I could have walked down the street and joined what Stein calls "a young crowd of supporters... at the upscale Overture Center for the Arts." But I chose not to. I'm just a little lazy at night. And the World Series was on. And frankly, I don't like seeing famous people. It feels creepy. Like that waiter playing the role of waiter that we were just talking about.
Anyway, speaking of bullying, I should link to Scott Adams's post yesterday calling the Democrats "The Bully Party":
If you have a Trump sign in your lawn, they will steal it.One way to bully is to call the other person the bully. Chelsea could be said to be part of that activity.
If you have a Trump bumper sticker, they will deface your car.
[I]f you speak of Trump at work you could get fired.
On social media, almost every message I get from a Clinton supporter is a bullying type of message. They insult. They try to shame. They label. And obviously they threaten my livelihood.
We know from Project Veritas that Clinton supporters tried to incite violence at Trump rallies. The media downplays it.
We also know Clinton’s side hired paid trolls to bully online. You don’t hear much about that....
Joe Biden said he wanted to take Trump behind the bleachers and beat him up. No one on Clinton’s side disavowed that call to violence because, I assume, they consider it justified hyperbole.
Team Clinton has succeeded in perpetuating one of the greatest evils I have seen in my lifetime. Her side has branded Trump supporters (40%+ of voters) as Nazis, sexists, homophobes, racists, and a few other fighting words. Their argument is built on confirmation bias and persuasion....
And as far as that "almost daily diet of hate speech" Chelsea spoke of — where does it come from? Does it come from Trump or does it come from Trump's opponents who are paraphrasing him? I think most of the noise comes from the paraphrasers, and the question is whether they are: 1. Interpreting Trump accurately and getting us to see dog-whistling for what it really is, or 2. Distorting what Trump says into something it's not that they want you to think it is.
Whatever the paraphrasers are doing, they are relying on 2 important beliefs: 1. Listeners hate the idea that the paraphrasers are making so clear, and 2. The hard-core daily beating rained down on Trump will never turn him into a sympathetic character.
That first belief might not be true or not true enough. At some point, on some level, listeners might feel, instead of aversion to Trump, fears and needs that send them into Trump's arms. And that second belief is dangerous: These ham-handed attacks are so crude and exaggerated that they exceed the crudeness usually attributed to Trump. We're told to hate crude brutality by people who look increasingly crude and brutal.
UPDATE: Just this morning a man with a pickax and a sledgehammer, wrecked the Donald Trump star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.
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139 comments:
I think Chelsea speaking in liberal ground zero Madison, WI to an audience of a few hundred tells us a great deal about the enthusiasm gap right there.
"We're told to hate crude brutality by people who look increasingly crude and brutal."
Increasingly - for over 40 years. Some people are slow learners.
Picture please? I know it's not hard to get "a few hundred people" to a rally, just in workers already on her payroll, and in a couple of school teachers giving attendance excuse and extra credit for any kids that attend.
But I would still bet it was closer to 50.
This is the best explanation.
Amazingly, it's from Michael Moore !
Chelsea Clinton is a hyper entitled clueless moron, Bless Her Heart. (In the South, you can say the most awful--and accurate--things about people, so long as you follow it with 'Bless Her (or His) Heart."
I can't write what I should say about Horndog Bill Clinton, Bless His Heart, on a family rated blog.
As for Chelsea's mom, some people are so morally corrupt that they are ugly clear to the bone. (No Bless Her Heart here--can't bring myself to say it.)
No arguments with your analysis.
Chelsea's parents are not nice people. The more I know about Chelsea the more I am convinced she is following their lead. Sad.
Chelsea is guilty of "projection". 'Nuff said.
Chelsea is the sole heir to two rich old people both of whom have serious health issues.She will get a reward.
I can only applaud her for surviving so well in that family. Her tell all book would be a doozy.
"These ham-handed attacks are so crude and exaggerated that they exceed the crudeness usually attributed to Trump. We're told to hate crude brutality by people who look increasingly crude and brutal.""Increasingly"? And so what? They are in charge, they control the MSM, their candidate will win in a landslide, and no one is held accountable for anything in any way, except for some tut-tutting from Madison WI, where even the one slightly right-of-left law prof, in her cruel neutrality, took a mildly offensive remark by Trump as a "rape joke" and non-hamhandedly sophisticatedly advance-misses O.
The village failed bigly.
I think I know what Bob Hoover and Chuck Yeager did if bullied as a child, I'm pretty sure they took up for themselves. I don't remember ever being bullied as a child but I got into a lot of schoolyards fights and what I remember most about those fights is the nausea and vomiting that usually resulted.
Feelings of persecution, either real or imagined, are powerful motivators. It's probably always been this way, but these days most people vote based on emotion rather than carefully reasoned thinking. The Democrat party understands feelings far better than the GoP. Trump probably understands feelings better than most Republicans do, but his particular brand of emotional appeal seems to resonate with a narrower base than the Democrats at this point.
You'll excuse me but this is bullshit.
The media has convinced everyone that trump is racist and sexist and a Nazi. This has lead to real life bullying of my son's on their gymnastics team. Calling me and my boys racist and sexist.
The Democrats are always projecting. They blame Sarah Palin for violence because of rhetoric and their rhetoric is a hundred times worse.
#NeverTrump here. All the social pressure to denounce him almost has me wanting to vote for him. Trump has said many ridiculous things from day one, but my lefty friends still feel the need to distort and make him out to be worse than he really is. It really irritates me. They think of me as their token "reasonable conservative" friend, so of course they expect me to do the reasonable thing and vote against Donald Hitler.
Clinton supporters are definitely the bullies. If they aren't trying to shut down a rally or spark violent conflict, they're haranguing their friends and neighbors about the dangers and evils of not supporting Hillary. If you do not support Hillary, you're part of the alt right, you're a dupe of Russia, you're in league with white supremacists, you're anti-women, you're xenophobic, etc. It's disgusting.
