Happy 200th Birthday Karl Marx! You believed that everyone should have a seat at the table & that the greed of the rich would eventually bring us all down. You believed that everyone deserves a slice of the pie. You knew that the super wealthy were out to grab whatever they could— Michael Moore (@MMFlint) May 5, 2018
The mainstream media stories I'm seeing tend to be about the Chinese statue: "Karl Marx’s German home town celebrates his 200th birthday with a Chinese statue — and a struggle" (WaPo):
The unveiling of a two-ton Chinese-funded sculpture to honor the German philosopher on the 200th anniversary of his birth brought scads of tourists to Trier, where his life began. While here, they took in Marx lectures, toured the Marx family home and bought vast quantities of marked-up Marx souvenirs....I went back to Paul Johnson's book "Intellectuals: From Marx and Tolstoy to Sartre and Chomsky" and reread the chapter on Marx. Excerpt:
The city is split over whether a democratic nation such as Germany should be erecting monuments that are paid for, designed and built by an authoritarian one such as China. The divide spilled into the streets Saturday with dueling demonstrations for and against the monolith, forming a noisy backdrop to the statue’s official dedication....
Not so long ago, Germany was tearing down statues of Marx. An icon of communist East Germany, his likeness was scrubbed from many a town square after the country’s reunification under democracy and capitalism in 1990....
His angry egoism had physical as well as psychological roots. He led a peculiarly unhealthy life, took very little exercise, ate highly spiced food, often in large quantities, smoked heavily, drank a lot, especially strong ale, and as a result had constant trouble with his liver. He rarely took baths or washed much at all. This, plus his unsuitable diet, may explain the veritable plague of boils from which he suffered for a quarter of a century. They increased his natural irritability and seem to have been at their worst while he was writing Capital. ‘Whatever happens,’ he wrote grimly to Engels, ‘I hope the bourgeoisie as long as they exist will have cause to remember my carbuncles.’ The boils varied in numbers, size and intensity but at one time or another they appeared on all parts of his body, including his cheeks, the bridge of his nose, his bottom, which meant he could not write, and his penis. In 1873 they brought on a nervous collapse marked by trembling and huge bursts of rage.
पोस्ट्स
१४७ टिप्पण्या:
"You believed that everyone should have a seat at the table & that the greed of the rich would eventually bring us all down. You believed that everyone deserves a slice of the pie. You knew that the super wealthy were out to grab whatever they could."
OMG.
Marx could be crude and nasty, of course, but he wasn't stupid like his latter-day fanboys.
From Marx to Moore: "das andere Mal als Farce."
What a national treasure Michael Moore is. Is the man ever right?
Self awareness was never one of Michael Moore's strong suits.
It's also Cinco de Mayo.
his bottom, which meant he could not write
Non sequitur!
Good Old Michael, he would eat the whole pie.
The boils varied in numbers, size and intensity but at one time or another they appeared on all parts of his body, including his cheeks, the bridge of his nose, his bottom, which meant he could not write, and his penis.
So maybe there is a just God after all.
In the intro to The Walls Came Tumbling Down Gale Stokes noted that "...only a few months after the collapse of the Communist regimes in eastern Europe the main reaction of visitors viewing historical displays from the Communist era was laughter". How have people forgotten this? Then again, I thought the New Left had died off until Mr Obama came along.
I always wonder if Marx would be sad to see elite authoritarians essentially co opt his philosophy or if he knew that was the logical end game the whole time.
When you peel back the onion you get just plain old biblical covetousness.
Sounds like just the type of fellow I want to be informing society on how to structure itself. Physician heal thyself!
As long as no one gets too large a slice, who cares how small the pie gets?
The goal was power. Marx wanted his increased. And he was enamored of Malthusian thinking.
To think that a plague of boils might have killed a 100 million people.
"So maybe there is a just God after all."
I was thinking almost the same thing.
My Bernie Bro daughter bought a small bust of him in London one time when we were there.
Marx was a great believer in equality who was happy to screw his housekeeper. Not all Victorian snobs would do that. Most, perhaps, but not all.
Marx seems like he was a great guy to be around. Kind of like Michael Moore is today. I think we should all chip in and buy Michael Moore a ticket to Venezuela. Make it 'From the People'. Let him breathe in the refined air of Socialism at work. He obviously missed the 20th century and the 50 or so million killed under Socialism/Communism. Maybe he'll enjoy the fruits of their 'labor' in today's Venezuela. Then, while he's gone, we'll open up his 4 homes to the 'people' and let them share in his bounty. What a wonderful thing Socialism is.
Moore is truly one of the dumbest in a long line of stupid f***ing preeners calling themselves Socialists. They should be mocked steadily by any breathing human.
Happy 200th Birthday Karl Marx!
Because, then as now, bad science is a perfect cover for hare-brained Romantic Utopianism.
