Waters's comments have been roundly denounced, including by House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), and some will argue she's a fringe figure in the party who doesn't speak for most Democrats. But what she said is a logical extension of the debate and the questions raised over the Red Hen incident. Plenty cheered such harassment of Nielsen and Miller, such was their anger over the family-separation policy. When passions run as strongly as they do with a story like this, actions will be ratcheted up.Civil disobedience?!! Somebody needs to look up the definition of terms! "Civil disobedience" doesn't have to do with harassing individuals and shaming or scaring them out of appearing in public. Civil disobedience is declining to obey an unjust law. It's governing your own behavior in observance of a higher morality than the government's law. It has nothing to do with violating just norms — such as rules of etiquette or the legal protection from threats and physical violence — to hurt other people when those other people offend your moral standards!
Which means Democrats and Trump opponents as a whole need to decide where their line is for civil disobedience (or, in Waters's case, possibly going beyond civil disobedience)....
Some historical background on the idea from Wikipedia:
One of the oldest depictions of civil disobedience is in Sophocles' play Antigone, in which Antigone... defies Creon, the current King of Thebes, who is trying to stop her from giving her brother Polynices a proper burial. She gives a stirring speech in which she tells him that she must obey her conscience rather than human law...Civil disobedience is an important tradition in American history. Don't mix it up with bad behavior that has had — and deserves — no veneration.
Thoreau's 1849 essay Civil Disobedience, originally titled "Resistance to Civil Government"... [argued] that citizens are morally responsible for their support of aggressors, even when such support is required by law. In the essay, Thoreau explained his reasons for having refused to pay taxes as an act of protest against slavery and against the Mexican–American War....
By the 1850s, a range of minority groups in the United States: Blacks, Jews, Seventh Day Baptists, Catholics, anti-prohibitionists, racial egalitarians, and others—employed civil disobedience to combat a range of legal measures and public practices that to them promoted ethnic, religious, and racial discrimination....
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185 comments:
For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind.
Which means Democrats and Trump opponents as a whole need to decide where their line is for civil disobedience
It's not disobedience...it's civil disorder.
Coexist with Trump supporters.
Why should this WaPo writer know anything? None of the rest of them do.
The country (and the world, actually) is more conservative than liberal, but as a general rule, conservatives tend to be less organized, and less interested in forcing their opinions on others. However, the left went too far, and is seeing the results, both in failure of their policies and in the conservatives starting to push back. But rather than reconsider the issues, and how they deal with those who disagree with them, the left is "doubling down." And they are not going to like what happens.
1) Liberals have a tendency to be assholes when it comes to propagating their views.
2) Conservatives are going to start responding in kind - unfortunately, there really is no other choice.
“Speak truth to power”
What truth?
And who are the powerful?
Ann, haven’t you figured it out? The Left is unhinged. Logic, etiquette and reason means nothing to them. Their motto is, “By any means necessary.”
Trump is the worst Hitler ever. No dictator worth his salt would let his people be disrespected like this.
In this article at Politico, the Democrats try to justify their in civility by claiming people were violent at town halls during the healthcare reform debates. Two problems:
1) A town hall is meant to be a place to debate differences. It is not a family meal or a night at the movies.
2) I do not recall incivility on the part of those who disagreed with the healthcare reform agenda. Disagreement is not incivility. I do recall union thugs going to the town halls and threatening people,though. They were not on the side of those who disagreed with the Democrats.
"The people" are going to turn on them.
No, just some people.
Do we really want the most disruptive members of our society to have the most power?
he Democrats try to justify their in civility by claiming people were violent at town halls during the healthcare reform debates.
Open disagreement with the left is violence. They get to define the words.
Do we really want the most disruptive members of our society to have the most power?
It's happened over and over and over, and never seems to turn out well.
What makes Maxine Waters a fringe figure? Last year, she was a lefty hero, all over the press and my Facebook feed. SHe's been in elected office since 1970 and in the US Congress since 1990. She's wealthy enough and comfortable in her re-election enough to live outside her district, in LA's Hancock Park. People know her name!
This is Kerosene Maxine's shtick and it has been profitable for her for going on 50 years. She is not going to change now.
I think there's a distinction between what Thoreau did and what the groups "beginning in the 1850s" did. Thoreau objected to massive government policies: an international war, the whole practice of slavery. In a democracy, one might presume that such things are changed either by "ballots or bullets," as Malcolm X said. The various minority groups fighting for civil rights enjoyed some, but not all, of the normal freedoms of citizens. They pointed out the discrepancy between what they had and what they didn't have; the overlap with Thoreau was that they were often attacking laws. Waters seems to be proposing a denial of civil rights to people she disagrees with. You voted the wrong way on that recycling law; I'm going to try to prevent you from shopping or eating in a restaurant.
"Plenty cheered such harassment of Nielsen and Miller, such was their anger over the family-separation policy."
See, this where the bubble shows. It's not about any "family-separation policy". It's about Trump. Any conservative can see that and show that it is true in a few seconds. Blake is blind to it. He can't admit that this has nothing to do with any policy, it's TDS.
such was their anger over the family-separation policy. When passions run as strongly as they do with a story like this, actions will be ratcheted up.
Oh, yes. The Children!!
The tried and true human shield strategy. Trot out a vulnerable group--children, single mothers,children,blacks,children,gays,children,muslims,children,handicapped---to say if you don't back our cause, you don't care about these people!
Liberals think this insulates them from criticism, but more importantly creates emotional hysteria that shuts down any thinking on the issue.
Calling what these people are doing "civil" is almost Orwellian. It is anything but civil.
