"Jamie Harron, who is 27... said he was trying to avoid spilling his drink in the crowded Rock Bottom Bar when the incident happened.... The charges he faces in connection with the incident are said to be twofold - drinking alcohol and public indecency."
BBC reports.
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50 comments:
Remember. All cultures are equal.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Don't go to a foreign country and expect them to waive all their laws (no matter how stupid) for you.
Unless its the USA.
Another good reason not to travel. Parts of the world are cesspools.
He was confused about the name of the bar. He thought it was the Jock Bottom.
"The charges he faces in connection with the incident are said to be twofold - drinking alcohol and public indecency."
Drinking alcohol? In a BAR? Quelle horreur!
Wait. Couldn't the same thing happen in America? A man touches a woman's "hip," and she accuses him of sexual assault, but he says he was just navigating through a crowded bar, trying not to spill his drink? If the woman is believed, it's a crime. Would you be surprised to find that crime prosecuted?
In the Wisconsin criminal code: "(b) “Sexual contact" means any of the following:
1. Any of the following types of intentional touching, whether direct or through clothing, if that intentional touching is either for the purpose of sexually degrading; or for the purpose of sexually humiliating the complainant or sexually arousing or gratifying the defendant or if the touching contains the elements of actual or attempted battery under s. 940.19 (1):
a. Intentional touching by the defendant or, upon the defendant's instruction, by another person, by the use of any body part or object, of the complainant's intimate parts.
b. Intentional touching by the complainant, by the use of any body part or object, of the defendant's intimate parts or, if done upon the defendant's instructions, the intimate parts of another person."
NB.Always avoid Muslims.They want to hurt you for being a normal human which makes their miserable legal system look silly.
I bet when the truth comes out we'll learn this Scot had already spilled his drink on the man's pants and was trying to wring some of it back into his glass.
He is No True Scotsman.
Ann Althouse said...
"b. Intentional touching by the complainant, by the use of any body part or object, of the defendant's intimate parts or, if done upon the defendant's instructions, the intimate parts of another person."
Wait. What?
The complainant intentionally touches the defendant's intimate parts, and the defendant is charged? See, creeping sharia.
@jupiter
I only quoted the definition of sexual conduct, which is a term used in the definition of the crime. You need more text to know when sexual coduct is a crime, which would include nonconsent.
I’m just guessing there are situations where a victim is trickec into touching genitalia.
"2. Intentional penile ejaculation of ejaculate or intentional emission of urine or feces by the defendant or, upon the defendant's instruction, by another person upon any part of the body clothed or unclothed of the complainant if that ejaculation or emission is either for the purpose of sexually degrading or sexually humiliating the complainant or for the purpose of sexually arousing or gratifying the defendant."
Splooging is apparently a big issue in Wisconsin.
To be on the safe side, I always carry a potted plant myself.
Why would anyone go to Dubai ?
Isn't that the same place that two tourists were imprisoned for necking on the beach ?
Yes, although it might have been more than necking.
"Why would anyone go to Dubai?"
Contractors supporting the military in Afghanistan (and Iraq before) fly commercial to Dubai. From there they fly charter to work. Sounds like that's what this guy was doing.
I wounldn't travel to an Islamic nation is you paid me.
Which is sad because I'd love to visit Turkey.
The Godfather said...
Another good reason not to travel. Parts of the world are cesspools.
...
Get out there for some solid years and you might think the West is in a radical blow-off top. Most Asian countries (for example) might look like paradise soon enough. By my estimate, within 50 years.
Dubai is an interesting place. Been there a number of times, never had a problem.
It's a very western friendly Muslim nation. Hotels have bars and there are many night clubs. Lots of high end shopping. Nice restaurants. Tourist stuff. Ride a camel, parasail, etc. Drinking isn't illegal, but you wouldn't want to get into drinking related trouble there. It's full of prostitutes from Russia, Eastern Europe, Africa, Asia. It's not legal ,but it's tolerated to a degree.
It's very wealthy. Locals don't have to work for a living. They live off the oil wealth. The workers are imported, Phillipinos, Indians, Africans. Many live there for years and years with their families. If they aren't employed, they have to leave.
You can snow ski indoors there.
.
Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...
I wounldn't travel to an Islamic nation is you paid me.
...
Indonesia (Muslim) is one of the most incredible places I've been. Population 250 million. I travelled it slowly from Timor to Sumatra. On a happiness scale they make us look suicidal, as do many other places.
Dubai is the Las Vegas of the Middle East..it's where Muslims go to party....the purpose of Dubai is to provide a place to drink alcohol and commit public indecency.
If this guy was a Muslim or an Arab he wouldn't have been prosecuted.
"...I'd love to visit Turkey."
Do it. You won't regret it.
You may regret not doing it.
It would be an unfair sentence even if he had been looking for sex. How many lashes was he sentenced to? I would never travel to a (backward) 3rd world country. Dubai is still in that category despite their oil wealth. The United State has enough injustice to qualify as a third world country. I recognize that, and experienced it too.
When America invaded Iraq, the hope of ordinary Iraqis was not that Iraq would be like America.
It was that Iraq would be like Dubai.
"I’m just guessing there are situations where a victim is tricked into touching genitalia"
I believe the standard porn movie gag was:
the frat guy is at the bus stop holding a cello, and asks the coed to please reach into his pocket (which has been cut out) for his bus fare
or the frat guy at the movies cuts out the bottom of the box of pop corn; and waits for his date to get hungry
Trumpit said...
I would never travel to a (backward) 3rd world country.
...
