The Wisconsin State Journal reports.
We don't know who did it, but what do you think? Based on past incidents, I presume things like this are false flag.
CORRECTION: The post title is updated — with "next to" replacing "on" — because spray painting wasn't on the building itself but on a monument next to it. The monument is a stone with a plaque honoring the Americans of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade (who fought against Franco in the Spanish Civil War).
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97 comments:
Too neat, too tidy, and, at the same time, too all-over-the-map. 48 hours from now, other jackboot drops. Stay tuned.
I'll wait till the investigation is over. In this day and age of fake hate crimes it's the only sensible thing to do.
"Antifa sucks"...? LOL. I would say fake.
I could be wrong, but it has the tone of a college-age Social Justice Warrior.
Actually, Nazis and Antifa members did this together, to keep both groups from drifting off the front page.
"Antifa sucks" on a synagogue? Sorry, doesn't pass the smell test.
Serious question: What will it take, if anything, for journalists to employ healthy (professional) skepticism with incidents?
Not saying don't report it. But do as we do with a terrorist attack. We all strongly suspect the motive behind it. But the media withholds speculation, and doesn't pass on speculation. This article passes on speculation as to motives.
If you can't be professional at least be consistent.
It would be interesting to finally see a hate crime that is NOT a hoax.
Someone's also been busy "raising awareness" at University of Michigan this past weekend.
#1 rule for propaganda Clinton style is accuse your opponents of what you are doing. It creates doubt and confusion if you are spotted doing it.
I guess it could be an actual intentional graffiti incident. Or it could be a false flag. Needless to say I am skeptical given, oh the last decade or so of 'hate crime' incidents. It seems odd to target this particular area, and at this particular time. Another thing that is off, is that the graffitiers seem to have messed up at least one of their swastikas. https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/host.madison.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/1/b9/1b9f485c-552e-53b1-81ee-4ab89879b18f/59c2975d4e28d.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C1599
They made something that looks like a combined L and E, instead of a swastika. Then they appeared to realize their mistake and made a properly drawn swastika beneath it. This should at the very least warrant a heavy dose of skepticism on anyone's part. But I suppose it is possible we could be dealing with a case of Neo-Neo-Nazis, who have yet to earn the Swastika Graffiti merit badge.
We have fake news sites and blogs quick to label false flags oh when will it ever cease? See the article about the undercover student Patrick Hertmansson who explored the world of the extreme right to discover how pervasive and anti-semitic their views are and why these "false flags" will continue to happen.
Is Althouse now genuinely interested in the suffering of minorities associated w/ the DJT era?
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Wave-of-Hate-100-antisemitic-incidents-reported-in-days-after-Trump-election-474075
Or, is this sorta thing only a problem when she's speculating re fake racism?
White privilege.
"I presume things like this are false flag"
I'd bet just about anything on it. "Antifa sucks?" Come on.
"Is Althouse now genuinely interested in the suffering of minorities associated w/ the DJT era?" Are you genuinely not aware that many of those hate-crimes listed, maybe most of them, turned out to be fake? I don't know how many turned out to be real.
Here (as part of her newfound concern re racists in America) is something Althouse can add to her blogroll:
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch
Based on past incidents, I presume things like this are false flag.
Don't you know? Roesch just "wants to start a dialog."
"Trump Rules" is almost as obviously as fake.
This is some dingbat's idea of how his enemy thinks. Do it in the Scott Adams duh-duh-der voice.
"Der, Trump Rules" "
Duh, Duh, Antifa sucks!
Eh, looks fake to me, especially with the failed swastika noted earlier. Might be wrong, of course, but at this point it's playing the odds to assume it's fake.
I agree that this looks phony, but. perhaps, that's what they want you to think. Maybe it's a fake false flag. These KBG agents are diabolically clever. They defeated Hillary with $100,000 worth of Facebook ads. This might be an extremely subtle way of discrediting Hillary and her supporters.
The SPLC is a hate group.
SPLC? 3GPB..., you are way out of touch. These lists are the exact kind of partisan fake news garbage that makes a growing number of Americans not trust the media. One after another of these cases turned out to be fake.
