“I willingly took my most precious gift in this world to you, and you hurt her,” said Anne Swinehart, who was allowed to directly address Dr. Nassar in court after her daughter Jillian spoke on Tuesday. “Physically, mentally and emotionally, and she was only 8.”Sentencing the 54-year-old doctor to 40 to 125 years in prison, the judge said "It is my honor and privilege to sentence you.... I just signed your death warrant."
“I cannot help but think, how did I miss the red flags?” she said. “How is it that I misinterpreted your intent so wrongly? I wanted my daughter to get better, to achieve her dreams, to participate and succeed in a sport she loved.”
Ms. Swinehart said she remembered looking at Jillian during an appointment and seeing her grimacing in pain. Now, she said, she realizes “that it was not a knotted muscle that was causing that.”
January 24, 2018
"The red flags may have been there, but they were designed to be hidden. I know how hard-core sports moms are."
Said Judge Rosemarie Aquilina of Ingham County Circuit Court, at the sentencing hearing for Lawrence G. Nassar, the former Olympic gymnastics team and sports medicine doctor, who pleaded guilty to 7 counts of sexual assault. 150 young women testified against him for behavior that went on for many years, the NYT reports, often with the parents in the room.
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146 comments:
Madame Defarge.
Perfect example of the refusal to believe children are systematically abused by people who pretend to be helper of children. No one wants to face that offensive truth.
The judge's statement is creepy.
Nassar worked at Michigan State. The NCAA's silence on this is creepy.
Trouble is, parents themselves count among the chief abusers of their children, if only because of their smothering and hovering, male sexual mutilation, and inculcating of their religious superstitions. As bad a public education is, at least it gets kids relief from the oppressive influence of their parents.
It's behind a paywall. Someone else will report on the sentencing.
@MadMan, you have me wondering. Nassar was an assistant professor at MSU; he never abused any children while he was there? Or did MSU and Sparrow Hospital fail to investigate allegations of child abuse?
What parent allows their young daughter to be examined by a male doctor without the presence of an adult female in the room?
What male doctor examines young girls without the presence of an adult female?
the judge said "It is my honor and privilege to sentence you.... I just signed your death warrant."
Ah, yes. American "justice." Look, if you think he should be sentenced to death for this, have the courage to do it yourself. Or at least have the basic human decency, the basic respect for your own august office to restrain yourself from gloating about how this convict is going to be killed in prison. Disgusting.
^ ^ ^
This.
I am so happy to see him go to prison.
The judge saying she just signed his "death warrant" seems actionable to me. Is it grounds for an appeal? How can we put someone in prison when the judge has basically called for his death in prison?
Mad Man- the NCAA has sent a letter to Michigan State notifying them that they will start an investigation. I think perhaps they were waiting for this trial to wrap up.
But I agree with you in general. MSU was too silent about it, the NCAA has been too silent about it. I love my MSU but they need to do more. I don't see how President Lou Anna K Simon can remain. Her defense has been that nobody at the university knew he was abusing girls. Note: not that nobody at the University was told he was abusing girls. Oddly, woman after woman defended Nassar to the girls, and stood in the way of reporting going further.
Good job by a courageous Judge. A sentence is the JUDGEMENT upon the crime. It this one needed to be as harsh and bold as possible.
I can’t believe a judge said that.
Would I be a bad person if I made a guess at the gender of the judge?
He's 54. A 40 to 125 year sentence means he'll die in prison.
Did the judge really say that at the end? That is seriously unprofessional, and likely can be used by the defense attorney in any appeal relating to this case.
The NCAA, most universities, and the Olympic committee are run by degenerates in general.
I can’t think of any other organizations that are more debased and exploitative of their charges.
Parents who pay doctors to mutilate their infant son's penis shortly after birth, i.e., circumcision, i.e., a surgical removal of his foreskin should be incarcerated for no less than 10 years with no possibility of parole. I would build new prisons to house all the sick sexual mutilators of male babies. The same penalty applies to the greedy pediatricians and obstetricians who encourage and perform the surgeries. May they all meet Trump and buff bubba in prison for a quorum on the rules for tiddlywinks.
@Wilber, follow the link Balfegor provided and be enlightened.
Big Mike- yes, several of his victims were either in sports at MSU or attended sports camps there.
Out of all my time as an expert court room drama watcher I don’t remember ever hearing a judge express a sentencing in that manner.
I don’t know what to make of it.
Women don't make the greatest judges.
What parent allows their young daughter to be examined by a male doctor without the presence of an adult female in the room?
What male doctor examines young girls without the presence of an adult female?
The parents were in the room, often sitting right next to their daughters. He committed his abuse under a drape, as if it were part of the examination. The article doesn't say, but I wonder if he was treating pelvic injuries. The article does say, however, that he was caught with pediatric porn and that then led to these accusations and trial.
He certainly deserves to be in jail for a very long time, even the rest of his natural life, but the "I just signed your death warrant" comment is creepy and uncalled for.
“He believed he would get away with it,” she said, by hiding behind a pubic persona as a father, husband, school board candidate.
With a "pubic persona," you'd think everyone would have caught on.
Wow. Grounds for appeal. May get his sentence cut in half from 125 years to 62.5.
The judge’s comments have assured that the appellate court will scrutinize the sentence carefully, within the limits of its review power. From the defendant’s point of view, it is better that her sentiments are on the record.
"Trumpit: The Beclowning!" still continues.
The judge wasn't advocating someone killing the defendant in prison. She was saying that he would remain in prison until he is dead.
As a thought project, take the age you are at now and add 175 year prison term to it.
