“We have built our lives trying not to get in trouble,” [said the father of 3 of the arrested children]. “We don’t drink, don’t do drugs. We have lived and tried to live as blasé as possible, never trying to do more than we need to do, and we raise our kids to be model citizens so they don’t get in trouble. It is disheartening to us that our kids have to go through this.”Here's the video.
April 26, 2016
"It is wholly unacceptable to haul children away from school in handcuffs for a charge that does not actually exist."
"The growing trend of criminalizing students — particularly students of color — within our educational system must stop," said Hedy Weinberg, executive director of the A.C.L.U. in Tennessee, after 10 children under the age of 12 were arrested in Murfreesboro in a reaction to a YouTube video showing them (allegedly them) in a YouTube video bullying a little boy.
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66 comments:
Either you buy into the bullying nonsense or not. Police involvement is legit as it happened outside of school.
When these kids get to college, instead of working out any little incidents on their own, they'll appeal to the Assistant Vice Provost In Charge of Very Small Incidents, all the while asking why their tuition is so high.
The Police in Murfreesboro won't recognize the role they have played in creating such un-self-sufficient children.
Missing from the story in the paper: How did the Police get involved? Who sicced them on the kids?
"particularly students of color"
Wait, what? Why is this "particularly" egregious if it involves children who are melanin-rich?
And, Madison Man, perfect comment, as usual. I really appreciate your contributions here.
The only question is whether they got the right perps. But if you're using violence on anyone, you absolutely deserve to be arrested, end of story.
And why this endless focus on race? Stop racializing everything. The message we send to black people is "the deck's stacked against you for your race, so give up". Sure, it makes white leftists feel nice and enlightened when they say it, but it's everyone else who has to live with these consequences.
Teach your kids not to bully. It'll save them a lot of trouble down the road, particularly if they bully the wrong person.
"Wait, what? Why is this "particularly" egregious if it involves children who are melanin-rich?"
You'll notice more unarmed white people than black people get shot by the cops every year, yet the focus right now would lead you to believe it was the other way around. Black Lives Matter apparently means White Lives Don't.
When will the ACLU decry the desperate impact,"particularly [on male] students of color,"of the Obama DOE's Title IX regulations pertaining to allegations of sexual assault?
Should middle school or elementary school students who participate in an assault, swarming a lone student, be exempt from accountability under the juvenile justice system? I would think that they should not be exempt.
Was it necessary to "perp walk" them all in handcuffs? That seems over the top.
Ms. Weinberg's comments about "students of color" says something about the politicization of the ACLU. Would the ACLU be responding if the video showed white kids bullying a lone black kid in the same way?
The long quote from the father of three of the children seems to me a non sequitur. A video shows school children swarming another child, and the quote "responds" by saying that these kids are model citizens and it is disgeartening to see these good kids (the assailants) victimised? Huh?
we raise our kids to be model citizens so they don’t get in trouble.”
“It is disheartening to us that our kids have to go through this,” he said.
Uh, Dad, you need to face reality about your kids being predatory little assholes and stop making excuses for them.
Kids will be kids, and not everything requires police or school intervention, but that's assuming that when parents find out about that kind of behavior, they put a firm stop to it instead of ridiculous statements like "our kids have to go through this." They chose to pick on another kid and film it. They're not victims here, genius.
Correction to my comment above:
Ms. Weinberg's comments about "students of color" says something about the politicization of the ACLU. Would the ACLU be responding IN DEFENCE OF THE ASSAILANTS if the video showed white kids bullying a lone black kid in the same way?
The world has certainly gotten weird. In "the olden days" a couple of these kids would have had a fist fight, maybe some wrestling around on the ground, then off to the local park for some touch football. No one's parents, and certainly not the police, would have ever heard about it. Later, the kids who fought each other would double date in Junior High. Some things were better back then.
Maybe it's the cell phones.
“We don’t drink, don’t do drugs. We have lived and tried to live as blasé as possible, never trying to do more than we need to do, and we raise our kids to be model citizens so they don’t get in trouble."
My brain cannot process this into a meaningful phrase: it's like "how much does yellow weigh?" The words are real words, the syntax is correct... but they do not for a real thought.
