat at a big festival dinner at least once a year.
What I'm saying here is, this has nothing to do with being white, it's all about going along with the majority, at least if you want public acceptance. Because in the US the majority is white, it looks like it's a white thing, but it's really a basic human thing about trying to fit in with majority tastes, and bringing race into it just muddles the picture. (Interesting question whether people are trying to intentionally muddle the picture.)
My mother's family, including her brother, were Irish miners working for many generations in the dark dank from Pennsylvania to Colorado to Montana to Idaho. Those who lived long enough to see it were really delighted when Protestants finally deigned to accept them as white. It's meant the world to all of us down the years, really it has.
We're pleased to welcome Asians to our self-absorbed, snotty, elite in-group. Well done, Asians!
As somebody married to a Taiwanese, with a mixed daughter, what Tripe.
Most Asian Americans get ahead by working their butts off, not due to the color of their skin. Their are some born into wealth, but most are not.
My wife’s cousins Mother worked doing piece work, his Father in a restaurant, he delivered flyers for a real estate company in high school to help. He got a law degree from Berkeley and got a big law job. He was not privileged.
Taiwanese roots? Would that be Malaysian Taiwanese aborigines, southern Chinese, Nationalist Chinese, or (horreurs!) Japanese?
What would we do without sociologists?
We'd be reading different fake news, er, fake science, er, general fakery.
previously considered non-whites, ...Irish, Italian, and Jewish
The Volokh Conspiracy Analysis
Sorry, but the Irish were always ‘white’ (and so were Italians, Jews and so on)
"If you use such objective tests [marriage, union membership], you find that Irish, Jews, Italians and other white ethnics were indeed considered white by law and by custom (as in the case of labor unions)."
Anti-Irish sentiment
"I am haunted by the human chimpanzees I saw along that hundred miles of horrible country...to see white chimpanzees is dreadful; if they were black one would not see it so much, but their skins, except where tanned by exposure, are as white as ours." -- Letter from Ireland.
"Most ... get ahead by working their butts off, not due to the color of their skin. Their are some born into wealth, but most are not."
Hey, they're just like white people!
Among the institutions controlled by whites are Ivy League Universities. Those must be the good whites. The ones that are articulate and bright and clean.
Ann,
"I don't think it's fair to say that the lawsuit is "some Asian-Americans... aligning themselves with white people.""
Neither do I, considering how excited racist Right-Wing whites are to find allies in their fight against Affirmative-Action. It's racist Right-Wing whites expanding who they think is like them, as they position themselves as the ever-elusive "victims" (they claim don't exist elsewhere) not the other way around.
"The plaintiffs are showing that Asian-Americans are, because of race, being treated worse than white people."
Who isn't?
"And they're hearing the argument that for them to succeed will require other non-whites to lose out."
That is what racist Right-Wing whites are trying to accomplish by destroying Affirmative-Action. I like how you've got it all flipped around.
"So why don't they back off and accept the worse treatment? Just be nice."
Or see through what racist Right-Wing whites are trying to do and do something else.
"Which actually, ironically, sounds like a demand that they act white."
That should be your hint you've got it backwards.
In my early days in this country, I was more than once informed how disgusting it was to see me cutting up and eating my dinner in the European manner - fork in my left hand and knife in the right. So, not wishing to offend (or rather to stand out and be criticized), I practised doing it the American way.
Gahrie said...
"They left out the most important fact:" White people killed, enslaved, disenfranchised, and ripped-off lots of people.
"American society is built around what white people like and don’t like."
When white people were building societies they really should have built them around what culturally alien people on the other side of the world liked and didn't like.
I really appreciate that, if I moved to any other country in the world, the majority-population in that country would then re-structure their society to my tastes and culture rather boorishly continuing to live according to their own cultural lights.
An interesting essay on the origin of the term "White Privilege."
If Michael K says so, it can't be anything but a snow job.
Protestants finally deigned to accept them as white
They were covered in coal dust, so of course we thought they were Black Irish.
Skin whitening agents are popular in SE Asia.
All the Brown and Black (and many of the Yellow) people of the world spend billions of dollars on products to whiten their skin and straighten their hair while the White people of the world spend billions to brown their skin and curl their hair.
They left out the most important fact:" White people killed, enslaved, disenfranchised, and ripped-off lots of people.
Yeah..those are uniquely White sins...no one in the world ever did such things besides White people, and certainly no one non-White is doing those things today.
The left really does hate assimilation and views rubbing racial differences raw as the means to prevent it.
...Asians and Latinos could begin to vanish into whiteness, as some assimilate culturally into white norms and culture, and become treated and seen by whites as fellow whites.
It's wild how racist Right-Wing whites take a subject, none of them understand, and yet, they still confidently comment on it, to the hilarity of everyone else - until we remember they're racist Right-Wing whites and they believe their own bullshit and can't be talked out of it like cultists - and then their stupid assumptions get scary.
Alex Jones supporters. You never know.
An interesting essay on the origin of the term "White Privilege."
If Michael K says so, it can't be anything but a snow job.
I assume a "snow job" is white.
Crack cracks me up. I doubt he even realizes these things.
Gahrie said...
"no one in the world ever did such things besides White people, and certainly no one non-White is doing those things today."
No one else is doing it, and demanding their victims love them and salute their flag, too.
Y'all got this "peculiar institution" madness all to yourself.
Posit this: Some guy is running for President of Pakistan. He invites an American to deliver a speech extolling said candidate's virtues to the Pakistani nation. The American's wife stands beside him as he delivers his speech. She is wearing a little black dress such as Ariana wore to the funeral. The American holds up a copy of the Koran and tells the Pakistanis that those who oppose his candidate are bad Muslims. I wonder how many votes the speech of this American would have garnered (in the Ben Affleck sense) for his candidate.......Shouldn't minorities be sensitive to American values and to some extent try to adapt to them?
Michael K said...
"Crack cracks me up. I doubt he even realizes these things."
Weren't you just doubting this reader of Instapundit and Reason could recognize a libertarian? What do you think your never-ending list of doubts about blacks - which are always, obviously, wrong - say about you, considering you're almost always choosing to be a racist in our engagements? Go on - take a guess.
You devil you.
Another genius writing for The Atlantic gets it wrong. As rocean said, it’s the melting pot, baby. Look around! Rap music? Tex-mex? Salsa? That Korean restaurant up Clark Street? Poke carryouts? Why do Hawaiians of Japanese ancestry love Spam? How come Asian-Americans do so well in school? Is it wrong to speak standard English? Etc., etc., etc.