What age will you be when you get out?
Re: Livermoron:
The judge wasn't advocating someone killing the defendant in prison. She was saying that he would remain in prison until he is dead.
That's how you use the term "death warrant?" I sentence you to live to a ripe old age -- I just signed your "death warrant"?
Don't be obtuse. We all know what she meant.
Many people at MSU knew, apparently. Their leadership here was worse than Penn State's was during the Sandusky thing. Here are a few links:
The Only Colors, Yahoo Sports, Detroit Free Press, The Ringer, Click On Detroit, more Yahoo Sports, Michigan Radio.
"He's 54. A 40 to 125 year sentence means he'll die in prison."
That's how I read it at first. That's not how I see it now.
the judge said "It is my honor and privilege to sentence you.... I just signed your death warrant."
I was initially put off by the judge's comment; it's her duty, not an honor or privilege to put that man away. But, the man abused his position to the hilt. We entrust our lives to doctors, so it is particularly egregious when they abuse their prestigious, and respected position in society as healers to carry out their selfish crimes. My mother was intentionally overdosed on morphine, so I've been there. Throw the book at the bastards.
"Ah, yes. American "justice." Look, if you think he should be sentenced to death for this, have the courage to do it yourself."
The death penalty is not a possibility for this crime. Under the case law, it would be unconstitutional. (And the statute would need to provide for it.)
The judge was extremely unprofessional and deserves criticism for her lack of restraint. The sentence is within the statutory framework for these offenses, so it won't be reversed on appeal, but if there is an appeal, the judge will face some mild criticism from the appellate court for her hyperbole while the sentence is still upheld. You can read her comments as predicting his murder in prison because of the offenses for which he stands convicted as a child molester, but I suspect she meant he would die in prison of old age due to the length of the sentence. The latter is how an appellate court will decide to interpret her intemperate words. JPG
Five bucks says Dr. Nassar gets a new trial because of the judge's intemperance.
Maybe she's trying to keep him from getting killed under the assumption that no one in prison wants to fulfill the wishes of judges.
Achilles said...
The NCAA, most universities, ... are run by degenerates in general.
I can’t think of any other organizations that are more debased and exploitative of their charges.
So you favor banning college football?
Re: Althouse:
The death penalty is not a possibility for this crime. Under the case law, it would be unconstitutional. (And the statute would need to provide for it.)
Also, it's Michigan state court, I believe, and a quick googling tells me that Michigan doesn't have the death penalty anyhow.
Re: the comments about it being helpful on review or there being appellate scrutiny -- the man actually is guilty of the horrible crimes of which he is accused, it would appear, so even if her comments did trigger additional scrutiny, I'm not sure how much that is likely to help.
He's 54 and has already been sent to 60 years of federal time. There is no parole in federal criminal code. No good-day-in-good-day-out or other such nonsense that let's criminals walk out of decades long sentences on state crimes. Practically speaking, this has all been theater. Maybe it makes the victims and their advocates feel better, but was it really the best use of the State of Michigan's resources? What other victims were overlooked, what crimes given less attention, because this case featured high profile victims and a judge so amenable turning it all into a media circus? They should've just locked him up and thrown away the key weeks ago.
I didn't pay that much attention to the trial, mostly because it's too creepy. I may be mistaken but I have the impression that the Sandusky trial received far more publicity. Was this due to politics? Football is a far more politically incorrect sport than gymnastics, and perhaps reporters exult in its scandals. Also gymnastics is a ratings grabber for the Olympics and the networks. They may have a vested interest in muting these charges. It's curious as to why steroid abuses have gotten more publicity than these crimes.
If the judge meant something other than he'll never be released then it suggests a huge investigation is needed into the state's prison system.
He'll be an old man when he gets out.
My wife asked how did the mothers not know? This case has some overlap with the Roman Polanski case. Parents advance their children in very competitive fields and take risks with the child's welfare in order to do this. It has been know for a long time that competitive gymnastics has problems with abuse, though more mental and physical abuse. In such an environment parents are required to be hypervigilant.
Personally I had no problem with the judge's comments, although they may risk a retrial, they have focused attention on the mismanagement and negligence of the US gymnastic committee, all of whom should also face trial.
FROM THE SECOND LINK: "It is my honor and privilege to sentence you,” she said, and noting the length of the sentence, added, “I just signed your death warrant."
I'm gonna go with die in prison.
I haven't kept up with this case that closely. From what I've seen of Judge Aquilina I can easily imagine her ending up starring in her own afternoon TV "judge" show.
There's no death penalty in Michigan, not even for 1st degree murder. The State of Michigan was the first English-speaking government in the world to outlaw the death penalty.
Circuit Judge Rosemarie Acquilina is a Democrat and an activist and a publicity-seeker and most of you would really not like her record in high-profile cases. Because she is an Ingham County (Lansing) Circuit Court Judge, she gets assigned lots of high-profile cases involving state government and the Court of Claims, in addition to the Nassar case which is a standard criminal filing within her jurisdiction. She's bad news.
I'm gonna go with die in prison.
Well, yeah.
But of old age, or by someone else's hands?
Death warrant usually means giving the state permission to actually kill someone.
Could she sign something for Trumpit?
Perhaps the bit of foreskin he lost.
Judicial sentencing in the Age of Bullshit. Michigan judges are elected politicians so don't expect the Michigan Supreme Court to overturn this sentence. Probably not sufficient grounds to do that, anyway.
Christ on a cracker. It's pretty clear from some of the comments here that several of you have not followed this case one bit, but are now playing armchair quarterback about this judge.
