৮ সেপ্টেম্বর, ২০১৮

"Frisch’s former students describe him as eccentric, nerdy, prone to lengthy classroom digressions about his stamp collection, dinosaurs or childhood snow days spent sledding."

"Any teacher who spends three decades in the classroom, speaking extemporaneously for hours on end to a roomful of teenagers, is going to have awkward moments. [Ben] Frisch might have had more of them, and they may have been a bit more awkward. But that was how he connected, and it was perhaps a way of connecting that is no longer possible. 'Everybody knew this guy was off — weird behavior, quirky,' said one parent who, fearing retribution against her child, insisted on anonymity. 'Maybe in the ’70s that would have been O.K., but not when you’re paying $45,000 a year in tuition.'"

From "A Teacher Made a Hitler Joke in the Classroom/It Tore the School Apart" (NYT). The joke was saying "Heil Hitler" after he noticed that his arm — in teaching a pre-calculus lesson involving angles — was in the Hitler salute position. "Frisch is a practicing Quaker, but his father was Jewish, and two of his great-grandmothers were killed at Auschwitz."
[Bo] Lauder [the principal at Friends Seminary] did not consider the “Heil Hitler” episode a close call. “Personally, I was appalled,” he told me. “I couldn’t imagine, even as a joke — and I grew up watching ‘Hogan’s Heroes’ — that in a class that had nothing to do with history or World War II or Nazism or teaching German language that an incident like that could happen.” I asked Lauder why he felt he needed to go so far as to fire Frisch. “One of our pledges is to make all of our students feel safe,” he replied. “And that is something that I take very, very seriously.”

That no one has accused Frisch of being an anti-Semite was beside the point: His invocation of the Nazi salute in a classroom full of high school students, regardless of his intentions, was enough to end his career. On today’s campus, words and symbols can be seen as a form of violence; to many people, engaging in a public debate about the nuances of their power is to tolerate their use. “I asked one of our lawyers, ‘How can I do this in a more Quakerly way?’ ” Lauder told me. “And he just looked at me and stated the obvious: There is no way to make a firing a Quakerly event.”
IN THE COMMENTS: Freeman Hunt said:
Isn't it making fun of the salute rather than promoting it?
Yes, but it's the Era of That's Not Funny, because how is a student ever able to be sure that the device of making a joke is not really a way to say the otherwise forbidden thing? I mean, what if a lot of students started greeting one another in the hallways of Friends Seminary with a big old Nazi salute and a hearty "Heil Hitler!" Would it be hilarious? Would it roundly make a mockery of Nazis?

You know what it would be?, I suddenly realize. It would be a real "I am Spartacus" moment! If all the students who think Mr. Frisch is getting an unfair punishment would greet each other henceforth with a Nazi salute and a hearty "Heil Hitler!" — what a protest that would be!

Here's the Wikipedia article on the Nazi salute, which I looked up because I wanted to see the extent of efforts to drain it of power by turning it into a big joke. I thought there'd be a substantial list under the "In popular culture" heading, but there are only 3 things, one of which is "Hogan's Heroes," the 1965-1971 TV show that the Friend's Seminary principal says he "grew up" watching:
• In a running gag in Hogan's Heroes, Colonel Klink often forgets to give the Hitler salute at the end of a phone call; instead, he usually asks, "What's that?" and then says, "Yes, of course, Heil Hitler." In the German language version of the show, called Ein Käfig Voller Helden (A Cage Full of Heroes), "Col. Klink and Sgt. Schultz have rural Gomer Pyle-type accents," and "stiff-armed salutes are accompanied by such witticisms as "this is how high the cornflowers grow." The "Heil Hitler" greeting was the variant most often used and associated with the series; "Sieg Heil" was rarely heard.

• On August 11, 2017, Jeffrey Lord was fired by CNN for tweeting "Sieg Heil!" 
He was joking.
• A similar gesture was used by the fictional Nazi-affiliated organization Hydra, with both arms outstretched and the phrase "Hail Hydra" uttered by members of the organization.
There must be more pop culture examples. I can think of "Dr. Strangelove":



AND: Of course, there's "The Producers" ("Springtime for Hitler" is loaded with Nazi salutes):



ALSO: I know that's the more recent, more musical version of "The Producers." I thought the clip was excellent and used it, even though I'd gone searching for in the original 1967 movie, which you can see here. In that movie, Dick Shawn played the ridiculous Lorenzo St. DuBois (L.S.D.) who was intentionally miscast as Hitler in the so-bad-it's-good show "Springtime for Hitler." I love Dick Shawn in that movie, and went to read his IMDB page, and was fascinated by this:
Shawn won a huge fan base... touring in one-man stage shows which contained a weird mix of songs, sketches, satire, philosophy and even pantomime. A bright, innovative wit, one of his best touring shows was called "The Second Greatest Entertainer in the World." During the show's intermission, Shawn would lie visibly on the stage floor absolutely still during the entire time. By freakish coincidence, Shawn was performing at the University of California at San Diego in 1987 when he suddenly fell forward on the stage during one of his spiels about the Holocaust. The audience, of course, laughed, thinking it was just a part of his odd shtick. In actuality, the 63-year-old married actor with four children had suffered a fatal heart attack.
What an ending!

AND: Here's Dick Shawn on Johnny Carson in 1986, doing a comedy routine about how you can't do jokes anymore, because everything is dangerous:



It was already the Era of That's Not Funny as far as he was concerned.

৩২৩টি মন্তব্য:

«সবচেয়ে পুরাতন   ‹পুরাতন   323 এর 201 – থেকে 323
FIDO বলেছেন...

