Althouse: "This market decline so far has returned the market roughly to its level in mid-December, less than two months ago."

February 6, 2018

"This market decline so far has returned the market roughly to its level in mid-December, less than two months ago."

"The 7.8 percent drop in the Standard & Poor’s 500 over the last six trading days is similar in scale and speed to drops in January 2016 and August 2015, neither of which left lasting scars, and is short of the 10 percent drop that would qualify as a market correction. But some common cognitive errors are making this sell-off seem more dramatic than it is.... The Dow fell by 1,175 points Monday, which represents a quite large 4.6 percent decline. But while it was the biggest single-day point decline, there were steeper percentage declines on several occasions during the global financial crisis and its aftermath, not to mention the 508- point drop in the Dow in 1987 that represented a 22.6 percent market crash."

From "Context Matters. The Stock Market Drop Is Less Scary Than It Seems/It can be easy to be misled by big point swings after a long period of quiet in global markets," by Neil Irwin in the NYT.

84 comments:

Sebastian said...: P/E ratios were and are high. The market had already priced in the Trump boom and the global recovery. Signs of inflation and increased borrowing spell higher interest rates. Time for a correction. (I only charge a small fee for investment advice -- pay up right here.); 2/6/18, 10:07 AM
rhhardin said...: Fear and greed are two ratings boosters.

Prices [fall/rise] on [pick a random news event]!; 2/6/18, 10:15 AM
Big Mike said...: The market goes up, the market goes down.; 2/6/18, 10:15 AM
tcrosse said...: Lower prices, within limits, are good for those of us who reinvest dividends.; 2/6/18, 10:18 AM
rhhardin said...: In the 50s somebody debunked price analysis methods that detected cycles. Obviously you can make money if you spot a cycle, buy low sell high.

It turned out that linear predictors have a spectrum and they "detect" cycles that match the spectrum built into them unknowingly by the builder.

It's as if the market is unpredictable, in the sense that you can't do better than buy blindly and sell blindly.; 2/6/18, 10:19 AM
rhhardin said...: The market went up for Trump because the information changed. You no longer had to gamble on Hillary losing. It was a sure thing.; 2/6/18, 10:21 AM
rhhardin said...: If you cripple Trump, the information changes again and the market goes down.

That's what the gamble is on now.; 2/6/18, 10:22 AM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: rhhardin said...

In the 50s somebody debunked price analysis methods that detected cycles. Obviously you can make money if you spot a cycle, buy low sell high.

The cycles in stock prices are guaranteed to continue.

Right up until they don't.; 2/6/18, 10:23 AM
rhhardin said...: It's not so much Trump as not-establishment that the market wants. Trump is good at it but anyone would do.; 2/6/18, 10:24 AM
rhhardin said...: If you reduce government regulation, there's less regulatory capture. (Existing companies take over the regulators by way of donations, to stymie new competition.); 2/6/18, 10:26 AM
traditionalguy said...: The MSM's synchronized headline for the day was Stock Market loses year's gains. (Secret Code: that means January 1998's gain).

And a shake out had to come from the Tax cut changing the outlook of the better stocks to own in replacement of old ones. When that analysis was done, then the old stocks must be sold and the new ones are bought when the money comes in and any slide has made a new bottom. The first day of selling the computer sell programs trigger.

And behind it all, the day Hillary lost, the Private Bank we call the FED has raised interest to snuff out any rally. Add behind that, that the Rothchilds are liquidating to avoid what was done to Allaweed.

Enjoy the winning.; 2/6/18, 10:26 AM
Now I Know! said...: This is a good time for Meade and all other supporters of Trump to put all of your savings in the market.; 2/6/18, 10:29 AM
traditionalguy said...: NB: a big element in the dreaded Inflation has gone away for now. You can now afford to buy stocks.; 2/6/18, 10:30 AM
Now I Know! said...: Notice that the markets have now gone south since Trump finally got his budget and fiscal plans in place. History will say the the rise in the stock market last year (and the previous years) was due to the level-headed plans enacted by President Obama. Last year was when market investors cashed in on the waning Obama economy.