The man pled GUILTY. The victim impact statements were part of his plea agreement. The attorney general's office insisted upon them as a condition of the plea. Nassar had the opportunity to plead not guilty and take his chances. This proceeding was for sentencing purposes only.
Both during the proceedings and at the end of the impact statements, this judge read excerpts from a letter he wrote last week, AFTER he plead guilty, in which it was made clear that he's a completely narcissistic, unrepentant, sociopathic pedophile. She then gave Nassar the opportunity to withdraw his plea and he declined.
I don't give a crap if she is a Democrat, Republican, Hillary lover, Trump lover, whatever. She handed this scumbag his ass on a plate, and he deserved it.
Now, MSU, USGA, USOC, and many other organizations need to receive some justice for what these girls and women have gone through.
Balfegor said...
Ah, yes. American "justice."
That article has some anecdotes.
This is its statistical content:
"A recent report [404!] from the Associated Press suggests inmates in the California state prison system are getting killed at twice the national average, with sex offenders disproportionately likely to meet their demise inside—"
Summary: ("sex offenders" or "child molesters" - which is it?) are somewhere between 1% more likely and, oh, maybe 10,000% more likely to get killed in prison.
I think they all "knew" and went along rather than make a stir and miss their chance at the brass ring. This show was just to cover their asses - girls and grownups alike.
Belle17- I have followed the case. I find him repulsive. I would not shed a tear if someone kills him in jail.
But...we shouldn't have a legal system that winks at people in jail being killed by other inmates. If a sitting judge is so aware that pedophiles get killed in prison, she should be doing something to change that, rather than codifying that from the bench.
The only way to have a just society is to be just to even the most horrible among us. Right?
@Trumpit. I just read your comments re: circumcision. You are either an uninformed adolescent or a woefully ignorant adult.
Left Bank of the Charles said...
Judicial sentencing in the Age of Bullshit. Michigan judges are elected politicians so don't expect the Michigan Supreme Court to overturn this sentence. Probably not sufficient grounds to do that, anyway.
I'm curious what anyone thinks was "Bullshit" about the sentencing?
Most likely, Nassar will die as an inmate in the Michigan Department of Corrections. We have had a few odd commutations in recent years; extremely aged prisoners who were costing too much with their prison healthcare. Feeble old men, on dialysis, or chemotherapy, etc. I'm not too keen on my Michigan tax dollars going to that. I think Snyder has done about four of those.
I truly did NOT interpret the judge's comment about this sentence being a death warrant as anything other than what she has said all throughout the hearing, which is that Nassar's sentence is longer than his natural life will ever be.
She also, more than once, spoke up in defense of Nassar's attorneys, and made it clear that as repugnant as his crimes are, he is afforded the same constitutional protections as any other defendant.
You got your soft pore corn and then you got your hard pore corn, where you can see the kernels close-up.
sentence being a death warrant as anything other than what she has said all throughout the hearing, which is that Nassar's sentence is longer than his natural life will ever be.
But that's not what she said this time.
And yes, I was glad to hear her speak up in defense of Nassar's attorneys, given that they had just told her they were receiving emails at that very moment wishing death upon their children.
And now we have to consider the possibility that somewhere out there is a female gymnast who would put Simone Biles and Ally Raisman and Gabby Douglas to shame, but her parents listened when she complained about being sexually abused and the USGA and the Karolyi family booted her off the team.
Belle17; my comments about Judge Acquilina were all about the next big case she might have; not this one.
A future case, where she might be hearing a redistricting claim, or a challenge to a religious freedom law, or a voter i.d. case.
I'm quite happy to have Nassar in jail and I'll never shed a tear when he dies; but having been in that courtroom myself, I know rather well how these last four days have been orchestrated for cameras. Just because Nassar is a monster pedophile doesn't mean that he didn't have a point about the judge's grandstanding. It's not her first time.
AReasonableMan said...
So you favor banning college football?
The one or two highest paid state employees in almost every state are football coaches. Closely followed by an army of administrators and other worthless scum making high 6 figures.
The kids get a "free education" and 99% of them do not go pro.
Either the coaches and University employees are paid in "free educations" or pay the players. The whole system is manned be democrats that needed a new plantation of slaves to tend.
I have a huge problem is with bigtime sports in general. I think it verges on child abuse to let one's child get so consumed by sports that this is all they do to the point of not getting an education. Even if they do get a degree.
My son was pretty serious about basketball from 8 yrs old through HS and played on the champion municipal league one year. His team beat teams from 77 other municipalities.
He was asked to try out for the PR Olympic team and I forbade it. I am still very happy I did. He is too. Might have been fun to try out but what if he had gotten accepted? He would have wound up 25 and beat to shit with no degree and no good way to earn a living.
I blame Nassar, of course but I also blame the parent for letting their daughter into a program like this. "This" being any program that requires a kid to be a full time athlete.
John Henry
Balfegor, I read the sentence as that he will be in prison until he dies. Unless he lives to 150 or so.
I did not read it as hoping he would be killed in prison, though that certainly is a possibility given the shameful state of our prisons today.
John Henry
Belle17 said...
I don't give a crap if she is a Democrat, Republican, Hillary lover, Trump lover, whatever. She handed this scumbag his ass on a plate, and he deserved it.
He deserves far worse than he will get. That is beside the point.
Judges have a job that requires them to distance themselves from the final judgement in the case. They must remain impartial in every way. The law, written by society, provides prejudice and judgement. They merely apply it.
A lot of people seem to not understand what happens when a judge allows their opinions and motivations get involved. Or they do and they applaud.
