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৩৬৮টি মন্তব্য:
«সবচেয়ে পুরাতন ‹পুরাতন 368 এর 201 – থেকে 368@Unknown To help you make your point you need to make your links work. Maybe this will help.
She better be a Russian agent or some illegal shit was done under the Patriot Act, and if she was, the Russians were fucking with Trump.
If the quality of lefty insights on this thread are indicative of the Dem party as a whole, well, then there is no mystery as to their wildly long losing streak.
There seems to be such a thing as fighting for your chance to fail big time.
Nice work trolls.
Whether or not you think it's conclusive there's a lot of evidence here and it's appropriate for Mueller to get to the bottom of it.
Since the bottom has already been reached, it's time for Mueller and his merry band of Democrats to be dismissed and never heard from again.
Either it's abuse of the Patriot Act, or collusion with British spy agencies.
There is no evidence of any crimes that has been made available.
I believe that's much in dispute. The email chain is evidence of a possible crime. I think so until the investigators say it's not.
"I think those Powerline people are on drugs."
Yep. Better revoke their law degrees and numerous years of being one of the go-to blogs on legal and political issues.
Some bint from Pasadena has spoken.
God bless the trolls.
So if the Fuller Brush man knocks on your door and you answer, you are guilty of solicitation?
Depends. Did you invite him to come in?
Trump is not going to be impeached. He's not even going to be inconvenienced.
The new Trump dirtburger, "we're loving it".
Blogger Unknown said...
"I trust Rick Hasen of the Election Law blog to be far better informed on election law than you Hombre."
Of course you do, Unknown. Confirmation bias is what keeps you ignorant.
I think Brookie is spent. He's just repeating over and over that the political class knows what's best and we should not question authority. This is what liberalism has become.
Channeling my inner Bernie Sanders, I just want to say this: I am sick and tired of hearing about Don Jr.'s emails.
Brookzene said...
There is no evidence of any crimes that has been made available.
I believe that's much in dispute. The email chain is evidence of a possible crime. I think so until the investigators say it's not.
That is pure Stalinist.
Name the statute that was broken. This has nothing to do with some hack investigators opinion. A law was broken or not.
He's just repeating over and over that the political class knows what's best and we should not question authority.
Have no idea wtf you are talking about Sample. Look, why don't YOU make an argument instead of repeating over and over and over again Who released the emails?? Patriot Act!!! I get it. You think that's the big story here. Fine but so far nobody's indicated they are buying it that I can see. Not even those on Trump's side.
Trump Jr. released the emails first. Three unnamed sources apparently had information about the email and they shared it with NYTimes. If you find out who they were and how they knew what was in the emails, do let us know. All I know is they were apparently spot on.
Probably people in the White House who wanted to see the sanctions kept on Russia. Or maybe Steve Bannon was one of them - he pretty much hates Kushner, doesn't he?
Anyway you get and report back to us. Or at least make a coherent case why I, as a citizen, should give a fuck.
It doesn't matter whether dirt on Trump is gathered legally or illegally, abuse of the Patriot Act, collusion with foreign intelligence agencies, but dirt on Hillary must only be obtained through the most sanitary means!
That is pure Stalinist.
EVERYTHING is pure Stalinist to you, you ignorant fuck.
Seriously. Go somewhere else with your bullshit.
Brookzene: "EVERYTHING is pure Stalinist to you, you ignorant f***."
LOL
The inevitable heartache of heartbreak.
This is probably a dumb and repetitive question, but humor me, an Althouse hillbilly.
Supposition and personal hatred aside, what is the evidence that ANY crime was committed?
Brookzene: ". Look, why don't YOU make an argument instead of repeating over and over and over again Who released the emails??"
Sorry Beria Jr, it's up to you to make the case, and all you have now is the same as all you've had all along....nothing.
But you've still got your hate which should be all you need to keep you warm at night.
Republicans in DC want Trump out so they can have Pence.
Democrats in DC want Trump out so they can have Hillary.
Republican voters voted overwhelmingly against the GOPe and lawfully elected Trump. Trump has lost exactly 0 votes from people who actually voted for him and his support is greater today than it was in 2016.
Democrats are looking at honest polls for 2018. It is going to be a wipe out. They think they can convince a few republican traitors to help them get rid of Trump in a Faustian bargain with this bullshit. What they don't get is that the only thing republican voters hate more than democrats are the vichy republicans in DC.
We out here know that 93% of DC voted for Hillary. That means almost all of the republicans in DC voted for Hillary too. We hated DC before we sent Trump and that is why we sent Trump.
Impeach Trump and we will do more than proclaim our dislike for DC.
I am sick and tired of hearing about Don Jr.'s emails.
Chain,chain,chain, chain of collusion confirming electronic correspondence.
Every chain, has got a weak link
I might be weak child, but I'll give you dirtburger from MiniDonald.
Achilles: "Republican voters voted overwhelmingly against the GOPe and lawfully elected Trump. Trump has lost exactly 0 votes from people who actually voted for him and his support is greater today than it was in 2016."
Indeed.
Or at least make a coherent case why I, as a citizen, should give a fuck.
That's right, if you aren't doing anything wrong, you shouldn't care who reads your emails, right? Who cares if Obama abused the Patriot Act? Certainly not you! Since abuse of the Patriot act, or collusion with foreign spy agencies are the two channels through which the emails were likely obtained, and since these point to Democrat abuse of power, your incuriousness on the matter is understandable.
Like I said, she better be an actual Russian agent.
Fine but so far nobody's indicated they are buying it that I can see. Not even those on Trump's side.
So you come here to parrot other people's thoughts? Why bother? We can read them anywhere on the web? I come here to try to figure out what actually happened.
Here's the bottom line. No matter what happens, Trump supporters think the Russians are less dangerous than the Democrats, the Media, the US Deep State, Neocons, the European Union, and perhaps even The Pope.
Simple. Truthful.
Claire McCaskill is trailing every possible GOP challenger for the 2018 Senate race. Bet the Russians are helping her.
Brookenze said...I believe that's much in dispute. The email chain is evidence of a possible crime. I think so until the investigators say it's not.
What crime? Attempted receipt of information?