Seeing the worker slaves suffering and enduring to enrich the wealthy is called Marxism. It could be called Steinbeckism after he wrote Grapes of Wrath. But Marx never stopped with description of Industrial Capitalism. He went on to propose the means of production be stolen and the prior owners killed.
And workers were still made slaves with no escapes allowed and God made into an illegal counter revolutionist.
Animal Farm was correct. All Marx gives the worker slaves is another more evil empire ruling over their suffering with a Secret Police torturing and murderimg them.
Except for the hundreds of millions who have died because of those ideals...
So a lazy useless boil on society squirts his pus over all society in a huge cancerous hate mail.
The parallels between his atrocious physical demeanor and that of your average Feminist professor, anborn loser in the lists of love, are striking and obvious.
his bottom, which meant he could not write
It makes perfect sense. He couldn't pull shit out of his ass
(Eaglebeak)
Marx was certainly instrumental in introducing into the Left the repellent anti-Semitism that has characterized it ever since.
Before I proceed--yes, Marx was of Jewish extraction, but he had extreme hostility towards Jews, and one of his deathless and disgusting phrases--first offered to the world in his 1845 Theses on Feuerbach--was the expression "dirty-judaical."
No wonder his epigonoi spent so much time on the "Jewish Question." Stalin was venomous towards the Jews, which continued throughout the existence of the Soviet Union and still in Putin's Russia.
So--Marx--what a wretch.
As to Michael Moore? I have rarely read a more bowdlerized expression of Marx's thought. Marx was just about 100% wrong, but he wasn't the simpleton that Moore thinks he was.
Engels, by the way, was a wealthy capitalist, which enabled Marx not to have to work at all--thus becoming one of the "vanguard intelligentsia leading the working classes" that we used to hear so much about from Marxists, until they dropped the working class for identity politics of the most Hillary-esque sort.
Marxism is the creed of life's losers who think they are more important than other people and it's founder Karl Marx was a huge life loser who lived off of others and kept his family in squalor because he considered himself too important to work for a living.
It's no accident that Marxism attracts self important losers into thinking they are superior beings. Idiots like Michael Moore are shining examples of it.
Celebrating Marx's birthday is like celebrating Hitlers birthday.
I love being lectured about rich greediness by a guy who's worth $50 million+.
Moore - "the greed of the rich would eventually bring us all down."
“I have never understood why it is 'greed' to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.” -- Sowell
+
"Think about it: I could become so greedy that I wanted a fortune twice the size of Bill Gates' -- but this greed would not increase my income by one cent." -- Sowell again.
Blogger LYNNDH said...Good Old Michael, he would eat the whole pie.
--
I think he's more a cake (and eat it) type.
Considering the grief his ideology brought to the world, he deserved those boils.
"What a national treasure Michael Moore is. Is the man ever right?"
He was one of the the first to predict that Trump would win the White House.
What disease causes boils for 25 years?
Re the "greed" quotes, Caldwell, one I like is from David Friedman (Milton's more radical son):
"Greedy capitalists make lots of money. Virtuous 'liberals' steal it."
Henry maybe was a chronicler of London's poor but unlike Marx he had no prescription for it
Speaking of carbuncles on the body politic, hello, Michael Moore!
Justice: for Marx to be reincarnated as a boil on Michael Moore's ample ass.
You knew that the super wealthy were out to grab whatever they could
Also the very poor. Also anyone in between the super wealthy and the very poor.
"Intellectuals: From Marx and Tolstoy to Sartre and Chomsky"
LOL! Only Leftists can be 'intellectuals'.
A valid critique of capitalism is acceptable. Like sports, capitalism picks winners and losers. And sometimes the game is rigged (monopolists, government cronies). And sometimes the losers organize themselves and protest and even rebel.
Marx, though, was a loudmouth charlatan stuck on all sorts of bad unworkable ideas, that if employed, lead to poverty, chaos and mass murder.
While idealists were the foot sholdiers of communist revolutions, in every case, power was soon seized by sociopaths. Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the rest gladly orchestrated tge deaths of millions, including the idealists who helped put monsters in power. Mass murder, slave labor, and secret police are the hallmarks of every Marxist government. The ideals of equality contrast heavily with the reality of the powerful living lives far more comfortable than everyone else. Would be Marxists love to talk about the ideals of their beliefs but when confronted with the reality of every communist government ever tried, deflect from the reality by proclaiming true communism has never been tried. Marxists are dangerous fools.
My favorite Marx quote--I am not a Marxist.
The story of The Little Red Hen sums it up for me.
It's also Cinco de Mayo.
Or as our brightest mind said, Cinco de Quatro.
To paraphrase the lefties writing that had Mary Jo Kopechne lived, she would have appreciated all that Ted Kennedy did for the people, we should offer the following:
Had the over 100 Million humans slaughtered in the last 100 years under the murderous marxist ideology and plowed into the ground without a thought or regret by their marxist leaders lived, they would have appreciated the utopia that leftists are always adept at conjuring up theoretically.
