I am stunned! So soon after Kate Spade, a cultural icon who seemed to embody joy in life and simple happiness. Similarly, I associate Bourdain with the power to seize upon life and exuberantly suck the marrow of pleasure out of everything. What is the darkness on the other side of the face we loved because we saw vistas of happiness?
Drudge:
What happened? I'd rather believe it was one of those accidental deaths by hanging. Perhaps he had some terrible ailment that led him to declare the end to life. I hate thinking that a man who exemplified energetic pleasure-seeking was actually not enjoying himself at all.
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His show was the only thing worth watching on CNN. Multi-million dollar hit to CNN.
Maybe he was going to be the next MeToo target.
What is the darkness on the other side of the face we loved because we saw vistas of happiness?
Maybe bipolar, with a carefully curated public image that only shows the ups.
Two ex-wives and one 11 year old daughter survive him.
And please no speculation. And speak no ill of the dead; especially the recently deceased. The guy was a real talent.
What a loss, and how inexplicable given that he had one of the world’s best jobs. Though in the episode that aired last week, he did mention in passing that over the years he’d eaten a lot of penis. I guess there’s only so much penis a man can eat.
"Maybe he was going to be the next MeToo target."
Via his Wikipedia page:
"In 2017 Bourdain became a vocal advocate against sexual harassment in restaurants[72] and Hollywood,[73] particularly following his partner Asia Argento's sexual abuse allegations against Harvey Weinstein.[74] Bourdain accused Hollywood director Quentin Tarantino of "complicity" in the Weinstein sex scandal.[75]"
Here is a photograph of his fantastically beautiful girlfriend Asia Argento.
“Perhaps he had some terrible ailment that led him to declare the end to life.”
Please don’t speculate. That’s what they do on CNN.
his fantastically beautiful girlfriend Asia Argento.
okay, now This Makes No Sense!
I never heard of him, though he turns up on two DVDs I don't remember the plots of.
Look at how many people didn't kill themselves.
see the overnight thread
If I may speculate, if David Begley allows it, I would say this was something that was either accidental or deliberate.
I liked his writing. Never saw his TV show because I don't watch cable.
I think Althouse's comment makes it more likely MeToo is involved. Most of the people involved carefully positioned themselves as progressive advocates, and any reveal would have exceptionally damaging consequences to a person with that branding.
It seems celebrity suicides are following the dynamic of the school-shooters.
"Kitchen Confidential" is just great. Love that book.
Here's the audiobook. Great info about restaurant work and sharply satiric attitude and intelligence.
Gutpunched. RIP.
I tended to avoid his show because of his politics, or perhaps how CNN tried to leverage sound bites of his politics. I couldn't buy in to his eating another culture's crappy food is the key to understanding BS either. Clearly he touched many people and it's sad someone like that takes their own life.
This hurts my heart. As Althouse said, he embodies the ideal of celebrating all the most mundane aspects of life with wonder.
I caught a show of his that he did in Libya, I believe, and he was absolutely thrilled that in a bombed out country, the people were so enjoying the meals they prepared amidst the wreckage.
Lately he had taken his show to fly-over country. I honestly expected snark and elite snobbishness. What I saw was appreciation of all things in this wondrous country.
I'm going to miss that man.
Who will be 3rd?
This has been a bleak week.
I hate thinking that a man who exemplified energetic pleasure-seeking was actually not enjoying himself at all.
Really? Who but someone not joying himself would spend so much time engaged in pleasure seeking?
Being content with one's life doesn't usually lead one to be searching endlessly for satiating experiences.
I'm really sad and shocked. His show was wonderful and thoughtful and provocative.
Sean Brock and Anthony Bourdain go to the Waffle House after a night of drinking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bct8stbZafI
From the photos, he appears to have regularly skipped leg day. That can eat at a man's soul.
And speak no ill of the dead; especially the recently deceased.
Except Barbara Bush, of course.
He was a heroin junkie when younger. Another famous chef he was feuding with once joked that he wouldn't let Bourdain in his restaurant because he liked his spoons unbent.
I suspect his demons just finally caught up to him. Poor man.
"Here is a photograph of his fantastically beautiful girlfriend Asia Argento."
This DOES bring in the #MeToo issue from a side door: Argento has been vocal of late about abuses she suffered in the movie industry.
From the Daily Beast:
"One of Harvey Weinstein’s first sexual-assault accuser has some words for her critics. In an op-ed penned this week for Women in the World, director and actress Asia Argento declared that she refuses to be “silenced.” Last October, Argento helped kick off the #MeToo movement when she leveled sexual-assault allegations against Weinstein, claiming the Hollywood mega-producer raped her when she was 21 years old. After coming forward with her story, Argento said she has been repeatedly bashed as a liar and opportunist. “High-profile establishment figures... are also feeling emboldened—not to confess their cowardice as shameless spectators but to denounce the #MeToo movement,” Argento wrote. “It’s open season on survivors.”..."
Seems odd* for him to have killed himself when she is going through an intense period of life already.
(*odd isn't quite the word, but can't put my finger on the right one this morning)
But then perhaps there is a connection: not in his being a predator, but his being in the midst of a highly volatile situation, with big names probably digging dirt on those they wish to silence.
I imagine there are ugly happenings behind the scenes, and maybe he found himself in a cat's cradle.
