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206 comments:
1 – 200 of 206 Newer› Newest»In Hillary's movie some kids in Greece duped the people of Wisconsin to vote for Trump. In that same movie all of the backing of Silicon Valley was worthless because Jared Kushner - a real estate guy - was smarter than Eric Schmidt of Google.
I wouldn't say she was acting 'normal' in one of them, but she wasn't acting particularly outside the bounds of one of them.
Does he get paid to write that drek?
So true. We've developed alternative realities for themselves. Here's more evidence of differing perceptions.
Surprising to me is how many on Griffin's side were quick to reject given the depth of anti Trump weve seen. I reckon Griffin was, too.
There are at least three movies. One of them has a large portion of the country shaking their heads at the chaos and incompetence of the Trump administration.
Does he get paid to write that drek?
Given that he was one of about three people that correctly predicted Trump would win in public (Anne Coulter, Eric Bolling and Adams) he should.
Becuse the meat of it is really just the "two movies" metaphor. And even that is spoiled by his "I was saying this all along" self-promotion. Could have condensed the entire "article" into a blog comment this long.
Fen said...
Does he get paid to write that drek?
No.
I think this true generally, but clearly a bad analogy for the Griffen thing. Her judgement broadly repelled people regardless of what movie they were watching.
I disagree with Adams re Griffin's apology. She apologized to her audience, not to the Trump family.
Nice analysis. I'll add that Trump, like Perseus, slayed the Griffin with the help of a mirror.
Presidential head brings another girl down.
Those two are in the other theaters.
When does the porn movie with Ivanka start?
I am Laslo.
I wish Drudge would leave the image of Kathy and her bloody head up for the next year. Remind voters - this is the D-crat party now.
From the article: But you can go full-snowflake on this topic if you like.
Scott Adams distances himself from the brittle right.
ARM wrote: There are at least three movies. One of them has a large portion of the country shaking their heads at the chaos and incompetence of the Trump administration.
There are at least four movies, because I'm watching the one that shows the people watching the other three.
It's not a movie, it's a bubble. She didn't realize that most people would find it offensive, not funny, as her fellow bubble-dwellers did.
One of them has a large portion of the country bobbing their heads with the faux-media - who are creating faux-chaos and faux-incompetence in their daily attempt to bring down the Trump administration.
fify.
The problem with these movies is that too many of the Extras act like they are the Stars.
I am Laslo.
But the important takeaways are that 1) you're a special snowflake if you aren't "cool" with it like him and 2) Griffen outed conservative hypocrisy re political correctness.
Those were really the important points he wanted to get off his chest, with the obligatory "Griffen crossed a line" as filler.
Smells like a cuck. This is why conservatives lost the culture wars - they didn't want to get their fancy white cloak dirty.
@Rae...You just made Adam's point for him. In her movie she apologized for being a little too horrible. In our movie she is still aiding and abetting Islamic Terrorists slicing off Danny Pearl's head for sport and showing it off as an example for what good people should be happy to do to our beloved President.
And that is a Federal Crime, if anyone cares.
The "two movies" analogy is OK, but it's just a re-hash of what lots of folks have been saying for, oh, maybe 30 years or so. Adams seems to be on an extended ego trip from which he may never escape.
Henry said...
There are at least four movies, because I'm watching the one that shows the people watching the other three.
Apparently that means you are missing the porno with Ivanka.
This was very well written. I used the example yesterday that a few years ago, the Washington Post, its writer, editors, thought there was nothing wrong with writing that conservative Christians have low IQs and are easily lead. Well, because that is what everyone in their circles thinks.
Or read what the left half of the political spectrum thinks about the Little Sisters of the Poor. A centuries old order of nuns who live in poverty in order to help those even less fortunate then themselves. But because they won't give out free birth control pills, a very large segment of the US population is calling for them to be put out of business by the gov't.
As long as it is considered "artful" for one to wear a costume that depicts both Hillary and Obama as deplorables with a noose involved I am down with that.
Which of the two movies is closest to a Romantic Comedy that rhhardin has on DVD?
I am laslo.
"Does he get paid to write that drek?"
Probably no more so than Ann does. His advertising, right now, is pretty light, so not making much there. But Adams does have an MBA, so I expect that he will ultimately monetize his blog more. My guess, from the volume of comments, is that his blog is trending pretty well on the right side of the blogosphere. I would guess that it is partly because he mostly seems to back Trump, and maybe because he makes some sort of weird sense in explaining Trump.
It does seem to me that the Hitler act is slinking offstage. Occasionally I'll see some idiot theory floated on social media, a kind of acid-trip Hayak, in which the Trump Administration's incompetence is a deliberate ploy to create civil breakdown that demands martial law.
But most anti-Trump theater is playing the chaos and incompetence theme. It's hard for the left to keep calling the man a Hitler while simultaneously braying about the red menace.
It wouldn't be hard for the right, but the right has no reason to go there.
Both of the movies feel like Sequels.
I think I've seen them before, but the Explosions are bigger.
I am Laslo.
I wonder how much money she got for doing the New Year's Eve show.
Apparently that means you are missing the porno with Ivanka.
Five movies, then. ;)
"Adams seems to be on an extended ego trip from which he may never escape."
precisely
I prefer the candy metaphor.
Half of the country is eating a Mounds bar, the other half an Almond Joy.
One has nuts, the other don't.
I am Laslo.
Everyone thinks the Other Side is eating the Almond Joy.
I am Laslo.
Considering how delusional Hillary is about why she lost, how delusional would she have been about why she won, if she had won ?
