"But is the basic human right to a sexual life the same as a universal entitlement to a young, attractive woman? Because that is what it is being subverted into here."
From "The Trouble With Sex Robots," by Laura Bates... in the NYT, which declines to offer a comments section for this one. It's ironic, because the topic is that sex with a robot excludes the "pesky" interaction with a human being who might not just go along with you.
ADDED: It occurs to me that the preference for a robot over virtual reality reflects a longing for a real human companion. You have this human-sized, human-looking object in your home. Why would you want that? Perhaps to give the feeling you have company, someone to talk to. And it would talk to you. If it were only for sex, wouldn't virtual reality work better and seem more realistic as sex?
There are so many lonely people. Bates seems blind to their existence. You might say: Deprive them of realistic robots so they will be forced to get out in the world and find somebody. But not everyone can do that easily (or without exploiting or manipulating another human being). I don't want to say that anyone is too old, ugly, disabled, diseased, or disagreeable to find a sex partner, but it's a big challenge for some people.
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१८१ टिप्पण्या:
Woody Allan said, "The good thing about masturbation is you're having sex with someone who really loves you."
"But is the basic human right to a sexual life the same as a universal entitlement to a young, attractive woman?"
Hell yes.
But, forgiveness is mandatory.
“... well I gotta
... be forgiven
if I’m gonna spend my living,
with a long cool woman in a black dress.”
There's a basic human right that every man and woman is entitled to a hottie lover, except the hotties, who have to spend their lives servicing the grossies like us, who vastly outnumber them!
Move to Nevada where it's legal.
I think he meant sex life, rather than sexual, but no matter, there's no right to one in any event.
I auppose that if all else fails for Professor Sharkey, he can find a way to handle it.
Tee hee hee, written by Laura Bates....
I confess, I don't really understand the problem that the article is trying to pose. Oh, as far as violence against a simulacrum of a woman relaxing moral constraints around violence against actual women -- I understand the argument. It's the same argument (helpfully recapitulated right in the article) regularly made against violent comic books, violent movies, and now, violent video games. And it's one that I'm sympathetic to, although I don't ultimately find it convincing. As I grow older, I find the casual violence in movies more and more painful. When I see cars getting crushed in car chases, for example, or flattened by debris, I imagine the people inside.
And if it were just about women worrying that their negotiating position in the sexual marketplace is undermined by the easy availability of sex robots -- well, that's understandable, although it's not really an argument advanced in the article.
But this --
"But is the basic human right to a sexual life the same as a universal entitlement to a young, attractive woman? Because that is what it is being subverted into here."
What does that even mean? First, it's not a universal "entitlement" (these robots seem quite expensive) if you have to pay for it. Second . . . second, that's just word salad. How is the "right" to a sexual life being "subverted" here? It's not quite colourless green ideas sleeping furiously here, but it's close. I genuinely don't understand the concept the author is trying to express.
Because what the article is limply hinting at is a prohibition that thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human female, which seems kind of monstrous in its own way. I suppose this is sort of how progressives feel when confronted by arguments against cloning or stem cells or gay marriage. There is a moral dimension -- maybe it's the progressive obsession with purity and degradation rearing its head? -- that I do not understand.
From the article: the notion that sex robots could reduce rape is deeply flawed. It suggests that male violence against women is innate and inevitable, and can be only mitigated, not prevented.
I find this to be such a strange attitude. Is there any crime, or indeed, any wrong in the world at all, for which this is not the case?
And a woman to a young, attractive man.
This article is going to wonderful fodder for the manosphere.
Another irony, the NYT doesn't want people to distract from the topic at hand. No baby hunts for you!
Women have been using electronic sex aids for decades...why can't men?
General takeaway: Women utilize sex aids. Men utilize rape objects.
Lyssa,
It's a question for ethology and the law.
Not for the Althouse blog [snark - for the tone police].
Balfegor,
"And if it were just about women worrying that their negotiating position in the sexual marketplace is undermined by the easy availability of sex robots -- well, that's understandable, although it's not really an argument advanced in the article."
Don't misunderstand--that's the real argument, or at least the biggest one; but the writer is wise enough to understand that it just wouldn't do to state it outright. Roissy, Rollo, Dalrock, and others will fill in the backstory for you if you care.
But is the basic human right to a sexual life the same as a universal entitlement to a young, attractive woman?
If I have to have people around me who get so morally concerned about my sex life, I'd really much rather have the Catholic Church policing my willy than these clowns. At least, with the CC, in the future, I get life eternal if I'm a good boy & I get Josquin Des Prez in the here & now.
Really, a much better ROI with Team Mackerel Snapper....
Every woman has a right to whichever size and diameter member provides her maximum pleasure, all currently available though the Amazon portal and no man has any right to judge or even comment. Every man, if he is going to use a sex robot, has a right to one that passes the judgement of womenkind. It's very simple. This is what patriarchy looks like people!
I feel objectified every time some woman straddles her John Holmes Peak Pleasure Penis.
Oh, I can tell this is gonna be a thread that it'll be unsafe for my keyboard & monitor to read with a mouth full of Coca-Cola.
https://twitter.com/Reebok/status/885959875393712128
Reebok on Twitter: "In case you were wondering when it IS appropriate to say, "You're in such good shape . . .beautiful."
Reebok may need to weigh in on whether this is appropriate when speaking to a sex robot.
Is this in the constitution?
If there's not another human involved, there is no issue. That is why it is being found problematic--because they want that issue to remain, so they can use it for political advantage.
Another way to put it: I used to have a monopoly, and I still do, but now there is a substitute that lots of people like even though it's not the same, and they'll settle for instead of what I'm selling, and so my price has to come down. And that's NOT FAIR.
“Is this in the constitution?”
There are more pleasures in the penumbras than any man can count.
They're called power tools.
Wait, so it is OK for me to have a sex robot but it has to mimic a 65 year old overweight women?
I feel objectified every time some woman straddles her John Holmes Peak Pleasure Penis
Lessens my market value, that's for sure.