Excluding Africa, mostly they're poor, not backward. Backwards is what we do.
I do a bit of international travel. Never travel to countries rated not free by Freedom House.
Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...
I wounldn't travel to an Islamic nation is you paid me.
...
Another example: Among the group of people I know who do a similar thing, travel for years and hundreds of thousands of kilometres by land, if you were to poll them, they'd vote Iran as their favourite country.
Blogger sodal ye said...
Dickin'Bimbos@Home said...
I wounldn't travel to an Islamic nation is you paid me.
...
Another example: Among the group of people I know who do a similar thing, travel for years and hundreds of thousands of kilometres by land, if you were to poll them, they'd vote Iran as their favourite country.
...
Don't get me wrong, I'm finishing Graeme Wood's The Way of the Strangers and if you don't fear Islam enough, this will top you up.
Adventure begins when things start to go wrong.
Only break one law at a time.
My guess is that the irritated guy, was a local with a little sway and either felt belittled or thought it was some gay pass or something. The idea of being prosecuted for drinking while he was at a bar seems a little ludicrous but perhaps it is translation issue and it is a public intoxication charge.
As far as this being a crime in America, I suppose it could technically be a crime, but it seems one of those things why people need need to elect prosecutors with common sense. Heck even if a man patted a woman's behind in a bar (assuming over the clothes), I would expect no prosecution generally. Should the establishment throw him out absolutely? If the police are called I could see them arresting him if he were drunk at the time. But when it comes time for prosecution, prosecuting a charge for sexual assault would still be inappropriate. Public intox? That could be done. Or if there were aggravating factors, like the guy was a serial groper or it went on for a prolonged time period or repeatedly, then I could see prosecuting for sexual assault. Part of this is because of the somewhat uniform way our criminal justice system treats nearly all sexual assaults as uniformly and equally awful. Awful being somewhere below murder but above arson.
Pinandpuller said...
Only break one law at a time.
...
Don't break ANY laws, unless, for example you know how to defeat bureaucracy or obstinacy with bribery, a necessary skill in Latin America, for example, if you're tired of being screwed over. Practica y practica.
I wounldn't travel to an Islamic nation is you paid me.
Which is sad because I'd love to visit Turkey.
I was there ten years ago with my daughter. Our guide loved Attaturk and we saw lots of friendly people.
I would not go now.
"The charges he faces in connection with the incident are said to be twofold - drinking alcohol and public indecency."
And they say the Muslim world, ruled by Islam, isn't ready for the 21st century!
Pinandpuller said...
Only break one law at a time.
...
Sometimes breaking the law is a rite. For instance, what is a couple of weeks in La Paz Bolivia without blow in a cocaine/whisky bar, of which there is one, Ruta 36, which moved weekly, but I hear it's gone further underground recently. Or getting wasted at L'Atmo in alcohol-free Kabul, Afghanistan. Or to go full Coleridge, Wordsworthesque and overnight in an opium den in Chinatown Kolkata (Calcutta)
These are excusable.
Yeah, wouldn't go to Turkey these days. My wife and I went to Istanbul about ten years ago before things went pear-shaped and it was okay. We did Hagia Sophia, museums, high-end shopping - we travel a lot around the world and it was decent but not even close to a top 10 destination. We weren't thrilled with being asked for money at every street corner. Seriously the panhandlers and grifters are (were?) everywhere.
Now that it seems to be going hardcore Muslim Brotherhood I wouldn't bother - it wasn't that great to begin with and it's surely worse now. That said, I suppose you could get a good deal on hotel rooms and flights these days. There are two Four Seasons in Istanbul (we stayed at the Bosphorous location) and I wouldn't be surprised if they're desperate for business and priced accordingly.
Ann Althouse said...
Wait. Couldn't the same thing happen in America? A man touches a woman's "hip," and she accuses him of sexual assault, but he says he was just navigating through a crowded bar, trying not to spill his drink? If the woman is believed, it's a crime. Would you be surprised to find that crime prosecuted?
No. But I would be surprised if a jury convicted.
On the other hand I agree we need prosecutorial reform in this country.
Well there is at least one guy missing the old British Empire.
Ambrose said...
Well there is at least one guy missing the old British Empire.
...
Yes, indeed. Yet a Canadian who doesn't like Brits. Peak British Empire was firing on all cylinders for all concerned. One conclusion travellers sometimes get.
Would you be surprised to find that crime prosecuted?
Depends on the race, ethnicity, religion, and political affiliation of the accused. Young, white, gentile Republican? Close to 100%. Big donor to Democrat political campaigns and liberal causes? Close to zero, even if he touched her clothed butt with his exposed schlong (cf. Weinstein, Harvey).
Any man playin' grab-ass spends a night in the box...
You have to remember that there are cameras everywhere in Dubai and that it is not a democracy. It may be westernized to an extent, but it is still ruled by the Sheikhs. If you cause an issue, you will be cited. Like the Vault Dweller said, a local probably complained. Only in America do we have the freedom to be stupid.
Remember the Maine!!
I strongly suspect homosexuality is involved here. The bar was called "The Rock Bottom", for goodness sake. The photo of it in the BBC story looked like a real sausage party. The enlightened West, including our blog proprietress, thinks they have it all mainstreamed, but the rest of the world isn't quite buying into it.
There are Rock Bottom bars in the US.
Sounds like a great place!
But I notice everybody goes back home.
Too bad I detest flying
I'd go someplace civilized.
Jupiter said...
Ann Althouse said...
"I’m just guessing there are situations where a victim is tricked into touching genitalia."
Oooooh! I hate it when that happens!
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