February 20, 2018
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118 comments:
It's a shame nothing will get done.
Survivors should be allowed to vent however they need. But we should be adult enough to recognize that they are venting. The problem is a media eager to exploit these kids not because they think they bring special insight, but because they think these kids can't be criticized. They are the human shields of domestic politics.
Media.Exploiting children since forever.
BCARM: What do you think SHOULD be done?
The world didn't collapse when we had a Federal Assault Weapons Ban.
We still do, as we have had since 1935.
Staging school shootings using a real shooter are beyond the News Media's pay grade. That takes the CIA resources to prepare for it, the FBI to enable it, and the Media to loose the tsunami of propaganda demanding the confiscation of Deplorable American's guns.
Psychotropic drugs, social dysfunction, debased human life (selective-child, [color] diversity, female chauvinism), and low opportunity cost, are a recipe to open an abortion field. The tell-tales hearts beat ever louder.
I edited ARM's post to make it a little more accurate:
"The world didn't collapse when we had a (fake) Federal Assault Weapons Ban."
How about we blame Obama?
Looks like the benefits of his educational policies regarding the disparate disciplinary rates between races came to fruition:
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/02/did_the_progressive_broward_county_solution_cost_17_student_lives.html
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
The world didn't collapse when we had a Federal Assault Weapons Ban.
ARM thinks that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part...
Blogger Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
It's a shame nothing will get done.
2/20/18, 7:37 AM
_____________________________________________________
You are hereby deputized to go door-to-door and force the inhabitants to
surrender all firearms.
Something done..end shame.
Wonder if BCARM knows what an assault weapon is?
There is armed security at airports, stadiums, studios, banks, Capitol Hill, clinics, 1% estates, etc., but not in schools, and leftists amplify the risk by denying the right of self-defense and identifying low opportunity cost zones.
Lowering the voting age to 8 would solve it.
Progs don't do "shame." Sorry.
I am all for "doing something" starting with a test case of following existing law in the city of Chicago. Enforce the existing tough racist gun laws in Chicago and see where that gets us.
I was traveling through O'hare Airport last night. Catching passing glances at the TV monitors while walking to my gate one would be forgiven for feeling that Donald Trump was Emmanuel Goldstein in the novel 1984. The photo framing and running text on those silent screens was like some scary parody of Big Brother. I don't see how DT can last. The long knives are out.
It's a shame nothing will get done.
Better than nothing is a very high bar.
I was listening to the interview with the "foster mother" of the couple who took the shooter in back in Nov. 2017. She mentioned that Cruz had shown improvement, that he had even been to two therapy sessions. Two therapy sessions in three months is pretty much officially "in therapy".
So, add the mental health profession to the list of agencies (mostly law enforcement so far) that failed to see what they were dealing with in Nikolas Cruz. I suspect that Cruz had the sociopath's gift of turning on the charm when needed, & the sociopath's curse of explosive anger when his will got thwarted.
Great article about a major contributor to today’s issues that is not getting discussed. I would love to hear Ann’s thoughts on this topic:
https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/will-guts-link-fatherlessness-school-shootings/
A young, angry nutcase goes on shooting spree at his former High School killing 17 people. That's an argument for gun control, I would think. I believe that the GOP's tax cuts for the rich will reduce the funds needed to help the mentally ill. Will that result in more senseless killings by crazy people? The combination of easy access to guns and mental illness is a volatile mix.
Mental illness is no excuse for insanity, however. You can quote me on that.
A county in Texas is on the ball.
Sheriff explains what they're doing to make their schools safer.
Why are we exposing kids to images of school shootings? We wouldn't show them ISIS videos, but we show them things they shouldn't be seeing. It's not like it's making them any safer.
The combination of easy access to guns and mental illness is a volatile mix.
Both have existed since the invention of the revolver. What went wrong?
No one in their right mind would send little kids into gun-free kill zones.
Memeorandeum has become a democrat-media propaganda arm. It is probably run by Russian bots.
Trumpit said...
A young, angry nutcase goes on shooting spree at his former High School killing 17 people. That's an argument for gun control, I would think.
About as much as a bus accident is an argument for bus control.
Besides, using the term "gun control" means you're too goofy to say what you really mean.