You live as blasé as possible, never trying to do more than we need to do ... and yet also "raise our kids to be model citizens".
Nope, still doesn't compute.
The ACLU is angling for BIG MONEY in a lawsuit against the police.
Why is the video in odd tones of color ? To conceal race of the kids ?
The kid being bullied is bigger, it looks to me. Why him ? Is he a "sissy?"
I guess you can't say that anymore. Trans-gender is now a protected class.
Maybe if he had punched one or two of them, it would have ended. Or maybe the knives would have appeared.
I think the racial concern here is that the authorities are judging the kids subjectively in a different way because of their race and different treatment is deemed appropriate because of race. There's no way to know in fact whether there was different treatment here, but it may look that way to the kids and their parents and to others, and it's a problem even if it is only perception, and we don't even know whether it is only perception.
African tribal gang initiation being outlawed by Northern European Values. Tsk tsk..
Tank: two kids squaring off out by the bike racks after school to settle a dispute through honorable combat was one thing (yes, many of us rode our bikes to school every day), but these days we"re seeing one kid getting swarmed by half a dozen other kids. There's nothing honorable about that. And then the assailants post this shit to social media. And it's pretty sick that they think this is a good thing. Maybe the cops can put a scare into these kids and save them from a. Lot more trouble down the road.
I read the headline, and thought it had to do with some school having an 8-9 year old kid arrested because of some lame thing like bringing a plastic butter knife to school. I should have known that the ACLU wouldn't squawk about stuff like that - that kind of stuff happens mostly to white kids, and the ACLU knows better than to piss off the education establishment directly. No, it has to be a real situation where some kid DOES get beat up where the ACLU has something to say.
I'm not sure what isn't a crime here. Looks like a conspiracy to commit assault and battery against the kid who showed remarkable restraint. The kid that is walking away knows that if he turns to defend himself against the "little brother" that the older brothers will probably kick the crap out of him.
I'm all for the idea of kids learning to settle things for themselves but apparently the concept of a fair fight is dead.
The use of "wholly unacceptable" is pretentious.
I agree with Alexander about the nonsensical word ratatouille from the father, beginning with the bizarre misuse of the word base.
So I guess that we should just let these kids keep beating people us as gangs until they kill or brutally cripple someone, and then we can bring in the criminal justice system and send the whole group of them to prison for a decade or so. http://cw33.com/2016/04/21/16-year-old-girl-beaten-to-death-in-high-school-bathroom/
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/girl-beaten-mcdonald-caught-video-warning-graphic-article-1.2145599
Anyone that is not scared to death of undisciplined or downright feral 12, 13 or 14 year old kids is living in a dream world. The Mexican cartels routinely use 12 to 14 year olds as executioners. Kids who have not been civilized by that age are absolute monsters.
When I lived in Boston, there was a story about a white guy whose 13 year old son had been harassed by some white bullies of the same age. The man -- a big strong guy -- knew who the kids were and decided to confront them where they hung out. He later told the newspaper that their reaction to him was the scariest thing he had ever seen; he thought he was lucky that he had not been killed.
"I think the racial concern here is that the authorities are judging the kids subjectively in a different way because of their race and different treatment is deemed appropriate because of race. There's no way to know in fact whether there was different treatment here, but it may look that way to the kids and their parents and to others, and it's a problem even if it is only perception, and we don't even know whether it is only perception."
Let's reverse the races and see how that sounds. White people assuming that they're being railroaded by blacks, even if that isn't the case, and this is a "problem" and we must address the "perception"--rather than simply acknowledge that they have no evidence whatsoever and are letting their own racism taint things.
What you say is technically correct--obviously if blacks are going to assume their race is at the heart of everything that is a problem--but the appropriate pushback is to challenge this race-based assumption rather than give it more credibility than it deserves. Racism by blacks is no more acceptable than racism by whites.
Anyone that is not scared to death of undisciplined or downright feral 12, 13 or 14 year old kids is living in a dream world. The Mexican cartels routinely use 12 to 14 year olds as executioners. Kids who have not been civilized by that age are absolute monsters.