Apparently she is female and she is an activist.
Figures.
I do not practice criminal law, and so I can't say how odd or inappropriate it is, for a sentencing hearing to allow victim statements from persons who were not covered by any charging document in the case.
With Nassar (and feel free to check me on the numbers), there were three counts of criminal sexual contact. But there were something like 140+ victim statements.
How can that be allowable? Is there just a sign-up sheet in the courthouse?
Who is the evidentiary gatekeeper on whose statements are valid?
Big Mike said...
And now we have to consider the possibility that somewhere out there is a female gymnast who would put Simone Biles and Ally Raisman and Gabby Douglas to shame, but her parents listened when she complained about being sexually abused and the USGA and the Karolyi family booted her off the team.
Probably not Biles. I actually saw some of the Olympics while at a building that had them on. She was objectively far better than anyone else there.
But your point in general is a good one.
Chuck said...
Left Bank of the Charles said...
Judicial sentencing in the Age of Bullshit. Michigan judges are elected politicians so don't expect the Michigan Supreme Court to overturn this sentence. Probably not sufficient grounds to do that, anyway.
btw; I expect that the Michigan Supreme Court (5-2 Republican majority) knows exactly what to think about Judge Acquilina. Still, there's not much to overturn with this sentencing (there are guidelines in Michigan as in most places), and appeals on sentencing after a guilty plea are almost always lost causes.
A bit off topic but some offenders like Nassar are sentenced to shorter sentences. This may be right or wrong but it means that they get out of prison.
In some states, Washigton is one I think I remember, the prisoners are released from prison into other facilities that are the functional equivalent of prison and can look forward to spending the rest of their lives there.
I am very conflicted on this. On the one hand, anyone who has served their sentence should be freed. On the other, these people are determined by psychiatrists to be an ongoing danger to society and should not be let loose. On still another hand, they are determined by psychiatrists to be a danger and psychiatry seems to me to be only a step above voodoo in many cases.
John Henry
Re: Chuck:
Who is the evidentiary gatekeeper on whose statements are valid?
I don't know the practice in Michigan, but this isn't a capital case, so I don't think there's a jury to be unfairly swayed by the victim statements at sentencing. I am sort of curious as to how they were all identified and vetted before being permitted to make their statements, though.
I'll bet that Nassar wishes he had Harvey Weinstein's money, but at least Harvey waited for them to become legal.......I think.
I'm ok with the judge expressing some emotion with "my honor and privilege to sentence". I agree with others that the "signing the death warrant" is vulgar unless literally signing such a warrant.
Related, my wife (a RN) told me this morning of this doctor that has yet to sign a Death Certificate for a patient that died on Dec 5th. I was amazed that the Doctor could be so callous, but she explained the many reasons why a Doctor could reasonably refuse to sign a Death Certificate (most of it simply if they are themselves uncertain of cause of death, which you then send to a ME to determine), but in this case the Doctor was likely just lazy.
Death Certificates, Death Warrants; these are important documents, no?
Judge talked for a yawning 45 minutes - sounded more like a #meToo speech than a sentencing hearing. Threw in her grandparents were immigrants and came to America to find a better place to live for their children.
Humperdink,
I think you are wrong. There is as little need to ritually mutilate boys, as there is to do it to girls.
I disagree with Trumpit on the punishment for parents, though I do think there should be severe punishment for doctors who do it to girls or boys.
Because I was circumcised, and didn't really think about it at the time, I let them circumcise my son. He, more or less for the same reasons, let a doctor mutilate his son. He will probably, in 15-20 years, do it to my great grandson.
I feel ashamed now that I let them do it, that I did not break the chain of mutilation.
His body, his choice. It should not be the parent's choice to make. Even less should it be the doctor's.
There may be some medically indicated exceptions so I will never say never. The exceptions must be safe and rare.
As to the argument that it is just a little bit of unnecessary skin, well, so is my vestigal little toe. If custom decreed that it be lopped off at birth, I would never have missed it. After all, what has it ever done for me besides getting fungus from time to time? (Now the big toe. That's like the captain of the toes. Totally different story)
John Henry
Belle17 said...
I truly did NOT interpret the judge's comment about this sentence being a death warrant as anything other than what she has said all throughout the hearing, which is that Nassar's sentence is longer than his natural life will ever be."
That was not my interpretation. Is it still true that child molesters are at the absolute bottom of the prison hierarchy, despised even by murderers and rapists? That's what I always heard was the case, and if it is, then his life is in danger from other inmates and the judge knows that.
On a gut level, I feel hanging is too good for the scumbag, but the law is not supposed to be about feelings.
As MayBee put it: "But...we shouldn't have a legal system that winks at people in jail being killed by other inmates"
It's like a judge telling a criminal during sentencing that he's gonna be somebody's bitch. While the criminal might be a terrible excuse for a human being, it has always bothered me that prison rape is a source of amusement for many people. Men who have committed non-violent crimes get raped in prison too. I'm pretty sure that that falls under "cruel and unusual punishment" but it doesn't seem to bother many people.
The law is part of the entertainment industry, apparently.
Dear JH,
I won't get into it with you on the merits etc. You do what you want. I merely beg, no, I insist, I fucking demand, is there anything stronger than demand, that you not interfere with the sacraments of my religion. Not negotiable.
How does MSU escape Penn State style culpability?
I understand pedophiles don't do well in prison. The doctor is probably going to learn about sexual abuse from the victim's perspective.
Spaceman said...
