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९९ टिप्पण्या:
It's not the place of the Pope to judge homosexuals either positively or negatively. That is the exclusive province of God.
On a related note if this idiot isn't removed as Pope the Catholic Church will be dead in a generation. The conservatives will leave and the idiot will discover that leftists will not be replacing them no matter how many long-standing Catholic teachings he ignores, subverts, or casts onto the ash heap.
Ruh-Roh!
Pope Francis seems to be buying into the idea that all gay people - every single one - is “made” that way. I’m not sure that he’s infallible on that point.
Our Pope has less and less authority and on this opinion, none at all. He is trumped by the apostle Paul.
I bet that a correction will be issued saying it’s OK to be gay, just don’t have sex.
Holy moly, cue up the Pope outrage.
Does God decide if they're tops or bottoms?
Did he have anything to say about the Church's views regarding marriage between two members of the same sex?
Maybe just try to be a good person.
The pope loves you like this. You have to be happy with who you are.
"And they called it... Popey Love."
"Maybe just try to be a good person."
Better to be best.
It is alright to be Gay. And he should let the priests marry while he's at it: : I niw bequeath you husband and wife. You may kiss Father Bruce Father Lawrence.
i know i'm getting redundant; but didn't the Catholics used be Christians?
His holiness added: “But I don’t want to be the up-the-butt Pope, because I mean…The Church doesn’t marry up-the-butt priests or even priests for that matter. Whoever heard of Father Up-The-Butt? No, no, no. I can’t. I want children of God and a bigger flock and I just can’t handle this right now.”
His sentiment is in the right place, but this Pope is one silly dude.
Maybe, he should emphasize that it's important to treat gays with dignity and respect, rather than spout off this nonsense.
No more left-wing Popes from South America. If given enough time, he will force us to start wearing underwear over our clothes. (See Allen, Woody in Bananas).
Maybe hearing him say it, the DNC-Media can get the hell off of Christians' backs about gays. We never said "God hates fags." That was the wacko dude from Kansas. God loves us. There's some things we do He hates but He doesn't stop loving His children. Duh!
“i know i'm getting redundant; but didn't the Catholics used be Christians?”
In Europe, Catholics are turning the other cheek for Muslims. They want to be humiliated and defeated.
Roman Catholic doctrine holds that everyone with the exception of Jesus and his mother is born with an inherently sinful nature, thus the Sacrament of Baptism. Nor does the Church teach that people are created by God in a state of perfection. The Hebrew Scriptures are hostile to that notion as well. In short, "born that way" is no excuse.
I couldn't say what Bergoglio is up to, but it's not Catholicism.
This is not a news story, this is a narrative.
"Juan Carlos Cruz (L) in Rome Cruz claims that his suffering was ignored by a number of Latin American bishops who used his homosexuality to brand him a liar when he spoke out. Speaking to Spanish newspaper El País, Cruz said: 'He [the Pope] told me, ‘Juan Carlos, that you are gay does not matter.'"
In that context, "“God made you like this and loves you like this and I don’t care. The pope loves you like this. You have to be happy with who you are.”
Followed by: "The Catholic Church teaches that gay sex – and all sex outside of heterosexual marriage – is a sin."
The Pope distinguishes between being attracted to your own sex and actually having sex; this is not a worldly view.
Being gay is not a sin. Having homosexual sex is.
Love the sinner, hate the sin.
"The Catholic Church teaches that gay sex – and all sex outside of heterosexual marriage – is a sin."
The Pope distinguishes between being attracted to your own sex and actually having sex; this is not a worldly view.
Exactly. Let zhe who is without sin cast the first stone.
chickelit,
Which ones?
Are they turning?
Funny how the party of nuance and hypersensitivity always has to lie about what Christians "believe" to other-ize us, to smear us (and religion in general) just because we don't vote for the Donkey party like we used to.
So human agency plays no part -- it's all God's will. Good to know in case I'm ever tempted to take responsibility for my own actions.
>>Let zhe who is without sin cast the first stone.
Thread winner! Well done.
It's actually a good tell that this Pope is a leftist.
