Dem. Sen. Claire McCaskill says HRC should smile a lot during debate. When I said that, I was called a sexist. https://t.co/U9T5GnZJe1— Brit Hume (@brithume) September 16, 2016
It depends on how you say it. And in this case, it depends on whether we think you're actually trying to help or just criticizing her — and whether criticizing you seems like a way to stir up energy in support of the woman.
But in general, it seems that people expect more sociability and openness from a woman and are more likely to feel uneasy it she keeps a stern or grim face. The relaxed female face gets the jocose description "resting bitch face." So serious women can have trouble being serious as people express what might only be a simple desire to overcome their own uneasiness but might also be a more virulent urge to exclude women from serious enterprises. So it's naive to become another one of those people who tell women to smile.
But smiling is still a great facial expression that most people ought to want to know how to use to their advantage, and some advice to smile is good and not always sexist. Other people are absurdly responsive to smiling.
Here's my experience. I do a lot of walking around town, an average of 4 miles a day (according to an app in my iPhone), and I'm nearly always listening to audiobooks, and I tend to listen to serious things. There was the summer I listened to "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" and all the many months it took to get through the 4 volumes of Robert A. Caro's biography of LBJ.
I don't look at my face when I'm walking, but I assume I look fairly grim when listening to that sort of thing. But sometimes I put iTunes with a shuffled playlist of songs I'm pretty sure I'm going to like to hear if they pop up — The Monkees "I Wanna Be Free," Herman's Hermits "Dandy," Elvis Costello "Watching the Detectives," Cher "All I Really Wanna Do," etc. etc. Again, I'm not looking at my face. But I know I must be smiling, because suddenly, on my usual walk, everyone I pass looks at me and smiles, like they're seeing an old friend.
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Brit Hume back in with a full-time show; and Greta out.
Win, win.
Smiling is a great way to get a reaction from strangers. But Hillary doesn't think anyone temporarily living in the Noth American Provence is worthy of her going to that much effort. That's is weak old Bill's job. Hillary will focus on Muslim Oil Sheiks and Mexican peasants
If anyone has resting bitch face, it's Brit Hume.
"Brit Hume back in with a full-time show; and Greta out."
Yeah, I immediately set the show to record as a series on the DVR. Never set it for Greta.
By the way, Brit acts like he doesn't even want to have a show. He's just helping Fox News out and he's leaving after the election.
There are smiles and there are smiles. Personally, I hate the little superior smirk that Claire McCaskill shows when she is on TV. Evan Bayh and Chris van Hollen do the same thing, and it is obvious (to me, at least) that none of them believe a word they are saying, but are just feeding pap to the unwashed.
Hillary is a natural nasty piece of work.
You make me feel like a natural woman.
Now, Billy Jeff, he knows how to smile. But watch his eyes, they are like Greg Norman's, never smiling, but coldly calculating.
I notice you're using Twitter a lot now. Interesting medium, isn't it? Great insight into the Press.
The Girl at Starbucks That Hates You:
My female boss keeps telling me I need to smile more. I'm sorry, but I smile when I am authentically happy. Taking an order for a Caramel Frappucino No Whip from someone who can't remove their iPhone from their ear does not make me authentically happy. Sorry.
When I do smile then the men all think that means I must want to fuck them: dudes, don't make the Barista Fantasy so obvious on your faces, it's sad. Like I'm going to take you to the bathroom RIGHT NOW and have you bang me over the sink with my pants at my ankles: I CLEAN that restroom, and I assure you the things I have seen do NOT make it a sexy place for me.
Then there are the older men who smile at me because I must make them think of their daughter: I will smile at them even if I'm not feeling it, just because, you know?
Then the next guy with the faux hipster style smiles at me, expecting me to smile at him, too. Dude, I HATE hipsters, and you're not even a real hipster: real hipsters would never be caught dead in a Starbucks because: corporate.
So excuse me if I don't smile at you: it's nothing personal, because there is nothing personal between us: you are a customer, and I'm just trying to pat my share of the rent.
Yeah, yeah: No Whip.
I am Laslo.