Judge talked for a yawning 45 minutes - sounded more like a #meToo speech than a sentencing hearing. Threw in her grandparents were immigrants and came to America to find a better place to live for their children.
Unacceptable.
Re: exiledonmainstreet:
While the criminal might be a terrible excuse for a human being, it has always bothered me that prison rape is a source of amusement for many people. Men who have committed non-violent crimes get raped in prison too. I'm pretty sure that that falls under "cruel and unusual punishment" but it doesn't seem to bother many people.
I've never heard of a judge making menacing reference to prison rape at a sentencing, but there are a fair number of politicians who joke about particularly hated criminals getting raped (e.g. around the time of the financial crash, some politicians joked about bank executives getting sentenced to prison where they would be raped). It's repellent, but in our favour, I feel like the frequency with politicians joke about that has declined.
Sure sounds like Judge Rose Aquilina (another wise Latina) is signaling to the officials in Ionia that this guy needs to be in Gen Pop and to the M-13 bros that everyone will be looking the other way. That's the way the death penalty is imposed South of the Border by our moral superiors.
I know next to nothing about this case, but now I'm starting to have sympathy for the doctor. Don't doctors look at and touch their patients' naked bodies as a normal part of their important work? I'm not sure exactly what he's accused of doing, but he apparently touched them while the parents were present and the girls were cloaked, as part of medically necessary treatments.
Who would publicly aid or defend a man accused of child sexual molestation, even one who is a doctor who helped many people throughout his career, especially during this Great Reckoning?
Re: robother:
Sure sounds like Judge Rose Aquilina (another wise Latina) is signaling to the officials in Ionia that this guy needs to be in Gen Pop and to the M-13 bros that everyone will be looking the other way. That's the way the death penalty is imposed South of the Border by our moral superiors.
Let's not go too far here . . . I don't think she was purposefully sending that signal. I think what she said was inappropriate for a judge at sentencing, but I don't think she was suggesting that someone should rid us of that turbulent priest. Doctor. Whatever.
If There's an appeal, the sentence should be vacated and the case remanded for resentencing by a different judge. As was done in the Chicago 8 trial.
Bad Lieutenant said...
Dear JH,
"I won't get into it with you on the merits etc. You do what you want. I merely beg, no, I insist, I fucking demand, is there anything stronger than demand, that you not interfere with the sacraments of my religion. Not negotiable."
If the sacraments of your religion involve mutilating children, maybe you need to rethink your religious convictions.
Darkisland said...
"There may be some medically indicated exceptions so I will never say never. The exceptions must be safe and rare."
Well, the interesting thing is that there is considerable evidence that male circumcision greatly lowers the rate of genital cancer. In the women they have sex with. So how does that fit into your criteria?
The judge also said this:
"Our Constitution does not allow for cruel and unusual punishment," she said. "If it did, I have to say, I might allow what he did to all of these beautiful souls -- these young women in their childhood -- I would allow someone or many people to do to him what he did to others."
----
Which is similarly unacceptable.
I have to say, all the outrage on this thread strikes me as ridiculous. This guy molested a bunch of little girls, apparently while a bunch of adults looked the other way. That is certainly disgusting, but people do worse things every day, and they don't get 145 years in prison. Molesting little girls is bad, but raping and killing them is worse. Happens every day. Every day. This is all a bunch of virtue-signaling.
Killing married women greatly reduces the rate of husbands being murdered by their wives.
Disaster porn.
Under the case law, it would be unconstitutional. (And the statute would need to provide for it.)
There are numerous precedents to override the constitution for social progress when there is sufficient pretext at the twilight fringe. Aborting a rape-rapist may qualify, depending on his affiliation, or standing in polite company.
If the sacraments of your religion involve mutilating children, maybe you need to rethink your religious convictions.
1/24/18, 3:05 PM
After 4000 years, I don't think the Jews are going to "rethink" circumcision.
Balfegor: "I don't think she was purposefully sending that signal."
"I just signed your death warrant" sure sounds like a signal to me. I never heard of any judge, even when sentencing a murderer to life without parole, say that. Officials in the criminal justice system are like Mafia chieftains. They know how to push a button on someone without saying it in so many words.
ErictFB wrote:FROM THE SECOND LINK: "It is my honor and privilege to sentence you,” she said, and noting the length of the sentence, added, “I just signed your death warrant."
Balfegor: Did I miss your apology for calling me "obtuse" or should I just assume you are a dick?
Anyone who advocates for circumcision should be in jail. That's hate speech aimed at newborns. Penile cancer prevention? Rubbish. Remove your testicles and you'll never face testicular cancer. Remove your breasts and you won't get breast cancer. Remove your tongue and I won't have to listen to your nonsense.
Anyone who advocates for circumcision should be in jail.
Jailing people for saying something you don't agree with.
How progressive.
How about you remove your head?
Trouble is, parents themselves count among the chief abusers of their children, if only because of their smothering and hovering, male sexual mutilation, and inculcating of their religious superstitions. As bad a public education is, at least it gets kids relief from the oppressive influence of their parents.
You were beaten as a child, weren't you?
RE: Livermoron:
Balfegor: Did I miss your apology for calling me "obtuse" or should I just assume you are a dick?
Feel free to assume I'm a dick. "Death warrant" is not a phrase that is in any way consistent with "you'll die a natural death in jail." Who calls that a "death warrant"?? A death warrant is for an execution.
I have a huge problem is with bigtime sports in general. I think it verges on child abuse to let one's child get so consumed by sports that this is all they do to the point of not getting an education.
And you wonder why the Asians kick our butts in the STEM majors...
