Here's The NYT:
And here's The Washington Post:
Sometimes the going-big gamble backfires. After the intense promotion of the Comey testimony before it took place, I think The New York Times and The Washington Post would have doubled down if they'd drawn any good cards at yesterday's hearing.
IN THE COMMENTS: Biotrekker said:
Not the NYT print edition in NYC. It is a full banner about Comey and goes full Trump Derangement Syndrome. "Comey Bluntly Raises Possibility of Trump Obstruction and Condemns His ‘Lies’"I can see the facsimile of the front-page of New York edition at nytimes.com:
पोस्ट्स
१०० टिप्पण्या:
Bahahhahahahhahhha!! Figures...It would be top news if it went their way. Too bad May didn't win...what would they have as lead stories then??
Not the NYT print edition in NYC. It is a full banner about Comey and goes full Trump Derangement Syndrome. "Comey Bluntly Raises Possibility of Trump Obstruction and Condemns His ‘Lies’"
The British election is a big story. I spent part of last night and early this morning watching Sky News to understand what was going on. There are some very appealing things about the way Britain does democracy. The counting of the ballots and announcement of the results is very parochial and very democratic. All the candidates are physically present for the announcement of the results by a local minor dignitary. Theresa May shared the stage with Lord Buckethead. One can't get too full of oneself when you are sharing a stage with Lord Buckethead.
Yesterday seemed like the beginning of the end for a certain kind of populism, which peaked with Brexit and Trump's election. Both are now in retreat.
Brexit didn't make May into Thatcher. You'd think a conservative would have had advantages after the recent attacks. But May isn't "conservative", she's "Conservative".
She was also Home Secretary for six years while the infiltration and the criminalization of noticing the infiltration were going on.
She's of the class and type who told the outraged parents of Rotherham, "Screw you and your trashy daughters. Bigots"
ARM wrote: Yesterday seemed like the beginning of the end for a certain kind of populism, which peaked with Brexit and Trump's election. Both are now in retreat.
Just like the sea retreats before the tsunami.
"Disgruntled Former Emoloyee Reveals Himself To Be Coward" wasn't what they were expecting?
You know that tsunamis are not a good thing, don't you?
"Fizzled"? Not at all. Wishful thinking. The Mueller investigation is just beginning. I'm not sure what testimony you folks were listening to, but it certainly wasn't good for Trump, anyway you try to spin it.
May losing is a sign of the times. Trump style populism is on the downswing. Austria, Netherlands, France, now Great Britain and next Germany, should be a signal to you that people around the world have seen what Trumpism has done to the US and are rejecting it for themselves. Sanity prevailing in Europe. We're not there yet.
Britons voted to forfeit their right to insult US politics.
"All the candidates are physically present for the announcement of the results by a local minor dignitary."
Would love to have seen Hillary's reaction in real time.
Britons can now insult our politics with credibility.
Kevin said...
Would love to have seen Hillary's reaction in real time.
I think all Americans deserved to see that.
Here's a headline.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/08/us/politics/donald-trump-james-comey.html?_r=0
"For Trump, the ‘Cloud’ Just Grew That Much Darker"
"Brexit didn't make May into Thatcher. You'd think a conservative would have had advantages after the recent attacks."
The attacks happened under her watch, and her response wasn't enough. I'm not surprised people don't just accept the "conservative" as the best protection you're going to get. It's like the Democratic Parties pitch to the African-American voters: Where else are you going to go?
Do you really want to talk about that headline, Inga? What does it mean to you?
Althouse,
I'm pushing back on your assertion that the NYT's saw the Comey testimony as a "fizzle". If that wasn't your intention, then say so.
I'm startled to see color photos in the NYT. No wonder they've gone downhill.
"The Mueller investigation is just beginning."
For the last year the FBI and our intelligence services have been investigating Russia's influence on the election. In that time they have found nothing to implicate Trump. That was what Comey testified yesterday.
But the Mueller investigation is just beginning. With the same evidence and the same investigators and the same methods to sift through the information.
A logical person can only conclude all these people are incompetent and Mueller is going to personally see something that everyone else on the case missed. Or they can conclude the odds of Mueller finding anything on Trump are very remote, and he was brought in to dot the "i's" and cross the "t's" and possibly bring some minor charges against some minor associates for some minor infractions.