The best idea is to appear to be smart, reliable, and committed.
Sociology is not, nor has it ever been close to being a social science. It has been purely ideological from the beginning.
William said...
"Shouldn't minorities be sensitive to American values and to some extent try to adapt to them?"
We are - we're trying to get WHITES to honor them - but they prefer trying to wiggle out of it. Slavery while insisting "All Men Are Created Equal" for themselves, etc. Jefferson said there'd be a price for this. Whites don't want to pay.
That's whites.
God, what a great time this is to be a white male! Unless there is a war or something.
******
Yes, and then the wymyn will demand that only the men go off to defend them, that those wymyn can't be told what to do with their bodies, but "able-bodied men" can be.
Peggy McIntosh and former Washington Post columnist and book critic Jonathan Yardley are examples of elderly white people who perceive, probably correctly, that they were the beneficiaries of policies that benefitted them, mostly due to their ethnicity. Their response is not to voluntarily relinquish their well-paid positions in favor of more talented people who were discriminated against. It is not even simply to end the discrimination they believe themselves to have benefitted from. Their solution is to discriminate against people with their skin color.
And this is going to end.
I mention Yardley because I did used to read him and because I did formerly read him and because he was outspoken and explicit in his position.
Asian-American dude here, with traceable US-roots that date back to the 1890's (at least on the men's side ... Chinese Exclusion Acts and all). I'm with Seeing Red here, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do".
I'm sure my parents (born in the '20s in China) wanted me to keep more of my Chinese culture, but my wife (a Northern European mutt) will attest that I am 100% American. American culture is not static, especially with so many global influences (media, trade, immigration). More people should just go with the flow, IMHO. Want to be part of the melting pot, great! Salad bowl your preferred metaphor? You better figure out a way to play nice with the other veggies on the plate. Modern Asian immigrants, I think, have it easy compared to 60-70 years ago. The first gen kids always have to dig deep to blend in, either melt or be a part of the salad.
Regarding Harvard/Ivy League admissions? Not a club I want to be a part of ... but I'm glad the institution is being forced to look in the mirror.
Amadeus 48 said...
"As rocean said, it’s the melting pot, baby."
This is the Disney version coming up, in need of a reality check:
"Look around! Rap music?"
Racist Right-Wing white men insisted it wasn't music for decades and did everything in their power to destroy it.
"Tex-mex?"
Racist Right-Wing white men used to beat up the first performers for violating their idea of Country music.
"Salsa?"
Got developed out of sight of white America until it got so popular it's accepted, etc.
If whites would just TELL THE TRUTH it would be so much better for everyone.
It's fascinating that whites understand the Irish, like the Kennedy's, wanting revenge for the discrimination they faced, but thinking anybody else is going to Hell for feeling anything of the sort - when whites know what they did to almost everybody..
It's simply fascinating.
Jefferson said there'd be a price for this. Whites don't want to pay.
360,000 of them paid from 1860-1865 and more have paid every year since.
The Economist asked YouGov to do some polling on the use of the word “n****r”. The results came in this week, and they are that 35% of those who voted for the president report having used the word themselves. Perhaps more surprisingly, 24% of those who say they voted for Hillary Clinton have done so too.
14% of Democrats believe that Obama was born in Kenya: https://www.newsweek.com/trump-birther-obama-poll-republicans-kenya-744195
Unlike Republicans, they believed that he was born in Kenya and they still voted for him.
It's fascinating that whites understand the Irish, like the Kennedy's, wanting revenge for the discrimination they faced,
Oh we understand it's all about revenge...I'm just surprised to hear you admit it. You usually try to pretend it's about "justice'.
People who use the n-word most are black.
"I don't think it's fair to say that the lawsuit is "some Asian-Americans... aligning themselves with white people. The plaintiffs are showing that Asian-Americans are, because of race, being treated worse than white people."
True, but false: fairness has nothing to do with it. This is just a skirmish in the prog culture war.
"So why don't they back off and accept the worse treatment? Just be nice. Which actually, ironically, sounds like a demand that they act white."
True, but false: "whitening" is just a prog tool, which progs get to deploy as they please. No sociologist is going to change her mind due to deplorable criticism or a keen sense of irony.
Crack said:
No one else is doing it, and demanding their victims love them and salute their flag, too.
China, Zimbabwe, South Africa, ...
Crack,
Whites conquered for reasons other than silly ideas about being "created equal".
They conquered a whole world, not just an enslaved minority in this country, and using far different formulas of justification.
The results of an examination of why and how Cortes won, or Albuquerque, or Clive, are far more relevant and practical and amoral.
To become a powerful people, well, one must become a powerful people, able to get things done, to go out and conquer, to outfight the others in an open contest, and a willingness to study others with genuine interest, to know their weaknesses and exploit them. Organization and innovation and discipline and curiosity.
White Whites. White Hispanics. Treasonous Blacks. And now White Asians.
The terms of diversity have been set. They should go along to get along.
Colorful clumps of cells.
Throw a baby on the barbie for a fair climate and secular progress.
Did you know that in France when you enter a store you are expected to say "good day" or otherwise politely greet any clerks working there? And if you don't, you are considered rude and will be treated rudely in return? And the fact that you are not from France will not be taken into account because the sentiment is that if you are responsible for learning and conforming to the norms of French society while you are in France?
The Russians trended White until they swung hard Left.
The Germans started White, then swung hard Left, and are now working through an identity crisis.
The Chinese are trending White to enjoy the benefits of modern civil society and scientific development.
Hispanics, other than White Hispanics (i.e. #TooManyLabels), are generally White (i.e. self-moderating, responsible) anyway.
Oh, and White Reds... and White Transgenders... and... #HateLovesAbortion
"The Irish and Italians were always White, but just not liked by WASPs."
I've never met a WASP who disliked either. Especially, the Italians.
When were you born, Crack? I doubt you ever faced a day of Jim Crow in your life. If people treated you as inferior, it was not because of your skin color; it was because you really are inferior. Now quit trying to play the Mau-Mau game with us. We ain’t interested.
Power comes first.
Feelings (that matter to anyone else) come later.
Btw whites have become experts at exploiting other tribes' feelings in intra-white competition. And in enlisting other peoples in their own armies, to fight other whites.