"Waters's comments have been roundly denounced, including by House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi"
What a load of steaming pile. Here is what the botox batshit crazy senile bitch said:
"In the crucial months ahead, we must strive to make America beautiful again. Trump’s daily lack of civility has provoked responses that are predictable but unacceptable. As we go forward, we must conduct elections in a way that achieves unity from sea to shining sea."
So it's Trump's fault. And conduct elections? These people are delusional.
The prescious Enemies of the People Media have given us a new Global Warming like religious reason to kill the heretics. And 97% of their talking heads agree to it.
That's not possible without a planned and organized government ordering it. Hence the Deep State (a/k/a CIA) is exposed. They are the Witch Hunters.
Liberals think this insulates them from criticism, but more importantly creates emotional hysteria that shuts down any thinking on the issue.
Why not? It usually works with over half the population.
Lewis Wetzel said...
"Plenty cheered such harassment of Nielsen and Miller, such was their anger over the family-separation policy."
See, this where the bubble shows. It's not about any "family-separation policy". It's about Trump. Any conservative can see that and show that it is true in a few seconds. Blake is blind to it. He can't admit that this has nothing to do with any policy, it's TDS.
Exactly! You can tell them over and over Obama also had this policy, but they find some way to tell you that is a lie, or that it was very different.
And these people do not care that other children- American children- are separated from their parents by the government every day. This is not about the children.
Together we thrive!!
Conflating righteous civil disobedience with general assholiness is a political strategy. It's muddying the waters. Happy to see Ann call foul.
"When passions run as strongly as they do with a story like this, actions will be ratcheted up."
Passions? I would say 'knee-jerk mass hysteria' stemming from TDS in the media.
such was their anger over the family-separation policy.
This is a lie. If their anger was over the policy they would have directed it at Obama who also administered this policy. Their anger is simply that he's not a left wing Democrat.
By the way there are roughly 3,000 media stories criticizing Trump's comments on the subject under the guise of "fact checking". Journolist was busy. Revealingly there is not one media follow up on the story that the Red Hen owner followed Huckabee's family to the restaurant across the street and harassed them there also even though Huckabee herself went home.
Somehow every one of those 3,000 authors was interested in the angle which attacked Trump but not one was interested in unreported facts which materially change the story. Priorities revealed.
...they’re not going to be able to go to a restaurant, they’re not going to be able to stop at a gas station, they’re not going to be able to shop [at] a department store.
In other words, violate their civil rights.
Incivility Bullshit.
"Plenty cheered such harassment of Nielsen and Miller, such was their [manufactured] anger over the family-separation policy."
FTFH. It's important not to forget this little detail when they discuss this issue. Yes, I know, he's writing for one of the manufacturers, so he's not going to do it. But the notion that this is all some spontaneous civil outcry about an unprecedented policy can't be allowed to pass without pushback.
It's disgusting to watch Red Guards and brownshirts arrogate the label of "civil disobedience" to themselves.
This isn't likely to happen as much in concealed carry states. Just saying.
Who is 'plenty' who cheered? The readership of the WaPo and the NYTs? You mean political fellow travelers. I would suggest this man stop in a diner or two outside of the Big Blue Bubble and ask them about this level of douchiness.
This deranged old gas bag--and I'm talking about you Maxine "Gatemouth" Waters, has long passed her sell by date. I'm not sure that even the voters down on the Democrat plantation in South Los Angeles continue to be amused by her antics.
Whatever. Maxine and her ilk are how you get more Trump.
What they're doing is taking over the news cycle with discord until Trump's gone.
It's a media strategy, bringing in the power of soap opera women to edit news with their interests.
Trump is the fuck you note to that, relying on the interests of everybody but soap opera women being a majority interest.
The battle isn't finished.
This is all of a piece with the Mueller probe, the investigations in NY state, the investigations of people who have done business with Trump in the past, running up huge legal bills. It's all about punishing anyone associated with the outsider who crashed the Uni-party in DC. They want to take away his support system, make people afraid to get on his team and make sure nobody will want to try this again in future elections and , if they do, that no one will help or support or fund them. It's organized crime.
Rush says the media run the democrats, rather than the reverse.
I'd say they have a common business interest. Ratings and power respectively.
Historical note: the Gracci brothers brought in the mobs to intimidate the elites. "Let the people speak".
The Elites pushed back with escalating violence up to and including murder. Because they were scared to murder.
During one of Gaius Gracci's rallies, someone was murdered by his side. He moaned 'You have killed me!'. Someone is going to die as a result of the Leftist pushing and then the gloves are off
And just to point out the rather obvious: 65% of the population of the country WANT tougher immigration laws. How is this a 'winner' for the Left?
But the so called 'educated' Left seems to forget that this is exactly how Republics die.
Turn away Waters from a restaurant based on her politics and see what happens. Turn away the black Mayor of Atlanta and see what happens.
Wilbur said...
For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind.
Obama told his supporters to "punch back twice as hard." Calls for violence are hardly a new thing for the Democrats. I hope it never comes to that, but if it does, they might want to consider which side has the most gun owners and veterans trained in the practical use of massive violence. If it comes to that, it won't end well for anyone, but especially not for the Left.
We have two generations now who haven't been educated, just credentialed. Ignorance of history is especially bad. And we're already suffering the consequences.
This will not end well for the leftists, adopting these antifa or anarchist strategies.
I fear this will continue to escalate and not end before blood is shed. And when the Furies are released, you cannot control how it will end.