Those were the days..; 2/6/18, 10:36 AM
bagoh20 said...: Watch what happens if the Dems win in November. The crash will come before, if it even looks possible.; 2/6/18, 10:42 AM
alan markus said...: NIK said; This is a good time for Meade and all other supporters of Trump to put all of your savings in the market.

In my case, it will be most of my savings. Been waiting for some days like this. As it is, I am down less than 1/2 of a % year to date because my retirement planner advised me to "act my age" and put 30% of my stash into bonds - I was 90% in stocks for most of last year. She is concerned that in the future when RMDs kick in, the up cycles could play havoc with tax rates and Medicare surcharges.

Basically got knocked down to where I was the Friday before Christmas.; 2/6/18, 10:47 AM
rhhardin said...: My 401k managing company reports every year that my portfolio is too conservative, and offer paid investment management.; 2/6/18, 10:48 AM
Jason said...: It’s amazing, the level of economic and stock market ignorance a libtard can pack into just a couple of blog comments.; 2/6/18, 10:51 AM
Jersey Fled said...: Markets go down (or up) and "experts" run around looking for reasons.; 2/6/18, 10:51 AM
rhhardin said...: Bonds are nice but long term bonds are risky, short term bonds are okay.

The risk isn't default but that the interest rates rise, which means that the bond's value falls hugely (by half or more even) if you have to sell it early.

And long term bonds have a heads-we-win tails-you-lose provision that if after 5 years interest rates fall (good for you) they get to redeem the bonds early.; 2/6/18, 10:52 AM
Now I Know! said...: 2/6/18, 10:54 AM
alan markus said...: @ Jason

It’s amazing, the level of economic and stock market ignorance a libtard can pack into just a couple of blog comments.

And to think that McDonalds offers a good 401K match to their employees. But like they say, you can lead horse to water but you can not make him drink.; 2/6/18, 10:59 AM
Kyzer SoSay said...: My 401(k) is still way up since November 2017, and wayyy up compared to November 2016. But I picked stocks and funds with less exposure to these kind of jittery losses. YMMV.; 2/6/18, 11:00 AM
eric said...: We will be back to new a time highs soon enough.

And all those blaming Trump now will be quoted and asked if Trump deserved the blame then, does he get the credit now?; 2/6/18, 11:01 AM
Static Ping said...: It was obvious that this was going to happen. Even when a bull market has a good reason to be a bull market, which I think is the case here, it tends to get too enthusiastic. It will drop down a bit and after the panic has passed it will probably start going back up at a moderate pace.

Apparently it takes one of these sort of drops every few years to bankrupt the dumb investors and restore sanity.; 2/6/18, 11:03 AM
Bay Area Guy said...: If stocks are up, ignore or deny credit to Trump.

If stocks are down, blame Trump.

I see a pattern!; 2/6/18, 11:09 AM
Unknown said...: It was hilarious listening to NPR throughout my morning drive: commentator after commentator intoning, "the biggest drop in stock market history." I think only one mentioned that it was the biggest POINT drop, and even that one couldn't bring himself to mention that the the reason it wasn't also the biggest percentage drop is because the market is yugely higher than it's ever been before (and basic math, which that commentator may not have been capable of, dictates that therefore it takes more units to make a bigger percentage).; 2/6/18, 11:21 AM
William said...: Paul Krugman was spotted in the halls of the NYT turning somersaults. It's wise for those of us who have not won the Nobel Prize for Economics to not get so emotionally involved in the Dow Jones average. The DJ average is a bit of a drama queen, and you shouldn't wed your own moods to is manic swings.; 2/6/18, 11:24 AM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: "Last year was when market investors cashed in on the waning Obama economy."