Probably not good advice for Hillary, because the effect would be creepy. She's not by nature a gregarious, smiling type, and she's not by nature someone who can pull off pretending to be a gregarious, smiling type.
" Brit acts like he doesn't even want to have a show."
O'Reilly last night showed a clip from GodfatherIII Illustrating how much Brit wants to be back as a regular.
I liked Greta and Brit is a NeverTrumper so no wonder chuck likes him.
I wonder if anyone ever told Margaret Thatcher to smile? Of course, she had real accomplishments.
Kristine Schactke (is that her name), a spokeswoman for the Hillary campaign, has that always on fake smile kindergarten teacher voice and I cannot stand it.
I was once told by a boss not to smile so much and that felt kind of sexist to me, so who knows?
People love Obama's smile. Is that sexist?
By all means, paste on that iconic politician perpetual smile, and constantly be on the edge of laughing, even a cackling guffaw. Go ahead, confirm us once again how fake and phony and dishonest you are Hillary.
NOBODY wants a dour person around. Everybody should smile more. Men just tend to smile more than women. Hillary looks like a chore to spend any time with. Trump seems like a chore also, but one you will end up having fun with after 10 or so minutes.
The Girl at Starbucks That Hates You:
So I tried smiling through my shift today, and now my female boss has come up with a new phrase to describe me: 'smiling bitch face.'
"What the hell does that mean?" I said.
She says "It is so obvious that you are smiling only because you have to: it looks bitchy."
Great. Now I am being judged on the Quality of my Smiling. For fucking minimum wage.
Look, bitch: I'm on my period. Bleeding from my vagina while making endless lattes does not make me feel like smiling.
Then she says "Your smiling is making customers uncomfortable."
I gotta admit: if smiling at the customers makes them uncomfortable then I might do this smiling thing more often. Because.
Yeah, yeah: No Whip.
I am Laslo.
Brit Hume tweeted: "Dem. Sen. Claire McCaskill says HRC should smile a lot during debate. When I said that, I was called a sexist."
To which Althouse replies "It depends on how you say it. And in this case, it depends on whether we think you're actually trying to help or just criticizing her — and whether criticizing you seems like a way to stir up energy in support of the woman."
Double standard much, Professor?
The context in which Hume made his remarks was, I think, a piece of friendly advice. When Hume said "She has a habit, when speaking, of breaking into kind of a sharp, lecturing tone. It makes you feel a little bit like you’ve been called into the principal’s office to be read the riot act." Is that your own tone when you lecture your students, Professor? Because they (1) are used to being lectured in classes, and (2) have little choice in the matter. The rest of us, who are sick and tired and fed up with eight plus years of Barack Obama wagging his finger at us on TV and hectoring us, have little interest in having yet another left wing ideologue lecturing and hectoring us.
Judging by a few comments above, Brit Hume pisses off all the right people!
Remember when Hillary was advised to LOL, back in 2008? It was bizarre.
I smile a lot, and I say Hello to strangers.
But you don't have to smile. If you have inner joy or inner happiness, it radiates out of you.
If anyone has resting bitch face, it's Brit Hume
Brit Hume has a face like a tired old basset hound.
i hike up the peak in hong kong most days, about a 900 metre climb chichis pretty good for a bloke who has had an aortic valve replacement and last week a pacemaker, and who is a jam donut or two over his playing weight,
and i don't give a F what my mouth looks like
Let a smile be your umbrella.
I think that's a condom reference.
In the immortal words of Admiral Ackbar, "It's a trap!!"
Hillary should not smile during the upcoming debate. HRC has only two smiles available, predatorily gleeful and l-dopa moronic, neither will do her any good.
Klavan says 90% of the joy in life comes from the difference between men and woman.
How does sexist fit in then.
When people are happy, enjoying themselves, it reflects in their eyes. It reflects in their posture. The spring in their walk. All the subliminal body language that we, as human, have been evolved to recognize is shown without our even intending to convey it. Happy. Sad. Good humour. Depressed. Angry. Afraid. Dangerous. Mentally ill.
The human is geared to respond to those subliminal cues so that when you meet a happy person you respond back in that same way. Recognizing and responding to body language is a survival skill.