Amazing that you missed all this. Read a broader range of sources.
CJinPA said...
If you can't be professional at least be consistent.
9/20/17, 11:47 AM
The media is consistent.
If it can in anyway be deemed a "bad" right wing incident, it will and will be representative of all right wing/conservatives.
If it is a "positive" right wing/conservative story, either ignore it or leave out as much mention of ideology as possible.
If it is a "negative" left wing/progressive incident, never mention party/groups unless absolutely unavoidable. Be sure it say it was an isolated incident and in NO way indicative of group behavior. Also, downplay any/all violence as much as possible. Violence either has zero agency (violence broke out) or was incidental (minor skirmishes).
If it is a "positive" left wing/progressive incident, it represents ALL left wing/progressives and was likely opposed by right wing/conservatives but the progressives persevered.
They teach this in Journalism 101 at all institutions of higher education.
Gates of Heaven, now that's funny. Must be a cult.
In Seattle, some guy wearing a swastika had the crap beaten out of him on the sidewalk. Video/photos went viral - I am sure you can find a link easily.
My first thought was the surely, a person can't be that stupid to wear a swastika. Pondering intelligence levels got me thinking how easy it would be for a group of assholes to convince a developmentally disabled adult to don a swastika - then trail them to watch the inevitable beat down.
I don't work with this population (disabled) any more but I hope that those that do are counseling them how to stay out of political conflicts that go over their head and merely attract negative attention to them. In the decade I did work with this vulnerable population, I heard enough stories of non-disabled individuals preying on those that are.
To address one point raised in the article. The woman who ran the center was interviewed about the situation, and at one point raised a speculation on the motivation for the perpetrators. She thought it was linked to the upcoming Rosh Hashana holiday. This strikes me as an odd motivation for an antisemitic person to have. It would be weird for someone like that to keep track of the High Jewish holidays. That type of person seems more concerned about imaginary Jewish plots to control the world and secretive cabals of influencers carrying out those plans. I doubt they could even name the important Jewish Holidays and if they could think of one they would probably only think of Hanukkah.
It would be like if there was anti-LGBT graffiti incident, and one of the messages was something like, "We should have shut you up at Stonewall!" Would someone who hates gay people even know about the Stonewall Riots?
Sign says
"Stay away fools"
'Cause Trump rules
It's a false flag attack
If there's no noose, it's not Trump.
Based on the video out of Charlottesville of their interview with an actual neo-Nazi, they're not big on Trump, based on who he let his daughter marry. Not claiming they didn't favor him over Clinton, just that they are unlikely to be promoting him, unprompted.
I smile when I think of the agony the perpetuators of such false flags must be going through as they write "Trump rules." It's got to hurt. Now add to their pain the fact that the world is now onto their tactics. They get nothing for their efforts.
Poetic justice.
Just by the law of averages: there are about two hundred neo-Nazis in the US, and about 150 million people who hate Donald Trump. Of that last group, about two-thirds are functionally insane enough to do something stupid.
So it is about five hundred thousand times as likely to be a false flag operation as to be real.
QED
Jew's in Israel love Trump. That is an inconvenient fact. Or maybe Jews are stupid and cannot see that Trump is secretly setting up the Muslims to finish making Palestine into Judenrein land like Poland.
No, that was Mullah Obama's goal. But if the Clinton paid Astro turners keep up the charade, maybe it will be believed by some in America.
A Somali Muslim immigrant approached the building and painted a swastika, then ran away.
Not seeing him in the dark, a libertarian followed and painted, Antifa sucks.
Not seeing him in the dark, a man wearing a MAGA hat followed...
After seeing the misdrawn swastika, I couldn't help but think of Romans go home
"It would be weird for someone like that to keep track of the High Jewish holidays."
The Judiciary Rs in the not in session Senate didn't give any shits re shofars today. So, ya gots a point there.
Based on past "hate crime" reports I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was a member of the congregation.
http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/
roesch/voltaire said...