Civil disobedience?!! Somebody needs to look up the definition of terms! "Civil disobedience" doesn't have to do with harassing individuals and shaming or scaring them out of appearing in public. Civil disobedience is declining to obey an unjust law. It's governing your own behavior in observance of a higher morality than the government's law. It has nothing to do with violating just norms — such as rules of etiquette or the legal protection from threats and physical violence — to hurt other people when those other people offend your moral standards!
---
That's ironic. Somebody does need to look up the definition of terms, and it isn't Aaron Blake. You're wrong about civil disobedience (probably because you didn't bother to look it up). Civil disobedience in the American tradition is much broader than refusing to disobey an unjust law.
(Also, unsurprisingly given your apparent haste to criticize, you missed the parenthetical from the article...
Comanche Voter said...
"This deranged old gas bag--and I'm talking about you Maxine "Gatemouth" Waters, has long passed her sell by date. I'm not sure that even the voters down on the Democrat plantation in South Los Angeles continue to be amused by her antics.
Whatever. Maxine and her ilk are how you get more Trump."
I have a pair of nieces that are recent college grads. They and their friends worship Maxine Waters. It's bizarre.
"When passions run as strongly as they do with a story like this, actions will be ratcheted up."
I was thinking of the children when I punched you in the mouth.
Baring immediate-and-effective actions by police, individuals or mobs who represent a real OR reasonably perceived "clear and present danger of death or great bodily harm" are legally exposed to the use of deadly force by the targets of such critters or innocent by-standers by those threatened persons OR any good person seeking to suppress such threats,
This generalized anger that is gripping those who "dislike" Trump is extremely troubling. In Hebrew, anger is translated as HAMAS. The left is devolving into the behavior of their darlings, HAMAS.
The process of the Mob starts with verbal, spills over into physical abuse, and metastasizes into loss of life and murder. Do not say it "can't happen here, Suzy Creamcheese."
If the color or gender of the victims of abuse in the Red Hen (refused a person because of their politics? have they forgotten such behavior in Dixiecrat South at lunch counters?) were reversed, there would be hell to pay.
It is not that their behaviors of runaway emotions resembles the "red neck" apartheid in the South in the fifties and sixties; rather it approaches the actions of HAMAS daily against Jews, women, homosexuals, and Christians.
There IS something happening here and what is is EXACTLY clear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp5JCrSXkJY
It approaches critical mass when celebrities like Peter Fonda start mouthing the meme for social approval. The days of the True Believer have arrived.
"When passions run as strongly as they do with a story like this, actions will be ratcheted up."
Look what you made me do.
If the color or gender of the victims of abuse in the Red Hen (refused a person because of their politics? have they forgotten such behavior in Dixiecrat South at lunch counters?) were reversed, there would be hell to pay.
---
This is a grievous misread of American history.
When Trump and the Republicans win in Nov, I expect it will really get bad and it'll be our fault for voting Republican.
Craig
Give a couple of examples of the civil disobedience you believe fall within your definition.
The left is, indeed, sowing the wind but they want to reap a whirlwind of 'right wing' backlash which will play well in the MSM. I know because this is what we did with protests in the 60's. The shootings at Kent State played right into our hands.
This has got to stop.
It’s forgotten how Trump supporters were asssulted at rallies in the last election...
Hernandez et al. v. City of San Jose et al., Case No. 5:16-cv-03957-LHK (N.D.C.A. July 14, 2016).
Is still ongoing.
I would love to go to a Trump rally, but I am too scared too. I live in So. Ca
In public, I don’t talk about Trump. Definitely no bumper stickers.
Berkeley just had a Trump supporter assault case that was dismissed.
I view what is being done to Trump supporters as a natural outgrowth of the community organizing tactics that have been do effective for the Democrats. And before Trump, there was no cost politically for using them.
Trump is not smashing this as hard as he could. My guess is he’s picking his focus, which founds crazy. And when your enemy is fanatical about committing electoral suicide by violating society norms, why help them?
As long as we are talking about ANYTHING BUT the IG report.
Michael: Lots of people disobey one law (e.g., a tax or trespass law) to protest something else.
That's, of course, not what was happening in this case. But be a careful interlocutor! My point here is that the Professor, in her haste, accused the Washington Post of misunderstanding the term even while she BOTH misunderstood the term and misunderstood the Washington Post. Her petard was a dangerous one!
And this from Fox News:
“A burned animal carcass was reportedly left on the doorstep of a Department of Homeland Security staffer as tensions grow between the Trump administration and those who are protesting its "zero tolerance" immigration policy.”
Stay classy, Democrats. Stay classy.
Islamic resistance organization is what Hamas spells
https://mobile.twitter.com/farleftwatch/status/10115
I believe that American lefties all have too much to lose to start another civil war on the issues they are talking about. Risk losing your house and one of your children because of Hillary Clinton's sorrows and transgender bathrooms and MS13? Not going to happen. Run around the edges like Chicken Little screaming, "the sky is falling, run and tell Sarah Sanders you don't like her." OK. But, will the lefty's be the Little Red Hen and say "I'll do it" when "it" means personal sacrifice? Not the American lefty's. On the coasts or inland, salt water or fresh water, they are the same.
I wrote a comment yesterday that I will echo here.
Antifa aggressiveness has been mainstreamed by the media et all. The rough edges are lightly smoothed to fit a bastardized construct of civil disobedience.
The lack of repercussions leads to the Broken Windows dynamic: the previously unacceptable behavior becomes part of the accepted environment.
Then: Riot Theory takes hold. Those who would typically shy away from such acts begin to do so as they see it happen with no repercussions and tacit approval.