Shadows on the wall of a cave.
-LWL
I liked his book, and watched a few of his specials on TV years ago, but never saw his CNN show. Last I heard from Anthony Bourdain he was ranting and raving about the President. Perhaps he just couldn't stand to live in a world where Trump is succeeding. Trump Derangement Syndrome claims another victim.
Kate Spade killed herself and left behind a 13 year old daughter.
I don't celebrate her or her handbags. That makes me angry.
Then she left a note to the daughter that said "ask your father".
He was a former and rather extreme drug addict (heroin and crack), so he may have had a lot of deep problems he hadn't been fully rehabilitated from. All the success and good things that occurred when his book was a big hit doesn't necessarily wipe away all the demons from one's past. All the good things were happening late in life for him, and he probably still felt like his younger self who he himself has stated probably shouldn't have survived his 20's.
"I should’ve died in my 20s. I became successful in my 40s. I became a dad in my 50s. I feel like I’ve stolen a car — a really nice car — and I keep looking in the rearview mirror for flashing lights."
https://www.eater.com/2016/3/7/11172046/anthony-bourdain-interview-writing-process-drug-addiction
His show served up food, often hot and spicy,culture,politics and philosophy by an intrepid voyager who made me watch and want to travel to parts unknown. I will miss him.
Here is a photograph of his fantastically beautiful girlfriend Asia Argento.
Beauty has no effect after familiarity. You like the girl or you don't independent of beauty.
The reason being that after orgasm a guy isn't interested in sex, and the guy can remember the girlfriend in both ways at once.
Really nice and amusing girlfriend is better than fantastically beautiful girlfriend for that reason. It wears better.
So he let behind children too? How nice.
“If Trump and Kim Jong-un were going to have a bit of a summit to try and mend relations and they wanted you to cater, what would you serve?” asked a TMZ reporter.
“Hemlock," Bourdain deadpanned.
Bad things happen to those who oppose Trump. Although not by Trump. That's the Clinton's MO.
I m shocked.
I never paid attention to his politics. Why limit your pleasure in life by cutting off celebrities who mouth political opinions you don't like? Just ignore that stuff. It's like estranging yourself from your dad because he spouts off about how he hates Obama/Trump.
From David Sedaris's new book "Calypso":
"I join my family on Emerald Isle for Thanksgiving and have a great screaming fight with my Republican father, who yells at one point, “Donald Trump is not an asshole!” I find this funny but at the same time surprising. Regardless of whether you voted for him, I thought the president-elect’s identity as a despicable human being was something we could all agree on. I mean, he pretty much ran on it.... The morning after our argument, I come downstairs to find my father in the kitchen. “Are you still talking to me?” he asks. I look at him as if he were single-handedly responsible for the election of Donald Trump, as if he had knowingly cast the tiebreaking vote and all of what is to come is entirely his fault. Then I say, “Yes. Of course I’m still talking to you.” He turns and plods into the living room. “Horse’s ass.”"
Sedaris, David. Calypso (Kindle Locations 2035-2037). Little, Brown and Company. Kindle Edition.
Suicide is a terrible thing.
The first I saw of this, was this morning on Twitter. The CNN article linked to that article said nothing about Bourdain's apparent suicide, but did have a note at the bottom about Kate Spade's death. The only thing that was said was that he was unresponsive. that could be a heart attack or stroke. Later this was revised to say something about Bourdain committing suicide, but looking around there's nothing from an official (hospital or police) source.
While this was going on, Business Insider said the death was by hanging, saying the source was CNN. BI's article only pointed to Kate Spade's death by hanging. A little while later it said it was hanging.
If CNN has not actually confirmed his cause of death and this is a rumor that got out of hand, they can go rot.
He's gone, and it's a terrible thing, no matter what happened.
Alas, in laic France, where there are many many more like him and make the same choice, where there is no underlying spiritual essence to life, there is only the sensate pleasures. It is not so uncommon for men reaching sixty to find the body is no longer capable of maintaining the pleasure seeking of their twenties and thirties.
Since there is nothing eternal, nothing beyond the absorption of the senses, there is no longer a purpose to life. The word in French is "egoist," which we might translate as Narcissist.
I am sorry that ANYONE should opt to end their life in its fullness when there is so much more to come. Quel domage
Before the moral scolds further warm to their pernicious task perhaps they should take a little time-out in order to allow a few more details about his life to emerge.
How does one hang oneself? I wouldn't know how to do it. Hanging involves a noose, does it not? I'm sure that you can't just go into Home Depot and buy one off the shelf. So, I wonder if there are a lot of failed attempts at suicide...that we don't hear about.
"Look at how many people didn't kill themselves." How many? And where did you look?
"What a loss, and how inexplicable given that he had one of the world’s best jobs. Though in the episode that aired last week, he did mention in passing that over the years he’d eaten a lot of penis. I guess there’s only so much penis a man can eat."
Do you have any proof that correlates the number of blowjobs given with suicide? If not, you're comment suggests an insatiable craving on your part for raw cock. I suggest you try steak tartare first. If you commit suicide by blowjob, how would we know you exceeded your limit for dick? And how would we know that it wasn't, in actuality, a homicide?
https://www.depressioncomix.com/posts/219/
One of the best illustrations I’ve seen of suicidal depression
Why limit your pleasure in life by cutting off celebrities who mouth political opinions you don't like?