I smiled when I saw Springtime for Hitler.

Then I saw Mathew Broderick and Nathan Lane.


And I was sad.

Matt বলেছেন...

I really appreciate AA's "Era of That's Not Funny" tag. That is a perfect descriptor for the age we're living in.

Doesn't it get exhausting being outraged constantly?

mockturtle বলেছেন...

Buwaya: I notice you haven't fled our disgusting culture and returned to Manila.
¿Por qué?

narciso বলেছেন...


Burning us assets since 1959 if not earlier:


https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2018/09/08/nyt-reveals-details-of-a-doomed-plot/

Mark বলেছেন...

At a time when the prevailing society practiced slavery -- several hundred years before the African slave trade -- the Catholic Church taught, recognized and practiced equality of master and slave.

When racial commercial slavery began on a large-scale during the 15th century, at a time when Africans were capturing and selling their own, such slavery was formally condemned by Pope Eugene IV in 1435 in his Bull, Sicut Dudum, fifty-seven years before Columbus discovered America.

When the Spain and Portugal colonized South America and brought slavery with them, Pope Paul III in 1537 issued another Bull against slavery, Sublimis Deus. He also issued Pastorale Officium, which warned the Catholic faithful of excommunication for participating in slavery. Popes Gregory XIV (Cum Sicuti, 1591), Urban VIII (Commissum Nobis, 1639) and Benedict XIV (Immensa Pastorum, 1741) also condemned slavery and the slave trade. In 1839, Pope Gregory XVI issued a Bull, entitled In Supremo against slave trading, but it also clearly condemned racial slavery.

wwww বলেছেন...


Sugar and Tobacco are Addictive. Sugar was new in Europe aside from trace amounts from the Mediterranean.

Growing wheat & corn in Ohio with free family labor requires a LOT less $$ then setting up a sugar plantation in colonial Barbados.
Virginia Company in Colonial Virginia was a corporation with investors. With Stock. Selling Tobacco. For profit.

Expensive fund a British slave ship out of Liverpool. Molasses to Rum to Slaves.

You need crops with high, inelastic demand like sugar or tobacco to fund the forced capture and migration of 12 million Africans to the western hemisphere. Slave voyages ain't cheap. Slave cargo was insured. Sickness could kill everyone in those crowded holds. Stocks, insurance, investment and capitol funded slave ships and plantations. Need capitol & investors.

South Carolina was founded to supply the slave plantations of Barbados.

Zong massacre was caused by insurance. Threw 133 people thrown overboard.

The Crack Emcee বলেছেন...

Lewis Wetzel said...

"What ended slavery?
Capitalism and the British Empire, two of the most hated things in history.
Academics and student activists have freed exactly 0 slaves."

I can't conceive of anyone doing anything about slavery if the slavese didn't escape it, or attempt to, first - so why don't they get the credit? I give the credit to the slaves, themselves, without who's actions no one would've done a thing. It's like claiming to "discover" a place where people live. It's just not true.

It makes no sense and turns the truth on it's head.

The Crack Emcee বলেছেন...

The first people to discover slavery was wrong were the slaves themselves.

buwaya বলেছেন...

I have moved much of our assets abroad.

I stay here to make more money, until I get sick of it.

I plan to retire soon.

I hope I can persuade my wife to move, and I will at least leave a lifeline for the kids.

For the rest of you, the Americans, I have no idea what you should do.

wwww বলেছেন...

The first people to discover slavery was wrong were the slaves themselves.

THIS right here.

wwww বলেছেন...


Buwaya,

Do you plan to your kids to Universities in Asia? If not, why not?

Fernandinande বলেছেন...

Theodore Hill brags about practicing anti-male sexism, so he's at least as bad as the people he's complaining about:

"My own efforts have included tutoring and mentoring female undergraduates, graduating female PhD students, and supporting hiring directives from deans and departmental chairs to seek out and give special consideration to female candidates."

wwww বলেছেন...

As for this article:

Idiot bully administrator hired at a high salary, I'm sure.

He jacks up the tuition almost double and goes fund raising. Why? He wasn't to start stupid centers at the school and bring in big name speakers, distracting from the reason for a school. Classroom learning.

He fires the 1 Quaker at a Quaker founded school. He doesn't care that the teachers & students & most of the parents support the teacher.

Administrator sees the teacher as a liability that can disrupt his prestige building and fund raising. He's an idiot, the board is an idiot, they're not focused on learning and teaching the kids.

Clyde বলেছেন...

I'll probably be criticized as a philistine, but I liked the more recent version of The Producers better than the original. Having Hitler as flamingly gay was funnier than having him as a hippie, which made the original's humor dated.

buwaya বলেছেন...

wwww,

All of the kids are done with their studies.
I made an attempt, at the time, to get them to consider universities abroad, unsuccessfully.

This death of the mind has been creeping up gradually, worse and worse by the year.

wwww বলেছেন...



The price of slaves was going up in 1860. Slavery in the American West. That's the whole point of the Dred Scott decision. Slavers wanted to bring their kidnaped hostages to Kansas, to the western territories.

The whole point of the Republican party was to stop the slavers from expanding their terrorism to the western territories.

Michael K বলেছেন...

STEM is being taken over, starting with Purdue and its "engineering Education " school.


Chanel Beebe
Chanel Beebe, ENE Graduate Student, has been awarded a prestigious pre-doctoral fellowship from Ford Foundation Fellowship Programs. She joins only 7 others from Purdue (last Boilermaker to receive this honor was from 2013) and a first for ENE!
According to their website, through its Fellowship Programs, "the Ford Foundation seeks to increase the diversity of the nation’s college and university faculties by increasing their ethnic and racial diversity, to maximize the educational benefits of diversity, and to increase the number of professors who can and will use diversity as a resource for enriching the education of all students."