Flynn failing to properly disclose does not a government take down. We've seen this movie and it's not Watergate but Valerie Plame.
The headline means to me and plenty of others too, that Trump's situation didn't improve after Comey's testimony. It's in stark contrast to what Trump hangers on see.
As Alan Dershowitz has pointed out, it is perfectly legal for a President to order the FBI and/or DOJ to stop an investigation or to fire the FBI Director or AG. It is pretty clear that the investigations into Clinton's server and leaks were ordered to be shut down, and no one cares about that.
Trump's election was the last ditch attempt to stop our slide into totalitarian socialism by constitutional, electoral means. If the Deep State succeeds in removing Trump, then Trump's supporters will likely move on to other means. Having lived through the horrors of the 1960's, all of which were due to leftist violence, I do not in my old age want to experience an orgy of rightist violence.
Peter Turchin, the historian at UConn, believes we are entering a period of extreme intra-elite discord and violence that will be more intense than the period leading up to the Civil War. I think he's right, and that we are in the Weimar stage of our devolution. Hitler was a socialist, and he achieved power by legal means. What happened next reflected the horrors of Weimar.
I never got the impression that May was that much of a populist. Boris Johnson, favored by the bookies to replace her if she steps down, seems more Trump like, physically, if nothing else. But I'm not sure I understand British politics that well.
You know that tsunamis are not a good thing, don't you?
Tsunamis are like landslides, it all depends on what gets obliterated.
AReasonableMan said...
You know that tsunamis are not a good thing, don't you?
They are really not a good thing if you get in their way and don't have enough sense to evacuate. Looks like you are standing firmly in its path and refuse to move to higher ground.
The British election was good news for the liberals, the Comey hearing a disappointment. It is not that hard to figure out the NYT editorial decisions.
"But the Mueller investigation is just beginning. With the same evidence and the same investigators and the same methods to sift through the information."
To believe this is the case, one would have to believe the investigation was at a standstill and no other things were discovered or uncovered. I doubt that is the case, if it were Mueller could quickly end the investigation and publish the results. This isn't happening, as many have said in the Intel Community, one discovery leads to another...
Don't think the terror attacks account for Tory failure. If anything May like Clinton. Lacking in charisma and clear message. With Corbin like Sanders. Second place but more personal appeal.
The Tories were punished for May's fecklessness in the face of three horrific Muslim attacks, and for her sluggish Brexit policies. Many Conservative constituents just stayed home. A new Tory/DUP coalition government is even now being negotiated. The Unionists will get one cabinet post, though it's unlikely to be the Home Office with DUP holding only ten seats, and they'll demand more influence in the Brexit process, though they will be unlikely to get it.
Policy in Britain is about to move to the right.
Speaking of tsunamis, it's quite stunning that those describing one happening in response to what is going on now, simply cannot envision a tsunami by the left. You think that we are not going to push back against all that has occurred?
Comedy hardly fizzled. But hard to keep things at fever pitch every day until Trump finally tries his hand with a pistol in front of Trump Tower.
Damn autocorrect.
Ha ha ha! a couple days ago all we heard from Inga was
"BawwK! Russia Russia Bawwwk Cluck cluck cluck BaawwwK Russia!"
Foreign elections would be more understandable if they called them democrats and republicans.
AReasonableMan said...
Yesterday seemed like the beginning of the end for a certain kind of populism, which peaked with Brexit and Trump's election. Both are now in retreat.
Ficta said...
I never got the impression that May was that much of a populist.
Ficta is more correct. May was/is more of an entrenched political entity within the "accepted" establishment (Think: McCain, Bush 3, Romney, etc). NOT an outsider with Populist appeal.
I think Mark Twain said something along the lines of when a hen lays an egg, to hear her squawk sometimes, you would think she was giving birth to an asteroid.
"....a couple days ago all we heard from Inga was ....Russia..."
If you think for a minute the Russia issue is over, you're deluded. OMG, you people really see things through Trump glasses, it's a worse form of dementia than previously thought, wow.
"....when a hen lays an egg, to hear her squawk sometimes, you would think she was giving birth to an asteroid.
Confucius say,
An obnoxious crowing rooster sometimes becomes chicken soup.
"For Trump, the ‘Cloud’ Just Grew That Much Darker"
When the front page is culturally appropriating from the weather forecast, it means what they had was not what they wanted to print.