Marx was an ass. You know it, I know it, Hell, even Michael Moore knows it.
Capital should be required reading in all high schools.
Batshit crazy, of course but an interesting read and a good anti-Marx book.
I don't see how even the most dedicated Marxist/socialist/communist could read it and still believe afterwards.
The problem is that so few people actually read it.
John Henry
The only difference between American Socialism and European Communism, is the lack of five-year plans.
But it does seem sad that Bill Gates has billions of dollars he will never live to spend, and the fucking Americans in Puerto Rico have to live in the dark without electricity.
So yes, Capitalism is always ugly to the peasants and the people who deal in peasants.
I had a history prof speculate that most those old cranks suffered from dyspepsia. Nietszche was another one.
So much misery rained down due to indigestion.
If Michael Moore idolizes a man who inspired some of the greatest mass murderers in world history (Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot), then I suggest he take his Twitter account and move to North Korea, China, or Cuba and enjoy those Worker Paradises. After all, he would find in those fine Marxist locales that “Some people are more equal than others” and he will find that he will not be one of those who are more equal than others. Heck, if he would the express his displeasure heartily like he does here, he would end up with a long term vacation at a local gulag. The upside to that is he will finally be able to lose that stubborn belly fat through hard labor and a low calorie diet.
Hey rich wealthy Moore- waiting for you to open your homes for the poor.
Marx's problem in a nutshell, and Moore's by extension: It's not what he got right, but what he got wrong.
One word missing from Moore's Tweet: Venezuela.
So yes, Capitalism is always ugly to the peasants and the people who deal in peasants.
Even as their living standards continue to rise.
So Marx and Moore share the self-inflicted grotesque big fat white idiot disease. check.
You must have missed this Michael Moore Tweet in April:
Happy Birthday Adolph. You believed in the right of the worker for a living wage, security for the farmer, and medical care for all. And you saw the evil nature of the super-rich, and the unfair nature of the Versailles treaty. I salute your political activism and your willingness to make a difference!
@Freeman,
What disease causes boils for 25 years?
My guess, based no my medical degree that I found in a box of Cracker-Jacks some years ago, is Staphylococcus aureus.
It's everywhere on human skin, & sometimes even otherwise healthy people just have on-again, off-again skin infections from it. I worked with a guy who suffered from it. Over a period of a few days, out of nowhere, he developed pustules over his shoulders & face.
Nowadays, we have antibiotics to treat outbreaks & showers with soap & running hot water to keep the Staph. A. population on the skin down. Back in Marx's day, they had neither. Having problems with your kidneys or liver (like Marx) can often lead to endemic problems with Staph.
There's a direct line from Marx's "Revolution by any means necessary" "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" and contempt for "bourgeois Morality" - and 100 million dead.
Read his reaction to the Paris Commune.
It wasn't Marx's fault that Lenin, Stalin, Castro, Chavez, etc. didn't implement Communism properly! Plus, Trump lies!
I live about 30 minutes from Trier. Every time I pass by the Karl Marx museum, I note that they charge admission.
Right now I’m sitting with 17k other capitalists at The Woodstock of Capitalism in Omaha. I’m not seeing any angry and unhealthy person like Marx.
Lots of people in Omaha from China. Chinese guy asks why more Americans don’t invest in China. Munger answers and fails to mention lack of democracy and that it is nominally Communist. Odd omission.
People forget the rulers of China are still Communists. I don't know if they are still Marxists.
True story: I asked one of my friends if her Chinese family were Communists and she said replied (sincerly) "No, they aren't rich enough". Seeing my face, she laughed, and said "Seriously, its true." - Which other Chinese friends have confirmed.
Marxism has never been tried.
100 million dead - but the experiment is still incomplete.
Well, if I were a Russian Serf in 1915, I would pretty much try any nutty idea or action that came up to change their plight.
That being said, while Communism DID improve that Russian Peasant Plight (mostly by killing a lot of peasants), when one compares the improvements between a 1915 Russian Peasant and a 1915 American Farmer to their grandchildren between the respective countries in 1989...the difference is STARK.
Honestly, all America needs to do is drop a bunch of single shot zip guns and sticks of dynamite across the farms, towns and cities of North Korea...because the plight of peasants under Communism means they will probably take any wacky idea or action that gets them out of their current plight.
Hmm!
ChiComs aren't communists: they are totalitarians. What she meant is 'are they rich enough to be Party Members'.
Only the Wealthy can be Communists and be 'for the people', just like only People like Hillary Clinton and Mark Zuckerberg are rich enough to be in the People's Party in America...
The best put down of Marx (also quoted by Paul Johnson) came from his mother, who he was always hitting up for money. She reputedly once mused wistfully that she wished Karl would apply himself to amassing some capital rather than just write about it.