It's limiting misery in life, not limiting pleasure. You tune in to watch someone eating a hoof off of fancy china and end up with a 15 minute lecture about how you're a racist.
Life's too short to be miserable.
Actors are morons. Screenwriters are where the action is.
One of the few, like Hitchens, out of the closet honest cable news personalities. My favorite show of his was the one during the Hezbollah war with Israel where he is evacuated by the US Navy. He teared up and self flagellated himself over previously having looked down upon US service personnel. It made him realize our armed forces are made up of good and decent people like himself. Best TV on CNN ever.
Actors can be bad actors, or at least have tics that annoy the hell out of you.
Pierce Brosnan doing sudden anger is awful. "That's a bad actor doing anger."
Matt Damon doing Bourne has a tongue nearly extended on teeth emotion that is god knows that emotion it is. The director likes it, whatever it is.
Work on those, not the politics.
I enjoyed his show quite a bit. He didn't seem like a particularly happy person though.
I'm really saddened by it. He seemed like the guy who you would go to if you thought you were going to commit suicide, and he would tell you that's bullshit don't do it.
Hillarywoodland does not provide pleasure. Only boring groans.
Hollywood is not a substitute for God or my dad.
rehjam said
It's limiting misery in life, not limiting pleasure. You tune in to watch someone eating a hoof off of fancy china and end up with a 15 minute lecture about how you're a racist.
Life's too short to be miserable.
Word.
Perhaps the guilt of all that cultural appropriation finally got to him.
As a therapist, one of the interesting aphorisms I learned was that "people who kill themselves don't want to die, they want to escape their pain and suicide seems like the only option". Suicide feels selfish to survivors and, apparently, inescapable to the those who attempt. When I read reports such as Bourdain, I wonder how bad his pain was that death seemed the only answer.
Huge loss. Literally the only thing I would ever eant to watch on CNN. Loved his books. His newest cookbook was filled with warm fuzzy wife and daughter stuff. Ahit this sucks. Althouse please live a long time.
Or I will have no blogs to read...
What other blogs besides Althouse are any good? Nothing on the blogroll is appealing.
With CNN controlling the narrative, the truth may be hard to find.
Oh I guess the blogroll is gone... which sort of proves my point.
What you see on TV isn't reality.
He was lonely. People are either stupid or lonely, and Bourdain was not stupid. And he probably knew Kate Spade. Zeitgeist. Not only is suicide a terrible thing to do to your friends and family, but it sets an awful example for others. They will both be missed. I wish this trend would end quickly and the bodies stop piling up, but it won't. Human condition. For some, at least most of the time, knowing that heals. Not for these two.
"Before the moral scolds further warm to ...
And lo, a moral scold appears, and his name is ARM.
Loved his show No Reservations. Season 7 Cambodia. Check it out on youtube. Excellent presentation.
"Oh I guess the blogroll is gone... which sort of proves my point."
Heh.
Well, I mainly read the mainstream news. It's more interesting to comment on, a more direct line to what's happening. Why would I read someone else's commentary before getting right to what I think? I certainly wouldn't use someone's blog as my filter to see what stories are worth blogging. Selecting for bloggability is a key to blogging. Just going to a blog and seeing what that person is blogging and then linking to that... that has never been my method. If I were a free-ranging commenter, I'd have a list of blogs that worked for me. But I'm a blogger.
"Just going to a blog and seeing what that person is blogging and then linking to that... that has never been my method."
But when I started blogging I believed it was the right method, because I was so used to reading Instapundit and assumed it defined what blogging really is. But I could never force myself to work like that. I kept planning to change, but the change that evolved was that I came to see what I was doing naturally from Day 1 was the right way -- at least for me.
Sad. From watching his show, you'd never think he was the type of guy who would commit suicide. But public people are often very good about hiding aspects of their private life.
From observing their effect on family members, I'm wary of anti-depressants. Read that Katie Spade was taking them. Wonder if AB was as well. Anecdotal evidence if he were, but would feed into my bias against them.
I agree with ARM. (mark it)
If you read the story, The Snows of Kilimanjaro, it is the story of a man who lived his life well, and to the fullest. Next thing you know, Papa is sucking off a shotgun in a cabin in the woods.
“The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.”
― David Foster Wallace
Wallace also hanged himself.
Way more interesting to come here to see what Althouse thinks of the news vs. what Althouse thinks someone else thinks of the news. Although the occasional interchange with instapundit is very cool. That's where I learned about this blog. That questionnaire on another blog that mentioned Antonio Damasio's book got me interested. That book is amazing. Changed my life.
MayBee said... I'm really saddened by it. He seemed like the guy who you would go to if you thought you were going to commit suicide, and he would tell you that's bullshit don't do it.
That's a good observation. It reminds me of the story of Kurt Cobain calling Henry Rollins for help with everything and Rollins trying, but there was nothing anyone could do really. Whatever Bourdain could say to himself, he couldn't save himself.
Amexpat, thing about people taking antidepressants is that they may have an underlying condition. It may be that drugs sometimes kill people, but for suicides it seems more likely that we're seeing people killing people.