"Comey: Trump Is Under Investigation" and "Comey: Trump Obstructed Justice" were not available at press time.
"Comey: I Was A Coward", "Comey: I Was The Leaker", and "Lynch Interfered In Clinton Investigation" were not deemed suitable replacements.
Obstruction of Justice by Trump, hell. The obstruction of our election of a President is all we have seen.
Funniest thing yesterday was how old warrior John McCain tried and tried to ask a really good question about why Comey cleaned up for massive Clinton Crimes by closing one more investigation of their total corruption while he was giving resuscitation to Clinton's fake Russsian Agent charge, that had ZERO evidence outside of imagination, in the latest media impeachment narrative being played to the hilt by the grade B actors in the Swamp Congress.
Quaestor said...
The Tories were punished for May's ... sluggish Brexit policies.
Wrong. May favored a 'hard Brexit' over the objections of everyone in the middle.
Policy in Britain is about to move to the right.
Definitely wrong. May's failure means that the Tory moderates and the anti-Brexit DUP hold the balance of power.
"Policy in Britain is about to move to the right."
"Definitely wrong. May's failure means that the Tory moderates and the anti-Brexit DUP hold the balance of power."
These Trumpists surely have the talent of self delusion.
The NYT is just miffed because Comey called them out on their fake news. The NYT has lost all credibility and yet they haven't gotten the message yet. Comey denounces NYT story
If you think for a minute the Russia issue is over, you're deluded. OMG,
"Baawwk! Russia baaaWWK cluck cluck cluck BAAWWWWK RUSsia!"
By the way, nice death threat. ;^)
Push back against all that occurred.
That's what Trump is, a pushback against all that occurred.
What occurred, exactly?
Nothing more than you lost an election and are having a toddler tantrum.
What occurred, Inga? What did he do? Stop being a coward and lay out something you're salivating for. what is the Impeachable offense that he won't have to step down for, since a The former rapist-in-chief didn't?
You see something there. What are the broad strokes of the offense?
I just saw Pelosi on Morning Joe. She sad that it was suspect that Trump chose Saudi Arabia as his first foreign policy visit. She said that this needs to be looked at further. Is this a sign that the Russia "matter" is a dead end and a new scandal must be found? TR mo had some building projects in NYC, and I'm sure that some Mafia affiliated firms poured concrete for him. If this Saudi Arabia thing also fizzles, we should look into the possibility that Trump is a figurehead for the Genovese crime family.
The Tories still hold a large plurality. No reason for Mr. Corbyn to start dancing a jig. Theresa May was never the best Conservative candidate but no one else had the balls to step up to the plate.
There is one word to describe British leadership: Weak. They need a wartime consigliere.
"TR mo" is my autocorrect for Trump. My autocorrect is a low achiever.
I'd say Inga is really on the defensive today. Keep pluckin' that chicken!
Both are now in retreat.
May, yes – Trump, no. Being attacked is not the same as being “in retreat.” May is seen as one of the dupes that allowed the terrorism in GB. Trump has no such problem. America does not have a parliamentary system.
I think May will be replaced by someone who is tougher on terrorism. Populism = not bending over so the terrorists can screw you better.
Sanity prevailing in Europe.
And also … Islamic terrorism.
Did misogyny play any part in May's weak performance or does that only work for liberal candidates? Why, of all these different elections, was Russia only able to affect the American one? Does this speak to the security awareness of the DNC. Their candidate, after all, shared sensitive information with America's best known pervert.
Trump Tried to Sink Inquiry, Comey Says.
Funny how what Comey says is not in quotes. Funnier still how, when I search the transcript, I don't find Comey saying that.
So I googled the phrases "Trump Tried to Sink Inquiry, Comey Says". I must be getting close, because the second result is Quotation of the Day: Trump Tried to Sink Inquiry, Comey Says. Surely if this is the Quotation of the Day, it must be an actual quote, right?
Wrong. The only quote in the above link is "The President surely knows if there are tapes. If there are, my feelings aren't hurt. Release the tapes."
Nothing about sinking the inquiry.
Nothing.
Apparently fake news is the only news that's fit to print.
Did Russia try to influence the fracking debate? Why would their sole and exclusive foreign policy aim be to elect a pro fracking President?