I read the email and didn't see anything saying the person offering the info was offering stolen goods or had committed any other crime themselves. I'm not sure what crime Don Jr. is supposed to have committed based on his account of the meeting...and the email he released supports his account. I mean, that's probably why he felt like releasing it was a good idea!
Presumably (and maybe this is a big presumption) his lawyers agreed that by releasing the email he wasn't giving anyone evidence of a crime. I'm not saying rich people don't do extremely dumb things, but if this email chain is evidence of a crime it'd be pretty dumb to voluntarily release it. Possibly the investigators already have the email, in which case it wouldn't really matter in terms of evidence.
Anyway since you think this is evidence of a possible crime, what crime is that?
Brookzene said...
That is pure Stalinist.
EVERYTHING is pure Stalinist to you, you ignorant fuck.
Seriously. Go somewhere else with your bullshit.
You are investigating someone looking for a crime. You cannot name a crime that has been committed but you believe if you look long enough you will find one.
Hypothetical:
If Don Jr. had met with Vladimir Putin and Vladimir had given him the details of the deal Russia made with Hillary where she allowed Russia to buy 20% of the North American Uranium for several tens of millions in donations to the Clinton Foundation what law would that have broken?
Stalinists.
HD: "Anyway since you think this is evidence of a possible crime, what crime is that?"
The crime of having participated in the Annointed One's defeat.
Chain,chain,chain, chain of collusion
And here all this time I thought "collusion" required two parties. There was only one party here, acting on behalf of his candidate's honest interest in uncovering illegality by his opponent. The Russian govt was not involved, so the idea of collusion is a busted flush. And if they were involved, they were fucking with the Trump campaign.
Here's the bottom line. No matter what happens, Trump supporters think the Russians are less dangerous
Private Russian citizens, generally yes, Putin's thugacracy, no. There is no link to Putin here. But it's fun to knock down straw men, I am guessing from your gusto in doing so.
I'd imagine the strategy here was to for Don Jr. to release the emails because this type of shit goes on in Washington and campaigns all the time. They've all got dirty inboxes.
There was no gain for Don Jr. to reply to a tabloid guy. Rookie move. He didn't know at the time; his Dad didn't need it.
Releasing the email today was typical Trump ballsy. It's not the way the game is played.
antiphone said...
I am sick and tired of hearing about Don Jr.'s emails.
Chain,chain,chain, chain of collusion confirming electronic correspondence.
Every chain, has got a weak link
I might be weak child, but I'll give you dirtburger from MiniDonald.
"Show me the man and I will show you the crime."
"@Unknown To help you make your point you need to make your links work."
Dummy, I've used hyperlinks for years, see 4:01 PM. I don't always feel like making them. Try to keep up.
Releasing the email today was typical Trump ballsy. It's not the way the game is played.
I love it because it denies them the power to pick and choose the bits that they can tart up in the most anti-Trump way.
Francisco D said...
This is probably a dumb and repetitive question, but humor me, an Althouse hillbilly.
Supposition and personal hatred aside, what is the evidence that ANY crime was committed?
The best I can come up with, Francisco D, is that their agreement to have this meeting is an overt act, so if the crime is something like conspiracy to obtain information illegally gained by some Russian source then the meeting itself is an act in furtherance of that conspiracy.
Now, that doesn't really work, I don't think, since there's no evidence so far that the Trump people intended to gain illegal goods, nor that they knew or should have known that illegal goods were on offer at this meeting, etc. Nor, in fact, were illegal goods actually offered to them at this meeting (by all accounts so far)! Nor am I sure that receiving information obtained via illegal means when one had no connection to the illegal actions themselves is in fact a crime--if it is then tons of journalists (who receive leaked info) are in tons of trouble. I would think you'd have to show that the Trump people did something to cause the illegal actions to happen (offering to pay for the info if it's stolen, or for some quid pro quo in exchange for info illegally gained, etc) and I haven't heard ANYTHING from anyone yet that says the Russians hacked anything BECAUSE the Trump campaign asked them to (or promised to compensate them for doing so, etc).
Anyway all of that seems moot since no actual illegal info was actually offered in this case, so I agree that from the situation so far described (and detailed in the email and account of the meeting) I'm not sure what crime could be prosecuted.
Can anyone name another time info like the Don Jr email was released by the accused party to get out ahead of the story or throw his enemies a curveball?
Only thing I can come up with is the Nixon "Checkers" speech when he was VP.
FSB Agent in charge of Russian hacking: "I have the 33000 emails Hillary illegally put on her personal server ad illegally destroyed to avoid a subpoena."
Don Jr.: "Sweet, see you at noon tomorrow."
Please describe to me what laws would be broken here.
"Show me the man and I will show you the crime."
You may not like Pasadena much but there it is.
If the information really came from the Russian government, as it was purported to Don Jr, and it involved dealings with Hillary, as was claimed, how is any of that "illegal"? Isn't there a little bit of slight of hand going on there too? Even taking their interpretation of the meeting at face value?
No mention of hacked emails, or stuff gathered inside of the United States even.
And I don't even see how the weak charge of "soliciting something of value" can be upheld, even if you accept the interpretation that it even covers speech inside of the United States of America, as it happened in Trump Tower.
Sorry Beria Jr, it's up to you to make the case, and all you have now is the same as all you've had all along....nothing.
But you've still got your hate which should be all you need to keep you warm at night.
I don't have to make a case at all, that's Mueller's job. I don't even have to make Trump look bad. That's Trump's job.
But I like the "hate" accusation. If this gig at Althouse doesn't work out maybe you could find something on campus, eh?
Here's the bottom line. No matter what happens, Trump supporters think the Russians are less dangerous than the Democrats, the Media, the US Deep State, Neocons, the European Union, and perhaps even The Pope.
The Russians are absolutely less dangerous than the intelligence and law enforcement organizations in Washington trying to play kingmaker. Even Democrats should realize this after the CIA leaked emails to embarrass Obama when he crossed them.
Don't forget, Obama using the IRS to punish political opposition was no big deal. The Brits spying on Americans and giving that information to their U.S. counterparts was no big deal.
Meeting with a woman with Russian heritage is a crime.