Cruz controlled his gun pretty well, didn't he? And that's what you want?
Anywho,
"Opioid overdose is now the leading cause of death of those under 50 in the United States."
Apparently, says ngram, "They" started using the silly-sounding, and silly-looking, word "opioid" in the 1960s because the drug-warriors were misusing the word "narcotic" to mean any drugs they didn't like.
Other countries have similar social issues to those mentioned above (low religiosity, high divorce rates, high levels of out of wedlock birth, etc.). Yet they have very few such events. Maybe, just maybe, we should look at our national obsession with firearms. That seems to be a factor.
And an "assault weapons" ban is probably next to worthless. What would probably help is to do what Australia did, ban practically all semi-automatic long guns. Nobody needs a semi-automatic rifle.
Every dark cloud has a silver lining.
'It was a reprieve. We had spent eight days getting pummeled': White House official admits the Florida school shooting 'distracted' the public from the series of scandals engulfing Trump's top team Anonymous White House official said the Florida school shooting was a 'reprieve' after 'seven or eight days of just getting pummeled
- DailyMail.com broke story about senior White House aide Rob Porter who allegedly domestically abused his two ex-wives
- Two cabinet secretaries were using taxpayer dollars to pay for luxury vacations
- Playboy centerfold Karen McDougal said she had a three-year affair with Trump in 2006, just after he married Melania
- Stormy Daniels' lawyer said she is now free to speak about her alleged affair with Trump in July 2006 because Trump's lawyer broke a nondisclosure
"Opioid overdose is now the leading cause of death of those under 50 in the United States."
So, how's that "war on drugs" thing been working out for ya?
People want to say things like "You are killing our children!" and "Not one more!" but they don't really have any proposals, especially any that could work to get rid of shootings like this.
There are, of course, people who just want to repeal the 2nd Amendment or confiscate guns Australia-style, but they need to dare to admit that. They also need to admit that it is pie in the sky, and if that's all they've got, they are just as "guilty" for killing our children.
In this case we can blame:
1. The shooter
2. The FBI
3. The school's lack of vigilance
There are broader elements but in each instance there are signs that were ignored and social media make the signs more obvious and create a "Watch me! I'll be powerful. I'll be famous!" mentality among the social misfits.
I call on Freder and ARM to demonstrate their commitment by ridding Chicago’s South Side of ARs and AKs.
And an "assault weapons" ban is probably next to worthless. What would probably help is to do what Australia did, ban practically all semi-automatic long guns. Nobody needs a semi-automatic rifle.
2/20/18, 8:14 AM
YOu get to go collect them all. What if the hoi polloi don't give them up?
YOu gonna' shoot them?
Trumpit said...
A young, angry nutcase goes on shooting spree at his former High School killing 17 people. That's an argument for gun control, I would think.
And you would be wrong. That is not an argument. That is a single data point. It could be used within an argument for gun control. It could be used within an argument for arming teachers. It could be used in an argument for locking up young, angry nutcases. It could be used in an argument for de-emphasizing high schools.
But by itself, it is not an argument.
One thing I've seen that I like is the idea that you could place a "hold" on people's guns if they are (credibly) reported as a threat. There would need to be built in to any law a way to get your guns back, and a way to find out what you need to do to clear your name.
That was the problem with the no-fly/no buy proposal (remember that?).
"Besides, using the term "gun control" means you're too goofy to say what you really mean." What do you think I really mean? I do hate hunters and trappers. Let them kill a grizzly bear with their bare hands and see how far they'd get.
Let’s ask the really tough questions. Why do we even need an FBI if a kid can, figuratively speaking, stand on a table waving his AR saying he plans to shoot up a school AND. THEY. DO. NOTHING.
Both have existed since the invention of the revolver. What went wrong?
It's like once someone did it, it became obvious how easy it is. Society really is based on the trust that people aren't just going to do something awful to others.
Pushing gun bans has not worked for 50 years. Let's keep trying. Definition of insanity.
Perhaps trying something else that everyone can agree on would be a way forward? Limiting media coverage seems like a good place to start.
Freder Frederson said...
Yet they have very few such events.