George Bernard Shaw wrote: "Galatea, the woman who comes to life in the myth, never does quite like Pygmalion. His relation to her is too God-like to be altogether agreeable." I think even the female robots are going to hate us. It's sad.
Women have been using electronic sex aids for decades...why can't men?
Oh, they do.
Boy, do they!
I do think, seriously, that a lot of young men are going to online porn and masturbation to avoid the hostility in the sexual marketplace, so to speak. Thank God my sons grew up before all this stuff got going.
I bought the I-Robot Sex Model.
“Can we do it now?”
“That’s the wrong question.”
Then she ripped my head off.
“There’s a basic human right that everybody’s entitled to a sexual life,” Professor Sharkey said.
Why are leftist professors so confused about rights? Look, numbskull, nobody is entitled to a sexual life. You are free, however, to find someone with whom to consent to a sexual life. Good luck in your search. Try flowers.
It's much more of a contract between consenting parties, then a "basic human right."
Instapundit's wife, Dr. Helen Smith, has been publishing about this development for many years now. With the rise of "women rights," many men say to Hell with marriage. If they can get casual sex through Tinder, who needs the aggravation of a wife? Particularly a wife, who has no interest in taking care of her husband.
If Tinder isn't working, well, soon, I reckon you'll have these sex-robots.
I'm not saying this is a good development. I'm saying it's a natural reaction to the steady push made by feminists to upset the equilibrium between the sexes.
Myself, I prefer what Merle Haggard sung about: we like holdin' hands and pitchin' woo.
Some men probably use them. But men care a lot more about the interaction with a female, even a prostitute is an actual female, BTW, than the orgasms, by and large. That's why men won't really get on board until the experience is closer to what we truly value, which is the entire female form, not just an appendage.
I don't really understand the problem that the article is trying to pose.
Do you remember when feminists in the early 70s declared that a woman without a man was "like a fish without a bicycle"?
The point was feminists got the notion that men were much less necessary. This obviously devalued men. Maureen Dowd dabbled in this nonsense even as she reached old-maid status.
The sex-robot means women are much less necessary. This devalues women.
This is the problem for the NYTimes.
They'd be better off re-teaching women how to flirt and dress better.
Bay Area Guy said...
They'd be better off re-teaching women how to flirt and dress better.
7/17/17, 3:08 PM
OMG! 60 more days of re-education camp for you mister! Now get your butt back on the bus!
Since hot robot sex will soon be a "right" - I suppose the fascist left will want to "tax the rich" in order to subsidize it so they can have it for free.
All Republican men should be neutered to render their noodle harmless. They think with their wieners because they have no other option. Humping is so gross that it's called fornication and pornography to be polite. Testosterone is an evil hormone that serves no legitimate purpose except to promote violence and war, and useless hair growth in all the wrong places. It's time for lunch, so I'll leave you with one last thought. Men are dogs, but thankfully dogs are not men.
@Comrade Marvin:
Neither fleshlights or real dolls are electronic. Fleshlights are the male version of dildos, not vibrators. Real Dolls are just more durable blow up dolls.
"OMG! 60 more days of re-education camp for you mister! Now get your butt back on the bus!"
Heh -- I was walking my dog on the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk the other day, and I swear to God, I never saw so many overweight, tatooed, tank-top wearing women in my life!
It looked like a biker-chick convention:)
This wasn't how it was in the 70s, no siree.
Is this in the constitution
I'm sure it is somehow covered by the 14th Amendment.
Whoa. Wait. Sex is a human right?
"How is the "right" to a sexual life being "subverted" here?"
Sure, it's absurd to talk about "sexual life" as a "human right," and about a right being subverted by access to robots, but methinks (apologies) the gentleman stumbled onto a useful gaffe: for most of the last century, progs have been "subverting" rights into entitlements.
So the objection is not to a sex doll itself, it is to programming a sex doll to have a personality? Professor Sharkey argues against the creation of "Frigid Farah" because a doll who presents resistance to the male user would constitute a way to fulfill a user's rape fantasy. Rape is bad. I'm pretty sure about that. I was raised that way. Since that's true, fostering a fantasy of simulated rape must also be bad. So, is a "Slutty Sue" personality okay? How about a "Hard to please Helen"? A "Nagging Nadine?" A "Wild Wanda"? (I could go on because this is kind of fun!)
Does the sex doll become morally objectionable only because it has a personality, or is it because the animatronics have too realistic? The article suggests the answer is both. After all, if the objection here is to objectification of women, do we need to ban all sexual objects? How does that comport with "There's a basic human right that everybody’s entitled to a sexual life." Really? I had no idea that the Founding Fathers had that in mind when they said "pursuit of happiness." I guess they thought of everything!
"By replicating women as realistically as possible," says Professor Sharkey, "this is what such robots attempt to provide — down to every detail except the pesky necessity for an actual woman’s consent." So do you have to get "consent" from your new sex toy? Exactly how many times do you need to take her out for dinner before she does that? I don't know. It probably depends on what personality you chose when you ordered it. Or perhaps it only depends on how realistic it is. Wow. Life is going to be complicated for our children.
There is a difference between objectifying women and anthropomorphizing objects. It just might be a big difference.
I know! Let's pass a law! That always fixes everything.
Michael K said...
I do think, seriously, that a lot of young men are going to online porn and masturbation to avoid the hostility in the sexual marketplace, so to speak."
It's not just America. I read last week that over half of young Japanese are still virgins at age 30. The young men are afraid of women. They prefer anime and tentacle porn and other weird stuff to interaction with real live females. And the Japanese birthrate is abysmal.
I'm reminded of a character in Laslo's Uncle Bernie movie who has "relationships" with sex toys. There are millions of those guys in Japan.
"But is the basic human right to a sexual life the same as a universal entitlement to a young, attractive woman? Because that is what it is being subverted into here."
From the Wikipedia page on Noel Sharkey:
Sharkey resides in Sheffield with his wife Amanda and has five daughters.
Anybody want to take a shot at what word is missing from the Wikipedia quote?
