Letter to the University of Virginia President Teresa Sullivan. Signed by 469 faculty members and students.
Sullivan's response is a wan disclaimer:
Quoting Jefferson (or any historical figure) does not imply an endorsement of all the social structures and beliefs of his time, such as slavery and the exclusion of women and people of color from the university.Good luck fending off the critics with that kind of thing. You could quote Hitler and say that, and Sullivan's parenthetical shows she's perfectly aware of the weakness of her defense, which is no defense at all.
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১০৪টি মন্তব্য:
The Taliban blew up the giant Buddhas of Bamiyan.
The academic left is determined to destroy our history for similar reasons.
She's a weak and ineffective leader, which seems to be what they want.
If I were the President of UVA, I would have responded.
Thank you for your letter. As Thomas Jefferson said "Nothing gives one person so much advantage over another as to remain always cool and unruffled under all circumstances," which I intend to heed.
When complaining that you're offended is treated as some great accomplishment, we get more of it. Surprise!
469. I invite you to think deeply about that.
They got women voting right.
The left proclaims the names of the former leader be removed from the pyramids.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bQnxlHZsjY
Sullivan showed her spinelessness in the Rolling Stone fake rape story, eagerly sacrificing the rights of many innocent people by shutting down the entire Greek system "just in case." Nor am I aware of her standing up, as the real facts emerged, and defending the slandered fraternity or Dean Eramo. Result? The thugs had her measure and have now chosen a new pretext to acquire and exhibit their power.
The way to stop a bully is to punch him hard in the nose as soon as he starts. Otherwise you just pay compound interest from an ever-weaker position.
"Though we realize that some members of our university community may be inspired by quotes from Jefferson..."
Like these?
"When you're running for office, you have to do a whole lotta things you don't believe in."
"What's honesty got to do with politics?"
"You're right. Nothing's worse than a honky except being married to one."
I am Laslo.
When I went to Squadron Officer School (SOS) (a leadership school), there was an old Colonel who walked into the first day of class and said "This course assumes that all of the students have a strong backbone."
Then words to the effect that we were to pull the weak masses up to our high standards, and not the other way around. He thought that weak leadership was murder.
He insisted, that if this assumption were false, we should self-eliminate before he found out.
I like a man who doesn't faint before the enemy. The enemy of the wet noodle.
The founding of UVA was one of three achievements Jefferson wanted listed on his tombstone. Being President didn't even make the cut.
I'm perpetually amazed at the founders for what they established and how difficult it continues to be for people to live up to it. It's like God was there guiding them, saying this will be a challenge to Americans of all stripes forever, because it's that important. They had an incredible understanding of power that is still beyond most people today. Who among these signatories imagines themselves superior to that slaveholder, and what have they accomplished to convince themselves of that beyond being born in modern times?
What children. What spoiled, immature children.
Some of us have already tried to come to grips with the fact that the author of some of the most ringing sentiments on human liberty owned slaves. And that, far from being the victim of retroactive moralizing, he seems to have had some moral qualms about slavery in the middle of his life, then hardened in his support for the institution toward the end.
"You could quote Hitler and say that,"
Yes - but Hitler was as pure a villain as we find in modern history. I think what these people object to is the assumption that, all in all, Jefferson was more hero than villain. Which he was.
Do democrats still have Jefferson-Jackson dinners? That was a big fundraising thing.
Who ARE their heroes now?
Spineless against spineless. Pure comic relief.
bagoh20:
"Who among these signatories imagines themselves superior to that slaveholder, and what have they accomplished to convince themselves of that beyond being born in modern times?"
That is really well put.
I wonder if academics realize how foolish they look to the rest of America when they freak out about Jefferson, the author of the Declarstion of Independence and former President. The guy was critical to the founding and early Republic.
We are the champions, my friends
And we'll keep on fighting 'til the end
We are the champions
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions
...of the world
And ISIS threatens to raze the the Sphinx and pyramids too, for similar reasons. This is the stuff of zealot totalitarians.
David Begley said...
I wonder if academics realize how foolish they look to the rest of America when they freak out about Jefferson, the author of the Declarstion of Independence and former President. The guy was critical to the founding and early Republic.