That's the left. They're your people, Althouse, not ours. There's only one way to make it stop.
Vote for Trump. Vote for Portman. Vote against every Democrat on the ballot.
Audience of "a few hundred" with no photo. But Trust the press!! They said a "few hundred"
Anyone seen a picture of the event?
Picture.
"#NeverTrump here. All the social pressure to denounce him almost has me wanting to vote for him. Trump has said many ridiculous things from day one, but my lefty friends still feel the need to distort and make him out to be worse than he really is. It really irritates me. They think of me as their token "reasonable conservative" friend, so of course they expect me to do the reasonable thing and vote against Donald Hitler."
It's funny, I feel much the same way. I'm never more inclined to vote for Trump than when I see the histrionics of the anti-Trump side (or really anything focusing on Hillary) but then I see some of the more inane Trumpist arguments and it's back against him. Keeping a low profile and avoiding saying anything too far over the line seems the winning strategy this year.
I'd really like to see how they tie any bullying to Trump. If a kid is a bully, he's a bully. He's not taking cues from Trump rallies.
Althouse, don't you have a tag about the use of children for political purposes? Chelsea may not have had a child say these things, but she was clearly making a "think of the children" type appeal.
Actually - people are getting bullied because Chelsea's mom hires people to be agitators and bullies at Trump rallies.
Liberals are corrupt.
The worst bullying in US schools is making millions of kids read Toni Morrison.
That is a crime against humanity.
When will the media ask Chelsea how she feels about her father's sexual deviancy?
That picture has 100, tops.
AA
Having seen the young $15 million dollar woman, you made a wise choice in watching the World Series. Smart.
Chelsea is pathetic. And I'm being charitable.
It's just a ploy for Hillary butt sniffers pretend they are victims, rather than bullies themselves.
Calling Trump "Hitler" is to be psychotic.
I don't remember ever being bullied as a child but I got into a lot of schoolyards fights
I remember being bullied a couple of times by older kids. One used to chase me until one day he caught me, Like a cornered rat, I turned to fight and he took off. It was a revelation.
2. Distorting what Trump says into something it's not that they want you to think it is.
I think there is a lot of (2) going on, and more than there was last year or earlier this year. I think the media have realised that -- from their perspective -- airing a buch of Trump speeches and rallies was a huge mistake. To their ears, it all sounded like monocle-poppingly mad rubbish. Deport people for violating immigration laws?! The very idea!!
But a lot of their viewers nodded their heads and thought, "Hmm. That makes sense." And even when they went back afterwards, people paid attention to Trump and what he was saying, rather than their analysis and characterisation (like the motormouth disclaimer at the end of an advert, or a shamefaced small-print correction buried deep in a newspaper where no one will see it).
So now they have stepped it up.
"Chelsea said her mother's foreign policy would be superior and more engaged than Trump's, and encouraged all voters to consider which candidate's positions best reflected their values."
Hillary failed at State. Up to 500k dead in Syria and millions displaced. Why would Hillary be more effective a second time in foreign policy?
PROJECTION
It's classic.
"I think Chelsea speaking in liberal ground zero Madison, WI to an audience of a few hundred tells us a great deal about the enthusiasm gap right there."
And there was already a Law School women-related event at the location, so she was going where presumably interested people were already assembling.
I got email yesterday in the early afternoon: "We have learned that Chelsea Clinton is scheduled to speak at the Overture Center this evening, at the same time we’re holding our Women in Law event at the Madison Museum of Contemporary Art. Due to traffic and parking concerns, we have made arrangements for a shuttle bus to and from the Museum for our faculty, staff and students. The shuttle will pick up our Law School guests at by the Humanities building at the intersection of Lathrop Drive and Park Street at 4:45 p.m. and again at 5:30 p.m. A red sign and dedicated person will be posted at the pick-up location. The shuttle will return to the Law School at 6:15 p.m. and 7 p.m."
Brando Hillary is so terrible a candidate, it's scarcely conceivable that the Democrats would run a criminal for president but they have and for that I would have voted for any of the Republicans that ran in the primaries including JEB! if only because they weren't known criminals. I'm voting for Trump for the same reason but with the added frisson the he is a yuuge FU to the Democrats for even having the indecency to run a grifter, criminal and traitor for president. Trump The Bitch! Lock her up!
BDNYC:
"my lefty friends...think of me as their token "reasonable conservative" friend, so of course they expect me to do the reasonable thing and vote against Donald Hitler."
Right there with you. And it bugs me when they ask, "You're not voting for *Trump*, are you?" I'm tempted to say, If I were, I'd have no more to be ashamed of than you do, and arguably less.
Brando:
"then I see some of the more inane Trumpist arguments and it's back against him."
For me it's reading reluctant but now committed Trump supporters bash conservatives who still won't support him, ranting about preening and sanctimony, hinting that it's our fault if Hillary gets elected (here I think of Stephen Falken: My fault?"), and ominously hinting there will be consequences.
Hillary has effectively turned Putin into a modern day Hitler. It blows me away to hear my lefty friends talk like bloodthirsty neocons about Putin and the threat he poses to us. They've become so casual about the use of American military force in Libya, Syria and elsewhere, even if it means a violent confrontation with Russia -- although they still stand by their totally principled opposition to the imperialist Iraq War.
After 8 years of war under Obama, Hillary is pushing the American left further toward bellicosity and a paranoid distrust of major foreign powers. How did this happen? I thought the Republicans were the stupid fightin' yokels.
We are all far more likely to remember incidences of being bullied than those rare occurrences when we were the bullies.......In the press, we have read accounts of how Bill Clinton and Obama stuck up for the weaker kids and how Romney and Jeb Bush bullied the weaker ones. What horseshit. I've read of Bill Clinton's encounter with Paula Jones. That's the very definition of bullying.