Happy people will spread happiness to others just by being around each other. The same goes for confident persons. This is probably part of Trump's subliminal appeal. Confidence and a good sense of humour. People gravitate to this in private life and sense it in public figures.
"It depends on how you say it. And in this case, it depends on whether we think you're actually trying to help or just criticizing her." True: prog political ethics is situational. It depends. In this case, it depends in a way that fits the corollary to the Althouse Law on the Presentation of Female Difference. If used to women's advantage, the otherwise sexist use of difference is good; if not, it isn't.
Nobody ever complained about Queen Victoria's resting bitch face, and she would not be amused if they did. Maybe a resting bitch face is something that English women pull off better than Americans. Judi Dench and Helen Mirren have built their careers on a resting bitch face. Perhaps Hillary should fake an English accent. It couldn't possibly be phonier than her smile, and it might lead people to be more tolerant of her resting bitch face
Plenty of male candidates have been hurt because voters didn't like their demeanor and facial expressions. McCain came across as too much of a cranky old man, and was often called "angry." Romney and Gore were called stiff and inauthentic. I've seen Romney's facial expressions criticized for seeming insincere. Dole came off as bitter, grim, and unlikable. Conversely, the successful candidates are generally ones with pleasant, optimistic demeanors: Obama, Clinton, Reagan, etc. All of them and many other male candidates have had their demeanor and facial expressions mocked on Saturday Night Live. The double standard is that anytime Hillary Clinton's demeanor is criticized, she gets showered with sympathy and the critic is denounced as a misogynist.
"Is it sexist to tell a woman to smile?"
Is it sexist to tell a woman anything?
Really.
Is there anything a man can say to a woman that cannot be willfully misconstrued?
I am Laslo.
At a sort of meta level, smiling is a sign of or signaling submission and non-violence. Women smile more than men, because they want to turn off male violence. But that also means that a lot of female smiles are fake. Guys smile mostly either in enjoyment or in submission. We mostly can tell the smiles apart, but are still less likely to hit someone if we know their smile is fake, than if they aren't smiling. Smiling is the ape, and maybe primate, equivalent to dogs rolling onto their back and exposing their chest to a dominant dog.
Crooked Hillary's problem is that she is not a natural smiler. She is naturally dour, and not the least bit submissive. Which means that in most cases, her smiles are fake. Women fake smile a lot for social reasons, as do subordinate males. Normal males do not, because it mostly shows submission. Her problem is that most of us are sophisticated enough reading faces and body language to recognize fake smiles. We do it day in and day out. So, we will recognize her smile for what it is. And a cerebral lawyer such as she is likely completely incapable of acting well enough to make most of us think anything except that it is fake.
So, what is the job that she is running for? President of the United States, still probably, even after 8 years of Obama, the most powerful person in the world. Whose job it is to protect us with all the might at their disposal. She is up against an alpha male, who oozes dominance. We are wired to trust and depend on male dominance for security. Who is going to look more Presidential, the alpha male, or the woman signaling submission through smiling? Lady Thatcher knew when to smile, which mostly when having a good time. The rest of the time, we remember her steely gaze. Making things worse for Clinton in this election is that Obama has (intentionally?) given away a lot of our national security, by hollowing out our military while it continues to fight overseas, refuses to update our nuclear arsenal, while our enemies update theirs, squandering the victory we had in Iraq, while turning the Middle East into a charnel house disaster. So, Americans are, more than ever, insecure. Which again why being viewed as the submissive in the debates wouldn't help Clinton.
According to the guys at OKCupid, who should know, smiling makes women more attractive, men less attractive. To the opposite sex, of course.
When a man tells a woman to smile, he is telling her to make herself more attractive -- to him. Although it may be intended quite innocently, this is insulting on about six different levels.
I'm not sure what to think about one woman telling another to smile. I suppose it depends.
In Europe, cashiers do not smile at customers. When an American chain store opened stores in Europe and insisted that the (female) cashiers smile at customers, they ran into problems. Big problems.
Bruce Hayden said...
"So, what is the job that she is running for? President of the United States, still probably, even after 8 years of Obama, the most powerful person in the world. Whose job it is to protect us with all the might at their disposal."
