"Instead it should be asking, What did Hillary Clinton know and when did she know it?"
That's typical of the highly rated comments at a NYT article, "As Democrats Gather, a Russian Subplot Raises Intrigue." ("An unusual question is capturing the attention of cyberspecialists, Russia experts and Democratic Party leaders in Philadelphia: Is Vladimir V. Putin trying to meddle in the American presidential election?... It may take months, or years, to figure out the motives of those who stole the emails, and more important, whether they were being commanded by Russian authorities, and specifically by Mr. Putin....")
Imagine if Trump's campaign were putting out an equivalent fanciful story about Hillary's connection to a foreign power. As Donald Trump Jr. put it yesterday (appearing on "State of the Union" after Robby Mook, who pushed the Russians-are-coming theory): "If a Republican did that... they would be calling for people... to bring out the electric chair.... And again, if we did that, if the RNC did that, if my father's campaign did that they'd be calling for people to get the electric chair."
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151 comments:
Not that it'll happen, but now would be a good time for the Democratic delegates to stage an open convention and find another candidate. Nothing about this story is good for Clinton:
1) More hacking, reminding people of her own non-secure e-mails which may have affected national security.
2) Evidence that the DNC was heavily biased towards her at a time when she needs the Sanders contingent to come aboard.
3) Now actually behind Trump in the polls, after all of Trump's flailing and his team's incompetence--and he still can beat her. (She must thank her husband for getting their friend to jump in the race)
"Imagine if Trump's campaign were putting out an equivalent fanciful story" Good for D Jr. to punch back. But no need to "imagine." MSM regularly go to work on non-fanciful GOP stories.
Trump has put out stories that Barack Obama didn't have a birth certificate, that vaccines cause autism, and that the entire Bush Administration (and most of Congress and the Blair/Labour government of the United Kingdom) all lied to invade Iraq.
Just sayin'.
You don't have to care. And you can care about one side's transgressions but not the other's. If you want. It's a free country.
But you can't be intellectually honest, slamming one side for phony stories and not the other.
...And that "thousands" cheered in New Jersey when the WTC collapsed on 9/11/01... and that General Pershing shot prisoners with bullets dipped in pigs' blood...and that Ted Cruz's father noshed with Oswald...
...and on and on and on and on...
I'll take all of Trump's stories and balance them against the actual truth of Hillary and wonder why you support her, still.
Where is the word "scurrilous" when the press really needs it?
Try to imagine this instead.
Imagine the uproar talk-radio show hosts Laura Ingraham, Alex Jones and Rush Limbaugh would be whipping up now, if Hillary Clinton’s chief campaign manager had been for years a trusted adviser to Ukraine’s Viktor Yanukovych, as Donald Trump's Paul Manafort was.
The Vladimir Putin satrap leveraged his Donbas mobster background to defeat, with Kremlin backing, the pro-democracy Orange Revolution and went on to build a kleptocracy underpinned by Russia’s security services, which is believed to have trained the Ukrainian snipers who slaughtered more than 50 Maidan protesters in 2014.
Imagine, too, that it was the Democrat’s presumptive White House nominee who considered appointing as her running mate a retired three-star general and former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency who last December bizarrely — and certainly ill-advisedly — chose to be a feted guest at a 10th anniversary gala in Moscow for Russia Today, the virulently anti-American Kremlin propaganda outlet and cheerleader for the Crimea land-grab of Crimea and Putin’s bombing of U.S.-supported Syrian rebels.
What on earth would the talk-radio hosts be saying, if another one of Clinton’s main foreign-policy advisers, like Trump's Carter Page, was a onetime consigliere for Gazprom, the vast Kremlin-run natural-gas monopoly that Putin has used as a major tool in geopolitical energy politics in Europe rewarding countries favorably disposed to Moscow like Silvio Berlusconi’s Italy, punishing and threatening obdurate ones?
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/289047-exploring-russian-ties-to-the-men-lurking-behind
Heh - nice try, NYT. The Bernie delegates at the convention hall - booing DWS off the stage - aren't buying the Russian conspiracy talk, sorry.
Where is Joe McCarthy when you really need him?:)
Life long Republican, Chuck.
Wow...Althouse posts an article critical of Democrats, and suddenly chuckles shows up, ignores the bad actions of the democrats, and starts attacking Trump. Who woulda thunk it?
Pretend for a moment that Chuckles really is a lackey of the Republican Establishment. Isn't this the very behavior that created Trump in the first place?
However I still think he's a Moby....
"Imagine if Trump's campaign were putting out an equivalent fanciful story about Hillary's connection to a foreign power."
Hell, Trump tweets stuff like that all the time.
Has the NYT forgotten its own coverage of Clinton? Where's the motive for Russia to prefer a Trump presidency?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html
DID THE RUSSIANS WRITE THE FUCKING EMAILS?
What difference, at this point, does it make who hacked them?
"Emergency! Emergency! Everybody to get from street!" - Unknown
They were more likely leaked by a Sanders supporter than hacked.
Haha, pretty good pushback by Team Hill. What else can they do?
I want to see RNCleaks. Esp up to the point where Reince says fuck it and throws in the towel. Although I'd like to think they're too smart to commit all that to emails. Even my two bit mom and pop software company knew not to do that!
Does Putin tap their phones as well?
How about this question for the DNC Russian hack theorists: If the Russians hacked the DNC computers, what is the likelihood they have hacked the unsecured Clinton server? If so, why wouldn't they actually prefer HRC to win the election?
So now Wasserman-Shultz has to fall on her sword, like she's head of the IT department at the DNC? Oh, she's getting canned not for the security breach, but what it revealed? Sorry, she was doing exactly what she was supposed to be doing, assuring the nomination for her boss, Hillary Clinton.