He left an 11 year old child. The fashion designer left a 13 year old. I won't mourn these people
Thank you Althouse, but is anyone else really doing what you do from the same political (ie non-political) angle and also pop culture, music, intellectual life and everything else? I think it is very unique.
I hate thinking that a man who exemplified energetic pleasure-seeking was actually not enjoying himself at all.
Stoics beat Epicureans, but what's the spread?
Speaking of which I distressed to learn that George Soros has an interest (maybe 16%) in the syndication of the phenomenal racehorse, Justify. I love that red colt. He's smart, cool, and just a nice ride. Hope he wins tomorrow for his sake as a sire, for Bob Baffert (2 Triple Crowns!) and Mike Smith. I won't bet on him because the last time I backed such a superior horse in the Florida Derby I earned five cents on the dollar, not even enough to buy a really good cigar.
Justify isn't the colt Secretariat was, nor is he particularly handsome — a bit gangly and slightly roman-nosed, but he may round out as a horse.
I hope Soros chokes on his breakfast long before the first stud fees are paid.
I could never get into Instapundit. It's too much just linking to stuff without anything interesting to say. And also not really cultured.
Drudge is excellent, but he is really only a brilliant editor.
Tim in Vermont: Is "The Snows of Kilimanjaro" really a portrait of a man who lived life to the fullest? It's been a few years since I've read it, but my recollection is that one of the things eating away at the protagonist is how he wasted his life.
I know this thread is about Bourdain, but it is very difficult to do what Althouse has done here. And the way of thinking is very unique. I just afraid nobody else can do this.
We don't know it was suicide. Could have been an accident. Cf David Carradine.
I read something probably once a week on Althouse that fundamentally alters the way I think about something important. This is gleaning big ideas, not facts.
The concept of better than nothing is a high standard is pretty life-altering...
I saw his show a few times and enjoyed it. He seemed to live an adventurous and enjoyable life. I marveled at the way he consumed prodigious meals and remained lean and fit. That has to be some kind of gift from the gods. An enviable life and not just in one dimension. His life was not some kind of linear journey from the slums to the penthouse but was rather a circuit around the blackness at the center of his existence, That black spot finally sucked him in.
Bob Boyd said
"The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise."
I have a sister who led a successful, normal life but at age 70 began to experience a feeling that suicide was inevitable. She was not a depressed person but had an impulse she felt was irresistible. She went to her GP who referred her to a psychiatrist. The shrink told her she had a chemical imbalance and put her on a medication that cleared up her impulse and she now is going on as normal as before. Didn't ask her what the chemical or prescription was but just passing on the account she gave me.
I've had my own thoughts about suicide and suspect most intelligent people do. But it was a passing thing and tended to be associated with failures and disappointments. There was never the feeling of inevitability.
So he may have been choking himself masturbating to get a better orgasm. If you are his heirs that is a better narrative because it's not murder and you can possibly get an insurance payout.
Are they going to ban....now?
If it only saves 1 person.
I don't like to speak ill of the dead, but I always thought he was a bit of a smug asshole.
There was a report that suicides in North Dakota and Minnesota are way up, nearly double what they were 20 years ago. But I haven't read the report, so I don't know if they controlled for the fact that it used to be common to report suicides as accidental deaths.
He may have been like the person who chokes and masturbates himself in a burning high rise.
Why limit your pleasure in life by cutting off celebrities who mouth political opinions you don't like? Just ignore that stuff.
Because the fact that you and those like you ignored it for the last fifty years produced the clusterfuck we are living in today.
His show was the only thing worth watching on CNN.
Ditto. I overlooked his politics because the travelogues were unusual and excellent. He did a show about Cuba and didn’t sugarcoat the conditions there, like most Lefties would. That earned him my respect. One of the Cubans interviewed by him, a journalist, was imprisoned soon after Bourdain left Cuba and Bourdain made a point of it.
"Similarly, I associate Bourdain with the power to seize upon life and exuberantly suck the marrow of pleasure out of everything. What is the darkness on the other side of the face we loved because we saw vistas of happiness? . . . I hate thinking that a man who exemplified energetic pleasure-seeking was actually not enjoying himself at all."
I am surprised you viewed him that way. The very tone of his commentary always struck me as less than "exuberant," as the tone of an addict trying to "seize upon life," whose "pleasure-seeking" was just a tad too relentless. If I am not mistaken, he was also "separated" from his beautiful "girlfriend."
I thought he was a miserable cuss. An entertaining miserable cuss, but miserable.
What an awful loss, I loved his show on Sunday nights on CNN. He could eat more than any thin man of his size could eat I suspect, I was always amazed at how much he ate on his shows. His dry sense of humor was perfect for the show and the different situations he was placed in, in the various countries, some of which were pretty scary. He also left a young child, as Kate Spade did, I personally can’t understand the depths of despair that would make someone do that to their families, but depression can be selfish and unrelenting.
In last 2 physicals I’ve had there was a question about suicidal ideologies as part of the health questionnaire, good idea, but would truly depressed people tell the truth about this? Some, but not all.
"Why limit your pleasure in life by cutting off celebrities who mouth political opinions you don't like? Just ignore that stuff."