Thanks Trump. The more the world sees of him, the more the world rejects him. Europe is capable of learning from the US's mistakes.
"U.S. President Donald Trump has blundered into helping Corbyn directly in the final week of the campaign by attacking London’s Labour mayor, in the aftermath of the London Bridge terror attack. In the face of Trump’s goading, Sadiq Khan has remained dignified as he leads London’s defiant response to those grotesque murders.
While Corbyn leapt to his Labour colleague’s defense, Theresa May has repeatedly refused to stand up to the U.S. president despite intense media questioning, just as she failed to rebuke him when Trump pulled out of the Paris climate accord last week. May has been left looking weak—and, in the eyes of Britain, she is on the wrong side of the fight."
"Comey isn't a Clinton Creature.
Like Phreet Bharara he's a Schumer Sockpuppet. But Schumer did lease him out to Holder and Obama."
This was laughed at last night by one of our leftist trolls, which is additional indicia of its likely veracity. What needs to be remembered, of course, here is that Schumer was Crooked Hillary's mentor while she was I the Senate for 8 years. He was the senior Senator, and she the junior, from NY. And being the most powerful Dem in NY, she had to get him behind her to get the field cleared for that seat. Comey is Schumer's tame Republican, that he used when such was needed, such as for the Manhattan USA under a Republican President. Bharara took over when Obama was elected, and apparently expected to keep the position under Trump. Interesting that the only two people whom Trump had to fire in the DoJ were these two close associates and Schumer sock puppets. (I had to qualify to DoJ, because early this week, Trump fired Michelle Lee, the Commissioner of the USPTO, and Asst (I think) Sec of Commerce). How did Comey get the FBI post, despite not having any real LEO experience, besides being a federal prosecutor? My guess is that Comey was payback by Obama to Schumer for his support (that is how Obama managed his Administration, by rewarding constituencies and supporters with top jobs that came with private fiefdoms), and Comey's Republican Party membership was used to disarm GOP Senate opposition.
as many have said in the Intel Community, one discovery leads to another...
Of course there may be additional evidence, but after a year of the top people in the world working on the case you're getting up every morning in the hope that:
1. Additional evidence will be found.
2. And that evidence will significantly change the direction of the investigation.
3. And that change will point at Trump and not someone else.
4. And that evidence will be of a criminal nature.
5. And that crime will be significant enough to form grounds for impeachment.
6. And the Congress will have the votes to impeach.
7. And impeachment will occur before Trump's agenda is enacted.
At this point in the investigation, each of those items on their own are low probability events. Simply finding new evidence is not enough, you have to go 7 for 7, which is significantly less likely.
Before yesterday, CNN had assured us that 1, 2, and 3 were already fulfilled and people were hoping for the long odds of 4 and 5 to pay off. But Comey blew that away with his testimony. As for Trump impeachment, the investigation is at 1.
It is not additional information you need. It's the ability to draw a seven-card straight flush. Rational people don't wake up in the morning looking for that to happen.
Trump is a liar is all the media has today. The real "dark clouds" at the NYT are over the newsroom, not the White House.
"Did Russia try to influence the fracking debate? Why would their sole and exclusive foreign policy aim be to elect a pro fracking President?"
They are probably more interested in having the sanctions lifted. What were they promised?
Sign of the times: May losing.
DECIDEDLY NOT a sign of the times: Republican president, House, Senate, governorships and state legislatures.
Leftists choose reality. Need at 6 and 11.
More flexibility.
Revoke the 19th amendment.
All women, especially left looney boomer women, should be tested for toxicity by cat.
Both are now in retreat.
More soft weasely words. Retreat. May is still PM and has a good chance to form a government as in she stays PM.
Retreat= We're still sucking just not as bad.
The dominance of the Comey story in the print NYT is largely, I surmise, a matter of production schedules. You could do a full blow-out on his testimony and get it into the print edition, but the U.K. election results came substantially later. The exit poll stories led for most of the evening on TV and radio here on the East Coast before results slow started coming in.
People who can only see red may have some neurological disorder.
Another New York Times article:
Comey Bluntly Raises Possibility of Trump Obstruction and Condemns His ‘Lies’.
So of course, I expect a quote where Comey bluntly raises the possibility. Surprisingly, I find no such quote, but I do find the statement that he raises the question, then says that answering that would fall to Mueller.