Like townie rental bicycles lined up on city street kiosks - soon our basic human right to hot robot sex will be subsidized by tax payers, with hot robots lined up for rent on the street.
Question? will there be robot bleach tanks nearby? If not, I'm not touching that thing.
" fascist left will want to 'tax the rich' in order to subsidize it so they can have it for free."
"Slim, athletic, voluptuous?"
"Athletic."
"Demure, aggressive, sleazy? Be honest."
"Sleazy."
“Boy, is he gonna have a wild time. He's not gonna want to come back.”
---
My tax lawyer told me, "California tax on sleazy is, actuarially, estimated at an offset against the risk pool of demure, and in your bracket, you pay ..., but wait, for you, you don't have come back ... there are these offshore shelters ..."
I think he meant sex life, rather than sexual, but no matter, there's no right to one in any event.
As Jefferson wrote, more or less, just the right to the pursuit of one.
Damn, someone got there first (sorta)
Bicycle invents Fidget Wheel.
Fish says Thats not funny.
"Because that is what it is being subverted into here."
What terrible English! Is this person an ESL writer?
Oh wait, he's an American "professor".
Well, never mind then.
Maybe it's from Aztec common law or something.
Not a western tradition, anyway.
There once was a man from Racine ....
North,
"Anybody want to take a shot..."
I see what you did there!
The Elder,
Pretty sure "Nympho Nina" will be the most popular model--especially if, unlike the meatspace version, there's still an off switch.
Does the sex doll become morally objectionable only because it has a personality, or is it because the animatronics have too realistic? The article suggests the answer is both. After all, if the objection here is to objectification of women, do we need to ban all sexual objects? How does that comport with "There's a basic human right that everybody’s entitled to a sexual life." Really? I had no idea that the Founding Fathers had that in mind when they said "pursuit of happiness." I guess they thought of everything!
"By replicating women as realistically as possible," says Professor Sharkey, "this is what such robots attempt to provide — down to every detail except the pesky necessity for an actual woman’s consent." So do you have to get "consent" from your new sex toy? Exactly how many times do you need to take her out for dinner before she does that? I don't know. It probably depends on what personality you chose when you ordered it. Or perhaps it only depends on how realistic it is. Wow.
I know! Let's pass a law! That always fixes everything.
7/17/17, 3:25 PM
Random lottery. Every month a random woman is paired with a random man. You WILL pleasure each other or face a "stiff" fine (or should I say "hefty")! Its the law!
Derive it from no fraud and no force, and you'd have something.
My robot won't leave me alone.
"rhhardin said...
My robot won't leave me alone."
And in your case, pal, you probably drew Marvin The Depressed Robot from the Edge of the Universe Café.
What happens when you have one of these robots attached to a sex hotline?
So, you get a fake woman in front of you to have sex with, but you get the mind of a real woman talking to you via a telephone or speaker inside the robot?
Can I patent that idea?
"My robot won't leave me alone."
Oh, so the off switch is an optional-cost extra? Caveat emptor!
"Slim, athletic, voluptuous?"
"Athletic."
"Demure, aggressive, sleazy? Be honest."
"Sleazy."
“Boy, is he gonna have a wild time. He's not gonna want to come back.”
Heh. A part of the movie that always makes me laugh.
Haven't read discussion of male robots. Will the predominant clientele for such things be male or female?
I thought the whole point of Sex Robot was that it *doesn't* talk.
The idea of human beings using these robots is so sad (and gross) that I find it hard to heap any social justice scorn on top of the existing patheticness.
"Haven't read discussion of male robots."
I guess that's one advantage to being Gay - many of them will have sex with anybody. Look at Andrew Sullivan, for example.
"There are millions of those guys in Japan."
Also millions in China where access to young females is limited severely by the one child policy.
I see a lot of Chinese kids applying to the US Army, a topic for another day, but lots of the young males have severe phimosis. Their foreskin is so tight they can't slide it back. I ask them if sex or even erections are painful and they just shrug.
I don't think they are getting any, either.
Also I see Chinese girls marrying Caucasians. That use dot be rare because Han Chinese were convinced they are a special people and others are barbarians,
Not any more. I haven't asked any of them but one daughter has Chinese friends and they are marrying white guys, some of whom are teaching in China.
We could have a sex mandate, and SCOTUS could rule that it's a tax.
"That used to be..."
Well, I for one, welcome our new Sex Robot Overlords.
Bay Area Gal advised me that she would accept into our household a sex robot that looked like Burt Reynolds from Smokey and the Bandit circa 1977.
She really is a great gal, I tell ya.
I can't believe people are having this stupid conversation like it's an existential threat to the human race.
This is not some nearly real flesh-and-blood beauty we're talking about banging here. It's a soft mannequin.
I don't care if it looks like Scarlett Johannson, you'd have to be delusional to stop thinking that you're banging Barbie. It makes masturbation romantic and intimate. At least (to round out this thread) it's sex with someone you love.
Watching this play out in the media wants me to go all Dudley Manlove on them.
https://youtu.be/InO2o5KHPiY?t=56s
“Bay Area Gal advised me that she would accept into our household a sex robot that looked like Burt Reynolds from Smokey and the Bandit circa 1977.”
My wife ordered one of those and got “the hand” coming up out of the river in “Deliverance.”
I'm outta here. Before "Unkown" shows up.
Peace.
@Althouse, time for you to bring back out the famous Madison bumper sticker
Alternatives will lead to more civil and decent relationships.
Eventually those that choose robots will not breed and the people who prefer relationships will breed. There will be a need for breeders for a couple more decades.
While I don't have an issue with sexbots--wouldn't mind having one, myself ;-)--, what concerns me is that there will be child-bots and a huge market for them. While it might be better than these perverts using actual children, the idea gives me the creeps. I remember standing in a checkout line one time behind a geezer buying a life-sized little girl doll. He explained to everyone around that it was for his granddaughter. If it really had been, he probably would not have felt the need to explain. Child porn and child sex trafficking is a big problem and I hate to see more on the market to feed these disgusting perversions.