I don't think the Americans who elected Barack Obama, and intend to elect Hillary Clinton, feel themselves in need of protection. What they want and expect from the government is free stuff.
They are mostly women, by the way. High-status women receive free stuff, lots of it, which proves they are high-status. High-status men give free stuff, lots of it, which proves they are high-status. So women feel OK about wanting free stuff, in a way that men don't.
I walk every morning, and I smile, and I say things to strangers. Like "Good morning!" as we pass.
But when it's someone who is plugged into their phone, listening to music or to great books, they don't hear me, they don't even look at me.
Then I get to say, even louder, "Good morning, asshole!", as we pass.
It's fun and even though it's just talking to myself, it makes me smile when I walk. Thanks Ann!
Brit Hume also can't call President Obama a Nig**r; Larry Wilmore can.
@JAC: "The double standard is that anytime Hillary Clinton's demeanor is criticized, she gets showered with sympathy and the critic is denounced as a misogynist." Exactly. And all the showering and denouncing indicates how much the left dominates public discourse.
More than most, Hillary's face reflects what she is. Oddly, that maybe her at her most honest, truthy self.
Smiling doesn't look good on her. It doesn't come naturally.
With Hillary, it's more a "rictus" than a "smile. Kinda like her "laugh".
Whether from a Starbucks Barista or from a Politician, we, as consumers, are expecting a smile.
It is a condition of our culture.
Our self-awareness of this also makes us suspicious of smiles.
We crave Authenticity, even in the smiles we receive.
Nothing quite gets under the skin like an insincere smile.
Kinda one of the points in my The Girl at Starbucks That Hates You posts.
Then there is the smile of The Cat That Ate The Canary. Maybe I'll play with that a bit later.
I am Laslo.
People expect more sociability from a woman? Can't reconcile that with all that "kinda guy I'd like to have a beer with" blather that is used to measure every male candidate since Prohibition ended.
Michael K @9:21:
I liked Greta and Brit is a NeverTrumper so no wonder chuck likes him..
Hume has always been very close to the Bushes, which seems to be the source of much NeverTrumpism. Them, their minions, their sycophants.
Next time you're out and about and that Herman's Hermit song shuffles in, stop wherever you are and emulate the Dandy dancing at 1:31
Entranced gals, one encounters Peter's turntable..
Blogger Hagar said...There are smiles and there are smiles. Personally, I hate the little superior smirk that Claire McCaskill shows..
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Ah..but none better than that expression plastered across the face of the mockumentary named "Josh Earnest".
If he ever had a real job in his life, I'm guessing used car salesman.
"No..no Carfax available on this beauty. But I assure you this vehicle has your best interests in mind."
Plenty of male candidates have been hurt because voters didn't like their demeanor and facial expressions. McCain came across as too much of a cranky old man, and was often called "angry." Romney and Gore were called stiff and inauthentic. I've seen Romney's facial expressions criticized for seeming insincere. Dole came off as bitter, grim, and unlikable. Conversely, the successful candidates are generally ones with pleasant, optimistic demeanors: Obama, Clinton, Reagan, etc. All of them and many other male candidates have had their demeanor and facial expressions mocked on Saturday Night Live. The double standard is that anytime Hillary Clinton's demeanor is criticized, she gets showered with sympathy and the critic is denounced as a misogynist.
This is right. I was discussing Trump on Fallon last night with my spouse and I said, "I think he is going to win. Trump appeared effortlessly normal. Romney always seemed to be trying too hard. Trump is like Obama or Clinton. He's disarmingly charming."
You know who else can't pull off authentic? Ted Cruz.
"Hume has always been very close to the Bushes,"
I like Hume if he stays away for his Trump antipathy.
Hillary is now running an ad in California with clips of Republicans attacking Trump. Why give ammo to the enemy? Hillary sees Republicans,not Iran or Russia, as the enemy.
I was very suspicious of Trump a year ago and did not begin to think he would win until this summer. Now, I think he will probably win and it could be a blowout.
The next topic is what will NeverTrumpers do if it is a blowout in the reverse of what they seem to be hoping for?
From, not" for his..."