An inverted Rodney King moment is coming.
-- LWL
Maxine is following in the tradition of Al Sharpton and BLM.
When does the shooting start?
Craig asserts a definition of civil disobedience, but fails to provide it. Having simply asserted his point, he leaves it to others to do the work. Well, ok then.
According to the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy,
Although civil disobedience often overlaps broadly with other types of dissent, nevertheless some rough distinctions may be drawn between the key features of civil disobedience and the key features of these other practices.
One of those "other practices" is...
Radical Protest: Some forms of dissent such as coercive violence, organised forcible resistance, militant action, intimidation, and terrorisation lie further outside the realm of tolerated (or tolerable) political action than civil disobedience does. ...
While a civil disobedient does not necessarily oppose the regime in which she acts, the militant or radical protester is deeply opposed to that regime (or a core aspect of that regime). This protester uses modes of communication unlikely to persuade others of the merits of her position. Her aims are more urgent and extreme than those of the civil disobedient; she seeks rapid change through brutal strategies of coercion and intimidation, not through strategies of persuasion and moral appeal. And often her action includes force or extreme violence as a key component. Given the nature of her conduct and objectives, she is likely to try to evade the legal consequences of her action. This is less often the case for civil disobedients.
Althouse 1, Craig 0.
Wild swan, they have enough nuts like Hodgkinson to do some serious violence.
Riot for Maxine and Chuck Todd, CNN and MSNBC.
These people (those who promote shunning members of Trump's administration) are stupid beyond belief.
They just use the venerable label "civil disobedience" to make their assholery look better.
Of course, as others have pointed out, their justifications are lies--no one ever objected to O and Jeh separating kids, or took issue with the 9th Circuit (the 9th Circuit!) consent decree at issue. Nor do they care about "the children"--much worse happened to "children" on O's watch in Syria, and no lefty gave a damn. It's all about and against Trump. Indirectly, it a continuation of the left's scorch-the-earth policy, raising the costs for righty dissent from their hegemony and decreasing the willingness of god people to serve GOP administrations.
None of the lefty justifications for their violence takes into account the possible responses from the right. They are all predicated on the assumption that the right won't respond in kind, either because were are cowed into submission or too nice to violate our own standards. But their behavior raises important tactical questions for us deplorables: are we better off responding in kind or keeping our powder dry?
American lefties all have too much to lose to start another civil war on the issues they are talking about
I believe this is true. I also believe American lefties view themselves as top of the leftie food chain elite thinkers guiding others to do the dirty work they fantasize about doing.
Not Sure,
Good lord you're a poor reader. The SEP piece is full of material that gainsays Althouse's definition (which was: "Civil disobedience is declining to obey an unjust law.").
I agree with Cookie!
Craig
I would be a particularly careful interlocutor when poking a constitunal law professor on this topic. Your example, by the way, does not prove your point.
I still have a mildly held belief that the Vegas shooter was another example of a Democrat engaging in 'civil disobedience'.
Which means Democrats and Trump opponents as a whole need to decide where their line is for civil disobedience
While the rest of us will need to decide where the line is between being harassed and exercising self protection from the mob.
The Democrats have unleashed something very very ugly and dangerous.
Sorry Craig, but the piece clearly defines the behavior she's talking about as outside the definition of civil disobedience. Get your vision checked--or simply remove your blinders.
Lefties tried this in 1968, and it got them Nixon.
Craig can't be wrong -- he gainsaid the interlocutor! Lulz
The current trope is that Trump has triggered the incivility by his own incivility. The lefties don’t need a reason to be uncivil. They are spring-loaded for it. W Bush was a good and decent man who NEVER returned a lick when he was attacked. It was infuriating. Bushitler just took it. The Bushchimp was paraded in the streets by screening lefties with a bullet hole in his forehead or with a noose around his neck. Condoleezza was assaulted by a shrieking harridan with bloody hands.
One thing about Trump. You give him a lick; he’ll give you a lick back...and then some.
If Trump were any good at being a Hitler, we’d already see the ovens fired up and the women lefties would be lined up over here and the male lefties would be lined up over there, and the children of the lined-up lefties would given copies of Krauthammer columns to read and memorize.....in their cages. Trump is a terrible Hitler. But one could daydream.
- Krumhorn
So the Left wants only the hardcore and intransigently bloody-minded in the Trump Administration? Well, OK then. It’s telling that this is where they’re at. Liberals used to co-opt conservatives with social soft-power, cocktail parties, joint charity efforts, and whatnot. Apparently, conservatives aren’t buying the civility bullshit anymore. That is serious progress and very bad news for the Left.
Lefties tried this in 1968, and it got them Nixon.
They already have Trump so they think it cannot get worse. They think wrong.
As long as we are talking about ANYTHING BUT the IG report
I think we're beyond the three day window so now we can talk about it all we want but it's old news. What difference at this point does it make?
Bad news for LLR’s too. Suddenly, they’re the House Negroes of the Democrat Party.
Not Sure,
Let me offer you two sentences, and you tell me whether you can distinguish them:
1) Ann Althouse's definition of civil disobedience is incorrect.
2) The Red Hen story involves civil disobedience.
If you try real hard, real, real hard, I bet you can tell those two sentences apart. A second assignment for you would be to try reading the Washington Post piece for evidence regarding its author's beliefs as to 2.
For all the complaining about lefty thinking in Professor Althouse's right-wing internet think tank, the righties around here don't try very hard to set a good example.
>> And when your enemy is fanatical about committing electoral suicide by violating society norms, why help them?
Never murder a man committing suicide.