Cortes and Clive went to war with armies of mainly natives. Every colonialist conquered and held their empires with native troops.
What is the difference between the old British Indian Army, made up mainly of sepoys and the levies of Indian potentates, and the California Democratic party?
“"They left out the most important fact:" White people killed, enslaved, disenfranchised, and ripped-off lots of people.”
True, and then the progeny of the slain, enslaved, disenfranchised, and ripped-off, did everything in their power to reap the benefits of Western Civ. Without those evil White imperialists Iris Kuo would be a domestic farm animal in some Asian shithole right now. Her privilege is built on a mound of skulls and you couldn’t tear it from her hands with a crowbar. Asian-American SJW women practice a special kind of intense hypocrisy and I suspect it’s more deeply rooted in envy of some blonde high-school cheerleader than any kind of experience with racism.
My great grandfather, the one who moved to America from Schleswig-Holstein, decided to ixnay on the yiddische and stopped being Jewish. I think in the fullness of time his descendants caught more grief here from being German than from being Jewish. At any rate in America today there's far more cachet to being Jewish than in being German. Over time this may change again, but right now you don't want to be too white bread. That's boring,.....Over in England, actors from posh backgrounds struggle to lose their Oxbridge accents and talk like real people. The world is a dynamic place. What's currently cool in terms of behavior or ethnicity will not be that way forever.
The "white" problem re Jews, Italians, Irish at al brought up here is exquisitely parochial. It assumes that US WASPs are all there is or have ever been. Theres a bloody big world out there, which whites conquered and ran, and in many ways they still run it.
In that world Jews and Italians and Irish were as white as anyone, and have been from the earliest.
It's called assimilation. Mutual assimilation, actually, as elements of other cultures diffuse into American society in rough proportion to percentage of the population. And it has never been a smooth road. Some members of each group will lead and others will follow, while some whose identity or power is based on their "otherness" will resist.
The dominant culture in America is not so much "white" as "English." You can't say that a white culture excluded Irish, Italians, Jews, and Poles and be making any sense. But the predominant influences in this Country for better and worse have been English language and literature, English common law and politics/economics, and in general English ways of perceiving and relating. People who have come here voluntarily have generally adapted to all this over time (largely because it works). Viewing everything solely through the lens of "whiteness" or "white supremacy" is just being obtuse.
The Cracker Emcee Rampant said...
"True, and then the progeny of the slain, enslaved, disenfranchised, and ripped-off, did everything in their power to reap the benefits of Western Civ."
No, they TRIED - because, once that was over, then racist Right-Wing whites instituted Reconstruction and the KK rides, etc. Tell the whole story, Man. You sound stupid otherwise.
"Without those evil White imperialists Iris Kuo would be a domestic farm animal in some Asian shithole right now."
You don't know that - and that's part of the crime: whites STOLE people. Whatever they were to be will never be known.
"Her privilege is built on a mound of skulls and you couldn’t tear it from her hands with a crowbar."
I'm not trying to - just as I'm not trying to be African or sue Africans - though racist Right-Wing whites keep trying top play that trick on us, too, as a way to avoid their responsibility for what they've done - HERE - which is where the crime occurred.
"Asian-American SJW women practice a special kind of intense hypocrisy and I suspect it’s more deeply rooted in envy of some blonde high-school cheerleader than any kind of experience with racism."
Your suspicions are usually wrong, so I wouldn't trust them, if I were you. Don't you keep track of your hits and misses?
You're in DEEP.
The doctrine of McCluhan holds that when something is obsolete it becomes an art form. Thus so with ethnic identities after two or three generations in America.
mockturtle said...
"People who use the n-word most are black."
In history? You're a fool.
Clueless people said: "When were Irish not considered White?"
HELLO!
The Irish are the blacks of Europe. And Dubliners are the blacks of Ireland. And the Northside Dubliners are the blacks of Dublin.
the Commitments
Hagar said...
"China, Zimbabwe, South Africa, ..."
My bad. But, if a racist Right-Wing white wants to say America's the equal of those three in it's treatment of it's citizens, then, please, be my guest.
Ron Winkleheimer said...
"Did you know that in France when you enter a store you are expected to say "good day" or otherwise politely greet any clerks working there?"
Bullshit. I lived in France, off and on, over the course of 20 years.
This is what cultural assimilation looks like. Unless your culture is good at creating its own poverty, you assimilate in the US mainstream which is middle to upper middle class at a minimum. This is what happened to the Irish, the Italians, the Germans, and to many of the Hispanics who had the drive to come to the US themselves.
"People who use the n-word most are black."
In the present day, only blacks are allowed to use That Word. Notice the use of the present tense. Also, unauthorized use in the past can be penalized.
buwaya said...
"Whites conquered for reasons other than silly ideas about being "created equal"."
Of course they did, but that's what sums up their crime against American blacks.
buwaya said...
Power comes first.
Feelings (that matter to anyone else) come later.
Maybe in the PI, but HERE, as wisely stated by
Tony Montana: In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women.
I would assume that feelings would come after that
Slavery has been a part of most societies historically, all over the world.
What sets the US apart, is WE fought a civil war to end it.
England ended it first, in a nicer way.
And you still have slavery in Africa, but I guess that does not matter.
In that world Jews and Italians and Irish were as white as anyone, and have been from the earliest.
I don't get the "Irish aren't white" thing. There was some discrimination in places like Boston but that was 200 years ago and very local.
My Irish ancestors came about 1810. One side ended in northern New York State and the other side ended in Canada just about opposite on the other side of the St Lawrence River. The Canadian half moved west with the railroad, ending in Lindsey Ontario.
The American half ended up in Illinois.
One quarter were English and were in Pennsylvania at the time of the Revolution. Several fought. and the Irish side fought in the Civil War.
Nobody had slaves and all were farmers, as indeed most American were then.
This identity politics is a recent invention. I think it might be related to the loss of valid political differences as the Democrats get rich.
Big Mike said...
"When were you born, Crack? I doubt you ever faced a day of Jim Crow in your life."
How many wrong assumptions do I have endure before racist Right-Wing whites stop making them? I was born in 1961 and not only made a cross-country drive in those terrifying years but spent lots of time in Texas - where Jim Crow was very much alive - so suck it.
"If people treated you as inferior, it was not because of your skin color; it was because you really are inferior."