Tens of thousands women wearing pussy hats have apparently devoted their lives to proving the 19th Amendment a grave mistake, and now we have another woman who seeks to prove females are too dominated by emotion to embrace a civilized judicial temperament. If Japan's pilots were as fanatically suicidal as these #MeToo feminists we'd have lost WWII.
Regarding big sports - it's actually a catch 22. College is so expensive, that American parents push their kids into sports so at least part of tuition is paid. I have some nieces and nephews who play hockey / football / basketball, and it's either a better name school with a sports scholarship, or community college part time and work full time.
I went that second route myself, and have no regrets whatsoever. That doesn't mean the college system in this country isn't a racket to rival the mafia back in the day.
exiledonmainstreet said...
If the sacraments of your religion involve mutilating children, maybe you need to rethink your religious convictions.
1/24/18, 3:05 PM
After 4000 years, I don't think the Jews are going to "rethink" circumcision.
1/24/18, 3:24 PM
No. We're not.
Look at it this way if you must. Would a patriarchal religion, one which requires its orthodox members to thank their Creator daily for not making them a woman, universally mandate for its male members such a horrible procedure as you make it out to be?
My equipment works just fine, for me and for the ladies I share it with. Your erectile dysfunction or whatever is your own problem and has nothing to do with your infant circumcision.
There's really nothing to talk about. Do what you're going to do. Which is nothing.
Re: Jupiter:
I have to say, all the outrage on this thread strikes me as ridiculous. This guy molested a bunch of little girls, apparently while a bunch of adults looked the other way. That is certainly disgusting, but people do worse things every day, and they don't get 145 years in prison. Molesting little girls is bad, but raping and killing them is worse. Happens every day. Every day. This is all a bunch of virtue-signaling.
Sure it's empty virtue-signalling, but you know, just as hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue, empty virtue-signalling is how we signal that some things just aren't right. And judges making sinister allusions to "death warrants" when they sentence a sex offender to jail (where he will be a target) is right up there with politicians joking about prison rape among things that just aren't right.
Also, 145 years in prison for molesting children seems fine to me -- I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. Saying "you'll rot in prison" seems . . . well, actually I think that would be kind of inappropriate for a judge to say too, but I don't have the same intense gut reaction to it.
It seems others (including our hostess) did not have the same initial reaction to the use of the term "death warrant" in sentencing a sex offender to prison, so maybe I'm just overly sensitive to prison abuse issues, but that is literally the first association that came to my mind. And an experienced judge who handles criminal matters is surely not ignorant of that context.
@Darkisland re: male circumcision.
"Scientific research shows clearer health benefits to the procedure than had previously been demonstrated. According to a systematic and critical review of the scientific literature, the health benefits of circumcision include lower risks of acquiring HIV, genital herpes, human papilloma virus and syphilis. Circumcision also lowers the risk of penile cancer over a lifetime; reduces the risk of cervical cancer in sexual partners, and lowers the risk of urinary tract infections in the first year of life," the group said."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/27/health/circumcision-policy/index.html
There are numerous other links/studies regarding the benefits to male circumcision.
The judge deserves significant censure for that comment. It's overtly untrue, but if it becomes de facto correct (if this man does not die a natural death in prison) she has set up the stage for a nasty lawsuit.
She should pay a price for this posturing. That is not a judge's job. If she wanted a career in drama she should have opted for that career.
The literal meaning of a death warrant is a legal order for execution. A judge should know that! A judge seated on the judicial bench while handing down a sentence does not use that term casually.
Balfegor said...
RE: Livermoron:
Balfegor: Did I miss your apology for calling me "obtuse" or should I just assume you are a dick?
Feel free to assume I'm a dick. "Death warrant" is not a phrase that is in any way consistent with "you'll die a natural death in jail." Who calls that a "death warrant"?? A death warrant is for an execution.
1/24/18, 3:39 PM
Back to the original topic, yay!
OK, well, Occam's Razor says she was just talking loosely, Balfegor. After all, he was already going to prison for a long time. If he were going to be shivved, presumably it would happen sooner rather than later. Her extended sentencing of the man would presumably not speed this up, unless you think otherwise.
It would, however, seem to ensure that, even as a very old man, he would never leave prison, i.e., he would surely die in jail. "Death warrant" does not come into it if speaking precisely, but in a loose sense of "you will die in our custody" it is true enough.
It is a fairly noxious remark, but I don't think you need to take it to heart in quite the way you clearly have.
My brother, who is not Jewish, is circumcised and had his sons circumcised for the reasons listed by Humperdink.
If you do not want to have your sons circumcised, that is your right and your business. If you want to have your sons snipped, that if your right and your business. Why do the anti- circ people feel that it is their business to dictate to others?
And don't tell me "because it's like female circumcision." No, it's not close.
"I just signed your death warrant."
I am 100 percent ok with this.
Re the circumcision thang - the studies that have been done show that circumcision has real health benefits:
http://www.auanet.org/guidelines/circumcision
https://www.aafp.org/about/policies/all/neonatal-circumcision.html
There is really strong evidence that male circumcision is protective against many viral STIs in the US. Over time, incidence of male circumcision has dropped. By studying incidence rates in communities with high rates of circumcision versus those with lower rates, the lower incidence rates for disease observed in Africa and globally was confirmed. In addition, it turns out that hospitalizations/severe UTIs in male neonates are massively correlated with lack of circumcision.
Finally, penile cancer in later life is exceedingly rare in males who have been circumcised. Not so rare in older males who were not circumcised.
Justitia with a pink pussy hat.