Again, I am surprised. As Althouse has made clear, to her credit, she despises the way Hollywood manipulates audiences through degrading crap. While nostalgically enamored of some old pop culture, she recognizes the sheer dehumanizing nonsense our culture industry produces. But that culture industry is run by and for celebrities, most of whom also happen to have rancid political opinions. Cutting them off would seem to do healthy double duty, a two-fer for us deplorables.
What I don't understand about Bourdain and Spade is: where were their families and friends as these people obviously descended into the hell of depression? It's one thing for a teen ager who is naturally volatile to hide his/her depression. It is much harder for an adult. What the hell was Kate Spade's husband doing while she decided to hang herself? She could not possibly have been behaving "normally" and then said "That's it!" If I read things correctly Spade had been visiting mental health folk in the past. Bourdain was working with people all day long. Why weren't they paying attention?
I always thought he was a pretentious ass, but never expected this. Sad.
"I can’t understand the depths of despair that would make someone do that to their families, but depression is selfish."
The first sentiment conflicts with the second.
"but would truly depressed people tell the truth about this? Some, but not all."
Yep. I lost a good friend via this. He was in-patient after first narrowly survived attempt. His mother (who was on permanent disability for psych reasons) and platonic roommate/girlfriend with her own issues (spurned by him) were supporting him in his desire for release. Without the others around, I asked him if he thought he would be safe from himself..he said no. I attended the friends and family meeting regarding release and no one would believe me.
He was released and went to a few sessions as they adjusted his new meds...was dead about a month later. I remember this was right about the time they discovered initial adjustment to drugs like his could increase in suicidal ideation.
For reason I always think of the Beverly hills "Jethro Boudine" when i heard his name. Wasn't a fan. He always seem to have a foul mouth, his book was full of F-bombs, as he was trying to overcompensate for being a guy who cooks for a living.
Celebrity cooks have a bad track record. Suicides, Racists, Insider traders, drunks, and child molesters.
People used to write that Hemingway always seemed to be playing a part of the Macho tough guy and I got the same vibe from AB - one of the frantic "i'm living life to its fullest" types who are dead inside.
How do we know Anthony “descended into the hell of depression”. Maybe he got an unfavorable second opinion and decided he “didn’t need this s**t”. Before the lawyers took charge your family doctor would prescribe pain killers, tell you how dangerous they are and send you home to die a painless death. Then he’d sign the death certificate listing the cause of death as whatever terminal illness you had. We’re a lot smarter than that now. We want boards an commissions and armies of bureaucrats making sure we do it in accordance with policy
I understand setting aside his politics to enjoy his show. However, in answering the question "why, and why now?" I keeping thinking about his politics. First, lets not ignore that his show was on CNN, not the Food or Cooking networks. He also was often at odds with the chef personalities there. It seems many top chefs get along, as even one was the first to find him; but in that community, Bourdain seemed to be at a pole rather than in the middle.
We drop words like TDS or BDS, but the heart of that is derangement, which denotes a mental problem. Indeed, it is a rather destructive mental health concern. When using a term like TDS, are you doing it to dehumanize the person you're labeling, or because you really see a derangement and calling it for what it is.
From my readings of disagreements between Bourdain and other TV chef personalities; I always thought Bourdain was over the top and thus unstable/unbalanced. I took that as him having demons of his own, and trying to project those problems onto others. For that reason, I could never enjoy his show. I also found his willingness to "try new things" and "be excited" to be somewhat self-inflicting. Bourdain, to me, didn't seem to enjoy the truly weird and exotic the way Andrew Zimmern does. All this to say, I'm just not surprised to see Bourdain become completely self-destructive and take his own life. Especially when he surrounded himself with so many other negative personalities that currently haunt the hallways of CNN.
Self-abortion. The cognitive dissonance is deafening.
Dumped by the hot gf?
"I can’t understand the depths of despair that would make someone do that to their families, but depression is selfish."
Get the quote right.
“The first sentiment conflicts with the second.”
No it doesn’t. You ignored the word “personally”, because you misquoted me.
“I personally can’t understand the depths of despair that would make someone do that to their families, but depression can be selfish and unrelenting.”
I’ve seen it as a psych nurse many times. I personally haven’t experienced it so it is difficult to understand on a personal level.
Suicide rates way up over past 20 years. Got to think social media largely responsible. All the constant negativity and meanness takes its toll.
Suicide has become not only socially acceptable, but fashionable. Very progressive.
I highly recommend The Noonday Demon: An Atlas of Depression, by Andrew Solomon. I believe it was there that he wrote, describing the worst of his own depression following the death of his mother, that it was like trying to vomit without a mouth.
I copy/pasted from your post, Inga.
Apparently you were revising while I was responding:
Comment deleted
This comment has been removed by the author.
6/8/18, 9:36 AM
Not that it changes anything.
I am very sad and on the verge of tears.
Tony was a terrific writer, including his Bobby Gold mysteries. He also had an endearing and engaging personality.
We have very different political views and I detest the smug east coast liberalism that he espoused, but I still really liked the guy.
He seems to have been tortured by demons for a long time. Hence his former drug addiction and heavy alcohol consumption.
R.I.P. Tony. You were one of the special ones.
"'What a loss, and how inexplicable given that he had one of the world’s best jobs. Though in the episode that aired last week, he did mention in passing that over the years he’d eaten a lot of penis. I guess there’s only so much penis a man can eat.'
