Alongside a Daily Caller story about [Michael Cohen's pleading guilty] were laudatory posts about Trump, from the president’s defense of free speech to his status as “the most feminist president.” TheBlaze gave prominence to Trump’s attacks on ESPN for not “defending our anthem,” foregrounding the president’s grievances with NFL players who kneel during the national anthem to protest police violence.
Meanwhile, conservative talk-radio host Rush Limbaugh asserted that special counsel Robert S. Mueller III isn’t interested in what Trump’s former attorney has to say....The only part of this right-wing media coverage I consumed yesterday was a bit of Fox News, which I did not turn on, but only overheard. As I said yesterday:
If [Trump] went online shortly before 4 p.m., the only “BREAKING NEWS” alert he would have seen was the one from Fox about the 24-year-old undocumented immigrant from Mexico who law enforcement officials say killed Mollie Tibbetts, the 20-year-old college student who disappeared last month.
Alarm over the student’s death dominated the president’s feed... “OUTRAGE!” steamed Laura Ingraham....
Hannity dismissed Tuesday’s news as a bloodthirsty campaign against the president. “The media is once again beside themselves with false reporting, speculation and hysteria,” he said....
On Fox News — "The Five" — there's too much talk about the Iowa murder case, with a suspect who's been in the country illegally, and how this might be what ordinary Americans really care about. I was groaning aloud at this labored effort.My comments section often seems like part — a very small part — of the right-wing universe, and I got a lot of pushback for criticizing Fox for putting an Iowa murder story at the top of the news on such a big national news day.
Examples of comments: "Well Ann I disagree. I am angry about Mollie Tibbetts murderer, but don’t give a damn about Manafort or Cohen." "I kind of do care about murder more than I care about selectively prosecuted financial crimes. Both are bad -- but dead bodies should perhaps get more of our focus." "Mollie Tibbetts' murder is going to enrage a lot of people. Like me. In 2015, when Kate Steinle was murdered by an illegal alien, no politician said a word until candidate Trump began slamming it, slamming our laws, etc. That started momentum that carried him all the way to the White House. I'm willing to bet that people--like me--would rather have him and his policies in the White House than hear about what dodgy Michael Cohen had to say to buy five years."
IN THE COMMENTS: tim maguire said, "Ms. Althouse herself has highlighted Drudge's front page. Stanley-Becker needs to stick his head outside is protective cocoon once in a while is he doesn't want to look like an idiot while talking about people who aren't him." Yes, Drudge is also "right-wing media" (within the Stanley-Becker world view) and — as I showed you in my above-linked post from yesterday — Drudge looked like this:
AND: A day later, Drudge is still showing Trump in Hell. The red is gone, but "IMPEACHMENT FEARS" have arrived:
पोस्ट्स
१३५ टिप्पण्या:
I rate stories on entertainment value; who's finding them entertaining.
PJ Media's morning briefing today described yesterday as a "news bonanza," so I think the charge that the right wing is ignoring it is unfounded.
Well Ann, the question is how real is the Managort story, or the Cohen story. My impression is that these cases so far have been about crooked behavior from before Trump ran for office, are about crimes not actually committed by Trump, and have nothing to do with collusion to rig the election. So maybe they are bigger stories than a murder, but why are they bigger stories than everything else combined?
If [Trump] went online shortly before 4 p.m., the only “BREAKING NEWS” alert he would have seen
That's the most interesting passage in the whole excerpt. We know Trump watches CNN, but Stanley-Becker, so comfortable in his own padded group-think bubble, can't imagine anyone watching news that doesn't spoon-feed their biases.
Conspiracy to collude is a crime, even if collusion isn't. If enough words stack up, it doesn't matter that the final word isn't a crime. That's my understanding anyway.
The Left seems to be collectively struggling with premature exhilaration.
Althouse -- Part of the question in weighing their relative news value is how much credibility you give to Cohn's claim that Trump violated campaign finance laws and, if so, how serious such a violation might be. (Recall that Obama's campaign was found to have made serious violations and only had to pay a few hundred thousand dollars in fines.)
For me, since there have been so many "this will lead to Trump's downfall" stories in the media over the last couple of years that haven't panned out, I'll wait to see how this one (and the next, and the one after that) develops before getting outraged. There will be plenty of time for concern if and when one of these stories ever turns out to be more than a media wet dream.
Great comment I saw on Twitter:
"Is Mueller really just working for the IRS and auditing anyone who has been in contact with Trump? I thought he was supposed to be looking into Russian collusion."
Hard to argue with this observation.
Tom T. said...
PJ Media's morning briefing today described yesterday as a "news bonanza," so I think the charge that the right wing is ignoring it is unfounded.
And Ms. Althouse herself has highlighted Drudge's front page. Stanley-Becker needs to stick his head outside is protective cocoon once in a while is he doesn't want to look like an idiot while talking about people who aren't him.
Meanwhile, Hillary, Podesta and Menendez are still free..... because D!
I think Cohen is probably a pretty big deal. I'm not sure how Manafort is a big deal. But the problem is that the media had about the same amount of enthusiasm and frenzy for Cohen as they did for Omarosa. It really makes it hard to discern. Cohen and Lanny Davis are saying a lot of things that could be appealing to The Resistance, but is it because it's true or because they have a GoFundme? I'm in wait and see mode.
I've hardly paid attention because it's not relevant to anything but the Democrat's political ambitions.
Plus I do this..
I didn’t comment yesterday, but I too found your reaction odd/misplaced.
The young lady’s disappearance (and the search for her) had been breaking news and lead story status for a couple of weeks. Including on CNN if I recall correctly. I would have expected news that she was found dead and that an arrest had been made would also have received that same focus. But it sure seemed like it got pushed aside. Was it because the other news was that much more newsworthy? Because they didn’t want to highlight the obviously relevant fact of the suspect being an illegal immigrant? Left biased MSM? Something else?