We have a genuine marriage and demographic crisis in American (Pop. 330 Million), where 40% of kids are born to unmarried women.
Who do you think is more "privileged" -- the child born to an unmarried woman or the child born to a stable married couple?
Nothing against unmarried mothers, but both common sense and the data suggests that the quickest way to poverty is to be born to an unmarried woman, and raised without a father.
You can waive rainbow flags all day long, and diligently follow Caitlin Jenner on Twitter to ensure no Anti-LGBTGHFS comments are ever made. That's nice.
But you raise a generation of kids without fathers, without stable marriages, ooh boy, you're gonna have serious crime/poverty problems when these kids grow up.
I don't understand why we have to keep having this discussion as if it's the first time.
If the pope means God loves all of His imperfect creations even though we all sin and fall short of the glory of God, then he is correct.
If the pope means homosex is ok with God, he is wrong and outside the doctrine of Christianity.
It's pretty simple.
Thank you Dan the Man.
Does the philosophy refer to the 20th century label: "gay", or to the specific trait: "homosexual", to the act of the same name, or to generic transgender physical and mental traits?
That's my first nomination for Thread Winner, as far as I know.
I don't understand why we have to keep having this discussion as if it's the first time.
We have to keep doing it until we get it right. It's like voting to adopt the EU Constitution.
This Pope is a moron. Maybe a gay one to.
Watching the libtard secular media try to report on the Pope and anything Catholic = lulz.
more triggering
Somerset Maugham likened his homosexuality to like being born with a club foot.
Being gay is not a sin. Having homosexual sex is.
True Gahrie. But awfully limited in scope. Those staements standing there together without context still appear to single out homo sex for sinfulness. But ANY sex outside of heterosexual marriage is condemned in the Word of God. So is gossip. So is false testimony. So is cheating the taxman and cheating the taxpayer. The list goes on and on.
That's why I don't waste any breath using God's word (or the Pope) to condemn others. It's not for me to judge them in that way. I'm instructed to love and accept everyone. There's also some advice about not hanging out with people likely to lead you into temptation that is helpful. But those crazy people who use God as a cudgel and proclaim their "hate" for this or that are really demonstrating how blasphemy works in the world. Falsely proclaiming a condemnation is from God is a form of blasphemy. Sometimes blasphemy is listed on sins that God may NOT forgive, so people ought to be careful throwing the hate language around.
By the way, Inga, did anyone come here to hate on the Pope like you expected?
In the end, the Pope is very pro-Church and proState; he likes to stimulate both.
>>That's my first nomination for Thread Winner, as far as I know.
It was laugh out loud funny.
I agree with the His Holiness that God loves sinners... which is everybody.
I don't think adulterers, wife beaters, and whoremongers are going to get much mileage out of the "He made me that way" defense....
But God only knows.
From reading the article about the Pope, absolutely nothing has changed. Being a homosexual was never a sin--homosexual sex is and that hasn't changed. Others have said it but it bears repeating.
So the Pope has lowered the bar. I assume it's still not okay to be a pedophile because God loves you and made you that way?
Yesterday, everybody who wasn't a Monarchist or a member of a Commonwealth country had an opinion about the wedding.
Today everybody who isn't Roman Catholic will have an opinion about the Pope.
Opinions are fine and everybody has one. But if you are not a member, you're not a member.
He's not an insightful pope.
wwww opined: “Opinions are fine and everybody has one. But if you are not a member, you're not a member.”
I respected Ratzinger. This guy is a joke. He detracts from the faith. Did you know that he has proposed rewording the Lord’s Prayer to remove reference to Free Will?
@wwww: Have you been around long enough to remember Simon? Devout Catholic, he.
He had few kind words for Pope Francis — even fewer kind words for Donald Trump.
"God made you like this" is the only point of contention. Everything else is sensible.
Mistranslated once again. What he actually said is that he's a big Cole Porter fan, and is particularly fond of The Gay Divorce and Anything Goes. Especially "You're the Top."