Exactly right but not quite in the way you meant it.; 2/6/18, 11:26 AM
William said...: I predict that the market will fluctuate. Some people will make money, and some people will lose money. Paul Krugman, however, will always be wrong. That's the one universal constant in financial markets.; 2/6/18, 11:29 AM
mockturtle said...: Yes, with the Dow so high, the point drop looks scary but as a percentage it's not that ominous. What is ominous is the number of leveraged investments. Especially with interest rates likely to rise.; 2/6/18, 11:32 AM
The Godfather said...: I remember back in '87, after that big one-day drop of almost 25%, some TV anchor asked a finance guru "How long can this last?", and the guru said, "At this rate, three more days."

Puts yesterday into perspective.; 2/6/18, 11:35 AM
Howard said...: Hey Zeus, what's the BFD??? First part of the year, overheated market profit taking and bet hedging. If this didn't happen, then there would be something to worry about. Once you understand the angle of repose, then you quit believing the sky is the limit.; 2/6/18, 11:42 AM
Michael said...: Now I Know

What a moronic comment. The market is up over 33% since Trump was elected. Obama was the single most anti business president of our era. His departure was a lift in itself.; 2/6/18, 11:48 AM
The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: Weather is not climate.; 2/6/18, 11:50 AM
rehajm said...: 10 percent corrections are a frequent occurrence. Lefties desperately need economic weakness. They aren’t going to get it.; 2/6/18, 11:54 AM
Achilles said...: Not many really care about the stock market.

The wage growth is the kicker. Notice how the Fed and the Democrats got all pissy when the proles started making more money.; 2/6/18, 11:55 AM
Left Bank of the Charles said...: I think the market is being pulled down by bitcoin, which has dropped from $19,843 to $6,809. $500 billion dollars of crypto currency bullshit has disappeared in the past month. The stock market is down more, $1.6 trillion, but much less in percentage terms.; 2/6/18, 11:55 AM
Achilles said...: I will say again the DOW is 30 cherry picked "blue chip" stocks. It is constantly shuffling who is in and out.

Wages are up. Capital investment is up. Regulations are down. The flow of illegal low cost labor across the border is being squeezed.

All of these things positively affect the working class. Even my wife as an RN is making over 10$ an hour more than she was last year.

The DOW is a dog and pony show.; 2/6/18, 11:59 AM
Jaq said...: The problem is the prole workers getting higher wages! That Friday Jobs report was terrible! Unemployment down, wages up! What’s happened to our country, luuvy!?!; 2/6/18, 12:03 PM
Jaq said...: The market is kind of a giant Bayesian inference engine that nobody fully understands.; 2/6/18, 12:05 PM
Jaq said...: One of my favorite arguments, I am not sure if Now I Know made it, was that it was the “uncertainty” of the election that held markets down until Trump won, and it would have risen even more if Hillary had won.

How much more certain has anybody ever been than people were that Hillary was going to win the election?; 2/6/18, 12:07 PM
David said...: To me the scary part is all the "experts" telling us that this really is not that scary. It's as if they had a script or something. There is no script but the herd script, which disseminates better than a bunch of words from a central authority.

There is safety in the herd in normal times. A few herd members get picked off. The safety is herd safety not individual safety but most of the herd feels safe and keeps grazing.

Then there are the times when the herd goes off the cliff.

It's hard to distinguish the two until you are over the precipice.; 2/6/18, 12:10 PM
David said...: "And long term bonds have a heads-we-win tails-you-lose provision that if after 5 years interest rates fall (good for you) they get to redeem the bonds early."

Not Treasury Bonds, which is one of the reasons they are a popular investment and benchmark.; 2/6/18, 12:14 PM
Meade said...: Now I Know! said...
"This is a good time for Meade and all other supporters of Trump to put all of your savings in the market."