Did I say anyone ever treated me as an inferior? No. I'm usually treated as intimidating. As Annie noticed earlier, I was called "Mr." when I was a child and most people find me off-putting because I know more than they do on the subjects that interest me (I'm a huge reader, always have been). That's why I'm the center of things here. It's not a fluke: it's the same wherever I go. I don't live a normal life.
"Now quit trying to play the Mau-Mau game with us. We ain’t interested."
And what racist Right-Wing whites are interested in started interesting me, when, exactly?
rcocean to D. Begley:
"The Irish and Italians were always White, but just not liked by WASPs."
I've never met a WASP who disliked either. Especially, the Italians.
There used to be a lot more intra-white-ethnic antipathy. (Back then micks, dagoes, wops, kikes, krauts, frogs, hunkies, etc. could sling ethnic slurs at one another without worrying about getting struggle-sessioned about it.)
That was before all the [insert European ethnicity here] became White*.
*White Privilege Havers, that is.
Big Mike said...
"When were you born, Crack? I doubt you ever faced a day of Jim Crow in your life."
I notice you and Michael K are doing this "I doubt you", assumption thing, to justify your stupidity. Y'all should stop doubting me:
You're always wrong.
Yancey Ward said...
"This is what cultural assimilation looks like."
No, this is what cultural assimilation looks like.
Blogger Ray said...
As somebody married to a Taiwanese, with a mixed daughter, what Tripe.
Most Asian Americans get ahead by working their butts off, not due to the color of their skin. Their are some born into wealth, but most are not.
---
As expected, this thread is rich with comedy!
This identity politics is a recent invention. I think it might be related to the loss of valid political differences as the Democrats get rich.
---
Ahahahahahahahahahahaha
Get back to reliving your 'glory days' old man. As long as you're making history up, it may as well be about your own life.
Ray said...
"Slavery has been a part of most societies historically, all over the world."
Yes, but not as America practiced it.
"What sets the US apart, is WE fought a civil war to end it."
No, it was also that slavery was for multiple generations, and was enforced by a vicious violence and outlandish mental games, plus featuring rape and other terrors well into the 1960s. If you limit it to ending slavery, whites look great. But, if you tell the whole story, whites look like they're hiding something - the truth.
"England ended it first, in a nicer way."
Yeah. Funny how racist Right-Wing whites can never get there in their dealings with blacks. They always have to insist on the hard way. Even today. They're monsters. By choice. They get off on it. You can see the little thrill Gahrie and the rest get from their games. They're like evil spawn from the past.
"And you still have slavery in Africa, but I guess that does not matter."
Yes, because guess what? We're not Africans.
I don't know this women but I will lay down my life for her right to spout this blather.
Sincerely
The whitest man you know
Cis-White? Babies have a notoriously light-colored skin, which may explain Planned Parenthood and selective-child, recycled-child.
This identity politics is a recent invention.
It's a progressive cash cow after the Left were divested of slavery and diversity.
"China, Zimbabwe, South Africa, ..."
Mandela (i.e. Hamas) faction versus other black (e.g. Fatah) factions. Hutu versus Tutsi. Anasazi versus Anasazi. Apache versus everyone. The world has always been burning. At least today people of all colors, including Cis-Whites, can find common cause in a White (i.e. full spectrum) future.
Asian shitholes have been shitholes, by modern standards, for the last 5000 years. Everywhere else was a shithole too. Peasants were peasants, and nearly everyone was a peasant.
The modern is very modern. This stuff only started to change substantially less than 200 years ago. And all of the stuff that changed it was European. Some had to be forced on people, like the massive irrigation works in the Punjab, or the Mexican oil industry. And then they depend on it, taking it as their birthright.
It takes a remarkable lack of perspective to misunderstand the why and how, the nature and development of modernity. I blame education.
The Cracker Emcee Rampant: Asian-American SJW women practice a special kind of intense hypocrisy...
I'd say "their own special kind of crazy", but I get your point.
...and I suspect it’s more deeply rooted in envy of some blonde high-school cheerleader than any kind of experience with racism.
I always suspected that SJW crazy ladies of the Asian-American variety were the kids who washed up in some Angry Studies department because they weren't smart enough to cut it in the upwardly-mobile/prestige fields their stereotypically smart and high-achieving parents wanted them to go into.
Crack,
This is one of the most interesting things you have ever written!
>Yes, because guess what? We're not Africans.
Sociology, for those who think it's of no interest.
Goffman, the merry go round (txt)
Many of the young Asian women in the city these days are hot. I don't mean like she's kind of cute hot I mean solid nine über model hot. Happy to have them play for team whitey!
The Crack Emcee said...
No, this is what cultural assimilation looks like.
Eric Garner died while being forcibly assimilated into NYC PC-left culture for the crime of arbitrage selling of loose cigarettes to African Americans who could not afford a full pack due to onerous taxes and poor economic prospects.
There was purportedly a "Jewening" which preceded the concept of "Jew Privilege" and its progressive aftermath. A "Tutsing" which preceded "Tutsi Privilege" and its aftermath, which may have been more of a Mandela versus other factions, or Fatah versus Hamas.
Or they get burned out... The pressure to get into a Top School in ethnic Chinese and Koreans in the US is INTENSE. Suicides in Palo Alto is just an example of some whom can't take it.
Group think has a lot to do with it.
Most Universities are giant indoctrination centers.
Universities do an AMAZING JOB of cutting off kids from their parents. So the continually pushed Tiger Kid gets to college, and finds out they can make their own choices!
One Mother I know, her Son after he went to CMC (Claremont McCenna College), cut off ALL communication with his Mother. She is the reason he got into an A+ College, by pushing him super hard. And she got repaid by being abandoned by her son. She worked super hard to bring him up as a single Mother - very sad.
Most of my Daughter's Asian friends from high school are extremely Liberal, and HATE TRUMP. Most of them went to Very Good Colleges, Harvard, Berkeley, UCLA, etc.
>I always suspected that SJW crazy ladies of the Asian-American variety were the kids >who washed up in some Angry Studies department because they weren't smart enough to
> cut it in the upwardly-mobile/prestige fields their stereotypically smart and
> high-achieving parents wanted them to go into.
young Asian women in the city these days are hot... Happy to have them play for team whitey!
And then there was the Progressive Leap. Hopefully, they have made the right choice (not Choice).
ALTHOUSE: "...Which actually, ironically, sounds like a demand that they act white."
Brilliant, terse, true and 'funny'....Amen!
