Or as I've always liked to see the old question phrased: Did we lose a war?
Interestingly, the answer is Michigan lost a war — to Ohio — the Toledo War.
The Northwest Ordinance of 1787 established a borderline between what would become Ohio and Indiana and the Michigan Territory from the southern tip of Lake Michigan across the Lower Peninsula. The original survey of the land didn’t accurately place the line, which led to the war.Michigan agreed and became a state in January 1837. In between those 2 dates — June 1836 and January 1837 — the Wisconsin Territory was created — in July 1836. So Michigan got the Upper Peninsula — which wasn't even what it wanted — before Wisconsin was even anything.
When Michigan applied for statehood in 1833, Ohioans in Congress blocked its admission until the territory accepted the Ohio-preferred state border..... In June 1836, an act of Congress would allow Michigan into the Union, providing it accepted the Upper Peninsula... instead of the Toledo Strip.
And if you look at the map of the Wisconsin territory, you'll see that we Wisconsinites should look with more of a sense of hey, that's ours at the northeast corner of Minnesota:
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३८ टिप्पण्या:
Occupied Territory demands intifadah. Are you guys cowards that let invading Michiganders run all over you.
For many years my wife and I vacationed in the UP. It is an "economically depressed area". Wisconsin is better off without it.
You can get it back with a Hitler-like approach. The Wisconsin Anschluss.
Why anyone wants half-frozen Yankeeland is beyond me.
The counties in NC have been divided, shifted, and renamed so many times over 200 years, it's amazing they were able to stop themselves when they got to an even 100 counties. It can make genealogy very confusing.
Virginia used to extend westward to the Pacific, NC (started later) included Tennessee.
SC acted like they ruled the world.
Maybe when they sell off "Illinois" you can get a hunk of that!
Well, at least you got The Dells...
Isn't the Toledo Strip on the seedier side of town?
Holy shit
Deleted my friendly inquiry as to where Meadehouse decided to settle for retirement after seeing the bullshit that happened in the cafe thread last night. Bad timing and insensitive, but did not see the other thing first. My apologies.
the Pantses have three years to decide where to live next and we'd like to never move again after that
Military? Lost your pants in a move?
One advantage of moving frequently when a kid is that it helps with the chronology your memories. If I can think of another, I'll let you know.
Never mind the UP. How does Isle Royale get to be part of Michigan rather than Minnesota, or even Ontario ?
How The States Got Their Shapes, presented by Meadehouse
I sense and AWFUL lot of Michigan jealousy here. You can't have it! LOL
Always thought the U.P. was part of MI because Wisconsin WON a war.
Don't dis street wisdom with mere facts.
Michigan says you can have the UP if you take Chuck.
As a lifelong Michigander, I say the swap of Toledo for the Upper Peninsula is one of the best swaps of all time. We downstaters in Michigan (the ones who live in the mitten) love the U.P., even if we don't visit it very often.
Michigan Territory included all that and Michigan too. If you want the upper peninsula "back" you need to rejoin Michigan.
Blogger Darrell said..."Michigan says you can have the UP if you take Chuck."
Fuck that shit (as we say in Wisconsin).
"As a lifelong Michigander, I say the swap of Toledo for the Upper Peninsula is one of the best swaps of all time. We downstaters in Michigan (the ones who live in the mitten) love the U.P., even if we don't visit it very often."
But the UP doesn't love you back. It's Packer country.
Every child growing up in Wisconsin knows how we were robbed of the UP. At least they did 50 years ago. Lord knows, nowadays.
But the UP doesn't love you back. It's Packer country.
Probably because the Lions have stunk for the past 60 years.
So it was a "civil war"?
Or a "war between states"
Sounds to me like the latter.
As was the big hoorah in the 1860s.
John Henry
James Pawlak,
I have read that panhandles, like Florida, OK, Texas tend to be economically depressed. I forget all the reasons but they mainly revolve around being isolated from the rest of the state.
This may be the reason the UP is economically depressed. The area might have done better had it been an integral part of Wisconsin instead of a stepchild.
John Henry
"Blogger John said...
So it was a "civil war"?
Or a "war between states"
Perhaps Ohioans should refer to it as the "War of Northern Aggression".
My Grandparents lived in Hancock, MI, in the early years of the 20th century, when there was lots of timbering and copper mining in those parts. That didn't last long, so they moved to the metropolis, Milwaukee.
tcrosse said...
Never mind the UP. How does Isle Royale get to be part of Michigan rather than Minnesota, or even Ontario ?
lol. Great question. Probably because Michigan was first in statehood among Wisconsin and Minnesota.
The whole island is a federalized national park. I don't know what we get out of it; maybe a few tourist dollars from the embarkation points in Houghton or Copper Harbor. But Minnesota has one too.
"Darrell said...
Michigan says you can have the UP if you take Chuck."
Ha!
What is weird to me about statehoods in the Midwest is how Ohio and Indiana got statehood before Michigan. Because long, long before anyone thought of developing farms in Indiana and Ohio, the French were developing outposts along the Michigan shores of the Great Lakes. Like, a hundred years earlier.
Just shows the power of the developmental engines of the great rivers of those early days. The Ohio, the Wabash, the Scioto, etc. Most of Ohio and Indiana connect to the Mississippi. Nothing in Michigan connects to the Mississippi, except for what the Army Corps of Engineers did in Chicago.
"Just shows the power of the developmental engines of the great rivers of those early days."
Exactly. William Mayo, the father, moved along the river routes toward the West until he ended in Minnesota. He went there to escape malaria, which was endemic in Missouri and the lower Midwest.
Wisconsinites should look with more of a sense of hey, that's ours at the northeast corner of Minnesota.
Especially since that would make Bob Dylan a native son.
You can blame the Suckeyes for a lot of things.
This is just one.
Althouse said..."Wisconsinites should look with more of a sense of hey, that's ours at the northeast corner of Minnesota."
Blogger Earnest Prole said..."Especially since that would make Bob Dylan a native son."
Who cares about Dylan? They stole the Boundary Waters!
Wisconsin was almost forced in with Chicago but we traded UP and Riverwest Wisconsin (across the Mississippi) to keep it away
Ann, I presume you read my link from awhile back?
The link was-
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2017/07/first-impression-slovenia-and-hamburg.html
Danno said...
Blogger Ann Althouse said...If Slovenia gets Trieste, surely Wisconsin should get the UP.
You'd probably have to fight Michigan to get it. They already lost the strip down by Toledo in a war with Ohio.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War
7/8/17, 12:21 AM
Ann said.."And if you look at the map of the Wisconsin territory, you'll see that we Wisconsinites should look with more of a sense of hey, that's ours at the northeast corner of Minnesota:"
The map shows all portions of Minnesota east of the Mississippi (and a line running north of the Mississippi headwaters in Wisconsin territory. Just think, if this map had transpired in the statehood process or in some kind of reparations process, I could stand with Scott Walker!
I'd be proud.
You'd probably have to fight Michigan to get it. They already lost the strip down by Toledo in a war with Ohio.
Why don't they just alternate which state it's in by year? They could even have an annual Changing of the Guard ceremony at the handoff.
It has to do with connections and travel...Up to modern times, open water was an easier way to travel than a road through a heavily forested area. So this area of Michigan had better connections to the eastern part of the state than to the South.
It's the same reason that we have that little bit of Minnesota that is surrounded by Canada: because the local Red Lake Chippewa traveled by canoe and most of it is part of their traditional land.
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