Except for your second use of the word "all," I totally agree. Conversely, this a good time for Now I Know Jay Retread and all other Trump-hating progressive democrat socialists to take aggressive short positions in the market and put their money where their mouths are.; 2/6/18, 12:35 PM
rhhardin said...: Not Treasury Bonds, which is one of the reasons they are a popular investment and benchmark.

They can and do recall treasury bonds. A bunch were issued in the 80s with well over 10% interest rates and they got recalled sometime in the 2000's.

The feature limits the upward value swing possibility in the bond if interest rates fall. So it's a one-sided risk, all on the buyer.; 2/6/18, 12:55 PM
rhhardin said...: The wage growth is the kicker. Notice how the Fed and the Democrats got all pissy when the proles started making more money.

Wages are prices, so it's on its face neither good nor bad. It depends on why the wages rise.; 2/6/18, 12:59 PM
Meade said...: I've been an investor, not a trader. I started to systematically invest in the market when my daughter was born. That was the late 80's. I was in my early 30's. The Dow was around 2000. Today it's over 10 times that.

I could've started investing 10 years earlier and my net worth would be twice what it is today. But Jimmy Carter was president then and in my youthful worldweary cynical rational languor I was dead certain America was going straight to hell in a hand basket.

Bad idea. Cost me a million bucks.; 2/6/18, 1:01 PM
rhhardin said...: Market rule: nobody is going to give you free money.

Save to keep pace with inflation and don't expect anything more.

Remember taxes on that.; 2/6/18, 1:09 PM
wwww said...: There's a non-zero chance the tax cut set into motion a chain of events that will be devastating to profits and great for wages.

twitter Conor Sen; 2/6/18, 1:11 PM
sinz52 said...: I bailed out of the market last year and I don't regret it.

You gotta know when to hold 'em,
know when to fold 'em,
know when to walk away,
and know when to run.; 2/6/18, 1:38 PM
Meade said...: Where did you go when you bailed out? Cash? Gold? Vegas?; 2/6/18, 1:50 PM
Meade said...: Canada?; 2/6/18, 1:50 PM
tcrosse said...: Venezuelan government bonds ?; 2/6/18, 1:57 PM
Robert Cook said...: "Save to keep pace with inflation and don't expect anything more."

Many Americans don't make enough money to save anything, much less to save to keep pace with inflation.; 2/6/18, 2:05 PM
Robert Cook said...: "...I was dead certain America was going straight to hell in a hand basket."

It did! How can you not notice?; 2/6/18, 2:06 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: The media deceptively focus on market "points" drops or gains....instead of the Percentage of gain or loss which is much more relevant. If the Dow Jones is a 7600 (which I remember clearly) a 4% drop is 304. However, 4% of 26000 is 1040. Same thing, but the 1040 points is much more dramatic.

They are trying to frighten the uneducated.

Personally, at this level of market gain (using only the Dow) from October 2002 wit the Dow at 7600 approx. to now at approx 25,000.... seriously a 1000 point drop is not much to worry about. If it continued day after day....probably time to be concerned and wish you had put some strategies in place to protect yourself. Like below.

I would have been advising my clients with large gains (long term gains) to put stop losses on some of their stocks as a measure of caution to protect a portion of their holdings in case there is a precipitous drop. 4.90% IS NOT PRECIPITOUS.

Say you have a holding of CVX (Chevron) that you bought in 1970 1000 shares at 2.88 = $2,880 investment. With stock splitting in 2004 you now have 2000 shares.

At today's price about $114 per share, your value is $228.000. (assuming no reinvestment of dividends into fractional shares which mutual funds can do for you and some companies will allow) An almost 1000% gain.

We, (my client and I) would sit down and discuss
1. How much higher do we think it can go from here. Discussing political and economic conditions.
2. How much risk do you want to take. Are you comfortable with the volatility in the market.
3. Do you have tax concerns if selling some of this would cause issues
4. If you sold the stock, or a portion of it, would you miss the dividends as income?
5. Is there something else that you may want to invest in with more potential growth or less volatility. Something you are planning to buy? Take a cruise. Pay off a mortgage?
6. How much of a dip in the price of this stock are you willing to see. 10%? 20% 5%
7. How quickly would you want to sell?