Crack,
How did America practice Slavery that was different than other countries?
Why was the American version worse?
There were actually Black slave owners in the US.
Haiti seemed to have been much worse. Roman Slavery was even worse, historically speaking.
On a hypocrisy level, where you have strong so called Christians preaching slavery is good, I could see your point.
1960's is still 50 years ago.
When did Ritmo become Crack ?
Asking for a friend.
The man who died in a chokehold was selling cigarettes.
Cigarettes were a European invention, a huge exploitation of nature and native custom, and the diffusion of this discovery throughout the world. All aspects of this are typically European, the curiosity to investigate nature and foreign customs, the development of methods of commercial farming of tobacco, and the aggressive marketing.
And moreso the creation of cigarettes as a mass market, a standardized product, made on European designed manufacturing machinery, in European designed processes, and distributed in European designed marketing systems.
Indeed, the whole idea of a mass market for standardized products is a European invention. Coffee, tea, sugar, soap, wine, beer, distilled liquor, canned goods, on and on and on. So is the modern concept of oceanic global trade in commodities and manufactured goods, as opposed to luxuries. The store he was selling cigarettes outside of was also chock full of these things. And the store itself and the distribution system and financial system on which it relies.
So is the entire modern world. Everything you can touch. Even the ground. Shall we do a deep dive into that sidewalk on which he died?
Even money. A standardized, accountable coinage is an ancient concept, perhaps invented twice, the Chinese having it earlier. But the Chinese idea did not go very far, and the European-Mediterranean system went global. Chinese monetary-economic concepts are now copies of European ones.
Actually he was a victim of the administrative corruption that is found in Democratic Cities, that is supported by over taxation.
How dare a person make income by cheating the state of their hard earned excessive taxes!
He was selling lousies, single cigarettes, and New York City has a huge tax on Cigarettes. So people buy them in Indian reservations or neighboring areas with lower taxes, and then resell them individually to make a profit.
>The man who died in a chokehold was selling cigarettes.
Rigelsen said...
"It’s a frustrating mess for those of us who actually believe in Martin Luther King’s dream."
Smell the coffee.
For what its worth, arbitrary taxes on commodities are also ancient concepts and are NOT exclusively European ideas. As also with tyrannical governments.
Governments that oppress the people through excessive taxation and impose order and compliance through violence are human constants since men started making cities.
We don't consider ourselves "white people." We consider ourselves Americans.
"We don't consider ourselves white people"
Go to Asia, or anywhere non-white, and you certainly are "white people" first, and American second.
Ray said...
"How did America practice Slavery that was different than other countries?"
Traditionally, slavery has been fatal. Most slave economies have continually imported new slaves to replace the ones killed by slavery. Slave populations do not usually increase by breeding, as American slaves did after importation was banned.
"In the next wave of whitening, some sociologists have theorized, Asians and Latinos could begin to vanish into whiteness, as some assimilate culturally into white norms and culture, and become treated and seen by whites as fellow whites."
In the imaginary future of Star Trek, all the races and nationalities live together in peace and harmony, boldly going and so forth. Strange, then, that they still have races and nationalities.
"some Asian-Americans... aligning themselves with white people."
In Central America, South Africa, India... this is how the "West was won". Ironically, this is also how the "West" will be lost. Competitive White... Cis-White factions.
Go to Asia, or anywhere non-white, and you certainly are "white people" first, and American second.
Yeah, skin-color is an indelible marker, and people are notoriously diverse. Fortunately, for most people, it does not rise to the threshold of adversity.
Ray asks of Crack, how was US slavery different. I will try to answer that
As Crack already pointed out, slavery was enduring across generations. It was conducted at a vast distance from the population origin sites in Africa, so there was no escape. It operated with much stricter bans on miscegenation than in Latin countries, so there was not the mixed race spectrum to bridge the racial divide, and in many states there was a slave majority, so loss of power by the slave holders was viewed as a disastrous prospect. The slave holders constructed a trap from which they could see no escape.
I hope this clarifies things for you.
"In the next wave of whitening, some sociologists have theorized
Black Africans are yellowizing. Chinese incels left isolated by the Progressive Leap (e.g. state-sponsored Planned Parenthood) are reducing diversity through marriage at the regretful or opportunistic regime's direction.
The Crack Emcee said.. "They left out the most important fact”. White people killed, enslaved, disenfranchised, and ripped-off lots of people.
Not uniquely. It was just their turn. Everyone on the central continent did it. There’s nothing unusually bad about the white colonial period, other than its reach, thanks to ships.
I did my part.
Ray said...
"There were actually Black slave owners in the US."
Many bought family members to free them.
I gave up right here: "It refers to the way the white race has expanded over time to swallow up those previously considered non-whites, such as people of Irish, Italian, and Jewish heritage." This doesn't get the BS tag?!?
>It was conducted at a vast distance from the population origin sites in Africa, so
> there was no escape.
This was not uniquely American.
Romans did Slavery over vast distances in antiquity. Not to mention the Jews in Babylon, and in Egypt.
Brazil, Caribbean, Arabia are all places non-American places that had slavery at the same historical time, and over vast distances.
Michael K said...
"When did Ritmo become Crack ?"
This man can't be right if he tried. It's no wonder the race stuff confuses him: he can't think.
Thomas Sowell did say one of his fears is that Americans have forgotten how.
What is the difference between the old British Indian Army, made up mainly of sepoys and the levies of Indian potentates, and the California Democratic party?
None, essentially.
@Crack It sounds nice to say they all were bought to be freed, but evidently that was not entirely the case. Did black people own slaves?
To say nothing about those who provided the slaves in the first place. I am not trying to remove the burden from whites, but just pointing out there are no simple answers - as you most likely know.
"When did Ritmo become Crack ?"
When Inga told him to shape up or move out of the basement.
Ritmo decided that using the race card nonsensically was an improvement over just general nonsense.
Given the 'conversation' around race these days, I wonder if children today think the different races are different **species**?
Rigelsen said...
"It’s a frustrating mess for those of us who actually believe in that one sentence from that one speech by Martin Luther King after he had spoken for years and continued on for even more. Anything else he said doesn't matter."
That's, both, showing how much respect for the man and his work you really have - none - while proving you're a true scholar of the subject, worthy of debating blacks on it. NOT. Here's what it really shows, as I've seen a million times before:
You're a racist Right-Wing white person who only heard what you wanted to hear and ignored everything else so much you didn't even bother to look because, you thought, spouting about King's "dream" was enough to shut-up anybody who would challenge you.