Michael:
On Althouse's definition, civil disobedience is disobedience of an unjust law because of a conflict with morality. I gave you two examples of disobedience of a (reasonably) just law because disobedience is a way to draw attention to some other injustice. Those examples don't fit in her definition. And, I know that she used to work on con law -- so I'm sure she has been around people who think carefully about civil disobedience, and I'm sure those people would tell her that her definition is wrong.
"The country (and the world, actually) is more conservative than liberal...."
That's disputable, or at least depends on one's understanding of the terms. Surveys have shown that when people are asked opinions about certain current issues without any labels being used, there seems to be a lot of agreement between self-identified "conservatives" and "liberals."
Americans are more liberal than they know.
100% agreement with Althouse today!
And again, we "NeverTrump" conservatives and Republicans aren't engaging in this kind of targeted personal harassment in public. We're calling out Trump's reckless language (and sometimes bad behavior) and leaving it there.
Many commenters here have used the phrase, "This is how you get more Trump." As it relates to this Althouse post, I have to agree with that.
The Democrat Hack Press ratcheted up the "passions" of the blind-faithful/ easily manipulated left, so we do not talk about the IG report.
Chuck - your not doing yourself any favors. The topic is Maxine Waters reckless language. Trump isn't calling for the mob, she is.
Blogger tcrosse said...
Lefties tried this in 1968, and it got them Nixon.
It's what they are hoping for.
@ Robert Cook
That's disputable, or at least depends on one's understanding of the terms
The definition or classification of who is a Conservative or Liberal is much too artificial. People are not cartoon characters or so one dimensional as to be able to be "pigeon holed" into and either or category.
In addition defining a belief in an individual issue as being Liberal or Conservative is also misleading. Often there is that sliding scale again. The reasons that someone may be FOR or AGAINST any particular issue are not always the same as others who take that stance.
For an example:. Most people would consider me relatively conservative however take Gay Marriage. I am not opposed to it. As long as the people involved just get on with their lives and don't sue people who don't want to participate...I'm just fine with it. Now. That doesn't mean I am FOR it either.
The classification of being Liberal or Conservative is much more nuanced than people want to accept.
Now Even Swedes Are Questioning the Welfare State
I am for more protests by burning yourself alive with gasoline. The Buddhist monks can do it. Why not the Dems. Up your game guys.
I take it the difference between just norms and civility bullshit is clear in Althouse's mind, but perhaps she could enlighten us on how she draws her distinctions.
“Punch a deplorable.”
Ann disagrees with Blake's usage of the term civil disobedience. Craig claims she's wrong and as proof she's wrong cites Blake's usage of the term.
Got it.
"We're calling out Trump's reckless language (and sometimes bad behavior) and leaving it there."
Maxine has bigger balls than Chuck -- that's my takeaway.
There are laws against harassment and stalking people. Use them.
Also laws like RICO.
I hope the Dems listen to Maxine. I hope they do harass more people in public places.
Go ahead and get it out of your system Dems. Then watch as America votes to get you out of it's system.
Maxine Waters is practicing politics as it is played in every third world shit hole country. That's how you get to be and remain a shit hole country, regardless of First World aid and constitutional models. And the more we open our borders to folks from these shit hole countries, the more our politics is coming to resemble theirs.
“Think globally, punch locally.”
Another profile not available. I suppose I should be thankful when the trolls and sockpuppets self-identify.
Maxine Waters: Hate is the answer.
Paul said...
There are laws against harassment and stalking people. Use them.
Have we not learned that law enforcement is selective, even hostile towards MAGA?
The violence in Charlottesville, Berkely, San Jose, Chicago....all facilitated by the police chief under direction of the mayors.
The SEP piece is full of material that gainsays Althouse's definition (which was: "Civil disobedience is declining to obey an unjust law.").
So far her definition is supported by the only other definition provided. You have failed to elucidate an opposing definition. Maybe you think you have, but you have not provided any support for your weird assertion. There is a fairly universal understanding of "civil disobedience" that fits the brief description Althouse gave. Other things, like firebombing, may be "disobedient" but are not "civil," you see.
Republicans, arm yourselves.
i fear this will continue to escalate and not end before blood is shed. And when the Furies are released, you cannot control how it will end. ,.
Plenty of blood shed during the election. Trump supporters beat all over the country.
The right never fights back.
Maybe because many on the right have something to lose by going to jail, while the leftist mob rarely gets charged or convicted.
The people are going to turn on them,
Whenever the Left uses the term "the People", just substitute either hired thug or left-wing wacko for "people" and you'll have it down.
The Left is big on "spontaneous" political actions, which are in reality anything but spontaneous. Remember the Viet Cong, and how they were a "spontaneous" uprising by the South Vietnamese against their repressive government? Except, of course, after the war it comes out that the North organized, paid, fed, & armed them the whole time, including setting up arms caches for them in the South during the process of negotiating the treaty of division.
Maxine Waters, a gentle, peaceable soul, famous for her meekness and reasoned discourse, has been pushed past the edge by the hateful rhetoric of our deplorable president. Try selling that.......I read The New Yorker profile of Obrador. He's the candidate for President of Mexico who engages in Maxine Waters' type rhetoric. He stands an excellent chance of winning and, then, going on to be the kind of transformative leader that Chavez was. His election will also be Trump's fault, according to The New Yorker writer.......Trump is obliged to keep his discourse civil. Those who recommend caging and raping his child have been provoked beyond endurance.
The leftists know Maxine Waters is going way over the line and should resign. They know people will demand that.
They are counting on it.
They need a black martyr. Preferably female.