WILLIAM GOLDING, YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD!!
The answer is simple. Let the blacks do whatever they want to whomever they want, as long as they do it only to each other and in their own sandbox. Then they will have none to blame but themselves, however blasé or model citizen they may be.
This was the way shown to us by the Zimmerman. I know many of you believe he was naught but a figure of the myths. And I confess, with good reason - for how can we believe in such imaginary creatures invented by the media such as the 'white hispanic'?
But I say unto you, Zimmerman was real. May his bright light guide us all through the darkness of the times.
It works. As another example, I give you the city of Chicago. Let them get on with it amongst themselves, and watch the virtue-signalers remain silent.
it may look that way to the kids and their parents and to others, and it's a problem even if it is only perception, and we don't even know whether it is only perception.
This is the same argument you made about your school the other day. I asked, and you did not explain, how someone's "perception" no matter how illogical, irrational or downright nonsensical can possibly be taken seriously in every circumstance. And, how it's not thoroughly racist to claim that people with X skin have a different standard than those with Y skin for having their concerns validated.
Live blasé-ly so others may blasé-ly live.
Althouse said: "There's no way to know in fact whether there was different treatment here, but it may look that way to the kids and their parents and to others, and it's a problem even if it is only perception, and we don't even know whether it is only perception."
Classic progressive posturing: The accusation is all that is needed. The narrative handles the rest by assigning guilt without need for facts, truth or insight.
Alexander - You seem to be advocating as form of Brockian Ultra Cricket. It's a harsh solution, but may be the only viable one.
http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Brockian_Ultra-Cricket
http://consport.wikia.com/wiki/Brockian_Ultra-Cricket
but it may look that way to the kids and their parents and to others, and it's a problem even if it is only perception,
Sometimes the best thing you can do for someone is to let them know their perception is wrong.
Holdfast,
That dovetails nicely into the library thread. In books, we find solutions!
I once was waiting in my car, at an attended hand carwash, for the lead carwash man to wave me over so he could take my car through the wash. The carwash had two entrances, and when I had been waiting for a while, another car pulled in the other entrance. The lead man then waved me over, and as I was telling him which package I wanted, the driver of the car that had come in long after I had came over and started complaining.
"I am tired of this happening" she said. "You ignored me because I am black and you let this other woman in because she is white and I am just sick of it!"
The poor man didn't know what to say (also, his English was not great). She was going on and on.
So I told her, no, I had been waiting a long time but she couldn't see me around the gas pumps. He was right to wave me over because I had been there much longer than she.
She said ok this time, but she was just sick of it, and it happens to her all the time because she is black.
So I told her perhaps, just as she was wrong in judging this issue, she is too quick to assume things are happening because of her race when in reality she is wrong.
She was a little taken aback, and she said maybe, but I'm sure to this day she does not have fond memories of me.
But it seemed at the time like a good thing to point out to her.
This is good. It will force the parents to take responsibility.
I'm also reading about Mizzou, and how the BLM protests there have hurt the school. Perhaps someone could have just told the hunger striking student he was wrong.
Wouldn't that have been better for everyone?
My older brother and his friends used to fight us younger ones in a backyard ring like pit bulls, but it was honorable with rules, and one on one, but if this was my kids doing the attack, I'd thank the cops for humiliating them, and ask that they keep them in jail overnight, because I want it clear that what they did is not OK by me or the society we share. Boys fight, as do men, but what makes it either right or wrong is in the reason why. Bullying and ganging up on the weak for entertainment should never be treated lightly by a parent.
@MayBee
You point out one of the many reasons I avoid Blacks as much as possible.
The problem is that we have de-legitimatized every other form of discipline in the schools and made it very difficult for teachers and administrators to keep order without bringing parents, community groups, the twitter hordes, etc., down on their heads. Especially with respect to minority students. Now, instead of facing all that, it is just much easier to throw up your hands and call the cops. Let them take the heat.
I also don't think we need to be life-ruining when it comes to things like bullying. The police don't need to get involved in kids arguments.
Alexander said...
“We don’t drink, don’t do drugs. We have lived and tried to live as blasé as possible, never trying to do more than we need to do, and we raise our kids to be model citizens so they don’t get in trouble."
