Althouse: "You've got to be taught before it's too late/Before you are six or seven or eight..."

July 21, 2016

"You've got to be taught before it's too late/Before you are six or seven or eight..."

(There's a backstory to why I turned up that 2013 video today, but I'm leaving it out.)

37 comments:

Rocketeer said...: California currciulum?; 7/21/16, 9:32 AM
Ann Althouse said...: The backstory is related to the presidential election and watching the convention.; 7/21/16, 9:37 AM
Etienne said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/21/16, 9:43 AM
Sebastian said...: Prog journalists talking over actual speakers, orgasming on mini-scandals, framing the mad GOP for the faithful: the audience has to be carefully taught that the GOP in general and Trump in particular are crazy and dangerous. MSM MO for more than a generation now. Of course, I'm sorry to say, Trump gives them plenty to work with, but still.; 7/21/16, 9:43 AM
Big Mike said...: What Sebastian said. From the capital 'P' to the final period.; 7/21/16, 9:47 AM
CJinPA said...: Pretty. Not true, but a pretty song.

As for the backstory riddle...Every modern GOP convention is portrayed as factory of hate. But I suspect there's more to the song choice than that.; 7/21/16, 9:51 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "As for the backstory riddle...Every modern GOP convention is portrayed as factory of hate."

You are guessing the backstory almost exactly the opposite of what I'm talking about.; 7/21/16, 9:58 AM
Ann Althouse said...: The convention is not directed at children.; 7/21/16, 9:58 AM
Carol said...: It's more likely now that people learn to hate as adults, from experience.; 7/21/16, 10:02 AM
Unknown said...: Mandy was awesome in 'The Princess Bride'
i don't suppose it has to do with Fencing both Left Handed and Right Handed.
Although South Pacific bandied about the 'J' word, this song presented a 1950s mea culpa for it and tied up the premise of the musical in a bow.
I have to bring up that a North Miami Beach cop shot an unarmed black social worker with his hands up. WTF is going on. The black guy remembered 'the talk', but he got shot anyway. The song didn't help him.
The convention is just words. Next week also.; 7/21/16, 10:03 AM
Anonymous said...: Anyone who think's you have to be "taught" to hate is clueless.

Hating those "different" from you is the natural state of humanity.

It's why sports teams have fans.; 7/21/16, 10:11 AM
Eric the Fruit Bat said...: Teaching the hate isn't necessarily sufficient, I'm pretty sure.

I think the idea is to inculcate a system of belief that promotes self-reinforcement, the object being to preclude extinction of the conditioned response.

The gift that keeps on giving.; 7/21/16, 10:17 AM
Big Mike said...: You are guessing the backstory almost exactly the opposite of what I'm talking about.

Then I think you're the one who has it wrong.; 7/21/16, 10:17 AM
Sydney said...: Anyone who think's you have to be "taught" to hate is clueless.

Not sure about that. I know some people who are carefully teaching their children to hate anyone with a different point of view than theirs. To the point of congratulating the kids for their opinions on Facebook.; 7/21/16, 10:17 AM
Paul said...: Seven: In California, the Right Age to Begin Learning about LGBT History

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/438062/lgbt-history-second-graders-californias-new-education-guidelines; 7/21/16, 10:20 AM
JAORE said...: The media is certainly doing their part.

The AEA should award a trophy.; 7/21/16, 10:24 AM
Big Mike said...: @Althouse, in fact I wonder whether you're the one who has been "carefully taught."; 7/21/16, 10:25 AM
CJinPA said...: You are guessing the backstory almost exactly the opposite of what I'm talking about.

This is about as bad a note a teacher could write in the margin of your book report as I can imagine.

Think CJ, THINK...; 7/21/16, 10:27 AM
Known Unknown said...: Paul got it.; 7/21/16, 10:27 AM
CJinPA said...: We're being taught to hate Cruz?; 7/21/16, 10:28 AM
mockturtle said...: The song from South Pacific has little relevance here.; 7/21/16, 10:29 AM
Fernandinande said...: Hating musicals is innate.; 7/21/16, 10:31 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "Anyone who think's you have to be "taught" to hate is clueless. Hating those "different" from you is the natural state of humanity."