What Maxine Waters is doing is all about getting Black people back on the plantation.
The violence in Charlottesville, Berkely, San Jose, Chicago....all facilitated by the police chief under direction of the mayors.
True that. And take it from a person who spent 45 years living in the Washington, DC, suburbs — Washington is a city run by Democrats for the exclusive benefit of Democrats.
But when you can’t rely on the law to protect you then what? In America the traditional answer was Committees of Vigilance. Is that what the Democrats are hoping for?
I wonder at how much outrage is shown those who welcome immigrants with insufficient affection and how little outrage is shown those who force those people into exile. The cartels, gangs and despots are remarkably absent from the left's denunciations. In fact if you even mention gangs, you are condemned as a bigot. You cannot speculate that any of the immigrants might be gang members. That would be profiling. Facial tattoos are covered by free speech........The Chavez legacy is one million refugees. Venezuela is a refugee factory. We should protest the Maduro regime by throwing pig offal on Oliver Stone every time he appears in public.
"Americans are more liberal than they know."
Liberal (in the classic sense), sure. Progressive (in the Stalinist sense), no.
"In America the traditional answer was Committees of Vigilance. Is that what the Democrats are hoping for?"
Yeah, in a way it is. They want to "heighten the contradictions" by forcing people to rely on violence or threats of violence to retain property or safety. Leftist sophistry aside, this replicates the Third World low trust cultures that is the default setting for their base.
As we've seen replicated repeatedly throughout the Southern Hemisphere, the Left will gladly sacrifice the economic benefits of high trust capitalism for the primal emotional satisfaction of sticking it to the Man.
those that push for and defend Waters will be the first to decry
the eventual in-kind push-back
Trump's responding tweet is golden:
Congresswoman Maxine Waters, an extraordinarily low IQ person, has become, together with Nancy Pelosi, the Face of the Democrat Party. She has just called for harm to supporters, of which there are many, of the Make America Great Again movement. Be careful what you wish for Max!
Just the right combination of admonition and threat!
As has been pointed out by several other people on this blog and elsewhere, Trump is blessed by his enemies. Maxine Waters in a shocking display of her "low IQ"-ness is giving Trump and his supporters exactly what he needs.
I mean, wow. How dumb can she be?
Obama encouraged violence throughout his Presidency. As soon as Trump was elected his AG encouraged violence. The multiple instances of calls for violence are too numerous to list. And they are being heeded. It is an underlying theme of the people in power for the last eight years and it's not a suprise it has taken root throughout the Democratic Party. Taken as a standalone Water's behavior is just another racebaiter's clownshow, but the entire party, and this includes their media shills, own this behavior, no matter Schumer's denial or Pelosi's waffling. This is the point we get to see if we as a nation have passed buwaya's point of no return. The next assassination attempt, and there is bound to be one imo, will tell the tale. At that point everyone will have to choose which side they are on. No more fence sitting. No more excuses.
This idiocy has to bode well for the Republicans in the midterms if sanity is to remain the overall norm. I still have faith in the American people. Even the Ingas have to be repulsed, and I don't believe the Ritmos have enough backing to overrun that.
"These people (those who promote shunning members of Trump's administration) are stupid beyond belief.
Thank you, Cookie.
Your comment gives me hope that the Left will not go totally bonkers and start a civil war.
Cookie asserts: That's disputable, or at least depends on one's understanding of the terms. Surveys have shown that when people are asked opinions about certain current issues without any labels being used, there seems to be a lot of agreement between self-identified "conservatives" and "liberals."
True. People [let's just say Americans] probably agree on more than they disagree. But the MSM aren't having any of that!
In after the sock puppet!
Sigh. "For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind." I really don't see how to respond to this. They are just out of their minds, and refuse to see that there are consequences. Generally, there is no way to deal with something like except to impose consequences. The consequences would have to be, do it back to them, harder. Anyone doing this needs to be doxxed and harassed. Anyone supporting this. And if our families are fair game, theirs need to be too.
That isn't me. But what else are we supposed to do? They need to appreciate consequences.
Anger makes you stupid.
Anybody seen Pedro today?
So much outrage over what Maxine Waters has to say. I don’t care what she says, why do u?
I mean, wow. How dumb can she be?
If you look at the history of comments she's made over the decades, the answer has to be "pretty damn dumb".
By the 1850s, a range of minority groups in the United States... —employed civil disobedience to combat a range of legal measures and public practices that to them promoted ethnic, religious, and racial discrimination.
I 'spose regular non-minority naughty white men didn't have to "employ civil disobedience" because they had everything handed to them on silver platters - silver from mines:
West Virginia coal wars
Ludlow Massacre
Harlan County War
The Coal Mining Massacre America Forgot
Maxine is behaving like she's on Trump's payroll to ensure Repub Midterm victory
Pussyhats and soy-boys to the barricades!
Blogger tcrosse said...
Lefties tried this in 1968, and it got them Nixon.
Sirhan Sirhan disputes that
Maxine Waters, seditionist and moron, is the face of the New Democrat Party, along with rich socialist Bernie Sanders. It is a tribute to the obtuseness of the party elite that they are blind to this. Obviously the WaPo sees it and condones it.
OTOH, the WaPo is blind to the fact that is now a tabloid with the stature appurtenant thereto. The Party and it’s minions are having their ups and downs.
Sensitive folks.
Keep pushing it, leftists.
Follow Maxine's advice to its fullest.
Keep it up.
those that push for and defend Waters will be the first to decry
the eventual in-kind push-back
Yep. And I don't care.