Oh, goodie. Another cretin who wants to throw Jews in jail for practicing the same ancient customs they've engaged in for thousands of years.
Time for me to clean that M1 Garand.
TRADITION!!!!
I am guessing the anti-circumcision crowd would OK with it if was performed in the womb, just prior to delivery.
I learned on Usenet to tune out any circumcision discussion.
Blogger Bad Lieutenant said...
"There's really nothing to talk about. Do what you're going to do. Which is nothing."
Nor did I say I was. What I said was that, if your religious sacraments involve mutilating children, maybe you should rethink your religious convictions.
You're kind of touchy about this, aren't you? At present, male circumcision is legal and widely practiced, worldwide as far as I know. So called "female circumcision", which is often a considerably more injurious practice, is also widely practiced, but it is illegal in this country. Do you think that should change? Should Muslims be allowed to mutilate their children in the US because they get huffy if you suggest they shouldn't? What about honor killing? Do you want a religious exemption for that sacrament?
Looks like I need to buy some more 30.06 cartridges!
TRADITION
Here's a nominee for foolish statement of the week.
No compassion for kids who have been traumatized by an MSU employee.
The judge also noted, without details, that Nasser has been treating fellow prisoners, without a license. She said he had to stop. I wonder if taking care of inmates was his way of avoiding the the consequences of being a child molester in jail.
"Should Muslims be allowed to mutilate their children in the US because they get huffy if you suggest they shouldn't?"
Female genital mutilation isn't proscribed in Islam, but a cultural practice in many places where Islam is dominate.
"Regarding big sports - it's actually a catch 22. College is so expensive, that American parents push their kids into sports so at least part of tuition is paid."
If parents took the money that they pay for these sports into a 529, they would have tuition paid for. My daughter does gymnastics, and it is damn expensive, about $7K/year, probably more when you count all the travel costs. At least 90% will not do gymnastics in college. I pay for it because I can, and she loves the sport. I'm under no illusion that it will make college affordable.
At the level most girls compete there is little chance for abuse. There's always lots of people at the gym, including parents keeping an eye. However, when kids go off to the camps, they might not be accompanied by a parent, which will definitely increase the risk, but only a small minority of the girls can attend those.
The Perp Doctor is a monster and deserved the stiff sentence.
Don't like the Judge's comment though. Strikes a discordant note.
But that's just style; on substance, the bastard got what he deserved.
What a sick, sick story this is. And as if this actual story is not already a Horror enough, the comments turn to warped, madcap dialogues re male circumcision?!?
On the actual subject, I DO agree, even the death penalty would be appropriate for this scum of a man, but I'll stay content with a big % of his 40 yr minimum.
But, IMHO, the bigger horror and the as-guilty criminal-offenders are still at large...they are they absolutely SICK parents who showed up in the courtroom to act shocked and surprised......Bullshit. They didn't miss a thing if they were even minimally sentient and responsible - they were willfully complicit in the child abuse done to their own children. Obsessive, ambitious, sick parents. Puke.
Male circumcision does not result in any significant functional change, and it does have material health benefits, especially in periods and places before improved hygienic environments, and today in areas where unhygienic conditions prevail.
So, we're back to friendship with "benefits" (e.g. casting couch relationships), rape vs rape-rape, children deemed unviable, transgender conversion therapy (i.e. surgical, medical, and psychological corruption), progressive liberalism or divergent ideology, and other practices of the Pro-Choice religion. What a society/State establishes it engenders. Debasing human life, conflating logical domains (twilight faith), denying individual dignity ("diversity"), and sexualizing adolescent and prepubescent children has consequences.
BrianE said...
"Female genital mutilation isn't proscribed in Islam, but a cultural practice in many places where Islam is dominate."
I assume you mean "prescribed", and yes, I know that. But a lot of Muslims don't. WHen you tell them not to hack up their female children, they tell you not to interfere with their religious practices.
Late joining here, but has anyone yet mentioned that the parents are hardly innocent here. If Nassar had never touched or looked or even known these girls, the "training" their parents subjected them to was pretty abusive in and of itself. And the sports agencies and Olympics are complicit in this.
It has been pretty clear for a couple of decades now that there should be a mandatory minimum age for gymnastics and ice skating.
there were something like 140+ victim statements.
How can that be allowable?
The evidentiary test for admissibility is relevance. It the statements relevant to the proceeding, then the prosecutor was entitled to introduce them, subject to the defense cross-examining them.
Meanwhile, this obsession here with babies' penises is rather creepy itself. What the hell business is it for you all to even be thinking of penises of babies that are not your own?
I do not agree with jailing parents for male circumcision, but I think that it is utter bullshit not to term it genital mutilation. And I do not trust the "research" about its health benefits either. It's a Jewish tradition dating from Yahweh's bloodthirsty days, and of course they don't want to give it up. But as a circumcised male, I bitterly resent such a decision being made about my body without my consent, to appease someone else's deity. I didn't circumcise my son, and he seems to be enjoying intact life after thirty years. They got to my grandson before I could say anything.
Apparently at some point there was a Title IX investigation of Dr. Nasser. Seriously?
Come one people - if you think that children are being abused, call the real cops, not the campus gauleiters.
You're kind of touchy about this, aren't you?
You've done it before.
Removing foreskin from a male's penis is mutilation comparable to clipping your nails, except that it does not grow back, or removing an appendix, but far less invasive.
I wonder what women did to maintain hygienic conditions in arid environments.