Whatever the reason(s) it was noticeable at least to me (and I suspect many others). Makes you go “hmmm”
And your reaction to it made me go “hmmm” as well.
Republican family hires illegal alien for years of under the table work, after many years he kills someone.
Clearly the problem is Democrats. What don't you get, Ann?
You cannot support Trump unless you bury your head in the sand when talking points demand it.
@Althouse, you are the only left of center blogger I am aware of who makes an honest effort to pay attention to the other side. Right of center doesn’t count; that’s just an echo chamber. My wife chuckles when I hit “Publish” saying “This time Althouse will ban me for sure.” But you never have. You seem genuinely interested in what we have to say and in our reactions to what you’ve written. And I honor you for that.
"Well Ann, the question is how real is the Managort story, or the Cohen story."
It's certainly absolutely real that Manafort was found guilty on many of the charges against him and that Cohen pleaded guilty.
I don't like the way the liberal media covered the stories either, but they belonged on top, especially as they came out virtually simultaneously. I'm annoyed by the way everyone covered it, but the part that made me groan out loud was that lady on "The Five" who kept repeating the talking point about the murder victim. The whole what-the-American-people-care-about bit. It was especially disgusting because it wasn't real concern for the poor woman who died but using her as a means to a political end.
Mollie Tibbetts v. Campaign violations? Let's talk about both topics. The former was nationally covered when she disappeared. But once we find out the murderer was illegal we now must ignore the story. It was more than a local news story from the start. Drudge is reminding us that the Obama campaign was fined $375,000 for campaign violations.
And yes to what AlbertAnonymous said. My hippie radio station has been including the girl's disappearance in their news update. Only reason I knew about it before yesterday.
Maybe people are upset because "big news day" is too vague and says nothing about what's big about it. The headlines are about convictions and pleas, but the biggest thing to come out of it, as some commenters have noticed, is purely political: Michael Cohen read a statement suggesting that Trump initiated payoffs which were intended to influence an election. We may recoil at the murder of an innocent young woman being politicized, but EVERYTHING is politicized now, including our law enforcement and judicial process.
"Well Ann I disagree. I am angry about Mollie Tibbetts murderer, but don’t give a damn about Manafort or Cohen."
What do you expect them to say? "OMG, Trump is a scumbag. I wish I voted for Hillary!" You have a fair number of dead enders here that wouldn't withdraw support for Trump under any circumstances.
The Five is not a news show. It does not do reporting. It is an opinion show.
The measure of an event is how much it will hurt or help Trump. It's not the right who've made this the calculus of newsworthiness.
The idea that anyone at the Washington Post gives a flying front hole about whether something in the news they publish is objectively true or not is ridiculous. They're Progs. The basis of their entire belief system is that they, as credentialed members of the goodsmart, have a moral obligation to lie to the rest of us as needed for the greater good of all mankind.
More people saw my neighbor standing in her underwear in front of her bathroom window than watched cable news yesterday.
The same can be said of the left-wing media universe. They've been calling for the impeachment of Trump for 18 months now. Indeed, we still get fantasy stories that if Trump can be impeached on election grounds, then perhaps Republicans will see fit to seat Hillary as President rather than follow the law and put in Mike Pence.
And on any of these days, does the left-wing media universe discuss Strozk writing an exoneration of Hillary and having it reviewed by Comey, even before the interview the key suspect? Or what about the similarities of the Wisconsin John Doe raids on Republicans and the SDNY raid on Cohen? Any discussion that Rosenstein sent a written recommendation to Trump to fire Comey, and then when Trump took the advice; Rosenstein appointing Mueller to investigate Russian Collusion and Obstruction of Justice?
Alas, Trump has been running on protecting our borders since his first stump speech. It has indeed resonated on the Right, because we are tired of seeing the crime committed by "undocumented" immigrants. I've been a victim of it. It's very hard to file a vehicle collision claim against a person that doesn't have a license or any other form of ID, doesn't have insurance, doesn't drive a registered vehicle, but does have a phone to call family to pick them up before the police arrive. It's easy for me to understand the concern people have about this.
So you comment that Tibbetts is only in the news because she is an attractive white woman that went missing. Well a year ago, there was a story of a young immigrant Muslim girl that went missing. There stories of it all over the national news. Until they caught a suspect and it turned out he was illegal immigrant and likely a member of MS-13. Then it became a local news discussion.
Yet while just local news, Democrats as infamous as Nancy Pelosi has stated that MS-13 members should be shown some leniency. And other Democrats have called for abolishing ICE. There's been discussion of making these national issues for the mid-term elections. So it would seem this should be national news, no? But I guess it matters if it is right-wing media or left-wing media.
As for Cohen, should we dig up the claims of over-charging by prosecutors made during the Obama Administration? I'm ignoring Manafort, because he was convicted of crimes totally unrelated to Trump and because the left-wing media totally ignores the relationship of those crimes to the Podesta's. So back to Cohen, he has admitted guilt to a crime that the FEC doesn't consider a crime. That is interesting. Is the Left-Wing media covering that aspect?
I would have cared just as much if a black or Asian girl had been murdered by an illegal immigrant. Because I am not racist.
Not like our hostess.
Althouse reaction was an OMFG moment for me.
"White girl" Remember.
Mark said...
"Republican family hires illegal alien for years of under the table work, after many years he kills someone."
It was reported that the farmer who hired the illegal put him into the E-Verify system and the system verified the illegal as OK.
The illegal immigrant murderer will be more important to midterms than manafort or cohen.
I would call my pushback populist rather than right-wing. The average American, Republican and Democrat, doesn't understand and doesn't care about the Mueller probe; it's important only to chattering-class elites like you and I. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, only that it is.
The Manafort decision should have everyone quaking in their boots. I mean, if you can get up to 30 years in jail for misstating your income on a loan application even if you're keeping up with the payments on the loan, there are a LOT of people that could be in trouble. Think about all those bad mortgages from 2000 to 2008...all those people on the dock for 30 years of Federal prison time.