Of course, not finding the quote in the NYTs does not mean that Comey didn't say it, so I turn to the transcript, where surely I'll find Comey bluntly raising the possibility.
Nope. The question is raised by Burr, not Comey. Comey only responds, saying I don't think it's for me to say whether the conversation I had with the president was an effort to obstruct.
So more fake news by the New York Times.
Sad!
The President has a birthday coming up this week and his biggest birthday present is moving into the White House. Will his midnight Tweets start to have pics of Melania in a Dolce and Gabanna nightie. That would make him the most popular Tweeter on earth.
"Furthermore, Comey’s suggestion, under oath, that Mueller is now investigating Trump on charges of obstruction of justice is a bombshell that I’ve not seen sufficiently emphasized in the twitterverse or the blogosphere as of this moment.
Everyone seems to be focused now on criminal obstruction of justice by the president, but the underlying matter of possible collusion between Russia and a campaign headed by now-President Trump to subvert our sovereignty and democracy—a subject Comey said he could not speak about in an open session— is no less explosive, as is the possible charge of potentially impeachable (even if not criminal in the statutory sense) abuse of presidential power in the form of lying about why the FBI director was fired and defaming and thereby injuring the FBI as an institution vital to our national security. Of a piece might be Trump’s lying about President Barack Obama’s supposed wiretapping of Trump in his tower, but nobody asked about that abuse of power.
All those possible charges are more plausible now than they were before Comey was asked to testify, and each of them is potentially devastating to the Trump presidency."
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/08/james-comey-trump-russia-hearing-reaction-analysis-legal-experts-215239
One thing to note for the conspiracy theorists, the polls before the British election favored the Conservatives much more so than the actual result.
Whenever I see UK election returns, I am amazed at how the Tories would dominate off Scotland were independent. Yet, strangely, it seems the Tories generally oppose independence, I guess because of tradition or English pride or whatever. Scotland has a sclerotic economy, consumes public resources and votes against the Tories. Cut them loose.
Maybe it has something to do with the petroleum reserves up north?
It's clear that Trump got played by Comey. Less clear is the final outcome. David Brooks has one take on how this will play out.
Good News for May. The Northern Ireland guys will enter a coalition with the Conservatives to keep her as PM.
The Scots Irish to the rescue, once again.
I didn't notice which newspaper it was, but as I passed a rack of papers in the grocery store this morning, I saw a headline that said Comey accused Trump of lying.
Ficta: I never got the impression that May was that much of a populist.
She isn't a "populist" by any stretch of the definition. But her party is called the "conservative party", ergo something something pushback against populism and voters express love for status quo, just want more of it.
But I'm not sure I understand British politics that well.
That's OK. A lot of people around here don't seem to understand American politics very well.
Blogger BDNYC said...
I am amazed at how the Tories would dominate off Scotland were independent.
It is a dynamic system, both parties would have to adjust in the event of Sottish independence. In such a system no one can 'dominate' for any prolonged period, which is a good thing.
It looks like the Tories will join with the Democratic Unionist Party [DUP] of Northern Island to form a government. That should be interesting on several levels.
@ Bedpan Annie (AKA Inga)
Most reasonably intelligent people try to convince others of their position by marshalling superior logic and a strong grasp of the facts, not by yelling louder.
I am beginning to think you are truly delusional. I am also starting to think that shared delusions is really all the Left has to offer.
The Scots should go.
Inga struggles with the idea that headlines are just...headlines, and often, in themselves, have no bearing on reality whatsoever. She shares the childlike 20th Century working-class belief that, if it's in print, it must be true. She, and her "sisters", have a lot of frustration and befuddlement ahead of them.
The political center would shift to the right. Labour "adjusting" would mean becoming more like the Conservatives.
ARM
If Scotland goes independent then England will not have a labour government for decades.
Inga thinks the Euros are so much more enlightened than we are, just like she thinks Reality Winner is a hero and patriot.
"The French-German broadcaster ARTE has reportedly shelved a documentary on antisemitism because it doesn’t bash Israel enough. ARTE and WDR, the publicly-funded TV networks that commissioned the 90-minute documentary, have decided to confine the film to the archives, calling it “unbalanced”. “You can’t make a film on antisemitism without saying every three minutes that the Palestinians are the victims of Israelis,” the co-producer of the documentary, Joachim Schröder, told The Jerusalem Post.
