Althouse: 1965 and 1967 — a comparison.

January 19, 2018

1965 and 1967 — a comparison.

95 comments:

CERDIP said...: Not seeing a hug temporal variation musically. Maybe its the fashion difference you are highlighting...?; 1/19/18, 11:37 AM
CERDIP said...: huge*; 1/19/18, 11:37 AM
tcrosse said...: Judith Durham had a nice solo career in Australia after the Seekers broke up.; 1/19/18, 11:41 AM
Heartless Aztec said...: Great Michael Nesmith tune. Big difference between 1965 and 1967. Time moved faster back then.; 1/19/18, 11:41 AM
Roughcoat said...: Not so different. Same feel to both, with Different Drum serving as a thematic sequel to Another You. Good songs, well arranged and well performed. Despite all the shit that was going down in 65-67 it was a more innocent time and these two song reflect that innocence. Very refreshing.

Judith Durham is still performing, still sounds good.; 1/19/18, 11:42 AM
Ann Althouse said...: I think the songs are very similar, so that watching one (the 1965 one) made me want to find the second one (which was on the list of suggestions at YouTube, as I'd thought it should be).

I notice a big difference, that has an impact on me because I remember the year to year changes in style and wish there were similar pop culture changes today.

The hair/makeup/fashion in the 1965 video are exactly where I was when I was 14, and I'm highly sensitive to the change in the 2-years-later video. The shoes become flat, the tights go from black to weird green, and the skirt gets shorter. But beyond that, there's much more warmth and passion in Linda Ronstadt's singing, which is striking because the lyrics in her song (written by Monkee Mike Nesmith) are about leaving the lover to follow her own exciting view of where she's got to be going, and she's really happy about it all. The earlier song also imagines an exciting future, but the woman is absolutely dedicated to her alliance with the man.; 1/19/18, 11:44 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "Great Michael Nesmith tune. Big difference between 1965 and 1967. Time moved faster back then."

Yes, you were writing that as I was writing my long comment.

You and I are hearing the same drum.; 1/19/18, 11:45 AM
robother said...: Is the key to this mystery their shoes? I listened to both songs through, and never noticed either pair of shoes. WTF, Ann?; 1/19/18, 11:45 AM
Roughcoat said...: Yes, time did move faster back then. In cultural terms, every year was quite different from the previous one. The music especially, but so much more. Very exciting but hard to negotiate. Mistakes were made, big ones. At least, that's how it shook out for me. I'm reminded of the final scene in The Man Who Would Be King, when Kipling asks Peachy Carnahan whether it was all worth the effort. Like Peachy, I don't have an answer. It's too soon to judge and, anyway, I've got a man to meet at Marwar Junction.; 1/19/18, 11:49 AM
Roughcoat said...: In observance of the rule of threes: I would add "Daydream Believer" to the first two, it fits. Written by the late great John Stewart, a friend from back in the day.; 1/19/18, 11:58 AM
readering said...: LR song written to be sung by a man. But she made it hers.; 1/19/18, 12:04 PM
exhelodrvr1 said...: Judith Durham - what an incredible voice!; 1/19/18, 12:06 PM
Unknown said...: More of an Australia vs USA comparison than 1965 vs 1967.; 1/19/18, 12:06 PM
readering said...: I had a school picture taken every two years 66-68-70. We wore uniforms but the teacher looks changed so much in that period.; 1/19/18, 12:06 PM
readering said...: I think the Seekers look was a Brit look. Same as my school.; 1/19/18, 12:08 PM
Night Owl said...: Young people in the 60s were so earnest. No wonder we 70s kids became such cynical little bastards; it was a backlash effect. We can see the cynicism quickly creeping in...

'65- "I'll Never Find Another You"- Be mine forever.
'67- "Different Drum" - I need my space, man.
'70 - "Love the One You're With"- That was great. What's your name again?; 1/19/18, 12:09 PM
Curious George said...: Althouse: "But beyond that, there's much more warmth and passion in Linda Ronstadt's singing, which is striking because the lyrics in her song (written by Monkee Mike Nesmith) are about leaving the lover to follow her own exciting view of where she's got to be going, and she's really happy about it all."