I've read an awful lot of Church history. A lot of theology. And let me tell you mofos sumthin' -- it may be called the Roman Catholic Church, but the times in church history where Rome was the center of the zeit- (not to mention the Heiliger -)geist for the Catholic Church can be counted on the fingers of one hand of an 85 year old careless woodworker.
If having its shit together was the sine qua non for the survival of the RCC, it would have been gone centuries ago.
Rome is the legal & bureaucratic center of the RCC. That's it. Its inhabitants, including the Pontifex Maximus, are best taken cum grano salis, as the Schoolmen would say. One's salvation, like all politics, is local. The sacraments are local, the people whose lives it is your moral duty to make better are local, & most of all, God's saving grace is between your heart & God, as local as local can possibly be.
Pope Francis:Bible as President Obama:U.S. Constitution.
Practical pistol
Plastic popsicle
Pastoral particle
Sorry, Catholics. The Danneels mafia won.
“Maybe just try to be a good person.”
Vacuity Of The Day. The whole point is whether gay sex makes you a bad person. Leviticus says it does. So does RC dogma.
From reading the article about the Pope, absolutely nothing has changed. Being a homosexual was never a sin--homosexual sex is and that hasn't changed. Others have said it but it bears repeating.
Yes. This pope likes to stay things he knows will be misinterpreted. He gets a bunch of press, and then when you go back and examine closely what he said you realize the whole thing was kind of a head fake.
How did we get this left-wing, junior-varsity Pope in the first place?
Yes, Do cry for me Argentina!
@BAG,
How did we get this left-wing, junior-varsity Pope in the first place?
I think because, throughout his formative & working years, Liberation Theology just sucked the breath out of the intellectual life of the Church in Latin America. If you were for it, well, then you were for this squish-Marxist mishmash of a theology. If you were against it, then, that was your position: you were against it. But, what were you for? That was another story, & it often involved some dry & crusted Manual Thomism.
Think about all the interesting theological currents that popped up after Vatican II. How many of them came or even found a welcoming home in Latin America?
@YH,
Yeah, all good points.
The true political irony though is that if the CIA hadn't caught Che Guevara in Bolivia, and had simply allowed Fidel and Che to communize Latin America, they woulda put Young priest Francis up against a wall to be shot.
The Catholic church pretty much died when they invented the printing press, and then Henry VIII put a fork in it.
This would be important if this was a real Pope. He is in fact the Anti-Pope and a minion of the Dark One.
That is why he is pushing this idiocy.
Good point, Bergoglio. I am sure God also doesn't care if young boys are captured and sexualy defiled by "Fathers" who were made with love needs they cannot get satisfied with women. All is fair in the game of seduction. Making the age of consent 12 makes sense to RBG who doesn't care either.
>He is in fact the Anti-Pope and a minion of the Dark One.
Langford, you need to switch to 14 gauge tin foil. The 24 gauge you're wearing now isn't working.
"The Pope’s words signal a much more open and inclusive approach by the often restrictive faith – a move which will likely upset many conservative Catholics."
These nitwits have no idea what the Pope's words "signal." What a bunch of fecking garbage. They don't even grasp what Catholic doctrine was in the first place regarding homosexuality, much less what the new doctrine they think the Pope is signaling could be.
Nothing has changed whatsoever.
Promiscuous people, pedophiles, necrophiliacs, homosexuals, transvestites, etc., all hardwired by God and okeydokey, right Francis?
Time to call a confab of the cardinals to revise the Bible and the catechism.
If he's “anti-Pope” surely this means there must be a (anti-anti-) Pope reigning in someplace like Avignon, right?
Maybe you mean “anti-Christ”?
We all have a thorn in our side of some sort. Everyone struggles with something. For the people you list, above, they are called to chastity. Not straightness. It's the acting on these desires that's a sin, not the desire itself.
I'm not making this up, and neither is Pope Frank.
From the Catechism, Ch. 2, Section 2, Article 6:
"2358. The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition."
You do not name a new Pope until the old Pope has died.
We have had two Popes before. Avignon for example.
A homosexual cabal forced the resignation of Pope Benedict to replace him with Francis to advance their agenda.