In fairness, he was a pretty thorough social scientist who documented in great detail the appalling child and female labour practices, unhealthy working conditions and long working hours of the English industrial revolution. It makes for some pretty grim reading. I often think his detail and indignation did more to explain his influence than his economic "laws" and messianic socialism.
The best put down of Marx (also quoted by Paul Johnson) came from his mother, who he was always hitting up for money. She reputedly once mused wistfully that she wished Karl would apply himself to amassing some capital rather than just write about it.
In fairness, he was a pretty thorough social scientist who documented in great detail the appalling child and female labour practices, unhealthy working conditions and long working hours of the English industrial revolution. It makes for some pretty grim reading. I often think his detail and indignation did more to explain his influence than his economic "laws" and messianic socialism.
I guess all the lefty commenters are at the birthday party.
Someone should make a neighboring statue from human bones.
As Rosanne Rosannadanna was known to say "...you sound like a really attractive guy"
Peter,
Was that i Intellectuals?
I loved that book.
John Henry
Or as our brightest mind said, Cinco de Quatro.
No doubt,as a true Scotsman, he was thinking of the Firth of Forth. Too bad the WH didn't have a Mexican-American Navy Corpsman to school him.
"Well, if I were a Russian Serf in 1915, I would pretty much try any nutty idea or action that came up to change their plight."
There were NO Russian *Serfs* in 1915. And the "Serfs" had nothing to do with the Bolshevik Revolution, except some of them believed the Communist Lies about "Land, Peace, Bread".
There were plenty of other socialist parties in 1917, which wanted to take the Rich landlords land and give it to the peasants. Peeps ALWAYS have trouble remembering that the Bolsheviks didn't overthrow the Czar, they overthrew the Socialist Kerensky.
Evidently Karl Marx was a chick magnet. Not only did he get a aristocratic wife - who followed him to live in relative poverty - but he was boinking the maid too.
Engels was even more attractive to women, and had a string of mistresses, girl friends, lovers, etc.
So Marxism boils down to carbuncles.
YoungHegelian
It certainly showed no MRSE.
Michael,
Nope. All our lefty commenters know less about Marx than my hypothetical goat. They've never read him. He's just a name they wave about.
They are scared shirtless of getting into any kind of substantive discussion about him.
John Henry
You know what is going to “bring us all down”? Greed for power, machlust, and Michael Moore, who complained on 9-11 that the terrorists had hit a city that had voted for Gore, as if they weren’t responding to a missile attack on Afghanistan by Bill Clinton when no state of war existed, and without provocation by the sovereign government of that benighted country, when Gore was Vice President.
Michael Moore has lust for power in spades.
> Not only did he get a aristocratic wife
And he was proud of that, but best of all, he could pawn her inherited family silver.
In fairness, he was a pretty thorough social scientist who documented in great detail the appalling child and female labour practices, unhealthy working conditions and long working hours of the English industrial revolution. It makes for some pretty grim reading.
All problems that capitalism solved quite easily, but that socialism seems to exacerbate.
> It makes for some pretty grim reading.
IIRC, he also "proved" that things were getting worse by quoting the Blue Book statistics in reverse chronological order. Oops. What, you think he got down and dirty and did his own research?
the 4chan Guy who reads Althouse said...
So Marxism boils down to carbuncles.
5/5/18, 3:54 PM
And shit, Laslo. You forgot.
"So Marxism boils down to carbuncles and shit."
It's not a zero sum game moron.
Thank you! The news about Marx suffering from carbuncles really made my day worth living.
I saw a documentary about some town in E. Germany where they had erected a four story bronze bust of Karl Marx. After reunification they wanted to get rid of it, but it was just too massive to move. In the end, they just left it there. That's kind of a metaphor for Marxist thought.
Warren Buffett gave an amazing statement about American capitalism. The average American lives much better today than John D. Rockefeller.
I read that there were some mathematicians who had worked out elaborate formulas to predict the movement of the sun and the heavens as they orbited around the earth. These equations signify the ingenuity and imagination that bright people can bring to wrong ideas.
When I was in college I had to read the Communist Manifesto, so I did. It's not very long, and although it makes no sense, you get the point. I wasn't required to read Das Kapital, but I did try (in English), but it was so awful, so garbled, so incomprehensible, that I couldn't do it. The one thing I can say for it is that not reading it gave me an excuse for not the read Mein Kampf. This has led me to not feeling I have to see Michael Moore movies. Or read Krugman columns.
There's no doubt that working people in 19th century England lived in abysmal conditions. There's also no doubt that a communist revolution would not have improved their lives one bit........All those severed heads during the French Revolution didn't put a slice of cake on anyone's plate. The suffering of the French and Russian Revolutions did not serve to relieve the burdens of the oppressed. They weren't even in recompense for those sufferings. They were just an addition to previous pain and suffering.