When they demand perfection in the lives of historical figures, they make themselves open to similar examination. In that, they will come up far short of perfection.
The sixth-century desert bandit and slave-owner Mohammed never should be quoted.
It is the duty of university students to be offended at anything and everything. It is the duty of the university to set policy. The tails have been wagging the dogs for far too long.
Is academia determined to make itself the enemy of our republic?
It's kind of fun watching the left destroy itself. I just hope they don't take others down with them.
The beauty of American Exceptionalism is that it's a call to obey a higher moral authority. We fall short of it repeatedly, but again and again, the poor, the outcast, the discriminated against refer to it, to remind us of our duty.
When American Exceptionalism is destroyed, when God is removed from religion, we have nothing to obey except power.
That is why Obama denigrated exceptionalism, so that he wouldn't be forced to live up to our ideals.
As for those poor snowflakes at UVA, if I were president, I would suggest that if they believe their rhetoric, that they are clearly benefiting from an institution founded on racist principles and that they should leave before they contaminate their shriveled souls any further.
Amazing that these are supposed to be educated people able to parse and understand nuanced arguments. Instead, they're acting like toddlers throwing their toys out of the playpen. And their president isn't much better.
The University of Virginia has shriveled as a respected institution.
Coupe: great story. Character is destiny; but part of character is choosing and working to strengthen character. IMHO.
Character also depends to a degree on the culture, acquired from deep inculcation or from daily surroundings. It is easier to be strong when you are surrounded by strong people.
Sullivan is at the top of her food chain, and the whole thing is populated with like-minded herbivores.
When I see "Thomas Jefferson" and "quotation" in the same sentence, first thing comes to mind is:
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
No defense at all? She's right. Quoting someone aligns the speaker with the original utterer in a limited way, but a quote does not imply endorsement of all beliefs and social structures of the speaker's time.
The approach of the objectors is the same as used by SJW's who don't like what the Consitution says. They assert the language is irrelevant since it was written by privileged white men without the input of women, gays, racial minorities, etc. It is not only a very convenient way to avoid values and principles that bind society but also promotes the replacement of those common values with narrower, cheaper and divisive dogma.
As if they are anywhere near Jefferson's stature. He founded the University fer Christ's sake.
469. I invite you to think deeply about that.
I'd like to know their fields of study. Ten to one the majority are in bullshit departments like Women's Studies. The most pernicious legacies of the Sixties are these "studies" departments, which were forced down the throats of university trusties by campus radicals who led student strikes and occupations (accompanied by vandalism and arson) against the good order of learning.
Taken to its logical conclusion, the 469 should resign. They are working at a school founded by a slave owner.
I remember a discussion I once had with a progressive leftest who was railing against Jefferson for owning slaves. "Worse than Hitler", he said. I asked him if he was in favor of abortion. And of course he said he was. I then asked him what if it should turn out in 150 years or so that scientific evidence has proved beyond a doubt that a fetus has conscious thoughts within two or three weeks after conception, would be fair then to judge him and others who think like him on the basis of this new knowledge? His answer? A big F ... You.
No law professor ever should cite Earl Warren. He initiated the wartime internment of all of California's Japanese residents.
For a self evident truth, freedom isn't all that self evident. It took until the nineteenth century to ban slavery. Jefferson wasn't the only one who missed the call. Socrates, Jesus, Mohammed, and Maimonides had much to say about morality, but they nowhere condemned the owning of slaves. Perhaps it's time to throw these other so called religious or ethical leaders into the dust bin of history.........In the way that people accepted the obvious fact that the sun rotated around the earth, they accepted the principle that subordination not equality was the organizing principle of human society. We're all primates and that's how monkeys organize their societies. We were true to our base and basic nature.......It was Jefferson who subverted this doctrine of subordination. He did not extend his doctrine of equality to all races, but he did extend it to small farmers. That was a step forward, not backwards, and he should be honored for making it.
The sixth-century desert bandit Mohammed not only owned slaves, he advocated the raping of female slaves, and he established a religious government that systematically castrated male slaves.