At least she seems to have a BS in Industrial Engineering but the Linked In profile is not promising.

buwaya বলেছেন...

The prestige building and fund raising are universal.
It is prestige building and fund raising among your corrupt elite, which means pandering to their corruption.

It is a telling anecdote because it points up exactly that, the nature of the people the administrator is trying to please.

And that too is the reason this won't be fixed. You don't just replace an elite. These are the people who run everything, commercial, industrial, academic, bureaucratic. This is a class and a caste, with a distinct culture.

It can't be fixed politically, short of a violent revolution, and maybe not even then. The French leadership caste survived the French Revolution after all.

wwww বলেছেন...

buwaya,

You're a downer.

Americans are, ultimately, optimistic.

Start your own school if you don't like the local school. Home school. Start your own university. That's what Americans have been doing since 1776.

Formerly enslaved people started their own schools and built their own churches. Do It Yourself. You're free to make choices that make you happy.

PhilD বলেছেন...

"It can't be fixed politically, short of a violent revolution, and maybe not even then"

One can always hope for a new "Great Awakening"

Mark বলেছেন...

Likewise, during the Nazi regime, the Catholic Church was part of the resistance, sometimes openly, and consistently in the underground. National Socialism and its ideology were condemned in the 1937 papal encyclical Mit brennender Sorge, and by the German bishops, especially August von Galen of Münster, and others throughout Europe. On the underground level, Catholic churches gave refuge to Jews and others, hiding them in monasteries, convents, schools and elsewhere; including in the Vatican and papal residence at Castel Gandolfo, and issued them false documents. With its large diplomatic network, the Church was a vital conduit in circulating information about Allied POWs and also helped escaped POWs in providing them save conduct.

Because of this defiant opposition, and because of the Catholic/Christian faith, the Nazi regime pursued a policy of suppression and persecution of the Church, including sending priests to concentration camps, shutting down the Catholic press, suppressing Catholic schools, and seizing Church properties.

In addition to seeking to destroy the Church -- which included literally surrounding Vatican City when the Nazis occupied Rome, when they came within a hair's width of storming the Vatican and taking the Pope hostage -- as a direct response to open Catholic condemnation, the Nazi regime increased its persecution of Jews and other groups in places where it had not been, such as the Netherlands.

However, this Catholic opposition also inspired at least a few Germans to mount their own opposition, including people like Sophie Scholl of the White Rose, who was inspired by Bishop von Galen, among others.

But what do I know, having been heavily indoctrinated from birth. You might even say "brainwashed." Or is it the other way around? Is it the people reflexively and ignorantly spouting anti-Catholic attacks who are indoctrinated and brainwashed?

Mark বলেছেন...

The first people to discover slavery was wrong were the slaves themselves

Sure, this pithy response sounds right. That is, if you ignore those who condemned slavery hundreds of years before those enslaved persons were even born.

Bay Area Guy বলেছেন...

@Buwaya,

"For the rest of you, the Americans, I have no idea what you should do."

We should stay, earn money, save money, fight leftism in all its iterations, and persuade good folks like you to stay and join us.

buwaya বলেছেন...

I'm no academic, just a simple engineer, and an amateur historian.
And I'm a foreigner.

This is your country, not mine.
I only observe and draw conclusions.
Our own kids are just fine. We put them in the best circumstances available, and they did STEM before that sacred sphere started being corrupted.

STEM fields are in their own way a pure and direct study of God, his creation, unlike even theology, which is in academic terms simply a study of our ideas about God, a rather solipsistic thing. No doubt our esteemed Brother Victor would have disagreed, but so it is.

wwww বলেছেন...

That is, if you ignore those who condemned slavery hundreds of years before those enslaved persons were even born.


Nope. Enslaved Africans were the first abolitionists.

Boston Massacre. Crispus Attucks took that fight for equality serious.

You're kidnapped. Slavers rape and steal and torture your kids. You figure out pretty quick that slavers are immoral and disgusting.

etbass বলেছেন...

It is just parsing words to deny that the USSR was an ally of the west during WWII. The British and U.S. ran convoys to Russia with immense war supplies. They all met several times to coordinate military strategy and decide on how eastern Europe was to be divided after the war. If these are not the acts of allies, I don't know what the word means. It is true, of course, that the alliance broke apart immediately after Germany was defeated. And it is also true that all parties connived for their own best interests while knowing that working together to some extent was necessary to defeat Germany, But this is not unlike the acts of allies have ever been before and since.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves বলেছেন...

OT: Man Who Intentionally Divided Nation For Eight Years Calls For Unity

Michael বলেছেন...

For the most part Hitler left the churches alone believing, presciently, that they would die off on their own and could be dealt with as needed after the Nazi won the war and the world.

buwaya বলেছেন...

Your political moment is akin to a peasant revolt against their own elite.
This sort of thing has always had a low probability of success, even in the unlikely event of a political victory.

Your revolution of 1776 was not, mostly, a peasant revolt, it was created and led by your elites of the time.

Gramsci's prophecy was correct. There is no way for a revolution to succeed without replacing one hegemony with another, that is by replacing the culture of the elite.

wwww বলেছেন...


How long you been living in the USA? You're a permanent resident. Your choice to not get citizenship is a choice.

You have a choice to relocate elsewhere as an engineer, depending on your area. Engineering friends have worked in Australia, Canada, USA. Other friends have taken jobs in Singapore, Melborne, Paris, Stockholm.