"We've developed alternate realities"
Plural? See, I think you concede too much - a tu quo perhaps, to feel moderate and reasonable: "both sides are bonkers, but not me!". Which only serves to normalize the alternate reality the Left has created post-elected.
Concessions to the Left to boost self-esreem. So now the Left, instead of feeling under seige for throwing a 7 month temper tantrum, can feel their actions legitimate because "both sides do it". You may think it a little thing, it is not.
There is the reality where Trump was elected President, and there is the alternate reality where the Russians helped Hitler steal the election.
Stop surrendering please.
'Almond Joy' sounds like a Japanese Sex Technique.
I am Laslo.
For some reason that is the first Adams article I've read. I've been meaning to check his blog but just now wanted to see his take on Griffin.
Not real impressed. He basically saying we are living in bubbles (watching a movie). That insight gas been around forever.
Then the insight into conservative hypocrisy kinda missed the point. I don't think cons are disturbed by the image. They aren't looking for a safe place to hide. They are saying screw you! You made these rules and now we are enforcing them on you.
The only reason Griffin got in trouble was the libs (Chelsea, Anderson) criticized her. If it had only been cons then nothing would have happened. see cockholster and Anderson.
If you accept what Scott is saying, then why did she apologize. Obviously she is not an "artist".
"The bigger picture is that the country is living two movies at the same time, and Griffin was acting “normal” in one of them."
And yet, the flap over Kathy Griffins' joke invalidates his argument.
She may have thought there were two movies, since she and her co-conspirators thought they would get away with it. She knew that there would be controversy; she thought that anti-Trumpers would defend her.
But they didn't and invalidated Adams' theory.
@Laslo - keep it up. Miss it when you aren't around to liven stuff up.
"Scott distances himself from the brittle right"
And hands the Left a crowbar. See what I mean?
Nice work Scott. Who are you going throw under the bus tomorrow?
We needed Laslo on the Anthony Weiner thread yesterday.
The latest ongoing Russian Investigation, development leaked to the usual media suspects is that Nigel Farage has been a Russian agent all along, just like Trump. That movie is now 100% Propaganda Sci-Fi.
And hands the Left a crowbar. See what I mean?
Here Left. Have a rubber chicken.
In the sequel, Scott Adams, freshly smug from mocking "snowflakes" on the right, makes an innocent remark about Malia Obama and has his life destroyed by the Left.
then why did she apologize. Obviously she is not an "artist".
Follow the money.
"see cockholster and Anderson."
Is that a law firm?
"Presidential head brings another girl down."
If that's original, congratulations. 'Cause it's hilarious.
In the future, we'll all get to be Russian agents for 15 minutes.
I for one am mystified by the humor and/or point of Griffin's photo. What is she saying? What's the hook, the joke? That the left is now ISIS? Perhaps the ridicule was them, the left? If so, now I'm laughing. That is funny: the left has become ISIS. Fundamentalists. Medieval. Ha ha. That's funny because it's true.
But I'm thinking the left is not the butt of the joke.
So what was it?
But Griffin did turn most Trump supporters into hypocrites by making them complain about political correctness.
No, Scott. We're merely making the other side live up to its own rules. Alinsky told us to do that. Sorry that one of your friends was the "victim" but ...
"playing the chaos and incompetence theme"
Yup. A result of their (false) theory that his cabinet can recommend impeachment if they find him mentally unstable.
Have to admire the message discipline of the Left. The Right can't even coordinate an attack on Kathy Griffin without shooting each other in the foot.
The surest way to overturn a bad rule is rigorous enforcement.
Hey Scott, check fire, jackass. Watch where you point that thing.
M Jordan, I have no idea what she was trying to do or say. The only thing I can think of that she was hoping those crazy rightwingers would get upset, and then she would get all kinds of free publicity. And then she would be a hero to the establishment. She could go on the View, and be talked about on late night TV and maybe get a reference on Saturday Night Live.
Maybe he publicist is the same person who came up with New Coke.
"Trump! Dead! hahahahahah!!"
Fen wrote: Does he get paid to write that drek?
ARM wrote: No.
You may bank on that answer, Fen. ARM is a well-acquainted with the non-remunerative nature of drek composition.
I'd say in the current climate, this pretty much proves she is an agent of Isis.
Quaestor said...
You may bank on that answer,
This is the kind of bitter trolly comment that we should all try to rise above. You can do better. I have faith in you.
'Almond Joy' sounds like a Japanese Sex Technique.
What is about 6 inches long, has 2 nuts, and makes girls fat??
Almond Joy bar. What were you thinking?
Big Mike,
Scott is still right about the hypocrisy of those bashing Griffin with the political correctness they supposedly abhor. It doesn't matter that the left does it too... it's still hypocrisy when you do it too. Why not let them always be the hypocrite?
Whatever happened to the rodeo guy who wore the Obama mask? Not a lot of follow ups on that guy, I guess.
I can't believe this story is still a thing.
Faux outrage is dumb coming from either side.
Just in BREAKING NEWS: Trump has been caught in public colluding with the Prime Minister of a Communist Country that actually was once at War against the USA. The Viet Nam Dossier will soon be released about Trump in a bed with Saigon Whores.
"Do you consider Kathy Griffin’s disturbing photo to be “art”? That’s a purely subjective evaluation. But Griffin did turn most Trump supporters into hypocrites by making them complain about political correctness.
If that isn’t art, you don’t know art."
Hahahahaha, not only does he call Trumpists hypocrites, but he also says they don't know "art". He bit himself in the butt.
"Then the insight into conservative hypocrisy kinda missed the point. I don't think cons are disturbed by the image. They aren't looking for a safe place to hide. They are saying screw you! You made these rules and now we are enforcing them on you."