My brain cannot process this into a meaningful phrase: it's like "how much does yellow weigh?" The words are real words, the syntax is correct... but they do not for a real thought.
You live as blasé as possible, never trying to do more than we need to do ... and yet also "raise our kids to be model citizens".
Nope, still doesn't compute.
4/26/16, 7:51 AM"
Someone with an IQ of 80 trying to come across as someone with an IQ of 115. Forrest Gump was a movie.
"it's a problem even if it is only perception, and we don't even know whether it is only perception."
And if the perception is wrong?
Any possibility that blacks live in a world of imaginary trauma?
Jesse Jackson goes to Peoria Illinois to protest the fact that more black kids get suspended and expelled than white kids.
Want to guess what Peoria schools are like now ?
It's a little hard to generate sympathy. I'm even ok with the perp walk. These kids will suffer virtually no real punishment for what they did, but maybe the public shaming will make them think twice next time.
I think everyone--the kids, the parents, the police--behaved badly. But you know who the hammer is going to fall on.
Michael K
Jesse Jackson goes to Peoria Illinois to protest the fact that more black kids get suspended and expelled than white kids. Want to guess what Peoria schools are like now ?
I don't know about Peoria, but an attempt in St. Paul to reduce student suspensions has not turned out well.St. Paul school disciplinary problems increase as it falls elsewhere.
When a 16-year-old Central High School student injured a teacher in a cafeteria brawl last month, the disturbing rise of violence in St. Paul Public Schools was thrust back into the spotlight...
In 2012, the district scaled back the types of offenses punishable by suspension as part of efforts to improve racial equity and close student achievement gaps. When the work began, St. Paul was suspending African-Americans far more often than their white and Asian-American classmates.
So instead of kicking students out of school, teachers, administrators and staff worked to better understand and address the underlying causes of their misbehavior.
As a result, suspensions fell by 25 percent from 2012 to 2015. But the racial disparities in student discipline barely budged.
During that time, the number of overall disciplinary cases rose sharply — to 6,269 in 2014-15 from 4,418 in 2012-13, state records show.
Very few people who have been either teachers or substitute teachers believe that higher rates of discipline or suspension of black students is the result of racism. It is misbehavior that results in higher rates of suspension or discipline.
The police don't need to get involved in kids arguments.
This should be said a million times. These kids were -- at most -- 12, but fully capable, I'm sure, of recognizing the ridiculous bullying over-reaction. How does this prompt these kids to respect what police do in real life?
I realize I don't know the whole story here. Maybe the police were finally called in after years of bullying by this group by parents who were at their wits' end. It's also, possible, that one parent called the police, and the police didn't have the common sense to realize this was just kids being kids -- in the Lord of the Flies way.
There are many ways to deal with bullies. You can run away. You can ignore. You can disarm them with verbal banter. You can fight back. Teaching kids that step #1 is to call in the authorities isn't a good use of tax money.
"It is misbehavior that results in higher rates of suspension or discipline."
The left is constantly commenting on "the paradox" that crime fell while more black men were in prison.
Segregation looks more appealing every year.
cubanbob said... [hush][hide comment]
Alexander said...
“We don’t drink, don’t do drugs. We have lived and tried to live as blasé as possible, never trying to do more than we need to do, and we raise our kids to be model citizens so they don’t get in trouble."
My brain cannot process this into a meaningful phrase: it's like "how much does yellow weigh?" The words are real words, the syntax is correct... but they do not for a real thought.
You live as blasé as possible, never trying to do more than we need to do ... and yet also "raise our kids to be model citizens".
Nope, still doesn't compute.
4/26/16, 7:51 AM"
Someone with an IQ of 80 trying to come across as someone with an IQ of 115. Forrest Gump was a movie.
Yeah, you guys making fun of this dad are assholes. Obviously, the guy tries to do the right think raising his kids. Of course, you genius's have perfect kids who have never been in trouble, gotten drunk, smoked dope, or picked on any other kid.