No different than Susan Rice falling on her sword, so to speak, for going around pushing the video explanation. She was following orders. So what it tarnished her reputation and career.
I see some future appointment for DWS, either in government or the Clinton Foundation. If she really needs the money, I'm sure there is a job waiting for her at Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac.
The leaked emails themselves are bad. Yes they are very bad. Who would've gained by leaking them? Why were the computers that hacked the DNC using the Russian language?
The question they should be asking is "If the Russians hacked into Hillary's email server, how/when will they blackmail her, and what will be the impact of it?"
Why wasn't the RNC hacked? Such simple questions with convoluted answers.
The hacked emails came from the DNC not Clinton's private server. Strange but true.
Blogger tim in vermont said..."They were more likely leaked by a Sanders supporter than hacked"
Sure seems like a possibility.
How can all of this be true--
1. Hillary Clinton is the Most Qualified Candidate ever to run for US President
2.One of the qualifications was her tenure as Secretary of State
3. One of her successes as SoS was her diplomatic reset with Russia
4.Russia is actively interfering against her.
Circle the square for me, Democrats.
Real Republican Chuck fails to remember that his girlfriend Hillary! was the original Birther. Heck of a job, Chuckie!
The #NeverTrumpers had just about burned themselves out by the time of the Republican convention; Ted Cruz was a last gasp.
By contrast, the Bernie Bros are still ascendant - just as proof emerges that Hillary was just as corruptly complicit in unethically sabotaging his campaign as she was in exposing national security secrets and in selling government access for personal profit.
Die hard Bernie supporters now have the choice of voting for Hillary, who actively tried to silence them; not voting, which favors Trump, or voting for Trump. One of their choices favors Hillary, two favor Trump.
Wasserman Schulzis NOT getting canned for the security breach, she IS getting canned for what the emails revealed. I think that's obvious. Who is disputing it?
Its irresponsible and undiplomatic to blame Russia. Typical Hillary incompetence
The entertainment value of this campaign just rose dramatically.
Why wasn't the RNC hacked? Such simple questions with convoluted answers.
It didn't need to be, because the Republican Establishment is trying to sabotage the candidacy of Trump in the open, and isn't lying about it.
Bernie supporters will not vote for Trump. Sanders is strongly in favor of defeating Trump and has said so the last few weeks and will speak tonight telling his supporters to vote for Clinton because it is imperative to defeat Trump. Bernie supporters will take his lead.
Why were the computers that hacked the DNC using the Russian language?
Evidence?
UPDATE: Nate Silver is now calculating a 57.5 percent chance of a Trump victory, up from 10.8 percent one month ago.
бе́лка! (Is meaning "Squirrel!")
Don't understand the aggressive Althouse pushback against reporting on this topic.
Why are the Russian's so invested in who our president is? Why does Russian owned media push Trump?
бе́лка! (Is meaning "Squirrel!")
What about Moose?
Gahrie for the win!
Readering,
I understand why the pushback. Because if it were to be revealed that Trump has a connection to Putin and Putin 'owns' Trump somehow, we Americans could have the Russian's man in our White House. The implications are HUGE.
Fabi said...
Real Republican Chuck fails to remember that his girlfriend Hillary! was the original Birther. Heck of a job, Chuckie!
You mean Hillary Clinton, whose candidacy I oppose? Who I think is a pathetically weak and fundamentally dishonest candidate? Whose handlers I despise and ridicule? Whose platform I revile? Who I will never vote for, and will not recommend anyone else vote for? That "Hillary!"? Who ought to be beaten handily by any decent Republican nominee?
The last time you challenged me on a quote, Fabi -- a fictional quote from me -- you lost. I liked that episode so much I want to do it again.
Give us a quote, in which Hillary Clinton challenged the facts surrounding the birth of Barack Obama. Do it now.
Hmmm. Trump is an ethnic Viking. And the ethnic Vikings are also the White Russians. Putin is a Leningrad boy. Those are the White Russians intentionally starved by Stalin in WWII because the Georgian Slav Stalin did not trust them.
OMG. Trump may make peace with the other military super power. That is what got JFK assassinated.
In Mother Russia, moose squirrels you.
The Bernie supporters I know say they are writing in Bernie, not voting in the Presidential but just my down ticket, not voting at all, or are actively assessing third party.
A blanket "Bernie supporters will take his lead" is crap, unknown. And for Bernie to push it? He may even piss some of them off after this latest revelation. Of his supporters how any self awareness, they'd be asking, "WTF Bernie?"
Even Ted committed political suicide rather than compromise. Although the newest leak about him and the DNC will trash him even more than his convention speech so maybe Ted knew or thought his collusion might come out?
Oh what a tangle web we weave...
Real Republican Chuck comes back to defend his girlfriend Hillary! Quit while you're behind, Chuckles -- it's just not funny anymore. And by the way -- there doesn't have to be an actual quote from Hillary to show that she and her campaign started the movement. Quit being a Hill Shill, precious.
Ugh. *If his supporters *had
Stupid phone.
Assuming it's the same Unknown caterwauling about Republicans: I read the piece indicated and it is pretty much fact free. Very heavy on innuendo and inference. What is commonly called a "hit piece" in the press. Maybe the RNC was hacked. Maybe it wasn't worth it. Maybe we'll some damning evidence later. Who knows?
I googled US/Russian consulting just to see what came up. about people who have been working with the Russians. Probably the best known consulting group working with the dirty Russkis is McKinsey Russia. Then there's the FTI consulting with offices in (gasp) Russia; Fertikola based in Tampa, Deloitte ( a subversive group if ever there was one); and PWC Strategies ( formerly Price Waterhouse/ Booz & Co.) It goes on a bit.