Bill Peschel said...
I can't believe people are having this stupid conversation like it's an existential threat to the human race.
This is not some nearly real flesh-and-blood beauty we're talking about banging here. It's a soft mannequin.
For now. In 20 years(less) they will be better than real life. And when I say better that encompasses pretty much everything. Personality. Geniality. Intelligence. Physicality.
The question will be what happens to the non-augmented humans.
Sex is a human right. Ergo, the gummint should have a plan guaranteeing (and mandating) sex insurance for every Amerikan, whether he/she wants it or not. What could be bad about that?
I suppose people could swap them, just like real life.
This article is going to wonderful fodder for the manosphere.
All the articles on sex robots written by feminists are hilarious.
Hey Laura Bates: Robots aren't people. Having sex with a sex-bot, therefore, does not give one "access" to ANY kind of "woman", since women are humans, which is to say, they're not robots.
I can see it now: sex bots + artificial wombs == men no longer have to put up with women's crap. Want to have a guy take you out on a date, buy things for you, maybe marry you and support you with his pay check? Gosh, guess you're actually going to have to offer him something of value in exchange. Otherwise? Enjoy your vibrator
Apple's Siri was the gateway to all this. People talking with Siri as a person entry level conditioning.
Pretty interesting Joaquin Phoenix movie on this subject "Her"
Actually, this may be more significant -
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/04/25/525044286/scientists-create-artificial-womb-that-could-help-prematurely-born-babies
Much more "Brave New World" than sexbots.
Also more disruptive of human sexual relations, and social arrangements.
In Blade Runner, as I recall, Darryl Hannah and Sean Young were cyborgs, but not specifically designated as "sex cyborgs."
And, I think that is discriminatory and violates Title IX or something.
"since women are humans, which is to say, they're not robots."
When I was dating (yea these many years ago), this was not always an obvious point.
I don't think I was doing Turing tests, but I might have been.
It's just like "The Handmaid's Tale"! Oh, the robotity!
If the first sex robot comes out looking like Lena Dunham, I'm done man. Might as well join the fucking Peace Corps.
gregq said...
Gosh, guess you're actually going to have to offer him something of value in exchange. Otherwise? Enjoy your vibrator
Just so you know this is going to go both ways. And there are going to be a lot fewer jobs for men or anyone in the future.
If a guy has a good imagination and a hand, he could save a bunch of money by not getting a sexbot.
These Hot Sex Robots brought to you by the US Division of Human Rights, the Council on Basic Sexual Rights, the US Dept of Agriculture, The American Green Energy-Sexual Healing Reinvestment Act of 2019, and The AI SexBot Workers Union.
Would you buy a beautiful sexbot that looked like Scarlett Johansson but talked like Barbara Boxer?
"In Blade Runner, as I recall, Darryl Hannah and Sean Young were cyborgs, but not specifically designated as "sex cyborgs."
That's not quite right - Pris (Darryl Hannah) was supposed to be a "pleasure model".
Re: rcocean:
"Because that is what it is being subverted into here."
What terrible English! Is this person an ESL writer?
Oh wait, he's an American "professor".
Well, never mind then.
I think this entire bit:
"But is the basic human right to a sexual life the same as a universal entitlement to a young, attractive woman? Because that is what it is being subverted into here."
Is actually the NYT author, Laura Bates, not Professor Saruman.
Robotic sex goats would be a big hit in the Middle East.
It might ease tensions and save lives.
"Is actually the NYT author, Laura Bates, not Professor Saruman."
Yeah, the NYT. Gore Vidal said it was written by Germans who knew English as a 2nd language.
Halle Berry said it best in Monster's Ball: "Make me feel good."
The rape motif in that NYT article is insane.
"Robotic sex goats would be a big hit in the Middle East."
They're working on a new model that will always a virgin every time. A girl, not a goat.
There’s a basic human right that everybody’s entitled to a sexual life.
We have a right to pursue happiness. There is no right to achieve happiness.
And there are going to be a lot fewer jobs for men or anyone in the future.
Holy Non-Sequitur, Batman!
Funny how this same anti-sexbot logic wasn't applied to vibrators five years ago.
I guess that was "different". Somehow.
A basic human right cannot exist without consent. Perhaps Sharkey is thinking of natural rights. For example, elective abortion is a natural right, and a sociopolitical rite, to deny the basic human right to life. So, the only human right to a sexual life is either autosexual or with the consent of a partner, perhaps a young, attractive woman.
scientists-create-artificial-womb-that-could-help-prematurely-born-babies
If they can carry it forward, or backward, as it were, to conception, then it would permanently break the monopoly held by female-females. Then add products from the technopornographic industry, would be a revolutionary disruption that outpaces the feminist and transgender anthropogenic climate changes. Of course, Planned Parenthood would have an incubator in every office, which would fund their Mengele division; but, their abortion business would suffer, so they should Plan for that eventual progression.
As I remember it, the reason why porn was suppressed during my youth was because it was claimed that porn consumption would lead suggestible young minds into depravity and rape. It doesn't have that effect, but it must have some effect although nobody knows exactly what the effect is-- besides, of course, the obvious one.......Sex robots are still somewhat uncanny, but we're still in the primitive, developmental era. They're going to get a lot better.....Men and women aren't perfectly designed to groove on and complement one another. There's some rough congruity but it takes a lot of work to get all the moving parts in sync. I'm not talking strictly about the physical aspects, but also the emotional and spititual aspects of the apparatus. However, there's an algorithm out there that can make you happy. It's very difficult for a real woman to emulate and combine the attractive characteristics of Audrey Hepburn in Roman Holiday, Kim Novak in Picnic, and Marilyn Monroe in Bus Stop, but that's not such a huge huge problem for a computer to overcome. The robot itself can come with interchangeable heads to facilitate the fantasy.......Women are quite right to be hostile to this technology. John Henry had no reason to welcome the introduction of the pile driver, and Miranda may find herself superfluous in this brave, new world.
Your right to a sexual life is your right......or your left, unless you are ambidextrous.
