Reports the BBC just now.
ADDED: The current report is that the coup has failed.
President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in a speech from Istanbul’s international airport, blamed the coup attempt on a group of followers of U.S.-based Islamic preacher Fethullah Gulen. "They will pay a heavy price for their treason," Erdogan said....
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68 comments:
It's Hillary's fault.
It must be another Obama/Hillary success story.
I hope some MP's come up and tap Obama on the shoulder right now.... pause for a minute, and then ask him about his trip to Martha's Vineyard.
Who know, maybe he'll keel over in fright.
--Vance
Apparently there are reports that Erdogan is requesting asylum in Germany.
Raises a question in my mind about asylum requests -- when there's a civil war and the government is overthrown, it's the monsters who have the most cause to seek asylum. After all, they've just lost power, and their victims will be seeking their revenge.
(I tried to find one of the news articles where the torturer's victim chanced to see him in an Ethiopian restaurant somewhere and reported him but couldn't -- I may have the wrong man though. I seriously doubt this was the only time we've granted asylum to a member of a death squad).
Yet again the efforts of Obama/Hillary to bring peace to that troubled part of the globe have been vindicated.......I hope Turkey doesn't end up in the kind of civil war that is happening in Syria. All change in that area is for the worse. The only peaceful area is the West Bank in Palestine.
The president is going to try his best to fuck this up by attacking the generals and siding with Islamic extremists who want to take over Turkey.
Pretty soon Obama is going to hear about this on the news.
Please keep the reports coming, even though everything that will be fragmentary and have much error. I had thought they had put it down. TVs in the bullpen talked about somebody shooting down somebody or any rate something going with helicopters and shooting. Someone said it can't be called a coup, it's an uprising which I suppose is lesser and seems to imply failure.
Anyway, also do we know what's behind it? Is this an islamist uprising or an anti-islamist uprising? The thing is this should have happened years ago, but Erdogan has been taking measures to prevent just this event. Purging the ranks. Hmm, kinda like Obama.
Sorry for typos. Arch Stanton
Who will be the more effective leader in a world on the edge? Trump isn't nearly ready for what's coming. We'll soon see who makes more sense and comports themselves as a President of a powerful nation should. Is it worth the pleasure of voting for Trump merely to say F/U to the elites? We need someone with foreign policy chops and that someone is not Trump by a long shot.
Asylum report from Daily Beast. There are reports that the head of the military has been killed -- might have been an Erdogan crony installed after he purged the generals but I don't follow Turkish news closely so I really have no idea.
Where east meets west. Entered the Black Sea on my first two Med cruises. Visited Instanbul on the second.
Dardanelles/Bosphorus the whole nine yards.
Don't get caught with drugs in Turkey. Spain and Malaysia also.
btw, the Black Sea isn't black.
That's all I got ...
John Kerry could not be reached for comment.
It sounds like the main source for the Erdogan asylum claim is the US military -- given the close links between our military and the Turkish military (we use Incirlik after all), I suppose they may be using us to push disinformation out during this critical period.
If there are still any who hope that Turkey can be allowed to join the EU, they ought to abandon it now.
Indeed, let's send Trump over there now as a personal state dept. envoy to clean up the mess. He's quite familiar w/military tactics having gone to New York Military Academy.
What could possibly go wrong!
Re: Marc Puckett:
If there are still any who hope that Turkey can be allowed to join the EU, they ought to abandon it now.
Haha, it would have been lunacy to admit them with Erdogan in power.
Now I am reading twitter reports that the military has "backed down" from Ankara airport? Why on earth would they do that?? Honestly, no idea what to believe at this point. I suspect both sides are pumping disinformation out. I probably shouldn't be wasting my time glued to the live update feeds like this.
Arch--
I would guess it's the military overthrowing the government. In that case good. The military sees themselves as the protectors of a secular and democratic society. They gave done this several times in the past few decades.
But this time may be different. Erdogan is a nasty Islamists. I don't think he'll go quietly. If the coup is a failure he will declare dictator powers. If the coup is a success I fear he'll orchestrate a terror campaign and possibly civil war.
Who will be the more effective leader in a world on the edge?
I'm betting Bibi Netanyahu.
Trump isn't nearly ready for what's coming.
I agree.
We'll soon see who makes more sense and comports themselves as a President of a powerful nation should.
We already have....it was Bush.
Is it worth the pleasure of voting for Trump merely to say F/U to the elites?
I almost think so.....I certainly understand the people who do think so. however I haven't gone the full Howard Beale, so I'm writing my own name in.