"Do you have any proof that correlates the number of blowjobs given with suicide? If not, you're comment suggests an insatiable craving on your part for raw cock."
Um...he was speaking about the number of animal penises he had eaten in meals prepared for him on his various travels.
Bon Surber has a list of various celebrities who are relentless and ridiculous in their hatred of President Trump. Something bad always happens to them. He is just the latest one to add to the list.
If you caught his act on the cooking competition show "The Taste" you would realize that he was indeed a smug asshole and in fact a horrible person. Even the screaming French asshole guy was a better person.
speak no ill of the dead; especially the recently deceased. The guy was a real talent.\
Speak ill of anyone who, by his actions, will lead others to do the same and take their lives. A talent for scandal - leading others into evil - is a talent we could do with a lot less of in this world.
Everyone one of these is, at best, a message to those with suicidal ideation, "Why shouldn't I kill myself?"
Did this guy have issues? Possibly, probably, like many of us. One issue he had was the example of people like Robin Williams and this Kate Spade person.
Speak no ill of the dead. Speak openly and loudly of evil - from whomever it comes - else we only get more evil.
When the last act of your life -- an act that will ultimately define who and what you are -- is to kill a human being, then that is nothing to celebrate, but to condemn. Whatever else he may ever have been, he is a killer.
A killer of himself, and accessory by his example to the killing of the next person who engages in self-murder, just as sure as if he were to physically push them off the ledge himself.
Was suicidal some years back. The right meds and talk therapy got me on a more even keel, but the wrong meds almost finished what my depression started. So you have to pray there is a right dosage and you find it in time. Because once your brain decides that death is the only escape from a messed up feedback loop of hopelessness, logic is of minimal help.
As for suicides being selfish, generally they (we) are only a burden we are relieving others of. Know better now, but in the worst of the depression I did not.
"What is the darkness on the other side of the face we loved because we saw vistas of happiness?"
Parts Unknown.
I will read the story again. I probably missed something.
The imminent end of the world Pedophilia Rings seems to have set off the suiciding of famous potential witnesses. It reminds me of top Nazis hurring to execute high value German insider prisoners as Patton and Zhukov's Armies closed in in April 1945. Deitrich Bonhoeffer got taken out as a message to other Germans with insider knowledge.
I can’t understand the depths of despair that would make someone do that to their families, but depression is selfish
I CAN understand the depths of pain and despair that would make someone do that, and suicide (not the depression, which often has an involuntary bio-chemical component) is selfish. But, as I said, there are some mitigating circumstances beyond the pain, such as the culture making it acceptable.
Misplaced and false compassion do not help, they only reinforce the destructive feelings, beliefs and actions.
She could not possibly have been behaving "normally" and then said "That's it!"
If she had been depressed for a long time, then whatever behavior she had to express it, or cover it, was her "normal" behavior. From "just barely holding on" to "that's it" would just be a matter of degree.
Hard core partiers like Bourdain are looking for happiness in all the wrong places. All research and life wisdom teach us that happiness comes from doing things that are meaningful to us. Having fun and partying are nice diversions that we all need but incessant pursuit of them is typically an attempt to run away from underlying unhappiness. He was also an avowed atheist from what I saw and had a leftist's religious connection to politics. He became the man he professed to be at great loss to his soul. One too many Sunday Morning Coming Down experiences for him apparently. I can only hope his daughter learns from his experience.
"I associate Bourdain with the power to seize upon life and exuberantly suck the marrow of pleasure out of everything."
If "suck[ing] the marrow of pleasure" is the focus and purpose of one's life, suicide is an entirely rational response once you find yourself sucking on sour lemons. As any fan of MASH could tell you, suicide is a painless cure-all. And phrases like "seize upon life" and the "suck the marrow of pleasure" are so tired and trite here, trying as they do to disguise the emptiness of a life having pleasure-seeking as its objective. That and the "its all about me" focus that goes with it is the natural result of the death of God. So it may well be that Bourdain's solution or Nietzsche's madness is what those professing the death of God and having the courage of that conviction can look forward to.
His poor daughter. How awful.
@Glenn I am willing to accept another reason for Bourdain's suicide, but until I see a factual account I will assume depression. I have dealt with it and know how insidious it is. In most cases of 'unexplained" suicide depression is the chief factor that underlays the ability to "do this to friends and family". If you wish some insights into the "hell of depression" read William Styron's Darkness Visible.
"Hard core partiers like Bourdain are looking for happiness in all the wrong places."
The problem is these mentally ill celebrities are thrust forward by the media as worthy of emulation or respect.
In better times, no one cared what a TV Chef thought about the POTUS or his "deep" thoughts on life in general. Julia Child just cooked and made mild jokes. I vaguely remember my mother watching the "Galloping Gourmet" and he's still alive per wikipedia.
@Infinite Monkey There are effective treatments for long term depression. If you are aware that someone is prone to depression then you pay attention. You learn the warning signs and you take action. If you have been around depression enough you can almost feel when a person goes "off-kilter". Was Spade off her meds?
I guess what I am really trying to say is that friends and companions should be sensitive to the actions and attitudes of depressives and not assume "everything will work out"; that they are on their meds; that they don't need intervention.