"But, even if one puts it in terms of frequency[of mass shootings], [Obama's] statement is still false, with the US ranking 12th compared to European countries."
Death-rate from "mass shootings" is highest in Norway.
But that data is for entertainment purposes only because the death-rate from mass-shootings is very low everywhere, so it's hardly something to worry about.
Shameful, indeed, but they have the best of intentions.
-sw
Why do we even need an FBI if a kid can
At least the DC component. Apparently, the local office was not informed.
Which other of your rights are you willing to forgo at the whim of an accusation, MayBee?
"A young, angry nutcase goes on shooting spree at his former High School killing 17 people. That's an argument for gun control, I would think."
That's an argument for young, angry nutcase control, I would think.
Gun control is not a means to the end of stopping mass shootings.
News coverage of mass shootings is a means to the end of gun control.
If you don't believe me, ask why they continue international coverage of these massacres when we know that notoriety is a goal of mass shooters. We give them what they want, and cause more shootings, for no reason.
But, even if one puts it in terms of frequency[of mass shootings], [Obama's] statement is still false, with the US ranking 12th compared to European countries.
That article includes acts of terrorism in its survey which makes its conclusions suspect since it does not include terrorist attacks in the U.S. (e.g., 9/11). Even the Norway shooting was arguably terrorism since it was politically motivated.
Also ask why all mass shooters (really not much of an exaggeration) have divorced parents and were raised by their mom. What's going on there?
“The world didn't collapse when we had a Federal Assault Weapons Ban.”
Which was a complete joke meant to con ignorant suckers. For myself, it was a political education. In half an hour I could prove beyond doubt that the whole thing’s a farce so who’s selling the lie? Who believes the lie? Who knows it’s a lie but repeats it anyway? There’s a great poly sci doctoral thesis waiting to be written on that little episode.
Shameful is correct. Let's remember how quickly Las Vegas disappeared from the news when the media realized its victims were not useful to its narrative.
We had an assault weapon ban. It did nothing but annoy gun owners and get George W. Bush elected.
Freder thinks it’s okay to shoot kids as long as it’s an act of terrorism, the way it was in Norway.
Jeff Roth said...
Great article about a major contributor to today’s issues that is not getting discussed.
https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/will-guts-link-fatherlessness-school-shootings/
Actually it gets discussed a lot, but nobody has shown a causal relationship - in fact, historically, the crime rate went down as the single-parenting rate went up.
Article--> "72 percent of adolescent murderers grew up without fathers; the same for 60 percent of all rapists."
72 is a funny number:
"Don Lemon says more than 72 percent of African-American births are out of wedlock" and despite their high murder rate, very few black adolescents murder anyone.
Single parents don't create criminals; the relationship between criminality and single parenting is that they're both the result of bad personalities.
Sigh - http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/29/don-lemon/cnns-don-lemon-says-more-72-percent-african-americ/
One of the worst mass shootings in American history took place at Virginia Tech. The shooter used a .22 caliber Walther pistol and a 9mm Glock pistol. He had no rifles, "assault" or otherwise, and still killed over 30 people and wounded about 20 more. Don't dare tell me that it's the fucking gun's fault, because it's not. It's a mental health and single-mother issue.
Anyone who knows anything about guns would know that a rifle is much harder to conceal, bordering on the impossible. The ammo is heavier and bulkier, as are the magazines. A rifle is also not the wisest choice for close-range combat, given that it requires both hands for accurate, aimed fire, and restricts the user's movement and ability to manipulate surroundings. It cannot be holstered, and slings are often awkward and can prevent things like opening doors quickly, or entering vehicles to make a hurried getaway. It's also harder to clear a jam from a rifle than a pistol in most cases, and misfires take more time to correct for.
Pistols are far deadlier in close quarters in the majority of cases. Pistols can easily be concealed, the ammo is light and the mags are small, clearing almost any jam or misfire aside from a "squib load" is a 2 or 4 step process that, with practice, takes mere seconds to complete, and the ammo is cheap and easy to carry in bulk.
Anyone claiming that a ban on AR-15 style rifles is unserious at best.