Depending on the answers to that discussion we would likely put a stop loss order or even a stop limit order for a portion of the holding. The tricky part is how low do you want to go and the danger of selling on a momentary dip during the day.... if your price is too close to current market price you may sell out and then see the price recover and go even higher. The other tricky and dangerous part with a position that is rapidly moving, is carefully watching the price to cancel your stop loss or stop limit or change to a sell limit. Risky.

Much of the trading on the down day we have just seen likely consisted of similar orders and especially in program trading (robo trades) which consists of HUGE blocks of securities of all kinds.

It isn't a disaster. The market dips are normal and generally, an opportunity to buy (judiciously of course); 2/6/18, 2:11 PM
Robert Cook said...: "The problem is the prole workers getting higher wages! That Friday Jobs report was terrible! Unemployment down, wages up! What’s happened to our country, luuvy!?!"

Yes, that is how the wealthy elites look at it.; 2/6/18, 2:14 PM
alan markus said...: Wonder how George Soros is doing lately.

George Soros reportedly lost about $1 billion after Trump's election; 2/6/18, 2:33 PM
rhhardin said...: Many Americans don't make enough money to save anything, much less to save to keep pace with inflation.

If you don't have savings you don't have to worry about inflation.

As for saving, you do it by saving. It's a very handy habit to pick up. Living off less than all of your paycheck.; 2/6/18, 2:36 PM
Robert Cook said...: "As for saving, you do it by saving. It's a very handy habit to pick up. Living off less than all of your paycheck."

Easy to say, and easy to do for some. Less easy for others, and impossible for yet others.

There are working people in this country who do not make enough to meet their basic needs. (Wal-Mart, at one time, and perhaps still today, encouraged their employees to obtain Medicaid and other welfare benefits from their respective state governments, to make up for the low wages Wal-Mart paid. Wal-Mart was encouraging the use of the welfare system to bolster its own profit! They're scumbags in other ways, as well.)

Wal-Mart aside, there are other working people in this country who make less income than can meet their basic needs, and it's not because they're simply choosing to live beyond their means.; 2/6/18, 3:04 PM
Drago said...: Robert Cook: "Wal-Mart aside, there are other working people in this country who make less income than can meet their basic needs, and it's not because they're simply choosing to live beyond their means."

How many poor people did you invite to live in your home comrade?; 2/6/18, 3:12 PM
Drago said...: Market up 567 today.

Noted "Savvy Investors" Inga and ARM hardest hit.; 2/6/18, 3:28 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: I think the best way to judge who is the most beloved commenter is measure how often they are mentioned in threads where they have not commented. Clearly they are deeply missed.; 2/6/18, 3:35 PM
MaxedOutMama said...: Now I Know: Just as soon as you convinced us that this was about the Trump, the markets turned around in the US and started to climb. Before we thought it was about interest rates, and we realized we should sell. But silly deplorables! How COULD WE HAVE DOUBTED.

If it's a referendum on Trump, OF COURSE THE WINNING WILL CONTINUE. Thank you for the investment tip. Because with Trump, all things are possible! And so we bought. And also the three magi from the East took one look at the DAX, and they bought.
Dow Jones/US indices:
https://www.nasdaq.com/markets/indices/major-indices.aspx

For in the last year we have seen many signs and wonders....