Bourdain could have left with the note like actor George Sanders ”Dear World,” Sanders wrote, ”I am leaving because I am bored.”
One would not ignore the symptoms of a heart attack, or a brain tumor but it is all too easy to ignore the symptoms of depression and excuse one's need to be involved.
traditionalguy said...
The imminent end of the world Pedophilia Rings seems to have set off the suiciding of famous potential witnesses. It reminds me of top Nazis hurring to execute high value German insider prisoners as Patton and Zhukov's Armies closed in in April 1945. Deitrich Bonhoeffer got taken out as a message to other Germans with insider knowledge.
This was my first thought.
Well, this and the fact that the Nazis were all socialists.
"Charles Krauthammer, the beloved and brilliant Fox News Channel personality who gave up a pioneering career in psychiatry to become a Pulitzer Prize-winning political analyst, on Friday revealed the heartbreaking news that he is in the final stages of a losing battle with cancer."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/08/fox-news-star-charles-krauthammer-reveals-has-weeks-to-live-in-heartbreaking-letter.html
@ Inga You make a very good point. Truly depressed, people have a hard time identifying that they are depressed so a straight forward question is apt to fail. Their brains are just not working right and they have a very difficult time identifying their "problem".
traditionalguy said...
"The imminent end of the world Pedophilia Rings seems to have set off the suiciding of famous potential witnesses"
This is on the nose. There has been a lot of speculation that there would be a "Suicide Weekend" when the sealed indictments of these pedophiles and their enablers and accomplices would be brought down and arrest would be made. It was predicted for the early summer.
The only connection between Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain is that it is reported that they both sat on the Board of the New York Center for Children and did "work" with the Clinton foundation in Haiti.
Add that to the fact that Bourdain was jaded hedonist who spent a hell of a lot of time in Thailand and a clearer picture emerges. The ultra liberal progressives who trash traditional values and Christianity are celebrated and revered by people like Althouse who tell us to ignore their politics. Sometimes it catches up to them.
Lets see how many more "inexplicable" suicides of celebrities happen in the coming week.
My 10:27 should be “suicidal ideation”. Politics snuck in my brain...
The recent arrest of the partisan leaker from the Senate Intelligence committee is another sign that the long delayed sealed indictments that the Justice Department has been holding will start to see the light of day. They will be doled out drip by drip over the summer leading up to the elections in November. It was also sex related as a reporter from the New York Times was spreading her legs to a guy in his fifties to get information that got her promoted from one job to another.
A lot of people are hearing footsteps.
“This was my first thought.
Well, this and the fact that the Nazis were all socialists.”
Thanks for the chuckle, we need it on this morose thread.
The press is squealing about this arrest and the fact that the phone records of the whore posing as a reporter were seized. They said it would have a chilling effect on "whistle blowers."
That's what they are calling it now? I don't think she was blowing his whistle.
It was strictly sex to get ahead Rose McGowan style. Give head to get ahead. I bet a lot of that goes on in Washington. How else would an empty headed cunt like Gretchen Carlson ever have a job?
What doesn't make sense to me about these celebrities' deaths is them having young children, so much love in their lives, be so successful and involved with people on a daily basis and yet be so deeply unhappy. How did they manage to function so well?
The other thing that mystifies me is how some people seem impervious to suicide, no matter how much they mess up their lives. Harvey Weinstein and Bernie Madoff come to mind.
Democratic politics and pedophilia are inextricably linked. If you examine the activities of Democratic fixed Tony Podesta and his brother you will find many very unsavory things. All of which have been covered up and scoffed at by the mainstream media.
The same media that provides sex to get information to destroy the Trump administration. If you stop to think about it you would be outraged.
Still it is more important that we fire Roseanne over a one line tweet and talk about that for weeks.
Progressives are very sick and evil people.
Politics and sex are at the root of all of it. If you ignore that when you think about, follow or support a celebrity you are fooling yourself.
I never liked his shows. I think I must have seen a re-run or two, but since I don't have cable, I haven't seen him in years.
To me, cooking is not glamorous or interesting to watch. I don't think I ever saw him cook, as he was only eating.
So after making millions from this stupid gig, why not just go home?
[[ photograph of his fantastically beautiful girlfriend Asia Argento.]]
She looks a lot like his last wife!
Thanks for sharing your personal experience, gbarto.
It is important foe people total openly about these things - both the speaker and the audience.
Sorry about the typos - autocorrect and bad typing skills.
[[She could not possibly have been behaving "normally" and then said "That's it!"]]
People who are deciding to suicide often "improve" immediately beforehand because to them, relief is in sight.
I've read two of his books and numerous articles, and watched a lot of his shows. It seemed to me that he had matured in some ways in the past decade. His politics didn't change but he seemed to have opened his mind to appreciating good people regardless of politics, and of understanding why they might see things the way they did. He was egotistical and aloof and smart. He was a good writer and witty as hell. But as the cliche goes, it was always obvious to me that he had his demons, and a restlessness.
"This is on the nose. There has been a lot of speculation that there would be a 'Suicide Weekend' when the sealed indictments of these pedophiles and their enablers and accomplices would be brought down and arrest would be made. It was predicted for the early summer.
"The only connection between Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain is that it is reported that they both sat on the Board of the New York Center for Children and did "work" with the Clinton foundation in Haiti.