There are plenty of less-scary looking guns that operate EXACTLY the same way as an AR type does - .223 or 5.56mm rounds, 30rd box mags, plenty of accessories to mount, and semi-automatic with functional rates of fire faster than a human finger can move (hundreds of rounds per minute). Like the AR, they are not machine guns because it still takes a trigger pull to fire each round - holding the trigger down does nothing at all except fire one round, then you have to release the trigger to reset the sear and fire again. But the Left never goes after those guns, because they don't look scary. The AR is popular because it is lighter, has a few more accessory mounts, and has a different grip style and usually an adjustable stock. That's it.
If a Leftist made a comprehensive list of all the rifles that function the way they claim to hate - 30+ round mags, semi-auto, functional rate of fire of hundreds of rounds per minute (assuming anyone's finger is that fast), and able to mount a scope or laser sight or bipod - and argue they should ALL be banned, I'd be more inclined to take them seriously. I'd still disagree, but at least they've done their homework.
Never happen.
"What would probably help is to do what Australia did, ban practically all semi-automatic long guns."
Pistols would have been just as deadly in this environment. And they would be easier to obtain illegally if outlawed.
Freder Frederson said...
That article includes acts of terrorism in its survey which makes its conclusions suspect since it does not include terrorist attacks in the U.S. (e.g., 9/11). Even the Norway shooting was arguably terrorism since it was politically motivated.
How many people do you believe were shot by the 9/11 terrorists? If below 4, why do you think it should be included in a list of mass-shooting incidents? Why would it be brought up in a discussion about gun control?
n.n said...
There is armed security at airports, stadiums, studios, banks, Capitol Hill, clinics, 1% estates, etc., but not in schools, and leftists amplify the risk by denying the right of self-defense and identifying low opportunity cost zones.
2/20/18, 7:51 AM
It's almost as if leftists don't want to put armed security in schools because that's a solution that doesn't require gun control and they prefer to have children slaughtered if the end result means the end of the 2nd Amendment.
But if that is true, that would mean lefties are monstrously wicked people masquerading as compassionate do-gooders. And that can't be correct. Just look at the Utopias they created in the USSR, Cambodia, Cuba, Venezuela...You don't hear of any school shootings in Cuba, do you?
The instantaneous fame as a subject of wall-to-wall disaster porn across all the news media may have something to do with these repeat shootings, ya think?
My finger slipped and deleted part of a sentence.
"Anyone claiming that a ban on AR-15 style rifles would prevent mass shootings, or even reduce them, is unserious at best."
Which other of your rights are you willing to forgo at the whim of an accusation, MayBee?
I'm not really thinking that just an accusation would be enough. There would have to be a legal process.
But there's a difference between what I'm *willing* to forgo and what really happens. People can be put on a psychiatric hold, can have a restraining order put on them, can be kept from flying...
And they aren't laws that I agree with necessarily, but we currently have the sexual offender registry and civil asset forfeiture- two major infringements on rights. So it's not like we as a country aren't willing to take away rights.
Birches- the Native American kid who shot his friends at school disappeared from the news and the media narrative very quickly, too. You never ever hear about him.
But the Las Vegas shooter confounds me.
Hagar said...
The instantaneous fame as a subject of wall-to-wall disaster porn across all the news media may have something to do with these repeat shootings, ya think?
2/20/18, 8:53 AM
Yep. And yet the media keeps on doing it. I honestly don't think they want to consider any possible solution except taking people's guns away. And they certainly don't want to look at any "root causes" except for guns!!! bad, bad guns!!!
Last week, 2 twin brothers in the Bronx were arrested for plotting to blow children up. One of them was hoarding explosives in his apartment and they apparently had enough material to blow up a city block. They had special ed students helping them collect it, since one of the twins was a former teacher who had been canned for having sex with a 15 year old student. How much coverage has that story received?
Now if the two evil twins had been hoarding guns and ammo, the media would be all over it.
Didn't a man with a knife kill over 20 people in China recently?
Beloved Commenter AReasonableMan said...
An unserious man virtue signaling an unserious topic.
You have no moral high ground, ARM.
You conceded it years ago.
