"... and Democratic opposition to clear a major obstacle in the GOP’s quest to pass large-scale tax cuts. The budget legislation authorizes special procedures that will allow Republicans to reduce federal revenue over the coming decade by as much as $1.5 trillion without Democratic help. Its adoption launches what GOP leaders hope will be several weeks of intense legislating, culminating in House passage before Thanksgiving.... A key holdout bloc consisted of Republican lawmakers from states with high local tax burdens, who have resisted the GOP’s plan to eliminate or at least scale back the income-tax deduction for state and local taxes.... "
WaPo.
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६३ टिप्पण्या:
I don't know enough to know if this is good or bad. I think they are bringing back DACA in this bill?
But apparently they have smoking gun evidence now of Obama's administration stiffing conservative groups because of their politics.
So it's time for the "squirrel!" from various parties, naturally.
--Vance
I read the high tax state holdouts on the budget as a positive for the tax package. Why stage a symbolic gesture when you could vote a meaningful no later?
Man I sure could use that doubling of the personal deduction.
Fuck those high-tax state Republicans and Democrats. Go to your own statehouse and tell them to get their budget under control. I'm tired subsidizing your state taxes.
High-tax-state holdouts. Sounds like a political thing. Republicans may not mind, but they don't want to have to explain it to their constituents, and it passed the House anyhow.
I'd rather read about Harvey than changes to the tax laws.
I'm old enough to remember when the GOP pretended to care about the deficit.
High tax states like CA, NY, NJ all voted for Clinton anyway.
I'm old enough to remember when the GOP pretended to care about the deficit.
Pretend being the operative word.
"I read the high tax state holdouts on the budget as a positive for the tax package"
What Republicans are those? Aside from Ed Royce, I can't think of any from California.
"when the GOP pretended to care about the deficit."
The only way to get at the deficit is to grow the economy enough to pay for the welfare state while we cut it down to size.
I know. I don't think it's possible either.
Mike said...
I'm old enough to remember when the GOP pretended to care about the deficit.
Nobody cares what democrats or their voters think anymore. You are all disingenuous amoral losers who don't believe a singe thing you say and only care about power over other people. Democrats clearly don't care about the deficit so anything you say about it is going to be completely ignored like everything else.
Have fun in the political wilderness for the remaining 7 years of the Trump administration while we throw the corrupt leadership of the democrat party in jail for colluding with Russia to influence the election among other things.
They will bankrupt this government if it's the last thing they do! Moar debt! Moar debt!
And aren't they as boring and predictable as politicians come! Homage to the aristocracy, piling up debt and fighting. That's really all they're good at. If you like pointless conflict, piling up debt, and genuflecting to someone a few hundred or thousand times wealthier than yourself, then the Republican Party has a place for you!
What Republicans are those? Aside from Ed Royce, I can't think of any from California.
None from CA. Most from NY and NJ: Roll Call 589
More ways Trump is winning: Trump turns every Democrat into a deficit hawk.
You are all disingenuous amoral losers
Name one thing you ever won at.
If only wearing wife-beaters porch loitering were a competitive sport.
The vast majority of the country agree with the left and Keynesian economics - which is the opposite of what the bootlicking Republicans are doing. But no matter, the last time you used words like "Keynesian" or "economics" in a sentence was when you cribbed some notes from the classmate of yours who went on to out-earn you by several orders of magnitude following graduation.
Have fun in the political wilderness for the remaining 7 years of the Trump administration while we throw the corrupt leadership of the democrat party in jail for colluding with Russia to influence the election among other things.
So I want you to level with me here...
What's your ideal peyote to steroids self-medicating regimen ratio?
I mean, I realize it varies on availability and how much you managed to steal that month to gain an income. But we're not talking IRL. We're talking how many grams of psilocybin would you cut up against how many vials of T to inject ass-ward? In an ideal world. One where Republicans take responsibility, are interested in the truth and you can get your hands on as many androgens and mild hallucinogens as you like.
Well, at least no one is excluded. Political congruence is a Democratic moral/legal impulse.
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
They will bankrupt this government if it's the last thing they do! Moar debt! Moar debt!
Obama just had to double the debt because of the evil republicans. Nobody cares what you think because you don't actually believe anything you say.
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
So I want you to level with me here...
What's your ideal peyote to steroids self-medicating regimen ratio?
0 : 0.
They aren't in the budget yet. We are as a family selling some property and closing some sales right now and cleaning up debt. Maybe in a few months.
Every post you prove you can't stand on your principles in good faith.