Everyone has the right to seek a sexual life, just as everyone has the right to pursue happiness. And the two for many are closely related. Doesn't mean you're going to get either.
And if you're seeking the sexual life, be sure not to cross that line into sexual harassment!
On the other hand, a robot can carry a mattress on its back for an indefinite distance without getting tired.
For the last time. Can I get one that looks like a young Gene Tierney?
As I remember it, the reason why porn was suppressed during my youth was because it was claimed that porn consumption would lead suggestible young minds into depravity and rape. It doesn't have that effect, but it must have some effect although nobody knows exactly what the effect is-- besides, of course, the obvious one...
The rise of the internet coincides with a 50% drop in the number of rapes per capita.
That was always just an excuse. You can't very well tell people "porn should be illegal because I don't like it. "God doesn't like it" used to work before most people lost their faith. But if you can convince them it might, in the absence of any evidence, increase the number of rapes then you can get it banned. Animated child porn is the same thing - everybody (well, almost everybody) thinks it's icky, and even though it doesn't hurt anyone we can still ban this icky thing we don't like if we can use imagined harms as an excuse.
"Frigid Farrah is not alone in providing her user with a replica of a human partner without the [unending] complication of [constantly and retroactively revocable]consent."
Compare a man to a nonessential machine, but be surprised that he finds use for one.
"Whoa. Wait. Sex is a human right?"
Isn't everything that might require some effort?
"Well, I for one, welcome our new Sex Robot Overlords."
I look forward to worshipping at the alter also.
"Funny how this same anti-sexbot logic wasn't applied to vibrators five years ago."
I pulled so many vibrators out of guys' assholes that I was going to write the maker and ask that they include a ring in the base to make it easier to grab and pull out.
I was going to write a paper of foreign objects removed from rectums. I used to take photos of them the next morning.
I never got around to it.
The best was a badminton shuttlecock.
Just so you know this is going to go both ways.
"What do you mean all the sex robots are insisting they're bisexual? ... I did not-... Yes I remember you asking if I wanted them set up for AC and DC-oh, for heaven's sake...."
Please prove you're not a robot
Well, I'm commenting on a blog and not having sex. So.
The longer we get a look at Feminism, the stronger the case is that it isn't so much about women's rights as making men as miserable as possible out of some sort of sick revenge for not being asked out to the prom.
She glides into the room in a size 6 cocktail dress and heels. She's carrying a bottle of your favorite white burgundy and a glass. She pours you a glass and hands it to you. Her auburn hair is piled up on ................ green ....... long ...... bzzzt bzzzzzzt. Slap slap. Thanks, I needed that.
Sgt Thor: "Can we have sex?"
Galaxina: "Yes. It's in the catalog."
Galaxina (A sex robot): [Thor and Galaxina are making out when he sadly stops] What's the matter?
Sgt. Thor: Children. We can't have children.
Galaxina: Yes we can. They're in the catalogue too.
the notion that sex robots could reduce rape is deeply flawed. It suggests that male violence against women is innate and inevitable, and can be only mitigated, not prevented.
It doesn't suggest that, it flows from the fact that we know that.
We know one in two hundred men on Earth are male-line descendants of Genghis Khan, which means we know a much larger percentage of the population is descended from him through other lines. And that's just from one mass rapist (and, of course, his many rapist descendants). If Ms. Bates understood and accepted evolutionary biology (including the related mathematics), instead of merely happening to "believe in evolution", she'd understand that a tendency to engage in an activity that is so evolutionarily successful is going to be strongly promoted by natural selection.
If you genuinely understand the human mind is evolved, you know the only way to eliminate the trait rather than mitigate its expression would be mass eugenics. All other conclusions are ruled out unless you reject evolution by natural selection.
And if you do reject evolution by natural selection, well, your choices are either ridiculous and thoroughly-disproved pseudosciences like Lysenkoism, or untestable religious beliefs. So go ask your priest, minister, rabbi, imam, bhikkhu, or equivalent if man is going to stop sinning short of divine intervention. Hopefully they'll be polite enough not to laugh at you.
When the NYT prints an article about the trouble with sex robots, I expect the author has used a sex robot.
And if the author brings up the issue of male simulated rape with their robot, I expect she would also consider women fantasizing about being raped while using their dildo.
Imagine the Used SexBot market. Kids trying to unload their late Dad's sex doll (or maybe he wants to be buried with her). A low-mileage model owned by the Little Old Lady from Pasadena, who only used it for a Quickies after Church. The heavily-modified convertible model which tracked the former owner's Transition, with plenty of Spare Parts. Think of the guys at the dealership detailing the off-lease models for resale.
No Laslo tag? No Laslo comments. Rip off!
They prefer anime and tentacle porn and other weird stuff to interaction with real live females.
Women are definitely privileged in being able to get by in life without having anything even approximating an honest-to-goodness, real personality.
So I'm not saying that I see their point, but, I see their point.
But by the time I figured all that out I was no longer horny enough to fuck a tentacle. Or a cartoon. Can't even imagine how that would work.
You could say it's cultural - and to an extent it is. And then you realize there are conventions for young adults all across America who dress up as superheroes (a now "mainstream" thing) and freaks who admire each other based on belonging to a clique that dresses up as furry woodland creatures.
People have apparently bred all traces of the mammalian out of themselves.
Ya hear me, Don Trump? SAD!!
Although, he probably identifies with the part where they dress up as superheroes.
So what's the consensus? Men prefer cartoons and women prefer cats?
Will Consumer Reports rate them?
""'There’s a basic human right that everybody’s entitled to a sexual life,' Professor Sharkey said.""
How is that so?
I suppose saying "there is no basic human right to a sexual life and you've gotta work hard to get one" wouldn't get pass the missing public editor. The public doesn't want to hear that.
But it would make more sense if your goal is to ban sex robots. As it is, Professor Sharkey seems to be saying that sex robots are great, so long as they are old and unattractive.
I imagine Eve and Adam confronted by God:
"There's a basic human right that everybody's entitled to an apple," says Professor Adam.
he probably identifies with the part where they dress up as superheroes
Not every hero wears a cape.