"1. The shooter
2. The FBI
3. The school's lack of vigilance"
One mostly unreported aspect of this came out with the death of Trayvon Martin. The question was why was he not behind bars, having been caught red handed with stolen jewelry and pot at school. The answer, apparently, is that the Broward County school district had decriminalized criminal behavior in order to compensate for differing arrest rates for different ethnic groups. Before this the Black and Hispanic arrest and expulsion rates were significantly higher than the white rates. The solution was to not arrest or expel law breaking Blacks and Hispanics. Martin was, of course, Black, and this shooter apparently was considered Hispanic, based on his name. And, yes, of course, they were both being raised outside wedlock.
Your first comment referenced "(credibly) reported as a threat" as the basis, MayBee -- much different than a court hearing.
Fabi- you are right. I guess I was letting "credibly" do a lot of lifting in there. I'm not sure what process I would propose, but when we have a guy like Cruz whois reported- or like Elliot Rodger or Omar Mateen- once the authorities are notified there's a problem, there has to be something they can *do* wrt to their access to guns.
1. There is nothing new about this "political framing." The anti-gun and often ignorantly anti-gun framing of mass-shooting issues predates Trump.
2. Given the media bias, conservatives need to be particularly careful about how they approach the debate, and the emotionalism of the liberals' side. Putting out Tweets that link the FBI's having missed the Florida shooter together with the FBI spending too much time on investigating the Trump campaign are not helpful to the issue.
Although Elliot Rodger killed 3 people horrifically with a knife, which isn't something that gets put in the narrative very often, either.
"Putting out Tweets that link the FBI's having missed the Florida shooter together with the FBI spending too much time on investigating the Trump campaign are not helpful to the issue."
Those tweets were perfectly framed in very way. I wish he'd have added that the FBI is also wasting manpower (xipower?) investigating college basketball recruiting.
Thanks for that reply, MayBee -- it's an issue fraught with peril because it addresses the infringement of our founding rights.
Do we have an answer for why the left failed to do anything about gun control when they had a house majority, a super majority in the senate, and Obama in the White House?
exiledonmainstreet said...
Last week, 2 twin brothers in the Bronx were arrested for plotting to blow children up.
More wily white Hispanics.
One of them was hoarding explosives in his apartment and they apparently had enough material to blow up a city block.
No, nothing near that much ("32 pounds of ingredients"): that includes 20 pounds of rust:
"The complaint said that the agents found bomb-making materials in a closet, including a box containing about 20 pounds of iron oxide, five pounds of aluminum powder, five pounds of potassium nitrate, all materials that can be used to build explosives. It also contained about
two pounds of confectioners sugar, which the complaint said can be used as fuel in an explosive. They also found firecrackers and other explosive materials."
Iron oxide is used in welding (thermite). Burns very hot, but no explosion.
Aluminum powder and potassium nitrate are used in commercial fireworks. I think, but not sure, that firework mixtures burn fast to make a good loud noise, but they have far less energy than dynamite or other non-firework explosives.
IIRC, we were afraid of potassium nitrate because the mixed compounds can be set off by dropping, shaking, etc.
Aluminum powder + sulfur + saltpeter = pretty good pretty safe fireworks, bombs or flares depending how packed. Replace the AL with carbon and you have gunpowder.
Gunpowder was more suitable for rocket engines than for explosives.
Donald Trump in his book, "The America We Deserve" (2000): “I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s internet technology we should be able to tell within 72 hours if a potential gun owner has a record.”
Way back in 2000, Obama and Hillary opposed gay marriage. What's your point, Chuckles?
Freder:
In case you missed it, 9/11 wasn't a mass shooting.
Fabi said...
Do we have an answer for why the left failed to do anything about gun control when they had a house majority, a super majority in the senate, and Obama in the White House?
Of course we do. We have that answer. The Democrats, and the left, want an "issue" more than they want any laws or -- heaven forefend -- any electoral consequences. Democrats want a villain. Its why they can't resist bringing "the NRA" into any and every gun discussion. When real gun owners know how distant the NRA generally is from their everyday lives and routine gun ownership and use.
"And an "assault weapons" ban is probably next to worthless. What would probably help is to do what Australia did, ban practically all semi-automatic long guns. Nobody needs a semi-automatic rifle."