The song is clearly about a man leaving his female lover, but Ronstadt's version changes "girl" to "boy". "Yes, and I ain't sayin' you ain't pretty."

All the covers are women singing it.; 1/19/18, 12:17 PM
Dagwood said...: Maybe the biggest differences stem from the fact that the first video is of a studio recording, and the second is set up to give the impression of a live performance before a club audience.; 1/19/18, 12:19 PM
Nonapod said...: It's funny how rapidly the music industry moved back then. Bands used to put out like 2 to 3 albums a year, and there'd often be fairy severe musical differences in the same band in just a few years time. The clearest example is the evolution The Beatles sound throughout the 60s.

In contrast, modern music seems so unchanging. Bands will often take 2 or 3 or 5 years or more between albums, and usually there isn't the dramatic changes is style that were common place back in the day. Once a band has established a style, they seem to usually stick with it. I mean, there's some exceptions here and there (Opeth went from a death metal band to a 70s style progressive rock band) but generally modern bands are fairly unvarying.; 1/19/18, 12:25 PM
Leslie Graves said...: I love the orange jumper Judith Durham is wearing. It made me wonder if she just picked it out of her closet in the morning, or whether she was dressed. (It looks like she picked it out herself.); 1/19/18, 12:30 PM
Christy said...: The black tights are back, and have been for some time.; 1/19/18, 12:34 PM
Ken B said...: The Seekers, the original quartet, reformed 15 years ago.; 1/19/18, 12:34 PM
Ken B said...: This is the Seekers in 1967. An interesting comparison considering the comments and conclusions above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4ZipKdI1sY&list=RDEMClER5Zb-stY2NWQThbul1A&index=4; 1/19/18, 12:38 PM
richlb said...: Never knew that Nesmith wrote Different Drum. Cool.

I like the Matthew Sweet/Suzanna Hoffs cover of the song. Her voice is higher and sweeter than Ronstadt's.; 1/19/18, 12:42 PM
alan markus said...: I was ages 13-15 during that time frame. During several of those years my New Year's Eve consisted of listening to the "Top 100" countdown on the radio. Much anticipation of how the songs would line up, and making a list as the songs were played. Todays the Internet makes doing that totally unnecessary.

Speaking of Stone Poneys, I have been listening to Stone Darlings a lot lately - I love what the younger kids are doing with the surf music genre.

Stone Darling - All I Wanna Do

Not so much surf, but more: Stone Darling - Angeline

I like this one - video has film from the 60's - I think that might be Ann in the yellow bikini - New Jersey beach maybe? Stone Darling - We're Through"; 1/19/18, 12:49 PM
Kirk Parker said...: Night Owl --

Rebelution, 2007:

Who can this be, this stranger at my door?
Although I know I've seen her once before
Come on, why can't I remember your name now
But in a way it's best that I don't say:

"It's a pleasure to meet ya
Once again for the night
I can't promise my focus"
Is it me? Or is it my attention span?; 1/19/18, 12:51 PM
Carter Wood said...: The Seekers, 1994, performing at the The AFL Grand Final (Australian rules football).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v22SPtCFck8

Judith Durham looks back over her career. With a very fine fashion look.

http://www.greensburgdailynews.com/opinion/columns/judith-durham-looks-back-at-the-seekers/article_2d6f264a-8fa6-530d-b5fd-64217d37355f.html; 1/19/18, 12:53 PM
traditionalguy said...: After 1964 he drug culture exploded overnight. And songs to an alliance with her ONE man became so limiting for a Summer of Love. The lifetime commitments ideal had suddenly become 3 month flings using the new birth control pills, if you were lucky. Meanwhile LBJ's Great Asian land War was reving up faster and faster.

I blame it all on the ease with which the CIA's covered up their JFK slaughter. What couldn't we be told that we wanted next.; 1/19/18, 12:59 PM
robother said...: It's a guy's song, but that's what made it stand out when Ronstadt sang it; kind of a proto-boomer feminist thing.