Trump struck his desk with his fist, and oil began to flow out of the rocks:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-06/u-s-crude-output-to-jump-above-11m-b-d-sooner-than-expected

Trump smote ISIS with his General Staff, and the debt/GDP ratio notably improved after the prophet's first year in office (we do not know how he did that, because we are assured you can only get one or another) -
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYGFGDQ188S
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEGDQ188S

Lo! The Orange One maketh us to receive higher wages (for the laborer doth deserve his hire):
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=iaAB

He raged in his inaugural address, and cried out against those who abandoned the poor, and Industrial Production began to rise again:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=iaCX

"MAGA!" he quoth, and the dollar did rise against the Euro:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=iaDH

For years the The Fed had been buying trillions of dollars of assets to try to prevent deflation. Trump entered the Oval Office, changed the taupe curtains to gold, picked up the phone and told the Fed "Never mind, I'm on the job now. You may raise interest rates"
They did:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=iaHU

And lo! He dialed it right in on the Fed goal:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=iaEG

The Fed spoke words of sorrow and dejection, doubt, and The Donald snorted into the microphone and said "I'll teach you academic fools a thing or two about how to address declining money velocity." They laughed and pointed, and spake against him, and he said "In his own city the Prophet hath no honor", and lo, (this is the most impressive, btw) by December the Great MAGAcian had stopped the ever-falling money velocity:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=iaHd

Trump raised his pen, and signed The Word of Deregulation, for, he saith, "It is time to get this country moving again, for this secular stagnation must end!" And move we did:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=iaGC

And the Orange One went to Davos, to speak to the world's economic magicians, and he spake words of encouragement, but also strongly hinted that the wages of the workers needed to be raised. And the magicians had fled other prophets who were speaking to listen to the Fat Prophet's words, and they may even have listened to his warnings, because this morning in Germany IG Metall settled with the employer's group in southwest Germany for a 4.3% raise, and this is something of a sorely-needed miracle which will surely lead to higher wages across Germany:
https://www.just-auto.com/news/ig-metall-secures-43-regional-rise-after-bitter-dispute_id181097.aspx

Etc. This perhaps not the game you wish to play? Because I can go on, you know.; 2/6/18, 3:42 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: People here talked a lot about Jeffery Dahmer at one time, ARM.

That didn't mean they loved him.; 2/6/18, 3:43 PM
tcrosse said...: I think the best way to judge who is the most beloved commenter is measure how often they are mentioned in threads where they have not commented.

Except for those who are reviled whether or not they have commented. Althouse discourages this.; 2/6/18, 3:44 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: Ah, it was just yesterday...

Inga said...

Schadenfreude. Trump’s stock market braggadocio can now stick in his craw and in yours, lol.

2/5/18, 3:12 PM

ARM and Inga were having orgasms in that thread, checking the Dow every 5 minutes, visualizing economic collapse.; 2/6/18, 3:45 PM
tcrosse said...: So the market is Obama's going up and Trump's going down. It's dizzying.; 2/6/18, 3:48 PM
exiledonmainstreet, green-eyed devil said...: tcrosse, it is unlikely that we will see Inga in this thread. She will make an appearance the next time the Dow drops suddenly.; 2/6/18, 3:49 PM
Drago said...: exiledonmainstreet: "People here talked a lot about Jeffery Dahmer at one time, ARM."

To paraphrase Babe Ruth, Jeffrey Dahmer had a better year than ARM.; 2/6/18, 3:53 PM
Drago said...: exiled: "ARM and Inga were having orgasms in that thread, checking the Dow every 5 minutes, visualizing economic collapse"

Indeed. They aren't as busy commenting today.

I'm afraid the Dow, at least for now, has achieved "Venezuela Socialist/leftist Economic Miracle" status.; 2/6/18, 3:54 PM
Jim at said...: Blogger Now I Know! said...

2/6/18, 10:54 AM

Most intelligent thing you've ever written on this blog.; 2/6/18, 4:06 PM
Jaq said...: Trump’s a piker, the DJIA is only up a thousand points in the last two months! Sleeping on the job!; 2/6/18, 4:09 PM
Meade said...: @Jim at.