Oh, so that's the new catch phrase? "The Trump effect"?
How many times is that going to appear in the NYT, WaPo, HuffPo, everywhere over the next week?
"The Trump effect". I know people who think it's what happens when you put a Trump sign in your lawn and it gets torn up. There are people who think it means the hell with Bill Kristol and the GOP.
How about "the Hillary affect"? Open the mouth really wide, open your eyes like they're watermelons, wave your arms like a chicken, shriek like a banshee.
I was surprised to discover that the Left absolutely does not believe that anything that they do is oppressive. From their POV, by forcing people to follow the dictates of political correctness, they are saving the victims of bullies from oppression. Your freedom is another person's slavery. It's all arbitrary, so the most powerful group can never be oppressive because it can define 'oppression' however it likes.
I think the movement against bullying has run its course. The term is meaningless at this point.
I don't like the idea of how they're trying to marginalize white working class men. We're not flywheels. We're the pistons. If white working class men become as resentful and resented as some other groups, the country is screwed.
Hillary Clinton, in one of the debates, made the same claim about Trump and school bullying. No "fact-finder" ever will evaluate this claim.
And now look what Trump made this man do.
"Just this morning a man with a pickax and a sledgehammer, wrecked the Donald Trump star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame."
The left is going to be really sad when we treat them like they treat us.
It's going after the women's vote. Strike a blow for niceness.
"For me it's reading reluctant but now committed Trump supporters bash conservatives who still won't support him, ranting about preening and sanctimony, hinting that it's our fault if Hillary gets elected (here I think of Stephen Falken: My fault?"), and ominously hinting there will be consequences."
Yeah sometimes I see that and I wonder if they're Mobys trying to get us solidified against Trump--as if for us to say "well I don't want to be in THAT group".
" if only because they weren't known criminals. I'm voting for Trump for the same reason but with the added frisson the he is a yuuge FU to the Democrats for even having the indecency to run a grifter, criminal and traitor for president. Trump The Bitch! Lock her up! "
The look on Bill's face would be a plus--he knows he egged Trump on to run back when he thought it would just give JEB! a thorn in the side for a few months. Imagine then his old golf buddy beating his wife, after all the times she defended Bill? To be a fly on that wall...
Where we went wrong, as a country, was forcing kids to go to school.
We were doing just fine before we had the police rounding them up and putting them in reformatory prisons.
Merl Haggard said he began his prison life by skipping school, and being put in meaner and meaner prisons.
It was all he could do not to become just another beaten man.
Bully's in school wouldn't be a problem if they were on a farm pulling radishes or picking apples.
School is overrated, and a scheme by Socialists to keep the Gulags full.
Rose Wilder Lane railed against public schools, and she lost the battle. People like Andrew Carnegie used to ride his bike as a kid to a wealthy home, where the owner let the kids borrow books. He made his own education.
It seems we have a bunch of "conservatives" who refuse to vote against Hillary. Poor souls. Trump is just too much of a cross to bear.
When I deployed I did far worse things for the country than vote for trump. There are dead people and worse in two countries so you can sit there and sniff your own farts. If you can't even vote to stop Hillary becoming president you are worthless and might as well just not be here.
Hillary failed at State.
Yeah....but she was a success for the Clinton Foundation. She made a mess, and got paid!!
"Projection" is when you subconsciously attribute your own motivation to others:
"Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.". (Wikipedia)
What do you call it when you purposefully accuse others of what you are doing in order to obfuscate?
Achilles,
You are a Scott Adams-esque master of persuasion. Truly, you have shamed me into voting Trump now.
I can't express my candid opinion of either prospective C-in-C without running afoul of UCMJ. That's my bar for them to clear.
Bullying is inherent in the human race and related species. See Jane Goodall on bonobo chimpanzees.
We'll get to find out just how far is too far in terms of the infinite-minutes hatefest.
If the "mean girls" OODA loop spins out of control and Trump ends up as a sympathetic figure (you laugh!) on election day, there will be much ruing to accompany the vote count on that day.
Seriously, somebody's about to get violent about this if they keep it up.
We're told to hate crude brutality by people who look increasingly crude and brutal.
Hammer, meet nail.
I think multiple viewings of A Christmas Story kept me from being bullied much as a child.
Chelsea? How is that natural journolist doing?
"If you have a Trump sign in your lawn, they will steal it.
If you have a Trump bumper sticker, they will deface your car.
[I]f you speak of Trump at work you could get fired."
If you attend a Trump rally, you could be beaten. We have pictures of this...at least one of a bloodies woman in a Trump shirt. Can you imagine if there was the same of a woman in an H shirt?
The more insidious bullying the left engages in is the way so many will bring up contentious issues in a manner that makes clear they think everyone knows any take other than theirs is cretinous. I have clients that really test my ability to let it roll off my back. There's no way to engage them constructively when they set it up as such. It's inappropriate...and an abuse of power in the situation. Privilege!
I'm voting for Donald Trump because it has become apparent that the rule of law no longer applies to the elite political class in Washington DC. Hillary Clinton has made a mockery of the law and her campaign continues that mockery right now. It is also apparent the legal system has become so corrupt, that only the voters can restore a sense of law to our political class, by refusing to allow Hillary and the corruption around her to the highest office in the land.
Donald Trump is a flawed man, but whatever his flaws are, they do not rise to the corruption we already see from Hillary Clinton.
A few days ago, Donald Trump released a Contract with the American Voter-- a series of "action" pledges he is making, reminiscent of the Republican Contract with America. These policy initiatives will begin the process of restoring integrity to the political system and economic sanity to the United States, but this has largely been ignored by the media.