I live out here in East Lansing and have been hearing about this case quite a bit. I think the judge's comment in this story is weird. I also think the mother's comment is weird. I think a great deal about this case is weird - or rather a great deal has the quality of a kind of primitive blood-questing ritual about it. Don't get me wrong. I am glad to see the creep behind bars and dying in prison. But I have to say the degree of hysteria in the calls around here for the MSU president's head is in line with my feeling this all has a heavy irrational and vicious component. I have no doubt others - including many of the parents - likely saw signs and should have known better and bear some blame. But they were controlled by self-interest, or blind ambition, or some other emotion to look the other way and deny it all. However, all the attacks I've seen have been on the MSU president, yet I have not see one shred of evidence she knew anything about it. I have seen very few others in what had to be a very complex, multilayered chain of command put under such scrutiny other than the president. In going after her, I believe the community is coalescing in absolutely typical fashion around the search for a scapegoat sacrificial substitute for all their other failings that led to this - the biggest failing of all being the way universities have been totally corrupted by their money-generating sports programs.
So, what is it that comes first? The rabies-like derangement and then the anti-circumcision belief, or is it the anti-circumcision belief that causes all of these types to come off as bat-shit loons?
So you favor banning college football?
Yes, actually. Major League Baseball does very well, thank you, with its own minor leagues and without treating colleges as their sole source of rookies. No more fake classes for scholarship athletes nor college athletes who can scarcely sign their own name. I don’t see how it could come to pass, however. Too much tied up in alumni bragging rights.
Big Mike, just to add to my own comment above, I agree wholeheartedly with you. I long ago became incapable of paying any attention to or caring about college sports. Perhaps it was after the NCAA went after the Shoe Box for giving some athletes a discount on their shoes or something. This heinous crime was big news, while the top coaches and athletics bureaucrats get the highest salaries in the university. All off the unpaid talents of athletes most of whom will leave college with nothing, not even a decent education. It is a glorified form of slavery - like the Ottoman's Janissary slave solders. Yeah, there is glory in it, and then the ash heap.
Jon Burack nails it.
Read this and weep: http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/22046031/michigan-state-university-doctor-larry-nassar-surrounded-enablers-abused-athletes-espn
I think professional level competitive sports, and that goes double for the Olympics, is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. And a huge number of people have been hoodwinked into thinking sports are not only harmless fun, but noble and uplifting.
What does the title quote mean? Sports moms are hard-core at spotting red flags? It's easy to hide red flags from sports moms because they're so hard-core? The red flags were hidden, and here's something else that I know: sports moms are hard-core?
That and the death warrant quote make me think that this judge does not speak clearly.
"Read this and weep: http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/22046031/michigan-state-university-doctor-larry-nassar-surrounded-enablers-abused-athletes-espn"
Whoa! That's really horrible.
Freeman - she was clear. That poor woman understood the evil man in front of her all too well. I think she wants him dead, as soon as possible, and as painfully as possible. Who can blame her much for that?: she is a human being, after all.
She herself, that being said, is likely incompetent, of course, and she probably should be disbarred. She won't be, but she probably should be.
On the other hand, I understand her frustration - he deserved the death penalty. The fact that he was not given the death penalty is a sign that we live in an uncivilized society. She was trying, in her sub-literate way, to express her dissatisfaction with our uncivilized society. I get it - but I also am convinced that judges, of all people, should not speak in a sub-literate way. And if they do, they should no longer have any more influence on our judicial system - even in our uncivilized society - than any other sub-literate citizen has.
Thanks EMyrt. Your link confirms also what I said earlier about how focusing on the MSU president seems a stretch along the lines of a search for a sacrificial victim. A LOT of people covered up for Nassar all along the line - and a lot of parents seemed incredibly blind to what their own kids were experiencing. But I see nothing in the piece that offers evidence it got to Lou Ann Simon's level. In fact the piece suggests a lot of others lower down the chain refused to follow up on matters. So how anyone at the very top of MSU would have known earlier is still beyond me. I say it's who cares about evidence time, let's nail the president to the cross so everyone else can pat themselves on the back and go home to dinner.
Also, if I can elaborate one last time on college sports. I have nothing against college sports per se. IF they admit all their students on the merits and THEN and then only draw on who shows up for practice in assembling teams. In other words, NO recruiting, no scholarships for sports, no favors or special mindless "studies" programs to enable the athlete-hires to pretend to be students, etc. Just like most high schools assemble their teams. From what the student body itself provides. That and that only would make it okay in my book.
Hmm...the chickens finally come home to roost way too late. I had wondered how this was kept secret, but of course it wasn't. It's just that it was convenient to ignore it.
One question: did the the treatments, such as they were, alleviate the girls' athletic injuries? Was this just a 30-year perv fest for this guy, or was there actually some physical benefit to the girls from some part of the treatments? Did that mask the obvious problems?
Did you hear the one about the mohel who didn't charge for circumcisions?
He only took tips.
(Yeah, I know, old joke!)
And yeah, I think it was an Al Franken joke. All the threads circle around and converge.
I see the mob has driven Simon from office. Will it satisfy them? No, sacrifice of substitute scapegoats only does so much. Will the people calling for change actually change a thing? Unlikely. The point of such sacrificial bloodletting is to DEFLECT from real responsibility not to assume it. So, on to the next big thing.
I think Simon had to go. Sure, she may be a sacrificial lamb, but she's the head of the University, the University didn't do enough.
I also got a message from Simon about 3 weeks ago stating that we can be assured nobody at the university *knew* Nassar was abusing victims. It was incredibly tone-deaf. OK, maybe nobody knew, but that didn't mean nobody was told. She's handled this all very poorly.
Good to see the Judge took a grand stand.
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