Karl Marx always had more appeal in the academy than on the assembly line. It was never a working class movement. It's appeal was mostly to disaffected intellectuals. Capitalism produces a lot of resentment, but the most resentful aren't necessarily the downtrodden. Michael. Moore looks like he's got a lot to gripe about, but I doubt if the inequitable distribution of wealth under capitalism is what's truly eating him. He has taken Marie Antoinette 's advice and what's eating him is what he has eaten.
Engels, by the way, was a wealthy capitalist, which enabled Marx not to have to work at all--thus becoming one of the "vanguard intelligentsia leading the working classes" that we used to hear so much about from Marxists, until they dropped the working class for identity politics of the most Hillary-esque sort.
Marx loved socialism because he got someone else to pay his bills.
My niece is the same way. She thinks socialism is great. She also writes letters for funding her travels.
Marx made predictions of where history was going. We can check them. How come no one does?
But it does seem sad that Bill Gates has billions of dollars he will never live to spend, and the fucking Americans in Puerto Rico have to live in the dark without electricity.
Why don’t they have electricity?
Why did FEMA have to go in with help with guns drawn in a raid where the equipment was stashed?
Blame the PR government as to why their citizens didn’t have electricity.
Puerto Ricans ARE NOT Americans because they HAVE NOT VOTED to become a state.
They keep CHOOSING (VOTING) to stay a territory.
5/5/18, 5:38 PM
John Lynch:
"Marx made predictions of where history was going. We can check them. How come no one does?"
I think the old line was, Proof of Marx's farsightedness is that none of his predictions have come true yet.
A nonsequitor as John Henry has pointed out the state utility took over functioning concerns and have seriously mismanaged the operation.
I wonder which mansion Moore wrote his tweet from.
I read a biography of Marx a few years ago. I was struck with how he was never able really to earn a living, but he kept fathering more children, leaving them and his wife in constant financial anxiety. I'm fuzzy on the details now, but I think eventually Lenin got money from his capitalist father and bailed his friend Marx out. It was all pretty ironic. Marx also seemed mad that society didn't just magically support him financially.
That Friedrich Engel, lemon was an atty, like Fidel but he didn't practices he,was also chuvash, not a full blooded russia.
Warren Buffett gave an amazing statement about American capitalism. The average American lives much better today than John D. Rockefeller.
Of course Rockefeller is dead..
Does anyone know whether Moore understands that, “come the revolution,” he’d be one of the first stood up against the wall and shot?
"Then again, I thought the New Left had died off until Mr Obama came along."
A non-sequitur.
"Seeing the worker slaves suffering and enduring to enrich the wealthy is called Marxism."
Uh, no...that's capitalism.
"But it does seem sad that Bill Gates has billions of dollars he will never live to spend, and the fucking Americans in Puerto Rico have to live in the dark without electricity.
"So yes, Capitalism is always ugly to the peasants and the people who deal in peasants."
Which is to say: Most of us.
Cookie...Marx was the one drawing attention to the suffering worker slaves, i.e describing it is Marxism, Which is why Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath describing it in the 1930s got him branded a Marxist and then a suspected Communist. But Steinbeck was a realist who wrote about what men were made of: both good and evil.
One doesn't have to be a Marxist to see the dynamic of capitalism you describe as "worker slaves suffering to enrich the wealthy."
What do you want cookie?
What is your minimum that would be acceptable.
That includes salary house size how many cars, persona” property, etc.
Is there a travel allowance?
Free airline tickets?
BTW, the Puerto Rican voters voted for their government.
marked-up Marx souvenirs....
Heh
"But it does seem sad that Bill Gates has billions of dollars he will never live to spend, and the fucking Americans in Puerto Rico have to live in the dark without electricity.
If we "give" Puerto Rico a brand new, modern, fully hooked up, efficient, electrical grid.....it'll be fucked up again and bankrupt in five years.
The problem isn't wealth it's corruption.
Michael Moore has taken more than his share of the seats around the table and has clearly been stuffing his face with more than his share of the pie. Fugly hypocrite.
Robert Cook: "One doesn't have to be a Marxist..."
LOL
Gee, if only Cookies marxist heroes could have murdered 200 million instead of just 100 million the revolution might have succeeded.
Hydradenitis Suppuritiva
He didnt embellish life was wretched enougb:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2010/oct/16/rereading-henry-mayhew-london-poor
"Is the man ever right?" Oh, yeah. He was maybe the only prominent liberal who thought Donald Trump would win.
Gahrie asserts: If we "give" Puerto Rico a brand new, modern, fully hooked up, efficient, electrical grid.....it'll be fucked up again and bankrupt in five years.
The problem isn't wealth it's corruption.
Corruption and technical incompetence.