I was excited when I read the pledges, but the one that stood out, that re-affirmed why I am supporting Trump says: "...Additionally, on the first day, I will take the following five actions to restore security and the constitutional rule of law:
FIRST, cancel every unconstitutional executive action, memorandum and order issued by President Obama
SECOND, begin the process of selecting a replacement for Justice Scalia from one of the 20 judges on my list, who will uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States..."
When I saw his pledge to select a Supreme Court nominee from "on of the 20 judges on my list", it gave me confidence he will keep his word. Nominating judges "who will uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States" as opposed to judges who rule by the whim of the prevailing societal wind, is one of many critical policy initiatives on his list, but it is central to social conservatives like myself.
It's been a non-stop barrage of negative imagry surrounding the Trump campaign. The barrage, led by the MSM, working in concert with the Clinton campaign, released an ugly audio tape where Donald makes very crude jokes/innuendo about the power the rich enjoy.
This was followed up by hordes of women accusing him of the very things he joked about. I don't need to repeat them, you've heard and seen them, in high definition no less-- it was almost overwhelming, as if it had all been scripted in a "B" movie plot.
But just as many presumed the innocence of Bill Clinton when sexual accusations were hurled at him, the American voter decided it did not disqualify him from the presidency.
But if Donald Trump is found guilty of sexual crimes while President, I expect the Congress to do their duty and impeach him. That's how the system works.
Dems mostly bully like women bully, since it's the female party. Rep. bully like men. Different styles, but bullying nonetheless.
Blogger JPS said...
Achilles,
You are a Scott Adams-esque master of persuasion. Truly, you have shamed me into voting Trump now.
I can't express my candid opinion of either prospective C-in-C without running afoul of UCMJ. That's my bar for them to clear.
This is it in a nutshell right here.
On the high road I will point out that if trump violates UCMJ he will get impeached. Branches of government will reappear as if by magic when he is elected. On the other hand Hillary is the end of the rule of law and the republic. You know congress can't wait to roll over for Hillary.
On the low road you know trump is better than Hillary but you can't even bring yourself to admit that. You hang on the acceptance of others and put your needs for acceptance above the republic. Such selfishness is boring and common these days.
Blogger ndspinelli said...
"Dems mostly bully like women bully, since it's the female party. Rep. bully like men. Different styles, but bullying nonetheless."
Absolute garbage.
I say again leftists are going to cry when we start treating you like you have been treating us.
So Democrats like Chelsea Clinton are saying something very close to, "all Trump supporters are bullies." And Trump supporter Scott Adams is saying something very close to, "all Trump opponents are bullies."
Am I supposed to find a winner in ay of this?
The Left is doing what they have always done: destroy. They cannot help themselves. Typically here in the US they hide behind lies and deceptive speech, projecting their character and behavior onto their opponents. With Trump, they've been unleashed this year. In the media, on campuses, and all around the country, Leftists are doing what Leftists do. Totalitarians at heart, they seem to be unable to control themselves any longer. Chelsea is an imbecile. Anyone looking to her for an overview of Good & Bad needs to think real hard about what they're doing.
Bill & Hillary are evil, manipulative people. She's the spawn of the evil. Nice touch.
Oh...I have to get back to work now. Gotta help pay for some ACA subsidies.
Blogger Chuck said...
So Democrats like Chelsea Clinton are saying something very close to, "all Trump supporters are bullies." And Trump supporter Scott Adams is saying something very close to, "all Trump opponents are bullies."
Am I supposed to find a winner in ay of this?
If you used your critical thinking skills you would look at what has actually been happening and realize that Chelsea is performing classic projection and that her accusations are complete BS.
But you have always been a Hillary shill so you are just acting stupid like always.
"an almost daily diet of hate speech" coming from Trump.
We'll focus on this week alone. In 4 days, what hate speech has Trump said? It's "almost daily", so she should have at least one example.
Her tell all book would be a doozy.
Going with her history, it will be boring as all hell and a massive disappointment.
Anyone seen a picture of the event?
Picture looked like more than 200. Don't know exactly how many, but that'd qualify as hundreds.
How many were awake or not bored out of their mind? I'd say, "less than 10".
I think Scott Adams has gone off his meds again.
So Democrats like Chelsea Clinton are saying something very close to, "all Trump supporters are bullies." And Trump supporter Scott Adams is saying something very close to, "all Trump opponents are bullies."
Am I supposed to find a winner in ay of this?
Scott Adddams can point to examples.
Chelsea Clinton cannot.
I think that Trump, himself, and his campaign is being given little to no credit for a masterful strategy. Over at Neoneocon.com I have long proposed that Trump has been campaigning against the media as much as, if not more so, than against Hillary Clinton. In doing so, he has tacitly made himself a "victim" of media attacks. The more vicious and over-the-top a media story about Trump is, the more it confirms his charge of media bias and the less effect it has (as Bob Wright has also wondered).
Now, with the WikiLeaks news drops of Podesta's e-mails, media collusion and bias is confirmed so that the media attacks become synonomous with Clintonian attacks. Now, they're ganging up on him so-to-speak, and the media pundits wonder why the attacks don't stick.
I have also posited that regardless of "fitness" to be president or bonafide conservativism, none of the other 16 candidates could have withstood the savage and coordinated fusillades that the Dem-MSM complex has launched this election cycle. There's no doubt that Trump has given them plenty of ammo, but IMO attacks against any Republican this year would have been just as vicious with Hillary Clinton's ascendency hanging in the balance; need we forget that Romney "gave a woman cancer"?
Achilles,
See, your high road comes close to convincing me. But if I suggest that that's the way to win people over who are already on your side (dammit), you'll interpret that as my need for personalized attention and flattery.
As for your low road,
"You hang on the acceptance of others and put your needs for acceptance above the republic."
Sorry, but no. If you knew me at all - if you knew what I walked away from and who I told to go to hell in order to serve this republic, as I salute you for doing, you'd know how funny I find it.