I wonder if academics realize how foolish they look to the rest of America when they freak out about Jefferson,
They don't. They teach "History" from Zinn's book, which denigrates everything we stand for as a nation and a people.
That was probably the source of the statement on my daughter's study guide that "The silent majority was made up of white people who refused to accept the 1964 Civil Rights Act." No mention of Vietnam or Nixon.
Gramsci planned to empty the minds of children to leave room for communist ideology.
Orthodox Marxism had predicted that socialist revolution was inevitable in capitalist societies. By the early 20th century, no such revolution had occurred in the most advanced nations. Capitalism, it seemed, was more entrenched than ever. Capitalism, Gramsci suggested, maintained control not just through violence and political and economic coercion, but also through ideology. The bourgeoisie developed a hegemonic culture, which propagated its own values and norms so that they became the "common sense" values of all. People in the working-class (and other classes) identified their own good with the good of the bourgeoisie, and helped to maintain the status quo rather than revolting.
To counter the notion that bourgeois values represented "natural" or "normal" values for society, the working class needed to develop a culture of its own.
To accomplish this, the Marxists needed to destroy the culture. That's what this is about.
I don't understand the credibility protocol for these petitions. How many signatures do the rules say you need? Simple majority? A quorum? A bunch? A few? It always just seems to be implied the number of signatories is sufficient for their demands to be met. Is there an internationally recognized treaty at Weights & Measures somewhere?
Michael K said...
The Taliban blew up the giant Buddhas of Bamiyan.
The academic left is determined to destroy our history for similar reasons.
It is the same basic impulse; to destroy history for short term political reasons. One is reminded of the defacing of the statues of Robert E Lee and others over the week-end by the anarchist/criminal organization BLM.
Ann sez "...she's perfectly aware of the weakness of her defense, which is no defense at all."
Why does she need a defense? A defense to quote one of the greatest thinkers in western history? Ann, do you think she needs a defense?
How much longer before blacks drop the hate-word "American" from "African American"?
Comparing anything to the ideal is the trend and an impossible standard. No one can live up to it. And it's not a sincere goal. It's a tool for gaining advantage of debates.
There are very, very few people we can quote if we required they be perfect.
Certainly no one on the progressive side. But that's part of the issue. There's no assumption that everyone be perfect. Ethical demands are arbitrary.
Meanwhile, there are a significant number of abolitionists who would likewise not find influence in today's progressive culture.
I'd be happy for everyone to follow John Wesley's lead, after all, but I suspect they'd find problems quoting him as well.
The signers of the letter had to know that the answer was going to be "No." They were engaging in showboating to get approval from their fellow leftists. If they really believed what they wrote, they would leave UVA. Of course, they won't do that because showboating has no cost, while leaving would be costly.
"469. I invite you to think deeply about that."
Tyranny of the few.
From the Cavalier Daily ...
.... Asst. Psychology Prof. Noelle Hurd drafted the letter.
“The intention of the email was to start a conversation with our administration regarding ways to be more inclusive,” Hurd said in an email statement.
A conversation is something you do over lunch or coffee with two or three people.
The response from the University President would have been different if the initial email was from one or two people.
We sit on our high chairs elevated by time and cast judgments and aspersions down on the dead who came before.
Who will cast aspersions on us in 200 years?
Ann goes full Godwin in comparing quoting Jefferson to quoting Hitler. Good one!
"We would like for our administration to understand that although some members of this community may have come to this university because of Thomas Jefferson’s legacy, others of us came here in spite of it."
I remember this one time, in band camp, when a bunch of us trumpeters went to a flute party just to blare away on our trumpets, because the flautists couldn't be heard over our instruments. What a laugh! They told us to get lost, and we said we had come in spite of our inability to play flutes.
Ah, to be fourteen again.
Another thing socialist George Orwell had right. Is there any doubt but that the American left, left to its own devices, would impose a fairly vicious totalitarianism upon the rest of us rubes?
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
Do you have to apologize to the faculty for the statement above?
It just a little bit ahead of its time.
How much does it cost to piss a lot of money away and attend the University of Virginia?
JPS: bagoh20:
"Who among these signatories imagines themselves superior to that slaveholder, and what have they accomplished to convince themselves of that beyond being born in modern times?"