I have been wondering: Given all the black studies and gender studies departments at America's universities, teaching classes like White Oppression, and Marxist Justice, why aren't conservatives pushing for universities to offer classes in History of Communist Oppression? These should be offered as alternative courses for requirements that currently make you take ethnic diversity nonsense, and the new course would need to be offered by the (one or two) professors there who believe that Communism was responsible for the death of a hundred million people last century.
I think those current requirements are bad, but as long as they're around this course should be an alternative.
Late to the party here yet, hopefully, one or more will follow lead to mostest, bestest Paul Johnson book: Modern Times;
https://smile.amazon.com/Modern-Times-Revised-Twenties-Perennial/dp/0060935502/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1525571444&sr=1-1&keywords=paul+johnson+a+history+of+the+modern+world
Looks like Robert got back from the celebration.
”The problem isn't wealth it's corruption.”
It’s also stupidity.
The interesting thing is Johnson started out on the new statesman the closest thing to Pravda then again muggeridge started on the left as did Robert conquest.
Matt taibbi did as well no matter how many times he sticks voodoo pins in trump, he's got one thing right.
The joke about socialism mentioned in the alienist, ' in capitalism man exploits man, in socialism it's the reverse'
Now Christianity is not equality by coercion but by individual action
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/groucho_marx_146422
Hey, Google Michael Moore Torch Lake House. Wife got it in divorce. Mansion among the EXCLUSIVE super rich. He's mile wide and raindrop deep.
mikey moore: didn't he have a problem with paying his workers?
When will there be a 2 ton erection in Moore's name?
Blogger Seeing Red said...
But it does seem sad that Bill Gates has billions of dollars he will never live to spend, and the fucking Americans in Puerto Rico have to live in the dark without electricity.
Actually Bill Gate's plan is to die poor. Buffett too. They are both working very hard to give all their money away. One of the things Gates is doing is is working on a vaccine for malaria. EVERYBODY has said it was impossible. The science on that was even more settled than the science on climate change is supposed to be.
He called bullshit, got together the smartest people he could find, told them money was no object. Now they have a vaccine for malaria. Still in limited use as they continue to test but looks very promising.
And how do you know he is not giving money to Puerto Rico? He has actually given quite a bit over the years.
Why don’t they have electricity?
Now I could write a book on that. Have written a blog on it in fact. Lots of info at darkislandpr.blogspot.com with links, pictures, opinions and more.
I was trained in nuclear and conventional energy (marine) in the Navy. I've lived in Puerto Rico since 1971.
When I was at Alcon I was responsible for energy usage and developed a cogeneration plant (A/K/A CHP or micronetwork) I had a lot of interaction with PREPA (PR Electric Power Authority)
I've not worked with energy directly since 85 but have continued my interest in it.
So, to answer your question:
1) A corrupt and inefficient utility. Owned by the govt and run primarily for the benefit of politicians. No maintenance for 30-40 years. See for example the survey report by a NY consultant on the state of the Palo Seco generating plant (discussed and linked at Darkislandpr) PREPA claims the plant is fully operational but there are whole sections where people are forbidden to walk for fear of imminent collapse.
One of the comments of the crews trying to repair transmission lines was that the right of ways were "indistinguishable from the surrounding jungle"
I could go on and will be happy to if you like. Read Darkislandpr first because I have already vented quite a bit there.
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2) We are an island which complicated the the logistics effort. Along with relief workers, they had to bring in food for them as well as barracks barges and other temporary living quarters. The port and airport were totally closed for 4-5 days after Maria. Took a month to get fully operational again.
3) Hurricane Irma followed by huricane Maria. I don't think most people understand the impact. It came ashore in Yabucoa at 155 mph. That is the dividing line between cat 4 and cat 5. I just ran across a PBS Frontline documentary that ran this week. You can watch it at the PBS site. I saw the first 10-15 minutes Thursday and plan to watch the rest when I get a chance.
My wife and I rode it out in our house. We are 1/4 mile from the ocean, 120' up. no other houses, hills or anything for half a mile or so. We caught the full brunt, Probably 150mph both directions as the eye passed right over us.
My house is reinforced concrete with poured concrete roof. Everything was shaking and rattling the whole time but at one point the house actually started harmonically vibrating for about 10 seconds. A big patch of plaster came down in the basement. Probably from the vibration. It scared the shit out of me because I worried about the structural integrity of the house. Fortunately, other than that, no structural damage to the house.
4) The extent of damage to the electrical system. Over 50,000 poles were down, most broken off. Very few reusable. What do you think the total US inventory of power poles is at any given moment? (Plus Houston and Florida needed poles too) Thousands of miles of transmission, distribution cable had to be replaced. Not rehung, replaced. In addition to what could be salvaged. Transmissions, substations and so on.
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5) Our govt firing Whitefish. They were here within days of Maria. Within a week, they were flying Antonovs with crews, bucket trucks, helocopters and materials. (I could see them come into Roosey from my house). The mayor of SJ started yammering and the governor cancelled the contract (we still don't know how much that cost in penalties) even though, as he said, it would add 8-10 weeks to the blackout. He did it to avoid political distraction.