Like I said, I've had whites do this a million times.
Crack— I am going with smart, reliable and committed, as I said above. You can choose whatever characteristics you think work better.
Khesanh 0802 said...
"@Crack It sounds nice to say they all were bought to be freed,"
Here's what I said - "Many bought family members" - not the same thing. Do you see how I speak and you guys hear yourselves - even when it's written?
It's hard to hold a decent conversation with crazy people who constantly do this to me.
Debate what I say, not your assumptions.
Ray, it is not helpful to take one element of my list and point out that it was not, in itself, unique. The point is that the combination of elements created a unique form of slavery and left enduring political consequences.
There are plenty of ironies about slavery in America, but dwelling on them leads off into pointless disputation.
Clyde said...
"We don't consider ourselves "white people." We consider ourselves Americans."
So? The question is what you thought of (and did to) OTHER AMERICANS - who racist Right-Wing whites did "consider" to be subhumans, savages, etc., to keep them from being fully Americans.
This constant jawboning over issues that should've been settled centuries ago is part of it. Just racist Right-Wing whites wasting other people's lives.
Jupiter said...
Ray said...
"How did America practice Slavery that was different than other countries?"
Traditionally, slavery has been fatal. Most slave economies have continually imported new slaves to replace the ones killed by slavery. Slave populations do not usually increase by breeding, as American slaves did after importation was banned.
WOW - That is the most lame answer I've ever heard on the subject. Amazing.
Given the 'conversation' around race these days, I wonder if children today think the different races are different **species**?
As with "Women are from Venus. Men are from Mars", this is a political dispute, which normal people will ignore unless pressed.
sodal ye said...
"There’s nothing unusually bad about the white colonial period, other than its reach, thanks to ships."
Bullshit. Racist Right-Wing whites have always been determined to be on the cutting edge of torture, whether physical or mental, which wasn't part of slavery elsewhere - it wasn't industrialized or weaponized to do what whites have been determined to do to us. The white guy isolating slaves in America and then sleeping with a black guy's wife, before the white guy sold his own kids, did NOT happen normally in slavery elsewhere. American whites are UNIQUE in their depravity. They even wrote Town and Country-type magazines about how to abuse us.
Yes, there was very much that was NOT usual by any means - even if you just contemplate slavery as an institution.
There is no "burden". There is no "justice" due.
These things are just psychological tactics used by some elite whites to suppress the rest, in a white-on-white caste war.
The only rule in these things is vae victis - woe to the conquered.
Don't lose.
“I've never met a WASP who disliked either. Especially, the Italians.”
I would say jealous though. At my HS in the 1960s, the Italians had more money than anyone else, and flaunted it. I remember the head cheerleader and captain of the football team, with similar Italian last names, both having Corvettes. I think the only Corvettes in the school. The story was that when she turned 16, her father took her out to buy her a Jaguar, but couldn’t find one in a color she liked, so bought the Corvette, on the spot, for cash. Apparently he bought one for her brother too, who was in my next brother’s class. But we got the last laugh - her brother eventually joined our Protestant Church, and the father, who had bought his kids those cars, had his funeral there, instead of at the Roman Catholic Church down the block.
The Crack Emcee said...
Clyde said...
"We don't consider ourselves "white people." We consider ourselves Americans."
So? The question is what you thought of (and did to) OTHER AMERICANS - who racist Right-Wing whites did "consider" to be subhumans, savages, etc., to keep them from being fully Americans.
This constant jawboning over issues that should've been settled centuries ago is part of it. Just racist Right-Wing whites wasting other people's lives.
******************
Can't remember where I saw this, but it's appropriate:
" Perhaps we should consider the philosophical maxim of Raylan Givens [on the old program "Justified":]:
“If you get up in the morning and you meet an a**hole, you met an a**hole. If you meet nothing but a**holes all day, you’re the a**hole.”"
Khesanh 0802 said...
"There are no simple answers - as you most likely know."
I do. If you see me write "racist Right-Wing whites" then add an asterisk (*) in your mind, to indicate I'm fucking with the morons.
Sociologists have a name for this phenomenon: “whitening.”
Speaking of whitening, it appears America is actually getting whiter, and that the projection that whites will soon be a minority-majority is bunk.
“When Hispanics who identify themselves as white are added in, the white share of the population actually grew modestly between 2000 and 2017 from 75.1 percent to 76.6 percent.” A majority of Hispanics consider themselves white, and this number has actually increased as Hispanics intermarry with whites. This effect is also seen with other races.
See “Who’s Afraid of a White Minority?” in the New York Times, a nuanced piece by Thomas B. Edsall of the kind the Times used to publish far more often. Lots of links to important demographic studies too.
Martin Luther King Jr. gave lots of speeches that weren't based in dreams.
Y'all should try listening to some, so you don't sound silly, constantly running to one line in one speech and proving to all who know King - immediately - you know nothing about this American giant - or his desire for this nation.
Whites quote one line from one speech, repeatedly, and think people will respect them for knowing it.
They seal their own fate.
Crack:
The white guy isolating slaves in America and then sleeping with a black guy's wife, before the white guy sold his own kids, did NOT happen normally in slavery elsewhere. American whites are UNIQUE in their depravity.
*************
Horseshit:
What color are these slavers? What nationalities? What color and sex are the slaves? You think any of those females were sex slaves? Nahhh....
https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.E65cz2OiJ51me5xbZ4BhMwHaFx&w=205&h=160&c=7&o=5&dpr=1.75&pid=1.7
https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.y64koY3wJVSE20ot8vbohwHaFj&w=269&h=202&c=7&o=5&dpr=1.75&pid=1.7
https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.vuX_nVXDKjWKjLsPmh85gwEsDN&w=236&h=162&c=7&o=5&dpr=1.75&pid=1.7
Globalization with intertwined economics and cultures are driving a policy of mutually assured assimilation.
And the only reason slavery ended was because it became uneconomical in a world of increasing productivity, mass production and global trade. Everyone dropped slavery in a historical blink of an eye, the whole thing taking less than 50 years in the 19th century. The correct metrics here are commodity prices.
It wasn't morality that ended it. There was sturm und drang in some places for entirely local reasons.