If the Republicans in Congress can't even figure out how to do tax cuts for the rich ...
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
One where Republicans take responsibility, are interested in the truth and you can get your hands on as many androgens and mild hallucinogens as you like.
Poor TTR. The projection must be how you cope with your entire paradigm splattering against the windshield of reality.
I have been right about everything. Trump won. It was the democrats that colluded with Russia to hide their rigging of their primary. The FBI, IRS and most of the rest of the DC bureaucracy is corrupt.
Losing CA tax decuction will be a large hit for us (my wife and I), Or large by our standards.
Given the CA tax structure, it will be very considerable over @300K income I'm guessing, depending on other factors of course such as personal exemption increase which will shelter it. On very large incomes it will be an increase in effective rate of 4% or so.
Overall effect would be quite "progressive", and the US already has the most progressive tax regime in the OECD, and California more so.
TBD, and as they say, the devil is in the details.
Obama just had to double the debt because of the evil republicans.
Quick! How does someone as ignorant as you, who could never get elected, keep a recession from becoming a depression? How do you manage the economy about which you know nothing?
Nobody cares what you think because you don't actually believe anything you say.
Somebody tell me the last time anyone went, "Achilles! What do you think? I'm really super interested in your retarded opinion!"
Oh, that's right. Never.
The only facts you know are the "alternative" ones that Kellywise Conway fed to you.
I have been right about everything. Trump won. It was the democrats that colluded with Russia to hide their rigging of their primary. The FBI, IRS and most of the rest of the DC bureaucracy is corrupt.
Good thing you're not corrupt!
No, you're pure stupid and paranoid through and through. To the core!
When you run out of target practice items, try shooting up an encyclopedia. Watch the facts disappear in the face of your raw, violent talent for nothing that anybody actually needs.
Every post you prove you can't stand on your principles in good faith.
Every post you prove you know nothing. And care about even less.
You are the antidote to the curse that is knowledge.
State and local taxes should either be deductible or illegal. It seems immoral for a people's government to tax them on their hard-earned money which they can never spend nor save becuase it was already taken by another level of their governments. Then again, democracy. This does point out how stupid it is to vote for tax loving politicians. They want to bill you for your success, and then send you another bill for what they already took. Yea, that seems right for a nation founded on the crime of unfair taxation.
The loss of the tax deduction simply amounts to an increase in the effective top tax rate (mostly), the method being not too relevant.
"The vast majority of the country agree with the left and Keynesian economics -"
Ritmo the poll master.
What a clown.
The loss of the tax deduction simply amounts to an increase in the effective top tax rate
No offense but California has lived off the leaving of the tech billionaires. There has been no effort to control spending for 30 years.
Meanwhile infrastructure has rotted away.
Indeed, California has counted on tax collections from the rich, excessively, as these can be very volatile. Much of it is Capital Gains. So there are extremes of revenues, boom and bust.
This should be a good year for Capital Gains, so disaster won't be yet.
""The vast majority of the country agree with the left and Keynesian economics -"
Probably true, which is why we are all in debt far beyond any scenario - even Keynesian - that could pay it down.
Jonestown, Guiana had a vast majority of believers too.
Mike said:
"I'm old enough to remember when the GOP pretended to care about the deficit."
Sorry Mike, when it's MY government, ITS ALL GOOD!
t’s Even Better than this. They don't need to wait for reform to happen to use the threat of tampering with local deductions to bring the opposition to the table, RINOs and Donorcrats. These aren't stupid people. Never T. had a sound foundation. They knew this was in the cards and they still took the bait. They and O. could have short circuited all this by doing half of what T has promised when they had the chance and the voters would not care now. Instead they put all their cards on Ms. C. and then it was to late and they went bust. nd it gets even better when they realize that deals made about the deduction calculation can end up being area specific. Perhaps looking to get back what the that area has stolen from the other states over a decade or two of abuse of this deduction. Computers are w wonderful things can be used for good on occassion. Party's on. Andrew Jackson returns, destroying both parties and their establishments. Giving them atnleast a decade of standing in their corner waiting for them to behave before letting them sit at the adult table again. Let’s talk about Day Care and tantrums some more. Isn’t interesting how Bannon has the same profile as old AJ.
"The vast majority of the country agree with the left and Keynesian economics -"
Ritmo the poll master.
What a clown.
What's the alternative? You propose they're in favor of the alternative: Trickle-down economics?
You are incapable of basic logic. This isn't a dark room in which you can abuse people for not going along with your idiotic, nonsensical presumptions.