Ace of Spades yesterday had a lengthy post that agreed with this and, indirectly, rebutted Adams' dig. As Ace says, we're done acting as the serf class.
I see it not as a movie but as a TV series. KG would like to see the show cancelled after 13 episodes into the first season. I can see it running for the full 8, followed by 4 to 8 years of the Pence sequel, and then possibly even 4 to 8 of the Ryan sequel. In some people, that's going to cause head explosions. Is it any wonder that is causing some heads to explode?
Scott is still right about the hypocrisy of those bashing Griffin with the political correctness they supposedly abhor.
It's more a case of asking if the Left really think it's a good idea to take the gloves off.
Being offended by killing the president talk is virtue signalling, in the sense of accepted as virtue however nonsensically, like standing for the anthem etc.
It happens on the right and pre-dates lefty taking of offense.
The right has sort of re-adopted it though from the left as part of a political battle, a battle more easily won by other means, in particular means that don't put off half the people on the right.
A lot of people on the right are knee-jerk followers. They made the choice of which side writes better, but follow their crowd as mindlessly as the leftys do.
It's not well analyzed as hypocrisy.
My rule of thumb of comedy is that you never ever joke about killing a real living person unless one of the following things is true:
1. It is an obvious joke. Bonus points if you get the person to endorse the joke, especially by actually being involved in the joke.
2. The comedienne/character/skit/show is so over the top on a regular basis that it is impossible to take anything seriously. This will still offend some people but there will be refuge in audacity.
3. You really mean it.
I suppose there may be other exceptions as well but they elude me at the moment.
In this case, it is not clear this is meant to be a joke. It is difficult to produce context in a still photograph, especially when the photo is so bare bones. It's just Kathy with a relatively serious face and a bloody head. If she was grinning or if there was a caption or something that might have helped. The audacity defense also fails because Kathy has tried to be at least a semi-serious political pundit in the past and she is really not known for outrageous humor. That leaves us with "she really means it" which is a very ugly place. I suppose she could have thought that no one could ever take such a thing seriously, as if this image was so absurd as to be out of the realm of plausibility of anyone sane. If that was her assumption, she is so incredibly out of touch that it is almost funny. Almost.
Assassination as Art. The great USMC artists could give Kathy some bloody pointers.
Or is it all War when you promote the assassination of the Commander of the US Military during time of war.
Lyle: "Why not let them always be the hypocrite"
Because we've already been doing that for years and it's not working.
Go to Ace of Spades HQ and read Ace's piece "Parabelum". He explains why we need to change tactics in much better detail.
Kind of wish Althouse would put it up here for commentary. It's very educational and insightful, but I don't think she ever links to Ace. She's missing out on one of the major thought influencers. Oh well.
Hannity is the leader of the knee-jerk followers, if I had to choose.
We can at least agree on one thing - it's good to have Laslo back. I tended to agree with SA this time and always think he's interesting, even when I don't agree. Weird to see people here disparage SA's argument by calling it drek from a cuck on an ego trip.
Kurt Schlicter is correct:
"The left is shocked that the right has now stopped caring about the old rules, since for so long the left relied on the right to subordinate its human instincts and conform to those rules even when the left ignored them. We refused to stoop to their level, and for a long time, we were “better than that.” But you can only have one side being “better than that” for so long before people get sick of being the butt of the hypocrisy.
This isn’t a good thing. This is nothing to be proud of. We should not be happy that our society is heading toward the lowest common denominator, which itself is in freefall. But the alternative is worse. Should we allow ourselves to continue to be figuratively and literally beaten up while smiling at our own purity, secure in the knowledge that even though our dignity and freedom are stripped from us, we have not fought back? Not happening. Letting these bastards play by their own rules, and thereby crush us, seems a pretty high price to pay just to gain the approval of the smug and sanctimonious David Frums and John Kasichs of the world.
We conservatives have been warning for a long time that liberals are not going to like it when everyone plays by the new rules, and – surprise! – they don’t. But guess what? Most of us don’t like the new rules either. Yet it’s ridiculous to expect human beings to remain in perpetual denial about the situation they face, and to forever live under a double standard that results in their faces getting pressed into the dirt. "
https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2017/05/29/liberals-are-shocked-to-find-were-starting-to-hate-them-right-back-n2332712?utm_content=buffer0a1f3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Did you know what killing in literature is traditionally a metaphor for change in general. That's how it comes up all the time.
Same in movies.
Scott Adams wasn't moved by little Barron seeing the image of the decapitated bloody head of his father on TV and screaming "Mommy!"? What about Barron's trauma? If that image didn't move Scott Adams heart, he doesn't have one, seriously......
"I prefer the candy metaphor.
Half of the country is eating a Mounds bar, the other half an Almond Joy.
One has nuts, the other don't."
The way I see it, the Almond Joy people are laughing at the Mounds people because the mounds people are stupid enough to think that coconut IS as nut. Then somebody taps the Almond Joys on the shoulder and informs them that their stupid fucking almonds aren't actually nuts either.
Birches said...
I can't believe this story is still a thing.
Faux outrage is dumb coming from either side.
I am on the side of the brittle right on this one. No one should make light of a presidential assassination. It is reckless. The ever increasing isolation of the presidency is driven by the fear of assassination. This is not normal in most other western countries, where the leaders can still mix with the population in a more normal and relaxed fashion. We have collectively turned the presidency into something like Florence under the Medicis, who scurried around Florence in the Vasari Corridor.
I am sure that the Trumps had already exposed Barron to the image with the help of a psychotherapist in a supportive environment before he ever came across it "in the wild." Not sure why people are making a big deal of this! I agree with you pussy hat, it's all a cynical lie, and if there is anything you can have complete. faith in, I means besides that the Russia thing is going to pan out, is that EVERY SINGLE THING the Trumps do is cynical to the core.