As a guy's song, its just an early version of Meatloaf: "let me sleep on it, I'll give you an answer in the morning."; 1/19/18, 1:07 PM
Luke Lea said...: nice !; 1/19/18, 1:08 PM
who-knew said...: I also saw the difference in lyrics, from commitment to individuality. I've always loved Linda Rondstadt's voice but Judith Durham was a revelation, beautiful. Hoffs and Sweet have put out two cover albums with music from the 60s and 70s respectively. I highly recommend both of them. Poor Linda, though, how long before her name is dragged through the mud for the cultural appropriation of the big hoop earrings.; 1/19/18, 1:10 PM
Etienne said...: Ronstadt was a screamer, while Judith had a range and could modulate, wonderful to listen too. Linda wore your ears out. Both are quite funny and interesting in person. Just different singing styles.; 1/19/18, 1:11 PM
David53 said...: Janis Joplin was a screamer.
Ronstadt was not a screamer.
Sorry about your ears.; 1/19/18, 1:22 PM
Roughcoat said...: I blame it all on the ease with which the CIA's covered up their JFK slaughter.

Yeah, and how 'bout those fake moon landings?; 1/19/18, 1:23 PM
Anonymous said...: Thanks for the walk down memory lane. I'd forgotten how much I liked Linda Ronstadt. And what beauty. I sat and watched another 20 minutes of her videos and couldn't take my eyes off her beautiful brown eyes.; 1/19/18, 1:31 PM
Anonymous said...: Ronstadt had/has a big ol' voice but a screamer she's not.; 1/19/18, 1:32 PM
traditionalguy said...: Roughcoat...It's time to grow up about the JFK assassination teams. Trump just released the super secret files.

The moon landings were fun to watch 5 years later, and did no one any harm. Too bad they forgot how it was so easily done for the next 50 years.; 1/19/18, 1:32 PM
David said...: Two magnificent female voices. They made Judith sing in chorus with the guys but it was still all about her. Linda was featured. That alone is a difference. But wonderful voices, terrific performances.

I was just at the age to fall in love with either of these fabulous women, and it seems I still am.; 1/19/18, 1:37 PM
Jerry Goedken said...: We saw the Stone Ponies live at Upper Iowa U in about 1967. Ms Ronstadt broke my friend's heart that night. She was a siren for college boys. Thanks for the memory.; 1/19/18, 1:45 PM
Ann Althouse said...: “It's a guy's song, but that's what made it stand out when Ronstadt sang it; kind of a proto-boomer feminist thing. ”

As with “Respect,” the sex change adds substance.

One that workd the other way that I have always loved is Sinatra singi” Someone to Watch Over Me.”; 1/19/18, 1:53 PM
madAsHell said...: The shoes become flat, the tights go from black to weird green, and the skirt gets shorter.

Color TV's saturated the market place during that same time frame.; 1/19/18, 1:59 PM
eddie willers said...: Thanks for the tip on The Stone Darlings.

I'm listening to their version of Long Black Veil from their website as I write this.; 1/19/18, 2:08 PM
David Blaska said...: Yes, quite a difference in approach. The Seekers 1965 were closer to the folkie movement which was exhausting itself at that point. Sang as a group. The Lettermen, Peter Paul & Mary. The We Five. By 1967, the featured singer out front, like Janis Joplin, Roger Daltrey, Grace Slick. Different Drummer, tho, almost a Dylan song with its wordiness.; 1/19/18, 2:15 PM
gilbar said...: I was going to post: "Wow Linda Ronstadt used to sound good,
then I realized it was Judith Durham and it all made much more sense; 1/19/18, 2:18 PM
Anonymous said...: Linda had a powerful voice and she did not have to strain. So its not "sweet" and she's "screaming" To each his own. She melted my heart for the entire 1970s and recorded some beautiful music - well produced and very listenable. I will always put her at the top.; 1/19/18, 2:39 PM
Rabel said...: Rocking the bangs!; 1/19/18, 2:41 PM
The Drill SGT said...: The Seekers sang in that folk-pop niche