Blogger Laslo Spatula said...The Girl at Starbucks That Hates You: My female boss keeps telling me I need to smile more.
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That one took me back to my big break back in high school to work the newly arrived McDonald's. I was so proud to have "made it" what with the cattle call of an application process visited upon our small school.
But because of the huge demand vs supply of these jobs, management ran a very tight ship and had high demands that are clearly out of vogue currently. A male's hair could not touch the collar, and any reprimand for perceived subpar performance would typically be accmopanied by a reminder that there was a huge stack of applicants sitting in the manager's "office" which was barely larger than the chair and the tiny formica counter that was the "desk".
I still remember "Ms. D" pulling me away from bagging fries to ask me if was unhappy about something since I wasn't smiling adequately while bagging. Later I woudl find my niche as the higher paid "Porter" who was entrusted with keys to the building so I could come in at 3am to mop the floors, spray out the heavy long doormats, change out the fryer grease, and..my most hated bit..clean the disgusting bathrooms (learning the women's was always worse). Regional manager with a speech impediment so thick I could barely understand him left a penny directly behind one of the toilets to see if I would remove it. When he returned to find it, I was in for a long, difficult (to understand) dress down for such an offense. I left on "leave of absence" terms. I am tempted to return wearing the paper hat I saved to say "I'm back!"
I often listen to Mozart's Requiem while walking. Parts of it do make me smile. Especially the Lacrymosa, ironically. But just because it's so beautiful.
But to the point. Yes, women are often told to smile while men are not--sexist. Personally, although I smile a lot, I hate being told to when I don't feel like it.
blogger walter said: "Ah..but none better than that expression plastered across the face of the mockumentary named "Josh Earnest".
If he ever had a real job in his life, I'm guessing used car salesman.
"No..no Carfax available on this beauty. But I assure you this vehicle has your best interests in mind."
He learned from the best - that would be Jay Carney. If there ever was a world class smirker, it would be Carney. Or is it spelled carnie?
It's not a man/woman thing. Smiling is like a handshake. There is a way to do it right and way to do it wrong. Kennedy smiled warmly. Nixon frowned. I would suggest Hillary is Nixon on steroids.
One has to wonder why anyone likes Hillary? What does she represent to these rabid reporters? It's almost like they are heroin addicts and Trump is asking them to go into recovery and Hillary is pimping out more heroin to them. Ever talk to an addict? A lot of similarities between an addict and a Clinton supporter.
Nevertrumpers are painting themselves into a corner. A little embarrassing that they want to be part of the GoP.
But I know I must be smiling, because suddenly, on my usual walk, everyone I pass looks at me and smiles, like they're seeing an old friend.
I just check to make sure my pants are zipped up.
If she's a miserable person who contributes to bringing down the mood of the place with her sullen, teenage near-snarl then I don't see how it can be. What do women have against individual happiness?
I don't see a problem with it when you're sitting or resting. It's natural that those times could be reflective. But walking around, amidst all the humanity around you - if not necessarily among some cliquish herd? That somehow warrants an expression of walking misery?
Fuck that noise. I'd be just as freaked out and raging against the machine of a zombie apocalypse. Expressionless robo-people aren't entitled to extra respect.
Yes, women are often told to smile while men are not--sexist.
Not during adolescence and immediately thereafter. I had women tons of times tell me to lighten up and apparently enjoy the mindless frivolity of young adult drunken abandon and the flings of sexual temporality. You know, during the stage when they think it's their job to mold men to their will and to serve their purpose of making everything around them a mindless 24/7 party. (I assume the latter works to the purpose of the former).
Which, I guess, if that worked so well, wouldn't gear them toward becoming such mindless resting bitch-faces later in life.
Personally, although I smile a lot, I hate being told to when I don't feel like it.
I used to also. But that's because I thought people didn't care.
Maybe they do and maybe they don't. Maybe the walking miserable don't want them to care. Maybe being untouchably and unchangeably miserable gives them a sense of power. No one else can make me less moody!
It depends where you're from. Out in the middle of nowhere, no need for happiness. In a city, stop bringing things down.