Maxine Waters in a shocking display of her "low IQ"-ness is giving Trump and his supporters exactly what he needs.
Maxine Waters represents the District that launched the L.A. Riot of 1992. She has never offered a word of apology to the families of the 63 people murdered by the rioters, constituents of the Waters crime family.
So much outrage over what Maxine Waters has to say. I don’t care what she says, why do u?
The person who spends each and every day obsessing over a certain commenter's posts on a random blog tells us we shouldn't be paying attention to a Congresswoman's call for thuggery.
She speaks for you, Inga. Own it.
So much outrage over what Maxine Waters has to say. I don’t care what she says, why do u?
Because I really don't want to see people killed or a real civil war with death and destruction begin. Words have consequences. Maxine's word are a call to the progressive left to ramp up the personal attacks and to increase the violence against individuals.
Someone is going to get hurt (again... like Scalise). There are going to be people injured and dying because Maxine and the rabid left can't stop increasing the pressure on the pressure cooker.
I care. Why don't u?
I don't think this is humorous. Evidently you do.
“Words have consequences.”
Except for Trump’s apparently.
So therefore, I really don’t care.
This is civil.
OK.
Just remember. That knife cuts both ways.
DBQ: I don't think this is humorous. Evidently you do.
The parrot has sure sounded like she was all hopped up on some kind of goofballs for the last two days or so. As childish as always, but the bliss-ninny tone is out of character.
Hope she's just in unusually good mood because of felicitous personal circumstances, and hasn't turned to any kind of chemical crutch to help deal with the drawn-out let-down on "The Investigation" front.
Psycho nurse has been tapping into her "off site backup" of Psychotropics.
Blogger Inga said...
“Words have consequences.”
Except for Trump’s apparently.
So therefore, I really don’t care.
You evidently care enough to come on here and whine numerous times a day. You're only fooling yourself.
Craig,
Give it a rest.
- Skippy
“But when you can’t rely on the law to protect you then what? In America the traditional answer was Committees of Vigilance. Is that what the Democrats are hoping for?”
Your Committees of Vigilance might work in Trump country. The problem though is that the danger is in Blue America, where the authorities are more likely to jail the vigilantes, than address the violence that they are trying to protect against. Which, I think leaves self-defense. Using deadly force, if necessary when the there is an imminent threat of loss of life or great bodily injury.
"Your Committees of Vigilance might work in Trump country. The problem though is that the danger is in Blue America, where the authorities are more likely to jail the vigilantes, than address the violence that they are trying to protect against. Which, I think leaves self-defense. Using deadly force, if necessary when the there is an imminent threat of loss of life or great bodily injury."
This is vey true. Therefore if you live in blue areas you need to be proactive. We need someone to list the home address of members of the media and Democratic politicians. Proactive measures should be taken.
Do you remember "Hill Street Blues?" The turn out Sargent had a very wise saying.
"Let's do it to them before they do it to us."
At a minimum we should SWATT the Red Hen 24/7.
What the dims are promoting is mob rule. A number of the incidents in question, like the crowd at the restaurant booing (not Red Hen) and even the Hamilton vs Pence case are true threats of mob violence. We have seen on campus' that Antifa mobs DO get violent and speakers have been hurt. Not civil disobedience.
Then I would load up a bus with the smelliest psychotic homeless people I could find and bring them to the restaurant. I would give them five bucks and tell them to go in and sit down and to use the bathroom.
That's the law.
By the way, the supposed justification for this "civil disobedience" is the children at the border, but
1) I saw where 2/3 of the children are not with parents or not with their own parents
2) What exactly is the proposed solution? The parents have broken a law. Should we put the kids in jail with them? Oh, I know, just open the borders, that is their solution.
Honestly, I'm surprised these mostly peaceful demonstrations haven't ended badly. Apparently, a bunch of guys were shouting things at -- was it Pamela Bondi? Someone like that from Florida, I think -- terrible things, and asking her boyfriend what he was going to do about it.
Now, if a police officer saw three men harassing a woman, most likely by saying they'd do sexual things to her, and trying to pick a fight with her boyfriend -- those three men would get more than a polite request to leave them alone... and certainly a police officer wouldn't give those three men MULTIPLE chances to leave them alone.
So, that's the world we live in. Where, if your politics are a certain way, you can be sexually harassed in public and your loved ones challenged to fights, and the people doing it suffer no ill consequences.
Then I would negotiate with my local chapter of MS-13.
They have to initiate new members. You know the way the mob had a newbie "make his bones."
We could offer a bounty if the new members got initiated by visiting this restaurant or one of the homes of a member of the press. They could explain why they are tankful that they support the importation of more members and what that would mean.
I bet we could raise $10,000 in ten minutes on Kickstarter if we were financing MS-13 visiting Jim Acosta.
Why is anyone surprise what Aunt Esther has to say?
That is what they are like. Nasty, hateful and stupid. The perfect representation of the Congressional Black Caucus.
The magic Negro who is kind and wise is just a fictional device created by Hollywood to anthropomorphism these animals.
Oh, hello langford. Lovely day, isn't it.
"So, that's the world we live in. Where, if your politics are a certain way, you can be sexually harassed in public and your loved ones challenged to fights, and the people doing it suffer no ill consequences."
Pepper spray them and put it on YouTube. Once they become a comedic meme they'll quickly stop.
Fox Sports had a shot of Diego Maradona waving to Maxine Waters at the World Cup.
Apparently, a bunch of guys were shouting things at -- was it Pamela Bondi? Someone like that from Florida, I think -- terrible things, and asking her boyfriend what he was going to do about it.