We have fake news sites and blogs quick to label false flags oh when will it ever cease? See the article about the undercover student Patrick Hertmansson who explored the world of the extreme right to discover how pervasive and anti-semitic their views are and why these "false flags" will continue to happen.
he joined Nazi and Neo Nazi groups in Britain and America. hardly an indictment of mainstream conservatism. or Trump.
"Antifa sucks!"
Well, yes, they do. But nobody would spray paint that on a synagogue, other than some Antifa provocateurs trying to blunt all their recent (better late than never) bad publicity.
If you are denounced by Nancy Pelosi, you do need some positive PR.
>>some guy wearing a swastika had the crap beaten out of him on the sidewalk
If you get to punch Nazis, I get to beat the crap out of flag burners.
"Jew's in Israel love Trump."
Many Jews in America seem to hate Israel these days.
Part of this all is something of a Jewish civil war.
Contemporary hooligans are so retro. The authentic modern threat is: go Plan yourself.
"Antifa is a political movement that opposes fascism." Glad to know the Wisconsin State Journal has been read into the program.
Note: Spray-painted on a (unrelated) monument next to the Synagogue. Not on the Synagogue itself.
Hoax until proved otherwise.
Why presume anything?
Madison's left-wingers are going to presume that the incident is reflective of a dangerous wing of pro-Trump anti-semites.
And Ann Althouse is going to presume that the incident is a "false flag" trick of vandalism, aimed somehow at embarrassing the Trump side of American politics.
They are both presumptions. I suppose that speculation is okay, but why not wait for an investigation? Or, like, uh evidence? Maybe "evidence" is too high a bar. How about "any facts"?
And here comes Chuck arguing that the truth should lounge in bed just a bit longer while the lie makes its way around the world. It's logic like Chuck's that we just can't stop getting from the eGOP.
How does the SPLC have any credibility left when they put Ayaan Hirsi Ali on their 'hate watch'? They ARE a left-wing hate group and should be investigated by the Justice department ASAP.
Not sure if Chuck is new to this whole blogging thing, but if everyone took his advice here, blogs themselves wouldn't exist.
Chuck - it speaks volumes that you don't even entertain the idea that this is a false-flag after so many hoaxes in the last several years.
Reminds me of the unlikely words "Acid is Groovy" smeared on the walls of the home of Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald who claims some hippies killed his pregnant wife and children. He was convicted of the crime.
"but why not wait for an investigation? "
Why wait?
Work of the legions of right wingers in Madison, obviously. As a center of white supremacy in the upper Mid-West and as a town hosting the whitest of white bread universities the culprits are clearly alt-right Nazi white supremacist anti-semitic clods, the very description of the "students" at the UWM.
SPLC appears to be a money scam posing as a hate group.
>Reminds me of the unlikely words "Acid is Groovy" smeared on the walls of the home of Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald
Yes, that's exactly right. It matches what lefties imagine about Nazis, not what Nazis believe.
r/V: We have fake news sites and blogs quick to label false flags oh when will it ever cease? See the article about the undercover student Patrick Hertmansson who explored the world of the extreme right to discover how pervasive and anti-semitic their views are and why these "false flags" will continue to happen.
Are you saying that the existence of anti-semites means that anti-anti-semites will be compelled to continue hate-hoaxing?
Or are you saying that all those "hate crimes" that turned out to be hoaxes really happened, it's just that the "fake news sites" reported (not speculated) in advance of evidence that they were hoaxes, and everyone believed that? (If so, surely you can provide a list of these many "hoaxes that weren't"?)
'Sokay, r/V, no need to answer. It's churlish of me to demand coherence from someone desperately trying to maintain an untenable world view.
If just before Yom Kippur we see new Graffiti saying, "Antifa can't protect you! Your day of atonement is on indefinite postponement!" I will feel confident in declaring that, that incident and this one, were both false flags created by Antifa or Antifa supporters.
The "Antifa Sucks" tag is a dead giveaway- this was painted by an Antifa supporter. Also, it is Madison, Wisconsin, so odds are already nearly 2 to 1 the vandal is a leftist.