Lots of people can be tied to the Russians or Ukrainians by inference and innuendo. Perhaps that is why the talk-radio people are quiet.
Karen of Texas,
I'm sure I know far more Bernie supporters than you do and Bernie supporters will listen to Bernie and take his lead. Bernie does not want Trump anywhere near the White House and neither do Bernie supporters. So you Karen of full of crap and don't know what you are talking about. I worked for the Bernie campaign, don't tell me what Bernie supporters think.
"UPDATE: Nate Silver is now calculating a 57.5 percent chance of a Trump victory,"
Where? http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/
Ah - that's the "now-cast". But the poll-plus is 58% Clinton. Trump has still moved _way_ up.
http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-07-25/cybersecurity-experts-say-russia-hacked-the-democrats
"Bob Gourley, a former chief technology officer for the Defense Intelligence Agency and now the co-founder and partner Cognitio, a cybersecurity consultancy, told me Sunday that he thinks the Russians did it.
"The software code that I have seen from the hack had all the telltale signs of being Russian, including code re-used from other attacks," Gourley told me. "This is a really big deal. Some people in the community are saying this is the Russians pretending to be a hacker, then giving that information to Julian Assange is all part of an operation." (Assange founded WikiLeaks.)
Gourley is not alone among cybersecurity experts. When the hack of the DNC was first disclosed in June, the security firm Crowdstrike also pointed to the Russians. Crowdstrike investigated the incident for the Democratic party and concluded it was the same actor that penetrated the State Department, White House and Pentagon unclassified systems in 2015. Describing the code used for the penetration in a blog post, Crowdstrike co-founder Dmitri Alperovitch wrote: "Both adversaries engage in extensive political and economic espionage for the benefit of the government of the Russian Federation and are believed to be closely linked to the Russian government’s powerful and highly capable intelligence services.""
I thought so, Fabi. Thank you very little.
Unknown said...
Wasserman Schulzis NOT getting canned for the security breach, she IS getting canned for what the emails revealed. I think that's obvious. Who is disputing it?
I am. She was not canned for what the emails revealed. What the emails revealed was her doing what her employers, the Democratic establishment, wanted her to do.
She got canned for letting that fact become public.
Unknown said...
Bernie supporters will not vote for Trump. Sanders is strongly in favor of defeating Trump and has said so the last few weeks and will speak tonight telling his supporters to vote for Clinton because it is imperative to defeat Trump. Bernie supporters will take his lead.
7/25/16, 9:18 AM"
If the Trumpists were sharp they would be egging the Sanders people to vote for the Green Party as a way to purge the Democrats of the Clintonite corruption.
Go ahead, Unknown of unknown. Defend Bernie getting in bed with that criminal. Spin it however you and your Bernie supporters need to to justify voting for the corruption that is the DNC and Hillary.
And before you get all up in it, I am not an ignorant, red neck, Bible thumping, homophobic, racist, islamaphobe. Did I miss any? Neither am I a Trump fan. But people like you are helping me justify the possibility of voting for His Orangeness. I thought Bernie had more character than that. He afraid of losing his place at the table if he takes Stein up on her invite? Bernie had a revolution building. A movement! I though Bernie supporters were legion - and growing? He should be able to co-opt a huge percentage of Hillary supporters now. And trump haters. He would win, wouldn't he? Does he not believe enough in his message and his supporters? In the American people?
Loser.
Next Press Release from DNC, July 26, 2016
-Philadelphia, PA
Newly released evidence hacked by Guccifer shows that Rafael Cruz really was Lee Harvey Oswald's CIA handler in Dealey Plaza, reports the New York Times!
Err, convention going well.
-RobbieMook
"The software code that I have seen from the hack had all the telltale signs of being Russian, "
So you have to ask, if this was the Russians why did they leave their fingerprints all over it? Why did they want everybody to know it was them?
Mook is correct in this case. Its all about those Trump-led Republican Left Wing Conspirators. We watched Act One and Two last week where Trump deliberately inserted parts of a Moochelle speech into Melania's convention presentation (any publicity is good publicity) followed by the planned leftest trap on the convention floor to crush Ted Cruz's principled stand against endorsing the asshole.
Whoever liberal Donald paid, Putin, Snowden, Mook, Obama or their friends, to leak the anti-Bernie emails is immaterial. He succeeded in turning media attention toward the dark side of the Donks who immediately attacked Debbie Blabbermouth Shultz in direct contrast to the forgiving of Hillary for far-greater misdeeds. Appointing Anti-Sanders Donna Brazile as the new DNC head forced Hill to bring Debbie into her campaign, likely because she knows where the bodies are buried.
Its all downhill from here. Can you say UGG-LEE?
Regarding Bernie Sanders, is he the leader of the people who rallied behind him? Or was he more of an organizing principle? In other words, if he says "Vote for Hillary even though your principles tell you not to," will his voters fall in line and vote Hillary or will they follow their principles over to Jill Stein or maybe even a few of them for Donald Trump?
"For he called me and commanded me,
And by this I knew him.
Then he failed me.
For that I slew him."
exhelodrvr1 said... [hush][hide comment]
The question they should be asking is "If the Russians hacked into Hillary's email server, how/when will they blackmail her, and what will be the impact of it?"
In order for blackmail to work, the victim must be hiding something that they are ashamed of, or a crime. Hillary is beyond embarrassment, and too big to prosecute for anything short of video taped murder. She is blackmail proof.
Why are the Russian's so invested in who our president is? Why does Russian owned media push Trump?
Maybe they'd rather deal with someone more honest than Hillary.