WaPo wrote a big story on how irrelevant the cohen plea will be. WaPo wrote this.
It was especially disgusting because it wasn't real concern for the poor woman who died but using her as a means to a political end.
I'm sorry, Professor. You posted this while I was typing away. I do agree with this.
I felt the same way about Nabra Hassansen, particularly because of the speculation, while she was still missing, that it was her religion that played a part. And that this was then a story, particularly so recent to the Charlottesville incident. And you and I should feel disgusted, as when Nabra's murderer was caught; his inability to fit the previous narrative meant the media no longer cared that the young girl was killed.
By the way, the last time the media spent the end of summer talking about a missing young lady who ended up dead or about a questionably (s)elected President; we had a bad September.
And FWIW I really do believe that the media deliberately bury stories about criminal acts by illegal aliens. The Kate Steinle story would have been casually forgotten if not for public outrage.
"In Trump’s right-wing media universe, it was a day like any other."
As your Drudge link showed, even their reporting on the news is fake news.
Of course, it was not a "day like any other": we are well aware of the continuing attack on Trump and recognize that his attackers got two scalps.
Of course, we also disagree about the significance of those scalps: Manafort is the victim of selective prosecution for things done long before he associated with Trump, and in the Cohen case it is not clear if Trump himself committed any campaign finance law violations--and even if he did, whether they outweighed much larger-scale violations that got minor sanctions when committed by, say, the O campaign in the recent past.
What progs don't get is that there is no cocoon for deplorables.
The long and the short of all this is: None of the events that occurred yesterday moved the needle one way or another. People who liked Trump will continue to like him and think all this stuff is unimportant, just the latest feeble attempt of the swamp's "witch hunt". People who hated Trump will be convinced that this is just the beginning of the end. And nobody really switched sides.
When the hack press do mention the children kept in filthy starving conditions in New Mexico, no mention of the Islamic radicals who were holding them captive.
of course the focus is on the poor poor Islamic radicals who might have to wear ankle brackets while they are released.
Althouse: I got a lot of pushback for criticizing Fox for putting an Iowa murder story at the top of the news on such a big national news day.
Althouse is playing a little revisionist history here. From her original post that elicited the "pushback":
On Fox News — "The Five" — there's too much talk about the Iowa murder case, with a suspect who's been in the country illegally, and how this might be what ordinary Americans really care about. I was groaning aloud at this labored effort.
Althouse's original post wasn't about story prioritization at the news desk, but a talk show's decision about what "ordinary Americans really care about".
Moreover, Althouse followed-up with a comment that implied a racial tinge to what those "Americans really care about".
Althouse: I hate all murder, but why is one local murder story made a national news story and put in competition with important new developments in presidential legal troubles? Murder stories seem to be selected for special coverage when there are lovely photographs of a young white woman.
Yet, as one of the people who provided "pushback" in last nights cafe, I pointed out Althouse's failure to grasp what makes the illegal immigrant murder story unique: the utter sense of preventability. How many homicides can you say were preventable in the way you can say a homicide by a person in the country illegally was preventable, in many cases due to the mis/malfeasance of those in office?
EDH said...
Althouse overlooks the sense of utter preventability occasioned by a homicide at the hands of a person who should not be inside the country in the first place.
Moreover, for a talk show discussion, the murder was a breaking "mystery solved" story, not tangled legal-imbroglio-begnning story.
"The Five is not a news show. It does not do reporting. It is an opinion show."
They do a good job of blending opinion and entertainment. The leftwing talk shows on CNN and MSNBC are way to serious ... not to mention delusional.
The Manafort case would barely get news coverage if not his link to Trump. Actually, we would not be discussing this case at all if not for the Mueller investigation. The government knew he was doing illegal things for years and didn't care. I suppose if the Mueller investigation is the most important thing ever, the fact that they managed to partially accomplish something that was considered a waste of time by the prior administration is... something?
The Cohen story is interesting but only in the sense that he knows something that we don't know and it is an important something. The fact that Trump pays off his sexual conquests is distasteful certainly but something we already knew. We knew Cohen was a scumbag, the sort of bagman that people like Trump hire to deal with the unpleasant requirements in his line of work. Claiming that this is an illegal campaign contribution is laughable. The fact that Cohen started a GoFundMe page to pay for his legal bills and is now claiming he knows stuff makes it seem like a farce.
I dunno. It seems most of the Cohen and especially the Manafort stories is wish fulfillment for the media's political desires as opposed to really important stories. The Cohen story could be a really important story, but at the moment it just seems like one of those run of the mill "someone associated with the President is a jerk" stories which appear in every administration.
You know, there was another day that wasn't like any other day. Remember the hype of Comey testifying before Congress? It was like Christmas to the Left-Wing media; until their present was opened to reveal a lump of coal. Then it was a day just like any other day.
Trump will weather this tempest in a pee-pot like he weathers all of them. The left and its co-conspirators, the Media, are in the death throes of a demonic possession. Their collective head is doing 180s with regularity.
A month from now we’ll be back to Stormy or wherever we are in the cycle. And three months from now a newly-minted, much more Trump-friendly Republican Congress will begin to show some spine. This demon is coming out slowly because it is legion and plus, it had a good run.
Well I happen to think that the Mollie Tibbetts story IS an important one. I am not wishing for it go away. And I don't think it will. An arrest, or a charging document, is just the beginning of that story with much more to come. Unless of course you are someone for whom guilt of the accused illegal alien is now presumed.
I agree with Althouse. Within the hour that Cohen pleads guilty and Manafort is convicted, THEY (and Trump) are the headline. Anything else seemed labored.