"put off half the people on the right"
Those are the same people who shirked the Culture Wars because it was too much "drama", but can't fathom why they just paid $120,O00 to have their alma matter turn their kid into a member of the Red Guard.
The same people who "are above all that", but just got fired because they accidentally used the wrong gender pronoun.
"Which of the two movies is closest to a Romantic Comedy that rhhardin has on DVD?"
I was thinking of Vantage Point (2008), for advertised multiple points of view. It's an action flick, but maybe there was a babe involved. I seem to remember one but am hazy on whether there was a happy romantic ending.
It wouldn't be a romcom though because I don't think the guy apologizes for anything, which is what chicks go to them for.
The half of the right interested in no fraud, no force, and its implication of smaller government reach so as to reduce the effects of temptation to corruption, tend to be tied to those points and not to the crowd.
The other half of the right is the crowd. They chose a side and go with it.
I've left out women. They go with local issues and make them general.
A female right-winger is an actress.
"...she is really not known for outrageous humor."
Uhhhhh, no.
If you run your company by meetings, your company gets taken over by people who like meetings, John Gall wrote.
Same sort of thing with anything. Substitute for company and for meetings, say country and offense.
"A female right-winger is an actress."
Ohhhhh hahahahahaha! Mockturtle, Exiled, Angeldyne and the rest of you conservative women, he just called you a fraud, well he actually said "actress"..... LOL!
"Weird to see people disparage SA"
Weird? I think my criticism is sound. You disagree, that's cool, but where am I wrong?
I feel like I'm having to warn my team that they are throwing deep into a Prevent Defense.
"Prevent wha?"
It gets frustrating.
“Make them play by their rules”
I was at a non-political social event recently. A couple of liberals there were bashing Trump. One said he is doing just what Hitler did when he first gained power. Another that Trump wants to be a dictator and didn’t see how anyone can vote for him.
I replied “well, when the only other option was that fascist Hitllary”…….oh my. They got extremely angry. One came flying over got within 4 inches of my face. I thought he was going to slug me.
Get it….playing by their rules. We have to stand there and listen to them go off on goofy things like Trump = Hitler, but if you say anything similar about Hillary…..why that can’t be allowed.
Women can't sustain an interest in the principle. It's not social and complex enough.
My favorite female author, Vicki Hearne, sustains an interest in male writings because she writes corrections to them; able to appreciate how her interest differs and enlarges by leading off into paths that, technical term, deconstruct the male logic.
The technical term means male logic is left standing, there's no alternative, but there's room left for a dance that may be behind it all.
That's woman's place.
Basically there are two Americas...duh.
If you run your company by meetings, your company gets taken over by people who like meetings, John Gall wrote.
Totally non-political. I know a guy who runs his own small industrial business. Very successful. He's the boss there and gets things done.
So a non-profit that had money but was struggling to get things accomplished asked him to step in and help them out. He said no wonder they can't get anything done. No one can just make a decision. Its meeting after meeting after meeting. Everything gets talked about to death, but little actually acted upon.
Does today's America remind anyone else of pre-WW2 France?
The Kathy Griffin situation illustrates the two-movie idea perfectly.
Doesn’t this post deserve a Rashomon tag?
"The half of the right interested in no fraud, no force, smaller government, no corruption -"
And how have things been working out for them? How effective have their tactics been? Can we at least agree we need a new pkaybook? We keep getting trounced by the other team's Run and Shoot offense. Maybe give that a look? We've got the players for it.
But your other point is well taken - run your political party like a radical insurgency and your party gets co-opted by radical insurgents.
And apologies for the attribs. I can't cut n paste quotes on this phone, so they aren't accurate. Trying to quote in good faith.
ARM
Exactly. Cameron, I believe it was, hopped on a British Air flight (first class) and came to NY. Went home the same way. It is obnoxious that our presidents travel as they do with these gigantic entourages of military and civilian minders. A president is not a king and yet they outshine the Saudis when it comes to going to and fro.
And how have things been working out for them? How effective have their tactics been? Can we at least agree we need a new pkaybook? We keep getting trounced by the other team's Run and Shoot offense. Maybe give that a look? We've got the players for it.
Zingers.
If you're on principle, zingers are easy.
It's offendedness that doesn't work. Bad feelz.
Scott does have a limited point on PC hypocrisy, except he is missing one very important thing. If you take Kathy's photo here seriously, she is being explicit that she wants Trump dead and, by extension, wants his supporters dead. Once we are at that stage, we are past talking.
My hat is a shark.
Check out Eagle vs. Shark (2007)
If you take Kathy's photo here seriously, she is being explicit that she wants Trump dead and, by extension, wants his supporters dead.
That's taking it stupidly.
As if there were no literary effects in the world, let alone in a posed picture.
"The takeaway is that a room full of people involved in the photoshoot did not see this as a huge problem from the start."
I disagree. They were making comments in the run up that made it clear that they knew how hot the shoot was. They knew very clearly the nature of the alternative movie that they were insulting.
No-nonsense policies on talking about bombs at airports and talking about killing the president are assertions of authority, nothing else. It's a social thing.
As to isolating the president from the people, I can do without any appearances by the president at all. When was intruding on our lives such a big thing for them. Everything he says is trite and a bore, unless it insults the media of course. Everybody hates the media.
Bring back Cal.
A few of you are missing one of Adams' points about the Griffin affair- her video caused a few of those watching "Anti-Trump Movie" woke up for a moment and realized they were in a bubble, and that was why she got into trouble with, for example, CNN. With her canning by CNN, a few (and only a few!) critiques from the Left, they can now safely go back to watching their movie.