@gadfly you what's really ugly? Look at the picture of Hillary Drudge posted today. Ugly and stupid looking. I'm actually feeling a very small twinge of pity for Hillary.
Not only that, but we already know all about it and just choose to ignore it.
Regarding the Russians, think about what Original Mike commented.
People seem to think that Russians are stupid. They are not stupid. They can even figure out how to translate "сброс" into English.
Everybody looks at this as a yuuuuge mistake for the Democrats.
Maybe.
But if Hillary wins (I sincerely hope not), I think the Dems are going to look pretty smart. They effectively killed the campaign of their nutball candidate with Superdelegates.
Republicans will wish that they had done the same.
This is for the "just win" folks. I think Trump is surrounded by a lot of "just win" people. They obviously don't care what is said, to get to "just win."
"Both adversaries engage in extensive political and economic espionage for the benefit of the government of the Russian Federation and are believed to be closely linked to the Russian government’s powerful and highly capable intelligence services."
How can they "highly capable" and leave obvious tracks like such as a Cyrillic personal signature?
Quaestor said...
Why are the Russian's so invested in who our president is? Why does Russian owned media push Trump?
Maybe they'd rather deal with someone more honest than Hillary.
7/25/16, 10:08 AM"
Considering she is a paranoid, a traitor to her own country and a criminal maybe the Russians are afraid of having someone like that with the finger on the button. At least with Trumpy Putin knows Trumpy isn't going to risk losing Manhattan (and his fortune) for any crazed reason. Or maybe the Russians are made because after paying the Clinton's off the Clinton's were still trying to shake him down again.
The software code that I have seen from the hack had all the telltale signs of being Russian, "
I have been a programmer for thirty years or more, not going to count them, but from back when I was called "microcomputer programmer analyst" and spent a great deal of that time in networking and security, and have no idea what that sentence could possibly refer to.
Leakers use Russian servers all the time. This is just a huge attempt at distraction from the real issues which are the contents of the emails.
The fivethirtyeight "Now Poll" has the benefit of what is known as the "convention bounce." Hillary will get a bounce of some magnitude next week and life goes on. Overall, the assessment of poll data and key states still shows the "chance of winning" advantage continues in Hillary's favor - but in my estimation, we are screwed either way.
Karen, you probably are a what you describe.
We'll know for sure that the Russkies are behind all this when certain suspicious foreigners surround the DNC convention center and begin to chant:
"E MARE Ghen cy! "E MARE Ghen cy! Please to flee to street!"
The Bernie protesters in the streets yesterday are very unlikely to vote for a criminal candidate like Hillary. Especially after finding out how the fix was in. btw, This post should get a "Hillary's in trouble" tag.
Maybe they are mad that Hillary charged too much when she gave them control of North American uranium deposits and took millions from them for the "Clinton Foundation"
Of course, I would think that the Russians, who live and die by the price of oil, would oppose a candidate like Trump who supports Keystone and North American energy development, and embrace a candidate like Hillary who opposes all energy sources (Fracking, Drilling, Mining) that don't involve unicorns shitting cotton candy.
But maybe they have some other agenda. Like figuring that shaddowy ties to a government they sought to overthrow, The Ukraine, means that Trump is pro Russian.
There are is a vast crew of professional hackers who are not Russian, are not exclusively agents of the FBS, work freelance for anyone who pays their fees, yet use the Cyrillic alphabet. Guess what nationality they may be? Hacking is virtually a national pastime in this country, and a substantial source of income. If you ever fell victim to a ransomware attack your Bitcoins got redeemed in this country, and it ain't Russia.
The software code that I have seen from the hack had all the telltale signs of being Russian, including code re-used from other attacks," Gourley told me. "This is a really big deal. Some people in the community are saying this is the Russians pretending to be a hacker
The home run hit by Big Papi had all the telltale signs of a home run hit by Beltran, including the use of a baseball bat and pulling a hanging curve! This is a big deal! Some People in "the community" are saying this is the Yankees trying to get the Red Sox past the Orioles because they think they can beat the Orioles in the Wildcard!
You can see how upset the various news commentators are on having to report this story, They would so much rather report on the fall of Roger Ailes. The relish with which they discuss the Ailes story contrasts starkly with their mumble mouth explication of this story.......All these massacres and now DNC leaks. Can we please get back to discussing Melania's plagiarism and Ailes' downfall. Those are the stories American really want to know about.
"Maybe they'd rather deal with someone more honest than Hillary."
The Russians respect honesty? Boy you are dumb.
Whatever we do though, lets not talk about Hillary's sagging..... poll numbers. Or her accepting millions of dollars from the Russians and doing them the double favor of killing Keystone XL and handing over US uranium deposits!
The thing that continues to hold in this election, the one constant, is that everything Hillary accuses Trump of, she has done and worse.
"The children are watching" - Hillary
"Mommy, what's a blow job?' - Thousands of kids in the 90s.
That's a good point, Chuckles -- every Real Republican knows that winning is tacky and that it would preclude giving an incredible concession speech!
Maybe a clandestine ring of Bernie Bros has infiltrated the DNC and is passing on secrets to the Russians. Wouldn't be getting first time something like that happened.
The Russians respect honesty? Boy you are dumb - Unknown.
Well, it is clear that you don't. Tell us again what favor will Trump do for Russia that is greater than standing by while Putin annexed territory, killing the Keystone pipeline, which would put downward pressure on Russia's main source of foreign exchange, and handing over our uranium supplies.
Was the millions of dollars they paid to Hillary's Clinton Foundation too much? Do they think Trump will sell us out cheaper?
Oh yeah, and serving up Syria as a Russian client on a silver platter?
There's something going on...
