Think about this: a candidate as bumbling as Johnson, who was ignored by the mainstream media except when there was a story that allowed the media to ridicule him for supposedly not knowing about the world, did far better than any other Libertarian candidate in history. That should send a message....
১৩ নভেম্বর, ২০১৬
"How should Democrats respond to Gary Johnson and Jill Stein supporters?"
My son John, a Johnson voter, opines.
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I've got a brilliant fucking idea as to how Democrats should respond to Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, Republican, Constitution Party, People's Workers Party, & everyone else's supporters: humbly respect the fact that every individual has to make his or her moral choices as best they can according to their conscience.
There's faith. There's moral philosophy. But there is not, & cannot be, moral science. Don't act like there is & you've got it.
Yeah, the media was too stupid to know that Gary Johnson was taking votes away from Trump. Dummies, all of them. I especially call at CNN for their stupidity. What a bunch of imbeciles.
The message is: no matter what, Libertarian party candidates are nothing more than sand in the gears of American electoral politics.
There are NO libertarian governors, US senators or congresscritters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_(United_States)
Look at the summary on the right.
Pathetic.
Libertarians need a patron saint. I nominate St. Jude, the patron saint of Hopeless Cases.
With marijuana increasingly legalized across the states, the Libertarians have no issue to attract voters. Johnson should have received at least 10% of the vote, given the high unfavorable ratings of Clinton and Trump. 35 of the states are not competitive at all so
he should have banked a much higher percentage of votes in those states. Johnson and Weld were also drips.
I also voted for Johnson and thought the same thing.
But... will the message be received?
Gary Johson. We'll he's not Ayn Rand. More like Tommy Chong.
Plus, he's not even libertarian. Why would centralized power Dems get a message from libertarians?
But helped get Trump elected, and that's alright with me.
I voted for Johnson. VERY happy to be sand in the gears of this awful, mindless machine.
And yet Johnson still remained less than 5%, and the Lib. Party still has NEVER elected one of their party to a Federal post.
The Democrats should respond by cleaning up the DNC.
Johnson was a foolish candidate and had a bunch of left wing positions.
If Johnson were an athlete, fans would be shouting "Overrated Overrated" at him. I don't get what any smart person sees in him. I suspect they think it makes them feel smarter by voting for the Libertarian candidate.
Libertarian party candidates are nothing more than sand in the gears of American electoral politics.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
I don't get what any smart person sees in him.
Well, any smart person could see that he was never going to be president, so perhaps people had other motives voting for him. I don't believe he cost Hillary BTW, I think that these people's second choice was probably to not vote.
I think it's been too-little-remarked the extent to which some of us "reliable" Democratic voters (like John Cohen) were simply unwilling to vote for Hillary.
In my case, I was totally convinced that Bill Clinton behaved egregiously as President and fully deserved some kind of disapprobation. At the time, I did not think it merited removal from office -- especially so close to the end of his presidency. But I was absolutely confident that "history" would remember him as "the President who was impeached for a sexual impropriety". (you know what I mean.) TO vote for Hillary (for me) was to vote for rewriting Bill's historical place -- not as a relatively inconsequential and morally depraved president (as one pundit predicted known as "the President between the two Bushes"), but as either the "second 3 or 4 term President" (with an asterisk applied to FDR), or as the only (first?) President who returned to White House as a spouse.
Possibly, if Hillary had been a more accomplished politician on her own (in the Senate or as Sec of State), or if the Clinton Foundation activity had not been such a strong reminder (again, to me) of the first round of corruption (Whitewater itself, and cattle futures, for example) in Arkansas, I would have held my nose (or not have had to hold my nose) and voted Hillary.
But really truly -- don't blame Johnson and Klein for my (our) unwillingness to vote for Hillary.
The Democrats need to attract Stein and Johnson voters with a new plank in their platform - legalize hookers and coke - but make environmentally friendly .
Well they should respond by re-tooling their message and perhaps co-opt some popular liberterian ideas. In reality, they are likely to ignore that Johnson even existed. I mean really, Ross Perot got 19% of the vote and how much impact did that have other than being a historical footnote?
BTW, did Althouse ever disclose who she voted for? I don't think so. Is she ashamed?
Just imagine how well the Libertarians would have done if they'd run some actual libertarians.
The Libertarian Party was taken over a long time ago by the Pacifists. I don't expect a young voter to know this. But can't he see the utter incoherency of their position on illegal immigration and foreign policy?
"Just imagine how well the Libertarians would have done if they'd run some actual libertarians."
Actually they would've done even worse. The more people know about Libertarianism and what it CAN mean, the more they dislike it.
Better keep the focus on legal hookers and coke.
"Just imagine how well the Libertarians would have done if they'd run some actual libertarians."
Actually they would've done even worse. The more people know about Libertarianism and what it CAN mean, the more they dislike it.
Better keep the focus on legal hookers and coke.
They could respond to them or lecture them that they were idiots that wasted their votes.
Democrats end up in the same place...
Have you seen how many pages of regulations it takes for legal weed?
Easy question. Ignore them. Their 15 minutes expired.