"Antifa is a political movement of trust fund babies, basement dwellers, and other malcontents that opposes fascism by beating up peaceful protesters [only when they outnumber them] that they don't agree with, shutting down talks and presentations on topics they don't agree with [with the support of liberal school administrations], and by rioting when election results run counter to their desires [with the support of liberal mayors]."
Fixed it for them...
If there was ever an example of "double-speak", antifa is it.
Have we entered an era of "Fake Noose"?
Yancey Ward asserts: Also, it is Madison, Wisconsin, so odds are already nearly 2 to 1 the vandal is a leftist.
Only '2 to 1'?
And if MadisonMan is correct, that the graffiti wasn't on the synagogue itself, then that pretty much nails it down that it is a hoax. A true anti-semite would have made sure the synagogue was vandalized.
@Yancey -- I only wrote what I read in the article!
The Left NEEDS neo-nazis to justify their rage, anger and drive. Can't be heroic a Batman, if Catwoman, the Penguin, the Riddler, and the Joker are all in jail. Need some new villains!
Just like Jesse Jackson needed racial miscues in the corporate board rooms to shake them down.
Ideally, you would want ExxonMobil to make some racially charged statements caught by the NSA, leaked to the NYTimes. Then, all sorts of activist groups of every stripe could sue the crap out of them. Shake them down, baby!
Schrödinger's graffiti....
The time to worry is when someone sprays "PP" on your home, business, or church.
They're ALL fake.
http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/
"Chuck said...
Why presume anything?
Madison's left-wingers are going to presume that the incident is reflective of a dangerous wing of pro-Trump anti-semites.
And Ann Althouse is going to presume that the incident is a "false flag" trick of vandalism, aimed somehow at embarrassing the Trump side of American politics.
They are both presumptions. I suppose that speculation is okay, but why not wait for an investigation? Or, like, uh evidence? Maybe "evidence" is too high a bar. How about "any facts"?"
Like the fact that you are a tool?
"Can't be heroic a Batman, if Catwoman, the Penguin, the Riddler, and the Joker are all in jail. "
Or are fictional.
A lot of left-ideology is about fictions.
Things and people that don't exist in fact, that can't be found in the flesh.
This should prove interesting. I'd love to know about the Neo-Nazi contingent in Dane County, WI.
All two of 'em!
buwaya said...
Or are fictional.
A lot of left-ideology is about fictions.
A lot of the Alt-Right guys call Neo-Nazi's LARPers. (L.A.R.P. = Live Action Role Play)
I'm starting to think of Antifa as Anarchists LARPers, myself.
"spray-painted on the Gates of Heaven Synagogue building"
No, it wasn't painted on the synagogue.
It was painted on a monument honoring Americans in the Spanish Civil War, which is near the Synagogue.
This is an anti-Hispanic fakehatecrime.
It was painted on a monument honoring Americans in the Spanish Civil War, which is near the Synagogue.
9/20/17, 3:21 PM
So - why would supposed white nationalists deface a monument honoring white Americans and Teddy Roosevelt's Rough Riders and leave the synagogue untouched? I thought that only white supremacists cared about all those racist statues and monuments.
There's a tell right there.
Spanish Civil War, Exiled! Not Spanish American War.
You know if we on the right were the racist, sexist Nazis you leftists claim we are? You wouldn't have to go around creating these hoaxes.
Yet, you persist.
These guys are pikers.
When it comes to fake hate crimes, they don't have any of the dedication required. Gay teenager in rural Utah had far more guts. He actually carved "Gays are evil" or something like that into his forehead and permanently defaced some of his property--then of course, cried wolf, errr, "hate crime by those evil Rural Utahans!"
But he didn't have lasting power. Cops interviewed him and he broke down and admitted it was all a hoax. The locall leftists like R/V were crushed... but they still maintain that the "spirit" of bigotry was on display nevertheless.
You know, fake but accurate. All Mormons (rural Utahans is code for "Mormons") are guilty of hate crimes.
But the LGBT community attacking Mormons and defacing churches and temples? Not bigotry or a hate crime at all, naturally! Leftists cannot be hateful!