#LeftistLogicExplained
Seriously. Where's an example besides Don Jr. email chain and "Checkers". Maybe in both cases the hand was forced but...
Ted Kennedy waited until Mary Jo was gone. Bill Clinton probably couldn't believe Monica actually kept the dress. HRC was so desperate to cover up content, the bleach bit stuff cost her the Presidency.
This email release is unbelievable. I think the Trumps are just letting us see the inside of a nothing burger. They know his supporters don't care, and probably understand this country's deep dived more than anyone.
Unity Schmunity.
That's right, if you aren't doing anything wrong, you shouldn't care who reads your emails, right?
How do you know he didn't share the emails with the three people who had knowledge of them. No one said they actually HAD the emails as far as I've seen.
Trump Jr. copied at least two people in on them, right? Maybe he shared them with others.
If you have any evidence of someone hacking his email, if that's what your are trying to allege, then share it. Love to hear it.
Brookzene: "But I like the "hate" accusation. If this gig at Althouse doesn't work out maybe you could find something on campus, eh?"
Sorry to inform you. Only Stalinists like you get jobs on campus.
Or hadn't you noticed that it's always the lefties burning stuff down?
LOL
Brookzene said...
I don't have to make a case at all, that's Mueller's job.
If it wasn't for mindless tools who dutifully carry out the wishes of their masters in complete ignorance nobody would vote for disgusting pieces of shit like Hillary.
Stalin wouldn't have come to power either.
Brookzene:
I want to get this straight, for future reference. Are you saying copying two people into an email chain about which there is a dispute, i.e. whether it might be illegal, makes it more or less likely that Trump, Jr. expected he was participating in criminal behavior?
Blogger Brookzene said...
That is pure Stalinist.
EVERYTHING is pure Stalinist to you, you ignorant fuck.
Seriously. Go somewhere else with your bullshit.
OMG! Somebody is coming unglued ! It's tough when you have to try to make something out of nothing.
You are investigating someone looking for a crime. You cannot name a crime that has been committed but you believe if you look long enough you will find one.
I'm not investigation ANYONE for a crime, dickhead. I've said over and over I don't know if he committed a crime or not. At best I believe the email chain is evidence of a possible crime but that's Mueller's job.
My first response stands. You are one ignorant, deplorable, unredeemable fuck who calls just about everyone and anything not all-out dressed-in-drag for Trump "pure Stalinism"
GTFOH. Go somewhere else. Slut.
I'm missing something. Who hacked Trump Jr's emails in the first place? And who released them?
Isn't hacking a US Citizen without a warrant illegal? Silly me.
The sun must be over the yardarm.
Well, Sexton is an assistant professor of Creative Writing.
Some of his best works are in the cognitive dissonance genre.
Reality Winner leaked to The Intercept so by the standards announced by Leftists today, both Trump, Jr. and the entire The Intercept staff should be arrested.
Do I have that correct?
Francisco D said...
"This is probably a dumb and repetitive question, but humor me, an Althouse hillbilly.
Supposition and personal hatred aside, what is the evidence that ANY crime was committed?"
There is no evidence that a crime was committed. If there was, the mediaswine would have no need of calumny. They have lawyers too.
Signed,
An old prosecutor
Brookzene said...
I'm not investigation ANYONE for a crime, dickhead. I've said over and over I don't know if he committed a crime or not. At best I believe the email chain is evidence of a possible crime but that's Mueller's job.
So you just do what you are told. A good little tool.
My first response stands. You are one ignorant, deplorable, unredeemable fuck who calls just about everyone and anything not all-out dressed-in-drag for Trump "pure Stalinism"
GTFOH. Go somewhere else. Slut.
That was your most coherent argument yet. What crime was committed again?
Brookzene: "My first response stands. You are one ignorant, deplorable, unredeemable fuck who calls just about everyone and anything not all-out dressed-in-drag for Trump "pure Stalinism"
GTFOH. Go somewhere else. Slut."
LOL
Sounds like someone is about 3 highballs into the cocktail hour.
NTTATWWT
“If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”
If it’s what you say
If it’s what you say
If it’s what you say
Look, suppose an email or iphone text or whatever appeared on one of your electronic devices and the "message" contained "ultra sensitive" information sent in the clear. It comes from a sketchy friend. Now it's in your email box. So suppose you disregard it. Then whoever sent it could notify Federal prosecutors and when you say "I disregarded it" the prosecutors, (James Comey's friends), say "prove it." They say: "Maybe you sent a secret message in response and then you met secretly with this Russian who lets himself or herself be named as having sensitive info linking the Russian government to election meddling. Prove you didn't." You can't prove a negative. So instead of disregarding this "I am a Russian conduit" text, you send a message: "If it’s what you say" let's meet. "If it's what you say". You bring two witnesses to the meeting. The meeting breaks up almost at once. Nothing happens. "If it's what you say" - and it wasn't and Donald Jr. can prove it.
Something was intended. Something was being setup. But by who? Was it Ukrainians? Russians? Putin? The Democrats? You're Donald Trump Jr. and you don't know what just happened. Since you do business in Russia you don't accuse Putin of anything. It might not be Putin anyhow. It might be Ukrainians trying to get Paul Manafort. You leave it. Business in Russia is weird, anyhow.
Now we all know that no one, no one, no one ever sent an email or text openly saying they had dirt direct from the Russian government to give to Trump simply because they had dirt direct from the Russian government and they wanted to give it to Trump. And signed their name. That isn't a possibility in this world. The way you transfer dirt is you meet in parking garage and say "My name is Deep Throat, Follow the money." Or you come up to a reporter in an airport and say "my name is Martinez" and pass a brown envelope filled with forgeries. You forge incriminating letters and send them to reporters. You forge a letter and push it into the hand of an American diplomat on the Russian subway and then the KGB suddenly appears and searches the diplomat.
Think about it. How do the Russians work? Think. "I'm from Russian and I'm here to help you?" Is that how Russia does things?
I'm missing something. Who hacked Trump Jr's emails in the first place? And who released them?
Why do you think they were hacked? Where did you get that information?
"The email chain is evidence of a possible crime. I think so until the investigators say it's not."
This is great! It is a crime until the investigators say it is not. Stalin? Hardly. More Pol Pot.