The vast majority of the country believe in the broken window fallacy. Strongly.
What of it?
Failing to do anything on ACA and then turning around and eliminating the medical deduction is going to price even more out of the individual market, as well as infuriate the unsubsidized even more.
The federal debt doubled under President Obama. No one cares.
Debt held by the public more than doubled under President Obama. No one cares.
It makes more sense to complain about the yearly deficit...but no one cares about that, either. It certainly doesn't make sense for the same people calling for nationalized healthcare, nationalized/”free college, " and all the rest of it to complain about the nation taking on more debt.
Now the fact that THIS is what the Repubs finally get their act together for is a pretty big middle finger to current Republican voters, and it is in fact a terrible idea to increase the continuing deficit (and take on trillions more in debt)...but let's not pretend anyone cares for the reasons they should.
Corporate tax deductions should have been easier to sell, but I understand that it isnt.
We tried high taxes and heavy regulation for the 8 Obama years. The result was low growth, reduced employment, and economic stagnation, but the Dems claimed that this was an earthly Paradise. Just for a change, let's try lower taxes and lighter regulation and see what happens. Will deficits go up? They always do, no matter which party is in power (unless the President is named Coolidge), so I expect they will. But if the economy picks up, people will be happy.
"vast majority of the country agree with the left and Keynesian economics -"
Then why the hell didn't the left implement it then? They got the first half right, and then pissed the money away.
I wouldn't have figured you for a Trump supporter, but life is full of suprises.
summery of longhe essence is Bannon and T. will bring all the opposition, RINOs, Donorcrats,almost all of his opposition to the table to negotiate their hair cuts and political costs for the swamp dwellers when their local cost-shifting to others, using the generous deduction of non-federal taxes is threatened. So local politicians can't hide behind sharing the cost of local tax increases with the rest of the nation especially abused in the hard Blue enclaves. So prepare for"win after" win for T. including balanced budgets and large debt reductions.
Note most all the run up in debt is due to this cost shifting where's the Pea? trick. Remove it and there will be little reason to tax people and their enterprise for much more than the services provided to their square acre, including its fraction of the infrastructure not directly funded by the federal government by a vote of congress. and a tiny fraction of the defense budget. Everyhing else can be left to the citizen and their community, the nuclear family, fraternal organizations unions and the enterprise of a free people.
LOL. I don't recognize any "Federal Revenue" as anything but a taking. TaxedEnoughAlready :)
So they’re gonna cut $1.5T over 10 years from a 10 year total of $45T. Mark me down as unimpressed. This is how Empires go bankrupt. Thinking that there’s never an end to the money.
This proposal has quite complex implications, and the results are not to be calculated directly based on current collections, or for that matter current income figures.
A cut in corporate tax is a long desired reform, and this alone will bring considerable changes in recognition of income, of dividend declarations, of equity valuation, and much else. This alone is very hard to predict.
I was tracking CBO revenue analyses and predictions for over a decade (a bit of a hobby once), and the one thing I learned is to put no stock in them. You can rely on their expenditure predictions, but not at all on revenues.
Although I lived in high tax localities for most of my adult life, I’ve always felt that the exemption for state and local taxes was a case of less well-to-do people in low tax, low cost of living localities subsidizing places like Montgomery County, MD, and Fairfax County, Virginia, with their padded county payrolls and gold-plated services. I was grateful for it, mind you, but it was wrong.
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
Good thing you're not corrupt!
No, you're pure stupid and paranoid through and through. To the core!
When you run out of target practice items, try shooting up an encyclopedia. Watch the facts disappear in the face of your raw, violent talent for nothing that anybody actually needs.
It seems you are just stupid and boring.
buwaya said...
The loss of the tax deduction simply amounts to an increase in the effective top tax rate (mostly), the method being not too relevant.
10/26/17, 8:06 PM
What will this do to your average single male IT schlub in New York City making a hundred grand and paying 2000 a month in rent for a one-bedroom?
If they want to reduce federal revenues by $1.5 trillion, let them reduce federal spending by $1.5 trillion as well.
What will this do to your average single male IT schlub in New York City making a hundred grand and paying 2000 a month in rent for a one-bedroom?"
Or Silicon Valley. Both should be grateful taxing imputed income provided by employers such as meals, transportation and personal services isn't on the table.
If Trump and the Republicans want to maximize the pain on the Blue States with the long term goal of shrinking Democrat control of those states they ought to eliminate the tax exempt status of new issued muni bonds going forward. If states and their subdivisions have to pay higher rates to compete with corporate bonds then the issues will be lessen and what is issued will be more for infrastructure that is needed and less for borrowing to cover payrolls and other operating expenses.