I think it is time that they released all of this "software code" they got from the "hack" that they are using to smear Trump and let us decide for ourselves.
I have an idea, let's turn it over to the FBI! They will get to the bottom of it in a non-partisan way!
When you have these computer security firms come and "witness" for the DNC that they think the Russkies did it, two not necessarily contradictory impulses are at work:
1) These firms honestly & objectively think that Russian cyber intelligence is behind theses hacks.
2) Conventional wisdom (up until now, in any case) has HRC winning the election. What a better way to ingratiate yourself with the new political powers to be & all the Dems' fuck buddies in Silicon Valley than to come out of nowhere and be their knight in shining armor when they are in the lurch.
It's amazing what you can convince yourself is the absolute objective true state of affairs when there may be a possibility of millions of dollars for you on the other side if you can just bring yourself to say it.
"How many lights do you see?"
Fabi said...
That's a good point, Chuckles -- every Real Republican knows that winning is tacky and that it would preclude giving an incredible concession speech!
Sharron Angle
Christine O'Donnell
Todd Akin
There is one thing that matters to Russia more than any other one thing. The price of oil. Which candidate is for higher oil prices?
That would be Hillary.
The topic is clearly presidential campaigns, Chuckie -- do try to pay attention.
p.s. -- whose concession speech is your favorite for masturbation? Dole, McCain or Romney?
Which candidate is for shutting down our mineral energy sector, the one that competes with Russia and has halved the price of oil?
That would be Hillary.
The Russians, as the Americans, as the French, etc. have a sincere interest to avoid resetting the cold war. The French have a sincere interest to avoid another Serbian war to establish an Islamic state. The Russians have a sincere interest to avoid another social-justice inspired humanitarian disaster a la Libya, Ukraine, Syria, Egypt, etc.
We may have smirked when Trump alluded to the National Enquirer as a 'credible' news source but we should all smirk when the NYT is similarly honored.
Fabi said...
The topic is clearly presidential campaigns, Chuckie -- do try to pay attention.
p.s. -- whose concession speech is your favorite for masturbation? Dole, McCain or Romney?
I understand that "COMMENTS ARE MODERATED some but not all of the time." This would be a good time.
Ouch, unknown. That comeback kind of hurt. I think I've been berned.
unknown said...
"Maybe they'd rather deal with someone more honest than Hillary."
The Russians respect honesty? Boy you are dumb.
Of course not, everyone knows they only respect reset buttons. Apparently there's something about student government elections they cant' get out of their psyche - like the French with Jerry Lewis. Experts believe it is a quirk originating from their Potemkin Villages.
_____________
Isn't it interesting Democrats are warning us about the danger the Russians pose. This just 4 years after Romney described them as our top geopolitical threat and the Democrats replied the 80s want their foreign policy back. As usual the Dems were interested in being cute but actually demonstrated they have no idea what they're doing. I think I'd spend a month or so running Obama's comment and Hillary's button around clips of them now hyperventilating.
Not sure why this is "fanciful"? "Speculative" yes, but the story seems within the realm of possibility. We know the emails were hacked, no one has denied they're really from the DNC. We know, I think, that Russia has lots of hackers, maybe they're all private individuals, but I think it's reasonable to say some of them work for the government.
We can speculate that Putin would rather see Trump win than Clinton. He'd prefer a neo-isolationist who's dubious about defending the Baltics. I think that's reasonable.
Now motive, means and opportunity aren't conclusive, but they certainly warrant investigation. The alternative story is some individual hackers/anarchists did the hacking just for the hell of it. That's quite possibly true as well. Or the paranoid story is that the DNC hacked themselves, just to set up the Russia narrative. I'm not paranoid.
Not that it'll happen, but now would be a good time for the Democratic delegates to stage an open convention and find another candidate. Nothing about this story is good for Clinton:
It'd be smart --- but they won't. I also thought it'd be a good move to replace Trump but the GOP wasn't about to try that, either. Hillary, even though nobody seems to actually like her, seems to be like J Edgar Hoover --- untouchable because she knows all of the skeletons in all of the closets.
Trump has put out stories that Barack Obama didn't have a birth certificate, that vaccines cause autism, and that the entire Bush Administration (and most of Congress and the Blair/Labour government of the United Kingdom) all lied to invade Iraq.
Yes, he did. Does it REMOTELY compare to this?
No?
Then why the hell would you bring it up?
Imagine the uproar talk-radio show hosts Laura Ingraham, Alex Jones and Rush Limbaugh would be whipping up now, if Hillary Clinton’s chief campaign manager had been for years a trusted adviser to Ukraine’s Viktor Yanukovych, as Donald Trump's Paul Manafort was.
...want to look at the Clinton Foundation in re Russia?
Imagine, too, that it was the Democrat’s presumptive White House nominee who considered appointing as her running mate a retired three-star general and former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency who last December bizarrely — and certainly ill-advisedly — chose to be a feted guest at a 10th anniversary gala in Moscow for Russia Today, the virulently anti-American Kremlin propaganda outlet and cheerleader for the Crimea land-grab of Crimea and Putin’s bombing of U.S.-supported Syrian rebels.
I don't see how "somebody he didn't choose nor did he publicly announce was considering" can equal to an endorsement, but YMMV.
What difference, at this point, does it make who hacked them?
This HARMS the Dems. So, the story is only going to be about the source of the hack. Media playbook rule #412.
Why wasn't the RNC hacked?
Who says it wasn't? Decent money would say the emails included were boring and mundane.
By contrast, the Bernie Bros are still ascendant
Irrelevant because BERNIE DIDN'T WANT TO WIN. Ever. He didn't care from day one. Supporters are not going to "ascendant" for long when their candidate is a pathetic little lapdog.