I got an email today from an Arabian Crowned prince in Qatar wanting to give me a million dollars for my birthday. I'm taking the meeting. Probably how Bill Clinton got his million dollar birthday check. I've got to learn to take advantage of opportunities.
Sounds like someone is about 3 highballs into the cocktail hour.
Love how you always reach for this tactic against your opponents, "LOL Drago". It shows a lot of integrity on your part.
Now that actually is a Stalinist tool.
It seems like it would be a violation of federal election law to "solicit, receive or accept" a "contribution or donation" or "money or a thing of value" from a foreigner.
So if the statement "If it's what you way, I love it" counts as a "solicitation" under the applicable federal statutes, AND if the information promised counts as a "thing of value" under the statute, then Donald Trump Jr. may well have violated federal election law.
But it doesn't seem like being present at a meeting that was set up by such a "solicitation" is itself a statutory violation. Which would leave Manafort and Kushner in the clear.
Birkel said...
Don't forget, Obama using the IRS to punish political opposition was no big deal. The Brits spying on Americans and giving that information to their U.S. counterparts was no big deal.
For the conservatives at the Wall Street Journal Editorial Board, and at the Weekly Standard, and at National Review, it was a VERY big deal, that the Obama Administration politicized 501(c) reviews. And it was a VERY big deal, the way that the Obama Justice Department swept it under the rug. Lots of those things, and more, were VERY big deals for serious consrvatives.
They just didn't get sucked into Trumpism as a consequence.
This is great! It is a crime until the investigators say it is not. Stalin? Hardly. More Pol Pot.
Evidence of a possible crime does not necessarily mean there is a crime. It may not be conclusive. There may be other explanations as more evidence unfolds.
I suppose it would have been helpful if I had said I see it as evidence of a possible crime. Which it is for me, until the investigators defer.
Lucien:
Choose a standard and apply it equally.
One standard would send reporters at The Intercept, WaPo and NYT along with Trump, Jr. to jail for breaking the law.
The other standard would be that none of this activity is illegal.
Choose.
Gusty Winds said...
Can anyone name another time info like the Don Jr email was released by the accused party to get out ahead of the story or throw his enemies a curveball?
Only thing I can come up with is the Nixon "Checkers" speech when he was VP.
It wasn't too long ago, that Lois Lerner did it, by having an associate plant a question at an American Bar Association Meeting, in which she was asked about the targeting affair and she had a prepared answer, to get out ahead of the news and blunt any later stories.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2013/05/17/hearing-on-irs-scandal-live-updates/?utm_term=.4745374540fe
I wasn't aware that national reporters were assisting foreign agents to provide something of value in an effort to influence the election. But if they were they should come under the same scrutiny as everyone who was in the meeting.
Brookzene: "Evidence of a possible crime does not necessarily mean there is a crime."
LOL
And lack of any evidence almost always indicates a crime was not committed.
Thanks for playing!
"For the conservatives at the Wall Street Journal Editorial Board, and at the Weekly Standard, and at National Review, it was a VERY big deal"
And of course the even bigger deals of the serious economic consequences of US government structure and policy, then and now.
But all these deals were, somehow, not big enough for these worthy organs to succeed in making something out of them. My main objection to such "conservative" organs, they are loud (sometimes), but useless. I am a reformed aficionado of these, as I have learned that they are for hobbyists only, not for serious people.
"They just didn't get sucked into Trumpism as a consequence."
WSJ and Weekly Standard writers get paid quite well for penning gentlemanly expressions of outrage during Democrat administrations.
They don't like Republican pols who actually fight back.
Before this is over, we're gonna need a Crown Prosecutor. Or at the very least. a Clown Prosecutor. The MSM is beclowning itself every week, and show no signs of slowing down.
Brookzene: "I wasn't aware that national reporters were assisting foreign agents to provide something of value in an effort to influence the election. But if they were they should come under the same scrutiny as everyone who was in the meeting."
LOL
'nuff said.
Brookzene:
Reality Leigh Winner fed The Intercept stolen intelligence documents and they are paying part of her legal defense fund.
By your logic they must go to prison, right?
Before this is over, we're gonna need a Crown Prosecutor. Or at the very least. a Clown Prosecutor. The MSM is beclowning itself every week, and show no signs of slowing down.
They're breaking the stories against your team. You don't like it. You know maybe if Trump and his lackeys did their job as well as the NYTimes are WaPo are doing there's your side might have some legislative accomplishments.
exiled: "WSJ and Weekly Standard writers get paid quite well for penning gentlemanly expressions of outrage during Democrat administrations. They don't like Republican pols who actually fight back."
What makes the Never Trumpers and "lifelong republicans" even more irate is that their "genteel" opposition (wink wink) to those would be Stalinists on the left has been utterly exposed by Trump and his campaign.
For that Trump must be destroyed and the Hillary-supporting lefties/"lifelong republicans" establishment types put back in charge to finish their March to European-Style Socialism.
Reality Leigh Winner fed The Intercept stolen intelligence documents and they are paying part of her legal defense fund.
By your logic they must go to prison, right?
I don't know anything about it. If the DA finds evidence of a crime and a jury agrees go for it.
When do we get to see the emails forwarding these emails to Kuchner, etc and related discussions.
To me it looks like entrapment by Putin. First get trump elected. Second destroy his presidency. Everything seems to be going according to plan.
Brookzene: "They're breaking the stories against your team."
They're breaking the fake news stories against our team.
As they've done for 50 years to the surprise of no one.
Trump Jr. Was Told in Email of Russian Effort to Aid Campaign
Headline from a day ago, before Trump Jr released the emails, can anybody say this is an honest summary of what actually was in there?
steve uhr: "To me it looks like entrapment by Putin"
LOL
Wow.
Good job Clouseau.
The rules Leftists have given us will be used in the future if ever we can escape the impotence of the institutional Republicans. Those soft-headed idiots would have us surrender to save face.
They're breaking the fake news stories against our team.
If you want to go with "This story about Don Jrs. emails is just fake news," run with it and good lucki. I don't see what else you got any case.
The rules Leftists have given us will be used in the future if ever we can escape the impotence of the institutional Republicans. Those soft-headed idiots would have us surrender to save face.