Conservatives have to become like the libs. Video public interactions, put them on the web, and petition their employers to fire them.
Yes the difficulty is that academia and government won't fire them since they support their actions. Then use that to discredit the institutions.
civil disobedience bullshit
Milo Yiannopoulos:
“I can’t wait for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight.”
No need to care.
"Trump is a Traitor. Trump Has Destroyed Our Democracy. It's Time to Destroy Trump & Co."
Republicans are the Taliban of the USA,
- James Hodgkinson ... before he actually gunned down Republican congressmen on sight.
Keep fomenting violence, Inga. Keep defending your elected officials for their calls to thuggery. You're safe from the mobs you cheer, aren't you.
Rep. Waters spoke these words of defiance while addressing the chapter of Mensa she is head of.
Inga: What in hell did you do too Jim at? Did you make fun of his diminishing "stature"? The only violence I see you fomenting is birthing babies who actually joined the military. I guess bone spurs don't run in your family.
That's how it looks to me. She's a single-looper. Talking to other single-loopers. It's dangerous and not without consequences. She's useful to some people. But I think she actually is pretty fringe, and the people on her side calling her fringe are giving an indication that she's not that useful anymore. That seems like a good sign.
MadMax 2020: "They will not be allowed at our lunch counters, in our bathrooms. Hose them down for being the monkeys they are!"
@walter: LOL!
You got your monkeys mixed up their pal.
The monkeys are the morons who get elected to Congress and gather together in the troop of baboons they call the Congressional Black Caucus.
Look at the ripe specimens of simian quality they have there. The guy who claimed that Okinawa would tip over. The raddled whore in the Cowboy Hat that attacked the President. Aunt Ester Maxine. Charely Rangel the censured tax criminal. Wasn't there another one of them that was impeached as a judge and convicted of taking brides. Then there was the guy with the money in his freezer and the underage girlfriend. The one from Detroit who raped more interns than Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein put together.
All in all an allstar collection of creeps, perverts, morons and criminals. Typical.
I do however thank you for joining me in my monkey talk as Inga did in another thread.
As they say. Monkey see monkey do.
Waters’ little outburst got a lot of attention. I suppose that Trump supporters are using it to try to paint all the critics of his administration as louts to be dismissed out of hand.
To some, civil disobedience is inherent bad behavior. Not many whites in Birmingham thought MLK was a charming Southern gentleman. They didn’t think he was a rube, but rude.
Peel,
That was MadMax2020 speaking.
And..you got yer islands mixed up.
The critics of his administration are in fact morons who live in a fantasy world. They are dismissed out of hand by the normals.
We don't have to be quiet anymore.
It is great that you are upping the ante. You are not going to like what is going to come next.
Waters’ outburst was brave and heroic, speaking truth to power, and anyway it was exactly the way republicans, those unmannered louts treated Obama.
Would Pelosi and the others have chastised Waters if it had polled well?
(I'll stop in a second but one more):
I salute Maxine Waters. May she have a long and prosperous career. I hope she doesn't cave in to Pelosi's recommended approach to the Creep in Chief. Show no mercy, no surrender!
I agree HT. Maxine doesn't monkey around. I hope she doesn't get spooked and keeps calling a spade a spade.
We need more of her front and center.
I suppose that Trump supporters are using it to try to paint all the critics of his administration as louts to be dismissed out of hand.
Do you know any that are not ?
Yes, she is fearless.
Every time she opens that mouth, she accepts the same risks faced by turbines the world over. But she persists..resist she much!
What if Trump supporters went into the Red Hen wearing a jacket that had "I support Sarah Sanders" painted the back. Otherwise dressed appropriately. And sat down waited to be served and wouldn't go when the owner asked them to, not even if she called the police. And went limp when the police came and had to be dragged out. You could call it a sit-in.
Or go in there, sit down at a table to swig from a water bottle..and say you are waiting for a friend.
“They are dismissed out of hand by the normals.”
Ohhhh hahahahahaha, “normals” coming from the self professed White Supremacist.
But honestly I don’t really care. Peely is your problem.
Hey Inga, You don't have the last post on the
"Trump wins the travel ban case."
Hop to it!
Maxine is the voice of BLM.
Only a little crazier.
White people are the normals Inga.
When we get away from that we are the road to destruction.
I'm paraphrasing, Maxy said that the Dems 'should harrass and hound anyone connected the Trump administration, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day'.
I want a Reporter to ask her if we can treat prisoners exactly that way. I want her to defend her own words.
Blogger Inga said...
"So much outrage over what Maxine Waters has to say. I don’t care what she says, why do u?"
Bull. You care a lot that Waters is an often quoted idiot or you wouldn't come here and keep repeating how fine you feel about her suggestions.
Also, quoting an occasion when your opponents were rude is not a defense of rudeness.
It is a form of "I know you are but what am I?" used by four year olds when they are described in a way
that hurts but for which they have no defense.
Trump is rude. Only a fool would try to fight him with rudeness.
Comments of mine (minus one particular paragraph) were riffing on this: https://althouse.blogspot.com/2009/09/you-lie.html?commentPage=1
I dont own branded clothing. Never been my thing. I do have one Hawkeye t shirt, I wear when I get the random ticket to one of the games, that's it.
Until today. My order for MAGA stuff is submitted. I will now wear it when I go into the cities. Out here amongst the sane Americans, MAGA draws nothing but an occasional sneer. Mostly a smile, and nod. But now, I will wear the gear to Des Moines, and Cedar Rapids-Iowa City corridor. Inviting people to take a swing at me. This is going to be fun.
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