This is just more of the payoff for their service to their Master.
"Have you been around long enough to remember Simon?"
I remember Simon. I know devout Catholics. Yesterday my Uncle and Aunt both went to mass at different times because one needed to say home to watch their daughter who has been having seizures.
It's fine for everyone to have an opinion. But in my POV, a member's opinion is different then a non-member.
"If he's “anti-Pope” surely this means there must be a (anti-anti-) Pope reigning in someplace like Avignon, right?"
The real Pope is imprisoned and kept from speaking out on matters of the faith. He knows he has to be silent. Or he will be silenced. Just as John Paul 1 was silenced. When he was going to speak out about the corruption and sin in the heart of the Vatican.
I'm a cat. The other day I watched one dog go up to another and do it's typical greeting of rear end smellings. Once again I reminded myself that this is the way the dogs are, and when they eat their vomit, or sometimes each others feces, the gorge rising in my throat is my particular reaction to their nature.
I like the dogs, even still (especially since they keep the neighbor's Tom out of the yard), but frankly, I find their behavior disgusting. I can't help it: it's an emotional/visceral reaction. I doubt this reaction was "programmed" into my head by society, because as a cat, can't recall anyone ever talking about it. Or ever talking, for that matter. It's simply my natural cat reaction. Probably something in our cat superiority is a bit different than in low intelligence dogs, and while it's hard to, we all live in my house the slave takes care of, and so we accept the difference.
I don't seek to watch the behavior, and try to ignore it when I see it. I'm not all that interested in their dog behavior. They are what they are, and I’m different. Having been raised around dogs, I don’t feel any "dog phobia" from the behavior, though I don't want them licking me, and they have all their signals wrong. Dogs, listen up! When I twitch my tail that is not wagging my tail, and it means I’m annoyed with you! It does not mean I’m happy to see you, and want to play with you! You will know I want to play with you when I bat you with my paw! And do NOT sniff by asshole, no matter how proudly I display it!
Recently, the slave has been trying to make us get along better, and has penned in the dogs in my favorite hunting area. The dogs keep eating old, rotting cat kill and puking. If I see one more dog eat it's puke, I'm gonna puke myself. The dogs seem to positively delight in expressing their vomit eating nature. I wish the slave had not done this and would stop doing it. I'm not going to change, and It makes me so mad at her, I scratched her the other day when she was petting me.
And the dogs are deeply confused about the order of the universe. They think the slave is a master. What morons.
Regards,
The cat who lives with dogs
P.S. Dogs are nowhere near as contemptible as mice, who all deserve a slow, lingering death for my pleasure.
Good lord. Give it a rest.
God loves us all. We all have proclivities and inclinations and tendencies. He wants us to live the way he wants us to live despite our proclivities. But he loves us even though we sin and he knows we’ll sin.
He wants us to be better. He loves us even when we’re not.
None of this is controversial or new.
“God loves us all. We all have proclivities and inclinations and tendencies. He wants us to live the way he wants us to live despite our proclivities. But he loves us even though we sin and he knows we’ll sin.”
Word. Almost literally.
But if Frank thinks this is going to grow the Catholic brand he’s out of his freakin’ mind. It’s another Iron Law of history that religions don’t grow by becoming more permissive. Well, Mormons maybe. OK, so it’s a Bronze Law of history.
Ok, but is he being more permissive? Or just simply saying “you’re all loved”?
It’s this “I identify as ...” stuff that I just don’t get.
I’m straight, a husband, father, brother, son, lawyer, and 10,000 other things. None of which define me. None of which are my “identity”. I’m soooo much more than any or all of those things. We all are.
I didn’t see the pope as being permissive (though I think a lot of people will portray it that way). He was just showing love. Meeting them where they are.
There’s an old quote, not sure to whom it should be appropriately attributed, that says something like “there are very few people who hate the Catholic Church, but there a lot of people who hate what they think the Catholic Church is.”
The reason to avoid sin is because doing it takes you further from God.
It isn't about hating or loving gay people (or people with any other sexual issue). All people are sinners, and the question is whether the behavior is a sin.