And to be sure, the feeling of Althouse's comment-page critics had to have been whether the Cohen-Manafort proceedings should be given any coverage at all; a hope that the Mollie Tibbetts story could push its way ahead and deflect from Cohen-Manafort. It's not necessary to choose which story is covered. It was only necessary to decide which story is covered first.
But Althouse; welcome to the world of your comments pages.
How dare they talk about a young woman murdered by an illegal alien when the #resistance thinks they've got the goods on Trump!!! (and not about selling out our country to Russia as the #resistance told us he did - but about paying hush money out of his own funds to a stripper to keep quiet about the affair they had (because that was out of character for him and it would sway the election? lolz!)
If [Trump] went online shortly before 4 p.m., the only “BREAKING NEWS” alert he would have seen was the one from Fox...
This is obviously a lie. I have it on good authority that Trump only gets his news from The Gorilla Channel.
You have a fair number of dead enders here that wouldn't withdraw support for Trump under any circumstances.
As long as the alternative is pretty much Hillary, whose rap sheet goes back 40 years and makes Trump look like a choir boy, then it would take a lot more than a rhetorical question asked by Hillary Clinton's hatchet man Lanny Davis.
The more I think about the statement that Cohen read, the creepier the whole thing gets.
The whole what-the-American-people-care-about bit. It was especially disgusting because it wasn't real concern for the poor woman who died but using her as a means to a political end.
So how is that any different from every other topic that news purveyors don't care about but use as a means to a political end? Both the young woman's murder and the Manafort/Cohen stuff will be hyped and used to political ends.
All you're saying here is that you, personally, feel more disgust at this instance of attempt at political manipulation, rather than that instance - for reasons having to do with what issues you, personally, consider to be relatively more important.
Fine, whatever. You're just annoying people with your typical double-down insistence that your personal issue-priorities and disgust reactions reflect what's really important, what people should be paying attention to.
"not every day that someone claims they committed a crime at the direction of a person running for office."
What was the crime. Statute please. It's an honest question. So far it doesn't seem like one to me. I could be wrong and you're super smart.
Dairy farmers love to underpay illegal aliens, that is true. In Vermont they are mostly Democrats.
Mark said...
Republican family hires illegal alien for years of under the table work, after many years he kills someone.
Clearly the problem is Democrats. What don't you get, Ann?
You cannot support Trump unless you bury your head in the sand when talking points demand it.
Do you have a source for your accusation???
Because this is covered on the local news, yes the connection to a Republican candidate for some state office (Sec of Ag?), and the FACT that e-verify was used to hire this illegal alien.That would be actions taken by a Republican that follow the law. Why e-verify failed is yet to be investigated. So you are guilty of getting your news from your facebook feed, and shame on you. Or, your default position is to lie in your attempt to smear good people for no other reason than their politics. So I think I know where your head is buried (hint, the politically correct term is now 'rear hole')
While we are using the death of Mollie Tibbetts as a political point on Fox, or else where, it is interesting to note the dairy farm where Cristhian Bahena Rivera worked,the Yarrabee Farm, is owned by Craig Lang a prominent farmer and politician and. Republican who claimed Rivera was in good standing.That said this is a tragedy. But as former Fox News military analyst Ralph Peter said," people who only listen to Fox had an utterly skewed view of reality." In terms of the convictions of Cohen and Manafort and the rest of the criminals in the Trump orbit the story deserved the top half of the fold; it is not every day that someone claims they committed a crime at the direction of a person running for office.( Cohen acknowledged making illegal payments while breaking campaign finance laws).
"Unless of course you are someone for whom guilt of the accused illegal alien is now presumed."
I thought he confessed and led police to the body?
r/V: But as former Fox News military analyst Ralph Peter said," people who only listen to Fox had an utterly skewed view of reality."
No shit, r/V. Anybody who takes any MSM outlet at face value, or doesn't pursue information outside his ideological gated-neighborhood, is going to have "an utterly skewed view of reality". Just look at the comments on the WaPo or the NYT for sterling examples of that phenomenon.
The problem with the left demanding we be outraged about this is all the things I was outraged about that they didn't give a damn about. The weaponzing of the IRS against conservative groups, the shocking mismanagement of the diplomat's security in Benghazi that led to the deaths of Americans (and the lies they told to cover up their mismanagement of it), Obama's knowningly lying about Obamacare (let me be perfectly clear, you can keep your doctor/plan period!), the mismanagement of our immigration system, etc, etc, etc.
I was a reluctant Trump voter. I voted for him in the end because I thought I'd get better judges and polices out of him, and I have not been disappointed. I knew his character when I voted for him - we all did. Discovering that he sleazily had an affair with another sleazy person and paid her money to shut her up sounds in character for the man. He didn't need to pay her a cent - we already know his character.
I remember the right going after Bill Clinton for his affair with the intern (he lied about it!) was distasteful and petty. I thought the left agreed with me. Apparently, its situational for most people.
What was the crime.
campaign finance laws. same stuff John Edwards got indicted for.
Ralph Peter said," people who only listen to Fox had an utterly skewed view of reality."
You can say the same for people who consume news only from CNN or from MSNBC (or, sadly the late night comedy shows where, I'm told, many millennials get the majority of their news)
The Cohen tape is not helpful to the president, but because of the structure of campaign-finance rules, it may not be conclusive. The question for legal purposes is whether Trump would have made this payment even if he had not been a candidate.
Trump would argue that even if he had powerful political reasons to hide the McDougal relationship, he also had personal ones. . - The Atlantic
So Cohen, placed under extreme duress by Mueller, has confessed to what was in Trump's heart. OK.
wwww said...
What was the crime.
campaign finance laws. same stuff John Edwards got indicted for.
Edwards used campaign funds. And he was not convicted.
campaign finance laws. same stuff John Edwards got indicted for.
I think the "crime" was beating Hillary. I don't see a lot of citation of actual laws. Edward paid off his side squeeze with unreported contributions from other people, even though he was rich himself.