Well, it gets very uncomfortable at swanky DC dinner parties for these "lifelong republican" housepets if they fight back too hard.
Although, thankfully, the "lifelong republican" lefty masters do allow the odd article or two expressing some degree of "displeasure" at these circumstances in a couple of those quaint "conservative" publications.
Brookzene,
Google is your friend.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-intercept-failed-to-shield-its-confidential-source-now-its-making-amends/2017/07/11/9d41284a-65d8-11e7-8eb5-cbccc2e7bfbf_story.html?utm_term=.0a2bd9a1cf04
The thief was charged. Miraculously, the First Amendment protects the people who disseminated the information. If you wish Trump, Jr. prosecuted, take a position against the reporters who publish classified information. Also, let's get Comey's law professor friend in cuffs.
We need one standard. Announce the standard and apply it equally.
Brookzene: "If you want to go with "This story about Don Jrs. emails is just fake news," run with it and good lucki. I don't see what else you got any case."
And what, exactly, is "this story"?
That there are emails?
OMG! Emails! Impeach!
So, to summarize, DJTjr has emails.
Therefore, guilty.
Got it.
The normally supportive court [FISA] censured [Obama] administration officials, saying that the failure to disclose the extent of the violations earlier amounted to an “institutional lack of candor,” and that the improper searches constituted a “very serious Fourth Amendment issue,” according to a recently unsealed court document dated April 26.
The admitted violations undercut one of the primary defenses that the intelligence community and Obama officials have used in recent weeks to justify their snooping into incidental NSA intercepts about Americans. ... The American Civil Liberties Union said the newly disclosed violations are some of the most serious to ever be documented and strongly call into question the U.S. intelligence community’s ability to police itself and safeguard Americans' privacy as guaranteed by the Constitution’s Fourth Amendment protections against unlawful search and seizure.
Bullshit story whipped up out of illegal wiretaps.
Britain’s spy agencies played a crucial role in alerting their counterparts in Washington to contacts between members of Donald Trump’s campaign team and Russian intelligence operatives, the Guardian has been told.
GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added.
Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.
- The Guardian
It's almost like the foreigners "colluded" with Obama and Hillary to undermine Trump.
Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found. - Politico
Sample Commenter: "It's almost like the foreigners "colluded" with Obama and Hillary to undermine Trump."
When you combine these known facts with the FISA court smackdown of obama and his lefty/"lifelong republican" minions, it's clear that the truth is the these guys conducted wholesale spying on domestic political opponents and millions of US citizens.
The scope of this spying and intelligence shenanigans and the possibility of it all coming to light represents a legal threat that the dems/left and their "lifelong republican" allies cannot allow to come to light.
This is, (increase volume of dramatic background music), a real life and death political struggle between Trump and his team and the establishment state.
I wasn't aware that national reporters were assisting foreign agents to provide something of value in an effort to influence the election.
PBS: World leaders wary of a Donald Trump presidency
CNBC: 'Makes you want to retch': How worried are Europe's leaders about Trump?
Foreign Policy: Why Chinese Elites Endorse Hillary Clinton
Trump's policies would be softer on China, but the global instability he'd create as President would be bad for business in Beijing.
Hillary's Running Mate: Foreign Leaders Want Clinton to Be U.S. President, Kaine Says
Democrats' vice presidential candidate tells Virginia rally 'leaders of other nations tell me: We are counting on you.'
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.734785
Entirely innocent?
I think me and this "Powerline" freak have a different definition of the word "entirely."
Trump is doing a good job of Hillarizing himself.
I can't believe that I am waiting for Glenn Greenwald's take on this.
It's good to see Trump's Defense Squad out here, in full force, ready to deny that every more incriminating piece of evidence doesn't show a pattern at all - but is just one more bit of smoke that somehow has no fire at the center of it from which it emanates.
They really do remind me of the Bill Clinton Defense Squad. You got nuthin! Our man is more innocent than the driven snow!
Yep. Corporate Criminal Crony and Kremlin Comrade Resident Trump is on his way to a smackdown quicker than you can say Whitewater.
But I'm glad that all his and his underlings' shenanigans give you such good practice for defending a man who's constantly on the defensive.
I can't believe that I am waiting for Glenn Greenwald's take on this.
That's because your partisanship is stronger than your sense of honesty.
Mueller will get to the bottom of things. I will accept his conclusions regardless.
exiledonmainstreet said...
"They just didn't get sucked into Trumpism as a consequence."
The GOP was being drowned in a bucket of shit by the Democrats. Trump grabbed the Ds by the hair and kicked 'em in the balls and they lie gasping on the floor.
The GOPe screams, "You scoundrel!" And starts trying to pull Trump's hair and kick him in the balls.
The rules Leftists have given us will...
Behold, the moral dependency of our friends on the right!
I wish I could rely on someone else to determine for me what is right or wrong. Oh wait, no I don't.
PBS: World leaders wary of a Donald Trump presidency
CNBC: 'Makes you want to retch': How worried are Europe's leaders about Trump?
Foreign Policy: Why Chinese Elites Endorse Hillary Clinton
Trump's policies would be softer on China, but the global instability he'd create as President would be bad for business in Beijing.
Hey, there's lots of legitimate criticism to be had of the media. But this, this is just reporting the news from what I can see. President Hollande of France said the prospect of a Trump presidency makes you want to retch. Don't blame the messengers on that. World leaders wary of a Donald Trump presidency? Yeah, and now that it's here they realize how right they were to be wary. You think they've changed their minds about Trump, or they think he's great? Ask Europe's leaders what they think of Putin.
The GOP was being drowned in a bucket of shit by the Democrats. Trump grabbed the Ds by the hair and kicked 'em in the balls and they lie gasping on the floor.
The GOPe screams, "You scoundrel!" And starts trying to pull Trump's hair and kick him in the balls.
Read the graphic novel.
That's because your partisanship is stronger than your sense of honesty
LOL, show me a lie I have written.
I find it interesting how much the right-wing footsoldier grunts basically identify with Trump's defensiveness.
As for crimes being committed, hacking private property is a crime. The intelligence agencies know that Russia did it.