The documentary makers reject the objections publicised by the broadcasters as eyewash. “It’s not about balance,” Schröder was quoted saying in the German newspaper Bild, “How can a film on Antisemitism be ‘balanced’? ARD with offices in Strasbourg is obviously fearful of calling out the Jew-hatred in France and Germany.” Both ARTE and WDR are financed by German taxpayers."
There's still one constituency unreported, probably some Kentish rotten borough like Shitterton-on-Dwiddle.
My heart sinks at the thought that the feet of neither Elmo nor Lord Buckethead shall stand in the hallowed halls of the Mother of all Parliaments.
Lord Buckethead [harumph] what a fraud. It takes more than just a loony hat to be a genuine loony. The voters see that clearly enough.
It's all about keeping their subscribers emotionally satisfied.
ValJar says US is no longer beacon of dope. Perhaps I misheard.
Sadly, it is the Paper headline that is splayed out in every starbucks across the nation, and echoed by AP hacks. We are vacationing in an isolated area of the Oregon coast, and the local paper echoes that riff: "comey: trump staff lied about russia"
Sigh. This will not be over until . . . ??
The NYT and WAPO hope that people will forget their baby hunts and subscribe to the next ball of yarns they are spinning.
Fake news is going to do what fake news does, keep SCREAMING fake news. They can still make a profitable business catering to the bubble.
Americans voted Republican, but not before rejecting most Republican candidates. I imagine that there is a similar dynamic across the pond. No mortal gods.
@Quaestor,
Lord Buckethead [harumph] what a fraud. It takes more than just a loony hat to be a genuine loony. The voters see that clearly enough.
That is exactly the sort of politics of nihilism & despair we've come to expect from your ilk, Quaestor. We need policies & programs to lift up the British nation & people. Who but Lord Buckethead could come up with a program as far-sighted as the Nationalization of Adele?
YoungHegelian said...
That is exactly the sort of politics of nihilism & despair
LOL.
Thoughts about yesterday ...
May lost "bigly," but -- per Piers Morgan -- back when she was Home Secretary she reduced the country's police forces by 20,000. When she did that, did she realize she was mortgaging her party's future to the terrorists? Probably not. But her government had two responses to the suicide bombing at the Ariana Grande concert and the London Bridge attacks, and neither of them worked. The first was in response to the attacks themselves, where the empty words of the British politicians were in stark contrast to those who did something -- drive wounded children to hospitals in their own cars, or the restaurant-goer who shouted "F**k you, I'm Millwall" at a terrorist dressed in the jersey of the Arsenal team and single-handedly took on three armed terrorists with his bare hands.
The second failure of May's government came when it turned out that the bomber at the Ariana Grande concert and at least two of the three terrorists at London Bridge were well-known to authorities (one of the London Bridge terrorists was featured in a documentary called "The Jihadi Next Door") but the authorities pleaded that there were so many people whose named had been given to authorities as potential and only so much they could do with limited resources. Excu-u-u-use me? Your government cut 20,000 police officers and now you claim to have insufficient resources? Oops.
Inga - You are supposedly a nurse; I feel sorry for the patients you "allegedly" cared for. I believe you have taken the title of Nurse Cratchit form Hilary. Of course, you can share the title, as she seems to be your mentor (or is that mental).
"You think that we are not going to push back against all that has occurred? "
Make your best move, cupcake.
We're ready and waiting.
Maybe there's some principle of journalism that dictates that a foreign election gets front-page priority over domestic news..
Pretty chauvinistic outlook. Now all domestic news is more important than whatever happens in the world itself? You can always go to the state-by-state rundown in the back of the front section of the USA Today.
The British elections are newsworthy because your Orange Lunatic, Cheetoh Tweeto, saw his election as a resurgence of the "globalist right," if there even is such a thing. Theresa May's losses at the polls discredit this notion. The rest of the world is back on track with competent, decent, tolerant government. See ya in 2018!
The rest of the world is back on track with competent, decent, tolerant government.
The rest of the world is on track with terminal dhimmitude.
The rest of the world is on track with terminal dhimmitude.
The part of the world that you contain in your head is stuck in a single-issue obsession.
But it's always nice when amateur Muslim theologians project based on what's in their crystal ball.
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