"The Five is not a news show. It does not do reporting. It is an opinion show."
The subject is "right-wing media" not solely news. I don't think the underlying article or what I said about it is confined to news more specifically. The underlying article is focused on what's within Trump's personal experience, what he exposes himself to, and I'm talking about what I saw yesterday. The commentary shows select what issues to talk about, what works in their mix. Why was that murder put in the mix with the other stories? The Five treated it like the question was: What will the American people care about? How will this affect electoral politics going forward?
"But Althouse; welcome to the world of your comments pages."
Chuckles wants to make sure that every single person who reads this blog knows that he is a pompous asshole.
Edwards used campaign funds. And he was not convicted.
I am aware of that. The question was which laws? You can't get indicted and tried unless there's a law.
btw Trump can't get indicted because he's president & above the law for now.
This is one more "steppenwolf." It looks like a wolf in the misty distance, everybody is sure it's a wolf, but when you get close it's just one more clump of grass.
"The question was which laws?"
I am sure R/V, junior member of his League of Extraordinary Gentlemen reading group and epic consumer of highbrow history and philosophy can explain it to us. Or maybe all of that philosophy just goes in one ear and out the other...
iowan2: Because this is covered on the local news, yes the connection to a Republican candidate for some state office (Sec of Ag?), and the FACT that e-verify was used to hire this illegal alien.That would be actions taken by a Republican that follow the law. Why e-verify failed is yet to be investigated. So you are guilty of getting your news from your facebook feed, and shame on you.
Nah, Mark is just a dope. The rest follows from that.
But hey, I'm all for a heavy-duty investigation into why illegal aliens keep getting hired for whatever reasons, and by whom, Republican or Democrat. Expose the hell out of all of 'em who know exactly what they've been doing. (You know, not just the guys who apparently made a good faith effort at using e-verify, but only if they happen to be Republicans.) I'm sure Mark, and righteous leftie investigative reporters, are all for clearing out that rat's nest, right?
I don't see a lot of citation of actual laws.
I'm not a expert on this law. Cohen's court statements to the judge are on line.
Edwards could not have been indicted if there was no law. The question is then put before the jury if a law was broken in specific circumstances. That is a detail question that I cannot answer. It is answered through evidence & jury deliberation.
Mana fort would not be in court but for his association, no matter how brief, with Trump.
I'm not a "dead ender" in a commenters slur, but I am depressed to see this slow motion coup going on for so long with no real basis. If Trump were failing, I would be very quick to dismiss him. He is not, yet the coup goes on.
It is pretty discouraging to see this when there are real issues to deal with.
Edwards could not have been indicted if there was no law.
Other people used their own money to pay off his mistress, which was then construed as an unreported campaign contribution. So it's not anything like the same thing. In fact, one wonders what the charges would have been had the money been Edwards' own.
wwww said...
"Unless of course you are someone for whom guilt of the accused illegal alien is now presumed."
I thought he confessed and led police to the body?
Well, I said that the guy is "accused" because that is the one correct way to categorize him right now. He'll be the "confessed" killer when that part of the process occurs.
See, I am not going to argue that the guy is innocent, although he should enjoy that presumption as a technical matter.
But as far as I am aware, the guy told a weird story about encountering her, then sort of not knowing what happened for a period of time, then finding her bleeding body in the trunk of his car, then depositing the body. It's weird, and incredible. So again, you make a good point in this context. But there will be much more to come in the case, and I am just fine with it being the second most important story in the national news for the space of about 24 hours, after which it might become the most important story for a while.
I'm not a "dead ender" in a commenters slur,
It's way easier to call you a dead ender than it is to refute your arguments or answer your questions. It seems like the real dead enders here are the people who can't accept that Hillary lost. Here they still quote her hatchet man Lanny Davis as if he hadn't completely squandered his credibility defending the Clintons through thick and thin.
We knew the fix was in when he became Cohen's lawyer.
Chuck, you are a lawyer. What law did Cohen break?
I guess I'd say "confessed to the police" but yeah, agreed it's not to the point of going before a judge. I'd be surprised if it went to trial, but maybe it will.
"The Five is not a news show. It does not do reporting. It is an opinion show."
Here lies the rub.
Either this is a news show, or, there are exactly zero news shows in existence.
Either any one that makes a post on on a blog, ( ie our Hostess), is a journalist, or there is no such thing as a journalist.
I get cranky when a person the works for, say, the NYT, looks down their nose at someone (Drudge) and says, 'they're not a journalist, they dont have freedom of the press protections' like there is some test that creates this elite class of information purveyors.
i am not a expert but from popehat's twitter feed:
52 USC §30109(d)(1)(A)(i) & §30118(a) make it a federal crime to knowingly and willfully violate federal campaign finance law by causing a corporation to make a contribution of more than $25,000 to a presidential campaign.
What would come out if a special counsel, backed up by the media, dug into the Clinton's affairs in this way? Do you think any payoffs would come to light?
Americans have a congenital hatred for double standards. It's a fundamental motivating factor in Trump support.
Are we going to do this to every newly elected President from now on? Or just Republican winners?
It was a morning like any other as Bob loaded up the car with dynamite for a day of bass fishing.
make it a federal crime to knowingly and willfully violate federal campaign finance law by causing a corporation to make a contribution of more than $25,000 to a presidential campaign.
It's not knowingly because it's not a contribution to a presidential campaign. If it counts as one, they didn't know it. The intricacy of an argument to make it a contribution proves it's not known.
Scott Adams's argument: everything that you do to make yourself look good would have to count as a contribution to your campaign, for the argument to go through.
Clothes, teeth whitening
Michael K said...
Mana fort would not be in court but for his association, no matter how brief, with Trump.
I'm not a "dead ender" in a commenters slur, but I am depressed to see this slow motion coup going on for so long with no real basis. If Trump were failing, I would be very quick to dismiss him. He is not, yet the coup goes on.