It's about whether living that way, engaging in a particular behavior, brings you closer to what Christians are going for, or whether it leads inevitably to a conflict between bodily desire vs what is right.
The problem with the Catholic Left is that I don't really believe that they believe there is no conflict between bodily desire & Christian teaching. I believe that they know there is a conflict and that is precisely why they urge people to prioritize bodily desire. I think they view the Catholic church as a tool to be used to promote utopia here on Earth. A very Progressive vision.
"Vacuity Of The Day. The whole point is whether gay sex makes you a bad person. Leviticus says it does. So does RC dogma. "
It isn't "whether you're a bad person". It's whether the behavior is a sin.
Sin in the Christian sense. Not in the left wing Progressive secular humanist sense.
It is human nature - fallen human nature - that makes people want to convert "God is love" ("love the sinner, hate the sin") into "you're a bad person".
Furthermore, the specific context for this conversation was not a rebuke for sexual transgression as defined by, well, all the great western religions (which are all in pretty broad agreement, historically until about an hour and a half ago).
The conversation was specifically to address the aftermath of sexual abuse by gay priests.
The goal was healing, not chastisement. That would have been wildly inappropriate, if Lopez did not come in a spirit of rebellion, trying to justify embracing a homosexual lifestyle, as opposed to simply dealing with same sex attraction.
We're also not hearing it from the Pope, we're hearing it from the victim of gay pedophilia. Who may have heard what he wanted to hear, and disregarded or twisted the bits that maybe he wanted to hear.
Even so, the Pope says nothing here that contradicts my understanding of Church teachings. He doesn't encourage the guy to try to marry another man, he doesn't encourage promiscuity, or anything of the sort.
But the libtard secular media hears what they want to hear, time and time again, with this Pope, and run with it.
And it's not like they verified what the Pope said, anyway. They just have it from a single source. Everything else would be checked out, but they can't verify anything, anyway, because the Pope doesn't discuss his private conversations with a member of the flock.
This nonsense is ridiculous.
“By the way, Inga, did anyone come here to hate on the Pope like you expected?”
I expected Pope outrage and we see lots of it here. We also see Pope hate. How dare the Pope love gay people as if they were God’s children, just like the rest of us.
Blogger Gahrie said...Being gay is not a sin. Having homosexual sex is. Love the sinner, hate the sin.
--
Made that way..
Overheard at a Catholic wedding: "I follow the teachings of the Bible to a T. So, I will keep fisting my boyfriend and vice versa until God explicitly forbids it."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisting
However, I don't think the Pope will give his blessing to practice.
deepelemblues- Exclusive province of God? I know a lot of Christians who don't agree with that.
God also created HIV/AIDS. He loves in mysterious ways.
As a life long Lutheran, I tend to take a theologically liberal view. I do not presume to understand God's will and doubt that God has a plan for every one of us.
I don't care any more about the Pope's view than I would any other politician or pastor. They are entitled to think what they will, as am I.
I suspect that a certain percentage of people are born homosexual, but the research has been unconvincing so far. It is not my place to judge others' sexual preferences, as long as they leave children and animals alone.
I don't think that society is threatened by homosexuality or gay marriage. Just don't play the victim because of your race, gender or sexual preferences. That annoys me.
I am also annoyed by stupid people, mostly leftists, who have forsaken logical reasoning and empirical evidence for emotional reasoning and vacuous political slogans.
OK. I feel better getting that off my chest.
"Made that way.."
Whatever one believes about homosexuality, can't we all at least agree that the assertion "The fact that I have this impulse means I must act on those impulses and you must approve of me doing so" is THE number one OMG stupidest argument EVER?
The sheer stupidity of this argument must be why so many people respond by assuming that if it's true for LGBTQ, it will be true for everything else too, and therefore pedophilia or polygamy or bestiality "will be next". (If it were true, why wouldn't it be true for everyone?)