That is really well put.
Second that.
George Orwell was "labor left;" our gentry left is more of the Brave New World variety.
Boycat: "...Is there any doubt but that the American left, left to its own devices, would impose a fairly vicious totalitarianism upon the rest of us rubes?" IMHO no doubt, but IMHO it is tautological. People go "Left" primarily because they want to bully other people. The coherence and real-world value of Left ideology are at best neutral and usually severely negative.
The Left is just a way to indulge in infantile emotions, disguised as a political philosophy.
Please take shots at that hypothesis; 3 shots for $1, Paypal accepted.
though their children, left unrestrained, may of course easily descend into Lord of the Flies madness.
It may be a weak or feeble defense, but how much of a defense does one need against such a preposterous idea as the notion that we must disown past leaders because they were not perfect people?
Per Bill Peschel:
When American Exceptionalism is destroyed, when God is removed from religion, we have nothing to obey except power.
Bingo!
Per Owen: The Left is just a way to indulge in infantile emotions, disguised as a political philosophy.
Another winner!
Defending against leftist lunacy is a losing game. An effective response would have been to completely ignore the assault on rationality, and if asked about it later just laugh out loud. Even better would be to quote to the leftist agitator profs the response of McAuliffe at Bastogne to the Germans.
Of course, quoting McAuliffe, a warmongering US general, would be denounced as well. But then the laughter from the entire world would drown out the leftists' idiotic yammerings.
There are no great men or heroes in Leftworld outside of Marvel Comics.
Just as when a toddler throws a temper tantrum, the best policy is to ignore them. When they are actually destructive, though, they must be punished.
What would these signers think of a prophet (and a religion founded on and institutions linked to such prophet) who was an unapologetic and avid slave owner - a prophet who bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves, whose embracing of slavery helped slavery persist in may parts of the world until the 19th century (and even later still in some places).
I am willing (anonymously) to draft an appropriate petition if someone is willing to walk around UVa asking for signatures.
Tantrum
A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles.
Theresa Sullivan needs to take a hard look at what happened at the University of Missouri, and take a hard line while she still has her job. She should reflect upon the number of adjunct professors floating around out there who would sell their mothers into slavery to get a tenure track position and issue a letter to each signatory who is a professor, written along the following lines:
"Dear Professor Schmuckenfucker:
You and many of your colleagues signed a letter to me wishing to distance yourself from the words and principles of our founder, the third President of the United States. If you genuinely cannot abide teaching students according Jefferson's goals for his "academical community" please sign below and return this letter to me. Failure to return a signed letter to my office will be taken as a sign that you are recanting the sentiments expressed in your letter of November 11.
Please be aware that we recognize your contributions to the University of Virginia and we will miss you. You will be expected to complete any courses you are currently teaching and produce final grades per the University calendar, the vacate your office not later than the Monday following the end of final exams. A committee composed of professors emeriti will monitor your pedagogy between now and the end of classes to assure a professional and orderly wrap up of your duties.
Sincerely,
Theresa Sullivan, President
I, Professor Schmuckenfucker, do hereby resign from my position on the faculty of the University of Virginia as I can no longer bear to be associated with a university founded by a slaveholder.
_____________________________________ "
“The intention of the email was to start a conversation with our administration regarding ways to be more inclusive,” Hurd said in an email statement."
That's the ticket. Because getting 469 preachers to signal their virtue is the way adults start honest conversations.
It's what they always say when the latest campus outrage turns out to be a hoax created by the ones allegedly targeted.
"Yeah, you busted us, but the intention of the . . . [swastika] [racist phrase][noose][bacon sandwich][nasty words] etc . . . was to start a conversation regarding inclusiveness. -- it is symbolic of the real XXXism that we just know exists."
Good one, Big Mike. That really should be their policy and it should be executed.
Waiting for the on campus Cultural Revolution to start. We already have the modern day Red Guards. Leftism doesn't tolerate competing ideologies. Unfortunately, our host may one of the first put in the camps.
"I wonder if academics realize how foolish they look to the rest of America when they freak out about Jefferson,"
They are ensconced in a chimerical, provincial, circle-jerking environment where they are encouraged to become the logical extension of Pauline Kael.