The only question is the degree to which their patron, Resident Trump and his Criminal Syndicate Corporate Crime Family, participated with them in it. We already know that there was a well-communicated convergence of interests on his part and his Russian benefactors', and every piece of evidence keeps pointing at a more and more tightly interwoven relationship between them on it.
So we have a crime. If you disagree then send me your Blogger password and sign-in right now. How much is/was Trump and Family a part of it? Well we know he had the motive. And it seems he had the means (to assist). And he stays up late enough masturbating on Twitter to know that he had the opportunity.
So there's a good circumstantial case. And the evidence keeps piling up. The closer you get, the more bodies that are found. More chains of communication and support are being established.
Closer and closer. Tick-tock. Tick-tock.
The noose tightens.
And interfering in an election is a crime, is it not? The state election databases were hacked.
I agree with TTR that The Intercept, NYT and WaPo reporters must be sent to prison for reading illegally stolen government documents.
The noose tightens.
Yes, you have your four hearts, that fifth heart is sure to be the next card!
Yes, the state election databases suffered attempted hacking. But what does Obama's DHS have to do with this Althouse post?
this is just reporting the news from what I can see
What's the difference between that and what you said you weren't aware of, "that national reporters were assisting foreign agents to provide something of value in an effort to influence the election"?
You can deny either:
* PBS/CNBC/Foreign Policy are national news outlets, or
* the President of France and "Chinese Elites" are foreign agents, or
* learning the views of foreign leaders was of value to reporters, or
* the press was attempting to influence the election by publishing the views of foreign leaders on one of the major candidates
The funniest part was how Trump and his lackey Tillerson made sure to note that the issue of election interference was raised to their patron. And then quickly abandoned. That Vlad sure doesn't tolerate shit from anyone - not least of which his boy Donnie!
Ok Vlad, whatever you say. You know I will do anything you want!
Slinks backward, his perma-scowl only slightly more sullen than usual.
I bet you believe you "almost won" when you get real. close on a scratch off lottery ticket too.
I agree with TTR that The Intercept, NYT and WaPo reporters must be sent to prison for reading illegally stolen government documents.
If you're comfortable with tyranny you gotta be comfortable with throwing journalists in prison, that's for sure. You can't do it any other way.
I agree with TTR that The Intercept, NYT and WaPo reporters must be sent to prison for reading illegally stolen government documents.
Is this how you win all those cases in court? By throwing out straw men?
Gee, you're almost as clever a liar as Trump! (Which isn't saying much.)
I bet you believe you "almost won" when you get real. close on a scratch off lottery ticket too.
Legal investigations don't work that way.
Geez, what is it with your party and no respect for the law or the constitutional integrity of America and American democracy?
Is this how you win all those cases in court?
No, he demands his opponent either send him his Blogger username and password or admit defeat.
What's the difference between that and what you said you weren't aware of, "that national reporters were assisting foreign agents to provide something of value in an effort to influence the election"?
Oh okay. National reporters assisted foreign agents to influence the US elections. You go with that.
Well, Brookzene, then I am happy to respond that we are in accord. There appears to be no evidence of a crime by Trump, Jr., The Intercept, NYT, WaPo or any other recipient of second hand information that might have been illegally obtained by the person potentially delivering it to the parties I listed.
See how I am pushing you to choose a single standard? Why are you so resistant to that effort?
If you're comfortable with tyranny you gotta be comfortable with throwing journalists in prison, that's for sure. You can't do it any other way.
True, that.
Amazing how these numbskulls have no understanding of the fact that the media aren't agents of the government and are in no way obliged to keep the government's secrets for them.
Leaking is just the ubiquitous by-product of an administration that either, 1) doesn't know how to get its own message out and wants to drop "hints," or 2) has too much infighting, backbiting, lawlessness or internal paranoia to generate any loyalty to a coherent mission of its own.
Right-wing people do not understand this. They don't understand many simple, basic facts of human interaction though.
See how I am pushing you to choose a single standard? Why are you so resistant to that effort?
Yes, this is amazingly persuasive. Thank you, Jesus. I'll be sure to pay real close attention to your comments from now on. I find them intriguing and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.
You sound unconvinced, yet unable to disagree, Brookzene.
If Trump Jr was working for Foreign Policy could he have taken the meeting?
Standard #1: People who receive information that may have been stolen have themselves committed a crime.
Standard #2: The people who stole documents may be punished. People who did not steal the documents cannot be punished. Prior restraint of speech is illegal.
Choose.
Geez, what is it with your party and no respect for the law or the constitutional integrity of America and American democracy?
Hey, first you called me a liar, now you say I have no respect for the law.
First things first, please list my lies.
I am heading out with some friends to hear some music now. So I might not respond to your extensive list of my fabrications for some time.
the media aren't agents of the government
Not for going on six months now.
So many directives, Birkel! So confusing!
Trump himself leaks crap. It's a big part of SOP for him, actually. Secrets held, secrets revealed. His whole schtick is to many a many-conflicting message administration, anyway! One person says one thing, Resident Trump says another... it's part of how they keep the media (and people) "confused," or so they tell themselves.
So who the hell knows what he wants private or not, anyway? My guess is Trump will say that one piece of info should have been private on Tuesday, and then by Thursday he will say he's happy to admit to the info revealed in it (on Twitter).
He will have the government prosecute a case against someone and then pretend he never filed suit.
THat's just Trump.
Oh, and BTW - the only proscription on "leaking" is if the info is classified. Trump doesn't get to classify on the basis of "it's politically sensitive info TO ME!"
Keep learning, you amateur, anti-constitutionalists.
Good one, bgates. LOL
"the media aren't agents of the government"
Not for going on six months now.
Then maybe you might want to have a government that's less overwhelmingly unpopular, less at war with the country's own institutions, less irrational, less temperamental, less prone to giving a gaslit menagerie of a thousand different mixed messages, less beholden to admiring tyrants, less prone to collaborating with corporate criminals, etc. etc. etc.
The ONLY proscription is against leaking classified information?
No reasonable prosecutor could believe such a thing.
"Geez, what is it with your party and no respect for the law or the constitutional integrity of America and American democracy?"