At a certain point complaining gets old to American ears. If you don't like it, move. Change states. Change your nation. Or don't move but do what you need to do to change your situation to be happy & not so pessimistic.

If you want to find a better school for your kids, do it. I can name a couple of Catholic universities off my head in a few seconds: Notre Dame, University of Dayton, Ave Maria - Naples, Florida, Georgetown. There are LOTS to choose from.

Years ago a relative was grousing & said North America would run out of oil and go back to using horses. I laughed & told him nonsense, we would figure out something. Fracking came a few years later.

Lewis Wetzel বলেছেন...

"The American brain is not closed, it is dead."
My mind is doing well, and I am as American as can be.
Elite institutions are not the heart and soul of America.
Anyhow, non-Americans (and some Americans) have been predicting America's imminent failure for over a century. The elites are being crushed, slowly. That explains their squawking.

buwaya বলেছেন...

American "Catholic" universities are Catholic in name only.
It's quite a scandal really.

I'm not grousing, I'm shouting "fire". Flee, or put it out.

And as above, our kids are graduated and done with universities.

wwww বলেছেন...

Your revolution of 1776 was not, mostly, a peasant revolt, it was created and led by your elites of the time.


Sure, but you can't go around saying all Men are Created Equal and talk about Liberty and not expect a whole lotta people to take it serious.

Crispus Attucks took it serious. So did lots of others. So did the enslaved population. The American Revolution kicked off the end of the Age of Empires in the Western Hemisphere. Kind of a big deal.

A joke going around facebook the other day:. British People think things are Fine, even when they're awful. Eastern Europeans think everything is horrible all the time.

Americans think everything is Awesome, even when it's horrible. There's an advantage to optimism. You get stuff done in impossible situations.

wwww বলেছেন...

buwaya,

This is nonsense.

I gave you a range of schools that include Ave Maria. Do you know anything about that school?

Bay Area Guy বলেছেন...

"It is just parsing words to deny that the USSR was an ally of the west during WWII."

Grossly incorrect, bordering on ignorant.

Did our other allies (England & France) help us liberate Europe or conquer half of Europe like the Soviets did?

The Soviets had different war aims than us - we fought to liberate, they fought to conquer, but first needed us to save their bacon from the Nazi onslaught. It was a temporary marriage of convenience - nothing more. Go read anything by Robert Conquest or Haynes/Klehr on the Venona Papers.

Michael বলেছেন...

Buwaya' s criticisms of and cynicism about the future of the USA are on point and well accepted by careful,observers of the trajectory of American culture over the past fifty years. Basically inarguable. The "love it or leave it" comments are jejune. He is a valuable contributor to these pages and the kind of resident we need more of in this country if we are to hold off its collapse if even for a few more decades. I sense among my children and their friends a growing defiance of the systems that have bred the cultural divide and their open mockery of the SJWs in their midst. I have more hope then Buwaya but cannot refute his general view.

buwaya বলেছেন...

Elite institutions create hearts and souls.
Its not a one-way process, but it is preponderantly so.
Thats how much of Europe speaks languages derived from Latin, and all of it was once Christian, and how most of it now isn't.

wwww বলেছেন...


Or send your kids to Hillsdale.

There's a lot of choice in the USA. It's the whole point of America.

YOU have the choice.

& if you don't like the choices, a group can get together and create a different choice.

Original Mike বলেছেন...

”At a certain point complaining gets old to American ears.”

buwaya turned into Chuck so slowly I didn’t even notice.

wwww বলেছেন...


Look,

I'm not saying love it or leave it.

I'm saying don't wallow in despair. Do something so you are not unhappy with your life. Buwaya made a comment saying we should "flee to Asia." Move to Asia if you want. Stay if you want. But it's not necessary to flee anywhere.

We're free people. Americans are not slaves. Americans don't wait for other people to get stuff done.

The reason LOTS of private schools exist in the United States is because groups of people got together and founded LOTS of private schools.

James K বলেছেন...

Stalag 17 and Hogan's Heroes and The Great Escape and The Producers and other films/TV that treated the Nazis and WWII as comedies were all produced in wake of the war by people personally involved or affected by it.

I know a bunch of the cast in Hogan's Heroes were Holocaust refugees who lost family members to the Nazis: Robert Clary (Louis), John Banner (Schultz), Werner Klemperer (Klink). The guy who played Col. Hochstedter was Jewish too.

wwww বলেছেন...



It's very possible to find a school to teach your kids Latin. I know people who are experts at Greek and Latin and can recommend secondary schools.

I'm an optimist. I don't have a lot of patience for pessimism. Yes at some point the earth may get hit by an astroid or something.

If you think the world is depressing and not joyous, perhaps hang around with families with young children. That's a serious recommendation. Many things have greatly improved over the last 50 years. Child mortality for one thing. Children sick with polio is a serious problem. Annoying school administrator is not.

As long as you live and have your health there's optimism. Getting doomsday is is defeatist.

mockturtle বলেছেন...

A joke going around facebook the other day:. British People think things are Fine, even when they're awful. Eastern Europeans think everything is horrible all the time.

Not a joke, really. It's true.

buwaya বলেছেন...

I am no paragon of ideological conformity. In American political terms, I have no side.

I am, if anything, on the far side of Chuck, and on another continent from Trump.

Chuck's basic assumption is that your system is fine, your elites are sound, that all the fighting is and should be about policy technicalities according to ancient formulas.
I think that your struggle is about souls, with no rules, and to the knife.