It takes a deeply insecure psyche to be as vicious and snarl-prone as TTR. Those are the kind of people I try to avoid hiring at all costs. Masking insecurities with overcompensating vitriol is no way to go through life.
Really hope this spurs people to leave high-tax blue states for more business friendly, redder pastures. Of course, I want the Right people to leave. Let the liberals wallow in the desolation they've created.
and then turning around and eliminating the medical deduction
The medical deduction isn't useful to most people. It's only available if 1) you itemize, 2) if your medical expenses exceed 10% of your AGI, and 3) then you can only take the part that exceeds 10%.
And you generally can't deduct insurance premiums under schedule A (you can deduct them if you're self-employed, but I don't think they're changing that).
If you burn through your deductible then you might be able to deduct a portion of that—but only the part that exceeds 10%, so if your family deductible is $10K and you make $80,000 a year, you can deduct the last $2000 of that if you itemize, and for most people at that income level, taking the standard deduction makes more sense anyway.
It seems you are just stupid and boring.
And you are useless.
The vast majority of the country agree with the left and Keynesian economics - which is the opposite of what the bootlicking Republicans are doing.
Which perfectly explains why the Democrats have been losing state seats at a record pace for the last ten years...oh, wait. No, it doesn't.
Right, Scott McGlasson. They voted for alleviating the tax "burden" on billionaires and hedge-fund managers. Whatever you say.
I did a quick count- there appear to be about 29 or so Republican house members from New York, New Jersey, and California. This block is enough to stop the elimination of the deduction if they vote as a block with the Democrats. They didn't yesterday, and I doubt they will in the future.
The really funny thing is that the politics on this are bit backwards- how many African-Americans and Hispanics itemize? I bet it isn't many.
Had a look at the CA and NY state tax brackets.
If they file taxes in NY (yeah, plenty of them) or CA, the hedge fund managers will not benefit from this. The state income tax deduction is extremely regressive, so getting rid of it is much worse at the top bracket.
It looks like a 3.
What's the alternative? You propose they're in favor of the alternative: Trickle-down economics?
You need to read The Road to Serfdom by Hayek.
jaed said...
The medical deduction isn't useful to most people.
I have only been able to use Schedule A deductions twice. My wife and I bought a house this year, and we can already see that the mortgage interest deduction is of no use to us. Give me a larger standard deduction.
Mike near Seattle said...
If they want to reduce federal revenues by $1.5 trillion, let them reduce federal spending by $1.5 trillion as well.
Congress being responsible; we can dream, can't we?
"What's the alternative? You propose they're in favor of the alternative: Trickle-down economics?"
Got a news flash for ya, Sparky. All economics is trickle down economics.
Ritmo firmly believes, like a peasant, that if someone has more than he does, they stole it from him.
jaed said: you can deduct them if you're self-employed, but I don't think they're changing that
All the reports mention retaining only the deductions for mortgage interest and charitable donations.
Middle aged couples in the individual market are paying $20,000 to $30,000 a year in premiums. For a couple earning $80,000, that is a loss of $12,000 to $22,000 in deductions.
Mike said:
"I'm old enough to remember when the GOP pretended to care about the deficit."
The deficit can be reduced by either (or both) a) reducing spending, and b) increasing governmental revenue. As to item (b), this is not nearly so straight-forward as increasing taxes - many republicans believe that reducing tax levels leads to more income, more spending, and an increase in tax revenues, levels and revenues not being synonymous.
All the reports mention retaining only the deductions for mortgage interest and charitable donations.
Medical insurance for self-employed people isn't a Schedule A deduction. It comes off in the same place that you deduct half of Social Security. I have heard nothing indicating they're changing anything that isn't Schedule A.
jaed: The self-employed can deduct the entirety of their health insurance premiums on the 1040. Others can use Schedule A to deduct only the amount in excess of 10% of their gross earnings.
Is that a lot of people? No. But, these people will be more negatively impacted than those in high-tax areas.
Yes, people who a) spend well in excess of 10% of income on out-of-pocket medical expenses and b) itemize deductions will get hit by this. (How hard depends on how much more than 10% of AGI they spend on OOP expenses. For example, if it's 10% of income plus $2K, not as bad an impact. If it's 10% of income plus 100K, much worse.)
I don't disagree that such people exist, just that there aren't many in this situation (partly because the deductability is stingy in the first place).
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