You want more? Again, see the blog, plenty more there. But I can talk about it till the cows come home. I am still pretty pissed at the govt.
Why did FEMA have to go in with help with guns drawn in a raid where the equipment was stashed?
Sounds like you are reading the Intercept. That is fake news. See https://www.elnuevodia.com/english/english/nota/prepawarehouse5wasnosecret-2390311/
If you read Spanish, El Nueva Dia newspaper had quite a bit on this fake story.
Blame the PR government as to why their citizens didn’t have electricity.
Yup. That's who I would blame for the extended nature of the outage. No maintenance before, allowing PREPA to become derelict, using it as a cookie jar for political purposes. Theft and corruption within PREPA.
But I don't think it would matter how well run PREPA had been, how prepared or how they acted afterward. We still would have been without light for a month or two just because of the force and extent of the storm.
More money might help some but there is a limit to how much money can be thrown at the problem.
Puerto Ricans ARE NOT Americans because they HAVE NOT VOTED to become a state.
Define "American" in this context? If you mean culturaly, yup, I agree.
If you mean legally, you are all wrong. The political entity "The United States" is clearly defined in various places in the CFR. In all of those places PR is specifically included (with Guam, USVI, Marianas) in the definition.
A person born in PR, since about 1942, has exactly the same citizenship status as a person born in Wisconsin, Texas, CA or wherever. (Between 1917 and 1942 it is a bit hazy though for practical purposes it is the same)
They keep CHOOSING (VOTING) to stay a territory.
Yes we do. And for much the same thinking that people in Baltimore, Detroit, Newark and other shithole cities keep electing democrats. You really don't want to get me started on this, do you?
John Henry
Blogger Gahrie said...
If we "give" Puerto Rico a brand new, modern, fully hooked up, efficient, electrical grid.....it'll be fucked up again and bankrupt in five years.
The problem isn't wealth it's corruption.
You are absolutely, 100% correct.
Please, those of you up in the upper 50, DO NOT fund rebuilding PREPA. The ONLY solution is to tear it down and let private companies rebuild it.
This is being planned right now but whether it will come to pass is uncertain.
(More at DarklislandPr)
John Henry
Anybody want to guess how many sitting presidents have come to Puerto Rico?
Well, Gerald Ford flew into San Juan, attended some conference at the Dorado Beach resort and flew out again. Didn't even meet with the governor. Didn't even advise the gov he was coming.
Do you think Clinton flew in after Georges in '98?
Bush after Hugo in in 89?
Anyone?
President Trump came down about two weeks after Maria. First Presidential visit pretty much ever.
If he expected any gratitude, forget it. Our governor is spending our money organizing Puerto Ricans in Florida to vote Democrat.
I certainly didn't expect anything else. but his spending money that could be used for hurricane relief really pisses me off.
A little tip for those of you who want Gates to give him money.
John Henry
Blogger narciso said...
A nonsequitor as John Henry has pointed out the state utility took over functioning concerns and have seriously mismanaged the operation.
It has been state owned pretty much since forever. You can find a history of electric power in Puerto Rico linked here:
http://darkislandpr.blogspot.com/2018/03/a-brief-history-of-prepa.html
John Henry
I wonder just what Marx would have had to say about multi-millionaire Michael Moore.
I was just summarizing till you came along to elaborate, the reporting in central Florida makes the two minute hate look subtle.
If he expected any gratitude, forget it. Our governor is spending our money organizing Puerto Ricans in Florida to vote Democrat.
This is bad strategy. If both sides of the aisle think Puerto Ricans will vote Democrat no matter what, the Republicans will ignore them and the Democrats will take them for granted (and ignore them). That's pretty much where black people are today.
Only Americans can still really believe in Communism because they've never had to suffer from it. Although the folks out in San Franfilthsco are getting a little taste of it.
Today's kids are open to socialism
They were raised as Center of the Universe
and know the economy nearly collapsed in 2008
but for the heroic spending in Congress
And why do they have to pay back loans anyway?
That Che' shirt is sure cool
"But it does seem sad that Bill Gates has billions of dollars he will never live to spend, and the fucking Americans in Puerto Rico have to live in the dark without electricity."
Which is not Bill Gates fault. How much wealth Bill Gates has is immaterial. It is what Puerto Rico does with the money it is given to maintain their electrical infrastructure that is material.
You make the economic fallacy that because someone is worth a lot of money that they have access to that amount in cash.
Rusty refers to this a the "Scrooge McDuck" fallacy.This is the fallacy the assumes that rich people are so rich they have a room in thier mansion filled with cash and gold coins that they like to roll around in. You have no more claim to Bill Gates millions than I have to your money. IOW none.