Trump, and his supporters, assume that the elites can be defeated, subjugated or replaced. Many I think are quite naive about this. I think history says otherwise. This fight is not merely in doubt, it is desperate.

walter বলেছেন...

Nothing rallies defiance more than saying "Forget it. You're screwed."

James K বলেছেন...

Wake me when one of these "enlightened" school administrators goes after someone for mocking a Christian, or a Mormon, or a Hasidic Jew.

buwaya বলেছেন...

You are screwed. That is realism.

There are three possible responses -

1 - Fight with suicidal desperation. Accept death (or ruin) as the price of honor.
2 - Flee.
3 - Shut up and survive.

I am not personally invested here, enough, for #1

mockturtle বলেছেন...

If my country goes down, I'll go down with her. But I won't give up without a fight.

tcrosse বলেছেন...

Eastern Europeans think everything is horrible all the time.

It's an average year: worse than last year, better than next year.

elkh1 বলেছেন...

That Hitler thing was a cultural appropriation of the Roman salute.

walter বলেছেন...

And yet..you do neither #2 or #3.

wwww বলেছেন...

Not a joke, really. It's true.


It's so true! & Americans do think everything is Awesome! It's helpful to not give into despair.

I just cannot support any "we're all doomed" attitudes. I'm an optimist. Unrelenting pessimism is counter to how I see things.

Those environmentalist vegan-types who think we're gonna run out of food & die drive me Up The Wall. I react this way to doomsday thinking. Unless there is a real problem, like cancer, or a sick kid, or a problem that merits depressed thinking.

I'm quite serious about depressed people seeking out families with young children.

Char Char Binks, Esq. বলেছেন...

With Friends like these...

Lewis Wetzel বলেছেন...

I believe that every successful revolution has been led by the bourgeois.
The American revolution was unique in that the elites devolved political power to the common man. The first amendment -- the first item in the bill of rights -- guarantees freedom of speech and freedom of religion. These two rights, by themselves, cripple elite rule. You may have noticed that these two rights are under heavy attack by American political and cultural elites today.

mockturtle বলেছেন...

wwww suggests: I'm quite serious about depressed people seeking out families with young children.

Or animals. A few minutes ago I saw three dogs jumping up and down next to the family pickup, in delighted anticipation of going 'bye-bye'.

mockturtle বলেছেন...
এই মন্তব্যটি লেখক দ্বারা সরানো হয়েছে।
mockturtle বলেছেন...

I believe that every successful revolution has been led by the bourgeois.

Hell yes! Royals don't lead revolutions, after all! The middle class [or upper middle class by American definition] has always been the vanguard of change, both for good or for ill.

Henry বলেছেন...

It was a temporary marriage of convenience - nothing more.

So it was a short alliance.

Unknown বলেছেন...
এই মন্তব্যটি লেখক দ্বারা সরানো হয়েছে।
Unknown বলেছেন...

"I believe that every successful revolution has been led by the bourgeois."

The royalty doesn't have the reasons, and the peasantry doesn't have the means.

tcrosse বলেছেন...

Let's not forget To Be or Not to Be (1942) in which Jack Benny dresses up in Nazi uniform. A lot of critics didn't think it was very damn funny at the time. It was remade in 1983 with (who else?) Mel Brooks.

Michelle Dulak Thomson বলেছেন...

Bay Area Guy,

Did our other allies (England & France) help us liberate Europe or conquer half of Europe like the Soviets did?

I'm with you on "conquer half of Europe." They did that, indeed. Liberate? Not so much.

chuck বলেছেন...

Another old Democrat gets hauled off to execution by the party. The revolution was fun until the revolutionaries took over.

wholelottasplainin বলেছেন...

Phil D said...
"The Nazi hysteria is so precious. Meanwhile, Communists get a pass."


That goes back to the aftermath of WW2 when the Western allies snatched defeat out of victory by turning themselves into, sorry to say it, arselickers of Stalin. Stalin, that is, 'Uncle Joe', got a pass on his crimes (and that includes starting WW2 together with Hitler). An enormous propaganda victory for the Left and the Left has been banking on it since then.
***********

So..the Allies lost WW2? They should have gone to war against the USSR after defeating Hitler? When the soviet army was at least three times the size of the Allies, and had demonstrated they would fight viciously to defend Rodina?

None of that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" stuff, I guess. And I suppose you've forgotten the Berlin airlift just a few years after the war...yeah, the Allies were kissing Stalin's arse all right.

Snort.

chuck বলেছেন...

> STEM fields are in their own way a pure and direct study of God,

As I put it, experimentalists talk to God, theorists translate.

McCackie বলেছেন...

Now we know where the Stazi went. They became SJWs.

Gahrie বলেছেন...

None of that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" stuff, I guess. And I suppose you've forgotten the Berlin airlift just a few years after the war...yeah, the Allies were kissing Stalin's arse all right.

You're ignoring the key fact...the Truman administration actually considered the Soviets an enemy...FDR not so much. Perhaps the biggest bullet our nation has dodged was the replacement of Commie sympathizer Wallace with Truman for FDR's fourth term.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves বলেছেন...

On today’s campus, words and symbols can be seen as a form of violence;

narciso বলেছেন...

yes, that is largely true, that's why the soviets supported Hochhuth's portrayal of hitler's pope, a title taken up by le care's brother, the reality re the muller ring inside the german high command, related by riebling and mentioned in passing by Burleigh in sacred places, both pius, including his predecessor were struggling with the titanic forces unleashed by the Russian revolution, which unleashed the new jacobins, as well as backlash in places like hungary and later spain and portugal, the former were more clerically oriented, as with Romania, the Nazis and Mussolini were strongly anti clerical, the former tied faith and nationalism together,

Howard বলেছেন...