Ronstadt was in a slightly different slot. folk rock sure, but some of her stuff was deeply country.; 1/19/18, 2:43 PM
Rick.T. said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/19/18, 2:45 PM
Rick.T. said...: Speaking of Michael Nesmith, I'm not sure everybody knows his mother invented Liquid Paper:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bette_Nesmith_Graham; 1/19/18, 2:46 PM
Bob_R said...: Styles may change, but Abbey Road will always be a great sounding studio. Today, they have a better mixing desk and a 2" tape recorder that will do more tracks, but they will be using the same mics that they did in 1965. Recording technology hit its sonic peak in about 1968. It's much easier now, and that's great, but one of the it doesn't sound any better, and it usually sounds a little worse.; 1/19/18, 2:52 PM
Anonymous said...: I don't think Linda is wearing ANY shoes in the second video. She was known for performing barefoot, at least in the early days.; 1/19/18, 2:54 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: I was always a Rondstadt fan. Saw her live at some point. But really preferred Judith Durham here. It seemed more female overtones to male singing, and not, as with Rondstadt a female soloist with male backup. Looking back, so much of the music then was a bunch of guys singing, or maybe, but much less often, a bunch of girls singing. The Seekers actually blended the male and female voices, giving the song a warmer, to me, feel.

As for fashion - I am several months older than Ann, and was one year ahead of her in school, and about the only thing that we noticed, as guys, was that the hair was maybe getting a little longer. But looking back to my HS graduation photo - you really couldn’t tell from it whether I had graduated in 1962, or 1968 or 1969. That close cropped, groomed look. Fashion was for the girls. We mostly didn’t even notice it. My dress was fairly constant throughout HS (Levi’s, button down shirt, roughout cowboy boots). Not all that different from today, except that I have mostly replaced the boots with sneakers. It was really only about 1970 or so that we (my next brother and I) had moved to long hair.

Used to think that the girls were absolutely crazy. They all seemed to go blond, and were ironing their hair. And all that shrieking over pop stars made no sense whatsoever. Of course, the ironed hair is generational. And maybe regional - CO was probably closer to the beaches in S CA, than Pickadelli Square, both geographically, and in spirit. My mother curled hers when younger, as did my partner, who is 7 years younger than I. Still does it to this day when we go out. She probably would have loved being in my class in school, where her absolutely straight blond hair was the rage.; 1/19/18, 3:02 PM
M Jordan said...: I saw Ronstadt live in ‘73 as warmup to Graham Nash and Stephen Stills (I think. Coulda been Crosby). I was not all that familiar with her at that point and thought her pretty good, too good to be the second billing. But Nash was awesome that night and said something that completely matched an epiphany I had recently had. He said he was just learning the piano and it was blowing his mind how everything he had done on guitar was now laid out in front of him.

Music meets math at the keyboard. It’s a beautiful thing.; 1/19/18, 3:12 PM
The Drill SGT said...: 1971

https://www.bing.com/search?q=youtube+carly+simon&PC=U316&FORM=CHROMN; 1/19/18, 3:15 PM
TWW said...: Different Drum...written by Michael Nesmith of the Monkeys.; 1/19/18, 3:19 PM
JLScott said...: Amazing harpsichord and string section. Despite their absence they managed to fill the room with sound; 1/19/18, 3:23 PM
Oso Negro said...: I would say the real point of inflection for popular music was 1968. Things were a whole lot darker from then on. To me, it is as obvious as the change in European art post-WWI; 1/19/18, 3:26 PM
Heartless Aztec said...: @Althouse: Here's a lovely cover by Linda and Ann Savoy of a song that I'm guessing you liked from back in our day: "Walk Away Renee".
https://youtu.be/sSXfMQuiqwg; 1/19/18, 3:28 PM
Martin said...: No one commenting on the "contrast" that struck me--in 1965 the woman was pledging her total devotion and loyalty, even dependence to her one true love. In 1967, the woman is breaking up with the man, not because he is bad or did anything wrong, but she wants independence rather than commitment.

Keep in mind that The Feminine Mystique was published in 1963.; 1/19/18, 3:32 PM
Patrick Henry was right! said...: Love Linda Ronsdadt's National Anthem in Dodger Stadium for the 1977 World Series. Starts off a little hesitant but finishes very strong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MbkSrK5spM&feature=share; 1/19/18, 3:36 PM
madAsHell said...: The Seekers were recorded on film. Linda Ronstadt was captured on color video.; 1/19/18, 3:46 PM
James said...: Linda,
https://youtu.be/hd8R18MpFLU; 1/19/18, 3:46 PM
bonkti said...: I saw Ronstadt, along with Kris Kristofferson, Country Joe and the Fish, and some others at Dane County Coliseum in the spring of '73. Kristofferson performed early and perhaps Ronstadt was the featured, last act. As she performed, a shitfaced Kristofferson staggered back onto stage and started pawing at Linda, who gamely tried to push him off while holding onto the song. He'd stagger back, regroup, and come at her again.