And really, if I craved the acceptance of others in my personal life, I'd declare myself a liberal, vote Hillary and be done with it. If I craved the acceptance of others on the blogs I frequent, I'd support Trump, and right there I no longer have to be accused of sniffing my own farts.
I wouldn't walk down the street to see Chelsea Clinton either. She's an exceedingly dull girl.
Will this all backfire on the Hillary campaign? And is there really a Monster Vote as the NYT wrote about: https://goo.gl/1Coljt I guess we will find out by Nov. 9. Imagine the consternation in elite circles if Hillary loses to Trump! I don't expect that to happen however. Instead, rare honest reporters like Jordan Chariton will have field day: https://goo.gl/oINrNZ
Maybe Laslo is right about Hillary and vodka. Below from Wikileaks emails.
"Hillary Clinton campaign aides had a frantic email exchange in August 2015 over who should call the candidate to "sober her up some" at around 4:30 in the afternoon.
According to documents published by WikiLeaks, Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta emailed communications aide Jennifer Palmieri with a question at around 2:00 p.m. "Should I call her and talk this through or better to leave with you?" Podesta wrote. "I'm worried she’ll get on with Cheryl [Mills] and we'll end up in a bad place."
Palmieri wrote back more than two hours later with a response: "I think you should call her and sober her up some." "
damikesc said...
So Democrats like Chelsea Clinton are saying something very close to, "all Trump supporters are bullies." And Trump supporter Scott Adams is saying something very close to, "all Trump opponents are bullies."
Am I supposed to find a winner in a[n]y of this?
Scott Adddams can point to examples.
Chelsea Clinton cannot.
Scott Adams can point to a few random, unrepresentative and even hysterical examples. Exactly like Chelsea Clinton's side does.
Except Veritas kinda sorta suggests not so "random" under the Dem hood.
If Trump wins.... I hope he goes into hiding. Because it's a dead certainty the hysteria will be so intense that there will be numerous assassination attempts on him and Pence. Because if both of them die, then the Electors will be left with just... Hillary on the ballot, unless Mcmullen wins Utah.
Isn't that the simplest solution for the "trump problem?" Obama drones both Trump and Pence on Thanksgiving and then Hillary wins by default, right, because they have to vote for her? Of course no Democrat elector would be faithless either. So Hillary will be the next president. And no one in the Senate would convict Obama, and the House, full of Paul Ryan and company, probably wouldn't even impeach.
What's the downside here? Violent revolution from the American people? Hardly.
--Vance
JPS--Achilles sort of went and proved my point. Just when some Trump supporters (e.g., Cubanbob above) make the solid case for Trump (that he's the last chance to stop Hillary, and Trump's own faults will do less damage) someone like Achilles comes along and thinks insulting anyone who has a problem with Trump will do anything other than make us wonder if he's got some personal demons to work out.
Some of the biggest issues conservatives have with Trump is that he is the least conservative candidate the GOP nominated in decades, that he cannot be trusted as far as you can throw him, and that he displays an amazing lack of understanding of conservative ideas or policy in general--not to mention a lot of "shot in the foot" stuff through the campaign that is hard to explain away. Those problems are real, and while a lot of conservatives are reluctantly voting for him, a lot simply aren't and in a close race those aren't votes you can kiss off. A good counter to those problems might be that while Trump cannot be trusted, it's possible he will find it in his interest to play ball with conservatives, and at least do no harm, while Hillary will be an active opponent of what conservatives want. It may not convince everyone, but it's really the best argument Trump has for them.
But hey, let's just act like everyone's ridiculous for having a problem with this candidate, and deny reality, and when that doesn't work, make ad hominem attacks. Works for the Left, right?
" If white working class men become as resentful and resented as some other groups, the country is screwed."
It's not just "working class." I know it is considered racist to point out objective matters like IQ and history.
This country was founded and has existed under a system established by British laws and immigrants who were white.
There are other races, such as Frederick Douglass, who adopted the rules of education, literacy and hard work.
Those rules are being abandoned. Europe was influenced by other political systems. The French have never recovered from the Revolution. The Germans from the Prussian period of rule. The Italians from the Borgias, including the Borgia Popes.
Slavery was an evil system but we were the second nation to outlaw it and it is still practiced in Africa and in Muslim countries.
600,000 men died, including two of my great uncles, to free the slaves.
In fact, if Obama came out, after a month of "We just elected Hitler!!!!" hysteria by the media, and said "I did it. I'm not proud I had to have them killed, but I simply could not put Hitler in charge of America. I take the blame, and let's all support Hillary by enacting everything she wants!" then people like Ann would swoon about how decisive and brave Obama was in adverting disaster for America. The Media and half of the GOP would give him a standing ovation.
The whole "subverting the will of the voters" would be conveniently ignored. And that's the end of America as a Republic, isn't it? To the sound of thunderous applause as Obama makes sure Hillary will be the next president. Or maybe he'll not put Hillary in, just say that Hillary can't serve because she didn't win, and Trump had to be eliminated, so he, Obama, will graciously remain our President.... for a time, of course. An indefinite date, at some point in the future. He promises he'll quit... eventually! And we can trust him, just like we all kept our health plans!
It's a toss up as to which one of those scenarios he'd do, in my opinion.
--Vance
he displays an amazing lack of understanding of conservative ideas or policy in general-
A lot of people claim to know what he thinks.
We all know what Hillary thinks because we have Wikileaks.
"in a close race those aren't votes you can kiss off."
Right. And you are adept at pointing out the better arguments. Does the existence of lesser arguments sway you more?
It's a binary choice...a lesser of two evils scenario. To those who think they can keep their hands clean. Is your vote so precious you are willing to throw it away?
Chuck said... [hush][hide comment]
damikesc said...