I guess you are in the "my kid would never", and "if it was me, I would have, blah blah blah"
"you genius's have perfect kids who have never been in trouble, gotten drunk, smoked dope, or picked on any other kid. "
Hmmmm.
Do you then consider gang bullying a "normal child behavior" ?
I think the bigger kid should have punched a couple of the bullying kids but may be he knows something we don't. Like the presence of knives, for example?
Spencer Stone did't know about the knife when he defended a woman getting beaten up
Maybe the white kid knows more than we do.
"Bullying" is one of those broad categories that don't really help much unless we get specifics. A bunch of kids making fun of someone? Maybe knocking their books out of their hands, or sticking a post-it on their back? Yes, normal school discipline is appropriate there, detentions and upwards depending on the frequency.
But a lot of times it escalates and gets to the point where a gang of kids are beating on their victim, destroying their property, forcing the kid to live in terror. Arrest the hell out of those thugs. Oh, your kid is a nice boy who'd never do such a thing? Parents who think their kids are nice raise a bunch of Hitlers (it's true--Hitler's mom thought the world of the little bastard). Maybe punishing the parent will help too.
The left has tried to criminalize bullying of the transgendered or gays. So, now blacks are being hauled away for actual bullying. and suddenly its racist.
Look, there may be a case to bring if the bullying involved things like assault. But if someone just says mean things to someone else, and its wrong to haul black people to jail for non crimes, then it would similarly be wrong to haul away white cis gendered men just for saying that trans women are not actually women.As an example.
(cont) in this case if the bullying involves assault then charges might be warranted.
So the head of the ACLU says "hauled away...for a charge that does not even exist..."
I supposed - apaprently in error -that the ACLU head would be an attorney and familiar with Tennessee code, and would further be able to look it up if she wasn't sure. In fact, the charge is on the books and does appear to fit the facts. Further, just about every state has a non-criminal infraction for juveniles, some catch-all like "Child in need of supervision" which allows the authorities to bring in children for, essentially, being fools in a manner that is dangerous or disruptive but for conduct not necessarily a criminal violation for an adult. So the ACLU mouthpiece spouting off is, right off the bat, completely erroneous about the law and the factual basis for the kids being picked up. Anything else she has to say would be equally suspect in my mind.
This is just more of that ethnic victimology that seems to be so rampant today. I assume the kid getting bullied was also black, but that doesn't seem to bother the ACLU. His rights are secondary and unimportant, because his rights are being violated by other minority group members, not by the power structure.
It's kind of like those very low school zone speed limits. Ever notice that the worst violators speeding through them seem to be the mothers dropping their kids. It's their kids and their school, so they can go ahead and speed, like they have some special license.
"...its a problem even if it is only perception." And, I suppose, this is true even if the perception is false. But whose problem is it? The innocent party or those who encourage the belief that the false perception is true?
Fullmoon,
I wasn't making fun, I was making a straightforward statement that I could not parse wtf the guy was trying to say. That I was reading and rereading the statement and literally could not conclude what was going on.
So take your sanctimonious 'I know what your motivation was' and shove it up your asshole.
That being said, I wouldn't bet against it being a case of a dindu nuffin where the description by the family and the objective reality of the situation cannot reasonably be said to coincide.
Teaching in a black school.
From the belly of the beast.
Alexander said...
Fullmoon,
I wasn't making fun, I was making a straightforward statement that I could not parse wtf the guy was trying to say. That I was reading and rereading the statement and literally could not conclude what was going on.
So take your sanctimonious 'I know what your motivation was' and shove it up your asshole.
That being said, I wouldn't bet against it being a case of a dindu nuffin where the description by the family and the objective reality of the situation cannot reasonably be said to coincide.
Good one Alex ! Anybody who cannot understand -excuse me- "parse"- that the dad was attempting to say he does the best he can to be a decent human being and raise his kid the best he can is just plain stupid. You are not as smart as mommy and grandma always told you, Allie, you jus a dum fuk can diagram a sentence.
And , I know not the meaning of sanctimonious, but if it's good, I am it.