Libertarian of a kind. Liberals without "benefits" will never win. Why settle for a cut-rate liberal?
For a long time, I've said that while I'm ambivalent on the legalization of pot, what pushes me barely into the pro-legal camp was that the libertarian party would finally, FINALLY talk about anything else.
Well, it's getting legalized more and more, and unfortunately it looks like all they want to talk about is implementing more lefty crap. There is apparently no institution that the Left can't infiltrate and corrupt.
"legalizing marijuana," "sanctuary cities," etc., etc. still is sedition.
n.n said...Libertarian of a kind. Liberals without "benefits" will never win. Why settle for a cut-rate liberal?
--
Free stuff Trumps fun stuff.
@AJ Lynch said...
If Johnson were an athlete, fans would be shouting "Overrated Overrated" at him. I don't get what any smart person sees in him. I suspect they think it makes them feel smarter by voting for the Libertarian candidate.
Overrated athlete? "Johnson has run 17 marathons, four Ironman Triathlons, is an active rock climber, and has climbed the seven highest summits on every continent, including Mount Everest (just after breaking a leg!)."
Johnson is much smarter than Trump and far more honest that Donald and Hillary. He actually governed the state of New Mexico and has been successful in business without any bankruptcies on his record or other business failures. I honestly don't understand how anyone could vote for Hillary or Trump with an honest candidate in the race.
Because it makes more sense to pick from the two that can win. Welcome back.
facts not in evidence, he was a liberty candidate, with little interest in aspects of it, like speech, religion, self defense, perhaps solid on the 3rd amendment,
This year I voted 3rd party. I have voted Libertarian for prez x 2 since 1980. This year I voted for Darrell Castle (Constitution Party) rather than Libertarian because neither Johnson nor Weld didn't seem to believe in personal liberty.
Sometime in the 90s the Libertarians morphed into the Dope and Porn party, i.e., the Libertine Party. Ugh.
You know, the Dems should respond to Johnson and Stein as they respond to Trump - they should try to make the Democratic party better, more in touch with most of the country, and less dominated by DC/NYC insiders.
A lot of people didn't like Trump, but also looked at Hillary Clinton and couldn't stomach her corruption.
If Sanders had had the nomination, we'd have had a real race. The Dems have only themselves to blame, but looking at the electoral map downstream has to convey a pretty worrisome message to them. The politics of appealing/catering to fringe groups that don't even vote and in many cases, are largely unable to vote, is coming to an end.
Is she ashamed?
Why would anyone be ashamed of their vote?
The shame should be reserved for the Political Parties who served up two big servings of Meh to vote for.
How should Democrats respond to Gary Johnson and Jill Stein supporters?
That horse has sailed.
I commented in the last post. Reince Preibus managed to align the tea party with mainstream Republicans in Wisconsin, then guided the GOP through a potential presidential and down ticket disaster. Preibus probably can answer this question better than Hillary & Bill.
Every last single person who voted for Hillary should be sick to their stomach with shame. But we know, especially now witnessing their response to the election, that they are incapable of shame.
I'd focus more on the voters who voted for Trump using the line a vote for Johnson or Stein is a vote for Clinton.
If they have any brains at all, they will now push for a party-line agenda that is 60% Bernie's, 30% Stein's and 10% Johnson's. And they will primary out every candidate who is anything else.
That will be tough work. Most Democrats (I'd say 90%) are complete corporate tools of the establishment.
"Why would anyone be ashamed of their vote?"
Lots of people should be ashamed for a lot of things. The Nobel Prize committee for one.
":How should Democrats respond to Gary Johnson and Jill Stein supporters?"
With respect. Of course, what they will do is burn down their cars and businesses.
Johnson, ... did far better than any other Libertarian candidate in history. That should send a message....
....and the message is: significant numbers of Republicans hated Trump enough to waste their vote.
I'm all in favor of more states legalizing pot.
By 2020 the Dems won't be able to get their base off the couch, let alone to the polls.
I suppose the pragmatic answer is that in states where the outcome wasn't close, they shouldn't care, in close state races that Clinton won, they should be happy, and in states that Clinton narrowly lost, they may have an axe to grind. So it's triage.
Perhaps the Democrats could ask themselves how a party can fly on only one wing -- make that the extreme tip of the left wing.
The Coen's not only stopped time like in Hudsucker, they MADE TIME with "HAIL CESAR" nitwittically, supposed.
I told you shits, and I a gonna be tellin ya again because That's All I Got Left'
They should thank them, as should the rest of America, for helping to avoid a Hillary administration.
Differnt sort of question.
If, and it is a big *IF*, but if Trump decided to give Johnson an appointment, say Surgeon General, or Secretary of the Interior and put him in charge of the "disentangling" of federal drug law as it pertains to Mary Jane and how the states have started to whack away at it. Does it buy him or the GOP anything?
Could he use a Johnson in his Administration to sort of open the door to make a GOP endorsement of the Libertarian candidate for say Senate in 2018? Sort of like how the socialist in Vermont caucuses with the Democrats?
Just a thought.
Blogger richard mcenroe said...
I'm all in favor of more states legalizing pot.