Why are the Russian's so invested in who our president is?
Same reason every country is, most likely.
Because if it were to be revealed that Trump has a connection to Putin and Putin 'owns' Trump somehow, we Americans could have the Russian's man in our White House. The implications are HUGE.
If it came out that Trump was REALLY a Mexican and was illegal, imagine the implications of that!
It's about as likely, mind you.
So you have to ask, if this was the Russians why did they leave their fingerprints all over it? Why did they want everybody to know it was them?
One of many parts of Mook's theory that the Dems are running with that will go unasked and unanswered.
Moscow is orchestrating a vast information campaign, the Voice of Moscow, to influence the US election by leaking the truth about Hillary Clinton.
Carruthers, how can we counter this evil plot? We just got rid of the newspapers who used to spread truth around and now this.
Well sir, I've written a short speech for Hillary. "My Fellow Americans, I am a crook. Bill is a crook. Chelsea is a crook. You've always known it, you've never cared. Why start now? Why listen to the Voice of Moscow and its "truths" about how DWS worked against Sanders. Or whatever. America - you didn't build it, it never was, (as someone has pointed out) and now I've sold it. So what. At this point what difference does it make? Screw you."
Well, I'm not sure ...
Well, sir, I can assure you that the media will glow with praise - honest, down to earth and the pollsters will show a ten point rise. Look sir, we're going to cheat in the cities. Nothing anyone says matters.
Yes but what if there are leaks on how that happens?
A sizable percentage of Bernie followers chose him because Hillary was not sufficiently far left enough/voted for war/yada, yada, yada. Most of them will come home to vote D when push comes to shove.
Another large fraction are innocents feeling the flush of idealism in their first presidential election. They want free college/forgiveness of debt. They want a revolution. Bernie may have been their Pied Piper, but when he changes his tune to "Vote Hillary!" they will be disillusionedz and scatter. Many of them will NOT vote for Hillary.
I don't understand the Clinton campaign pushing this ridicular story. It is equivalent to Trump pushing the "Ted Cruz father connection to Oswald" story. I suppose it works for the diehards but the election won't be decided by the crazies and this story is up there with blaming Benghazi on a YouTube video, claiming her home brewed email server is something other Secretaries of State did, and blaming stories of Bill Clinton's sexual assaults on a vast right wing conspiracy.
The FBI on Monday confirmed they are investigating a hack into the Democratic National Committee, the first acknowledgment from the agency that they are probing the incident, which US officials suspect came from a Russian cyber attack.
The truth is sure to come out now! Comey's on the case!
Don't worry though, they never attacked Hillary's server!
Wow, I guess their talking points are "no longer operative." I am sure the trolls will be back with a fresh set they hope will stick.
"It'd be smart --- but they won't. I also thought it'd be a good move to replace Trump but the GOP wasn't about to try that, either. Hillary, even though nobody seems to actually like her, seems to be like J Edgar Hoover --- untouchable because she knows all of the skeletons in all of the closets."
The Clinton power over the Dems baffles me--when it's pretty clear that she is neither reliable (from the leftists' point of view, or even the moderates for that matter) or skilled at politics and campaigning (which we had plenty of evidence of for the past several years, certainly in 2008 alone) why they don't smell blood in the water and take the Clintons out. I figure there were a lot of threats (e.g., if you don't endorse by X date, or send even one penny to a rival candidate, even if you come around later, you're toast in terms of access or any future in the party) but those threats only work if people believe the Clintons are definitely going to win so they can carry them out.
I can't imagine the Dems are not freaking out right now. Behind in the polls, even after the RNC circus and with Trump's high negatives, and with their own party rending over this DWS flap (fulfilling the constant narrative of Hillary as crooked)--they may end up with President Trump, simply because they put their faith in this woman. And how much sweeter when they discover it was her husband who prodded Trump into running!
If that actually happens, I would hope that all descendents of the Clintons are so embarrassed that they forever change their family name to something less infamous, like Himmler.
"It is equivalent to Trump pushing the "Ted Cruz father connection to Oswald" story."
It's no wonder you support Trump. What a dumb comment.
The other thing about this "Russia connection" is that it is irrelevant as to what is really pissing off the Sanders fans (and the rest of us who see the stink of the whole mess). Confronted with "hey, the ostensibly neutral DNC was biased against a legitimate primary candidate and tipped the scales to helping their preferred choice" they respond with "Russians!"
If your kid was caught stealing from the cookie jar, and then told you "the only way you found out was because the Russians want you to get mad at me" you'd rightly think your kid was an idiot.
""It is equivalent to Trump pushing the "Ted Cruz father connection to Oswald" story."
It's no wonder you support Trump. What a dumb comment."
How is that a dumb comment? Both conspiracy theories are thin gruel and off message. In typical Clinton fashion, they go with blaming whoever outed them rather than actually defending the charges or owning up to them. They're reminding us what we're in for if they get elected.
Sanders talking to delegates now, telling them that they MUST make sure Trump doesn't win. He's laying out the case against Trump, he needs to be very clear to what the alternative is and keep repeating this. His agenda would not see any progress under a Trump/ Putin regime.
"Electing Trump would be dangerous".
Bernie Sanders
I have no doubt the Ruskies did the hack. They have hated Bernie ever since he stiffed the commie hotel on his honeymoon. The plan is for Bernie to pull a Cruz and be ruined forever.
Even better, Brando; it is like Trump lashing out at Cruz, for an unrelated PAC's use of the Melania Trump seminude photos. Trump didn't mind the photos when they were shot; he liked them. He didn't mind that GQ published them; Trump thinks GQ is "classy." But Trumped freaked our about them being emailed to Republican primary voters in Utah. So much so that Trumo felt it justified a gutter-level attack on Cruz and his wife and father.