Patriotic Jingoist Warriors (PJWs)

Howard বলেছেন...

Blogger tcrosse said...

Eastern Europeans think everything is horrible all the time.


The ones in the States are also the most fervently anti-communist of all time

narciso বলেছেন...

One might argue that the jacobins were premature sjw's, as are the successors, of course the likes of Gramsci and the Frankfurt school in Europe, and alinski in America, have been trying to slip the toxin of Marxism into the body politic, with varying degrees of success. safe spaces is an elaboration of the repressive tolerance of Marcuse, the authoritarian personality straight jacket, (that has been fitted on everyone from McCarthy to trump) hate speech codes, are out of that cookbook,

Drago বলেছেন...

McCackie: "Now we know where the Stazi went. They became SJWs"

Also the Environmental Movement.

Green on the outside, as red as red can be on the inside.

Another clue is how the environmental types never have any complaints about environmental damage caused by their little commie pals in their little commie countries.

Somehow those nations always get waivers....

narciso বলেছেন...

in other news, it seems the procurators seems to have overcharged the littlest sparrow, miss butina, I know you're shocked as much as I.


the events with bolsanaro, the brash ex paratrooper, who probably because of his excessively frank opinions, is in the lead, are somewhat concerning, the left who have claimed a monopoly for a dozen years from lula on, are unwilling to relinquish it,

Drago বলেছেন...

Howard: "The ones in the States are also the most fervently anti-communist of all time"

My Berkeley grad brother majored in Eastern European studies some time back and at that time the entire dept was populated by hard anti-communist emigre's who knew the truth about what the lefties and their LLR allies wanted to do here.

It goes without saying of course that those professors were all replaced awhile back with professors much more amenable to what the lefties and LLR Chuck are trying to give us.

William বলেছেন...

Rather a wide ranging discussion. Here are my tangents: A history of enslavement doesn't make you an abolitionist, St Patrick, for example, was captured and enslaved. He escaped, found God and became a missionary to his captors. So far as is now known, he didn't become an abolitionist. Instead, he became a fierce advocate against recreational sex. The vile habit of masturbation was almost completely eradicated in Ireland and was only reintroduced by Cromwell and his New Model Army after many centuries of absence.......Nowadays we look upon slavery with a visceral repugnance, the way we look upon cannibalism and incest. But different generations had a different view of the practice. George Washington's environs were occupied by the British. His slaves had the opportunity to flee to freedom. Some seventeen of them did, but a much larger number of them did not. Washington's valet, Billy Lee, was enslaved and was undoubtedly a man of courage and intelligence. Freedom was his for the asking when Washington was staying in Philadelphia,but he chose not. I don't know Billy Lee's reasons, but there it is..........In Roman times, if you were a slave and your master was on the proscription list, you won immediate emancipation and a good reward for turning in your master. Cicero's brother was turned over by one of his slaves. Cicero's slaves helped to hide him.

tcrosse বলেছেন...

The ones in the States are also the most fervently anti-communist of all time

The ones in Hungary and the Czech Republic have few illusions about Communism, or much else.

Michael Fitzgerald বলেছেন...

Jay Elink @4:53 And why was the Berlin Airlift necessary? Because we were allied with Russia? Throughout the warm, Russia took from America, and shat on us in return, and FDR and the communist party traitors in his administration encouraged it. Read about the Doolittle Raid, and how the rotten commies of the USSR treated our fliers who landed in Russia. Read Churchill and his regrets for appeasing the scumbag commies, and for trusting FDR with regards to Stalin. Same Democrat party traitors that have spawned generations of leftist destruction of American society. Obama is the FDR legacy in the flesh. Corrupt fascist statists.

William বলেছেন...

Baby steps. Western imperialists were instrumental in abolishing cannibalism in Africa and the Americas. Slavery came somewhat later. It should be noted that there were no large meat bearing animals in the America, besides, of course, humans, before the Europeans came.

Michael Fitzgerald বলেছেন...

Tcrosse@4:36 Have you ever seen To Be Or Not To Be? It isn't very funny, at all. Maybe Lubitsch's unfunniest movie- And I loooove Jack Benny...

tcrosse বলেছেন...

Tcrosse@4:36 Have you ever seen To Be Or Not To Be?

Both versions. De Gustibus.

Nicholas বলেছেন...

Would Bo Chi Minh expel/fire a student or teacher wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt? if not, why not? At least Frisch showed some spontaneity, which is not something Guevara T-shirt wearers could ever claim.

As to the parent deploring that quirky behaviour would have been O.K.in the 1970s, but not when you’re paying $45,000 a year in tuition, they are missing the point: quirky eccentricity is what made the English Public Schools (Prep Schools for you lot) great and why parents are prepared to pay handsomely for the experience.

Howard বলেছেন...

Blogger tcrosse said...... the Czech Republic have few illusions about Communism, or much else.
Exactly
I've met lottsa guys like Luboš Motl, although none quite as smart.

BUMBLE BEE বলেছেন...

Um William, this just in. Bison, deer, bear, waterfowl and fish have been here awhile.

PhilD বলেছেন...

The Berlin Airlift - 1948/9. That's when the relationship with 'Uncle Joe' began to turn sour. It didn't turn back the clock to 1945. And it was only at the beginning of the Korean War that the relationship really broke down. The damage was already done then (in fact, the North Korean regime itself was a direct result of the Western allies appeasement).