By 2020 the Dems won't be able to get their base off the couch, let alone to the polls.
--
Haaa! And Taco Bell will build out for them...maybe start to deliver.
With R's and D's putting forth quite possibly two most unpopular candidates of all time, I would say, shrug it off as an unsurprising side effect of this election season.
On the other hand, the Democrats seem bound and determined to choose any assessment of this election other than admitting HRC was possibly the worst presidential candidate nominated by a major party in living memory. Until they come to grips with that, they're doomed to wander in the wilderness.
Dave,
When you look at local up to executive, which party has the momentum? It's not all about the top.
Maybe Obama was an aberration/delay due to the "historic" nature of his presidency.
R&B, I would love to see some objective analysis of the amount of Berno voters who went with a rich 1 percenter. I really doubt that adds up..even given Trump's trying to appeal to them. "Hey class warfare folks, I'm Donald Trump and I want your vote" Right.
You gotta smart kid there, professor.
Yep, likely helped hand the election to the lesser of two evils.
Taco Bell? For the Munchies? No No No
Original Tommys
Looks stoner-worthy, Howard. But Cali and Nevada are long commutes for a national market.
"Bob R said...
I voted for Johnson. VERY happy to be sand in the gears of this awful, mindless machine."
Sand in the gears? No. You were the tree falling in the forest with no one around.
Shush..I'm selling "don't blame me" bumper stickers.
https://www.ft.com/content/bd74b6de-a9ba-11e6-809d-c9f98a0cf216
"Britain and France on Sunday night snubbed a contentious EU emergency meeting to align the bloc’s approach to Donald Trump’s election, exposing rifts in Europe over the US vote."
-Sorry? Whose votes count?
How can the Libertarian party survive nominating 2 big-government loving, democrat party-sympathizing republicans? Will the pathetic, embarrassing and shameful performances of their candidates bring voters into their rolls? Hahaha- No. See you in 4 years, losers. Can't wait to see what progressive birdbrain you nominate then....
I voted for Johnson and the Democrats I know are already treating me like a leppo.
I am addicted to Tommy's burgers. I have driven 60 miles to get one several times. Now thankfully they are opening stores all over Southern California.
We were spoiled in So Cal. Hardly ever went to the In-n-Out on Ventura with Tommy's on Roscoe and the 405. It is a long day living in Reseda.
Love us! We're the elite 2% who climbs the frickin' mountain, baby.
I don't know why the hell we're lumping Libertarians with Greenies, though.
"Oh those little people in those little parties, I can't tell them apart."
It's so damn sweet voting for Libertarian in this election, at least in my city. In the South people had a cultural reaction to Trump. Even if we agree with everything he says, it's the way he says it that drives us up the wall. Ergo, at least in my world, none of the Trump voters are spiking the football. They're all on the down low, being polite and quiet about how they voted.
If he has a good year or two or three, people might start taking credit for their votes!
And the Democrats are moping around, demoralized and shell-shocked. I like to tease them. "You're not moving to Canada, are you?" Or New Zealand, I heard somebody mention New Zealand. Weird how these white liberals always pick these white places to move to. They never say, "I'm moving to Mexico" or "I'm moving to South Africa."
Anyway, whether or not they are moving is always a great opening line. You can tease them for their failure to move away, and then tease them for their ideal dream place to live.
The vast majority of liberals do not threaten to move away if they lose an election. It's usually celebrities and other idiots. "Boy they will miss me! Maybe I can influence the election by threatening to leave if it goes the wrong way. Let me see how powerful I am."
Vote for Hillary or I go to New Zealand!
Okay, that didn't work. Now I'm going to wear my Unhappy Clothes.
R&B, I would love to see some objective analysis of the amount of Berno voters who went with a rich 1 percenter. - walter
I would bet money, walter, that you don't know more than maybe one Bernie voter. I mean a voter who really believed in Bernie.
@walter, Jill Stein is a physician married to another physician. Bernie Sanders has, what? Three homes? Four? The latest costs $600,000. Any vote anyone cast was going to be for a one percenter.
Johnson got about 3% of the vote and zero electoral votes and that's good?
"Perhaps the Democrats could ask themselves how a party can fly on only one wing -- make that the extreme tip of the left wing."
The Democrats should realize they need to move away from the center and toward the left.
The Democrats should realize they need to move away from the center and toward the left.
Speaking selfishly, I agree completely with Comrade Cookie.
We wouldn't have to deal with a democratic president or Congress for a decade at least!
Johnson got about 3% of the vote and zero electoral votes and that's good?
Yes.
"How should Democrats respond to Gary Johnson and Jill Stein supporters?"
Libertarians - the party of less government, more personal liberty.
Greens - the party of government dictating personal behavior.
For the Democrats - the party of promising everything to everybody, it is business as usual.
Big Mike said...
@walter, Jill Stein is a physician married to another physician. Bernie Sanders has, what? Three homes? Four? The latest costs $600,000. Any vote anyone cast was going to be for a one percenter.
11/14/16, 10:12 AM
I'll say this, I did really think that whatever his commieness, Bernie was poor and honest. How the hell did this lakeside dacha happen?
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