Marx's manifesto, once read, can be dismissed. Just like Ted Kasinskis manifesto.
John Henry, thank you for sharing your perspective. Most of us have never been to Puerto Rico, much less lived there, so it's enlightening to hear from one who does.
PS: Sounds like you should be governor. ;-)
Thanks John.
When Canada had those issues from the ice storm they were down was it 2-3 weeks too and Americans donated and volunteered and it was easier to help location location location.
Our grid is also vulnerable, we’ve just been lucky.
And in that case, Bill Gates’ billions are a blip.
Poles needed and generators.
I think PR would be a wonderful test case for solar in some instances and attaching to the grid, selling power, etc. You have an opportunity to be futuristic. Not all solar, but a mix.
We have friends on Cayman and when they were hit 12ish? Years ago, Cayman took an opportunity to modernize.
I guess because I’m getting older because I C possibilities. After traveling around the US, the Chicago fire was devastating and probably one of the best things that happened to it because of the opportunity it gave.
Seeing Red said....".... think PR would be a wonderful test case for solar in some instances and attaching to the grid....?" BTW, have you read "John Henry's" first person recounting of the Hurricane? Solar is nice when you are away from the grid and by yourself. Even then Solar has very limited applications. Solar in PR would be wiped out during the next hurricane. Why would you build a "Grid" of Solar, no matter how small, given its location to hurricane alley?
...and the fucking Americans in Puerto Rico have to live in the dark without electricity.
Puerto Rico was already bankrupt when the first raindrop fell as a result of poor choices by the electorate. It would be a bad precedent for Congress (or Bill Gates, for that matter), to rush in and pour money into what is, in essence, the American version of Greece.
Amen, bob. Amen
John Henry
Moore ate all the pie. Stuff all left.
Seeing Red,
Solar if great for a few, very site and use specific, applications. Other than that, it is mostly a scam. I discuss why in a fair amount of detail at Darkislandpr.blogspot.com
Here are a few reasons:
1) Space - A 1MW effective (5MW nominal) photovoltaic (PV) solar installation takes up about 5 acres. By way of comparison, a 5MW diesel plant will fit on the back of a truck and can provide full power 24/7/365. The engines of 2 typical over the road truck is about 1 MW. The picture at this link shows AES 454MW coal plant in Guayama and they have a 27MW nominal (5MW effective) solar plant on the same site. You can get a feel for the power density of the two.
http://darkislandpr.blogspot.com/2018/01/comments-on-pr-microgrid-regulations.html
2) Cost - Solar in PR sells for 18 cents/KWH. The Ecoelectrica LNG powered CHP gas turbines sell power at 9-12 Cents. AES Coal plant is in the same range. We can't afford solar. (Links to contract details at the DI blog) Wind energy is also about 18c/kwh.
3) Fragility - Although a lot of instalations survived, a number didn't. There are pictures at DI blog.
4) reliability - Solar panels only generate electricity about 6 hours per day. Weather permitting, of course. We get lots of cloudy days here.
5) Stability - A typical fossil plant has a predictable output. A solar plant does not. Therefore, the utility has to maintain (expensive) rolling backup such as an unloaded gas or steam turbine ready to take up the slack when the sun goes behind a cloud.
6) Other stuff but those are some of my main objections. More at the blog with more detail.
Most of the comments about solar apply to wind also. Wind is even more problematic for these ans other reasons.
I'll be happy to discuss it further but this may not be the right venue. I've created an open thread at DI Blog. I invite questions, comments answers whatever.
http://darkislandpr.blogspot.com/2018/05/open-thread.html
John Henry
And to get back to the original point, about Bill Gates spending his money here: So far, just to get the system up and running the US Govt has spent around $15 billion. That is just on the electric system. They have spent a shitload of money on other relief efforts here. 10,000 troops, with trucks and other equipment, running around distributing water and food, rebuilding roads and bridges and much more.
Also 300+ fuel delivery trucks from Foster Fuels in Virginia and Macron(?) from Louisiana.
We still have 100,000 families without electric power.
We also, as of this afternoon, have hundreds of generators 50-1,000KW, sitting on pier 4 in San Juan. I have written about these generators before and made a point to look as we drove by this afternoon.
So suppose Bill Gates donated $500mm for emergency generators. Instead of 100-150 sitting on the pier, we would have 200-250 sitting on the pier.
The Gennys, as I understand it, are under the control of the US Army Corps of Engineers.
I don't understand why these can't be taken to dark neighborhoods and a single outlet extension cord run to each house. That would power a refrigerator or some lights or a phone charger or ? It would not give anyone full power but it would least do something. But these generators have been sitting on the pier since November (when I first noticed them) or earlier. Pictures ar the blog.
John Henry
"All Marx gives the worker slaves is another more evil empire ruling over their suffering with a Secret Police torturing and murderimg them."
Thread winner.
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