As others have noted, semiautomatic handguns can be, and have been just as, if not even more, deadly in such close quarters. And my guess is that 2/3-3/4 of the > 300 million firearms in private hands in this country are semiautomatics, ranging from WW II M1 Garands and carbines, through the millions of polymer framed handguns now owned by Americans these days. I was at a range yesterday, and of the better than dozen lanes in use, didn't see any firearms that weren't semiautomatic. Mostly, it was striker fired handguns, like Glock makes, but there were a couple of 1911s, and a couple AR-15 variants.
And, yes, semiautomatics are necessary. The police went to semiautomatic handguns (and semiautomatic or fully automatic rifles and carbines) after being massively outgunned in a couple of notable instances. The gun owners in this country are not going to allow themselves to be put in that same position, where only the police and the criminals have semiautomatic firearms, and law abiding citizens don't. Won't happen. Disarm the criminals first, and then maybe we can talk.
And, yes, there are situations where semiautomatics are really optimal in dealing with nature. Down south, they have a feral pig problem, and the ultimate firearm to use against them appears to be the AR-15. And, for us in W MT, that firearm is probably close to optimal with Wolves, but you probably need something heavier for black, and esp brown, bear. Or, if you are not hunting, but just minding your business, a 10 mm semiautomatic handgun seems to be preferred (such as a Glock G20/G40), shooting solid cast bullets. Every year, it seems, someone survives because they were able to kill a grizzly before it killed them, using that type of firearm. The nice thing about, say, a G20, is that you can carry it loaded with solid cast, for bear, but quickly switch to hollow point with a mag switch, for Wolves.
Finally, the reality is that a good part of the justification for the 2nd Amdt was to provide the citizenry armed defense against an overbearing govt. Indeed, the Revolutionary War started with the citizenry repelling an attempt by the British govt to disarm them. That was the source of the "shot heard around the world". The need for this hasn't disappeared over the last 240 years, but, if anything, is even greater, due to the massive growth in govt.
Fabi said...
Way back in 2000, Obama and Hillary opposed gay marriage. What's your point, Chuckles?
Thank you. Thank you very much indeed for your assistance on this.
The gay marriage issue demonstrates so beautifully what shameless, unprincipled, craven hypocrites the Clintons and the Obamas are. Few things make their disgusting political opportunism clearer, than their self-reversals on "gay marriage."
To a slightly (only slightly) less extent, the assault weapons ban issue exposes Donald Trump as the same sort of craven and unprincipled political opportunist. No leading Republican has more baggage from old, stupid, wrong-headed issue statements, than Trump.
"A young, angry nutcase goes on shooting spree at his former High School killing 17 people. That's an argument for gun control, I would think."
"That's an argument for young, angry nutcase control, I would think."
Thanks for your glib response to a serious issue. Have a nice day, and don't get shot.
I agree with you, Chuck -- my comment was intended as a brickbat to the left.
Thanks for the clarification, Fernandistein. I know less about explosives than the average liberal does about guns.
Bruce Hayden said...
"And an "assault weapons" ban is probably next to worthless. What would probably help is to do what Australia did, ban practically all semi-automatic long guns. Nobody needs a semi-automatic rifle."
Get your terminology right.
Australia attempted a confiscation of all semi-auto long guns. A national buyback, intended to round up all such weapons, pay off the owners, and eliminate them from the population. It didn't work, of course. Not everyone complied. Up to a third of owners didn't turn them in.
Whenever anybody in the U.S. talks about "common sense" gun laws, I want to know where they stand on Australian law, and confiscations of guns.
Fabi said...
I agree with you, Chuck -- my comment was intended as a brickbat to the left.
Mine as well.
"When terrorists attacked a school in Maalot in 1974, Israel did not declare every school a gun-free zone. It passed a law mandating armed security in schools, provided weapons training to teachers and today runs frequent active shooter drills. There have been only two school shootings since then, and both have ended with teachers killing the terrorists."
So, why don't we do what the Israelis do? Because it doesn't involve banning guns.
Our teachers will not allow a bunch of gun toting republicans in their midst. What are you people drinking?
@Chuck - you are seemingly attributing to me something that I was quoting from Freder up towards the top. I had to go all the way back almost to the start of the thread to find it, but figured it had to be either from him, or from ARM.