Not every hero wears a cape.
True. Some wear toupee-shaped hair plugs.
Pompadour-shaped.
Will Consumer Reports rate them?
With cruel neutrality.
Like a fish needs a bicycle, I thought.
Those happy fish sure do seem worried; can't imagine why.
Of everyone has a right to a sex life then others can be forced to provide that sex life. No one who believes in consent can believe it is OK to force others to provide a sex life for a person, so therefore the belief that people have a right to a sex lose is incompatible with a belief in consent.
People have a right to a sex life in a rape culture. The quoted professor is objectively supporting rape. Shameful.
The longer we get a look at Feminism, the stronger the case is that it isn't so much about women's rights as making men as miserable as possible out of some sort of sick revenge for not being asked out to the prom
Third wave for sure.
Upon my word, Mike K has had an interesting life.
"Thank you for calling Sensual Technologies, how may I help you?"
"Yeah: my new sex doll -- she's already broken."
"I'm sorry to hear that, sir. We, of course, will honor the warranty. May I ask what is wrong with the doll?"
"Her asshole is broken."
"Excuse me?"
"Yeah. Her asshole: it's all ripped apart. There are, like, wires coming out."
"Which model did you purchase?"
"The Jennifer Aniston model."
"Well, I think I see the problem, sir. The Jennifer Aniston model doesn't do anal."
A sex doll that doesn't do anal? What the hell is that shit?"
"I'm afraid Ms. Aniston's licensing agreement prevents the doll from having an anus."
"What? Jennifer Aniston doesn't have an anus?"
"Her doll doesn't, sir."
So I paid eight-thousand dollars for a Jennifer Aniston sex-doll and it doesn't even do anal?"
"I'm afraid not sir. It's not uncommon with many of the celebrity licensing agreements. For instance, Reese Witherspoon doesn't have an anus."
"But I don't care about Reese Witherspoon's ass: I want to ass-fuck Jennifer Aniston, with that haircut she had back on that TV show."
"I'm afraid there is no Anal Upgrade planned for that model in the foreseeable future."
"Then can I return the doll and get one that DOES do anal?"
"I'm sorry, sir, but it sounds like the damage your doll sustained is not included in the warranty."
"What?"
"Sir, you cannot ass-fuck a doll that has no anus. Of COURSE you broke it."
"Uh... Is there a dude I can talk to?"
"A dude?"
"Yeah: a guy. I don't really feel comfortable discussing my doll's ass-damage with a woman."
"Excuse me?"
"It's just that I think a guy would understand better. You know: about ass-fucking chicks."
"Sir, I'd be glad to sell you a doll that does anal, I assure you."
"But I already paid for THIS doll."
"Maybe you could sell it to somebody second-hand. Does the vagina still work?"
"The vagina? I don't know, I never tried it."
"Okay..."
"Well, what dolls do you have that DO do anal?"
"Currently we are proud to carry the anal-action-enabled model of Sarah Jessica Parker."
"Uh... what other models do you have that do anal?"
"That's the only one, I'm afraid."
"You mean if I want to fuck a celebrity doll in the ass it's gotta be Sarah Jessica Parker?"
"Yes, sir."
"But I don't WANT to fuck Sarah Jessica Parker -- even in the ass!"
"I understand, sir. I'm sorry I couldn't have been of help."
"I guess I'll just have to go fuck Jennifer Aniston in the vagina, then. This IS a disappointment."
"I'm sorry, sir...."
"Yeah: me too..."
I am Laslo.
If I was an alien from out of space studying human behavior, have sex with robots makes no evolutionary sense. Well maybe it does, guys willing to fake it for pleasure would make poor sexual mates for real women.
“Proof of Sex Robots in Pre-Historic Times”,
published in “Social Text,” by Alan Sokal and Dr. Frank-N-Furter.
For satire-impaired feds, this is stolen (without permission) from Herzog, “Cave of Forgotten Dreams.”
“Drink, you fink,
oh,
fiddle-de-dink,
I can dance
With a drink in my hand”
On a autobiographical note, I too had a woman like this once: for about 30 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILbvtB_0pKk
That's a reefer madness article.
I find the idea of sex robots disturbing, but isolating the most extreme use of sex robots as the argument against them means that Ms. Bates offers nothing moral or ethical to work with.
I will add, to Ms. Bates credit, that she quotes Professor Sharkey in order to dismiss him. It's just disappointing that she refusing to challenge his premise.
Laslo,
"But I don't WANT to fuck Sarah Jessica Parker -- even in the ass!"
True prophets do not run away from their feelings.
... liar!
What's wrong with tentacle porn. Octopuses are cute.
Sandra Fluke was framing sex as a human right when she equated the behavior to a disease.
If I was an alien from out of space studying human behavior, have sex with robots makes no evolutionary sense.
Neither does using a vibrator..but's OK..right?
Well maybe it does, guys willing to fake it for pleasure would make poor sexual mates for real women.
Remind me again which sex does the majority of faking it when it comes to sex.....
Sandra Fluke is only marginally more attractive than Lena Dunham. I submit that neither should serve as prototypes for our future female sex robots - under any circumstance.
"If I was an alien from out of space studying human behavior, have sex with robots makes no evolutionary sense."
Nor does sex with each other “make sense.” With such sewage channels running plumb through our major recreational areas.
If you are freaking out about what some man does alone with an electronic gadget, what you are really worrying about is thought crime.
"Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Fappiness.
It's in the Declaration.
"Well, I for one, welcome our new Sex Robot Overlords."
I look forward to worshipping at the alter also.
Could we leave the transsexuals out of this discussion?
Show me a beautiful sex-bot, and I'll show you a man who's tired of fucking her.
This is a continuation of the discussions in the Guardian after "Humans" and "Westworld" aired. The only correct position was to maintain that there should be no sex with robots/gynoids/snyths and that the next Doctor Who had to be female.