Hey, first you called me a liar, now you say I have no respect for the law.
Oh. So just as Resident Trump confuses himself with the office he occupies, you confuse yourself with your party.
Read more carefully. Or learn to not confuse yourself with an organization.
"The ONLY proscription is against leaking classified information?"
No reasonable prosecutor could believe such a thing.
Heh. Looks like someone's going to have to cite some laws (which he believes were broken) of his own, now!
They can fire someone. They can even sue. But there's no "law" against revealing a personal or corporate (since your government is basically now a corporation) secret.
"The intelligence agencies know that Russia did it."
If you are referring to the DNC "hack," know they don't. They think it happened. The FBI relied on secondhand information rather than physically examining the allegedly hacked server(s). This is because the DNC has refused access to any such server(s) by law enforcement agencies.
Strange, that.
From the notoriously pro-Trump Slate
This woman once worked in the Russian government. Hell in 2016, she may have been a Russian spy. Donald Trump Jr wanted dirt on HRC and failed to get it. The fact that he has no morals is no surprise, given his parentage.
#ImpeachTrump
"the media aren't agents of the government"
Nor is Donald Trump, Jr.
2018 is looking like a wipeout, Dems gonna trounce it bigtime as Trump has become toxic to the GOP brand.
President Hollande of France said the prospect of a Trump presidency makes you want to retch.
I can't think of a better endorsement for Trump.
So FBI agents are free to leak government documents with impunity so long as nothing is classified? Take a firm stance.
(And did you seriously not get the reference to Comey in the "reasonable prosecutor" comment? Do, please, try to hang in there.)
The Senate will be more Republican on January 1, 2019.
The House? We can all guess on that one.
Events, boy. Events.
"the media aren't agents of the government"
Nor is Donald Trump, Jr.
Looks like someone totally missed the point.
The Senate will be more Republican on January 1, 2019.
The House? We can all guess on that one.
Lol! Yes! Because the party's leader just EXUDES competence!
All the people who were threatened to be priced out of the insurance market will richly reward the corporatist lackeys looking to upwardly distribute their wealth for the sake of a billionaire's tax cut!
Somebody missed your incorrect and illogical point? For shame!
Get a life, Berkel.
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
Lol! Yes! Because the party's leader just EXUDES competence!
More competence than the democrat party. There will be 60 republican senators +/- a couple for a generation.
All the people who were threatened to be priced out of the insurance market will richly reward the corporatist lackeys looking to upwardly distribute their wealth for the sake of a billionaire's tax cut!
That's some good mewling drool there. It just makes you look stupid when you regurgitate stupidity like that ad apply zero critical thinking skills. The republican plan sucks too but it is hardly a tax cut for billionaires. That is just retarded.
Standard #1: People who receive information that may have been stolen have themselves committed a crime.
Standard #2: The people who stole documents may be punished. People who did not steal the documents cannot be punished. Prior restraint of speech is illegal.
Choose.
I don't know where you are getting your news from but this is not primarily about stolen documents. It's about whether Trump Jr. was looking for an assist from the Russian Government in the election.
I am heading out with some friends to hear some music now.
I'm personally all for heading out to hear live music with friends. Definitely more fun than arguing on the internet, most of the time.
Obama tells the democrats that the election can't be hacked and everyone should accept the results.
This was a month after Obama was briefed about Russian hacking by the way.
The DNC was outed by a Bernie supporter. They would not let the FBI inspect their servers. Why not?
Podesta clicked on a Phish mail.
That is what all of this is riding on.
Anyone carrying on about this right now is a traitor.
The republican plan sucks too but it is hardly a tax cut for billionaires.
Who the hell do you think you're fooling, dummy. You don't even have a clue what was in the legislation.
Keep dreaming about anti-Wall Street campaigners winning elections after a more corrupt tenure of corporate criminality in history.
But why should I tell you that. You don't believe there's such a thing as an environment, you think the climate regulates itself, you think that pot and steroids are great mind-enhancers, you think that the cabinet of Goldman Sachs billionaires are all about the people.
Go get your GED and then tell me about "critical thinking skills." You can't even remember what you argued last week.
Brookzene said...
I don't know where you are getting your news from but this is not primarily about stolen documents. It's about whether Trump Jr. was looking for an assist from the Russian Government in the election.
Who cares? Unless they planned illegal activities together there is no crime. You have all the emails.
There is no crime.
You are trying to create a crime and attach it to a person. You are a stalinist.
Obama tells the democrats that the election can't be hacked and everyone should accept the results.
Nope. That's what he said to "Sore Winner" Trump - the guy who's trying to convene a commission to get states to "hand over" their info (private and public) on voter databases. Because 3 million illegal votes and all. Including apparently his daughter and Steve Bannon - since they're registered in 2 states, also.
Anyone carrying on about this right now is a traitor.
Go fuck yourself. Swear your "loyalty oath" to Resident Trump, and focus on controlling and educating yourself before you tell other Americans what they're "allowed" to talk about, you drug dealing pothead. Jeff Sessions is onto you, BTW. Be careful not to get busted for breaking his Drug War laws, Traitor!
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
The republican plan sucks too but it is hardly a tax cut for billionaires.
Who the hell do you think you're fooling, dummy. You don't even have a clue what was in the legislation.
Billionaires don't pay taxes now. How do you cut taxes these people don't pay? Saying "Tax cut for billionaires" is stupid. I am all for implementing a tax code that makes billionaires pay taxes. You infer I am on their side somehow. Stop being dumb and loo at what is really going on. You are their tool.
Keep dreaming about anti-Wall Street campaigners winning elections after a more corrupt tenure of corporate criminality in history.
This is an incoherent string of words.
But why should I tell you that. You don't believe there's such a thing as an environment, you think the climate regulates itself, you think that pot and steroids are great mind-enhancers, you think that the cabinet of Goldman Sachs billionaires are all about the people.
This is just sad whining. You got your ass handed to you when you tried to engage on global warmism. I was hoping you learned something as you took some positive steps that night.
You are a stalinist.
So's your mother. Enough with the idiotic insults. Ken Starr was a "stalinist" "creating a crime and attaching it to a person." Investigations aren't illegal - except in the kind of police state you'd prefer to live in where evidence is not allowed.