A unique characteristic of Americans, was a a minority, then majority, opposition to slavery, then diversity, and a will to sacrifice blood and treasure to end its progress. Unfortunately, diversity seems to be resurgent, and redistributive change is trending. Still, there is hope that principles of individual dignity, intrinsic value, even inordinate worth, will prevail.
It wasn't morality that ended it.
It was a combination, a synthesis of different and sometimes overlapping interests, and a will to force its realization.
I googled "whitening sociology", and received two relevant links discussing whitening. One of the links led to Ms. Kuo's article, and the other went to a wiki page for racial whitening. Oddly enough, the term whitening originated in Brazil.
The rest of the links returned by Google were references to whitening products for Asians. Judging by some of the links, it seems that the Koreans are most likely to purchase such products.
Ms. Kuo is trying to manufacture concerns along racial boundaries. A regular Inspector Javert from the Identity Police Patrol.
WK is correct.
Technology marches on and there will be ever more population-mixing and cultural integration. There is no escaping the consequences. Some of these will be violent.
Unless there is a breakthrough in biological understanding of the mind the future system will be one of racial castes.
When do we start referring to Robert Mueller as Inspector Javert??
A correctly cynical view of history has morality and the like as rationalizations or consequences of underlying "hard" factors.
There was sturm und drang in some places for entirely local reasons.
Yes the Civil War was fought over many issues, including tariffs and the economic dominance of the New England manufactures and protective tariffs to aid them. The southern planters paid import duties and hated it.
We are seeing a faint echo of it now with the tariff negotiations.
I don't think anyone knows how strong China's economy is now. Lots of disagreement.
I don't know if this stuff is accurate.
For years, it officially reported 10%-plus GDP growth each year, with that number declining only in recent years to just above 6%. That growth rate was enough, according to various reports, to make it the world's No. 1 economy when figured on a purchasing power of parity basis (PPP) — that is, what a dollar buys in China vs. what a dollar buys in the U.S.
And, several forecasts say it will challenge the U.S. for the No. 1 spot in the official, non-PPP GDP data, perhaps as soon as the next decade.
But is China really that big?
If Martinez is right, no. China's average GDP growth has been roughly 30% less than reported, based on the measures of its changes in national lighting. This would be an enormous shift in how we view China's economy.
I think Trump may know.
buwaya: And the only reason slavery ended was because it became uneconomical in a world of increasing productivity, mass production and global trade.
And if it ever became economical again, we would soon see the Economist, the NYT, and the rest of the usual suspects pushing for its reintroduction via highly aromatic truckloads of historically-revisionist sophistry.
First delicately, with scholarly vaporings about how humane, how unlike Western forms of chattel slavery the (inaccurately labeled!) "slavery" practiced by non-whites is and always was. (Lot of that out there already, good to go.) Then, more and more shamelessly.
”What would we do without sociologists?”
We’d have more money to hire STEM-types and make the world a better place.
We’d have more money to hire STEM-types and make the world a better place.
Not just STEM-types, but all manner of productive vocations... Yes, even the lowly housewife, who may be barefoot and pregnant with "our Posterity" as humans do.
re: lowly housewife who may also be barefoot and pregnant
It's a long evolution from conception until Nature's Planned Retirement. The lowly housewife may choose a different vocation with time, motive, and opportunity. #HerToo She's not from Venus. #HimToo He's not from Mars. Reconcile.
Buwaya said "a correctly cynical view of history has morality and the like as rationalizations or consequences of underlying "hard" factors."
I would say, on the contrary, that the hard factors are post hoc rationalizations for the strangeness of national relations. I have read a bunch of pre-Civil War and Civil War speeches and writings, trying to understand the thinking of the actors and it is a strange land. It is hard to understand what it was in either side that propelled them to a hugely destructive war. As an outsider to the time there is so much that seems entirely unconsidered, including most of the "hard factors" that later observers discerned. (Is there a stranger speech in American history than Lincoln's Second Inaugural?)
I don't think that you can explain WWI, the Russian Revolution, or WWII on the basis of hard factors either. Cynicism is easy. Understanding the past is hard.
Cis-White people are diverse. We eat marinated pork parts, feet, and ears. While it may not be politically congruent to consume cultural esoterica (e.g. #TooManyLabels's cultural appropriation), there is Cis-White approval and sharing in your dietary legacy. You can be American of Taiwanese descent and flavor. That's not the issue. The issue is Taiwanese-Americans and other measures of half-breed diversity that progresses as adversity.
Understanding the past is hard.
Yes. Quite literally, you had to be there.
It's not "the N-word" or "n****r", it's "nigger". Stop giving words a gravitas they don't deserve. And "nigga" IS the same as "nigger", just pronounced poorly. Don't use it as a slur, but don't act like its the third rail of racism in vocabulary.
Blogger Clyde said...
"We don't consider ourselves "white people." We consider ourselves Americans.
9/1/18, 12:49 PM
Blogger buwaya said...
"We don't consider ourselves white people"
Go to Asia, or anywhere non-white, and you certainly are "white people" first, and American second."
Except we live here. Not in asia.
Mockturtle, I think I will add that while understanding the past is hard, understanding the present is impossible. Too close for perspective and not enough information for insight. That is why I'm still 150 years behind most people in my understanding.
I feel too guilty and have to unload: my only sibling is a sociology professor. Thank you in advance for any kind words of sympathy. So I have the inside scoop on some university trends, such as limiting the use of red pen when correcting papers so as to not 'trigger' students and the like. My biggest beef with the whole thing is that my sister loves to brag about her minority, low-income students, often the first in their families to attend college. "They are taking your classes as electives, right? Surely they are going after practical degrees with a good ROI, given they are the first in their families?" I ask her.
"Nope" she replies, "they are sociology majors."
Jesus, that's some expensive therapy or self-knowledge journey.
"Nope" she replies, "they are sociology majors."
There are good jobs in Texas driving trucks.
”There are good jobs in Texas driving trucks.”
I wouldn’t assume they’d be capable of driving a truck.
My daughter did a DNA test and she is 9% Ashkenazi Jewish. Is that a race or a region? Other results were French, Irish, German all places of origin but not races. Are all those designations Caucasian? I’m confused. She was also 1% East African.
Imagine being able to decide for yourself what food you like!
Principles are time invariant. So, what set of principles are internally, externally, and mutually consistent? Do individuals have a unique dignity? Does life have an intrinsic value, throughout its evolution? Should people have an inordinate worth?