Newt has in mi d the one law that might have an effect: arm the staff with concealed weapons. No gun laws paint a target on schools.
Yet they have very few such events. Maybe, just maybe, we should look at our national obsession with firearms. That seems to be a factor.
Field Marshall Freder tells us that 9/11 was a mass shooting.
Thank you sir. Maybe I have another ?
The Australia buyback collected about 1/3 of the guns.
The results are minimal.
As a result, concluded one academic assessment, "Suicide rates did not fall, though there was a shift toward less use of guns, continuing a very long-term decline. Homicides continued a modest decline; taking into account the one-time effect of the Port Arthur massacre itself, the share of murders committed with firearms declined sharply. Other violent crime, such as armed robbery, continued to increase, but again with fewer incidents that involved firearms."
A largely peaceful country remained peaceful, with alternative weapons sometimes adopted in place of guns by those who weren't so well-intentioned.
And
In Australia, part of the supply of banned firearms comes from defiance of the original prohibition. The Sporting Shooters' Association of Australia estimates compliance with the "buyback" at 19 percent.
Other researchers agree. In a white paper on the results of gun control efforts around the world, Franz Csaszar, a professor of criminology at the University of Vienna, Austria, gives examples of large-scale non-compliance with the ban. He points out, "In Australia it is estimated that only about 20% of all banned self-loading rifles have been given up to the authorities."
Gun smuggling in Australia is unabated.
Re buyback: In Seattle they had a big 'buyback' and offered ridiculously high prices for mostly old, non-functional firearms. What a joke!
Bruce Hayden said...
@Chuck - you are seemingly attributing to me something that I was quoting from Freder up towards the top. I had to go all the way back almost to the start of the thread to find it, but figured it had to be either from him, or from ARM.
Yep, my bad. I didn't even intend to attribute anything to you. It was the gist of what was written. My complete apologies to you under the circumstances. I thought that the quotation marks set it off, when in fact I think I should have scrubbed your name from it. Please forgive me. And to others; please don't mix up what Bruce wrote, from what he was quoting.
As far as psych care and drug therapy is concerned, we have no way of knowing how many potential killers have been helped with therapy and drugs.
Agree that no publicity for shooter might be a deterrent.
Broward County, Florida, home of Parkland H.S.:
Registered Voters as of 2/20/18
Democrats:593,964
Republicans:253,940
NPA:331,224
Other:5,225
Total:1,184,353
Everything is about politics for Democrats regardless of age. Most Democrats reason like teenagers. So for the DNC/MSM this may seem like "the truth" rather than exploitation of teenage survivors.
Freder:
"Maybe, just maybe, we should look at our national obsession with firearms. "
Fucking breakthrough commentary. Incisive. A call for justice, reflection. Who could outdo that? OK, I'm in and having a look at the very second. And although I own a number of firearms I am not obsessed with them. In fact it is all I can do to clean them every so often. And every one of them is a "semi-automatic" meaning they are not single shots and they are not bolt action weapons. Every time I pull the trigger of one of my guns it fires a round and will keep doing so every time I pull the trigger until I am out of shells. I even have several double barrel "semi-automatic" guns. But I am looking at the national part of the obsession. Looking and Looking,
LLR and #StrongDurbinDefender Chuck: "To a slightly (only slightly) less extent, the assault weapons ban issue exposes Donald Trump as the same sort of craven and unprincipled political opportunist. No leading Republican has more baggage from old, stupid, wrong-headed issue statements, than Trump"
LOL
I wonder if there are any differences in Trump vs obama/Clinton "evolution" on issues?
Why yes there is!
In obama/Clinton's case, we all knew they were lying about being moderates and sure enough they quickly evolved to far left.
In Trump's case, early on as a New Yorker with pals on both sides of the aisle he adopted public positions that were left of center.
But as a candidate and as a President, he has evolved to a much more conservative position just about across the board.
Hmmmm, you might think that would be an important distinction. Not to our #StrongCNNDefender Chuckie apparently.
In fact, we have just completed the most conservative year of governance in our lifetimes.
No wonder our "principled" and "real" conservative Chuckie is so upset. Chuck's mood and tone is always in perfect alignment with the dems.