On the 60 Minutes segment last week about the Pope movie, the narrator stated that "this Pope believes in teaching evolution" like that was something new. I know from personal experience that evolution has been taught in some Catholic grade schools for at least 50 years. Others writing here are correct that the Pope's statements about gays are also nothing new. These are typical examples of fake news by the New York Media trying to destroy the Catholic Church. CBS and the New York Times are experts at twisting the truth to further their leftist agenda.
However, I don't think the Pope will give his blessing to practice.
You might be surprised. When I went to Catholic school, decades ago, we were told you can pretty much do whatever you want as long as you're married. The exception was birth control, which is supposed to be bad from a Natural Law perspective. But the anti-birth control stuff was half-hearted - they didn't really expect us not to use birth control, and they taught all the nuts and bolts of each method.
And you don't say I love you, with disorder acts of sex. Gay or staight.
It drives me nuts how Americans can not talk about sex.
The Anti-pope, installed by a palace coup, is a Socialist fellow traveler. Of course he’s pulling the plug for society to circle the drain.
"Inga said...
“By the way, Inga, did anyone come here to hate on the Pope like you expected?”
I expected Pope outrage and we see lots of it here. We also see Pope hate. How dare the Pope love gay people as if they were God’s children, just like the rest of us."
Of course we didn't see lots of outrage and certainly not hate. And please show me examples of " How dare the Pope love gay people as if they were God’s children, just like the rest of us."
As usual our resident dullard is just making shit up to fit our retarded narrative.
So homosexual sex is a sin...so what? According to Christians, we're all sinners who sin all the time. They're just...normal.
" Robert Cook said...
So homosexual sex is a sin...so what? According to Christians, we're all sinners who sin all the time. They're just...normal."
An apple is red. A fire engine is red. Do you think an apple is a fire engine?
>>Do you think an apple is a fire engine?
Only if it weighs the same as a duck.
The development of antibiotics changed everything.
During the Great War both sides had huge casualty rates of men with sexually transmitted diseases. More so than frostbite and blast wounds.
The Armies had to spend millions on educating men not to have sex with each other or to use the prostitutes that hung around the camps.
All this was common knowledge in the Bible. The Bible added a little drama to it, but it was pretty basic logic about where not to put your penis.
Now that antibiotics are failing, we will again have millions of people having their penis fall off, and the Pope is saying: "tough shit".
Maybe the Pope was referring to the Priest, not the victim.....
"An apple is red. A fire engine is red. Do you think an apple is a fire engine?"
No, but they're both red, which is the pertinent matter here.
Robert Cook said...
So homosexual sex is a sin...so what? According to Christians, we're all sinners who sin all the time. They're just...normal.
It is true that all of us sin all the time. It is a mistake to say that sin, therefore, doesn't matter:
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey — whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
" Robert Cook said...
"An apple is red. A fire engine is red. Do you think an apple is a fire engine?"
No, but they're both red, which is the pertinent matter here."
No, to say they're both sinners is fine. To say they're both "normal" is saying a fire engine and apple are the same because they're red.
It is also correct to say that sexual sin is different from other sins.
But the difference isn't that we have license to be meaner to people when they sin sexually than when they sin in other ways.
"But the difference isn't that we have license to be meaner to people when they sin sexually than when they sin in other ways."
People aren't "meaner" to them. Christians are not the ones throwing gay people off rooftops.
The argument was originally "if there are two sets of moral beliefs, why should it be treated as self-evident that one belief is superior and the other should give way?" Now we're dealing with the same question in reverse: the basis of your claim that people who don't give gays what they want are "mean" is grounded in the idea that, given any contest between two moral beliefs, one belief is superior and the other should give way.
I don't care if you're Christian or if you're gay: if you don't believe there is room in the USA for both groups, YOU are the problem.
But that has always been Catholic doctrine. It doesn't mean that some homosexual behavior is not a sin, just as it is Catholic doctrine that heterosexual behavior, outside of certain rather prescribed bounds, is sinful. Being homosexual is not any more sinful than being heterosexual.
There is absolutely nothing new here. Nothing. What has changed is in our own heads - it used to be commonly accepted that sexual self-restraint was necessary in life, and now we're being told that is not so. So people are hearing a different message from
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