Exactly. Cameron, I believe it was, hopped on a British Air flight (first class) and came to NY. Went home the same way. It is obnoxious that our presidents travel as they do with these gigantic entourages of military and civilian minders. A president is not a king and yet they outshine the Saudis when it comes to going to and fro.
Cameron was merely the head of government, as opposed to Her Majesty who is head of state and does not travel commercial. In the USA the two roles are combined in the President.
Kurt Schlicter's article was actually about the Pajama Boy "body slam" in Montana.
The left makes light of whatever a 11 year old might have felt by seeing a mock decapitation photo featuring his father's head, but pearl-clutches because some twink - supposedly a grown man - got his glasses broken. Oh noes, violence!
"The left makes light of whatever a 11 year old might have felt by seeing a mock decapitation photo featuring his father's head..."
MaxedOutMama was the first to say on the Barron thread yesterday that she thought it wasn't true that Barron ran running crying "Mommy!" When he saw the image on TV. MaxedOutMama is a conservative woman IIRC. Michael a conservative male also said he thought this was a lie.
Isn't 11 where you're thinking of offing your dad in any case? Check Freud.
Plus, Scott Adams thinks you're all acting like snowflakes. And rhhardin says all female conservatives are only "actresses". We live in interesting times.
There's always been the social conservatives and the fiscal conservatives.
The latter may be social liberals and often are but vote Republican.
Scott Adams and rhardin are entitled to their opinions.
I disagree.
Inga seems to have the idea that every conservative should immediately rally around whatever Adams says, because he's some sort of guru or something.
Guess what? Sometimes I agree with him and sometimes I don't.
Independent thinking is foreign to Inga.
And I don't agree with MaxedOutMama's take, although I often agree with her on other things.
Try thinking for yourself, Inga - if that's at all possible.
There's a cat and three kittens living in the bushes in front of the house, my dog points out. That ought to keep the mouse population down, as well as the snake population. The snakes had been keeping the mouse population down, but I assume cats eat snakes and snakes aren't fast movers.
"Independent thinking is foreign to Inga."
Exactly.
Laslo Spatula at 8:30 AM
Everyone thinks the Other Side is eating the Almond Joy.
When I was a boy about 55 years ago, we had a joke:
Q: What is long and narrow and has two nuts, and white stuff comes out of it?
A: An Almond Joy candy bar.
I have a great number of friends on FB who despise Trump, and they all registered disgust with Kathy on this.
Consensus is not a synonym for bubble, but no bubbles are formed without consensus. The fact that we are watching two different movies might be a sign of vitality rather than impending doom. Napoleon always looked to the bitter feuds in England between the Whigs and the Tories as a sign of that country's weakness. The plebiscites he presented to the French electorate in his own country generally won by margins of 90%. This was more a sign of conformity and social pressure than agreement with his policies.. In the end, English society proved to be far more cohesive than that of the French.....I think Putin's approval numbers in Russia are above 80%, and, in France, Macron won with over 60% of the vote. I don't think either of those countries are more cohesive than the USA.
a tu quo perhaps, to feel moderate and reasonable
I don't need a construct to feel reasonable compared to the left.
The joke was spectacular in its ugliness and unfunniness. It was an outrage, but the question remains how much outrage one should direct at a bad joke, made by a third tier comedian. In all things moderation. I would recommend more outrage towards KG than at a rodeo clown who wore an Obama mask but less outrage than at Bill Cosby who raped sixty women........I understand that in olden times, the court jester would occasionally go too far and be put to death. They didn't put his head on a spike though. It wasn't exemplary punishment and was done more as an afterthought. Griffin's relative obscurity may, in the end, save her. Who wants to go to all the time and trouble to immolate her.
Inga: "Scott Adams thinks you're all acting like special snowflakes"
No, he does not. He said a few on the right, not all.
And no, we are not. I don't recall a single comment from the right wing here that was out of proportion. Most of us, even me, were skeptical of the "mummy" appeal to emotion.
See what I mean Scott? Thanks alot jackass. As if we didn't already have enough fake narratives to put up with. Maybe when you are done with cocktails at Martha's Vineyard, you can tour the front lines and visit with the troops you are throwing under the bus.
"In all things moderation"
Agreed, but you whitewashed it. Please acknowledge that this was a joke about assassinating the President of the United States. Thanks.
I wish people would go read Ace's collumn. He makes a critical point that underlying all this is a double standard - some people are allowed to make jokes about assassinating the President, and some people are not. That's wrong.
"I don't need a construct to feel reasonable compared to the left"
When did the Left become the standard you compare yourself to? I'm just saying that some on the right are trying a ittle too hard to look "cool".
madAsHell at 9:08
What is about 6 inches long, has 2 nuts, and makes girls fat??
Oh, yes, that was the joke's question.
rhhardin said...
If you take Kathy's photo here seriously, she is being explicit that she wants Trump dead and, by extension, wants his supporters dead.
That's taking it stupidly.
As if there were no literary effects in the world, let alone in a posed picture.
Pretty much the best way to take it is "I hate you and I hate everything you believe in." That's not much of an improvement. There's no discussion there. There is only war.
War isn't based on hate. It's based on differing interests.
The point of Griffin's stunt was to move the Overton window. Now that lefties have established their great virtue by conceding for the first time in decades that there exists any line at all that they shouldn't cross, they can now safely do anything vile and horrific they want *up to* symbollically beheading the president and holding the bloody head carcass up like a prize.
That's the new "civility bullshit".