Maugham in Cakes and Ale, describes the second Mrs. Driffield as seemingly "without a back passage", just like Jennifer Anniston. IMO it's Maugham's best work, nothing like Of Human Bondage and Domination.
Wiki: "In The Fine Art of Literary Mayhem, Myrick Land asserts that Cakes and Ale ruined the last 11 years of [Hugh] Walpole's life and destroyed his reputation as a writer."
A good day's work for a novel.
Well, I would say "but for the grace of god, go I." I am so glad that none of my sexual perversions include pedophilia. I like full figured women (not obese), with all the curves in the right places (what women see in men is a mystery to me).
I can't imagine what it must be like for a Nambla guy: it's natural, it's normal, but we are shunned by society. As they should and must be.
I'm guessing the impulse is no different for you and me. How are these people meant to get their sexual outlet? Give them the outlet they need, not moralizing. Meanwhile, they cross the line, execute them. Or fake the execution so they won't consider it: whatever it takes.
"Thank you for calling Sensual Technologies, how may I help you?"
"Yeah: I called you yesterday -- I'm the guy who broke the ass of my Jennifer Aniston model."
"Yes, I remember, The Jennifer Aniston model does not do anal."
"So I learned. Anyway, I was trying to fuck her from behind -- you know, in the vagina...
"Yes, sir..."
"...but she's defective that way, too -- her knees won't bend."
"I'm afraid they don't, sir. Jennifer Aniston's licensing agreement is that her dolls will not do doggy-style."
"What the fuck?"
"I'm afraid that is Ms. Aniston's wishes. She is a 'missionary-position-only' doll."
"Missionary-position-only? What kind of sex doll is this?"
"She doesn't do oral sex, either: Ms. Aniston was quite specific in her doll's characteristics."
"So you're saying my Jennifer Aniston sex doll is some kind of stuck-up prude?"
"We only make the dolls, sir. Also, make sure and wear a condom when having relations with your Jennifer Aniston doll."
"A condom? Are you serious?"
"I am quite serious, sir. Ms. Aniston did not want men ejaculating inside her: as such, she doesn't have a semen reservoir tank. Ejaculation inside her will void the warranty."
"But I thought I already voided the warranty when I tried to fuck her in the ass."
"Good point. At this juncture, I believe the warranty is moot."
"Well, what about blowjobs?"
"I'm afraid there is no oral entry in the Jennifer Aniston model, sir."
"So let me get this straight: my Jennifer Aniston sex doll will only do missionary-position sex with me wearing a condom."
"That IS how she is designed, sir. It could be worse: the Britney Spears model only does hand jobs."
"You're kidding. Who would buy THAT?"
"Well, it is designed as the "(Hit Me) Baby One More Time" model."
"So?"
"You know: the Catholic schoolgirl uniform, with the bare midriff?"
"OK, that was kinda hot, I guess..."
"Well, sir, she was sixteen at the time."
"Uh... isn't that illegal or something?"
"That seems to be a gray area, legally, with sex dolls."
"But she only does hand-jobs, right?"
"Well, I guess you could also engage in frottage."
"Frottage? What is frottage?"
"Well, with frottage you could, say, rub up against her buttocks in a stimulating manner."
"Oh, I get it: like I do to chicks on the bus, sometimes."
"Okay..."
"I'm going to have to think about that one..."
"Well, give us a call sir if we can further assist you in any of your sex doll needs..."
I am Laslo.
buwaya said...
Actually, this may be more significant -
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/04/25/525044286/scientists-create-artificial-womb-that-could-help-prematurely-born-babies
You missed the big point: Once we have functional artificial wombs, "viability" will be "at conception".
What happens to Roe v Wade then?
Where the hell do people get these ideas? There's a "basic human right" to damn near anything these days.
I think there's a basic human right to freedom with respect to things that belong inherently to the individual, and sex is part of that. It belongs with freedom of thought and freedom of religion and freedom to take care of your own children and freedom to decide how much medical treatment to accept. It's not an absolute right, but it is a right. That's not to say that the government must provide you with sex any more than it is to say that the government must build you a church or bankroll your newspaper.
But if the question is: If you build a robot and want to have sex with it, can the government forbid it or restrict software that has the robot resisting? — then I'm prepared to argue that the government's regulation violates your right of privacy.
Or, if you prefer: Your freedom of expression. Or: the limits on search and seizure.
belong inherently to the individual, and sex is part of that.
Right now, sex still involves two or more individuals.
Wasn't Santorum's comment correct, that the overturn of Hardwick meant anything goes?
Ann Althouse said...I think there's a basic human right to freedom with respect to things that belong inherently to the individual, and sex is part of that.
--
Is screwing a robot (device) "sex" or essentially masturbation?
Walter, the robot has rights!
Well-Endowed by its creator.
OK, so when we say you have a basic human right to, say, health care, what we mean is that you have the freedom to use whatever health care you can acquire on your own. Since we mean rights to indicate not something that must be provided to you, but only something that we as a people cannot prevent you from providing for, and using, yourself.
Fair??
The right to free speech means I get to say ugly things that offend you but you have to suffer that offense. You don't have to bankroll my speech.
The right to freedom of religion means I get to worship as I see fit and you can't stop me event if you think I am wrong. You don't have to bankroll my church.
The right to a sex life means I can pursue sex in whatever way I see fit and you can't stop me. You don't have to bankroll my pursuit of sex and you can't be forced to participate.
The right to healthcare means...you have to bankroll my healthcare?? Bit of a problem there.
I grok the difference btw positive and negative rights. I object to those who conflate the two ideas and refuse to make clear which they mean as a method to win an argument without actually engaging with the problem.
I think there's a basic human right to freedom with respect to things that belong inherently to the individual, and sex is part of that.
This is a different framing than Professor Sharkey's statement. It is one thing to say everyone should have sexual freedom. It is very different to say that everyone has a right to a sexual life.
What bothers me about Ms. Bates' analysis is that she's attempting to define an avenue for government regulation of sex robots based on some sloppy utilitarian sums. Her idea is that if a sufficiently realistic robot is used in some way that may trigger sociopathic behavior outside of the realm of sexual privacy, the law has the right to intervene.