"Sharron Angle
Christine O'Donnell
Todd Akin"
And every Democrat and Lifelong Republican who ever lost an election? That may be the most vapid comment I've ever seen on here, Chuck.
Real Republican Chuck calls for censorship! That must have hit really close to home! Was it Romney's? You can tell me, Chuckles -- I'll keep it a secret. Promise!
Sharron Angle
Christine O'Donnell
Todd Akin
Eric Cantor
John Boehner
Mitt Romney
Jeb Bush
This is for the "just win" folks. I think Trump is surrounded by a lot of "just win" people. They obviously don't care what is said, to get to "just win."
Yeah...it's not like the GOP Establishment has been telling conservatives to hold their nose for the last thirty years and vote for the Establishment drone because he is the "most electable", or has spent the last thirty years promising to roll back the Democratic agenda and spending, and to reduce the size of government, only to get Congressional majorities and waste them by passing continuing resolutions that lock in Democratic spending priorities and levels....we'll do it next time, promise!
Well Lucy, go ahead and pull that football...we're not going to try and kick it this time.
His agenda would not see any progress under a Trump/ Putin regime.
You have a little drool on your chin there, Unknown.
But don't worry, Unknown isn't stupid or anything. Neither is Hillary, they just keep saying and doing stupid things.
The FBI is "probing the incident, which US officials suspect came from a Russian cyber attack." CNN
Priceless!! U.S. officials never suspect Islamic terrorism even in the face of "allahu akbars," but when Crooked Hilarious needs a red herring ....
And by all means, call the FBI! You know, the guys who couldn't tell if the Russians hacked Crooked Hilarious's email.
Judas priest, Democrats really are courting the ignoramus vote and the government, the mediaswine and the lefty trolls are all in.
My favorite story of the day:
Sanders delegates chant 'Lock her up!' at Dem breakfast
LOL
"Russia plans to attack Hillary by getting out the truth about her!" LO FUCKING L
I think the Russian angle is almost certainly false (it is far more likely that someone in DNC itself amassed and leaked the material to Assange), and it is a sign of some real desperation on Clinton's part. Even with a compliant media, this story will have no beneficial effect for Clinton's campaign, and is far more likely to damage her because it only reminds people how cavalier she was with State Department e-mail security. In addition, it only makes it more likely other news organizations are going to look at cash flowing from Russian interests into the Clinton Foundation. Desperation.
It is kind of sickening to see Sanders sell out after knuckling under to the Clintons who corrupt everything they touch.
And the unbelievable ignorance of the right would help usher in a Putin puppet into the White House. Should Trump win. may the right be the first to learn Russian.
it only makes it more likely other news organizations are going to look at cash flowing from Russian interests into the Clinton Foundation.
LO FUCKING L again! You did see from the emails that media outlets send their stories to the DNC for approval and co-ordination of response before sending them even to their editors.
Hillary should be worried.
A lot of people felt disenfranchised. A lot of people are working so hard and getting nowhere. A lot of people are sick with politics the way it is," she said. "And Bernie and Trump spoke to those people.”
And the unbelievable ignorance of the right would help usher in a Putin puppet into the White House. Should Trump win. may the right be the first to learn Russian.
This HAS to be the sane "Unknown" mocking the DWS clone with irony. Either that, or the wheels really are coming off.
What would a Putin puppet do? Shut down Keystone? Check. Though maybe they wouldn't demand millions in "donations."
Cripple US energy production? Check again!
Look the other way while Putin annexes the Crimea? Check!
What about ignore Russia's shooting down of an airliner out of Amsterdam? Do you think Trump would do that for his buddy Putin? Oh wait... we already did that.
All of this after mocking Palin relentlessly, then Romney, for suggesting that Putin was an adversary at all!
Tim,
The media isn't monolithic any longer. Even the NYT has investigated the cash and found troubling issues with Clinton. And, at the end of the day, the e-mails themselves show how the Clintons corrupt everything they touch, regardless of their source. Blaming the Russians is simply not going to work, and is far more likely to backfire. It literally reeks of desperation- note how unhinged the trolls are on this issue. That is what independents are going to see- how irrational the claim is.
Chuck (12:40): "... So much so that Trumo felt it justified a gutter-level attack on Cruz and his wife and father."
So what's your point? Trump's a jerk, therefore the country will be better off with incompetent, Crooked Hillary, who is also a jerk??
It is kind of sickening to see Sanders sell out after knuckling under to the Clintons who corrupt everything they touch.
I don't understand that mentality.
Was there any chance, at all, it'd go any different?
I said from day one he was the Washington Generals to her Harlem Globetrotters. He was just there to make to her look good. He failed miserably in that regard, mind you, but that was his job.
But, like all of his jobs, he was pretty bad at it.
And the unbelievable ignorance of the right would help usher in a Putin puppet into the White House.
Unlike Obama, who has used his increased flexibility to stymie Putin in no way anybody can figure out.
david sanger was who leaked two iraq war plans, and the stuixtnet, which had less effect than expected,
@hombre, in 2016 we have the privilege of voting for a jerk from the Republican Party, a bigger and dumber jerk from the Democrats, a jerk from the Libertarians, or a jerk from a party that wants us all to freeze to death in the dark.
Can we start this year over again?
"@hombre, in 2016 we have the privilege of voting for a jerk from the Republican Party, a bigger and dumber jerk from the Democrats, a jerk from the Libertarians, or a jerk from a party that wants us all to freeze to death in the dark.
Can we start this year over again?"