"Independent thinking is foreign to Inga."
Foreign? It's downright extraterrestrial. It's simply not something the Left can do.
Another point of discussion is the culural bias in play.
Imagine if the President's 11 year old DAUGHTER had seen her Dad's decapitated head on the news?
I think the outrage would have been turned to up to eleven. But boys don't matter as much. Something Dr Helen has been spotlighting for several years now.
I wish people would go read Ace's collumn.
Here, let me help.
"Inga seems to have the idea that every conservative should immediately rally around whatever Adams says, because he's some sort of guru or something."
Guess what? I think Scott Adams is full of shit and I'm simply rubbing your noses in it.
First, the almost universal criticism from the left and right belies Adams two-movie thesis. Second, was Griffin's apology sincere? Well, it depends on what her objective was, doesn't it? If her objective was to salvage her relationship with CNN, it undoubtedly was sincere. If, Adams is saying she had an Epiphany, well, maybe so, but I see no evidence. Third, Adams, says he supports Griffin's right to produce provocative and sometimes offensive art. So what? I support Adams right to produce inane and irrelevant writing. That is not and never was the issue. Actions (and words) really do have consequences. Fourth, Adams asks if I consider Griffin's photo art? Yep, right up there with felt reproductions of Jesus, Elvis and John Wayne.
Fen said...
Another point of discussion is the culural bias in play.
Imagine if the President's 11 year old DAUGHTER had seen her Dad's decapitated head on the news?
For the sake of balance it is perhaps worthwhile pointing out that there is no shortage of images of Obama being hung in effigy, with nooses around his neck or even of him being immolated. I can't remember much concern expressed here about the effect of these images on his young daughters.
"War isn't based on hate, it's based on differing interests"
Then why is Islamic Jihad winning? Europe doesn't even have the will to put up a fight.
Remember all the "men" of London who observed in passive detatchment as one of their own soldiers was decapitated on the street in broad daylight? That's what the American Right "no drama" Wing reminds me of.
We have tried to readon with the Left. We have tried to change their behavior through leading by example. It hasn't worked. And cadres of the Red Guard are graduating from the Indoctrination Centers.
Yes, your way is morally better, and you'll have lots of tone to elaborate further around the camp stoves. You think that's hyperbole, but we had this same conversation in Bonn 1931.
"For the sake of balance it is perhaps worthwhile pointing out that there is no shortage of images of Obama being hung in effigy, with nooses around his neck or even of him being immolated. I can't remember much concern expressed here about the effect of these images on his young daughters."
They'll deny it ever happened.
And in Tiananmen, 1967
"We have tried to readon with the Left. We have tried to change their behavior through leading by example."
Ohh hahahahahaha! This is rich. Hahaha!
"Independent thinking is foreign to Inga."
Thinking is foreign to Inga. FIFY
Mockturtle is only an actress pretending to be a conservative, says rhhardin. She also pretends to be a woman. She says she's all on board for women to lose the vote. Such deep thinking there mocky.
"I was at a non-political social event recently. A couple of liberals there were bashing Trump. One said he is doing just what Hitler did when he first gained power. Another that Trump wants to be a dictator and didn’t see how anyone can vote for him."
This reminds me of a conversation we had on Memorial Day. Friend of mine claims to be, maybe, the one person who has been able to call Mike Godwin on violating Godwin's law. He likened someone to Joseph Goebbels (Reich Minister of Propaganda of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945). Mike has been a friend of ours really since the pre WWW days (I first met him at a BBS convention in maybe 1990 or so), and on an IP policy committee that both of us have chaired. He was first staff counsel for the EFF, and was chief counsel for the Wikipedia foundation.
Can anyone think of a context where Griffin's joke could possibly be funny? If Rush Limbaugh held up the severed head of Fidel, would that be funny? The joke is just grotesque and stupid. Still, in the course of my life, I have felt far greater offense at the idiocy of Jane Fonda and Michael Moore than at this stupid joke........It's an open question as to how this will play out. Her obscurity may work for her in that how can you damage the career of someone whose most lucrative gig was advertising potties. Every New Year's Eve I truly feel the futility of my life, but never in my darkest moment have I ever felt any wish to lighten the load by watching her and Anderson Cooper. It's impossible to boycott her sponsors and venues because she doesn't have any......On the other hand, her marginality may work against her. The left may throw her under the bus to demonstrate how they're fair minded in their response to tasteless jokes. The left doesn't have that much invested in KG so screw her. It's not like she's a heroic figure like Jane Fonda........What's the over/under that she gets awarded an honorary degree from some college before the end of the Trump presidency?
@Dave from Minnesota: "The only thing I can think of that she was hoping those crazy rightwingers would get upset, and then she would get all kinds of free publicity. And then she would be a hero to the establishment. She could go on the View, and be talked about on late night TV and maybe get a reference on Saturday Night Live. "
I think this is it. But the joke is still hidden.
"Can anyone think of a context where Griffin's joke could possibly be funny?"
No. And Jane Fonda was a traitor to her country during wartime.
It's capitalism vs decapitalism.
Kathy Griffin was giving other people permission to live out her revenge fantasies.
Severed Trump-head earrings would be cool.
Thanks Laslo for the wonderful laughs. I will never look at an Almond Joy the same again... Not to mention the 5 movies that are currently playing.
I thought there were only four, and I was watching the 4th as Henry said...
>There are at least four movies, because I'm watching the one that shows the people watching the other three.
Maybe she's worried about America's heading.
If you're on the wrong heading, arch in the capital. Change the captain. Start a new chapter.