So Democrats like Chelsea Clinton are saying something very close to, "all Trump supporters are bullies." And Trump supporter Scott Adams is saying something very close to, "all Trump opponents are bullies."
Am I supposed to find a winner in a[n]y of this?
Scott Adddams can point to examples.
Chelsea Clinton cannot.
Scott Adams can point to a few random, unrepresentative and even hysterical examples. Exactly like Chelsea Clinton's side does.
Put aa Trump bumper sticker on your wifes car, and hillary sticker on your car Chuck. Let us know how it goes. While you are at it, put a Trump sign in your Mom's front yard.
Now, your immediate reaction to reading those suggestions is to create an excuse not to, wasn't it?
As I recall from the 90's, it was written that Chelsea Clinton was trained by her parents to tolerate negative comments about them. I recall a newspaper column quoting one of the Clinton's talking about how, when Chelsea was very young, they sat her down and proceeded to subject her to a litany of accusations and charges about them, her parents. The stated purpose was to toughen her up and prepare her for being bullied by others. If so, I have every sympathy for what Chelsea has had to tolerate over the years and can certainly understand projection on her part. You see the results of this training in videos of where she is asked about her father. She just sits there and takes it without anger or distress. Dare I say this? Perhaps it would have been helpful for Trump to have some of this training. If so, he might not rise to the bait when he is attacked verbally.
Hate speech or bullying. Well, let's see...he;s a grown up who thinks it's OK IN PUBLIC to make fun of his opponents and his opponents wives looks, has made fun disabled people, regularly calls people he disagress with losers, offers to pay the legal fees of fans who punch protestors, threatens people with lawsuits to try to shut them up...just for starters. Not exactly behavior most parents want to see in their own children, but go ahead and say evwee-one is being so mean to wittle Donald. Please.
I note that whenever Hillary is attacked, she just smiles. She has clearly been toughened up, just like her daughter. Whether it was deliberate or a defense mechanism that developed organically, we'll likely never know. But when she starts that false smile, you can see that the attack is hitting home. Still, she comes across better than Donald, whose thin skin is always on display. In that sense, Donald Duck is a good mascot. When Donald Trump starts frothing at the mouth from the unfairness he perceives regarding attacks on his masculinity and relations with women, one can see traces of Donald Duck's thin skin, as well.
Bullying? Haven't the Clintons made their careers by successfully intimidating and antagonizing people weaker than they are?
Obama promises to leave the country if Trump is elected (according to Politico.)
What the hell are you waiting for? Vote Trump.
"Perhaps it would have been helpful for Trump to have some of this training. If so, he might not rise to the bait when he is attacked verbally."
His mentality is to never let anything he perceives as a slight against him go unavenged. Likewise, anyone he perceives as being "nice" to him gets niceness in return. A good example was during the GOP primary debates, Trump did a 180 on Cruz after Cruz criticized some statement of Trump's. He went from praising Cruz to vilifying him as "the most dishonest person [he] ever met" in practically the same sentence. Sort of hilarious to watch.
The obvious problem with this is it suggests he can be easily manipulated. Clinton did this in the debates--keep baiting Trump with a dig at a sore spot (e.g., him being a poor businessman) and setting him sputtering. By the third debate I was thinking "surely by now Conway would have advised him to stay on track" but either she never gave that advice, or he couldn't take it.
We all want a fighter, but there's a difference between one who lands punches and one who swings wildly like a drunk.
Random, unrepresentative, and hysterical events, Chuckles? You've lost what little brains you had left. That's a bizarre statement even for you.
Hillary says she's moving to prison if Trump is elected.
Chelsea is a Clinton. The rotten apple does not fall far from the diseased tree.
Trump stands his ground and responds in kind to bullies. A cause for concern if other Americans adopt his character.
What a contrast. All the talk about hate in the post and all the talk about love in the comments.
Need your blanky readering?
"Blogger CatherineM said...
Hate speech or bullying. Well, let's see."
Blank page. Who pays you, Catherine ?
"Blogger Fabi said...
Need your blanky readering?"
Another blank page.,
a moment of clarity from our hostess. so glad i was here to witness it!
The #NeverTrump folks are pressing one of my bingo buttons and pressing it very hard. A big difference between liberals and conservatives is that the former will take what they can get in an election and expect to get the rest later. Hard core conservatives will hem and haw and balance feathers on scales to decide whether the most conservative candidate in the race is sufficiently pure for them. You'd think after losing every battle in the never-ending culture war they'd learn something or another. They have not.
I think the case against Trump is based as much on lies, half-truths, and unproven innuendo as anything else. I'd be a lot happier if he'd grow a thicker skin and learn to think before he speaks. But there is no question in my mind that Trump can and does learn; Hillary Clinton's "At this point what difference does it make!" is the comment of someone who does not learn from her mistakes.
So I'm voting for Mr. Trump. I'll take what I can get and try for more later. And I'll vote for Barbara Comstock regardless of what her stance is regarding Donald Trump, for essentially the same reason. She's a politician; if he's in the White House she'll figure out how to cope. If I was in one of the states where there is a senatorial election, I'd vote for the more conservative candidate: Ayotte, Rubio (Rubio!?!), Portman, Kirk, ... I'll take what I can get.
@Michael K, point of information. The number 600,000 is at best approximate and it includes 240,000 who died fighting for the Confederacy. It does not include civilian casualties, such as the Virginians in the Shenandoah who may have starved after Sheridan burned their barns and killed their livestock or the free Blacks captured by Lee's forces during their two forays into Northern states and sent south into slavery.
"I think the case against Trump is based as much on lies, half-truths, and unproven innuendo as anything else. I'd be a lot happier if he'd grow a thicker skin and learn to think before he speaks. But there is no question in my mind that Trump can and does learn; Hillary Clinton's "At this point what difference does it make!" is the comment of someone who does not learn from her mistakes."