Waiting for the on campus Cultural Revolution to start. We already have the modern day Red Guards.
Rae, I've been thinking the same thing. I think I posted something similar the other day. People should read up on the CR. We are currently closer to this situation, IMO, than that of the French Revolution.
I would like to focus on the quote from the letter:
For many of us, the inclusion of Jefferson quotations in these e-mails undermines the message of unity, equality and civility that you are attempting to convey.
There is literally nothing that could be quoted that would succeed in this task, barring complete and total conformity of all recipients and then quoting whatever they consider to be scripture. This is an impossible standard unless you assume the author is a totalitarian. This is probably a good assumption.
By the same standard, Barack Obama could not be quoted since he has sinned against the academic orthodoxy on multiple occasions, including gay marriage (until it profited him to change his position) which appears to be considered equivalent of slavery in academic circles.
PS: The obvious difference is in ideology. The strategies and tactics are the same. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
They want to "start a conversation" leading to the banishing of references to all slaveholders, slave dealers, slave suppliers from the university communi-tay, right? No more African kings, no more noble Romans, no more Mohammed(pbuh)...right?
Right?
rehajm said... I don't understand the credibility protocol for these petitions. How many signatures do the rules say you need? Simple majority? A quorum? A bunch? A few? It always just seems to be implied the number of signatories is sufficient for their demands to be met. Is there an internationally recognized treaty at Weights & Measures somewhere?
For the record, UVA has roughly 22,000 students and 2,000 "academic staff." The petition was signed by approximated 2% of the overall population. This is one step up from some crank yelling at passer-bys from his porch.
Sebastian said... 469. I invite you to think deeply about that.
I thought about it. It sounds perverted. Or is that just me?
Would any figure in recorded history live up to their exacting standards?
Can any of them live up to their exacting standards?
we hope to bring to light that many of us are deeply offended
The response of "What else is new?" comes to mind.
“The intention of the email was to start a conversation with our administration regarding ways to be more inclusive,” Hurd said in an email statement.
I don't thinks she knows what a "discussion" is. Reeks of a "listen to my monologue" moment.
Mockturtle, I think all they really need is their Chairman Mao.
What really scares me, honestly, is 20 years from now the students educated in this environment will be moving into the government.
The gunsmithing lathe is looking better.
The response should be "tough shit. If you don't like it then leave."
@Real, see my draft letter from the university president upthread.
The problem with efforts like this is that no historical figure is pure as the driven snow. Jefferson made huge contributions to founding our country. He was ahead of his time. He also owned slaves. Should we ban all reference to the past because the people were not perfect? All people are a product of their times. Virtually all whites in 1800 were what we would call bigots today, but they still built a nation and wrote great books and discovered things.
Ah, the administration shows their SJW chops.
First we threw out Columbus. Then George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. Next will be our Constitution because it was forged and signed by some slaveholders. Even Harriett Tubman will be discredited when it is discovered that she was a devout Christian. But Madonna, Lady Gaga, Jay Z, etc.--they are to be honored.
.......beyond being born in modern times?
To follow up on this excellent comment, it is the hubris of the modern lefties that leads them to sneer smugly down their snouts, dripping with moral superiority, at historical figures under the assumption that our collective wisdom acquired (acquired at great cost) over the centuries that have passed would have been original thoughts to themselves had they lived as contemporaries of those figures.
It's safe to say that had they lived in Dickensian times or during the time of Queen Isabella, the vast majority of our lefties would have occupied their day shoveling manure from the stables, sweeping gutters with straw brooms, tugging at their forelocks when their betters passed by, and loitering by the back door hoping for someone to leave a pie unattended on the window sill.
They never seem to grasp the absurdity of imposing our modern values on historical figures when viewing them through the thick lens of time.
- Krumhorn
(Re: 8:53 Comment)
No one has love for George Jefferson?
Weezy!
I am Laslo.
The important thing is to focus on the mote in our neighbor's eye. That is endlessly productive of complaint but, best of all, it avoids anyone looking at that 6x6 beam sticking out of our own face.