On Scott Adams politics, I view him as brilliant in his analysis of Trump, but very Liberal in the traditional sense in Social Areas. He has written that his income from speeches has taken a tremendous hit. Psychology of Persuasion is an interest of mine. Adams has spotted the brilliant branding or labeling that Trump instinctively does verbally.
I view the current politics of the Left as sad, where anybody who is not considered pure / true enough, is viewed as a conservative.
I met one Lady, a Prof. from a Cal Stateat my local congress person's office, who thought Reason magazine was a far right website and did not believe the idea we are all committing 3 felonies a day (book topic is terrifying, but I found it a hard read and a bit dry). It was a very surreal conversation I had with the Lady. She was dropping off a bunch of paper cranes as a protest against the first attempted repeal of Obamacare that failed.
If you buy it after visiting here, AA should get some affiliate. https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229/
IF any of you conservative women were independent thinkers, you'd push back against what rhhardin said about you fine women. What is ironic is that I, a liberal woman, am the only woman thus far defending you conservative women from being portrayed as frauds, er... I mean "actresses". Or maybe you conservative women agree? After all, Mockturtle said she was on board for women to be denied the vote. Any independent women conservative thinkers here?
Rhhardin said...
"A female right-winger is an actress."
6/1/17, 9:42 AM
---------------------------
Inga said...
They'll deny it ever happened.
Not possible with Google, so they will default to ignoring the problem.
The Hiroshima peace museum has the trademark on paper cranes.
All women are actresses. Right wing women act at being right wing.
"All women are actresses. Right wing women act at being right wing."
Am I acting at being left wing? So, only really manly men are true lefties eh?
Yooo hoooo! Calling all female independent thinkers!
Left wing leaves room for your natural interests. Feelings and hurts.
The advocate role is an act, that is, isn't an interest beyond appearance.
"Left wing leaves room for your natural interests. Feelings and hurts."
So women should all succumb to their limitations and emotional nature and just become liberals. OK! Conservative women, you heard rh, get on board! Rh is really just trying to get rid of any women in the conservative movement. You're welcome to join us lefties, we have cookies.
But leftism doesn't let you enjoy men. Take an interest in male obsessions and do a slight commentary on them that prevents them from taking over all the terrain, without taking over terrain on your own. Produce new places for men to imagine they can take over.
(Derrida _Spurs_; Derrida "Choreographies"; Vicki Hearne _Bandit_ "Beastly Behaviors)
Vicki Hearne in _Animal Happiness_ has an essay setting out to prove that Harold Bloom (Yale lit critic, advisor of Camille Paglia) is afraid of horses.
Emma Goldman "If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution."
Vicki Hearne thought of herself as a leftist but always seemed to me to write on the right.
A peculiar talent, maybe a woman's talent.
"But leftism doesn't let you enjoy men."
Really?! That's news to me. I guess my four children came from the cabbage patch. My husband and I never truly shared any interests? He was just pretending?
Inga said...
Yooo hoooo! Calling all female independent thinkers!
6/1/17, 12:44 PM
Liberal women: *crickets*
As with academic postmodernism, the big mistake is not liking the system that you're analyzing.
Derrida always liked the thing he deconstructed.
The left today makes the academics' mistake.
I said I disagreed with rhardin. I'm not going to have a sudden meltdown over it. That would be something a hysterical liberal woman would do - thus playing right into his hands.
I don't really care.
"Liberal women: *crickets*"
How many liberal women comment here besides myself? Far more conservative women, so where are they? At acting classes?
Guess what? I think Scott Adams is full of shit and I'm simply rubbing your noses in it.
6/1/17, 11:47 AM
He was right about the election, though, Inga, wasn't he?
Guess what? Trump won. Hillary lost. I'm rubbing your nose in it.
"I don't really care."
That's a good little woman, let the men do the thinking for you.
Guess what Hexiled? No one gives a shit about Hillary losing.
Inga said...
Guess what Hexiled? No one gives a shit about Hillary losing.
LOLOLOL!!! Sure. You've been perfectly calm since November 8.
"That's a good little woman, let the men do the thinking for you."
That's a good little pussy hat. Get hysterical and indignant about every stupid thing under the sun.
"Sure. You've been perfectly calm since November 8."
Liberals are far more anti Trump than pro Hillary. Try thinking for yourself.
"Get hysterical and indignant about every stupid thing under the sun."
Yes, I see you clutching your pearls over poor little Barron being traumatized over seeing his daddy on TV headless, crying out for his "Mommy!" If you believe that scenario, your fainting couch awaits you, right rh?
That's a good little woman, let the men do the thinking for you.
[women as sailing ships]
Actio in distans. When a man is in the midst of his hubbub, in the midst of the breakers of his plots and plans, he there sees perhaps calm, enchanting beings glide past him, for whose happiness and retirement he longs they are women. He almost thinks that there with the women dwells his better self ; that in these calm places even the loudest breakers become still as death, and life itself a dream of life. But still! But still! My noble enthusiast, there is also in the most beautiful sailing ship so much noise and bustling, and alas, so much petty, pitiable bustling! The enchantment and the most powerful effect of women is, to use the language of philosophers, an effect at a distance, an actio in distans ; there belongs thereto, however, primarily and above all, distance!
- Nietzsche
Inga said...
Guess what Hexiled? No one gives a shit about Hillary losing.
But they do give a shit about Trump winning. The lefties I know hate Hillary about as much as they hate Trump.
"But they do give a shit about Trump winning. The lefties I know hate Hillary about as much as they hate Trump."
Yes. Much closer to the truth.
Trump is too much like a man.
See Griffin as a castration fantasy.
Not my "independent thought", but one worth contemplating.