I think the case against him is more than that, but this is as good an argument in his favor as any. One of my biggest problems with Hillary is while she has made a lot of blunders in her years in public office, she has not shown she has learned from any of them and has the same bad instincts.
@Brando, you're welcome.
Remember when various Southern Dem Governors in the 60s, would stand in the schoolyard entrance, blocking innocent black folks from attending school?
Well, 50 years later, liberal students of Color at UC Berkeley are doing the exact same thing, because ....Racism.
Remind me again who the modern- era Bullies are?
Yes, readering. If only we could be stronger together. That would be so lovely. Kumbaya....
I have to vote Trump. Down with bullies!
Has anybody besides me noticed how little we are seeing of Hillary Clinton right now? She is still alive, isn't she?
Looking at the photo of the Clinton event, I would say between 100-200. A new definition of "few" seems to have arisen.
In addition, if you notice, most Clinton/Kaine events take place in locations where you already have a "few hundred" people present even without the event. I think they have deliberately steered clear of any location that could hold a 1000+ people, especially after the photos from some of the events from the primary season where Clinton was speaking in front of about a hundred people and in front of hundreds of empty seats. They aren't stupid enough now to schedule events in arenas.
Big Mike said...
Has anybody besides me noticed how little we are seeing of Hillary Clinton right now? She is still alive, isn't she?
Alive? Or merely . . . undead?
Has anybody besides me noticed how little we are seeing of Hillary Clinton right now? She is still alive, isn't she?
Hillary's poll numbers dive whenever she's the focus of attention. Obsessing about everything Trump says gives the MSM an excuse to ignore her.
Blogger Big Mike said...
@Michael K, point of information. The number 600,000 is at best approximate and it includes 240,000 who died fighting for the Confederacy. It does not include civilian casualties, such as the Virginians in the Shenandoah who may have starved after Sheridan burned their barns and killed their livestock or the free Blacks captured by Lee's forces during their two forays into Northern states and sent south into slavery.
All good points. I agree the Confederate dead were part of the struggle, if on the other side, although few of them owned slaves.
The cattle Sheridan captured were mostly driven north to feed his troops. The Shenandoah Valley was enemy territory and Early had used it as a pathway to attack DC as late as 1864. It was the last remaining source of food for the Army of Northern Virginia.
The free blacks captured by the Confederates were not always returned to slavery. I'm reading Grant's Memoirs again after 50 years.
When Forrest attacked and took Fort Pillow, in 1864, the black soldiers he found were massacred. Hundreds of them were killed and thrown into the Tennessee River.
re: HRC learning from her mistakes...
What mistakes? She's made $100M+ using her and Bill's political connections, was elected senator from NY, and then became SoS. She's now got a very good chance of being elected President. All of her accusers and scandals haven't derailed her success, so she's obviously doing things right.
I don't think she would agree she's made mistakes.
The other shoe drops. First, the campaign is about "wimmins" and their silent suffering. Now comes the "chillin" and their silent suffering.
Won't you please keep the needs of wimmin and chillin when you vote?
Scott Adams can point to a few random, unrepresentative and even hysterical examples. Exactly like Chelsea Clinton's side does.
RNC buildings get firebombed. Trump signs stolen. Trump supporters assaulted.
Yup, NOTHING to see here.
You're kidding, right?
"It's just a few bad apples. They were MOSTLY peaceful."
and these are the same assholes who are demanding safe spaces!
The Clintonian two step has always accused their opponents of whatever bad thing they are doing. And Chelsea certainly has Mom's permission to use it.
First step is that accusation confuses the listeners who believe it on first impression. Then when reports come out that they Clintons are really doing it, that can be refuted or ignored on confusion grounds.
Then if totally strong proof comes out, the Second step is easy. Why you know everybody does that.
The "Trump Effect" is apparently what the Clintons and their ilk are calling their attacks upon anyone and anything suggesting support for Trump.
evwee-one is being so mean to wittle Donald
The loathsome byproduct of Bill and Hillary Clinton.
"Alive? Or merely . . . undead?"
To ask is to answer.
Joe Biden had plenty of chances to fight, back in the late '60's/early '70's.
Instead, he took five deferments.
What a phony. What an asshole.
They pay people to incite violence. They pay people to troll the internet. They pay people to ride buses to vote illegally. Who claims they don't pay people to accuse Trump of groping them?
The free blacks captured by the Confederates were not always returned to slavery. I'm reading Grant's Memoirs again after 50 years.
When Forrest attacked and took Fort Pillow, in 1864, the black soldiers he found were massacred. Hundreds of them were killed and thrown into the Tennessee River.
You (of all people!) are falling victim to what Michael Crichton calls the Murray Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect (link didn't work. I don't know why. Easy enough to search).
You KNOW that historians lie, media lie and victors, more than any others, lie.
Here is a speech Bedford Forrest gave to a black audience:
************
Forrest's speech to the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association July 5, 1875.
A convention and BBQ was held by the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association at the fairgrounds of Memphis, five miles east of the city. An invitation to speak was conveyed to General Nathan Bedford Forrest, one of the city's most prominent citizens, and one of the foremost cavalry commanders in the late War Between the States. This was the first invitation granted to a white man to speak at this gathering. The invitation's purpose, one of the leaders said, was to extend peace, joy, and union, and following a brief welcoming address a Miss Lou Lewis, daughter of an officer of the Pole-Bearers, brought forward flowers and assurances that she conveyed them as a token of good will. After Miss Lewis handed him the flowers, General Forrest responded with a short speech that, in the contemporary pages of the Memphis Appeal, evinces Forrest's racial open-mindedness that seemed to have been growing in him.
Ladies and Gentlemen I accept the flowers as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the southern states. I accept it more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one on God's earth who loves the ladies I believe it is myself. ( Immense applause and laughter.) I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to elevate every man to depress none. (Applause.) I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going. I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand. (Prolonged applause.)