I Think, I'm not sure, but I think that 'blase' father's children are being charged with "doing nothing about the bullying", not with being bullies. The story isn't clear as written and the video only shows that some indistinct kids are hitting another kid. But perhaps the father (who IS there in the home for his kids) is trying to say "I tell them not to get involved" in the disputes at school, to "be cool", and "now they have been arrested and handcuffed for not getting involved."
I'm not sure "not getting involved" is a crime, even a juvenile crime. I mean isn't "getting involved" in some situations in bad areas the same as joining a gang? Aren't good kids going around, head down, avoiding eye contact, just trying to get past dangerous days in schools that have abdicated?
Yeah, "parse" - I was being a real dick, using that one syllable, five letter word. Really putting on airs and graces with that one, wasn't I?
Alexander said...
Yeah, "parse" - I was being a real dick, using that one syllable, five letter word. Really putting on airs and graces with that one, wasn't I?
Nice try at diversion. You're claim of "being a real dick" may be appropriate. However, my comment was in regards to your apparent dismissal of dad's comment as being somehow incomprehensible, when, as I noted, his meaning is obvious to any person with an iota of common sense. Therefore, one might presume you were indeed " being a real dick" in feigning inability to decipher dad's statement. , I will reserve comment on your dindu nuffin
It wasn't clear to me. I was making a straight-up comment. To make any assumption whatsoever as to what point he's trying to make, I have to infer a meaning out of half of it while ignoring the other half entirely. It is not clear.
I was not mocking the guy, but pointing out I had no idea what he was saying.
Either it wasn't clear to many people, in which case you are wrong.
Or it was clear to everyone but me, in which case I'm an idiot.
And you're the guy who goes around picking on idiots.
/golfclap.
Blogger Alexander said...
It wasn't clear to me. I was making a straight-up comment. To make any assumption whatsoever as to what point he's trying to make, I have to infer a meaning out of half of it while ignoring the other half entirely. It is not clear.
I was not mocking the guy, but pointing out I had no idea what he was saying.
Either it wasn't clear to many people, in which case you are wrong.
Or it was clear to everyone but me, in which case I'm an idiot.
And you're the guy who goes around picking on idiots.
/golfclap.
Apology accepted. I wasn't intentionally denigrating your idiocy.
Unable to parse "golf clap". Is it clever?
FullMoon said...
"Yeah, you guys making fun of this dad are assholes. Obviously, the guy tries to do the right think raising his kids."
You may have missed that I was also ridiculing of the man, but he deserves it. That may have gone over your head.
He's NOT obviously trying to do the right thing vis-a-vis his progeny; he's clearly trying to excuse the little thug's delinquent behavior with a nonsensical explanation. HE is an asshole, and so are you, seemingly.
har Char Binks said...
FullMoon said...
"Yeah, you guys making fun of this dad are assholes. Obviously, the guy tries to do the right think raising his kids."
You may have missed that I was also ridiculing of the man, but he deserves it. That may have gone over your head.
He's NOT obviously trying to do the right thing vis-a-vis his progeny; he's clearly trying to excuse the little thug's delinquent behavior with a nonsensical explanation. HE is an asshole, and so are you, seemingly.
Contradicting assholes does not make me one, seemingly. I read the dad's statement again. Do you drink, do drugs live and not try to raise your kids to be model citizens?
“We don’t drink, don’t do drugs. We have lived and tried to live as blasé as possible, never trying to do more than we need to do, and we raise our kids to be model citizens so they don’t get in trouble.
The credibility of American Class Liberties Union suffers from diversity disparity, as do many and most businesses in the political civil rights industry.
MadisonMan said;
"He a good boy! He dindu nuffin!"
I think the racial concern here is that the authorities are judging the kids subjectively in a different way because of their race and different treatment is deemed appropriate because of race. There's no way to know in fact whether there was different treatment here, but it may look that way to the kids and their parents and to others, and it's a problem even if it is only perception, and we don't even know whether it is only perception.
Maybe because black kids are more likely to be thugs? They will always perceive it that way because it serves their purposes. Needless to say the Non-American Non-Civil Liberties Union wouldn't have bothered if the races were reversed even if it was without a doubt that the kids weren't bullying. The leftwing Jews that control the ACLU have their ideological agenda to promote.
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