Whoa there--I'd like to hear more about this "freeze to death in the dark" option.
I don't know about the FBI, but I will bet you the DNC does NOT want to find out who hacked their emails.
I feel the same way, Doug.
tim in vermont:
Look the other way while Putin annexes the Crimea?
The Crimea is a safe haven for Ukrainians who were displaced by the violent, Western-backed coup. Apparently, Ukraine lacks a proactive Egyptian-quality military that would have restored the peace.
What the F are they thinking with this line of argument? The only people who will buy it are Hillary die hard fandogs, which are not the audience. I thought the Republicans were the Stupid Party.
"Look the other way while Putin annexes the Crimea?"
Putin already has the Crimea. And the Donets. As good as annexed.
Even Trump credits Russians and Chinese with hacking DNC.
So the egocentric, authoritarian, American billionaire is expected by the Democrats and their pimps in the media to become a puppet for the egocentric, authoritarian, Russian billionaire?
Seriously? That's the story Crooked Hillary and her dupes are peddling now?
Democrats look really dumb with this. So Trump *won't* start a nuclear war, Russia thinks, and Hillary will? We know Russia doesn't want nuclear war, so why are they helping Trump?
They're crying. It's so unfair. Why aren't *Trump* secrets being leaked? It was Her Turn.
From Yahoo News investigative reporter Mike Isikoff:
Just weeks after she started preparing opposition research files on Donald Trump’s campaign chairman Paul Manafort last spring, Democratic National Committee consultant Alexandra Chalupa got an alarming message when she logged into her personal Yahoo email account.
“Important action required,” read a pop-up box from a Yahoo security team that is informally known as “the Paranoids.” “We strongly suspect that your account has been the target of state-sponsored actors.”
Chalupa — who had been drafting memos and writing emails about Manafort’s connection to pro-Russian political leaders in Ukraine — quickly alerted top DNC officials. “Since I started digging into Manafort, these messages have been a daily occurrence on my Yahoo account despite changing my password often,” she wrote in a May 3 email to Luis Miranda, the DNC’s communications director, which included an attached screengrab of the image of the Yahoo security warning.
Thanks for reposting that readering. I wonder why it disappeared.
Yahoo security
An oxymoron if ever there was one.
Why aren't *Trump* secrets being leaked?
Trump has no secrets. He says everything that's on his mind, whether we want to hear it or not.
This Althouse post is not aging very well . . . .
This Althouse post is not aging very well . . . .
No, but I am. :-D
NPR actually did TWO segments on this during "All Things Considered" treating it as serious news not a absurd conspiracy theory. The louder the delegates boo, the harder they push this nonsense.
Smells like desperation.
This Althouse post is not aging very well .... - readering
Why not? Is there some actual evidence that the Russians did it? Or is it just that leakers use Russian servers because any suitable server in the West is under constant surveillance. The only way to get beyond it is to wander into the dark web and Russia.
Climategate was leaked through Russia, and the same claim of Russian hackers was made.
Hillary has done Russia YUUGE favors as SoS. Shutting down Keystone, for example, giving Russia control over North American uranium, etc. etc. Of course these favors cost the Russians millions in "donations" to the Clinton Foundation, but that is just the cost of doing business.
What is in these emails is the real issue. Their veracity has been confirmed. Is it your contention that the Russians are attacking Hillary by telling America the truth about her and the DNC?
Every attack on Trump bounces back on Hillary with even more stink. These sellouts to the Russians by Hillary are known. This interference of the Russian govt in our elections is baseless speculation.
From NBC News:
Many U.S. officials and cyber security experts in and out of government are convinced that state-sponsored Russian hackers are the ones who stole 20,000 emails from the Democratic National Committee and leaked them to the public just in time to disrupt the Democrats' national convention in Philadelphia.
Here's why the experts are so confident the Russians did it:
GEOGRAPHY: At least one of the hacker groups attacking the DNC appeared to cease operations on Russian holidays, and its work hours aligned with a Russian time zone, cybersecurity company FireEye concluded in a report.
LANGUAGE: The hackers also left an obvious digital fingerprint, one cybersecurity expert said, perhaps on purpose: a signature in Russia's Cyrillic alphabet.
FORENSIC EVIDENCE: After a different batch of hacked Democratic emails was released last month, a wide spectrum of cyber-security experts concluded that it was the work of Russian intelligence agencies through previously known proxy groups known as COZY BEAR or APT 29, and FANCY BEAR or APT 28. "We've had lots of experience with both of these actors … and know them well," according to the DNC's own contract cybersecurity firm, Crowdstrike, which blogged that one of the two groups had already gained illegal access to the White House, State Department and even the military's Joint Chiefs of Staff.
MOTIVE: Given their mutual and very public bromance, Putin would much prefer a Trump presidency to a Clinton one, and the timing suggests the leak was timed for maximum embarrassment to the Democrats and their presumptive nominee. Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook said the campaign was told by cyber experts that Russian hackers stole and released the emails to help Trump. "I don't think it's coincidental that these emails were released on the eve of our convention here," said Mook, "and I think that's disturbing."
HISTORY: U.S. intelligence officials, including Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, said they had previously seen evidence of foreign hackers spying on U.S. presidential candidates, including some state-sponsored ones, and that such cyber-intrusions would become even more commonplace.
The main reason, however, is that the email hack is exactly the kind of thing Russian hackers can do, are supposed to do, and are used for by Putin and his aides, retired four-star Adm. James Stavridis told NBC News.
tim in vermont said...
It is kind of sickening to see Sanders sell out after knuckling under to the Clintons who corrupt everything they touch.
Honestly, Tim. What did you think was going to happen? He'a a career pol. He want's to keep his career pol. job.
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