--Vance
"who fought against Franco in the Spanish Civil War"
Who did they fight for?
So exactly how "near" to the synagogue are these monuments to the Commies who fought the Fascists in Spain? I am suspecting the media are attempting to inject a frisson of anti-Semitism into the whole episode. Much more likely that some Commies who like antiFa know of the Commie memorial and decided that was the place to do their fake hate crime. The synagogue is just an innocent bystander pulled in by the exquisitely tuned "HATE CRIME!" radar of our local liberal pressniks.
Republicans fought the fascists in the Spanish Civil War.
Hemingway made a funny joke about it.
The logic is that AL Brigade were anti-fascists, therefore, anti-antifa's white supremacists defaced the memorial. However, we all know that the alt-right is too gorked out on oxy, too obese to get up from watching the Andy Griffith show and too stupid to identify and link the AL Brigade to antifa, therefore fake hate crime.
The republicans were commie simps and attracted anarchists whom fought the nationalists nazi simps.
This war produced my favorite Hemmingway novel: For Whom the Bell Tolls. Gary Cooper does a fair job and Swede Ingrid Bergman plays a saucy senorita.... oooooo la la
Howard 's first post makes sense.
This whole AntiFa vs NeoFascist does jave a Spanish Civil War flavor. Be nice to put them in a giant arena, maybe let some lions in so there would good guys to bet on.
I read your correction, and a statue honoring communists is a lot closer than a synagogue to passing the smell test. Still, I have to assume it's fake until proven real.
The Abraham Lincoln Brigade were filled with American Communists. In the Spanish Civil War the bad guys won. The worse guys lost. It's a shame that there's a monument to the Abraham Lincoln Brigade. Not in favor of pulling it down, though.
...was filled with Communiists...
I am waiting for SPLC to declare "Antifa" a hate organization for their vaunted list.
Waiting.....waiting....Bueller.....Bueller.....anyone?.......
There is a bigger monument to the Abraham Lincoln Brigade in San Francisco's Justin Herman plaza, across the street from the Ferry Building.
But they stuck it behind the eyesore Vaillancourt Fountain.
You have to walk around that stupid thing to get to the also-ugly AL Bde. monument, a collection of photos permanently mounted behind sheets of glass. Its getting rather deteriorated now.
Bob Lee was a better American than anyone who for communism as part of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade. Fair's fair. If you're going to uproot memorials to dead Confederate soldiers then monuments to American communists need to go, too.
Part of this all is something of a Jewish civil war.
There is a real issue between "secular Jews" who want to forget their ethnicity and religious Jews who celebrate it.
Israel is full of both types but American, and to some extent Britain, is full of Jews who want to pretend they are completely unrelated.
The same thing occurred in Germany after WWI.
The secular think they can please the political left, which hates religion of all types, by hating Israel.
Isn't that what we do now? We deface statues and monuments. That is the new thing! Everyone cheered, remember?
Wait...did you think only some people were watching when the thought leaders normalized this kind of thing, making it acceptable??
The monument is a stone with a plaque honoring the Americans of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade (who fought for COMINTERN in the Spanish Civil War).
TFIFY
Now that we know it was the Abraham Lincoln Brigade monument, I am half convinced that this is a legitimate act of vandalism rather than a false flag. There is a level of historical knowledge and understanding here to equate those Communist useful idiots with today's Antifa useful idiots that the typical know-nothing anarchist thug would be hard pressed to muster. Then again, maybe the fact that it was a statue was sufficient, because all statues are bad or something in these idiots' minds, so I cannot rule it out completely.
The idea that it was an anti-Semitic act is a hoax. It baffles that it was ever reported as such. It takes a special level of obtuseness to get to that position, but golly journalism schools will get you that point if they have to drag you there by your collar and then rub your nose in it.
CORRECTION: It is a rock with a plaque, not a statue. Eh, it's all the same. It's is vaguely phallic so that is sufficient anyway.
Static Ping has a good take.
Personally, I'd bet a doughnut on false flag. I wouldn't bet the farm.
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