The cowardice and laziness of these people is hard to describe. They are moral and intellectual parasites, depending on the work of others, over which they can carp and whine and quibble.
Were I in the Virginia legislature, I would pass a law firing UVa faculty who work there "in spite of" Jefferson's legacy -- for cause.
By the way, I doubt that Sally Hemings felt nearly as fucked by Jefferson as we have been fucked by the libruls.
- Krumhorn
Krumhorn, I daresay Hemings felt privileged.
"Krumhorn, I daresay Hemings felt privileged."
As "liberals" want the serfs to feel when they fist them using the Mailed Fist of the State.
As I often say--sometimes here--the people who seem the most obsessive about antebellum slavery are usually the most liberty-phobic, coercive and statist.
Sullivan, like Salovey, Eisgruber, Brodhead and other presidents of institutions of purported higher learning, prostrate themselves before the forces of the certifiably insane Left. A leader who took pride in UVA and was mindful of its origins would say "You know what, folks? Without Thomas Jefferson, you and I wouldn't have our current jobs and we'd be paying taxes to Whitehall, London so get over yourselves!"
"Without Thomas Jefferson, you and I wouldn't have our current jobs and we'd be paying taxes to Whitehall, London so get over yourselves!"
I'd bet that most leftists would rather live in a colony of a more enlightened European country than in the horror that is contemporary Amerika.
I'd bet that most leftists would rather live in a colony of a more enlightened European country than in the horror that is contemporary Amerika.
Let's try it and see! :-)
I wonder if I'll still be alive when Americans are as ashamed of the 4th of July as they are of Columbus Day.
This is what happens when you pay the Danegeld. They come back with even more outrageous demands, until someone has the sense to throat punch them.
Fire every last one of them.
Exactly so, Fen!
And make sure you use real fire, not that cheap stuff!
Or real fires, if you prefer.
Just think of how many years the Leftist Nitwits have owned:
1. The Media
2. The Universities
3. The Culture
Time to take them all back, I say! If we can't do it now, it'll never happen.
"Thomas Jefferson wrote to a friend that University of Virginia students ‘are not of ordinary significance only: they are exactly the persons who are to succeed to the government of our country,".
Let's hope, at least, that he was wrong about that one.
The average student graduates more than $30,000 in debt and totally unprepared for life. The average professor is a cossetted progressive who would be unable to compete in the private sector.
I hope Trump shuts it all down. The student loans, everything.
Are there any historical figures the left reveres? I can't imagine who they could be. Who could possibly live up to their rigid non-contextual code? Who in history so transcended his place and times?
I've had some success with this argument, when dealing with students who think like the UVa signatories:
It's very likely that we are all doing things that people a century or two from now will disapprove of, and there's absolutely no way to tell what those things are.
It's possible that everyone in the future will be a vegetarian, and despise those of us who eat meat. (That's what today's vegetarians like to think.) Then again, it's possible that everyone in the future will be an omnivore, and sneer at us for being silly bigots and not eating dogs and cats and horses and snake and rats and bugs and slugs, as well as pigs and chickens.
It's possible that Mormons or Muslims will rule the world, and our own descendants will despise us for drinking alcohol and having premarital sex and (if it's Muslims) eating pork, and think us terrible bigots for not allowing multiple wives. Then again, it's possible that the world will be totally libertarian, and no one will criticize smokers of tobacco or marijuana, and Coke will have cocaine in it again. Than again, it's possible that the world will be even more health-conscious, and dope- and cigarette-smokers will be as rare as pipe-smokers are even now. Who can tell? And do you really want to be judged by standards you do not and cannot know?
You're all welcome to add your own examples.
@Dr Weevil: A couple of the left's sacred cows: It's possible that in the future everyone will be appalled by the very idea that it's a woman's right to choose to abort the life in her womb and will hold anyone who championed that choice in utter contempt. It's possible that in the future, they will discover a physiological component to same-sex attraction, one that can be identified and altered in utero, and as homosexuality fades from the human experience, people will find the idea that two people of the same sex would actually marry quite beyond the pale.
Susie,
You mean besides Stalin, Mao, and above all Che?
Blasted autocorrect! The preceding was, of course, addressed to Sukie.
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