This is a reductive and unimaginative argument. Much more interesting, I think, are the robot and android questions.
In Star Wars, are robots people or machines? The human characters have rich interactions with their robot companions. Robots are autonomous, but also clearly subordinate. I'd argue that Star Wars robots are essentially very smart pets. Lassie. Trigger. Which leads to what I think is a more interesting question than the legal one: as humanoid robots became increasingly realistic, what kind of relationship develops between the robot and the people that own them? Not sociopathic people that Bates focuses on, but normal people?
In Blade Runner, androids are created for multiple uses include combat, police work, and sex. At what point does the simulation of intelligence in a robot cross over to artificial intelligence? This is when subordinating the robot becomes ethically strained. Is this even possible? Not at the moment, but speculatively it's the problem that Philip K. Dick drew up.
"Right now, sex still involves two or more individuals. "
False.
You think masturbation doesn't belong to the realm of the individual?
I don't care if you want to use the word "sex" to refer only to "intercourse" (i.e., a flowing between). But the right of privacy has to do with the intimacy of one's own body, such as decisions about medical treatments and whether to go through with a pregnancy. It encompasses masturbation whether you want to call it "sex" or not. I see the linguistic interest in disagreeing with people who say things like "I had sex 10 times last week," when they just masturbated, but that's irrelevant to this inquiry.
But if the question is: If you build a robot and want to have sex with it, can the government forbid it or restrict software that has the robot resisting? — then I'm prepared to argue that the government's regulation violates your right of privacy.
So now the 14th Amendment includes a right to rape a robot?
..and a right to masturbate?
"Is screwing a robot (device) "sex" or essentially masturbation?"
As I just said, it doesn't matter. But as a matter of word usage, I would say "sex education" should cover masturbation. And a desire to masturbate is a sexual feeling. "Sex" as shorthand for "sexual intercourse" is more or less just slang anyway.
We know that at the time that the 14th Amendment was written, the broad consensus in the U.S. was that masturbation was sinful and unhealthy, that abortion was murder and sex with robots inconceivable. Yet somehow Congress managed to write, and the States to pass, an Amendment to the Constitution that granted rights to all of these things, without mentioning any of them.
The right is to be free from government intrusion into what belongs to the individual.
Does anyone think the government has a legitimate power to regulate masturbation that is done in private?
Does anyone thing the government has a legitimate power to regulate masturbation that is done in private?
I don't..because the Constitution never gave that power to the government. I believe in enumerated powers.
You don't, but apparently only because of some imaginary right to privacy created by activist justices.
Here's a real-life proposed Texas law:
"Sec. 173.010. FINES RELATED TO MASTURBATORY EMISSIONS... (a) Emissions outside of a woman’s vagina, or created outside of a health or medical facility, will be charged a $100 civil penalty for each emission, and will be considered an act against an unborn child, and failing to preserve the sanctity of life."
Constitutional?
"I don't..because the Constitution never gave that power to the government. I believe in enumerated powers."
I'm talking about state government.
"We know that at the time that the 14th Amendment was written, the broad consensus in the U.S. was that masturbation was sinful and unhealthy, that abortion was murder and sex with robots inconceivable. Yet somehow Congress managed to write, and the States to pass, an Amendment to the Constitution that granted rights to all of these things, without mentioning any of them."
Read the Declaration of Independence. We are born with rights. We have rights because of our humanity. In various places in constitutional text, there are explicit directions not to abridge these rights.
" the broad consensus in the U.S. was that masturbation was sinful and unhealthy"
We have the liberty to do many, many things that are sinful and unhealthy.
It is the realm of religion to speak of sin. To say it is sin means you look to religion as the answer. To look to religion is to look somewhere other than to the government.
As for health, that is for the individual (unless you're talking about controlling the spread of disease or about paying for treatments). The body itself reacts if you do what is unhealthy. It's its own enforcement.
What the 14th amendment does it protect liberty, to keep govt out of what inherently belongs to the individual. That it's a matter of religion and health underscores that this is something for the individual.
I'm talking about state government.
Excuse me, I missed where you made that distinction. I guess I was confused by:
It belongs with freedom of thought and freedom of religion and freedom to take care of your own children and freedom to decide how much medical treatment to accept. It's not an absolute right, but it is a right. That's not to say that the government must provide you with sex any more than it is to say that the government must build you a church or bankroll your newspaper.
I just assumed that you meant "federal government" when you said "government".
My bad.
In any case my reply would then be that it depends on the text of each of the fifty state Constitutions....which is why your side usually falls back on the 14th Amendment so the federal government can bigfoot the State governments. You can understand why I was confused.
Read the Declaration of Independence.
The Declaration, as wonderful as it is, is dicta. It has no legal force.
Read the Declaration of Independence. We are born with rights. We have rights because of our humanity. In various places in constitutional text, there are explicit directions not to abridge these rights.
See? As soon as we start discussing state governments and constitutions, you immediately resort to the federal Constitution.
Where's Ken Starr when we need him to clarify our definitions?
Does anyone think the government has a legitimate power to regulate masturbation that is done in private?
I'll bet it was illegal sometime somewhere, maybe not the USA, thank God and the Founding Wankers.
"Right now, sex still involves two or more individuals. "
False.
Insert(!) rude Cheney quote here
In any case, I reject the idea that an Amendment designed to extend pre-existing federal protections of rights to the States can be used to justify the creation of new federal protections by activist judges.
Ann Althouse said...
The right is to be free from government intrusion into what belongs to the individual.
Really? Then why don't i have a right to commit suicide? Is it not my life?
For that matter, I don't see how the War on Drugs and an actual right to freedom "from government intrusion into what belongs to the individual" can coexist. Why can't I shoot up heroin in the privacy of my own home? For that matter, why don't I have the right to shoot up Human Growth Hormone in the privacy of my own home?
I guess the impulse is no different to you and me. How do these people get sex channels? Give the sex doll the export they need, not morality.
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