It is pretty discouraging to see this when there are real issues to deal with.
Federal felonies ARE real issues. And you, Michael K., were one of the ones who seemed so certain that Manafort would never be found guilty anyway. A jury convicted Manafort, after a trial that Manafort's lawyer called "fair."
The fact that bad shit has happened to Paul Manafort after associating with Donald Trump is no surprise to me; is it a surprise to anybody? Any former business partner of Trump's; any bank that loaned him money; fellow team owners when Trump dabbled in the USFL; employees of any of his many failed businesses; students of Trump University; his ex-wives; they have all been made to feel sorry for having gotten involved with Trump.
rhhardin said...
Scott Adams's argument: everything that you do to make yourself look good would have to count as a contribution to your campaign, for the argument to go through.
Clothes, teeth whitening
LOL at Scott Adams!
Remember, Adams' going out of his mind when the FBI's public corruption agents executed the search warrant on Cohen's home and office? "I no longer care about the fucking law," is what Adams said.
And now, not only does he look stupid but the warrant looks to have been well-vetted. Cohen pleads guilty, just like the warrant application probably suggested.
(eaglebeak)
"Mollie Tibbetts' murder is going to enrage a lot of people. Like me. In 2015, when Kate Steinle was murdered by an illegal alien, no politician said a word until candidate Trump began slamming it, slamming our laws, etc. That started momentum that carried him all the way to the White House. I'm willing to bet that people--like me--would rather have him and his policies in the White House than hear about what dodgy Michael Cohen had to say to buy five years."
I am amused at being quoted at such length, but honestly, I consider myself, not a part of the right-wing universe (not even a "very small part of the right-wing universe"), but just a part of the universe.
Count 7 unlawful corporate contribution and Count 8 excessive campaign contribution. A court allowed the information to be entered. I'm not an expert. All i know is that the court accepted these counts.
If Trump were failing, I would be very quick to dismiss him.
Failing how? GDP growth rate?
tim in vermont said...
Chuck, you are a lawyer. What law did Cohen break?
HERE is your answer in the form of Cohen's written allocution, signed by both Cohen and his attorney, plus the charging document from the U.S. Attorney's office for the SDNY.
To clarify some terms. Conspiracy and collusion are synonomous. Two or more persons acting in concert. The legal question is whether the conspiracy/collusion had an unlawful objective or had a lawful objective carried out by unlawful means. Distinguishing conspiracy and collusion is akin to distinguishing between contract and agreement, both of which are also synonomous with conspiracy and collusion.
The commentary shows select what issues to talk about, what works in their mix. Why was that murder put in the mix with the other stories?
Because there was a breaking event in which the missing person story became a murder event, in which a suspect, who identified the burial location, was caught, and seems to be a person that also violated our immigration laws and was wanted by ICE.
The Five treated it like the question was: What will the American people care about?
Probably because "The Five" noticed the only opinion poll that ever matters. Donald Trump ran as a candidate, from the beginning, with a central focus on immigration to stop these crimes. He is now President. That seems to suggest American people care about these crimes.
How will this affect electoral politics going forward?
What was the result of the last election, where emphasis was placed on stopping crimes by illegal immigrants?
Note that the Sherman Act makes unlawful "every contract, combination, .. or conspiracy, in restraint of trade ..." Courts have held the three terms have the same meaning.
I have to admit, I'm a bit subdued today. The Blue Jays with their mediocre play have affected my mood all summer, and now Mueller/Manafort/Cohen. Andrew McCarthy has a nice, judicious presentation as always: Congress can impeach basically for anything they want; Mueller is probably providing them with some ammunition. If McCarthy were advising Congress (I'm paraphrasing), he would say the campaign finance laws are rarely enforced with any real toughness, and the worst one can say about Trump-Manafort (so far) is that Trump was foolish to hire Manafort to a high-profile position in a presidential campaign. As the Jimmy Kimmel post also reminds us, Trump has made other foolish hiring decisions.
I'm still impressed that Trump sheds a light, advertently and inadvertently, on problems in Washington, and the rogue federal prosecutor is one of those problems.
It should be illegal to demand payment or another benefit from someone in return for not revealing compromising or damaging information about them.
Oh, wait. . .
I'm sure Mueller will be all over that.
“I think Cohen is probably a pretty big deal.”
Not really. From CTH:
Yeah, let’s review.
Within the plea agreement the first five charges relate to tax avoidance, or tax evasion. Each count relates to a specific tax year: 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016. The sixth charge, a bank fraud charge, relates to lying on a credit application. These six charges appear valid, documented and agreed in the plea. The seventh charge, relates to structuring financial transactions through the use of a corporation. This charge is tenuous, but arguable.
However, the eighth charge is the one the media are focused on. The charge of an illegal campaign contribution:
This Count Eight transaction surrounds a payment to Stephanie Clifford (Stormy Daniels) of $130,000 for a nuisance claim. Who says it is a campaign contribution? The SDNY does, no-one else. Not even the FEC considers this a campaign contribution.
Keep in mind that a large number of the SDNY prosecutors were hired by Dems, notably Preet Bahara and Loretta Lynch, as SDNY USAs, who controlled hiring there for eight years, up until a year and a half ago. This interpretation of the campaign finance laws has never been litigated, never accepted by the FEC. No precedential value whatsoever. It is merely something that Cohen had to agree to to get the deal that he got. We don’t know how many other charges were dropped, nor how many years of prison were dropped to get his agreement. Bottom line - big nothingberger included for partisan political reasons.
Uh oh; CNN decided to cover the Mollie Tibbitts story, and invite the Senator known for lying about her Native American heritage. The Senator suggests the Tibbitts need to quit worrying about their daughter, and worry about "real problems" like immigrants being kept from their children.
So for the left-wing media; yesterday was like any other day. And that is fine; it is how we got Trump.