"When Nietzsche writes about women, I rarely read him has writing about women. From his work, I’m not sure he has every actually met a woman – rather it seems as though he looked the term up in a dictionary and found a social construct that would serve as a perfect foil for his ubermench.
Did Nietzsche really think such terrible things about women? Perhaps, though as feminist philosophers have noted many of his comments are dissonant with his deeper beliefs. But, one thing I am confident of is that Nietzsche did not invent these images of women.
He writes about women as beguiling, as shallow and manipulative, as weak but somehow strong in their weakness. These are tropes that have been oppressing women for centuries. Nietzsche’s writings bring them to light – and, as modern reader – seem to mock them.
Nietzsche writes like a little boy having a tantrum. But beneath all the pomp and circumstance, beneath his exhausted peacocking, Nietzsche strikes me as deeply ironic in all that he writes.
Words have the power to create, not simply reflect, Nietzsche argues, but his words create a dark reflection of society’s misogyny indeed."
http://sarahshugars.com/2015/12/feminism-and-nietzsche/
Feminism, Nietzsche said, wants not a castrated man but a castrated woman.
So Griffen wasn't feminism.
Derrida's _Spurs_ is about how Nietzsche's supposed misogyny is pro-woman, though antifeminist.
This angered Gayatri Spivak, Derrida's first translator (Of Grammatology), presumably a feminist. She felt betrayed.
Supposing truth to be a woman - what then? Is the suspicion not well-founded that all philosophers, when they have been dogmatists, have had little understanding of women, that the gruesome earnestness, the clumsy importunity with which they have been in the habit of approaching truth have been inept and improper means for winning a wench? Certainly she has not let herself be won - and today every kind of dogmatism stands sad and discouraged. If it continues to stand at all!
- Nietzsche
None of that happens if women are just men.
Your first comment on the subject, Inga:
Inga said...
Poor kid, it's got to be something that will shape him in years to come. The parents and loved ones of those ISIS beheading victims must also be traumatized by this. Griffin needs to be treated as the pariah she made herself into.
5/31/17, 11:23 AM
The very next comment was MaxedOutMama's and once she said she didn't believe the story, you felt free to do a 180. You didn't see the need to pretend to feel any compassion for the kid anymore.
That's because you're an independent thinker.
Of course, now you've joined in mocking an 11 year old although he's not the one who put the story out.
Now go make a donation to the Pajama Boy's GoFundMe page so the wimp can go buy himself new glasses. You make fun of an 11 year old for (supposedly) acting like a baby, but you don't mind when pathetic liberal "men" do.
If you believe that scenario, your fainting couch awaits you, right rh?
Children are a women's interest. It's a transparent move to some and not to others, or anyway the others enjoy the interest enough not to care if it's a cynical ploy.
You don't want women voting. It's too easy.
rhhardin, I don't think Bertham Russell was right about much outside of mathematics. He certainly got it wrong politically. But he was correct when he said of Nietzsche's "Do Not Forget Thy Whip!" comment that "9 out of 10 women would have gotten the whip away from Nietzsche and he knew it, so he kept away from women."
Nietzsche was about as accurate about women as Russell was about politics.
Hexiled,
Most normal human beings do agree with others at times. I didn't say a word about believing that he ran to his "Mommy!" sreaming when he saw the headless daddy on TV in my first comment, that doesn't mean that I didn't think it. I spoke of the fact that yes indeed he might suffer trauma from the incident in the long run, but not from the bloody visage on TV. Also Hexiled, no one mocked Barron, we mocked YOU snowflakes who believed the story of him screaming "Mommy!" After seeing his headless daddy on TV. It's cute that you're trying to back away from your fainting couch after all your pearls are scattered all over the floor, LOL!
Even Scott Adams mocked you.
Russell hired Wittgenstein, saying that W had interesting ideas that R certainly hoped were wrong. So some strength of character.
W in the end proved right, or anyway introduced a permanent schism in analytic philosophy.
And Hexiled, you may very well be one of the "actresses" rhhardin speaks of. Jesus, he may be right about conservative women.
It's possible that women can't read Nietzsche. We'll have to see if there are any fans out there.
Again, Inga, I don't really give a shit what Adams or rhardin have to say about this.
I'm my own woman.
Mockturtle wants to take your vote away from you Exiled. That OK with you?
The woman's place is to follow, be interested in, what the man writes and put in little digressions that undermine the entire claim to authority.
It's like a zinger but appearing to be an ornament.
"The woman's place is to follow, be interested in, what the man writes and put in little digressions that undermine the entire claim to authority."
Rh, I respect your intellect, your humor and your honesty. But when it comes to females, it's a mistake to base your ideas about human women on your female Dobermans.
The model might be Vicki Hearne's "Job's Animals" on Harold Bloom's treatment of the Book of Job, in _Animal Happiness_.
The Doberman has learned that if she barks at the kittens outside the screen door, the kittens go away and she can't watch them.
Try the first few pages of "Choreographies" on feminism and marching in place.
At some point it goes into jargon too completely but there are a lot of good lines before that happens.
The weird thing is that you don't find women in math or philosophy, neither of which requires upper body strength and you'd think would be fun.
Tired of waiting for Trump's announcement and going to the more distant store.
Nietzsche's peachy, but his big mistake was going to women with a whip instead of a bondage device. Bondage devices are what women are really into. That's why they all line up to see Fifty Shades. Those bondage devices drive them crazy. Hey, it's better than dressing up as the Easter Bunny.......In his dotage, Russell fell under the influence of some peacenik who got him to sign foolish statements and become a member of foolish committees, but in his primo years he was an independent thinker who defied cant. He openly opposed WWI and the Soviet Union when all the right people were into these bondage devices.
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