But it is the propaganda victory the Left got out of it which is the disastrous consequence of then that still is with us today. The marxist infestation of today is one of those consequences. But one can also observe it in the fact that socialism became the leading political philosophy of the new independent countries, and what a disaster decolonization has been.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves বলেছেন...

The whole "How do we ruin this guy's life because he goofed an unforgivable goof!" is so Nazi.

Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves বলেছেন...

Jingoist

is a word used by proggies. Fire them all!

Laslo Spatula বলেছেন...

I agree with much of what buwaya has written in assorted comments over the months/years.

An Ideal of America dies with every generation. Sometimes it is reinvigorated anew, but many times the Ideal is a mostly-forgotten ancestor: another place, another time.

The through-line is, and will be, the understanding of human nature, or the ignorance thereof.

I believe the Founding Fathers would easily recognize the human needs and desires found in the country today, but would see the difference in expectations placed upon -- and roles played by -- today's government as alien to their blueprint: for a significant part of America the Founding Fathers' concepts might as well be written in Latin -- a dead language, seen of little import to today.

The idea that some of America dies with every generation is not always a negative thing, of course: the acceptance of slavery being cast aside is an obvious example. The question is what each generation leaves behind: what did they build, and what did they destroy?

Is the true arc of the last hundred-ish years Theodore Roosevelt-to-Reagan-to-Trump, or Woodrow Wilson-to-FDR-to-Obama? Sure, the pendulum swings, but what is considered the center beneath it moves, too. In my more pessimistic moments, I believe that center is moving incrementally but surely from the individual to the collective. Of course, for others, this is cause for optimism.

I believe the answer for this was the idea of each state being its own laboratory of government, of growth and setbacks happening and cross-pollinating, of live-and-let-live when possible: let California be Soviet and Texas be Cowboy, etc etc. But the Federal genie is out of the bottle: there is a heavy thumb on the scale, and it isn't letting up on its own accord.

Then again, it isn't hard to be Solomon when the baby is just an abstract cluster of cells: slice away.

I am Laslo.

Howard বলেছেন...

Jingo Bimbo Warriors

narciso বলেছেন...

The problem is the issue lies not only at the top of the leviathan but in every state and practically every locality.

narciso বলেছেন...

So the notion that the defenders of the Alamo, were not heroes even surfaces in texas

narciso বলেছেন...

Capturing the absurd:



https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/09/the-week-in-pictures-anonymous-edition.php

narciso বলেছেন...

This is what I was referring to rarlier:

https://www.amazon.com/Church-Spies-Secret-Against-Hitler/dp/0465094112

mockturtle বলেছেন...

safe spaces is an elaboration of the repressive tolerance of Marcuse, the authoritarian personality straight jacket, (that has been fitted on everyone from McCarthy to trump) hate speech codes, are out of that cookbook,

Quite so, narciso. Sociologists have done even more harm to society than have politicians.

policraticus বলেছেন...

Part of me wanted to laugh, but after I read the whole thing, it just made me sad.

It is the kind of cruel, thoughtless stupidity that is only possible from people who fancy themselves to be smarter, kinder and more thoughtful than most.

This is way down on a now dead thread, but I like the way your tag for Hitler is lower case, like he is a thing now, not a proper noun, not a person in any meaningful sense, just an "it.". Don't know if it was intentional, but in this case, I think it is meaningful.

narciso বলেছেন...


The odds this notion will get traction:


https://www.wsj.com/articles/were-surviving-trump-just-fine-1536356134?mod=mhp

Gahrie বলেছেন...

So the notion that the defenders of the Alamo, were not heroes even surfaces in texas

I wonder how long it is until the Alamo defenders become the bad guys?

Ralph L বলেছেন...

Damn, I forgot about the Alamo.

stephen cooper বলেছেন...

Ralph L - Remember the Alamo!

narciso বলেছেন...

Like Israeli settlers, because reasons

Ambrose বলেছেন...

I bet they wanted to get rid of him for other reasons - and this just gave them the excuse.

mockturtle বলেছেন...

Damn, I forgot about the Alamo.

I forgot about the Maine!

tcrosse বলেছেন...

I forgot to remember

Narayanan বলেছেন...

@Laslo ...
I hope you are trolling and not claiming::
Solomon wasn't aware of human nature (mother's) and definitely was not setting a clever trap !!

buwaya বলেছেন...

One more symptom of elite corruption - Instapundit posts the NY Post story on the US Open, and the unsportsmanlike conduct of the crowd upon Serena Williams' defeat by a young Japanese girl.

Ms.Williams did not behave honorably, being it seems a very poor loser, but the worst of it was the behavior of the crowd, which repeatedly booed the winner. Booed the winner. Even Serena Williams had to tell them to stop.

Who gets tickets for the US Open?
At almost $1000/seat on average (scalping prices)?
Yes, those people.

Yes this is all a matter of signs and portents, each trivial in itself, if one does not attend to the implications. But we have floods of signs and portents.

wildswan বলেছেন...

I have an opinion on where all this "sensitivity" is going. First, it gets established as fact that insults and bad treatment damage people. There no such thing as resilience, a "thick skin", "water off a duck's back", "consider the source", "rise above" etc. THEN you take the groups that have been insulted and stressed and treat them with drugs and then finally segregate them from the bad world. In their own society with their own leaders, their own laws and their own special fence to keep the baddies out.

In short it's the Nazis again but now they play the violin for awhile before they start on 21st century style abuse.

Marc in Eugene বলেছেন...

"Trump, and his supporters, assume that the elites can be defeated, subjugated or replaced. Many I think are quite naive about this. I think history says otherwise. This fight is not merely in doubt, it is desperate." As much as I would like Buwaya to be wrong in that, I suspect he's more right than wrong-- but who knows.