Hillary should not smile during the upcoming debate. HRC has only two smiles available, predatorily gleeful and l-dopa moronic, neither will do her any good.
I agree. I actually feel she comes closer to her own true self when she doesn't have a happy expression on her face. If she liked herself better and enjoyed being alone in her thoughts she wouldn't have this pathological need for power over people. Or the attendant secrecy.
Plenty of male candidates have been hurt because voters didn't like their demeanor and facial expressions. McCain came across as too much of a cranky old man, and was often called "angry." Romney and Gore were called stiff and inauthentic. I've seen Romney's facial expressions criticized for seeming insincere. Dole came off as bitter, grim, and unlikable. Conversely, the successful candidates are generally ones with pleasant, optimistic demeanors: Obama, Clinton, Reagan, etc. All of them and many other male candidates have had their demeanor and facial expressions mocked on Saturday Night Live. The double standard is that anytime Hillary Clinton's demeanor is criticized, she gets showered with sympathy and the critic is denounced as a misogynist.
Exactly. Hear, hear.
It's almost like the idea of sexism was invented in order to lower the standards for women.
@Dr K - we are probably getting the same ad here in NW MT. My observation yesterday is that it is very pre-convention, when they were trying to "other" Trump by portraying him as crazy, Willing to say anything. I don't think that it works today, with six weeks or so of public sanity under his belt. Their problem today, with the publicly sane Trump, is that the Crooked Hillary camp is probably not going to win, without positive reasons to vote for her, and not just negative reasons not to vote for him. For one thing, there appears to be a big enthusiasm gap these days, and the voters merely convinced not to vote for him, but not given good reasons to vote for her, are much more likely to just not vote. A pax on both their houses sort of thing.
The I-dopa moronic smile, like after the convention balloon drop, or after being asked too many questions too quickly at a press conference, appears to be the result of (or can be attributed to) anti-Parkinson's medication.
As Sydney wrote, smiling doesn't come naturally to some people, they don't know how to smile. I'm one of those. I laugh a lot, much more than my wife who has a very engaging smile, but I can never manage a smile when I'm in a photograph. It looks artificial and insincere, like I'm trying too hard. In my entire adult life, I can count on two hands the number of photos in which I'm smiling.
The flip side are people who always take great pictures, like my partner (ok, I have some pictures of her unaware that aren't that great, and occasionally use them for blackmail). She claims it comes from her modeling days, where she would strike a pose - except the thing memorable about those poses was her smile. Somehow, it doesn't look fake, even when it is. Still drives her daughter and her cousin crazy, because they can't do it.
What's this about an L-dopa smile?
Blogger rhhardin said...
Let a smile be your umbrella.
But don't get a mouthful of rain - Joey Reynolds
Any old Buffalonians here?
John Henry
Blogger Bruce Hayden said...
So, what is the job that she is running for? President of the United States, still probably, even after 8 years of Obama, the most powerful person in the world. Whose job it is to protect us with all the might at their disposal.
Wrong, though commonly believed. The president's job is to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. It is the only thing the president promises to do at swearing in.
It is the Constitution that protects us and if that goes by the board, there is nothing anyone can do for us.
Not picking on you Bruce. Just being a bit pedantic as I think the distinction is important.
John Henry
She does have a nice laugh to go with her smile, though. Hopefully we will see some of this in the debate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmIRYvJQeHM
John Henry
Horse walks into the bar.
The bartender asks, "Why the long face?"
The horse replies, "I'm working on my Britt Hume impression".
JAORE said...The bartender asks, "Why the long face?"
The horse replies, "I'm working on my Britt Hume impression".
John Kerry has trademark on that joke. " I own the long horse face bit.."
mockturtle said...But to the point. Yes, women are often told to smile while men are not--sexist. Personally, although I smile a lot, I hate being told to when I don't feel like it.
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Meh..as does everyone. Do have any semblance of controlled base line to your broad (!) assertion?
(and does it have to do with the job position?)
It's just so damn HARD to smile and conceal the fangs simultaneously.
You ever see photos of Hillary smiling? Most of them I've seen are pretty scary. They take her usual "Krazy Eye Killa" look and add an extra heapin' helpin' of Lunatic Bitch.
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