We need someone with foreign policy chops and that someone is not Trump by a long shot.
I agree...but Hillary isn't the answer. She's an evil, corrupt liar who fucks up everything she touches. Even Trump is better than her.
Re: Bill --
If the coup is a success I fear he'll orchestrate a terror campaign and possibly civil war.
Yeah, probably. But mostly terror campaign -- for years now there've been rumours that his party has been funding ISIS by enabling them to sell their oil in violation of sanctions/embargos etc. He probably has the necessary networks to burn Turkey to the ground if he isn't neutralised. But after an initial surge of optimism, I'm back into my usual pessimism. The result will be inconclusive or absolutely horrible. We (the US) will try to split the difference and push for something absurd and utterly unsustainable -- everyone will ignore us. Turkey will launch a doomsday wave of migrants at the EU. Everything will be horrible.
I'm very worried. My daughter lives in Istanbul although she has been in Myanmar these last few day. Not sure when she was supposed to go back to Istanbul. She can't get there now by all accounts.
Maybe she'll just come home. Heh.
Turkey has a tradition, since Kemal Ataturk, of the secular military rising up when the leadership becomes more radical Muslim.
This is a balancing act and probably a good thing.
Re: Francisco D:
Turkey has a tradition, since Kemal Ataturk, of the secular military rising up when the leadership becomes more radical Muslim.
The balance has been shifting more and more towards radical Islam in recent years, though. And Islamists aren't idiots -- they've been working hard to undermine the military. Erdogan had his show trials of military officers, etc.
What could possibly go wrong!
7/15/16, 5:03 PM
I know Shiloh, let's send you!
I wonder if this will lead to "Turxit" from NATO.
"I know Shiloh, let's send you!"
Many are called, few are chosen ...
Hey, I volunteered once.
Never
Again
Volunteer
Yourself
Oh what the hell ~ if Uncle Sam needs me!
Two questions: How much did Erdogan contribute to the Clinton Foundation? How many of Hillary!'s emails has he got?
My guess is that the military is acting now, while Pres. Feckless is still in office, because Hillary! will not be their friend.
Tromp probably thinks Turkey is something to do with Thanksgiving.
One can hope it doesn't descend into civil war like Iraq and Syria. If it does descend into civil war, the refugee crisis in Europe will be be 20 times worse than the last year.
I hope the Army officers who were so friendly and helpful to us when we were there are OK and hope they are in the junta.
When Turkey is ruled by the military, it is a friend. Muslims don't do democracy well.
And don't tell me... Obama never saw it coming.
Geeze.. He makes Jimmy Carter look like an elder statesman.
This is good news for the west and for the young of Istanbul and Ankara.
Good. I hope the military pulls it off.
I think Trump is funding the coup, to detract attention from his campaign logo catastrophe.
Chuck: "I think Trump is funding the coup, to detract attention from his campaign logo catastrophe."
This is precisely the sort of substantive comment one would expect of a "lifelong republican".
Another reason this may be different -- the Kurds.
What if the Kurds from Iraq, Atria and Turkey declare their own country? What if the Kurds in Iran want to join? Thus could be a huge mess.
Shiloh,
You really have nothing to offer. If you say nothing, people will not know that you are an idiot. When you open your mouth ....
Atria? What the hell is that. Try Syria and it makes more sense.
Blogger Sami said..."It's Hillary's fault."
I know!
Thank God we have a president and two nominees that have a firm grasp on foreign policy.
Obama will support the Islamists.
Hillary will bomb someone and make everything worse.
Trump won't want to get involved but the Republican establishment will push for ground troops somewhere.
Let Trump be Trump!
We are so fucked .
foreign policy chops
Yaaasss.
So Obama didn't see it coming. Almost gives the impression he doesn't care. Or pay attention. "Ben? What's this I read about Turkey? Susan and Valerie keep calling me."
I think Trump is funding the coup.
Out of the box thinking there Champ.
Trump will say "Let the Russians do it".
"You really have nothing to offer. If you say nothing, people will not know that you are an idiot. When you open your mouth ...."
Francisco D, why are you reading my comments if I have nothing to offer? Rhetorical.
take care, blessings
We need to keep our nose out of their affairs. We supported a coup in Egypt, mistake.
Have been at work and detached from the Internet. It appears that the situation is 'fluid'; a former minister is quoted in the Guardian five minutes ago: 'they are using illegal methods!', those making the coup attempt. Imagine! Apparently it all kicked off three hours ago? I don't remember much from Edward Luttwak's Coup d'Etat-- pretty sure that's not the book's actual title; 'C. d'E: A Practical Handbook' it is-- but if the golpistas haven't managed to seize their major targets and eliminate the legitimate government &c by now, maybe they won't.