Hi Althouse,
The entire Steele Dossier came about from the Clinton Campaign laundering money through their law firm to pay off Fusion GPS.
They violated campaign finance law by illegally reporting their contributions as "legal fees", for the purpose of winning the election.
This is Coehn's / Trump's "crime", except in Trump's case, he was paying off a blackmailer to keep his wife from finding out, which has nothing to do with the election.
Whereas there's no grey area on the Clinton money laundering.
So, sorry, but any "reporting" on Cohen that doesn't cover the Clinton campaign crimes is just worthless political propaganda, not actual news.
Now, let's see, what's more important? Paul Manafort was convicted of income tax evasion for actions he did a decade before he worked for Trump?
Or an illegal immigrant was caught having murdered an American?
I chose the latter. But them, I'm not obsessed with Trump, or with Trump hatred.
And I actually value the lives of my fellow Americans.
Top Stories on my googlenews 1) Cohen 2) Mexican Murdered Molly 3) Manafort 4) Hurricaine Nathan Lane on track to put out Hawaii Volcano
Edwards used campaign funds. And he was not convicted.
Edwards used money from a rich supporter named Bunny Mellon (yes, it's true); the jury concluded they were not campaign funds.
Seems to be at least two standards of justice.
Aswan has been punished enough! Amazing.
Mollie Tibbetts' dominated the news while she was missing, and now the murderer is an illegal, is being memory holed. I was not sure why it was so big in the news, but now it's not. Strange.
The only reason Cohen and Manafort were prosecuted was because of their relationship to Trump. Going after Trump's lawyer is a new low. I have read people leaving the Trump Administration are having hard times getting jobs. This seems to be "Show Me The Man, And I'll Show You The Crime" - Lavrentiy Beria, and that is not supposed to be the US Court System.
With some reflection I think this can be a teachable moment for Althouse: 20 percent of America cares more about developments in the Mueller probe; 80 percent of America cares more about someone’s daughter snatched from the cornfields of Iowa, raped, and murdered by an illegal immigrant.
There’s nothing wrong with being in the 20 percent, but you should have enough self-awareness to know that you differ from the 80 percent -- David Foster Wallace’s “What the hell is water?” analogy and all that.
“This is Coehn's / Trump's "crime", except in Trump's case, he was paying off a blackmailer to keep his wife from finding out, which has nothing to do with the election.”
Even if it had been for getting elected, it wouldn’t have been illegal. First, candidates can spend whatever they want of their own money to get elected. First Amdt. Secondly, if this is illegal, then so is buying a new car, or new clothes, for running for election, and if the candidate can spend whatever they want, then this case, if it were precedential, would prevent any car dealer from selling a candidate a new car over the campaign limits (since the payment was ultimately made by the candidate with his own money).
You know who really lost out in yesterday's news cycle? David Hogg.
Static Ping said...
"The Manafort case would not have happened if not his link to Trump.
FIFY.
In the Cohen case, Trump was paying off a blackmailer, wasn't he? Could Stormy ever be tried for blackmail? Avenetti?
This has happened so many times, it's getting very predictable. The question I always ask is, "How will Trump pull a rabbit out of the hat this time?" Because he always does.
The pleas and verdicts of Cohen and Manafort are legitimate news stories. But as always, the media has to go over the top and virtually proclaim, "We've got him now!" They can't stop exposing themselves, with all their biases. Which is why no one except leftwing partisans takes them seriously.
To name another recent example, the separation of children from their parents is a legitimate news story. Fine, let's have an honest discussion about it. But no, the story must be framed as anti-Trump as possible, to deliberately whip up hysteria. So regular citizens just tune out, because they know the media is not acting in good faith.
Meanwhile, Trump emerges unscathed, and his approval ratings go up. May it long continue.
Think about the difference here. In the case of Crooked Hillary, using campaign cash to buy dirt on Trump from a Brit and some Russians, that was ultimately used to start the Mueller investigation, that essentially got this conviction for using Trump’s personal money for a non campaign expense (even though he could have legally used his own money for campaign expenses under the 1st Amdt)
52 USC §30109(d)(1)(A)(i) & §30118(a) make it a federal crime to knowingly and willfully violate federal campaign finance law by causing a corporation to make a contribution of more than $25,000 to a presidential campaign.
Except that he had perfectly good reasons to pay her off absent his candidacy. Undeniably so. Cohen has confessed to what was in Trump's heart.
Did Hillary charge her Depends as a campaign expense?
Because not having a brown bottom adds value to ant political campaign. Did she disclose that value on the proper form?
I guess that the theory of a crime also takes into account that Stormy saw the campaign as leverage for blackmail. Therefore Stormy's motivations are Trump's motivations. I think we are getting into the No Reasonable Prosecutor area here, because the whole law depends on unprovable intent.
Cohen was let go with ill-gotten gains for this denouncement of Trump.
That' doesn't stink to liberals because getting rid of Trump is more important than keeping the police powers of the government restrained by respect for the law.
Even Uncle Joe Stalin wouldn't have settled for the confession of another person to a crime. Those are a dime a dozen if you can bring enough pressure to bear.
And if the money did come from a Trump owned corporation, it is probable that he took it as a disbursement, but if he paid it out as an expense and tried to take it off the corporations taxes, well, that's an own goal.
But next we will be limited as to what we can with our money if a corporation wrote our paycheck.
This is one more steppenwolf.
A day from a left-wing universe, selective, opportunistic, and politically congruent.
Pro-Choice is a doctrine of selective-child, [color] diversity, and other transhuman policies practices by the Twilight fringe. Another baby, another life aborted, while a witch hunt is conducted for retroactive crimes forced by a violent coup where democracy, men, women, and children died for social progress.
Chuck said...Chuck said...Well, I said that the guy is "accused" because that is the one correct way to categorize him right now. He'll be the "confessed" killer when that part of the process occurs.