The human teaching that the song refers to is what the children learn from those around them in their family and community. It's a deep learning that structures the developing young mind. It works so well because it therefore seems to be "natural." The word that makes the needed distinctions is: nurture.; 7/21/16, 10:32 AM
Unknown said...: Rene Guyon.; 7/21/16, 10:32 AM
Ann Althouse said...: "Not sure about that. I know some people who are carefully teaching their children to hate anyone with a different point of view than theirs. To the point of congratulating the kids for their opinions on Facebook."

Yes, that is very close to the backstory for this post.; 7/21/16, 10:33 AM
Kai Jones said...: If you're not taught to hate, you are outgrouped for the rest of your life--because most people hate other people, people who are not mostly like them. If the hate you were taught doesn't match the group you are in, at least you can find the group that shares your hate.; 7/21/16, 10:38 AM
victoria said...: Ann, kind of like cheering on people when they injure and kill others.

Nasty

Vicki from Pasadena; 7/21/16, 11:03 AM
Mike (MJB Wolf) said...: You still have "insec" on yesterday's beautiful photography post.; 7/21/16, 11:24 AM
Joe said...: Why do most songs from musicals sound like they are from musicals, not something that could be stand alone.

Mandy Patinkin has a great voice, but he's in pure "musical" mode here and the song isn't very good.; 7/21/16, 1:29 PM
Joe said...: BTW, I didn't get the reference just from the title, so I listened and within seconds knew that this was a song from a musical. (It wasn't as obvious as from a Sondheim musical, but obvious nonetheless.); 7/21/16, 1:31 PM
mockturtle said...: Patinkin used to be really hot. At least in Yentl.; 7/21/16, 3:10 PM
glam1931 said...: This is actually a medley of YOU'VE GOT TO BE CAREFULLY TAUGHT from SOUTH PACIFIC and CHILDREN WILL LISTEN from INTO THE WOODS by Sondheim. Patinkin is very good in musicals, but I find his highly affected style on its own just a little too precious. Try and watch his rendition of OVER THE RAINBOW without projectile vomiting.; 7/21/16, 4:19 PM
The Godfather said...: I love Mandy Patinkin's voice; I saw/heard him in "Evita" on Broadway many years ago. My father used the lyrics of this song when he gave talks in the '50's and '60's encouraging people to overcome their prejudices.

I'm sorry that whoever produced this performance thought it necessary to add a lot of bleeding-heart lyrics to a song that didn't need them -- and they detracted from the message of the real song.

One (at least) commenter above said that in fact prejudice doesn't have to be taught, it's the default position of mankind (my phrasing, not the commenter's). That point, although correct in a sense, misses the message of the song. It's not really about what we should teach our children, but rather how we should all think and behave. We don't have to be prejudiced; prejudice is not a given that we have to accept. I grew up in an era when it was taken for granted that Negroes (or Colored People) were inferior to white people. Most people of my generation have overcome that prejudice (we have, you could argue, developed different prejudices, but that's not the point). I grew up in an era when it was taken for granted that homosexuals were perverts. Most of us have overcome that prejudice.

The message of the song is that we can overcome our prejudices if we try. Perhaps some day those who are prejudiced against people who own guns will overcome that.; 7/21/16, 4:46 PM
Jon Ericson said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/22/16, 1:22 AM
Jon Ericson said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 7/22/16, 1:25 AM
Jon Ericson said...: Yeah, yeah, if your kid has a congenital problem, love 'em like they don't have one.; 7/22/16, 1:37 AM
mikee said...: It isn't the hate that is a problem, it is the failure to follow prescribed social norms for overcoming hate in everyday life that leads to where we are today.

I was raised Catholic, and "hate the sin, love the sinner" seems to me a more reasonable path to follow for social interaction with people of different beliefs, better than Alinskyite tactics of othering and outrage.; 7/22/16, 10:48 AM