I am a bit surprised that experienced "Weaponeer" and gun related crime statistician Field Marshall Freder could get that many things wrong in that short a period of time.
But then again, when it comes to getting things wrong, that Freder is a real "gamer".
Also ask why all mass shooters (really not much of an exaggeration) have divorced parents and were raised by their mom. What's going on there?
It was Dennis Prager (I think) who said: "It isn't 'White Privilege', it's 'Two Parent Family Privilege'.
I think he's right.
In Freder's defense, those 9-11 highjackers probably did handle a weapon or 2 in their lifetimes so what's the big deal if we include them in our gun-related terrorist action stats?
I mean, it's still Fake But Accurate, isn't it?
eddie: "It was Dennis Prager (I think) who said: "It isn't 'White Privilege', it's 'Two Parent Family Privilege"
Ben Shapiro is often on about that as well.
3 Simple rules to advance and be successful in America:
1) Complete high school
2) Don't have babies before you are married
3) Get a job
The world didn't collapse when we had a Federal Assault Weapons Ban.
Didn't stop school shootings, either.
Try harder. Or not.
Nobody needs a semi-automatic rifle. - Freder the Totalitarian
For the last, fucking time: YOU don't get to decide what I do and don't need.
Did you see the photographs of the Sherrif of Broward County with every Democrat hack from Hillary to Biden to that. Curly haired bitch who was in charge of the DNC and hiring terrorist to run Congresses computers?
If this Democratic hack had done his job and followed up on the reports about this troubled youte maybe they could have prentred this. Like the FBI he was just useless.
When every second counts the police are only twenty minutes away.
The common factor among these young male shooters is being on psychotropic meds and then being OFF them unsupervised. The VA Te h shooter, the CO massacre, the FL one last week, the guy who shot Gabby and on and on. We need to stop trying make little boys sit still in class and then out to play. Medicating them is a short term solution with horrible after effects. Not every kid who fidgets is ADHD. Schools have become insistent on drugging kids who don’t need them.
And to make Freder and Trumpits head explode I’ll say this slowly and carefully: THANK GOD THESE SHOOTERS ARE DUMB ENOUGH TO USE AN AR-15 INSTEAD OF A TRULY LETHAL WEAPON.
There's a survivor of the shooting, a kid named David Hogg, who has been interviewed quite a lot by CNN. He blames Trump and the GOP for the shootings. There is a clip of him stumbling over clearly rehearsed lines. Coincidentally, he's the son of an FBI agent.
John CardilloVerified account @johncardillo · 4h4 hours ago
I was at the anti-gun rally in #Parkland yesterday.
These kids are being forced to spew these talking points by far left faculty and groups like @Everytown and @MomsDemand.
Both of those groups admitted that they're the ones paying for the buses up to Tallahassee."
It just seems weird how swiftly and efficiently these "children's crusades" sprang up. It sure does divert attention from how the Feds bungled the case.
It just seems weird how swiftly and efficiently these "children's crusades" sprang up. It sure does divert attention from how the Feds bungled the case.
Yep. Round up the usual suspects: Trump. Guns. Republicans.
Some of the gun ban story is unraveling.
That kid seems to be a professional "student."
Good Lord we've had 10-30 million people just walk across our southern border and take up life here in the US and we have fools talking about "gun control". We can't people but we'll be able to stop guns? What a bunch of idiots.
"Nobody needs a semi-automatic rifle."
-- Nobody needs a blog or a newspaper either.
Chuck:
“Please forgive me. And to others; please don't mix up what Bruce wrote, from what he was quoting.”
Thanks.
Thanks, Chuck, for the mea culpa. This has happened to me, too, where the quote I was quoting was attributed to me and my subsequent response made no sense. [Not that my posts make sense, anyway]. ;-)
Michael K said...
Some of the gun ban story is unraveling.
That kid seems to be a professional "student."
Do you think the networks know, and hire them when they want the story and can't find the right person to say it, or is it one of those "Gregory Packer" sort of characters?
Too bad there was never a time during Obama's presidency when the Democrats controlled both the House and the Senate and could've passed any kind of gun control they wanted. Oh, wait . . .
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