LOL; 2/6/18, 4:19 PM
Bad Lieutenant said...: ALillianHellMan said...
I think the best way to judge who is the most beloved commenter is measure how often they are mentioned in threads where they have not commented. Clearly they are deeply missed.
2/6/18, 3:35 PM

How can we miss you if you won't go away?; 2/6/18, 4:43 PM
Michael said...: Odd that those lefties crowing about yesterday's decline are today absent. Silent. Do you think they might be reflecting on their stupidity, their moronic linking of their hatred for Trump and the DOW performance, their sincere belief that the market was reflecting angst about the RussiaRussiaRussia "investigations?" If you do you would be wrong. They are disappointed but not enlightened. Sad.; 2/6/18, 4:47 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: Michael said...
Odd that those lefties crowing about yesterday's decline are today absent. Silent. Do you think they might be reflecting on their stupidity, their moronic linking of their hatred for Trump and the DOW performance, their sincere belief that the market was reflecting angst about the RussiaRussiaRussia "investigations?" If you do you would be wrong. They are disappointed but not enlightened. Sad.

The saddest thing here is the stupidity of this post. I explicitly stated that I did not think the decline in the stock market had anything to do with Trump, just to deal with idiots like you. You must have the reading comprehension of a baboon.; 2/6/18, 4:59 PM
tcrosse said...: For the record, yesterday ARM was quite level-headed and realistic about the market correction. Others weren't.; 2/6/18, 5:07 PM
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...: From yesterday:

Widely Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
For the record, I don't blame Trump for this stock sell-off, any more than I blame him for the run-up.; 2/6/18, 5:07 PM
Meade said...: Robert Cook said...
"The problem is the prole workers getting higher wages! That Friday Jobs report was terrible! Unemployment down, wages up! What’s happened to our country, luuvy!?!"

Yes, that is how the wealthy elites look at it.
---------------------------------------------
I'm pretty sure Tim in Vermont was being ironic, Robert.

What sets apart Donald Trump from the Democrat and Republican wealthy elite is he doesn't want Congress to flood the labor market with cheap labor immigrants. Trump wants higher wages and rising employment for American workers — something Democrats (and some Republicans) used to at least claim to have wanted.; 2/6/18, 5:19 PM
The Godfather said...: Well, I don't usually agree with ARM, but I agree with him that yesterday's decline in the Dow wasn't Trump's fault. I would even go so far to say (which ARM hasn't yet) that today's (partial) recovery can't be attributed to Trump, either. These short-term swings in the stock market are due to a lot of things, and us regular folks don't understand what they are. If we're smart and depend enough on the market to make it worthwhile, we rely on pros to follow things.

BUT . . . and this really is what we need to remember . . . our national wealth and our personal wealth and even our personal economic survival depend on the productivity of our economy. If you tell the producers in the economy that "you didn't build that", or "at some point, you (the plumber) have made enough", they will act one way. If you tell them, "Go make it!", they will act another way.; 2/6/18, 5:34 PM
Michael said...: ARM

Don't see I referred to you Mr reading comprehension. Moron.; 2/6/18, 8:26 PM
Robert Cook said...: "I'm pretty sure Tim in Vermont was being ironic, Robert."

Oh, I agree. But I'm not being ironic.

"What sets apart Donald Trump from the Democrat and Republican wealthy elite is he doesn't want Congress to flood the labor market with cheap labor immigrants. Trump wants higher wages and rising employment for American workers — something Democrats (and some Republicans) used to at least claim to have wanted."

Do you really believe Trump cares in the least about the nationality or ethnicity of the minions serving him his Big Macs on tacky, over-designed gold platters? I don't think Trump is a Snidely Whiplash, chortling and rubbing his hands over the misery and impoverishment of the lower classes, I just think he is oblivious and indifferent to anyone not in his social set. He's a salesman, and I'm sure he can be genuinely charming one-on-one with anyone, and perhaps he's being genuine in those one-on-one moments, but I don't believe he gives a second's thought to the plight of working (or non-working) Americans in any circumstance where he doesn't have to make a public appearance before his base or issue a pandering statement for publication.; 2/7/18, 7:20 AM