She came off as poised and good-natured. So, before Me Too.; 1/19/18, 3:47 PM
MacMacConnell said...: All one needs do is look at images of women attending Seven Sisters' universities ( women's Ivy League ) tasteful attire in 1965 to Hillary Rodham's clown pants post 1967.; 1/19/18, 3:50 PM
Kate said...: Linda did an album of mariachi music in Spanish, Songs for my Father. That booming chest voice of hers was almost too much for the material.

I remember reading that she had to study head voice for Pirates of Penzance and it was uncomfortable for her. She gave operetta a game try, but it didn't suit her.

I think of her every time I hear the name "Governor Moonbeam".; 1/19/18, 4:04 PM
alan markus said...: @ Martin: Keep in mind that The Feminine Mystique was published in 1963.

The year Lesley Gore recorded "You Don't Own Me"; 1/19/18, 4:06 PM
Mark said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/19/18, 4:08 PM
Mark said...: Great Michael Nesmith tune

Is that a George Martin influence from the baroque section in "In My Life" and the general orchestration?; 1/19/18, 4:10 PM
Mark said...: And then a different comparison as Bobbie Gentry popped up on YouTube after these videos.
https://youtu.be/rNB8AKMdqiQ; 1/19/18, 4:21 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: Almost anything Linda Ronstadt was outstanding. She was so versatile, solo or duets, trios, all wonderful. I loved her Songs for My Father, she sounded like a natural. I also loved her compilation album she did with Emmy Lou Harris, The Western Wall, the Tuscan Sessions. She did a beautiful song with Phoebe Snow, I particularity liked, The Married Man.

The Married Man

I had a jumper like the orange one worn by Judith Durham, only in ivory.; 1/19/18, 4:32 PM
RBE said...: Fashion was as much fun throughout the 60's for both men and women. People still dressed up, every day. You didn't go out in flannel pajamas, etc. The style changes were so much fun from the teased up bouffants to the thick bags and long straight hair. The hemlines went up and down and the fabrics were rich and colorful...from my madras shorts to my velvet mini-skirt! There has not been an era in my lifetime as fun as far as my wardrobe or musical influences as the 60's.; 1/19/18, 4:42 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: And Blue Bayou, a gorgeous song. It’s so sad that Ronstadt no longer sings due to Parkinson’s, she was an amazing singer.; 1/19/18, 4:43 PM
fizzymagic said...: The differences are not from the dates, but from the skills of the vocalists. Judith Durham has a nice tone, but she sings the song exactly on the beat, with pretty much no musical expression at all. Linda Ronstadt, on the other hand, is living that song.

In other words, the differences are mainly a result of the fact that Linda Ronstadt is a vastly better artist than Judith Durham..; 1/19/18, 4:48 PM
RBE said...: I just read the article links and watched other videos by The Seekers...wow they were so good! Totally underappreciated by me.; 1/19/18, 5:04 PM
Leora said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 1/19/18, 5:05 PM
dustbunny said...: Roughcoat: great Michael Caine glasses on the bass player, years before Caine became Peachy Carnahan; 1/19/18, 5:05 PM
Inga...Allie Oop said...: Oh yes, Forgot about the Aaron Nevile and Linda Ronstadt duets. Their voices alone are amazing, but together, wow just beautiful.; 1/19/18, 5:11 PM
Bad Lieutenant said...: I think of her every time I hear the name "Governor Moonbeam".

From Truly Tasteless Jokes:

Why does Linda Ronstadt sing so slow?

Because she has a governor on her.; 1/19/18, 5:22 PM
George M. Spencer said...: Back around '72, Rolling Stone ran profiles of Ronstadt and Maria Muldaur in the same issue.