Whereupon N. B. Forrest again thanked Miss Lewis for the bouquet and then gave her a kiss on the cheek. Such a kiss was unheard of in the society of those days, in 1875, but it showed a token of respect and friendship between the general and the black community and did much to promote harmony among the citizens of Memphis.
*******************
I was leary the first time I read this and so I searched. I found the copy of the Memphis Appeal and this was verbatim.
Yancey Ward said...
In addition, if you notice, most Clinton/Kaine events take place in locations where you already have a "few hundred" people present even without the event.
There is a reason for the shortage of Hillary lawn signs, and you have just described why.
I wonder if the true "trump effect" is the millions of voters who plan to vote for trump but not saying so to friends associates, spouses etc, to avoid putting up with all this bullshit? They get to pull the curtain behind them November 8th and shove a giant red hot poker up the asses of the establishment and the other cry-bullies who don't believe we should do anything but shut up and do as we are told.
Gk1,I don't know how all the various polls are conducted, but if any are done via phone..I would bet many more on the right side of aisle would decline answering.
If Scott Adams twitter feed is any indication, there shoudl be a whole lot of twitter accounts suspended. They are all bullying personal attacks.
Wouldn't you think the polling would be perfected or much more reliable by now, like the weather? :-P
Eddie Willers, 3:14:
Isn't it possible that the atrocity in 1864 and this fine gesture in 1875 both happened? That a unit under his command, flush with the rage of battle, could commit a terrible war crime; and that a decade after his defeat, after he'd been active in the Klan and then turned away from them, and rather near his death, he could have decided that reconciliation was the way forward?
"Isn't it possible that..."
Ha, dumbass it's not even possible you could write that.
Possibility is beyond you.
Funny, isn't it, how almost all of the bad, violent behavior is on one side of the ledger? Funny how the voter fraud is all on the side of one party. You don't find dead people voting Republican, or those who vote in more than one state. You don't find Republicans stealing Democrat signs from other people's yards. You don't find Republicans opposing voter ID because it makes voter fraud harder to commit. It's like the Democrats ideas and candidates are so inferior that the only way that they can perpetrate them on the American people is by cheating.
Funny, isn't it?
442 Olds Baby.
Take their knickers off while/fir makin' 'em scoff.
Work within the system to make it better>
Beyond you.
Not Althouse though.
I consider this blog a sortly Navajo code.
In Wisconsin deadly force can be used to stop such attacks at home or in your vehicle. Two to the chest and one to the head.
The Independent (UK):
[Wisconsin] Woman mistakes town meeting for Donald Trump rally and smears 30 cars with smooth peanut butter in protest
"A woman was arrested on Monday after allegedly smearing peanut butter on 30 cars parked outside what she believed was a pro-Donald Trump rally.
Christina Ferguson was arrested in Amherst Junction, Wisconsin after interrupting what turned out to be a meeting of a local environmental organisation, Tomorrow River Conservation Club."
"...“Peanut buttering is better than firebombing, and Trump plans on firebombing everybody in other countries,” Ms Ferguson reportedly said.
However, when she realised she had mistakenly identified the meeting as a Trump rally, she was remorseful saying she was “just fed up about the entire election.”
The complaint claimed Ms Ferguson smelt strongly of alcohol and her blood alcohol level was 0.218, more than twice the legal limit for driving.
“Fortunately it wasn’t chunky peanut butter, so vehicles didn’t get scratched,” said Chief Deputy Dan Kontos.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/woman-town-meeting-donald-trump-rally-smears-30-cars-smooth-peanut-butter-protest-a7369991.html
Hagar: "Bullying is inherent in the human race and related species. See Jane Goodall on bonobo chimpanzees."
Yes, but didn't her poster campaign amongst the bonobos solve that problem?
"I found the copy of the Memphis Appeal and this was verbatim."
Oh, I don't doubt it. Forrest was the best cavalry general in the war and The Confederates probably did not use his ability enough.
JEB Stuart was over rated and left Lee blind before Gettysburg by riding off on his own.
Still, the account I was reading was not by a "historian" but by Grant who knew what had happened. The river was described as red with blood.
Forrest was a ferocious fighter and self educated but became a millionaire before the war,
Sherman, who declined to charge him after the war, said "War is Hell." He might have had that in mind.
In the war, the South had L:Lee, Joe Johnston and Forrest as outstanding generals. Longstreet was close.
The North had Sherman and Grant. Thomas was great in defense but had the "slows" as Lincoln said. Several outstanding Union generals were killed.
Biden and Trump behind the bleachers? My money would be on Trump in a fair fight, but I'd have to take someone else's word on who won, because the sight of those two old souls slugging it out would turn me off my food for a week.
Most likely though, Biden would cheat and win anyway.
Hmm..a sitting veep expressing such violent thoughts about a candidate.
That's a big effin' deal..
And journalists will apparently get droned and assassinated due to the "Hillary Effect."
But she don't give a shit about that.
"In the war, the South had L:Lee, Joe Johnston and Forrest as outstanding generals. Longstreet was close."
How about Stonewall Jackson who was a talented General and very aggressive.
I have a lefty friend who's a radio producer in Canada. He told me the other day he's working on a project about "American Facism" - I have to assume it's going to be all about Trump and his supporters with nary a word about the American left's kristalnacht-style violence against the right, the left's wish for ever-tighter integration of politics and big business, not to mention that Hillary's "stronger together" slogan is a LITERAL invocation of the fasces from which fascism draws its name.
I thought it was Albert Sidney Johnston who was the outstanding General but who unfortunately for the south got killed at Shiloh.
re that timeless series, the last episode was quite free of sjw cant, they go back to 1944, to stop the villain from handing a nuke to von braun, and they run into ian fleming,
#NeverTrump conservatives are conservatives who don't understand game theory.
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