Michael K:
True that - but I have the feeling their POV is to get out of truck driving jobs and into poorly paying, but more 'mainstream white' office jobs, working under florescent lighting. Too bad they are not pursuing accounting, nursing or engineering degrees with that opportunity.
Racist Right-Wing whites have always been determined to be on the cutting edge of torture
Apaches and Comanches would like a word, Crack. Look it up.
On the white thing - there are a pair of YouTubers, one from South Africa and one from the US, ex-pats living in China. Both speak pretty fluent Mandarin and have been in the country for some time. Here is a link to the IMDB page for "Conquering Northern China"
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7738290/
SerpentZa, the dude from S. Africa, posted a very interesting video about his experience growing up ion S. Africa as a white dude, and how the Chinese treat him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZBYOqBr2sc
"I’m confused."
I think what it's really telling you is the proportion of someone's genome that matches proportions that are common in specific populations. So 9% of the DNA sites tested in your daughter's sample have similar patterns of variation as those found in somebody's database of Ashkenazi DNA samples, not that 9 out of 100 ancestors were Ashkenazi jews or anything so definitive. The same goes for the other population categories.
I think that's how it works. Anybody else feel free to correct.
My grandad was half black & indian, and here is me, his grandson, 100% white, blonde hair & blue eyes and everything. I have been swallowed up by the white race!
What a great country this is. God bless America!
Blogger I Have Misplaced My Pants said...
. . .
Apaches and Comanches would like a word, Crack. Look it up.
Those dudes were so badass they would torture each other just for practice.
S. Africa as a white dude, and how the Chinese treat him
Whitening continues in China. Perhaps Yellowizing Africa in turn, will qualify progress and correct its course, before another first-order forcing of Catastrophic Anthropogenic Geographic Climate Change.
@dustbunny, it means that if she marries another person with Ashkenazi DNA they need to be sure to do amniocentesis should she become pregnant because they are at a nonzero risk of a Tay-Sachs child. It's a truly heart-breaking way to watch a child die.
Sir John Hawkins was the first British slave trader to visit Africa. He had scant success finding any black people to kidnap and enslave. He enlisted the help of a black tribe to help him in his efforts. These efforts were successful but the tribesmen he had enlisted massacred all the captives and then ate some of them. That first trip was not successful......In the hierarchy of bad things to do to people, I wonder how disinterested scholars rank enslavement, massacres, and cannibalism. I would rank enslavement as more enlightened than cannibalism. I'm unsure of the relative merits of slavery versus mass murder. There are pros and cons to both positions.
And Judaism is a religion. Not a race.s
That's where I need some help. Aren't Jews a specific 'tribe' of people Like Irish? Muslim is a religion also, but President Trump got called a racist, even though there is no Muslim race.
I can worship in the Jewish faith, but can I ever be Jewish?
I'm asking for a friend.
Jay Elink,
How did a white guy sleeping with a black guy's wife, before the white guy sold his own kids, become - merely - sex slaves?
See, that happened in your head. Somehow, all that horrible shit - even selling your children - got diminished to nothing more than sleeping with someone against one's will. In your head. And you even got links to back it up. This one thing I never brought up because I was talking about something that was infinitely more destructive and wide-ranging. You didn't even mention the act of humiliating a man by sleeping with his wife. Just...sex slaves.
Racist Right-Wing whites have serious mental problems, I think, and this is evidence of it, and how it's expressed. To diminish what you know is wrong is an attempt to wiggle out of it. You want to point the finger at a black other - of course - and make what whites did no worse. Why? Because you, as a white man, feel you have a dog in this fight. That's why, I think. It ain't about finding or admitting the truth.
Just horrible people.
Aren't Jews a specific 'tribe' of people Like Irish?
Twelve tribes, to be exact. ;-)
I Have Misplaced My Pants said...
Racist Right-Wing whites have always been determined to be on the cutting edge of torture
"Apaches and Comanches would like a word, Crack. Look it up."
I have. Did they make Town and Country-style magazines about the best ways to do it? If not, they were pikers.
@iowan2, the Ashenazi are Jews from northern Europe. Sephardic Jews are from Spain. Mizrahi Jews are from the Middle East. The Ashekanzi have certain specific genetic markers, and one of these leads to Tay-Sachs disease in their children. Sometimes the disease manifests itself late in life (30s) but mostly you watch your infants start to die slowly and in extreme pain after about six months. This disease is limited almost exclusively to Ashkenazi Jews, though it can be found in French Canadians and Louisiana Cajuns. Another disease that is almost exclusively found in Askenazi is Riley-Day.
Judaism is a religion. Ashkenazi Jews are an ethnic group, identifiable genetically even if they converted to Christianity generations ago.
Demanding your right will turn you white?
Mockturtle said about understanding the past
Yes. Quite literally, you had to be there.
That's why Crack understands it so well he's stuck there. He never tires of it.
I do not believe Crack is black. He's just trolling us and maybe he really is Ritmo. ;-)
We'd do BETTER.
Freeman Hunt said...
"Demanding your right will turn you white?"
You gotta fight - for the right - to paaaarrrrtaaay!!!
- Beastie Boys
Look, from where I sit, this is not hard: Whites have created this crazy world they live in where few can tell what's real and they've done that because they're crazy and don't want to deal with reality themselves. Thus, when I say whites extinguished families and whatnot, whites hear merely "sex slaves" and continue to deny the nation's guilt - because they know they're "white people" and have always been "white people" since whites used to demand everybody recognize them as such. They did it, nobody else.
How do we fix it? Re-establish the parameters of reality. If we know there's no psychics, then declare the business a fraud and arrest them. If homeopathy is just water, stop selling it. Carry this through to it's logical conclusion and eventually we'll start getting to things like, if the Civil War was about slavery and not states rights, as our history books said, then government's been lying to us, etc.
As I've said, our history isn't long - it's tiny - so the only thing keeping Americans from having a collective comprehensive picture of ourselves is whites don't want to look at it - or for anyone else to see and comprehend it, either. Better to fill their heads with Family Guy and whatever mystical white person Oprah's sucking up to this week.
mockturtle said...
"I do not believe Crack is black. He's just trolling us and maybe he really is Ritmo. ;-)"
Unless I can go back in time (and change my race - you guys want me to be white SO BAD) you're an idiot of 911 truther and Obama birther proportions. Nice to know. ;-)
Post a Comment