This is an incoherent string of words.
Nope. It had a subject, a predicate and everything else it needed. Your lack of a high school diploma is showing. What did you get on the SAT? An 800?
This is just sad whining. You got your ass handed to you when you tried to engage on global warmism. I was hoping you learned something as you took some positive steps that night.
You are a moron who sniffs too much HGH and never passed a chemistry course. And I fuck your ass with an RPG.
Yeah, Ken Starr totally made Bill Clinton surrender his law license by inventing lies.
I wish I could turn my brain to the off position and be a Leftist, too. Maybe I could complain about insults and make a GED crack. Sounds like great fun.
Meanwhile, I accept Brookzene's surrender.
The Senate bill repeals Affordable Care Act taxes that levy a 3.8 percent fee on investment income, as well as a tax on individuals making $200,000 or more ($250,000 for couples).
...from 2018 to 2026, compared to the Senate bill’s $701 billion in tax cuts over the same period.
Moron.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/jun/26/barack-obama/obama-blasts-gop-senate-bill-tax-cut-rich-health-c/
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/339535-budget-estimate-shows-the-senate-bill-is-not-about-repealing
Billionaire's bitch.
Yeah, Ken Starr totally made Bill Clinton surrender his law license by inventing lies.
And how many years did he get to investigate that, first? And when was the "crime" found?
Give Mueller at least as long. He'll find more crimes than you losers are capable of dreaming of.
Shame on Ken Starr for finding what Democrats tried to keep covered and current Democrats deny was criminal behavior. The alleged crime was sexual assault and there was a deposition in a civil trial. The evidence was contemporaneous with the alleged assault and the word of the victim and witnesses who saw the after effects.
Now, you tell me what the alleged crime is and what evidence you have in the current affair.
This is a fun game.
I will spot you the illegal behavior of those who tried to hack the various states' election apparatuses.
But enough about Obama's DHS and every foreign intelligence service in existence, let's focus our discussion.
The crime was assuming that Birkel had a mind or was a patriotic American.
"The Senate bill repeals Affordable Care Act taxes that levy a 3.8 percent fee on investment income, as well as a tax on individuals making $200,000 or more ($250,000 for couples).
...from 2018 to 2026, compared to the Senate bill’s $701 billion in tax cuts over the same period."
How much did bezos or buffet actually pay?
These taxes are aimed at the people making $500,000 or less. The wealthy never actually are much affected by this.
This conflict is between the 1% and the .0001%. You are just carrying water for the .0001% who don't pay any reasonable amount on these taxes.
I don't need to follow up with a perjorative.
The sun must be down. Ritmo seems to have appeared.
Blogger The Toothless Revolutionary said...
You are a stalinist.
"So's your mother. Enough with the idiotic insults. Ken Starr was a "stalinist" "creating a crime and attaching it to a person." Investigations aren't illegal - except in the kind of police state you'd prefer to live in where evidence is not allowed."
Clinton should have gone to jail for rape. Not perjury.
I was never a big fan of the republicans and the way they handled the Clinton crime family. Starr was a travesty.
Blogger The Toothless Revolutionary said...
Obama tells the democrats that the election can't be hacked and everyone should accept the results.
"Nope. That's what he said to "Sore Winner" Trump - the guy who's trying to convene a commission to get states to "hand over" their info (private and public) on voter databases."
You know the states sell this data openly to the parties right? When the Feds get the voter registration lists it will be interesting to listen how the voter fraud narrative changes.
"Because 3 million illegal votes and all. Including apparently his daughter and Steve Bannon - since they're registered in 2 states, also."
So it is time for the states to clean up the voter rolls. Glad you are on board.
The Toothless Revolutionary said...
"The crime was assuming that Birkel had a mind or was a patriotic American."
His point was valid. You are looking awful at this point.
How much did bezos or buffet actually pay?
Any realized gains in their invested income. Multiply 3.8% times that to get the figure. Either way, it adds up to 70 billion a year. 70 billion a year in cut taxes for these folks so that 7 times as many (IIRC) lose or are priced out of coverage. Here are links from Forbes and other easily explained sites:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonynitti/2017/03/13/gop-health-care-bill-will-result-in-a-huge-tax-cut-for-the-rich-24-million-without-insurance/#4f04bdac6a2f
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/03/07/the-massive-tax-cuts-for-the-rich-inside-the-gop-health-care-plan/?utm_term=.5b1825706e62
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/10/15929020/senate-republican-health-bill-tax-cut-cartoon
You're dead wrong about that upper 0.00000000 whatever.
I don't need to follow up with a perjorative.
Yeah, well you did make a false accusation of me immediately before this sentence, so I guess it's all good.
Clinton should have gone to jail for rape.
Didn't know you got to be judge and jury here. Any other extraordinary powers you exercise when it comes to the laws of the land that no one else seems to have? Not much different than saying "Trump should have gone to jail for" whatever crime you insist must NEVER HAVE EVER HAPPENED! You know, because you have faith in him. Something you somehow feel you should demand of every American who knows and knows how to avoid a con man when they see one.
You should worry about yourself instead, Michael K. Did your obsession with me come about when realizing your wet nurse couldn't just make me disappear for you?
Grow up, Old Fart. You are less than a decade and a few long-winded stories away from being told to "shut up!" by kids throwing rocks at you, while you yell at birds from your nursing home/retirement community porch while comforting yourself with the gentle swaying motion of a rocking chair.
...it will be interesting to listen how the voter fraud narrative changes.
Oh yes, right. Like Resident Trump's "narrative" about how dual-state registration was a problem, until he found out that his daughter and chief propagandist held that status.
Trump is delusional. The more you follow (blindly!) him, the more delusional you sound.
He is appealing to all the windmills you'd love to tilt at.
Live in the real world, instead. It's much better. When someone incompetent isn't put in place to fuck it up, at least.
Russian Lady: I got some dirt on your opponent.
Me: Ok, let's see what you have.
Crime?
The crime is obvious, LilyBart.
Trump, Jr. was trying to help Trump, Sr. win an election against a Democrat.
Because reasons.
And if that's not enough: Because logic.
Also, because partisanship.
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