See, I am not going to argue that the guy is innocent, although he should enjoy that presumption as a technical matter.
--
Oh kee doke. Yeah..anything could have happened during his blackout. Best to comment per the letter of the law.
Blogger tim in vermont said...
"Except that he had perfectly good reasons to pay her off absent his candidacy."
As that upright straight-shooter, pussy-hatted Comey has articulated with faux disgust.
"Blogger Bruce Hayden said...
Think about the difference here. In the case of Crooked Hillary, using campaign cash to buy dirt on Trump from a Brit and some Russians, that was ultimately used to start the Mueller investigation"
Hey you..that's "dead-ender" talk.
Chuck,
Did you pick up a Mudd shirt?
https://www.philmudd.com/
Maybe one as a gift to Durbin.
It bears repeating, so I’ll echo it.
"I kind of do care about murder more than I care about selectively prosecuted financial crimes. Both are bad -- but dead bodies should perhaps get more of our focus."
I'm predicting a big red wave in November. Trump is a winner, liberals are losers.
The biggest mistake Trump has made was nominating Jeff Sessions for Attorney General. It becomes clearer every day.
"The biggest mistake Trump has made was nominating Jeff Sessions for Attorney General. It becomes clearer every day."
Unless they running a sting so as to round up all the deep state bad guys(dimms) which is what stealth Jeff thinks, I'm skeptical.
https://threadreaderapp.com/user/drawandstrike
Blah blah blah.
You can't improve on this:
Earnest Prole said...
With some reflection I think this can be a teachable moment for Althouse: 20 percent of America cares more about developments in the Mueller probe; 80 percent of America cares more about someone’s daughter snatched from the cornfields of Iowa, raped, and murdered by an illegal immigrant.
Trump is going to shut down the government unless they fund the wall.
Mueller is going to be humiliated on the 28th.
The indictments will start rolling out in October.
The 2nd special counsel is going to be awesome.
Have fun when republicans pick up seats in both chambers in November.
Sometimes I wish the power would go out again (as it did recently for 4 days due to a wildfire) just so I could get a reprieve from being inundated with the stupidity of the news, hysterical Democrats and the general idiocy of people in general. (Internet fire challenge)
I mean, I don't want to be totally out of touch, but it was so much more peaceful and relaxing to not have this constant inane chatter.
Note to self: proofread before posting :-|
With some reflection I think this can be a teachable moment for Althouse: 20 percent of America cares more about developments in the Mueller probe; 80 percent of America cares more about someone’s daughter snatched from the cornfields of Iowa, raped, and murdered by an illegal immigrant.
I'm pretty sure Ann falls in the 20% group.
The biggest mistake Trump has made was nominating Jeff Sessions for Attorney General. It becomes clearer every day.
Agreed. Not only has he been less than worthless as an AG, it cost the Rs a Senate seat.
I'm pretty sure Ann falls in the 20% group.
As I noted, the problem is not that Althouse is in the minority (as am I), but that she’s clueless what the vast majority of her fellow citizens think. Even Pauline Kael displayed more self-awareness in her famous comment on Nixon’s re-election.
Earnest Prole said...
I'm pretty sure Ann falls in the 20% group.
As I noted, the problem is not that Althouse is in the minority (as am I), but that she’s clueless what the vast majority of her fellow citizens think. Even Pauline Kael displayed more self-awareness in her famous comment on Nixon’s re-election.
Ann sometimes shows signs of piercing the bubble that clouds her view.
We all watched for 30+ years while democrats did everything they are accusing Trump of doing.
It isn't going to surprise nearly as many people this time though. Trump is actually forcing the GOP to try to win.
Given Trump's performance the people who voted for him all more strongly support him.
Half the people who voted for McMuffin did so because they thought he wouldn't be conservative enough and cave on immigration/taxes etc. They are fully on the Trump train now.
The other half that "voted" for McMuffin have been outed as democrat traitors and voted for Hillary anyway.
Trump is going to peel 20+% of the black vote from the democrats. This puts states like New Jersey in play.
The beltway is going to try to burn it all down. If they can't have the US nobody will.
In Chuck’s world even Manafort’s crimes are Trump’s fault. Wow. You really are an ass.
The division is not Republican-Democrat, but between those who follow the utterances of federal prosecutors and those who don’t -- mostly a matter of social class. It’s why you don’t see Budweiser ads in the New York Times.
right-wing media universe??
Trust me, DC does not fear impeachment.
"Trump is going to peel 20+% of the black vote from the democrats. This puts states like New Jersey in play."
Oh yes, definitely. (◔_◔)
"Not like our hostess.
Althouse reaction was an OMFG moment for me.
"White girl" Remember."
You must be new here, and missed when she broke down and started crying when she was at a dinner table with some libertarians. Or flips out and shuts down her comments when people didn't like her "stooge splooge" feminist retardation. Or especially if you ever suggest that a guy getting "married" to another guy wouldn't be a real marriage.
Nothing new, every once in a while her lefty racism/sexism/bigotry lets its freak flag fly.
Blogger Jim at said...
The biggest mistake Trump has made was nominating Jeff Sessions for Attorney General. It becomes clearer every day.
Agreed. Not only has he been less than worthless as an AG, it cost the Rs a Senate seat.
I agree. I keep hoping he has a secret plan with the Utah USA but that's like hoping Saddam had WMD.
missed when she broke down and started crying when she was at a dinner table with some libertarians.
I remember that but it was before Meade. I keep hoping he is interpreting those mysterious non-Madison folks for her.
You all are looking at this from a post Nov 2016 perspective. If this news came out in Oct 2016 would Trump have been elected?
Or put another way, I hear from so many Trump voters “BUT HILLARY!”
In Nov of 2016 how bad would Trump have had to be for voters to “hold their nose and vote for Hillary”?
ALL BULLSHIT. Any money paid personally by Trump to his attorney when billed for paying off bimbos is NOT A CRIME.
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