In the Muldaur profile she complained that her manager wouldn't let her sing songs with saucy lyrics.

In the Ronstadt article she talked about fantasizing about having sex with priests.

It was pretty obvious from reading those articles which one was going to be a huge star.

And, fyi, there's a great HBO 1980 Ronstadt concert on YouTube.; 1/19/18, 5:42 PM
Etienne said...: Judith Durham has a nice tone, but she sings the song exactly on the beat, with pretty much no musical expression at all.

Interesting interpretation. It should be remembered though, that the Seekers were a Folk Music band, and Ronstadt was a Pop Singer. In Pop you can do whatever gets you on the radio. Except for Georgie Girl, I never heard the Seekers on the AM radio. Mostly they were on FM at night. Right after Champagne Music.; 1/19/18, 5:54 PM
mikesixes said...: It's more fauxkies vs. popsters than '65 vs. '67; 1/19/18, 6:10 PM
Njall said...: I was born in 1966, so the difference - is me.; 1/19/18, 6:25 PM
Bill said...: I think Ronstadt recorded DD in one take.; 1/19/18, 6:58 PM
jpg said...: I haven't read all the comments so sorry if some has beat me to it, but Linda Ronstandt is a CULTURAL APPROPRIATOR !!! of hoop earrings. Jpg; 1/19/18, 7:26 PM
Josephbleau said...: Difference is simple, Linda found wrong man, other girl did not.; 1/19/18, 7:58 PM
William said...: I followed Linda from vinyl to tape to cd to playlist. I only truly loved The Seekers on vinyl. Their moment passed. Linda was a woman for all venues and for all genres and for all the pahaes of your life........Her song is so moving and tragic because you would want to be with her forever.........I wouldn't be a but surprised if Lada Gaga of Taylor Swift are evolving and changing with the times and someone notices and thinks it's a big deal.; 1/19/18, 9:48 PM
David Wharton said...: Lovely Althousian post. Thank you.; 1/19/18, 10:21 PM
Moondawggie said...: Roughcoat, I'd vote for "Never Goin' Back" by John Stewart as the third offering in the trio. There was a great Lovin' Spoonful cover of it in ~1969, and it's right in line with Linda's take on relationships in DD.; 1/19/18, 11:56 PM
Ryan said...: Second sing seems to by lip synced. Example, around 2:00 bass is playing but all you hear are invisible strings.; 1/20/18, 12:37 AM
Ryan said...: Linda Ronstadt had a double chin in the 60s, was super hot in the 80s, then turned into a whale. But that voice...; 1/20/18, 12:41 AM
Ryan said...: Hey Althouse how about a little love for the late Dolores O'Riordian?; 1/20/18, 1:06 AM
Unknown said...: The Seekers sound is representative of the folk sound of the early 60's with acoustic guitar and mixed harmonies, with lead vocal and backing vocals.

The Rondstadt / Stone Poneys sound is electric based with full intrumentation, strings, harpsicord, and only the solo vocal.

Even though the Seekers video simulates to be the live recording, there's other instruments on the track that are not shown which ruin the illusion that you are watching a live taping.

The Stone Poneys video is similar because the sound is the studio produced recording.; 1/20/18, 5:36 PM
Cato said...: I have been reading this blog for more years than I can remember. This is a great post. The Seekers' song is one of my favorites. Linda's not so much. I saw her on Broadway in the Pirates of Penzance, FWIW.; 1/20/18, 6:28 PM
readering said...: Only time I saw LR perform live was on Broadway--as Mabel in The Pirates of Penzance! A dish. But the most remarkable parts of the show were an athletic Kevin Kline as the Pirate King and George Rose stealing the show as Maj. Gen. Stanley. You can catch the film version.; 1/20/18, 6:35 PM
Meade said...: David said...
Two magnificent female voices. They made Judith sing in chorus with the guys but it was still all about her. Linda was featured. That alone is a difference. But wonderful voices, terrific performances.

I was just at the age to fall in love with either of these fabulous women, and it seems I still am.
---------------------------------------

I know the feeling. In 1958, at 4, I was just at the age to fall in love with Annette Kleinbard. And I did, yes I did.; 1/23/18, 11:06 AM