Balfegor and all, remember when Turkish-Israeli good relations were going to reshape the balance of power in the Levant?
Go Turkeys!
shiloh said...
Don't get caught with drugs in Turkey.
The government doesn't want any competition. Like Mexico, etc.
Hope this is good news, with the military doing its traditional role in Turkey to restore secular society.
"The government doesn't want any competition. Like Mexico, etc."
True, if you're a Turkish citizen you can puff until the cows come home. But if you're a foreigner, especially American/Brit etc., don't get caught.
Just go to one of their "smoke shops" and inhale.
My daughter is currently in Mandalay but I just talked to her and she said that her roommates in Istanbul say it's already over and the military failed. Dang. I wanted the military to win.
Hope the roommates are right that it's over but wrong about the outcome.
And right on cue. Kerry issued a statement saying we absolutely support the government of Turkey.
Obama will support the Islamists. Check.
Well, its prudent to support whomever looks like the winner.
It seems Erdogan has the upper hand, so thats SOP.
How does one stay in power forever even during volatile times when you're on vacation?
Contingency plans.
If true the coup has been thwarted, obviously Erdogan is better at chess than his military opposition.
Fox was reporting that the coup seems to be failing. They certainly made it more difficult on themselves by not getting control of Erdogan.
Muslims don't do democracy well.
They don't do democracy at all!
"by not getting control of Erdogan."
It sounds like he may have fled to his ally Merkel.
Too bad.
Detailing a call between Mr Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry, the White House said both agreed "all parties in Turkey should support the democratically-elected government of Turkey, show restraint, and avoid any violence or bloodshed".
Why are these fools on the wrong side of everything. What's the over/under on when America will be blamed?
So, I guess it's time for meat hooks and piano wire?
I don't really think that the Turks need to take lessons from even the Nazis in barbarity and cruelty. If you want to make a quick buck, invest in the Turkish coffin industry.
Coup failed.
Turkey now becomes Egypt, circa Morsi era.
The Brotherhood lives....
It's so comforting to know that our NATO ally remains intact.
I'm starting to think this was a false flag operation.
I can't believe I'm saying that, as I have never bought into any before.
After viewing live footage from Sky News and CNN, something is amiss.
No one really got hurt,and no one really fought.
Didn't Merkel deny Erdragon the right to land in Germany when the action first started? That's gonna make things a little awkward at the next NATO powwow.
Textbook example of how not to run a coup.
1. Failed to silence the leader (Erdogan.)
2. No visible leader themselves.
3. No program.
4. No popular appeal, no popular support.
It's an ugly scene. Daily Mail has many photos of large male citizens taking "revenge" on soldiers. The soldiers look young and terrified. They were sent out on a fool's errand and ran into a mob. They also ran into the "police," a paramilitary group loyal to Erdogan.
You have to dig deep to understand Turkish internal politics and I have not done the digging. I'm not clear whether the failure of the coup confirms secular democracy, or gives authoritarian tendencies greater opportunity. Time will tell.
One more thought on the weakness of the coup plot in Turkey.
They took over the television (or part of it) thinking they had their hands on the means of communication. They ignored social media, which Erdogan immediately used to great advantage. Social media is hard to shut down unless you already control the government. Even then it's not easy.
When Gorbachov was ousted by ac coup, the plotters contained him in his villa and cut off all of his means of communication with both the public and other elements of government. It's more difficult to do that now but the Turk army plotters seem hardly to have tried.
False flag (as suggested above?) Anything is possible but I'm skeptical. Too many moving parts.
After reading countless news articles, I'm still confused. Who are [were] the insurgent soldiers? What is their ideology? Is Erdogan more like Hussein or Fattah el-Sisi?
Re: David:
You have to dig deep to understand Turkish internal politics and I have not done the digging. I'm not clear whether the failure of the coup confirms secular democracy, or gives authoritarian tendencies greater opportunity. Time will tell.
Time will tell, I suppose, but I think we all knew that Erdogan was moving aggressively to neuter the military's ability to serve as a check on the Islamist/anti-secular parties in Turkish politics. The question was whether his show trials had cut deep enough into the military to accomplish this end. I think we have our answer now -- he did. Time to write off Turkey. Our next government should pivot away from Turkey and towards Russia and, eugh, Iran.
"whether the failure of the coup confirms secular democracy, or gives authoritarian tendencies greater opportunity."
Why not both?
How do you not start by killing Erdogan?
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