"Add that to the fact that Bourdain was jaded hedonist who spent a hell of a lot of time in Thailand and a clearer picture emerges."
Aha! Sherlock Holmes Peel has made the great discoverey: Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain were pedophiles! They killed themselves to escape prison and shame! Maybe that's what's going on with Charles Krauthammer, too! Oh, no...couldn't be...he was on the right. We all know pedos are leftists!
Keep us updated to developments in the case, Mr. Peel! We need that picture to be made even clearer!
Hey I wouldn't be surprised if Washington insider and all around elitist Charle Krauthammer was involved. Why are you discriminating against the handicapped Cookie? Just because he is in a wheelchair doesn't mean he can't be a kid toucher.
You are such a bigot.
Of course I would expect a die hard communist like Robert Cook to jump to the defense of progressive pedophiles. It is what you do.
Carry on Comrade.
I don't know if they are part of the ring. We will see if there are anymore unexplained "tragic" suicides on Suicide Weekend on the Discovery Network.
Shark week is so passe. It is only for people interested in normal adult heterosexual sex like President Trump.
“If Trump and Kim Jong-un were going to have a bit of a summit to try and mend relations and they wanted you to cater, what would you serve?” asked a TMZ reporter.
“Hemlock," Bourdain deadpanned.
Thanks for posting that. Never watched the show. Now I know why.
And I'm supposed to feel bad he offed himself?
Nope.
Next.
Why limit your pleasure in life by cutting off celebrities who mouth political opinions you don't like?
Because there are plenty of people who don't go out of their way to piss me off?
"Why limit your pleasure in life by cutting off celebrities who mouth political opinions you don't like?"
Because you are putting money in the pockets who hate you, your values and America.
You know like the kneeling monkeys of the NFL.
Why limit your pleasure in life by cutting off celebrities who mouth political opinions you don't like? Just ignore that stuff.
Because I don't financially reward people who have expressed distaste, if not actual hatred, for people who don't agree with them. Their expressing this distaste and hatred of an entire class of people, which extends to me negates any skills or work that they may have done.
They don't deserve anything from me, including attention.
I'm also reminded of a Dylan lyric:
Now everything’s a little upside down, as a matter of fact the wheels have stopped
What’s good is bad, what’s bad is good, you’ll find out when you reach the top
You’re on the bottom
No amount of fame and fortune changes universal realities of life.
Now if someone can hand Gordon Ramsey a belt and a porno magazine we might be getting somewhere.
Well, I mainly read the mainstream news. It's more interesting to comment on, a more direct line to what's happening. Why would I read someone else's commentary before getting right to what I think?
What do think the New York Time is?
What I don't understand about Bourdain and Spade is: where were their families and friends as these people obviously descended into the hell of depression?
I think most people (those who haven't experienced living with mentally ill loved ones) overestimate how much other people can do even if they have these concerns. Kate Spade's sister described a lengthy attempt she'd made to get her into an inpatient facility- researching a place that worked with other celebrities so she knew they'd be discreet, and ultimately even agreeing to go with her and pretend to be a patient herself, all because KS was worried about damaging her brand. Most people don't have that particular concern, but I'd bet that most people who are experiencing suicidal ideation resist help that is offered. Add to that the fact that loved ones aren't trained to deal with this and may say the wrong things, and that they are also often caught up in stressful emotional situations with the person and not necessarily clear headed at the time either.
Are you giving up Food, this time, due to the Creep Factor?
I know a guy who at one time was about to kill himself. He thought he'd lost everything, including his family. Good thing he didn't. He loves his life now. If he had gone through with it, he'd be missing all of the wonderful things that his past self could never have foreseen.
Suicide, don't do it. Don't destroy everything for Future You.
"I know a guy who at one time was about to kill himself. He thought he'd lost everything, including his family. Good thing he didn't. He loves his life now. If he had gone through with it, he'd be missing all of the wonderful things that his past self could never have foreseen."
A high school friend of mine killed himself when he was only 19. He had just recently moved into an apartment with a friend of his, and he apparently took an overdose of pills. An ambulance was called, and he was sped to the hospital. As he was over 18, his parents were not called immediately. The next morning, his parents were called and told he had been admitted and was recovering. As they were dressing to drive into town, they got another call from the hospital informing them he had killed himself in his hospital room. (I never asked them, but I heard he had hanged himself.)
I have thought of him often over the years. (This occurred in the mid-70s). I think of all the things that have happened since then that would have amazed and delighted him, and I feel sorry he has not been here to experience it. He was smart and funny and talented, but he occasionally would "joke" that one day he would kill himself. He always said it in a humorous way and context, and we would all laugh.
Robert, that is incredibly sad.
My friend was in his late forties or early fifties. Life is full of the possibility of joy and surprises at every age.
Sorry about your friend.
No comment on his inner turmoil.
His public persona is another matter.
Used to like the guy until he started to believe his press clippings.
His stated desire to cook dinner for Trump so he could poison him with hemlock goes beyond the pale and shows Bourdain to be a Grade 'A' assh*le and on this topic fark him.
I loved his shows. I don't believe after reading about AEA that he just hung himself. The hotel photos there was no place to hang from. As one person wrote he was "chasing the dragon of orgasms." RIP buddy.
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