Thanks, Laslo, for your observations at 6:38.

Jon Ericson বলেছেন...

"those people."
And a lot of commenters here.
Pretty clueless thread.
Polyannas gonna Polyanna.
Up with people!
Feh.

Amexpat বলেছেন...

Thanks for the Dick Shawn link - that was a time when comedians had fresh ideas and approaches. I had expected to see him in the Producers clip that was shown here - he was funnier than the newer Hitler.

Drago বলেছেন...

buwaya: "Ms.Williams did not behave honorably, being it seems a very poor loser, but the worst of it was the behavior of the crowd, which repeatedly booed the winner. Booed the winner. Even Serena Williams had to tell them to stop."

These are very elites who run our elite universities...and treat Asians the same way these institutions treated Jews for decades.

Thus, not surprising in the least. The very much like white people Asian girl dared to show up and defeat an African American. These elites know that they can wash away their public sin of whiteness by expressing their hearty disapproval of such a terrible act.

Now they all get to go back to their homes and tut tut themselves to sleep, curled up and warmed in the knowledge that they possess the Correct Thoughts which makes them the Good People.

Achilles বলেছেন...

The left is crumbling around itself. It is a natural function of a body that does not like itself or have any noble core values.

They know the progressive movement is based on hypocrisy and they know they are the embodiment of everything they accuse their enemies of.

In the end they know they are enemies of freedom.

They are held together by the Aristocracy. The money and power accrued by people because they had money and power.

We are at the beginning of the singularity.

I can guarantee those with power and wealth now will largely be replaced in rapid order over the next 20
Years.

The world will be unrecognizable in 2038. There is no way to even predict what it will look like.

@buwaya

Huge amounts of wealth and power owned right now give the aristocracy a 10 meter head start in a 1000 meter race.

That is all.

Trump’s victory has given the country the chance to move into the singularity with a much more level playing field.

I expect Facebook and google will be broken up and Twitter will die of it’a own accord in short order. Facebook was on it’s way to zero by itself.

mockturtle বলেছেন...

The very much like white people Asian girl dared to show up and defeat an African American.

And, in fact, Osaka's father is Haitian and she is nearly as dark-skinned as Serena.

Lewis Wetzel বলেছেন...

Achilles wrote:
The left is crumbling around itself. It is a natural function of a body that does not like itself or have any noble core values.

This is the Achilles' heel :) of the managerial class. It has always been this way. The most skillful, best educated slaves could not have built the Roman Empire. It is commonly supposed that Modernism has led to an emptiness within ordinary people.
Not me. Not people like me. Getting along quite well, thank you.
Look at DFW. A hothouse flower, the child of two academics. This is the most important thing you need to know about David Foster Wallace:

Wallace's father said that David had suffered from major depressive disorder for more than 20 years and that antidepressant medication had allowed him to be productive. Wallace experienced severe side effects from the medication and in June 2007 stopped taking phenelzine, his primary antidepressant drug, on his doctor's advice. His depression recurred, and he tried other treatments, including electroconvulsive therapy. Eventually he went back on phenelzine but found it ineffective. On September 12, 2008, at age 46, Wallace wrote a two-page suicide note, arranged part of the manuscript for The Pale King and hanged himself from a rafter of his house.

DFW lived a miserable life and died a miserable death.

walter বলেছেন...

mockturtle said...And, in fact, Osaka's father is Haitian and she is nearly as dark-skinned as Serena.
--
Well..that tempers the defeat in a perverse manner..

Francisco D বলেছেন...

@Buwaya,

Your insights see uniquely perceptive. You may be right and you may be off base, but your views are always interesting and informative.

Thanks.

Ralph L বলেছেন...

The crowd might have bet large on Serena.

Narayanan বলেছেন...

@Buwaya, Professora et al ...
Care to comment on the validity of the analysis by this author?

The DIM Hypothesis: Why the Lights of the West Are Going Out

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13542387-the-dim-hypothesis

Narayanan বলেছেন...

Did Osaka make @O(sa)K(a) sign after winning?

Paco Wové বলেছেন...

Apparently the U.S. Open was a pre-ordained celebration of Serena Williams, and that stupid Japanese woman ruined it all by winning:

Katrina Adams, chairman and president of the USTA, opened the awards ceremony by denigrating the winner and lionizing Williams — whose ego, if anything, needs piercing.

“Perhaps it’s not the finish we were looking for today,” Adams said, “but Serena, you are a champion of all champions.” Addressing the crowd, Adams added, “This mama is a role model and respected by all.”


(Assuming the NYPost can be trusted as a source.)

Paco Wové বলেছেন...

I say we just cut to the chase and adopt a new amendment to the constitution, whereby only Sassy Black Women© are allowed to win at anything.

Bill Peschel বলেছেন...

Loved the Dick Shawn clip. It's amazing how much mileage he got from simply gesturing and making faces.

Bonus points to Ann for the clip because we get to see Burt Reynolds on the couch.

Tom Grey বলেছেন...

Under the Big W ... It's a mad mad mad mad world. A favorite early boomer car chase movie, one of the first. Dick was great.

I liked his Hitler, too.

Is there Free Speech? "Heil Hitler" is no good reason to fire a teacher.

Far too much coddling going on for kids in the USA. So Sad!

FullMoon বলেছেন...

roesch/voltaire said... [hush]​[hide comment]

Ann Althouse can you confirm Michail K's claim that the universities are riddled with communist as in all my years working at four different colleges and universities..


Frightening

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